Returning Student

S1 EP07 | While on campus, David contemplates complications in his relationship with his partner. He also visits the Columbia College Student Center before celebrating his cousin's birthday out in public for the first time after the COVID restrictions have lifted in Chicago. 
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WRITTEN, DIRECTED, AND PRODUCED BY DAVID GEISLER | EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: DAVID GEISLER
Chapters:
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Returning Student has no official connection with Columbia College Chicago or its employees. All depictions of the school and its staff are strictly from my point of view.

Creators & Guests

Host
David Geisler
AS
Guest
Alex Sheehan

What is Returning Student?

A podcast about a 40-year-old who returns to the very same school that he left 20 years ago so that he may finish the college degree that he never got. | Sixfive Media

David Geisler:

So something has been happening, and I'm not totally sure how to talk about it. You know, Macy's been at her new job now for a while, Couple months. More than a couple months. And I think it's really stressing her out. You know, I just really I was kinda focusing on my midterms, and I wanted to get through all of that.

David Geisler:

But I don't know. There's been there have been these, like, incidents happening for the past couple months. I just didn't I I'm kind of I think I'm starting to really kind of put it all together and connect it. Every couple weeks, It seems like Macy and I, get into, like, this big fight. I don't even know if I call them fights because I don't know if I'm fighting for anything.

David Geisler:

But, usually, what'll happen is Macy will have a a big long day at work. Tons of, you know, literal back to back meetings. I make lunch for her so that she can keep eating, and she's at her desk from start to finish. And then, you know, then I go to I leave for class, and I come back and all of that. Like, for example, yesterday, I'd come home from class.

David Geisler:

She and I had been in the office together in the morning, and she was still in her meetings. So I was hanging out in the living room. And I guess she kinda finished her workday. You know, I mean, she talks about some of her coworkers, giving her a lot of stress. I guess there's, like, a manager that's giving her a hard time or something.

David Geisler:

Well, anyway, she she came into the living room and was it was like it was like just a simple thing at first. It was it was, what do you what would you like to get for dinner tonight? And she was in the mood to order out. So whenever she gets stressed, she likes to order out. Maybe it's like a comfort thing.

David Geisler:

And, or maybe it's the idea that you're not cooking food even though I'm happy to cook too. And she came into the living room and said, what would you like to have tonight? You know, tacos or chicken sandwiches or something? There's like a chicken there's a spicy chicken place down the down the street that we like. And I didn't really have any preference at all.

David Geisler:

I mean, I I was ready to cook something or whatever. And so I said, oh, well, either. And, also, I'm trying to, like, serve her because I could tell she was a little stressed as she came in. I said, well, I I could go with tacos or chicken. And, I guess the quick version here is that she was kinda like, no no pick 1.

David Geisler:

You need to pick 1. And I said, sure. Well, if if there's one that you're in the mood for, otherwise, I could you know, we could go with tacos. Anyways, I don't know. It's weird to, like, it's weird to talk about this.

David Geisler:

But so what happened then is that she elevated up into, like, basically, like, yelling at me saying, you need to pick 1? And then and then it ex expands into other things. It expands into things that have happened with us in the past. It expands into things that she doesn't like that my family says. It expands into things that she doesn't like that my friends say.

David Geisler:

And, you know, I kind of re I had a little moment last night where I realized I was like, well, wait a wait a second. I I really, you know I mean, maybe I could have picked chicken or tacos immediately. I mean, I I definitely picked tacos within the second ask, but I really realized that I was starting to recognize a pattern. I was like, wait a sec. There's an escalation here.

David Geisler:

And it's been happening pretty much since she started her job. Some nights are better than others, but it'll ramp it'll ramp up into full effect. I guess maybe it's because she works from home, and there isn't, like, that drive home or the commute where you can, like, detox your stress from the day or something. I know she's feeling a lot of stress from her job, and the thing is that every time this happens and and some have been better than worse. Some have included things getting thrown.

David Geisler:

Some of these escalations have included, you know, pounding tables and flipping things and stuff. And I don't really wanna live like that. And then and then there'll be 5, 6 days where she's just a dream. She's the person that I'm in love with. Howdy.

David Geisler:

I'm David, and you're listening to Returning Student. This is a documentary podcast that I'm producing about my return to school and the story that surrounds it. If this is your first episode, I I honestly think I recommend that you go back a couple, maybe even to the beginning. You see, I'm almost done with my 1st semester and a lot has happened. In some of the previous episodes, I recorded myself going to the 1st day of school.

David Geisler:

I've interviewed a couple of my professors. I've had conversations with these people to try to wrap my head around what higher education even means these days, Why sometimes it feels less important and then sometimes it feels like it's the most important thing in the world. But if you'd like to keep listening to this episode, you're more than welcome, of course. I'm currently tucked away into a little study room on the 5th floor of the communications building. I have some time between classes and I plan to go to the student center to study there.

David Geisler:

But I just I just needed to tuck into one of these little study rooms here in this building and record my thoughts about whatever's going on with Macy and I. You know, this is something that, at home, I don't really get to verbalize. So sitting in this little study room and being able to just kind of talk about it is, well, it's helpful. Relationships are complicated. Going back to school's complicated.

David Geisler:

Starting a new job is complicated. That first year with Macy and I was absolutely perfect, but I don't know. Something does something's different. Well, I mean, I guess a lot of things are different. A little bit later in the episode, I'm gonna meet up with my cousin, Alex, and talk to him a little bit about education and making humongous life changes and choices.

David Geisler:

He's had his fair share of ups and downs and pivots as well. But for now, I record into my phone for another couple minutes and I choose to transition from the communications building over to the student center. As I've said in the past, I haven't spent much time there yet. And even though there's plenty of nice study spaces here in the communications building, I I kinda wanna know what it's like to insert myself into the community of the larger part of the school. Previously on Returning Student, I was programming a Jurassic Park role playing game in QBasic.

David Geisler:

Well, I

Marvin Modder:

would try to see kids like they are now 20 years down the line or 30 years down the line. Where where where are they going? What are they gonna be able to do it?

David Geisler:

And so I specifically picked a seat that was second to the last row in the computer lab.

Marvin Modder:

I I try to treat you in a manner that would be befitting, you know, the the the person that that that you're in the process of becoming. I I mean, it's like a privilege.

David Geisler:

You know, there there's a few figures in my life that have been responsible for forks in my road, but, I I think mister Mater literally changed my life that day. Alright. Let's get to the student center. The student center is about 5 blocks south of the communications building. A lot of students like to hang out at the Dunkin' Donuts that's between these two buildings.

David Geisler:

Along the way, I pass some of the other Columbia buildings, a couple empty lots and a a couple restaurants. After another block, I see the huge 5 story glass building that is the student center framed by the orange line passing by behind it. It's an impressive building and it definitely makes a statement. I walk up to the large rotating doors and I step inside. It's an impressive building, very stylish.

David Geisler:

It's 5 stories tall, every floor looks and feels a little different. But through a series of atriums and balconies, each floor also feels connected to each other. So far, besides my first class ever being taken in the 1st floor of the student center, I haven't actually spent much time in the building. You know, Columbia occupies a bunch of buildings downtown but, apparently, this is the first that they've actually built specifically for the school since the school's founding in 18/90. You know, 20 years ago, we didn't have a cafeteria.

David Geisler:

We really didn't have a place to hang out. There was kind of a little side cafe in the main six hundred building. But, honestly, one of the things I specifically recall from the last time I went to Columbia was that there really wasn't a central hub. There wasn't a place where I could go and really feel like I was, I don't know, in the school. And it's complicated because one of my favorite things about the Columbia campus is that it is just a bunch buildings peppered in downtown Chicago and to walk from one class to another, you're literally walking among other people going about their day in the South Loop.

