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Work-life balance isn’t a myth—it’s a mission. At The Double Win Podcast we believe that ambitious, high-growth individuals can experience personal and professional fulfillment simultaneously. Hosted by the creators of the Full Focus Planner, Michael Hyatt and Megan Hyatt Miller, The Double Win Podcast is your go-to resource for unlocking secrets to productivity, wellness, and work-life balance.
The Double Win Podcast features insightful weekly conversations with thought leaders, executives, and entrepreneurs sharing fascinating personal stories and actionable ideas for balancing professional success with personal well-being. Whether you're looking for motivation to achieve your goals or strategies to harmonize your career and life, The Double Win Podcast provides the perspectives and tools you need.
Michael and Megan focus on the nine domains of life—body, mind, and spirit, love, family, community, money, work, and hobbies—offering practical advice to help you thrive. Discover how to integrate purposeful productivity and overall wellness into your daily routine, stay motivated, and experience a life of joy and significance. Hit subscribe and embark on your journey to winning at work and succeeding at life.
[00:00:00] Brad: I think most businesses over index on marketing, sales, and ops, obviously, to follow through on those promises, and they under index on culture and vision.
[00:00:16] Michael: Hi, I'm Michael Hyatt.
[00:00:17] Megan: And I'm Megan Hyatt Miller.
[00:00:18] Michael: And you're listening to The Double Wind Show.
[00:00:20] Megan: Well, we are so excited to talk today with our friend Brad Johnson.
[00:00:26] This is an amazing conversation.
[00:00:28] Michael: Well, Brad is the host of the Do Business Do Life podcast, where he explores strategies for building successful businesses without sacrificing personal fulfillment. And that may sound familiar to you because it's Brad's version of the double win, but he's a sought after speaker, a mentor for financial advisors and entrepreneurs aiming to balance professional success with personal satisfaction.
[00:00:52] I've known Brad for about 10 years. Megan and I both known him. He first attended platform conference back in the day. He [00:01:00] became a part of a mastermind that Megan and I were leading called the inner circle. And we've gotten to know him and his wife, Sarah, and their kids very well. And we're so excited to have him on because he's living the double win and he's got a lot to say about it and he's fought for it to get there.
[00:01:17] And I think you guys are going to be really inspired and you're going to get some practical tips along the way. So here's our conversation with Brad.
[00:01:29] Brad Johnson, welcome to the show. Excited to be here. We are so excited because we have so much history together. And it goes back almost a decade. And I mentioned some of that in the, you know, in the introduction. But man, you've become one of my closest friends. I'm involved with your business. I just love seeing how you've grown and particularly what you stand for and how you're influencing other people to this day, a lot of people, a lot of really important people, and that's been [00:02:00] amazing to watch.
[00:02:01] Brad: Well, thank you, Michael. I, I had a, uh, great example. I know we. First cross paths platform university, which then became a mastermind, which then became inner circle. But it was, it was cool because it started really a mentorship from afar, from reading your book and reading some of your blog. And then it, uh, slowly grew closer and it's been really cool to see, uh, you've been an incredible supporter of what we're building at triad and.
[00:02:26] Help Sean and I tremendously in the early years where it was really chaotic, ton of stress, and it's just been cool to have you by our side as a voice of reason that's been there before a lot of those situations. I really appreciate it. And same with Megan, like I've learned a lot from her and obviously had a lot of opportunity to interact.
[00:02:43] Uh, back in the inner circle days. And so I really appreciate, it's been awesome. Just getting to run this journey with you both. Well, thanks.
[00:02:51] Megan: Thank you. You know, I think what I love about your story and what we're going to get into today is we need tangible examples of people who are committed [00:03:00] to the double win, winning at work and succeeding at life in various contexts, you know, because I think a lot of times people as they're pursuing this, you know, They don't have examples of other people who've done this.
[00:03:11] Well, maybe they're in a, an industry or they're in a social context where nobody they know is figuring out the double win, you know, they're, they're hustling hard or maybe they're not reaching their potential professionally on the other end of the spectrum. But regardless, I don't know what it looks like.
[00:03:27] And I think you've figured a lot of this out and you are figuring it out in an industry. That people might easily dismiss as, yeah, that's not possible there. Those guys don't do it. And I think that your example is powerful. So thank you for showing the way and being an example that others can follow.
[00:03:45] Brad: Hey, rent's due every day. And sometimes, you know, none of us are perfect at it. Right. But I do think, especially in the world of finance, which is the world I've really grown up in in business. Uh, when all you do is deal with money all day, every day, [00:04:00] sometimes people can get consumed by it. The pursuit of it.
[00:04:02] I've seen a lot of regret of people that let that chase of building a business, uh, become their life versus why most entrepreneurs start. It's, you know, Hey, I want to do this a different way. And I've seen, unfortunately, where entrepreneurs, independent financial advisors is who we work with. They accidentally build the prison around themselves that they tried to break out of.
[00:04:23] And it's really sad when that happens.
[00:04:25] Michael: I think for, for so many people, the hustle is just the default. They literally don't know there's another way. And so when people come along and challenge the status quo, like you, I mean, I can remember back when you first launched a podcast and all the financial advisors, everybody in finance was saying, Oh, you can't do that.
[00:04:43] There's too much, you know, required in compliance. And you can't do that without getting in trouble. And you did it. You know, there were a few people at the very beginning that started a podcast in the financial industry. And one of the reasons I think you have such a great podcast, and I highly [00:05:00] recommended everybody, even if you're not a financial advisor, because Brad interviews some amazing people.
[00:05:05] And he's one of the best interviewers I know, but because you started early, you developed the chops that kind of got you out in front of everybody else. Now there's lots of, you know, financial podcasts, but man, you're one of the OGs.
[00:05:20] Brad: I appreciate that. You know, uh, I, you, I think you told me this, Michael, obviously you started a blog.
[00:05:26] I mean, you were a CEO when Thomas Nelson, when you were like really actively started blogging. And I think one of the things that holds people back from creating is this fear. Oh, what if it's not perfect? What if somebody doesn't like it? What if I suck? You know, all of that kind of head trash for lack of a better term.
[00:05:44] And I think you told me you're like, Hey, fail when nobody's listening or watching or reading. I mean, that's a great place to figure it out. And it's amazing. I would say doing at this point, probably 200 plus podcasts, you develop this [00:06:00] confidence. Those early episodes were rough, a lot of verbal tics, a lot of ums, uhs, sos.
[00:06:06] But if you're a student and you go back, that's how you get better. You get in the game. You don't just watch from the sidelines. And, um, you helped nudge me down that path, so I appreciate that. I don't know that Trad would exist today if it wasn't for that early podcasting journey.
[00:06:19] Huh.
[00:06:19] Brad: Because it was part of what gave me the confidence that, hey, I've got value that I can add and there might be more to this than just being an employee the rest of my life.
[00:06:28] Michael: You know, Andy Stanley said one time about speaking, he said you really should watch your videos if you speak. And he said, because one of two things will happen. Either you'll quit or you'll get better. You're watching yourself and it's so awkward. Initially you will improve. Cause you go like, geez, and this is like a revelation to me.
