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'I love exercise. It's a massive part of my life...and I was reading all this stuff online saying you can't run, you can't do this or that. And for me, that would be like ripping my legs off. That's how it felt.'
One woman’s mission to end the stigma around leaks and lumps after childbirth. Honest chat about incontinence, prolapse and pelvic pain. Not a trampoline in sight. Hosted by Helen Ledwick.
Hi. I'm Helen, and this is Why Mums Don't Jump, busting taboos about leaks and lumps after childbirth. All the stuff that happens to your pelvic floor that no one ever talks about, incontinence, prolapse, pelvic pain, problems that affect millions of women, 1 in 3. I'm one of them. I have a prolapse.
Helen:My pelvic organs fell out of place after the birth of my second child, And if you had told me back then that I would be speaking about this stuff out loud, I would have told you to give your head a wobble. Hi. How are you? How are you, bits? Welcome to series 5.
Helen:What? I remember when I first started this podcast in 2020, and people kept asking me how I was gonna fill an entire season with conversations about pelvic floor dysfunction. And here we are 4 years, 4 seasons, and one book later. And there's still so much to say. So if you're new, I'd really recommend skipping back and listening to some of the previous episodes after this one.
Helen:There's loads out there, and they're all free, and it's still all extremely relevant. Good place to start, maybe, I mean, the very first episode, I share my own story, and the second episode goes through the basics of lumps and leaks after childbirth with the physiotherapist, Katie. And then after that, I mean, just jump in wherever it takes your fancy. So, yeah, get stuck in. It's all still really current, really relevant, and loads more to come.
Helen:A quick update from me on the pro lapse front. I can I can never remember where we're up to, but I'm still doing all the things? A bit of running, bit of strength work, bit of yoga, full disclosure. I did have 1 or 2 leaking incidents during a couple of runs recently, which, yeah, I was pretty gutted about because it's not something that really happened before. So that was a bit of a nudge to get back on the pelvic 4 exercises.
Helen:And I think it was just a blip because it's been better since. I mean, god. Just when you thought it was safe. But on we go, on we go. And I've got some awesome guests coming up over the next few weeks, more brilliant and brave women sharing their experiences of pelvic floor dysfunction and, of course, the expert voices we all need to help us to understand what on earth's going on.
Helen:I'd love to tell you more, but you're just gonna have to wait. Season 5 of why moms don't jump is brought to you by Eye Medicare Pelvic Health Naturally. The team at Eye Medicare are passionate about improving quality of life for patients with pelvic health problems, And they supply products that are safe and easy to use as part of your rehab journey. Products like the Euphemia bladder support, a reusable vaginal pessary for stress incontinence, helping you to stay active without worrying about leaks. Made from a soft, flexible silicone, ephemia is widely available on NHS prescription as well as through the affiliate shop on the why moms don't jump website, where you'll also find a discount code.
Helen:Check it out. Today's guest is Holly Pudifat, also known on Instagram as Holly and Thea. She's a content creator from Leeds. She's mum to a toddler, Thea, and she hosts the podcast, Me, Myself, and Mumlife. Holly found out she had prolapse in October last year, 2 years after her daughter was born.
Helen:And like so many of us, she'd never heard of it. She was terrified about what it would mean, especially as someone with a huge passion for exercise. But she has grabbed the proverbial bull by the horns, and you'll see what I mean. But before we get to it, we mentioned a couple of things during our chat that might be new to you. I'm thinking of hyperpressives and maybe pessaries.
Helen:So if you're not sure what that's all about, please check the show notes for episodes that cover those things in more detail. And as always, please keep in mind that neither of us are medical professionals, so don't take anything you hear as medical advice. So without further ado, here's Holly.
Holly:So, I had my daughter 2 years ago or two and a half years ago now, and I thought I'd made a pretty good recovery, to be honest, despite having quite a traumatic birth experience. I did think I've recovered quite well, but when it's your first and your only experience, I think sometimes it's hard to know how well or not you have recovered because you don't know you've got nothing to compare it to. But it was the end of October last year when I know if something just didn't feel right, basically, we'd been out all morning. I've been carrying Thea a lot. She was going through a bit of a clingy phase, and I'd just recently finished my period.