David Geisler:

I have to say it it's it's it's cool. It's nice to have a place where you can go to at times like this when I'm between classes and I I assume I just wanna get a snack or some food. I heard there's a gym up on the 4th floor. I'm gonna have to investigate a little bit. Okay.

David Geisler:

Let's focus. Where do I sit? You know, for most of the semester I haven't felt, old. And the last time I was in this building I was in a bit of a panic state and I really just kinda entered on the 1st floor and I didn't go very far. Now, you know, there's other students all over the place, they're hanging out at different tables, different seating areas.

David Geisler:

I do feel like I'm sticking out like a sore thumb a little bit. I'm pretty sure that's all in my head, but let's see. I start walking into the space. I look to the right and there are some round cafe tables up against the windows that face the city. You know, just past that there's some abstract plush shapes that function probably as different kinds of couches and sitting arrangements and to my left, I see what I would call the cafeteria even though it's open concept and there's nothing separating this space to the main atrium.

David Geisler:

There's about 7 or 8 very long, maybe, maybe, 40 foot long birch tables all in a row with benches and chairs. That feels like the safest spot for now. Maybe I can kind of blend in. Okay. I can see a couple benches at one of the tables about halfway back that has a little bit of space.

David Geisler:

I think I'll sit down and get set up. There's dark, almost black stained birch walls on one side of the cafeteria, and then we have the super long tables that feel like they're plucked straight out of an Apple store, and 2 open archways or really rectangles that obviously go to the area where you can step up and order different kinds of food. I don't know. What do you call that? Is that is that the cafeteria?

David Geisler:

It's all very sleek, very minimal, but due to some creative lighting and the layout it also feels very it does not feel sterile. It feels, to me, very alive. And, as I look up, I can see that there's some kind of, like, maybe creative workshop or something like that up on the second floor. It's the it's the kind of building you'd want to show off to your friends and family. In fact, the building actually won an American Architecture Award for schools and universities back in 2020.

David Geisler:

It even ranked number 1 on the website interior design for impressive spaces in education. Okay, I got the computer all set up. I've got a little bit of time here, and I've already moved the files from my phone over to my Google Drive, so I decided to pull up my recording from the study room earlier this morning and listen to the rest of what I recorded. And then and then there'll be 5, 6 days where she's just a dream. She's the person that I'm in love with.

David Geisler:

So maybe it's like a stress building up and popping or something. I don't know. But I do know that every time one of these things happens, it is it's very difficult. It takes it takes a little bit of love out of me. You know what I mean?

David Geisler:

Like like, if, I don't know. This is dumb to put it into numbers, but if, like because I mean, it's hours then. It's hours of, like, navigating this almost into going to bed. And at a certain point, you start what I what I really recognized the other night was that I was starting to just kinda take it and starting to just let her go through her hour or or 2 or 3 of I mean, I'm you know, honestly, it feels like a tantrum. It feels like this kind of, like, ex explosion of energy is like a tantrum or something.

David Geisler:

And I realized the other night that I was just letting it happen. And I was just kinda thinking, okay. Well, when we get another hour of this, can I survive it? But it's also a couple hours of active focus giving because if I if I'm not giving her my attention, well, then I'm not being a good partner. And, you know, it is one of those things where anything and everything that's happened in the last year, year and a half gets brought back up even though we've resolved.

David Geisler:

There's another thing I noticed last night, like, you know, certain things about, like, oh, well, your your family member said this or your family member said that, and it was, like, 9 months ago, and we've already had 3 conversations about it. It's telling me that she's not, I guess, processing that, or is she holding it for ammunition? I don't understand what's going on. But I do know that it takes a couple days every time this happens for me to kinda heal back up. Maybe maybe a week, honestly.

David Geisler:

And it's been happening a little more recently, so it's it's been a little harder for me to recover. And, you know, there were times there were a couple times when I came home from Target in those early ETL days when we were right in the middle of the pandemic and stuff, and I'd come home with a bad attitude. And so maybe it's something like that. I don't know. I just I'm not really sure how to go forward with this.

David Geisler:

I'm not really sure if this is part of the show or not. I mean, I mean, I definitely don't want this, and I definitely don't want her to be feeling these things. Maybe we can get some counseling, or I can help her be less stressed from work. But if this is what a job like this does to someone, I don't want her in that. I mean, are we trapped in it?

David Geisler:

Because I'm going to school now. Like, if she I'm realizing if she maybe she's feeling if she gets fired or something, then we're, like, really because I left my job, then we're really in trouble, and I could see that giving her stress. I don't know. But right now, as in right now, I mean, like, the last month or so, I've been healing slower, and so that's why I'm choosing to talk about it right now. We have some fun stuff coming up.

David Geisler:

You know, she's about to next week, she has a, like, a yoga audition. She used to teach yoga, and there was a place that she found where they're maybe hiring another person. So she I really you know, I don't know if it's a matter of just, like, getting out of the house, getting away from work. It's a little hard for me to know because, certainly, she's a different person than me. But then, also, I am leaving the apartment 3 times a week, 4 times a week.

David Geisler:

I mean, we're still I haven't really talked about it much. I mean, we're still, you know, wearing masks in class, and it's still very COVID y out there. But you can feel it lifting. People are finally starting to go out again and do some things. We have my my cousin's birthday.

David Geisler:

He's in a couple weeks, and it's gonna be, by reservation at this, at this bar, a karaoke place. And I guess the way the the karaoke place is doing it is you have to set a reservation for a time, and they're only allowing, you know, what, 10 people to go in and partake at a time. And and we're part of that time, and I can't wait to hang out with him. And and, hopefully, this can kinda give us a little breathing room or give a little bit of a normal life. So, here we are at karaoke, my cousin's birthday party, and it's a good time.

David Geisler:

The 10 person rule might be getting stretched a little bit. There's actually 3 groups of 10, but each of the 3 groups are certainly separated by about, I don't know, 6 to 10 feet. There's a group in the front, the middle, and the back. When we first arrived, everyone kinda gave each other a side eye a little bit, kinda checking with each other and, like, are we okay with this? Masks, aren't mandatory inside public spaces anymore, and so we embrace it.

David Geisler:

My cousin definitely embraces it by working the crowd and singing an Elton John song. I mean, it is good times, and it does seem like everybody's, I don't know, kinda trying to figure out what this new post COVID world even is. You can kinda tell people are looking left and right, trying to maybe keep their distance. Certainly, no one is sneezing. Everyone's kinda keeping track of their glass, but we're also kinda you can kinda see it in everybody's eyes.

David Geisler:

You can is is it like, is it are we okay? Are we all gonna get sick after this? Or are we not? Or where are we in the world right now? Nevertheless, I'm grateful to be out.

David Geisler:

I'm grateful to be at this birthday party. My cousin's wife, Sasha, put the whole thing together. She's here. She's having a great time. She's singing with Macy.

David Geisler:

Macy's singing with Alex. I don't know. You can you can kind of feel people just trying to get back to normal things. You know? A few weeks later, Alex comes to my home office.

David Geisler:

I set up some microphones, and we begin to chat. But I actually wanna ask you first. I don't think we've ever actually talked about this. Were you a good student in school?

Alex Sheehan:

Well, you'll have to be more specific. At times, yes. At times, no.

David Geisler:

Uh-huh.

Alex Sheehan:

I actually, my mom, much to Sasha's chagrin, dropped off this huge box of memorabilia junk at our house the other day and in it are grades and reports Oh my gosh. And stuff like this from elementary school. Oh, wow. And I it wasn't great. It wasn't terrible.

David Geisler:

You mean like even there's some report cards in there and all that?