[00:06:49] Like I'm literally never smiling. And so, you know, once I became aware of that, then I could start fixing it. And I still had to work on my smiling for a couple of years and still have to work on it, [00:07:00] but I'm better at it.
[00:07:00] Yeah.
[00:07:01] Michael: Hey, let's go back to the beginning of your story because I just want to kind of give context here.
[00:07:05] And I don't know why context doesn't show up in my top five strings finders, but it doesn't, but I always like context. So kind of give us where you started from and sort of the journey to get to where you are
[00:07:16] Brad: now. Formative years, grew up on a farm in Kansas, true farm boy through hay bales in the summertime, Lower middle class didn't come from much great family hard working a lot of that that I carry with me today I grew up in a town of 2, 000 people.
[00:07:31] So Minneapolis, Kansas, most people don't know it exists It's right in the middle of Kansas, but it was kind of the golden rule treat others as you want to be treated I just heard this the other day. They call it Midwest nice now, I guess but you know when you grow up and if you are a jerk Your parents know about it before you even get home because somebody from town called him and told him about it.
[00:07:50] So it's a really great filter in life to be just brought up that way. So that was formative years went to college played college football. So Athletics and [00:08:00] team sports really influenced me a lot first job out of college. I was an IT major Payless shoe source now defunct their corporate office was in Topeka.
[00:08:08] So that was what brought me to Topeka. And about three years in, I realized I didn't want to code the rest of my life. Uh, I was coding on the backend of Excel. Not very well loved people, always interested in finance was, you know, researching Google's IPO, Chipotle, Under Armour. I think they were all IPO ing at that time.
[00:08:28] And I was like, I think I want to be a financial advisor. So started studying for that, for my CFP. And right about that time, as I was interviewing at Ed Jones, Ameriprise, John Hancock, kind of the usual suspects there, I had convinced my wife that I was going to leave my corporate job. That was pretty nice.
[00:08:48] I was like 24, 25, making over 50k a year, which, I mean, this was a long time ago, so that was a good living in Kansas at the time. So I'd convinced my wife, who was teaching grade school. Uh, we needed to move to Kansas [00:09:00] city, bigger market to her. I don't know how, like she has, that's been one of the biggest things that she has always been such a great supporter.
[00:09:07] And you guys both know Sarah, but, um, I think that's an underappreciated thing in life is a supportive spouse. She always believed in me. She was like, okay, cool. I guess we're just going to live on commission only. And right at that time, you guys both know, uh, Sean Sparks, my business partner at triad, he was interviewing at a, at the time, what was a very small insurance brokerage firm in Topeka, Kansas.
[00:09:32] And he's like, well, if you're quitting your job anyway, to go into finance, you should interview here because we're hiring. And that was my foot in the door into the world of insurance brokerage, wealth management. Day one. Reading a brochure on annuities day two cold call 100 advisors and try to convince them to fly into Topeka, Kansas So that was kind of my training regimen back in the day Jump in the deep end and learn how to swim But I fell in love with the business fell in love with the [00:10:00] people and just when you really look at it Finance at least how we see it other than like maybe Somebody that's dealing with the health concern, you know, like a doctor or a nurse I believe money is like the next closest thing that create a lot of people struggle with a lot of unfortunate things when you don't have the means and we're in an industry where we can help people put plans together that, you know, can set them up generationally.
[00:10:25] And so it's just love the business and it's been, uh, Super passionate about it and love helping people in it. So that's the kind of CliffsNotes version of it.
[00:10:34] Megan: So Brad, you went from working for somebody else to starting Triad Partners. And tell me a little bit about some of the guiding principles as you thought to yourself, okay, Sean and I are going to start this business.
[00:10:47] What were some of the guiding principles that you set in place to make sure that the kind of balance between, Your priorities professionally and the goals for the business and also the things that matter [00:11:00] to you personally were not in conflict with each other.
[00:11:04] Brad: I think let's call it chapter one in finance.
[00:11:07] I think what I learned a lot of, so when I got into the business, I was 26 years old. I was married. I had no kids at the time. And. It was kind of the grind. It was, you know, I didn't grow up with much. I think a lot of people, when they first start making money or the pursuit of it or their business career, a lot of times, if you're honest with yourself, it's the pursuit of the stuff you didn't get.
[00:11:30] Right. Whatever that, that gap was, uh, monetary things, um, toys, whatever you want to call it, the boats, the cars, all of that stuff. And so I think my first chapter was a lot of a pursuit of just go grind it away, crush it, make money, obviously serve people along the way. I mean, but when I looked up, COVID was a really big, as one of my friends calls it, scratch in the record.
[00:11:56] The party stopped during COVID. The regular routine that I [00:12:00] think most people were in for business stopped. And as bad as that was from a health standpoint for a lot out there, it was a weird sort of way of blessing for our family. That year I would have been on the road, I think it was 80 plus nights. I counted up with all of the different trainings and we were doing them all over the country.
[00:12:18] And I was, Transparently making more money than I ever thought I would make in a lifetime annually
[00:12:23] Megan (2): was
[00:12:23] Brad: compensated really well had had done Well had built a book of business that was a billion plus of annual assets being driven through my clients And I thought there was more out there Megan where it was like kind of man am I called for something more?
[00:12:37] I'd kind of like Gotten a little complacent where I'd kind of figured out the role I was in and there wasn't really anywhere else to go. And I remember one day at the end of a day where I was on zoom all day long, cause that's how we were doing our coaching. And I was in my spare bedroom upstairs that I'd turned into an office and my wife knocked at the door and she had two glasses of red wine.
[00:12:59] At five [00:13:00] o'clock and she just opens the door and she's like, are you off work yet? I said actually yeah, I am and it just kind of reset to where I looked and I was like, wow 80 some nights a year. I was going to be gone missing ball games missing family dinners. Is that success? Is that my definition of success?
[00:13:17] I was making a ton of money and the more I thought about it It almost started eating away at me a little bit like No, I don't think it is. Like I can't buy that time back. There's a more valuable asset here on the line and it's time. And we have three kiddos now today, 14, 13, Bron and Nash are two oldest boys, and then Nellie, our little girl, she's eight.
[00:13:40] And I was just like, you know what? I don't think that's the trade off I want to make, even if I have to sacrifice money to change the game. And so for us, do business, do life. Um, that's our version of the double win. It was kind of a selfish pursuit. Sean, my business [00:14:00] partner also married four kids. His are a little younger than ours, but I remember one night we had this little poster that we did with the kids and it was called what it means to be a Johnson kid.
[00:14:10] And one of the things we put on there was. Johnson's get uncomfortable and do hard things. And so we would have this little nighttime routine where I would just ask the kids, there were probably 20, 25 different little sayings on there. And I would just ask for a different one each night. And that one would come up quite a bit.
[00:14:29] Hey, we get uncomfortable. We do hard things. That's where the growth happens. And I remember I'm sitting there as a parent, trying to instill these lessons in my kids. And then I'm looking in the mirror. I'm like, wait, am I getting uncomfortable? Am I doing hard things? Are they going to someday look at me on my deathbed and say, well, dad told us to do it, but he never really did it.
[00:14:51] It's kind of regret minimization. That's the way I look at it. I don't want to look back and have these big what ifs, you know, it would just keep coming up to the top. And this was about [00:15:00] a two to three year journey. Sarah and I really started to talk about it. When I look through my kid's eyes, it got so much easier.
[00:15:06] Like I was looking longterm, not short term. No decision is easy short term like that. And I heard it said once a weekly paycheck. Is the most addictive drug in the world. It's really hard to leave especially when it's big And that was the filter megan that really It almost became a non negotiable Of it's not should I do this?
[00:15:27] It's I must do this and I had a lot of my clients at the time as they, their businesses had become more successful. They were feeling the same thing. I was where the business wasn't serving them anymore. They were serving the business. And there was a different playbook that Sean and I were both very passionate about.
[00:15:47] It's not an easy one to build. It's completely different to be a great business owner than it is to be a great financial advisor. And. So that was just, that was kind of the genesis of it. And we didn't have all the rules figured out, all of the mantras [00:16:00] figured out, but that was the pursuit.
[00:16:03] Megan: So tell us more about what do business do life means for you.
[00:16:08] Brad: Well, you, you both will appreciate where this originally came to be. It was at Blackberry farm.
[00:16:14] Megan: Our favorite place. Yes. What you introduced me
[00:16:17] Brad: to it. You, you took me, Michael, that was the last meeting for the inner circle. I think it was 2016. If I remember right.
[00:16:24] Michael: I think that's right.
[00:16:25] Brad: Blackberry farm for those that aren't familiar, Google it.
[00:16:28] And Take a trip there. That's just and thank us all later, right? It's expensive, but it's amazing. It is pricey, but I would say it's worth it. So backtracking. So this was 2020. Also the year I turned 40. And so I let my prior employer know in June, I had made the decision to move on. They kind of asked me like, what are you going to do?
[00:16:47] I didn't know yet. I just knew I fell in love with podcasting. I thought I was going to podcast for a couple years. I triad was not on the roadmap yet. Yeah. Sean and I were not even planning on being business partners. Like all of this, none of this had happened yet. [00:17:00] And so June, I told him by July, I was really having a ton of conversations because I was transitioning a lot of my clients that I'd known for 10, 15 years to other people that would work with them after I left.
[00:17:13] And that was, that was really hard. But July was 15 year wedding anniversary. So we took a trip to Blackberry farm. And so it was kind of a combo 40th anniversary. Leaving my prior career and uh, anniversary. So birthday anniversary and leaving your career. So there's a lot wrapped up in that trip. And so Sean and his wife, Aubrey went with us, Justin and Jennifer Donald.
[00:17:37] So I think has Justin been on the podcast?
[00:17:40] Megan (2): Yeah.
[00:17:40] Brad: Okay. So Justin, another friend, Casey and his wife, and we were hiking in Blackberry. The three girls were here, the three guys were here. So it was kind of two different conversations going on. I had already decided I was leaving, but I hadn't figured out what was next.
[00:17:56] And we were just having kind of a philosophical conversation, Sean, Justin, and [00:18:00] myself about, wouldn't it be cool to do business with people you want to do life with? And it was just a conversation. It was a passing comment in a bigger conversation, but I heard it said once the good stuff sticks. And that stuck and it was kind of as triad became a thing, it was kind of a really simple do business do life.
[00:18:24] It was an easy way, a phrase, kind of a mission and North Star to go to. And it's like, well, number one, as we curate this community at triad, we wanted to do it very differently. So we yeah, We did it differently than any brokerage business that I'm aware of that exists in finance. We took the minimums way up as far as revenue required, growth minded, check your ego at the door.
[00:18:47] We only wanted to work with people that wanted to be students and chose that they'd never arrive because as you both know, in a coaching program, it's tough to coach people that already know it all. It's kind of really difficult. [00:19:00] And so we're like, well, that would be a good filter. And then the third one was what if we just decided to do business with people we want to do life with.
[00:19:06] And really our litmus test there was, would I invite them into my home and break bread at the family dinner table, whether or not we were doing business or not. And that was kind of the do business, do life. And then the other side of that was building a business that blesses the life, doesn't become your life.
[00:19:25] And that was more the structure and the framework. We call it building a business of significance. So it's got to be a business that's bigger than you. That can outlast you, which means it can't just depend on you, which is a different playbook than most advisors build their businesses with. That was kind of the Genesis story and it's evolved a lot since then, but that was where it first came out.
[00:19:44] Michael: We sat in this very room and you guys shared with me your vision and kind of how you wanted to be different. And I felt like I was signing on, you know, I didn't know Sean at the time, but I knew you and I thought, you know, whatever [00:20:00] Brad does is going to work. And I'd like to be part of it, but I'd love for you to talk just through sort of the evolution.
[00:20:06] Maybe it's a series of stages or phases that you've gone through. And I've had the catbird seat, and I could do this too, but I, I, I want to hear it from you. What were the phases that you went through from just a couple of entrepreneurs and a couple staff people to now what? Do you have like 70 plus people in your company?
[00:20:24] Brad: We're right just under a hundred.
[00:20:26] Michael: So talk about the evolution of that, because I think a lot of people. You know, they look at somebody like you and you guys have found enormous success and some people might be tempted to say, Oh, well, he's just an overnight success or he just got lucky. But it's really kind of the story of it's, it's never always up into the right.
[00:20:46] There are setbacks, there are challenges, there are times you want to quit, times you think that, you know, the wheels are coming off the track, but how did the whole thing go for you?
[00:20:55] Brad: Actually, I remember this from a long time ago, Darren Hardy did a little private coaching [00:21:00] thing and he was talking about what it takes to be successful and he goes, it's hard fricking work and anybody that thinks it's any different.
[00:21:08] Is telling themselves a lie and man, somebody asked me the first year of triad, what I'd learned because in my chair, I had been in a coaching chair for independent financial advisors, which is basically an entrepreneur that happens to build a business in finance. So I had coached for 13 years. In my prior role.
[00:21:30] So I was very familiar with, you know, Hey, the, the turnover issues, the personnel issues, the marketing, the sales, everything, like all of the different ingredients of running a business. And so I think I kind of told myself, Oh, this won't be that hard. And one of the lessons I learned. It's a lot easier to coach entrepreneurs than it is to be one.
[00:21:51] True.
[00:21:53] But to
[00:21:53] Brad: be the entrepreneur in a classroom is very different than being the entrepreneur in the real world. And [00:22:00] I'll tell you, and Michael, you were super helpful early on. Sean and I. I loved him, but there were many days I did not like him. So he's like, he's like a brother. I met him in college, like one of my closest friends in life.
[00:22:10] And he's been there for a lot of my life's journey and vice versa. But what we didn't know how to do was be business owners. A couple of things that you told us early on that could be helpful for entrepreneurs out there. Your differences are your strengths. Our differences did not feel like strengths in the early days.