Alex Sheehan:

Report cards, you got yeah. I the Iowa test results. Wow. Me tell you something about 98th percentile in language arts. What?

Alex Sheehan:

Let me tell you something about 95th percentile in reading comprehension. Wow.

David Geisler:

Let me tell

Alex Sheehan:

you something about sixtieth percentile in mathematics.

David Geisler:

Wow. Which Which is hysterical.

Alex Sheehan:

I know. Well, I I went on to that being kind of my jam. Right. Middle school, high school, I think I just did enough to get by. I was more interested in the extracurriculars, jazz band, theater, whatever else.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

So you kinda you're saying you just kinda hung out in Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

High school? Yeah. Middle school, high school, I kinda just kinda did the bare minimum to get by. I was more interested in the the stuff, the extracurriculars, the sports, big old sports guy. You were?

Alex Sheehan:

The sports bozo, no I I played on the inaugural lacrosse team and we didn't win a single game, the the 2 seasons that I played in, junior and senior year of high school. Yeah. And then I, I go to college in Milwaukee for music.

David Geisler:

Yes. That's right.

Alex Sheehan:

Did well enough there, because really my job was to wake up, get over my hangover, and then get to the practice room all day.

David Geisler:

That's it.

Alex Sheehan:

Left junior year to go plan cruise ships.

David Geisler:

Yes.

Alex Sheehan:

Did that thing for a while. No studying there. Actually, studying there. I was, so what I would do is I'd buy these little internet cards, and this was, I don't know, 2,008, 2,009? Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

So there wasn't great internet availability in the middle of the Atlantic on these cruise ships.

David Geisler:

And by Internet card, is it like it's like a minutes card?

Alex Sheehan:

It's a

David Geisler:

seconds card. Yeah. Yeah. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

And I get on and I download as much documentation for HTML and CSS and JavaScript as I could, and then I go offline and I read it all and I try to build little JavaScript apps with it, And, eventually, I kinda, like, hit a wall, and it had it had been a few years on the ships at this point, and I kinda wanted to move back to land because while it is a fun experience, it's a pretty grueling lifestyle. You're below deck, not seeing the sunlight for a day

David Geisler:

at a time. And so the crew, areas are, like they're kinda just like little little tanks, aren't they? Like, it's a bunk bed.

Alex Sheehan:

Everywhere. The oh, the the cabin themselves. Oh, man. I had a a couple of doozy roommates too that just just horrible behavior around other humans.

David Geisler:

Oh, no. What was that?

Alex Sheehan:

3 years on the ships? Roundabout. There's, like, 3 months on and then a month off and then you you might take another couple months off before you go on to your next one.

David Geisler:

I see. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

But, yeah, here and there for about 3 years.

David Geisler:

I was I'm so happy you're telling me this. It kinda came out naturally because my next question was gonna be, like, when did you start coding? And I guess it kinda was on the ship.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Yeah. So I ended up hitting a wall with what I could learn, not having access to the Internet or any books on it. Sure.

David Geisler:

So I

Alex Sheehan:

was like, well, alright. I wanna move back to land. The favorite city I've been to so far has been New York, so I'm gonna move there. Move to New York, go back to school. I actually got a job at the Apple Store doing, the not the Genius Bar, but, like, the thing in between where you just do repairs on iOS devices and other computers and things like that.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Yeah. And while I was doing that, I went back to school for computer science.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

I was a machine. I was on the dean's list all the time. I was, I graduated cum laude. It was an engineering degree, so I don't know how you pronounce these Latin words. But, yeah, I really fell into it.

Alex Sheehan:

I think it might have been the types of mathematics as well. Yeah. In high school, you're really just kinda learning, like, trig, geometry, maybe some pre calc or AP calc if you're in that, which I was not. Yeah. But then, you know, you get into calculus, you get into linear algebra, you get into, all these more math that's less rote memorization and more problem solving.

David Geisler:

Right.

Alex Sheehan:

And that's what really spoke to me. So I

David Geisler:

did

Alex Sheehan:

that, did well, and hope to never be a student again.

David Geisler:

Right.

Alex Sheehan:

It was enough.

David Geisler:

And that was while you were in New York there,

Alex Sheehan:

That was while I was in

David Geisler:

New York.

Alex Sheehan:

Going

David Geisler:

to the working at the Apple Store. At the

Alex Sheehan:

Apple Store.

David Geisler:

So I would walk.

Alex Sheehan:

I would I would do okay. So my commute when I lived in New York when I first moved to New York Yeah. I lived in a neighborhood called Bed Stuy in Brooklyn. Okay. And if you're familiar, it's kinda like northwest ish, but still into Brooklyn.

Alex Sheehan:

And the Apple Store I worked at was on 5th Avenue and Central Park South. So my commute would be, like, a 15, 20 minute walk to a train, take the train into Manhattan, take another train up

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

And after about 50 minutes, get to the Apple Store.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

I would do my shift and then I'd walk across Central Park to where my campus was, Central Park South on the west side. I would do that. I mean,

David Geisler:

that's nice. That's kinda charming.

Alex Sheehan:

It's it's oh, it's charming until you stop for a nice pretzel and shit on by a pigeon, and you're looking for some sort of sympathy from the guy in the carton. He's just he's seen this a 1000 times. He didn't care. I took too many napkins from him to clean myself up. He was mad about that.

David Geisler:

This is a true story you're telling right now. It's a

Alex Sheehan:

very true story.

David Geisler:

Oh my goodness.

Alex Sheehan:

This is awful. Put me put me off the pretzel entirely. I I didn't I didn't even finish it.

David Geisler:

Wait. So, yeah. What what age are you around this time? Is this like mid twenties, late twenties?

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Early twenties is when I got there. I'd say probably around 23, 24, something like that.

David Geisler:

So also, if I may, it's not exactly a returning student scenario, but it is school a little bit later. And is it because the the internal the the intermission or whatever was the ship experience in some ways?

Alex Sheehan:

I think so. It was my Rumspringa from school. It was doing the cruise ships. In a way, it is kind of returning student

David Geisler:

even though

Alex Sheehan:

it's a completely different degree program and a different school. Yeah. I was still very much returning to school and I actually, in a lot of ways, just starting over completely. None of my credits really transferred. It's like 1 or 2 classes did, but none of the things that I was doing in music school had any application in computer science or computer engineering or anything.

Alex Sheehan:

And so I'm doing all this work and I'm working all these hours and I get to the sort of tail end of my school career, shown air quotes, and I had 3 credits in either biology or chemistry I had to do as an elective. Okay. And I was like, I I don't have the energy anymore. I'm now, whatever, 25, 26, having lived in the the New York City lifestyle, going to Koreatown till 4 in the morning every night. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

I decided to gamble the entire amount of schooling that I did to get my and, again, I I this isn't a conversation about, like, whether degrees are useful or not.

David Geisler:

Alex, that is something that we have already been exploring in this show. It comes up organically often.

Alex Sheehan:

Okay. Great. I think I I don't ascribe

David Geisler:

I've had professors say they don't know if the degrees are important

Alex Sheehan:

or not. As a little bit of attention, I think some degrees are a good signal to people that you're going to work with later. Employers, even though I hate, like, the the dynamic there, I feel like a lot of things should just be kind of like flat management structures where I do what I do, you do what you do, if you do managing and organizing and I do engineering and art and whatever, great, it should all be flat. Either way Mhmm. Some degrees are like a good signal to those folks that you're gonna be able to do either what you commit to do or say you can do or whatever.

Alex Sheehan:

Make their jobs easier.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I have heard this a little bit. It's like sometimes it's just showing I've been something that's come up already. This is only the 7th episode of this show and I've already had more than one person say, like, sometimes you gotta jump through the hoops. Yeah.