[00:22:28] We were doing a lot of this button heads, show your work. The other person can't read your mind. A lot of times we had arrived at decisions that we had already thought out, but the other person had no clue that what work had already happened. Um, and, and this is, I believe, great advice, not just for business partners, but anybody you're working with, right.
[00:22:47] Um, just in any team dynamic. Another one you said that was very hard to do in the early days is leaders are calm and confident. Yeah. And I can remember an early [00:23:00] conversation in a conference room where things got heated between Sean and myself and we had a team member walk in and kind of like observe the, it's like two parents fighting basically, right?
[00:23:11] And, uh, I remember that coaching after you told us and I was like, man, people will not follow volatile leaders. And so there's a responsibility that I started to learn. Like if you are going to lead and if you're going to do it well, that's actually, you're not allowed to do that. Now you can, you can go through your own stuff privately.
[00:23:31] You can, you know, process it there. But if you are in front of the team, that is a non negotiable. It's not allowed if you're going to be a, the leader you want to be. And, um, what started to shift in my thinking, there's a stoic, I read it somewhere along the way. I believe it was Epictetus and I feel like the early days, the first 12 to 24 months, we were just getting bombarded, personnel issue, such and such sent me an email.
[00:23:57] I don't like them. And I'd never dealt with this. I'm [00:24:00] like, where is all this drama coming from? And I was getting bombarded oftentimes every morning before I even got there, text messages, all this stuff. It was all new to me, so I was not ready for it. And then it was messing with like, I wasn't sleeping well at night.
[00:24:18] Like I've always slept like a baby. I'd be waking up at two in the morning with my heart beating out of my chest. Like, did I make a mistake? Why did I do this? Did I bite off more than I can chew? And Michael ism here. What I've learned is as an entrepreneur, congratulations, you're normal. Like any entrepreneur that has ever been through any piece of running a business somewhere along the way, they felt this.
[00:24:39] Mm hmm that
[00:24:40] Brad: they're in over their heads and What I started to realize is this is normal. It's part of the process You're getting a bunch of new team members together. They're learning how to work together and Back to the epic Tita story. He has this story about this prize lamp It's either [00:25:00] stolen or falls off the desk and breaks.
[00:25:01] One of those two. Either way, he loves this possession and then it's gone. And he's processing the mental headspace of, now I'm upset, I'm grieving over this thing that I loved and now it's gone. And he said the mental exercise is, Act as if the lamp's already broken. So here's this prize lamp. It's here, it's intact, it's on my desk, act as if it's already broken and two things will happen.
[00:25:29] Number one, you'll appreciate it more while it's there. And number two, when it eventually does break, you won't be near as upset because you've already gone through what that's going to feel like. And where I draw the comparison as an entrepreneur, if you're going to build any business of substance, it's going to require more than just you.
[00:25:48] So more people. More people, regardless of how amazing your culture is or how well you try to over communicate or all that, there's more personalities, there's going to be more conflict. It's just [00:26:00] part of the game you signed up for. And so rather than get completely emotional or in over your head or like, Oh my gosh, what do I do?
[00:26:07] I'm dealing with the new fire of the day. Now I just know it's part of the new game that I'm playing. And if there's not a personnel issue today, There could be one tomorrow or the day after or the next week and having a process, which Michael, you've coached us a ton on of like, nobody should ever be surprised if they're transitioned out there's here's the expectations of the team.
[00:26:30] Here's what it means to meet those expectations. If you're not meeting those expectations, give them feedback from a place of. love and a place of truth, right? That balance. You're there to coach and hopefully lead them down the right path and know that some of them will go down that path and some will not.
[00:26:44] But you're going to do your best to help lead them there. And I just think it was like a maturity that had to happen because in the early days we were just absolutely getting bombarded. And it was many days we didn't think we were going to survive.[00:27:00]
[00:27:08] Michael: My seat. And this is true for a lot of people that start businesses. You guys were essentially sales professionals who had to transition into a CEO role. And that's very different. Very. And I think once you guys got that, you really got on the fast track. And things begin to improve. I mean, you hit him head on.
[00:27:30] I want you to talk about a little bit about the role of therapy. Most entrepreneurs I know, and when I say most, I'm talking 99. 9 percent should be in therapy because the stresses are so immense. And when you're under stress, stuff comes out and if you don't deal with that stuff, it will completely explode and derail everything in your life.
[00:27:52] So talk about that. How did that, what was your initial thoughts about therapy and how did you get okay with it? And I know you're a big [00:28:00] advocate for it today.
[00:28:01] Brad: To echo what you just said, every entrepreneur should be in therapy and that's whether or not. They think they need it. Yes. Jocko, who we were fortunate enough to have come speak at one of our trad experiences.
[00:28:15] He has a saying in extreme ownership, his book, there are no bad teams. They're only bad leaders.
[00:28:21] And.
[00:28:22] Brad: Oftentimes what I see with leaders, it's much easier to just say it's them. The reason this isn't working in business is such and such on that team didn't do their job or this person. It's much easier.
[00:28:34] It's easier in life to point the fingers at other people. It's easier to point them at Sarah, my wife, when things aren't working in our relationship. Right. But I think a form of leadership, whether it's just yourself, Through life or leading a business, it's going to be really hard to help others. If you can't help yourself, the stuff that isn't working up here, if you're not checking that, seeing what your blind spots are.
[00:28:58] And I [00:29:00] think therapy needs a rebrand because it has. Negative connotations that have been placed on it from a societal standpoint for some, especially us dudes like, Oh, that's for the week. That's for the people that have mental problems. All of the stories that are out there. One of the things you told me early on, and this, this was in an inner circle conversation in that.
[00:29:22] First mastermind we were in. It was one of, I think your therapist told you this after you resisted after you and Gail were kind of having conversations. And I think it was a little more do business than do life at that point in your world. You said one of the first things that therapist told you is it's the healthy people that come talk to me.
[00:29:40] Yeah.
[00:29:40] Megan (2): And I
[00:29:40] Brad: remember that stuck with me because I had really put you up on a pedestal. I'm like successful CEO, you know, he's got all these things going for him. And when you were vulnerable enough to share, like, no, I don't always have it all together, you know? Married five daughters. I was kind of a workaholic at the time and I resisted when Gail said we should talk to [00:30:00] somebody and so like seeing you Being willing to go on that journey taught me a lesson that it's okay It's acceptable for a guy that I grew up on a farm, right?
[00:30:11] It's rub some dirt on it and move on. That's how you get through stuff. And that taught me a lesson. That was a leadership lesson that it's okay to go talk through your stuff. And then when I did, I did an episode on every entrepreneur should be in therapy of all of the interviews I've ever done in my life.
[00:30:30] I got the most feedback on that one. I had five or six private conversations of people that hit me up and said, dude, that really spoke to me. And I've been thinking about it that I probably should go talk to somebody, whether it was, you know, a spousal thing or whether it was just like the stresses of running a business.
[00:30:47] But I made a lot of referrals to my therapist, Megan, because most people know they're, they're probably like, ah, I really probably should work through this, but there's a resistance there for some reason. And so if anybody's listening to this right now, don't resist it. [00:31:00] Like, To me, the way I frame it, it's just another form of coaching.
[00:31:03] We go get a golf coach, we go get a business coach, we go get a trainer at the gym, like all of these other areas in life of top performers, they get coaching in every other aspect of their life. But the one that's most important in the space between your ears. They don't get coaching on or the relationship their marriage They don't get coaching on and somebody to help them sort through it and give them better frameworks to deal with stuff And it's just kind of silly to me.
[00:31:26] Megan: Yeah, I think it's so helpful to hear somebody in your position share that because I do think it gives other people permission. You know, like we were talking about at the very beginning, we need examples of the double win or doing business and doing life, um, with real people that we can relate to who have all the same struggles we do.
[00:31:48] And I think this again is instructive to that end because the truth is, I think a lot of times, especially in the age of social media, the way that success is perceived, [00:32:00] Is a highlight
[00:32:00] reel,
[00:32:01] Megan: you know, it's it's all the the wins. It's the reels of somebody on stage It's the great outfits. It's the trips It's the people they got to meet and it just looks like it's charmed and magical And for whatever reason we just don't talk enough about the hard parts of it.
[00:32:19] And you know, it's interesting. I was speaking Last week at don miller's business made simple summit that he does and I was talking about kind of like when I became ceo or how I thought success worked and how it actually works. And I really went in thinking success is a formula. And if you just do it right in air quotes, you know, if you just do it right, then you won't have any problems.
[00:32:42] You know, it's, it's really a game of a plus B equals C equals no problems. And if you have problems, it means that you're failing. And like all these other people that don't seem to have any problems, they know something you don't know, they're, they're doing it better, you know? And. I think that was so unhelpful for me and it created so [00:33:00] much shame and anxiety.
[00:33:02] And it really held me back until I realized, no, like problems are the status quo. You will always have problems. You know, this is not a perfect world and hopefully your problems get better as you become more successful. Some of them get harder, you know, some of them get easier. It's not really about.
[00:33:18] eliminating problems. It's about being a person who can better deal with the problems with more wisdom, more self compassion, compassion for others, et cetera, et cetera, resilience. But I'm curious for you, Brad, what did you think before you started triad or maybe at the very beginning, what did you think the formula for success was?
[00:33:38] And what would you say That you understand it to be now.
[00:33:41] Brad: Well, what you just shared resonates a lot with me. So I like to game. I've got two boys, a 14, 13 year old. So that's like father, son time. Now my wife gives me a hard time. She's like, Oh yeah, father, son time. So you can play video games with the kids.
[00:33:54] I get it. But, um, I think video games are an interesting analogy. First off, [00:34:00] my first chapter was kind of single player game. And when Sean and I started triad, we switched to a multiplayer game. Much more complexity. And Michael, I heard you say one of the early triad experiences, you said your impression of a lot of financial advisors out there, their business is built on personalities.
[00:34:19] And I think what's interesting, a lot of charismatic leaders, when it's kind of a small business and it's them, they can get away with some stuff, right? It's like, oh, I'll just kind of talk my way through this problem that presents itself, but it's a single player game. And so as you start to scale a business and now it's a multiplayer game, the complexity starts to go up.
[00:34:38] So like back to what I shared earlier. The complexity had gone up. Now I had a business partner. Now we were building a team and now these, these new like levels in a video game, wow, that level one was really easy. I can pass that with my eyes closed. Oh, boom. I just unlocked level two. Now I keep getting stuck.
[00:34:55] And so. What I've seen as the business has grown, [00:35:00] I heard a business coach say businesses break at 15 people, 75 people, 150 people. And what she was saying is kind of, there's different complexities that present themselves at different team sizes. And we had a lot breaking at 15. We were now expanding past being able to do an all company meeting in one conference room.
[00:35:19] So now we were starting to develop divisions with new complexities. Now we have to grow leaders. And so like, that's kind of how I think about it in my mind, Megan, is it's, it's almost like you're playing a video game. Simon Sinek's thought process is if you're playing the infinite game, the rule is you don't want the game to ever end.
[00:35:35] You just want to stay in the game versus the finite game of play four quarters and the game's over and here's the score. And I think a lot of business owners, they kind of do this annual goal setting where it's like they're playing the finite game. And at Triad, we're trying to really play the infinite game, which is when, if you're truly have a pursuit of helping our team and our Triad members do business and do life, at what [00:36:00] point.
[00:36:00] Is business too good or life too good if you actually integrate those two so they serve each other? So to me, it's the infinite game that ideally we just keep playing And evolving and then as you're unlocking these different levels of the video game with more complexity Some of those problems get easier because oh, we've solved that one five times before no problem.
[00:36:18] We have a great framework And sometimes it's like oh shoot new problem. But hey, if we're solving the same problem, we were a year ago We're not evolving and progressing as a company You So I just, that's kind of my framework. I don't know if that's like my mental hack to get through those when they present themselves, but I just kind of said, Oh, we're, it's a new game as an entrepreneur and I'm going to have to solve new problems as this thing evolves.
[00:36:42] Megan: Well, here's what you said that I love is the meaning behind the problems. So in my world, when I was kind of unconsciously, I had this assumption that if I'm doing it right, there won't be any problems. Problems meant failure to me. That was, that was a, um, a [00:37:00] judgment on my leadership that there were problems and, you know, how successful I was, was determined by how few problems or how many problems I had.
[00:37:09] What I hear you saying is in some ways, the challenge is the reward for going to the next level. Just like if I'm in the gym and I'm doing squats or bicep curls, My goal is not to curl 10 pounds for the rest of my life. My goal is to progressively overload and get stronger. So those little fibers tear and they get stronger and stronger.
[00:37:33] And so if I'm lifting the same weight that I was a year ago, that's actually a negative reflection on me. If that's easy, if it's challenging, it means it's cause I'm growing, you know? And so that, I think that's a really helpful reframe just around the meaning of what are problems.
[00:37:49] Michael: Okay, let's imagine for a moment that somebody is listening to this podcast and maybe they're caught on the hamster wheel of hustle and business is consuming way more of their [00:38:00] life than they think it should, but they don't know how to get off of it because that's kind of the default.
[00:38:05] They just assume that there's no other way. And I'm sure you've got clients that you brought on at Triad that are in this exact situation, but they're attracted to you because they see a different kind of future, a different possibility for a different kind of future. What would you say and how do you coach them?
[00:38:23] How do they regain their life without just basically letting go of their business? And either retiring or settling for less than what they're capable of.
[00:38:32] Brad: That is a very, very big issue in finance, the hamster wheel, because most people in our industry grew up in a business that it kind of, that the story I said, like jump in the deep end and it's like, hope you don't drown a lot of people drown in finance, like a lot of.
[00:38:51] Advisors when they get into this business, they'll have a class of like 20 or 30 and it's typically recruit them right out of college. And it's like grind, like, you know, go do [00:39:00] the sales deal, knock on doors, cold call, you know, any more social media prospecting, all of that. And so it's survival of the fittest, which actually teaches you a lot of bad habits because it's Market sale, market sale.