David Geisler:

You know?

Alex Sheehan:

That said, if you are a high schooler or a very advanced middle schooler and you're considering going to school for computer science and you think it's gonna teach you how to code,

David Geisler:

don't do it.

Alex Sheehan:

Just learn how to code.

David Geisler:

Did you not finish school?

Alex Sheehan:

I didn't finish music school. I've got, I think, like, 9 credits left, but I can't imagine I'll ever go back and do that. I did finish my computer science degree.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

The point being, there's some degrees that I think you're gonna need, like, a doctor or a lawyer. They're, like, good indications that you're gonna be good at it or Yeah. Not know what you're doing. And some that, you know, I I'd almost say, like, half of the, quote, unquote, steam degrees are probably unnecessary

David Geisler:

entirely.

Alex Sheehan:

I don't attribute any of my success in programming to my degree. I had, an opportunity to network with a lot of smart people and a lot of professors, so that kind of paid off in a way. My first job was because one of my professors asked if anyone coded in our, computer architecture class, and even though I didn't really code yet, I raised my hand and he gave me a job and I learned how to actually write code and actually do the job Yeah. Because I kinda, like, faked it a little bit. Mhmm.

Alex Sheehan:

I'm glad I finished it in a way, but, I wouldn't be heartbroken if I hadn't.

David Geisler:

For me, obviously, the blocker, I I spent 20 years Yeah. Bouncing around, not needing that degree to some degree. But it wasn't, it wasn't until recently when I, it's really, do you know what really changed it for my industry is that, it's the freaking I'm I'm okay with this, but it's the indeed.coms. Yeah. It's the fact that now all resumes basically could scan by a computer, and that's fine.

David Geisler:

Right. You know, 10 years ago, 11 years ago when I I I literally walked into SC Johnson with a portfolio, I technically put the 3 years of Columbia on my resume, but they looked at the paper, set it down. They basically said, show us your work. Yeah. You know know what I mean?

David Geisler:

And then you kinda say, do you like it? And then and then you move forward. Now you can't even, get in the room until the resume is full. And so it has changed a little bit in that way, and I get it. I don't know.

Alex Sheehan:

I ran into this in my second school as well. It's it's a private college, and, effectively, like, a student can request any amount of loans, and they're gonna be granted because they're underwritten by the government. So, like, tax dollars will pay for it if you default. Right. And so schools know that, and, you know, they'll increase tuition, whatever, 2% every year Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

Because they can. There's no there's no there's nothing in the economy to, like, keep costs low.

David Geisler:

Yes. Which I think Columbia is 4 times more expensive now than it was when I went 20 years ago.

Alex Sheehan:

I don't doubt it. Mhmm. I don't doubt it. A lot of what I learned in school though came from a different institution called Cooper Union, which has an alternate mode of paying for students' tuition and that they don't charge the students anything. Wow.

Alex Sheehan:

There's there's some universities, some schools, you know, Harvard, Cooper Union, really, like, any Ivy League, any big ten school, any any huge university. The the interest off of the endowments alone likely could pay for the tuition for every student there.

David Geisler:

I see. They just don't do it,

Alex Sheehan:

except Cooper Union does. I I ended up being just being friends with a lot of students there. It's a an art and engineering school. The professor I mentioned who gave me that first job was also a professor at Cooper Union, and I I learned as much from those folks and just hanging out in their labs as I did from for the school I was paying for.

David Geisler:

And was this also in New York?

Alex Sheehan:

This is in New York. This is in, Astra like, at at Astra Place, a little in Manhattan Sure. Down there.

David Geisler:

Wow. Wow. I had no idea that that was also happening in your life at that time.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. It was you know, I've lived about 3 dang lives at this point.

David Geisler:

I feel the same sometimes. There's, like, there's, like, massive chapters where it's like, who that was even the same person.

Alex Sheehan:

I know. So all this is to say, at the end of all this effort and all this work, I kinda gambled my entire degree on this one class that I was missing. And I didn't wanna take it, and I was exhausted. And I was more interested in just, like, you know, I had a job. Again, just like the music school thing, I got a job before I graduated.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. And it was a great opportunity, so I did it. And, with with, like, the the job job, like, the 40 hour a week, and sometimes when you're doing software engineering, sometimes it's longer week, sometimes it's shorter week, whatever. I just didn't wanna do it. Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna wing it. I'm gonna try to test out of this class. So I'm like, alright. I'm gonna do biology.

Alex Sheehan:

How hard could it be? You got zygotes. You got cell. You got you got, the powerhouse of the cell. Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

You got all that all that schmutz. So I go in to some building that's not even on campus that's in a different part of town, and I sit down to take this, like, 4 hour biology test. And it's split up into all these different segments. There's, you know, like, plants and animal cells is one thing, and then there's organic chemistry is another one.

David Geisler:

And Right.

Alex Sheehan:

The organic chemistry almost took me down. I passed this by one point. What? Because I guessed on every question for the organic chemistry part.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

And I got half of them right. Yep. One fewer right would have failed.

David Geisler:

I

Alex Sheehan:

would have had to, like, take the class. I'd have to pay all this money for tuition or, like, retake the test in a year. Yeah. That's amazing. Skin in my teeth.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. I got it.

David Geisler:

Did you go in cold to the test or did you try to study up a little or

Alex Sheehan:

No. I picked biology because I thought I wouldn't have to study. I was like, how hard could this be? The biology students at school are dumb as rocks.

David Geisler:

And it was okay. And so that was you picked biology because you needed, like it was, like, one gen ed or whatever the version of that is you still needed?

Alex Sheehan:

Yep. Yep. Wow. Still haven't used it. It might come up someday.

David Geisler:

What? The biology knowledge?

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. But the and this

David Geisler:

gave you your, pardon me, coding degree?

Alex Sheehan:

Computer science. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Computer science.

Alex Sheehan:

Thank you. Yeah. Bachelor's. So, yes, I was a good student in college except for that, lapse in judgment. That was and then that was

David Geisler:

it. I think this would be a good time to take a break. When we return, I'll talk to Alex about his time working for Google, how he got into writing code, and how he and Sasha got engaged. He and Sasha have lived in Chicago for about a year or 2 now, and he has quite the story on, how the 2 of them made the move. Alright, we'll get into all of that when returning student returns.

David Geisler:

Welcome back. My cousin, Alex, and I are sitting in my home office. I'll be honest, I'm learning some things about him. We've been pretty close our whole lives, but when you do spend a number of years not living in the same city, I guess there's things that happen that you just don't really know about each other. So I'm definitely enjoying this time with him.

David Geisler:

You know, I didn't really mention this to him in the earlier part of the interview but I did get a chance to go visit him in New York many years ago. And it was around the time that he was working at that Apple store. So I asked him how he transitioned out of that job.

Alex Sheehan:

I quit to start a startup. Oh, yeah. Quit quit the, quit the job, started a startup. It was fun, it failed, it still, like, technically exists.

David Geisler:

Technically, yeah. Yeah. Is Still, like, taxes happen each year? It doesn't matter, whatever.

Alex Sheehan:

It does. Shockingly not. We don't have to pay a lot of taxes. Our hosting costs are, like, $1,000 a year because no one uses it.

David Geisler:

I see. Is that what led to Google then?

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. So I was doing the start up. It was pretty clear after about a year that, it was a race to the bottom between my bank account and the startup.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

So I had, I had met this guy at my first job at HuffPost, and he and I did a few podcasts together, actually, like the official HuffPost

David Geisler:

I remember you doing this.

Alex Sheehan:

Tech podcast. Yeah. And we ended up what did we do? We we had sort of a a variety show, technically podcast because we delivered it as such. But we rented out a theater, like, a 200 seat theater and put on basically what was akin to a, like, nerdy tech Conan O'Brien show.