[00:39:14] And so the hamster wheel at first they have all the time in the world because they have no clients. And then if they start to have success, it's because they went out, they were grinding, they were marketing, marketing, marketing, manufactured the appointments, make the sale. And now they look up a couple of years later.
[00:39:31] And they're like, this wheel's going so fast. I can't get off. And so Ryan, one of the coaches on our team, he said this one time and it really hit with me. So we, we call that the red line of burnout. Sean, my business partner wrote a book, the advisor transformation that like he talks about a lot of this, if anybody wants to go deeper on it, the red line of burnout, the way we look at that.
[00:39:50] And I think it applies to a lot of business. It's this hamster wheel of market. Sell, market, sell, and it's just like this flywheel effect of all I do is run [00:40:00] faster, faster, faster, and I have less time at the end of the day, almost like a victim of your own success. And the, we call it the green line of significance.
[00:40:09] Is building a business in a different way that's bigger than you. Um, that actually empowers more team members. So it's going from a great sales person to a great business owner, to a great CEO. You mentioned earlier, Michael, like we were sales people that then had to a different rule book to play by if we wanted to build a business.
[00:40:29] And so I think the first thing you wrote a book on it. Vision driven leader. It's going to be really hard to build a business bigger than yourself. If you don't have a North star that your team is headed toward collectively. And I do think that was one of the things we did fairly well in the early days of triad.
[00:40:48] Now that has evolved and shifted as we've learned a bit, but we did truly want to build a business that not only blessed our lives. But also our members lives. And so there was [00:41:00] pieces of that playbook we already knew, but we also figured a lot out because as we would work with new people, new problems sort of arise.
[00:41:08] Oh, cool. If we want to get there, we've got to, you know, adjust that. And I think the biggest thing, and this isn't an easy answer, but I think most businesses over index on marketing sales. And ops obviously to follow through on those promises and they under index on culture and vision The team is fragmented.
[00:41:34] They don't know where they're headed and then they don't focus enough Bill self said it so the the coach of the ku jayhawks won a few national championships. He said this he said My most talented teams have not won the national championships Like, if you look at just sheer raw talent, I've had more talented teams that did not win national championships.
[00:41:56] My teams that won the national championships were the teams that [00:42:00] had good talent, but they played the best together. And I, like, I think that's a great analogy for culture. You can have incredibly talented people and we've had like 10 out of 10 skillset people. That were ones or twos on culture. And it was an absolute disaster.
[00:42:16] It was a cancer that spread within the business. We didn't do this well early on, but we've gotten better with time. The moment we see people are not a culture fit, it's start to try to course correct that, you know, Hey, here's where you're falling short. Here's a blind spot, pour into them, coach them. But if they can't get on board culture wise.
[00:42:36] It's always an ugly ending if you don't get them off the bus. And so that's, I'd say that's the biggest thing is if you want to build a business bigger than you, you better focus a ton on vision, a ton on culture.
[00:42:48] Michael: What would you say to a leader? Who's not the founder, not the owner, but maybe they're running a department or division kind of like you were in your prior job where maybe you don't have as much discretion.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] And you're trying to operate in that culture, but you don't want to just cave into the demands of the hustle culture, but you've also got to keep your job. What would you say to those people?
[00:43:11] Brad: I think it's harder if you're not the founder. Entrepreneur, but not impossible. I agree. Part of it depends on the business and the autonomy you're given as a leader.
[00:43:21] We do this thing, um, at trad, we call them trad bad words, trad curse words. And I think back to, to culture, you can create a culture on a team, even if it's a microcosm of the bigger organization. And one of the things I've found, like it started as kind of a. A joke, almost like a tongue in cheeks or a joke.
[00:43:41] We're like a try to, we don't do events, we do experiences. And what we thought about is what we wanted to create. So Covey seven habits start with the end in mind. Okay. What are we trying to create? We're trying to create experiences where our members come together and have massive breakthroughs, life changing things that they look back and [00:44:00] they're like, wow, those two days changed my business trajectory.
[00:44:02] They changed my life trajectory. Okay. So what is that? That's, that's like a life changing experience. That's not an event. An event is you go to a hotel and it's forgettable and it all blends together and you're like, I've been to hundreds of events. You know, if you've been in business a certain number of years.
[00:44:16] And so, One of the ways we started to create that, which I think could apply to somebody running a team that's not necessarily the entrepreneur or the owner, is start to look at the words you use and the language, and we say language creates. Uh, I know we have a mutual friend in Chris Smith, he's big on this, and we started to craft language inside of Triad that spoke to who we wanted to be, even if we weren't quite there yet.
[00:44:40] We want leaders, we don't want managers. But or bosses boss is a bad word. Oh, who talks like, Oh, I love my boss. That's like a king on a throne. People want leaders. Hey, I'll follow a leader, but a boss or a manager, you know, and I'm, I know some of those terms you have to just use in business, but, um, we started to create [00:45:00] language around who we wanted to be.
[00:45:01] And that has really influenced the culture. Love that. I heard another one, a new one the other day is, and this was the Savannah Bananas, Jesse Cole, I think is the, the owner there. He said, we don't train here trainings for dogs. We coach humans, get coached dogs, get trained. I thought that was a really cool one.
[00:45:22] Megan: That's fantastic. I love that.
[00:45:24] Michael: One of the things I've been saying to my coaching clients a lot, and I've said it to you guys, you know, as a leader, it's important to see yourself as a coach because people are not there. You know, to just for some, for somebody, for you to offload stuff too, that you don't want to do.
[00:45:40] Now that's part of it. That's delegation. I get that. But you know, I feel like my job, I'm a steward of those people and my job is to coach them to greater levels of performance so that they realize their potential. And that's a completely different mind shift. And my friend Daniel Harkavy has written a [00:46:00] book on that called Becoming a Coaching Leader, which I really, really value.
[00:46:06] In fact, We have a mastermind group subset of triad and you were in the meeting right with me earlier this week and I recommended that book and I think for a lot of people that's a major paradigm shift to see yourself as a coach when you're really leading and Arthur Brooks says, you know, now we got this big thing about coaching.
[00:46:23] He said, we used to call that a leader. But it's the same thing.
[00:46:26] Brad: I'll piggyback Brian Miles, which was another intro you made. So former CEO of belay him and his wife, Shannon. And he told me a story back to, you said something stewardship, I think is a really important idea as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, it was when he had first a year or two into belay.
[00:46:44] So he'd left his corporate job to go start the business. And he was. Climbing a mountain with some CEO friend, he didn't tell me the name, but it was some guy that had been super successful publicly traded company and had retired. He said he was on the side of this mountain and he said, yeah, I'm, I [00:47:00] really am, I'm fortunate to own my business.
[00:47:02] And this CEO friend said, you don't own your business. And Brian's like, what do you mean? Yeah, that's why I quit my job. I own the business. He's like, no, you own the business when you're not required to be there and show up to work. That's when you truly own the business right now, you're working in the business.