Alex Sheehan:

Okay. We had a band. What? We had guests. We had skits.

Alex Sheehan:

We had, like, news of the day. That was your that's

David Geisler:

what you were doing for Huffington Post?

Alex Sheehan:

That's what I did post Huffington Post. Post. But with the guy I met at Huff Post.

David Geisler:

Oh, I see. I see. I see. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

And one of our one of the people that helped us produce this whole thing, her her name is Alana. I owe everything to this woman. She had a boyfriend, now husband, who worked at Google on material design. Yeah. And they had just started building out all these libraries for, like, the web and iOS and Android and all this Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

For their, design system. Because over time, the the the, the notion of what material design was was just like, this is what a button should look like. This is where the button should go. They're trying to, change hearts and minds and think, like, you know, material design is more of a methodology.

David Geisler:

I see here.

Alex Sheehan:

They're building these these things for the web and iOS and whatever. So they had, this guy, Travis, and 1 guy in London building all these libraries, and they needed just an assassin to come in and just be a code monkey for 6 months.

David Geisler:

Sure.

Alex Sheehan:

So Alana's like, hey, do you you know how to write iOS code, right? And I'm shaking my head. This This is an audio medium, but I'm shaking my head no. And I said, absolutely, I know how to write iOS code. Of course.

Alex Sheehan:

Who doesn't? So introduced me to Travis. We chat for a while. I show him the work I was doing on the start up, and he's like, alright. Great.

Alex Sheehan:

I've seen enough. And, had to do, like, 1 or 2 technical screenings, but got got this job basically being a code monkey at Google.

David Geisler:

Did those screenings include iOS code? Did you have to, like, study it? No. Did you have to?

Alex Sheehan:

It was all, like, algorithms and Okay. I could use whatever language I wanted. There'd be, like, some pseudo coding. There'd be white boarding, like

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

Given x y z, how would you solve for blah?

David Geisler:

Of course.

Alex Sheehan:

I was like, okay. Well, I can talk for 40 minutes and then draw some stuff on the whiteboard and apparently that was enough. So I I get into Google. Eventually, I go full time there and I'm there for maybe like five and a half years.

David Geisler:

And this is still physically in New York I think?

Alex Sheehan:

Still physically in New York. Yep.

David Geisler:

I maybe because you were down there, like, almost 10 years, wasn't it at least?

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. A little over, like, 12, 13 years, something like that. I get divorced, moved back to Madison, Wisconsin for a year. I'm working with a team in Seattle at this point, so I'm flying like once a month to Seattle for a week and then coming back to Madison or New York or wherever. And it got to the point where the stuff I was working on would get, like, reorganized monthly.

Alex Sheehan:

There was really no upward trajectory that I could see.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

And so what do I do? I start a web 3 startup as all as all straight white men tend to do. It's either a podcast or a blockchain company. Cool. One of the 2.

Alex Sheehan:

Cool. One of the 2.

David Geisler:

That's scarily accurate.

Alex Sheehan:

It it really is.

David Geisler:

What motivated the move out of New York, I'm guessing, to Madison?

Alex Sheehan:

My ex wife Okay. Effectively. And I don't I don't I say that it may might sound malicious, but in no way, I I went along with it.

David Geisler:

It was

Alex Sheehan:

it was it seemed like time for her, definitely. And for me, I was like, okay. Like, nothing's really happening at work. I love New York but you know, I can always visit.

David Geisler:

Yeah, sure. You've been there for a decade or whatever. Yeah, switching up.

Alex Sheehan:

So we get divorced. I'm like, well I Madison means nothing to me. It's fine

David Geisler:

without that connection. I guess

Alex Sheehan:

that connection. So I moved back to New York and still at Google at this point, moved back to New York. I have my hot girl summer. I meet my current wife shortly after moving back to New York and I'm there for another, I don't know, 2 years, something like that.

David Geisler:

Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, this isn't that long ago.

Alex Sheehan:

No, this is not that long ago. So,

David Geisler:

What was it like being back in New York the second time?

Alex Sheehan:

Well, I think the week that I moved there, my dad goes on a golf trip with his buddies every other year to Tampa. So I went on that golf trip. I was like, you know what? Hot girl summer extended. We're going to Tampa boys.

Alex Sheehan:

And while we're there, stock market tanks, we start hearing rumblings of stuff on the golf course of their airports shutting down and because COVID hit.

David Geisler:

So

Alex Sheehan:

I'm like, Alright. Well, I might be driving back to New York. I get on like the last flight before the Tampa airport shuts down entirely back to New York. And so New York the second time was wildly different than the previous 10 years

David Geisler:

of

Alex Sheehan:

living there, But good in different ways. There's a lot of cool stuff happening. They all the restaurants had seating outside. The city shut down something like 800 miles of street to cars and so you could go and you could buy a cocktail at a bar and walk down

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

The, the street and just hang outside.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Chicago is doing a bit of that right now.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. I I think it's it's huge for cities, especially cities where, more or less you can walk places. Mhmm. Right? Cities like LA, you go to a place, and then you drive to the next place, and then you drive to the next place.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Chicago, you can go to a neighborhood and hit up a couple of bars, go to a restaurant, go see something cool. In COVID, I moved back to, this place called Crown Heights. A fun little smattering of culture that you can see. It's loud all the time.

Alex Sheehan:

I had a shitty apartment that was a 6th floor walk up. I got out of there quickly and went back to the neighborhood that I lived in most of the time, which is Spring Point, and moved to a studio apartment that was, like, maybe 4 square feet. And turns out, from a mental health perspective, living in a 400 square foot apartment during lockdown

David Geisler:

Right.

Alex Sheehan:

Not the greatest.

David Geisler:

Sure.

Alex Sheehan:

It's, it's pretty awful. I would I would sit in a room, not not any larger than what we're in right now, my entire apartment

David Geisler:

Yes.

Alex Sheehan:

And talked to my colleagues in Seattle. Right. And that was it. That was my entire

David Geisler:

And so then it's like why, if I may, why are you even in New York then?

Alex Sheehan:

Right. Yeah. There's still, like so some of the some of the things I really like about New York is the massive amounts of access to everything within a block radius just because there's so many people there, it can support 10 small businesses per block.

David Geisler:

Right. Right. It's a

Alex Sheehan:

bodega on every corner. So I could still go hit up the bodega and still go get a slice, come back, sit in the park, do whatever.

David Geisler:

I see. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

So there's that, that's nice. But I couldn't go and do all of the New York stuff.

David Geisler:

Right.

Alex Sheehan:

Right. I can't I couldn't go to Koreatown anymore till 4 AM. Probably good. It would have killed me. At this point, I'm in my thirties.

David Geisler:

Because we're, you know, we're even though, like, here in Chicago, even though the masks aren't mandatory indoors anymore, they still have us wearing them in class. Yeah. It's a bit much. It's okay.

Alex Sheehan:

It is. But, you know

David Geisler:

I mean, oh, I'm sorry. Not the ask of us to wear them. I'm totally fine with that. Yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler:

It's a bit much being in class and only seeing people's eyes, like, like, turn around.

Alex Sheehan:

For sure. I would go on runs and have to wear a mask outside Yeah. At the beginning. Mhmm. Hopefully, we're getting out of it.

Alex Sheehan:

It's probably gonna be done soon. So all this is kinda, like, taking a toll physically and mentally. Yeah. I was like,

David Geisler:

wait a second. How did you meet your current wife then if there's if it's all COVID?

Alex Sheehan:

The apps, baby. COVID doesn't travel over iOS. COVID COVID knows nothing about it.

David Geisler:

Did you guys meet on Hinge or something?

Alex Sheehan:

We met on Hinge, the app that's meant to be deleted.

David Geisler:

That's what May Macy and I met on Hinge.

Alex Sheehan:

That's great. It's, it's a magical magical app. I think Sasha says that she swiped whatever direction. It might even be a button. I don't know.

David Geisler:

Hinge is a button. It's all good.

Alex Sheehan:

Because, I was holding my ex wife's cat in one of my pictures. I think it's because in one of my little videos, I was doing a really cool backflip into my parents' pool. Oh. She will not give that to me. I think it's a no brainer, honestly, right?

Alex Sheehan:

You see some guy, right? Yeah. Middle of summer, having a blast in a pool, do a back flip in slow motion, and I, like, halfway through the flip I go to real slow motion.

David Geisler:

Oh, they're super slow that Ios does? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then you see the water and everything. Who could resist? Who could not have that in their life?

Alex Sheehan:

I know. I come back to that once a month. Just to show myself that I still got it. So we met on Hinge and we would do dates outside mostly.

David Geisler:

You really? That's what it was. Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

We'd go and,

David Geisler:

1st dates, like a coffee and and sitting on a park bench or something.

Alex Sheehan:

Pretty much. Yeah. Go go to the the restaurant across from her place and grab a couple of bottled cocktails and sit on the curb and sip those, play some cards on the street. We'll play a lot of, a lot of cribbage, a lot of Euchre. She had no idea what this was.

Alex Sheehan:

Euchre is like we had to train her.

David Geisler:

I'm from Wisconsin, and I'm still trying to figure out what Euker is. I think we've talked about this.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. It's it's an insane card game. If you want, look it up. It's a great game. You need 4 people.

Alex Sheehan:

The rules don't make sense. You only use half the cards, but whatever.

David Geisler:

Very Wisconsin style game. Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Yeah. And even though my relationship with Sasha was developing really, really well Mhmm. And I knew that she wanted to be in New York long term, the, the effect that living in this tiny apartment only really talking to her and my colleagues over Zoom was taking it. I got to the point where I was like, I need to go back, like, I'm I'm gonna move to Chicago, reset the life again, but be closer to, you know, friends from high school and family and

David Geisler:

all this.

Alex Sheehan:

So this was maybe February, I think.

David Geisler:

I might be jumping ahead. Did you have to, like, talk Sasha into it or do you guys just have a conversation about it? No.

Alex Sheehan:

I we went up to her parents' rooftop one day and it can't have been February. It must have been before the dead of winter.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. So

Alex Sheehan:

we're up on the roof, and I'm like, hey. I'm gonna go back. I'm I'm gonna move back. And fully expecting her to be like, alright. Well

David Geisler:

Peace out.

Alex Sheehan:

Have a nice life. Yeah. But she was like, well, can you wait? And I was like, what?

David Geisler:

No. Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

I'm like, would you, like, what Wait.

David Geisler:

I gotta ask. What was pulling you back to the Midwest?

Alex Sheehan:

Just, like, having a a a 6 month depression and, like, missing every missing everything that my life was before COVID.

David Geisler:

I see. I see. I see.

Alex Sheehan:

I didn't necessarily miss I I never lived in Chicago, so I didn't miss anything about Chicago particularly, but I knew it was, like, you know, it's a big city. It's an hour away from my folks. Yeah. It's probably perfectly livable. Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

And it is perfectly livable. So she's like, well, can you wait? And I was like, no, I'm I'm gonna go. And I asked, like, why why would I wait? Like, you're not going to move.

Alex Sheehan:

So, let's just this has been fun, let's just call it what it is. Oh my goodness. And, she's like, no, just wait until June, so 6 months or so, and I'm like alright, I can wait until June.

David Geisler:

I wanna ask you something really personal, how are you feeling about her at that point?

Alex Sheehan:

Very good. Yeah. Very, very good. I had been on a few dates before. I had a very, very quick, very, very deep relationship with someone post divorce before I met Sasha.

David Geisler:

Got it.

Alex Sheehan:

And Sasha was kinda like the first person where, I really cared at all about it being any more than just wasting time

David Geisler:

Sure.

Alex Sheehan:

In my early thirties in New York. Yeah. Yeah. It's the end of the hot boy summer.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Right.

Alex Sheehan:

Got it. So I was like, you know, alright, I will wait.

David Geisler:

I mean, I just realized something too. You're probably doing some healing there.

Alex Sheehan:

Oh, absolutely. You know? The first relationship back from the divorce was a lot of, really intense ups and downs, and I, like, the ups were great and I cherish those, but the downs were so bad that it was like, you know, I, you and I might have talked a little bit about it when it was going on at the time that, you just you kinda have to do the calculus around, are the lows really affecting me in such a way that the highs are making up for it, and they weren't. So I was asked to go to a, a wedding in Baltimore, and I thought there's no universe where I wanna go to a wedding in Baltimore with this person.

David Geisler:

So if

Alex Sheehan:

I can't even do that

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

It's just gotta end.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

And I dated some other people, but none of them really did much for me other than you're a nice person.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

We have a good time, but

David Geisler:

I'm gonna go full rom com here, and I'm and thank you for letting me, ask this of you. Was there a so because I I think I know what obviously, I know what happens because the 2 of you are here in Chicago now, but but this is fascinating to hear this exact moment. But I imagine that when she asks you to stay for 6 months, I imagine you had already had a certain like, that kind of click happened of feeling that there could be a long term thing with her? Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

Okay. Yeah. And, you know, luckily, she pushed for that because

David Geisler:

Push for the 6 months? Push for

Alex Sheehan:

the 6 months because otherwise, none of this would have happened. We wouldn't have got married. We wouldn't Yeah. Be together here. And she's like, alright.

Alex Sheehan:

Well, it's coming up on 6 months for, like, maybe 3 months away from deciding, and she's like alright, I can move to Chicago, why not? Interesting. She had been in New York. She moved to New York right after high school, so she had been there 15 years, went to school there, has, like, a great career, all this stuff. But she's, like, you know, I'm it's getting up there.

Alex Sheehan:

I wanna start a family. I prioritize that in my life. Yeah. And she's she said, like, okay. I I wanna move, but, I think we should get married if we're gonna move.

Alex Sheehan:

And I said, that makes a lot of sense. And that was the proposal. Woah. So we we, you know, we have a couple cocktails. She's of, she's of Russian stock, so couple cocktails were usually the the the evening agenda.

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Alex Sheehan:

And we call her mom and her dad, and we tell them the news. And they're like, oh, well, how did Alex propose? And Sasha was like, well, we just kinda had a conversation. And they'll and they're they're immigrants, and they're they're, like, traditional in that way. They're like, what?

David Geisler:

Yeah. No. It doesn't compute. That doesn't compute

Alex Sheehan:

at all. And, actually, they kinda had a similar situation, not to sidetrack too much, but they escaped the Soviet Union in the late eighties.

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Alex Sheehan:

And Sasha's older sister was born in Russia. Okay. And Mariana, her mom, was like, hey. To Val, her dad. My mom and my sister and I are moving to the United States

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

Or we're gonna try to. We have this child together. Do you wanna come? Mhmm. And Val's like, well, yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

I don't wanna just live here, this shithole of a country with dictators left and right for centuries. Let's try it. And they didn't know that they were gonna land in the US. They, for a while, the the process was they renounced their citizenship to the Soviet Union, and they don't have a passport. They don't have a country.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. So they were either going to go to Israel, the United States, or Switzerland. And so they they go to Switzerland first, and they try to find someone to, like, sponsor them to go to Israel, or try to make the jump to the US. Yeah. Sasha's aunt still lives in Switzerland.