[00:47:18] And. Out of that story, what, what came of it is he said, as CEO, I look at this now as a stewardship. I have a season of where I'm steering the ship, but someday that season will be gone and I will pass it to the next in line. So I think if you're going to build a business bigger than you, you have to change your mentality of this is my business.
[00:47:38] I own it. I'm the CEO. And that's kind of like ego driven for a lot of people I've seen. And if you flip it and you say, I'm just a steward here. to serve the team and steer this business to the best of my ability with all the help I can get. And someday that season will be over. It actually completely shifts that ego driven nature that I think a lot of times gets a hold of [00:48:00] CEOs.
[00:48:00] And so I, I look at it as a season of stewardship and I hope that season's really long, but if someday I'm not able to steer the ship or Sean's not able to steer the ship to the best of his ability, it will be time for the next in line.
[00:48:20] Megan: I think there's something about stewardship that's just inherently about humility.
[00:48:25] Megan (2): Yeah,
[00:48:25] Megan: and it's inherently connected to a reckoning with our mortality with the finite nature of our own abilities and expertise and humanity in general. I think that's a really important concept. I know in my own set of personal values, not our company values, although it is a company value as well.
[00:48:46] I say stewardship is a value and what it means to me is that I increase the value of who. And what has been entrusted to me, it changes how I approach stuff. You know, I think about my kids and this is like, uh, an easier [00:49:00] example sometimes to understand. It is faster and easier and less frustrating for me to do a lot of stuff myself than to let my kids do it.
[00:49:09] And yet, like I have Naomi, our five year old oftentimes at the counter helping me with something with dinner. And it's my spiritual work to breathe my way through that, because I'm kind of like, I just would like to do it myself and have the quiet and, and whatever. And yet. At that moment, it's not just about making dinner, for example.
[00:49:26] It's about growing her and giving her the opportunities to learn and connect, of course. But I think that's true in our businesses as well. It takes more time and it can be frustratingly slow to work on that process of what our mutual friend Ian Cron calls growing fruit on other people's trees. It's just easier to grow fruit on your own tree.
[00:49:45] We have total control of it, but it's not nearly as rewarding and it sure doesn't last.
[00:49:50] Michael: So true. I
[00:49:50] Megan: appreciate you bringing that idea up.
[00:49:52] Michael: Okay, Brad, I just want to say this. I think you need to write a book. I was thinking the same thing. [00:50:00] And we need to have a conversation about that. As a former publisher, I could probably help you with this, but we would have you back on and promote the heck out of it because I think you're such a student of life and you're so eager and you're learning and so humble about it.
[00:50:17] And I just think there's so many life lessons that you've gathered already. At from my vantage point, a relatively young age, uh, that, you know, it's time it's time.
[00:50:27] Brad: Well, there was once a guy that said I should start a podcast and that worked out. Okay. So I should probably just take your advice on that. I it's, I I'm humbled by that, Michael.
[00:50:36] Thank you. I've learned so much from you. And so, uh, and that's, I, I came into our relationship really like, Oh, this will be great for business. And it was. But it was exponentially more valuable in life. I'm a better husband. I'm a better dad today because of a lot of the lessons you shared. So I really appreciate that.
[00:50:56] And Megan, I've learned a lot from you too, just, I haven't done coaching [00:51:00] directly with you. Like I haven't, but yeah, it's been incredible. I'm a better version of myself because of you. So I appreciate that. Thank you. It means the world to me. We have three
[00:51:09] Michael: questions that we like to ask at the end of every podcast.
[00:51:12] These aren't trick questions. But, uh, this is kind of a lightning round. I think you do the same thing on your podcast, right?
[00:51:17] Brad: Yeah, I, uh, I was kind of inspired by Tim Ferriss, kind of the lightning questions at the end.
[00:51:22] Megan: Yeah. First question, Brad. What is the biggest obstacle for you right now in getting the double win?
[00:51:29] Brad: I think the biggest thing as we continue to scale at Triad, I think there's some easy ones that have helped me. Um, having an executive assistant Brooke in my life that has been incredibly powerful in just managing my calendar. So I put, The top priorities at the top, which for me is family before anything else.
[00:51:49] But I think as triad grows and scales, uh, we're in a phase now as we reach around a hundred team members where we're really growing divisions that need true leaders. And so I'd say the [00:52:00] biggest thing getting in the way is hiring great talent and adding them to the team. And so I've, I've kind of switched.
[00:52:07] My thought process is we're always in the pursuit of great talent, like a sports team. If there was a great person on the market and you had a gap on the team for that role, you would always be in talent acquisition if you're going to win championships. So that's kind of the way I look at it at triad is we're always looking to hire incredible talent that fits the, obviously the, the roles we're trying to fill as we grow.
[00:52:29] Michael: The second
[00:52:29] Brad: question
[00:52:30] Michael: is, how do you personally know when you've got the double win?
[00:52:34] Brad: I think too often in life, business and life, or the double win, it's a tug of war. It's in order to be successful in business, I have to sacrifice life in order. Oh, I, I really want to show up as a better husband and dad.
[00:52:49] Okay. Well, let's just kind of go status quo on business for a little bit and just kind of coast while we focus more on life. So it's a tug of war or a teeter totter where you give up one day to get the other. [00:53:00] And what I've tried to do is just integrate. To where good example, uh, there's a Chicago trip for triad to go up there.
[00:53:10] And so I checked with Sarah, I'm like, Hey, you want to do a weekend trip to Chicago couples trip, you want to take the kids where you think we could fly up on a Saturday, Sunday, I'll do a business meeting on Monday. So there's, there's no rules that say you can't do that. One of the reasons our Founders Retreat, we call it the DBDL Founders Retreat.
[00:53:28] Most entrepreneurs, I think, number one, we filtered our community for pretty good humans. So I find great humans actually want to be good spouses or good parents. And so if you just set up the formula where you can do both, our Founders Retreat's amazing. We have more kids there than we do adults and it's an absolute blast.
[00:53:46] And so you can actually accomplish both. There's no rule that says you can't if it's, if the format is right.
[00:53:51] Megan: That's awesome. Okay. Last question. What is one ritual or routine that you rely on to do what you do?
[00:53:58] Brad: So there's a [00:54:00] book that really hit me pretty hard. Um, Peter Bartlett, I'm trying to remember the name, not fade away was the name of it.
[00:54:08] And so this was a guy wrote it like in his last year of life. He was a super successful, uh, TV exec. I think he like helped create BET and like some of the. networks that used to be really big, but he came down with terminal cancer. And so it was like the last year of his life. He was a parent. He had done some really big business things, but there was a quote in there.
[00:54:27] He said, you can make all the dough in the world, but if you sacrifice your health and the pursuit of that, you're cutting yourself a really lousy deal. And. I see a lot of people in a pursuit of money, sacrifice everything else, marriages, health, their personal health, like, go down the list, addictions that come with that, alcoholism, drug use, infidelity, and they're over indexing on one thing and leaving the rest behind.
[00:54:58] And so back to like, I, I've [00:55:00] really found when I'm at my best version of myself, I feel good about my health. I'm hitting the gym in the mornings. I'm eating fairly clean. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs, like we've got one body in this life and you better take care of it. You can go make all the money in the world, but if you're not around to enjoy it, you're kind of focusing on the wrong thing.
[00:55:19] So that's the one that I really try to. And Sarah's the same way. We try to instill that in our kids that just, you know, live a healthy lifestyle, work out, stay active.
[00:55:28] Michael: All right, buddy. Thank you so much. This has been a great interview. I feel like we could have talked for another couple of hours, but thanks, man.
[00:55:36] I mean, you're such a great friend and I just admire you and Sarah, what you've built, what you've created, what you and Sean have created. It's inspiring, which is why you need to write a book. So we'll talk about that more.
[00:55:49] Brad: We'll add that to the list. Appreciate it. I've really enjoyed the conversation. So thanks, Michael.
[00:55:53] Thanks, Megan. Love every conversation we ever have. Great.
[00:55:56] Megan: Thanks, Brad.
[00:55:57] Brad: See you soon. All right. Till next time.[00:56:00]
[00:56:11] Michael: Okay. So that was fun.
[00:56:13] Megan: That was really fun. You know, like you said, we've known Brad for a long time and you now work with him very closely, Brad and Sean, his partner. But I just find him. So wise and humble and thoughtful, which I think we need more of that in the world of business and a lot of a lot less like, you know, chest pounding bro culture, for lack of a better way to say it, you know, where everything is, seems like it's all up into the right.
[00:56:41] Michael: Well, you know, the other thing too, is the ones that get the best results, because I coach how I coach. And there's some disparity in the results.
[00:56:50] Yeah. But
[00:56:51] Michael: I can point to the fact that my three biggest clients, when I say biggest clients, I'm talking about coaching clients that have [00:57:00] businesses that are exploding and lives that are really balanced, are also the most humble and teachable.
[00:57:07] Yeah. I mean, literally, if I suggest something, Like they probably shouldn't even do this, but like they write it down and they're on it. They're doing it, right? And then you know occasionally get some clients that are a little bit more resistant kind of think they have it figured out And they just don't see the results because they're not personally growing At the rate they need to
[00:57:26] Megan: you know, it's funny Um, we have told our kids joel has told our kids for many years that he has this little saying he says knowledge Is the enemy of learning?
[00:57:33] Michael: Yes
[00:57:34] Megan: And it's like, you know, you see this, it's so obvious in kids, but like, you know, when they think they're experts and everything, then they can't be open to new ideas and grow, uh, they're really holding themselves back. And I think that's just as true in business as it is in, in raising kids. I think it's a good lesson for all of us that when we're willing to be humble, question our assumptions, be open to outside feedback, that's when we really grow.
[00:57:58] Michael: I agree. Well, there's so [00:58:00] many takeaways. From what Brad said, and he was so pithy in saying them, but I think sort of the wisdom he saw and his vulnerability and sharing the challenge they faced as they grew as a business and that you have to continue to play a different game because at different levels, the rules change.
[00:58:22] And it's a completely different game and it's more complex and all that. But, you know, I've had a, had the opportunity to watch them front row seat to see them navigate through that. And, you know, it's always initially rocky and has been for us too, but they just hang in there and make it work. And I think, I don't know what level they're in now in their growth, but if I told you the numbers and I'm not going to tell the numbers, but they, you'd be astonished,
[00:58:46] Megan: the level
[00:58:46] Michael: of business that they've been able to do in four years.
[00:58:49] Megan: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And I loved that reframe. I think that was my biggest takeaway from the conversation that reframe around problems as [00:59:00] being really challenges that are the results or the reward for our success. And it just means you've gone to another level. You know, I think it's easy. To forget that the most successful people, you know, are probably as far as they've ever been.
[00:59:16] And that's true for somebody like Tim cook or Jeff Bezos. And that's true for you and me and everybody else. It's like, yes, we bring relevant experience hopefully to the table, but in, in some way, shape or form in ways, big or small, we are all as far as we've ever been, which means we're all learning.
[00:59:33] We're all making mistakes. And we have to be okay with that. You know, if we expect to do it perfectly, the only way we could do it perfectly is to do the same thing over and over and over again till you get to a level of mastery that you can kind of do it in your sleep. But you're probably not growing a whole lot at that point.
[00:59:47] So it's really a good thing.
[00:59:49] Michael: You know, one of the things, unfortunately, we didn't get to spend much time on. Brad mentioned it in passing, but is the importance of culture, but I can tell you as being part of his culture and [01:00:00] observing it, that's like their number one thing.
[01:00:03] Megan: Yeah.
[01:00:03] Michael: They have put the cult back in culture.
[01:00:06] In a good way,
[01:00:07] Megan: not a, not a creepy way, in a good way.
[01:00:10] Michael: But seriously, I mean, they have such raving fans. And whether it's their employees or it's their clients, cause I go out to all these amazing experiences that they create. It's something bigger than business. It's like a movement. And I've come back and shared with you after I've attended their experiences.
[01:00:26] I said, what I really want to do with full focus and with the double win idea, to me, it's about creating a movement.
[01:00:34] Megan (2): You know,
[01:00:34] Michael: I'm not here just to sell more products or sign up more clients. What I'm here is to start a movement that changes. the way that at least Americans, but probably internationally about the way we, the difference in the way we think about business.
[01:00:51] Megan (2): And
[01:00:51] Michael: Brad's inspired a lot of that. He's, he and Sean are living that and demonstrating it in an extraordinary way. That's very [01:01:00] inspirational.
[01:01:01] Megan: That's the kind of thing people want to be a part of. If you're really serious about attracting top talent, it can't just be a financial opportunity or, you know, a bigger opportunity of some kind.
[01:01:11] It's. Got to meet some deeper need. And I think that's what he's really figured out how to do in a very authentic way. That has a lot of integrity. And I think that's a big secret to why they've been able to be as successful as they have been.
[01:01:23] Michael: And I love that he's done it in an industry where it's not done.
[01:01:26] Megan: That's right.
[01:01:27] Michael: And where the status quo is, you know, like the opposite of this, because what a lot of people don't know about financial advisors is they are hardcore salespeople. It's a very sales driven process. And yes, it has to do with financial planning, but it has to do about acquiring new clients.
[01:01:43] That's how you grow. And it's true for every professional. But it inspires me to see that they are so committed to, as they called do business, do life. And the double win that, uh, they're not willing to, to compromise on that. And yet all that's happened [01:02:00] is their businesses scaled like a rocket ship.
[01:02:03] Megan: It's awesome.
[01:02:03] Very
[01:02:03] Michael: cool. Well, guys, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. Do us a favor, review this episode, rate it on wherever you listen to podcasts. That'll help us to get the word out and let the podcast rise in the ranking so that it gets more visibility. And we would be eternally grateful if you just take a two minutes to do that.
[01:02:23] It's easier than you think. And it's so helpful. We'll see you next
[01:02:26] week.