Alex Sheehan:

She met her husband. He worked at the UN. He speaks a gazillion languages. They live there. But Val and Mariana made it to Pittsburgh, where they had Sasha.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

So it's another one of these, hey. I'm going. Yeah. You coming with? Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

Alright. So Sasha and I get to Chicago. It is February. It is freezing. Yes.

Alex Sheehan:

Sorry.

David Geisler:

Did you find the the house before or after getting here? After.

Alex Sheehan:

So the plan was the original plan was I'm gonna move to Chicago, like, in a month. Yeah. And I didn't know what would happen. Then we did the 6 months, and then in June, we're like, alright. We're gonna get married here in in New York.

Alex Sheehan:

We had a small ceremony in our apartment, and then once that all settles down, we'll move to Chicago. We rented an apartment on North Avenue in Wicker

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Alex Sheehan:

And it was pretty cool apartment, actually. 2 bedroom, nice turret. The problem was the move was rife with, with horrible horribleness. On the way here Did you drive? No.

Alex Sheehan:

Well, we drove, but we also had our stuff shipped.

David Geisler:

Okay. Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

And the shipping company, the way these things work is if you go cross country shipping, they put all your stuff in a truck, and they put the truck somewhere in Connecticut, and then they put other people's stuff in that truck. And then when they have a critical mass of things that need to go to Chicago, they drive to Chicago.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Alex Sheehan:

Their estimate was, 5 days. We'll see you there.

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Alex Sheehan:

So if we go, we drive in our little Subaru oh, not only that, they wouldn't take any of our plants because apparently that's illegal to cross state lines with plants.

David Geisler:

I think it has something to do with the possible bugs that can move with the plants. I've heard about this. Just just like you can't do state lines with firewood.

Alex Sheehan:

Right. So the 5 day estimate from the movers ended up being, like, a 2 and a half week.

David Geisler:

Did you have the apartment lined up?

Alex Sheehan:

We had the apartment.

David Geisler:

I see.

Alex Sheehan:

But we had no furniture. We had no dishes. We had nothing. So for that time, we went to IKEA. We bought a mattress topper

David Geisler:

because

Alex Sheehan:

we're like, we'll need one of these when the bed gets here eventually. We slept on that, and my parents lent us a foldable card like, a collapsible card table Sure. That we had our our meals on. Yeah. And the first thing we ate when we got there, when we got the card table set up, I was like, oh, Sasha, you gotta you gotta you gotta see these Italian beefs.

Alex Sheehan:

Oh. Because those don't exist in New York. Right. No giardiniera to to speak of.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Wow.

Alex Sheehan:

I don't know how. Every every other cuisine on earth exists there except no Italian beefs and no giardiniera and no tavern style pizza, but that's okay. So I'm like, check this out. I put in an order, couple Italian beefs.

David Geisler:

I dial

Alex Sheehan:

them up. They get to the house. It's this place, The Hat, which I don't know if they're an advertiser of yours, but they're horrible. You're about to lose them as an advertiser. And she's like, what have I done?

Alex Sheehan:

She takes one bite of this. She's like this

David Geisler:

You're you're trying to, like, sell Chicago a little bit.

Alex Sheehan:

I you you have to. I mean Hey, honey.

David Geisler:

I know we're here. I know it's rough. We got a we got a table and a mattress. Friends.

Alex Sheehan:

You left your career. You left everything. Beautiful apartment. Here's Chicago. It's freezing.

Alex Sheehan:

And this food that I've been trying to sell you on, it this is the worst version of

David Geisler:

it. Oh, man. Was it just soggy tasteless or was it just put together weird?

Alex Sheehan:

Okay. Basically. Soggy and tasteless is exactly what it was. Mhmm.

David Geisler:

But, you

Alex Sheehan:

know, at that point, we were kinda, like, exhausted from the drive and,

David Geisler:

you know. Which some people call your stand up routine.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. Exhausting and long.

David Geisler:

No soggy and tasteless. But, you know, there's a version of this where this is actually really romantic, the 2 of you in the apartment. I don't know.

Alex Sheehan:

Did it From the outside. Yeah. Yeah. Living it

David Geisler:

Is it a little stressful?

Alex Sheehan:

Living it was a little stressful. She she did great. She gave it the college try, and we, you know, we the apartment was good and we eventually got our stuff, and, that's when we started thinking about what Sasha was gonna do in Chicago.

David Geisler:

Right.

Alex Sheehan:

She has a background in fashion design. She worked at Club Monaco, Madewell, places like that. So corporate jobs, yes, but still, a creative endeavor. Yeah. And it was it's cool whenever you see someone using your stuff.

Alex Sheehan:

So she'd see, like, a dress she designed, someone was wearing it walking down the street, stuff like that.

David Geisler:

That is cool.

Alex Sheehan:

Which she no longer has. She's got, like, basically nothing. She's got her cats and

David Geisler:

In the apartment with the folding table.

Alex Sheehan:

The folding table and all that. My life. So we thought okay, there's a lot of vintage stuff around here. Yeah. Maybe I'll buy a bunch of vintage clothes and I'll sell it back to the corporate design jobs.

Alex Sheehan:

They'll have people go out and buy like vintage clothes or other clothes and, like, take inspiration from it. All this seems like maybe I can do that. I can buy a bunch of vintage clothes here, fly to New York, fly to LA, and kind of just, like, sell it and be a stylist or one of these people that sells to the the corporate design jobs. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, well, the Midwest is kind of the epicenter for mid century furniture in the United States because all this stuff was built in Grand Rapids and Indianapolis and places like this.

Alex Sheehan:

So all these people are dying with their furniture from the sixties, and we just say, alright. Well, let's just go around and buy all that.

David Geisler:

As a as a hobby or to fill your apartment or as her career?

Alex Sheehan:

Her career. Yeah. And, just about this time, friend of the podcast, Benjamin Johnson and Emily Krieger, had bought a commercial space with their apartment above it. Did you call her Emily Krieger? She's now Emily Johnson, but her maiden name was Emily Krieger.

David Geisler:

Of course. Okay. I I guess I never knew that.

Alex Sheehan:

Yeah. And so she started a little retail shop and, that's just what her Chicago life became for a while Yeah. Was was setting the setting up this, the shop.

David Geisler:

What it is right now, I think. Mhmm. The, so then so so it goes it goes apartment, shop, and then the house that you just found?

Alex Sheehan:

Yep. Yep. So, the idea all along was we would rent an apartment for as long as it took to find a house. And we kind of lucked out on timing, the housing market. This is a podcast about, like, financing houses, right?

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

Alex Sheehan:

we can do a deep dive there.

David Geisler:

I think,

Alex Sheehan:

yeah, I think we can the rates I think

David Geisler:

a good 40 minute yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

I think just really get to the nitty gritty.

David Geisler:

Oh, and get in there.

Alex Sheehan:

Real, real esoteric stuff.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Alex Sheehan:

We we found this house at the right time, got locked in to a great rate.

David Geisler:

Cool. And

Alex Sheehan:

this is where we live now. Yeah. Beautiful house.

David Geisler:

It is. It is.

Alex Sheehan:

In Logan, right by the 606, if you're familiar. And that kinda takes us to where we are now.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Just kinda

Alex Sheehan:

just kinda bought the house and moved in and

David Geisler:

life together again.

Alex Sheehan:

Life together again. Wow. For the 3rd time? 4th time?

David Geisler:

Yeah. The 3rd time or the 4th time. I definitely know how that feels. I I don't even know what time am I on. Am I on the 5th time?

David Geisler:

The 6th time? How many times do you get? And how many times do you get before you realize that maybe you're just not doing it right? Or is it worth continuing to try? Yeah, okay, everybody knows about the, like the alleged, you know, the quote from Einstein about the only definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again.

David Geisler:

I don't think that's Alex's story. And I'd I hope that that's not my story. Hopefully, my story, and I suppose parts of his story, are about finding what you really wanna do. I think it's easy to find a, you know, no disrespect, but like a, you know, middle kind of vanilla job and have that be your thing. And then you do that for 20, 30, 40 years, and then you retire.

David Geisler:

And for some people, I'm sure that that allows them to find the other things they wanna do that make them happy. Maybe it allows them to go on certain vacations or live a certain way or raise a family a certain way. But I do know that for me, I really need for my job to be the thing that I love. I think I'm done playing both sides and having neither really truly giving me what I want. I know why I wanna wake up in the morning, and I would like for that reason to also be my job.

David Geisler:

And maybe sometimes those kinds of situations fall into people's laps, and I'm happy for them. I I really am whoever they are. Or maybe sometimes someone gets a job and they find their calling through that job and that's also phenomenal. You know, I explored this 2 episodes ago and part of the reason I'm so grateful to be in this relationship with Macy is that I really, really, really know what I wanna do. And I wasn't fully expecting to take this path to get to it.

David Geisler:

But I really thought, you know, just keep making podcasts you care about and one of them will stand out enough or they won't and if they don't, are you still happy? And maybe the David from 2017 would be happy with that. Being poor, making 3 or 4 awesome podcasts, but, you know, getting your being able to kinda do your thing and make your, I guess, art and getting it out there, For me, that is enough. But of course, as the picture gets bigger, as you enter a relationship, your responsibilities grow. If you start a family, your responsibilities grow.

David Geisler:

And, you know, Macy and I, we we are not particularly interested in having children, and that's fine. We agree on that point, and I really do feel like all the other pieces are coming together.

Vocals:

We started dreaming right in that moment of all the things we're gonna do someday.

David Geisler:

I hope this, I don't know, work stress thing ebbs. I hope that's what it is. I hope it's not me. I hope I can help. Because it really struck me when Alex talked about that situation with that brief relationship he had where, you know, he spoke about, I guess I guess in some ways weighing the positives and the negatives.

David Geisler:

And it's true, the positives can be really high. And if the negatives are too low, I don't know, when does one outweigh the other? And I'm really scared that the negatives are starting to take a toll on me with Macy and I, and I genuinely don't want that to be the case.

Vocals:

I'm not going anywhere. I wanna be right back.

David Geisler:

It was kind of funny. She and I, I guess, quote, unquote, got engaged in a similar way as Alex and Sasha. There hasn't been a ring moment or anything. We aren't wearing rings yet. I do, side note, think I'll probably try to surprise her with a, you know, I guess post proposal or something like that.

David Geisler:

But really, for us, getting married was also a conversation. But I remember the moment when we were looking into each other's eyes, and we and we just knew this was the beginning and we were gonna be together forever.

Vocals:

We could get married nor fancy wedding.

David Geisler:

Garden. 3 years. We'll get through this, and then it'll just be us.

Vocals:

We'd have each other. We'd be so happy with only the bare necessities. So please don't be surprised when I say to you, dotting it soon.

David Geisler:

And we have been talking about ceremonies. There's a version where we might have a ceremony on the land in Kentucky. We also found this cool little hiking, company that takes you and 12 other people out into the woods, to, like, have the ceremony out in the woods. I I think that's super awesome. Neither of us are interested in a quote unquote traditional, ceremony, perhaps similar to what Alex and Sasha did quite frankly.

David Geisler:

You know, they got married with a couple friends in an apartment in New York and then moved here to the Midwest and had a celebration, I guess, kind of like a delayed reception almost a half a year later. Macy and I are planning the same. Small ceremony, maybe in Kentucky. I'm gonna try to have it happen by the waterfall, to be honest. Then maybe a small ceremony on the land and then we come back to the midwest and actually celebrate with our big family.

David Geisler:

We are committed to each other. We're in this. We're in this till the end now. I think we both knew, maybe half a year in, that, this was gonna work. So we'll get through this.

David Geisler:

We'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. Something. I'll find a way to help her have less stress. Something.

David Geisler:

I I I'll be there for her. I hope she feels that I am there for her. Her. Well, of course, I'd like to thank my cousin for giving me some time and sharing his story with me. It's interesting because it's always nice to hear other people's stories.

David Geisler:

You can always call something out that some theme or some lesson learned that you can apply to your own life. Hopefully, maybe you as a listener listening to some of these stories are also able to consider things that are happening in your life. I don't know. That's that's all just part of the listener experience, isn't it? You know, a lot of times, if you pick a lifestyle where you have to kind of make your own path, well, I mean, just like making an actual literal path in the woods, it doesn't always go the direction you expect.

David Geisler:

Sometimes you have to I'm serious. Sometimes you have to completely change where the path is going because a set of trees there in the way or some rocks or a cliff and you have to look into the woods and just try to read the land and see where the opportunities are. And honestly, if I'm sticking with this metaphor, I have had times out on the land in Kentucky where I've literally had to backtrack on a path and have it go a completely different direction. And so, of course, it's almost becoming a little on the nose here, but those things happen when you try to pick your own career path in life. In the next episode, I'm going to head west a little bit.

David Geisler:

No. No. I'm not talking about heading to the Rocky Mountains or anything like that, but I will be heading to the west suburbs of Chicago. Do you remember this guy from the 3rd episode? Really, the person who introduces himself.

David Geisler:

First? Yeah. His name's Alex Hahn and he was my roommate in college and also the person who helped start the art gallery with me. Well, he and I fell out of touch for almost maybe a good 10, 15 years and we've recently, I guess you could say, found each other again. He's now living in a house with his wife and 2 kids and is working in the film and television industry here in Chicago.

David Geisler:

Anyways, in the next episode, I'll drive out to his house and he'll treat me to a delicious lunch and then we'll sit down and talk a little bit about what life has been like over the last 15, 20 years. It was a particularly interesting conversation because not only do we talk about navigating a career path in a creative field but, of course, we're both able to equally reminisce about what Columbia College was like 20 years ago. Until then, I'm David Geisler. I'm almost done with my 1st semester at Columbia as a returning student. Next time on Returning Student.

David Geisler:

You're married with kids now. That's a thing. Yeah. I mean, that's an adventure. Hi, honey.

David Geisler:

We hope brunch was great, and, we're going back to the land to cut up some wood, like, a lot of wood. He's gonna do that. I'm gonna make dinner. Unfortunately, it's like one of those when you're good at a job, they wanna keep you there at that level. Oh.

David Geisler:

And, like, not let you like, I'm seeing all my friends advance. You're the best

Alex Sheehan:

PA ever.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Like, I don't wanna be super senior PA, but I was. Like, every all my friends that we started PA ing and put together. Like, alright. Now I'm an art director here and this and that.

David Geisler:

I'm like, hey, Kate. Can I get in the union too? Like I don't know. Because everything in Maya, like, cinema 4 d didn't exist when I was in college. Like, I learned that online.

David Geisler:

Yeah. So I'd say, why did I spend all that money on a degree? And I think back, like, if I was to go back in animation, I'm like, what do I use now doing animation now that I learned in college? I'm like, maybe how to make a puppet? Returning Student is a production of 6 5 Media.

David Geisler:

You can find the show notes for this episode on our website, returningstudent.com. Shows hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, David Geisler. Links to the music used in this episode can be found in our show notes as well as on our website. If you liked the show, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and tell your friends. I'm gonna be doing this for a couple years, so let's find out together how all this is gonna go.

David Geisler:

You can follow the show on Twitter and Instagram at returning student. That's student spelled s t d t. Alright. I'm David Geisler, and I'll see you on the next episode of Returning Student.