Holly:And I got home, and I honestly thought I'd must have forgot I'd left a tampon in. So I was like, oh, I'm just gonna run upstairs and, take it out. This was, like, a couple of days late, so I was a bit panicky thinking, oh, I hope I haven't left a tampon him for 2 days. Never done that before and I'm like there's nothing there so I'm like shouting my partner can you come and have a look and he's lapping my legs up and he's literally looking for Oliver's up and then like well I can honestly he's like, that's amazing. I know.
Holly:And I'm like, you can't be looking properly, and he's got the iPhone torch and he's like, oh, there's nothing there. Well, that was it.
Holly:I was like, well, what is it then? And up to then, I've not really heard about this condition. So I didn't for a minute think, oh, I've had a prolapse. It was just like something's not right. And then that was a Sunday, so I spent, like, all that day and night googling it and realized it probably was that or it could be.
Holly:So then I went to see the doctor. Thankfully, they got me in on the Monday, so I didn't have to wait too long wondering what was going on, and that's when my diagnosis was confirmed.
Helen:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Helen:What was that experience like? Was that was that helpful to to see someone so early?
Holly:Yeah. I mean, it it was for me because I I quite like certainty. So if I'd have been 2 weeks waiting, I don't know. I'd have gone out of my mind. Mhmm.
Holly:I think one of the things that I panicked about straight away was I I love exercise. It's a massive part of my life. All of my best friends exercise with me. My partner does. It's our life.
Holly:And I was thinking like reading this stuff online saying you can't run, you can't do this, you can't, and I was like, that for me, which maybe other people would be able to relate to because they're not as active, it was it would be literally like ripping my legs off, you know, that's how it felt. So the fact I was able to go see somebody the next day even though I didn't have the best experience with the GP, it helped me then make the next steps was really important. That's because the stuff you read on Google around it is scary, really is. And, yeah, I've got I sort of stopped googling stuff once I'd had the diagnosis, and I was like, right. I know what I'm dealing with, and I can go and take the next steps.
Holly:So, that was definitely helpful for me, and I'm I'm just grateful my doctors have a system where if you ring on the day, you can usually get in. So
Helen:Mhmm. When you say you didn't have the best experience, what what sort of thing happened?
Holly:So I was really emotional going into the appointment, and I don't go to the doctors that often, I'm generally really healthy, and it was a female that I saw, I didn't request that because I wasn't that bothered but it was a female and as soon as this went in you know I was getting a bit upset and she's like I I don't understand why you're crying like why are you crying? So just lacking empathy completely and then it's quite common. It's not the end of the world, you know, just I was like, well, it is to me. And then she did the examination. Again, I'm I am in hindsight grateful for some of this because I know some people don't even get examined and some people don't have the knowledge to even diagnose, but she said oh yeah you have got a prolapse but not what type nothing else just you have got a prolapse.
Holly:Sat back down in the seat just need to stop exercising, stop running, try not to lift your daughter, try not to carry her, and just start doing more pelvic floor exercises even though I
Holly:told her I already did kegels quite
Holly:a lot. And I said, so you're not gonna refer me anywhere? There's nothing else you can do? No. That's it.
Holly:If it gets worse, and these are the ways it could get worse, come back and see us, and that was literally it. So I was sort of, like, sent out of the door with not much more information than I went in other than like a confirmation but then I was literally like right so I can't pick Athira who was coming up for 2 doesn't understand anything. I was just like, because he's just a math. So at that point, I did literally think, oh my god, my life's over. What am I gonna do?
Helen:Yeah. No. That exactly that. Don't put your kids up. Don't exercise.
Helen:Yeah. Off you go. Don't worry about it. It's all fine. It's not fine.
Holly:And just saying it it it's common. No. It's common. Loads of people have this. Do they?
Holly:I mean, I've never heard of anyone that's got it. I was 36 at the time. Like, I've never heard of anyone that's had this. So I'm glad she thinks it's common. I don't, and I can't relate.
Holly:I've got no one. I just can't talk to anyone. I I felt isolated. I didn't I literally didn't know anyone that had this condition, so it was really isolating.
Helen:And then for a lot of people, that that's just it then. You you go home, you follow the advice, and you you don't lift your kids, maybe, and you stop doing your exercise, and you feel really, really sad, but not you. You've really thrown the kitchen sink at this, haven't you, haven't you?
Holly:Yeah.
Helen:What did you do, Holly?
Holly:I I am a bit like that in life. I'm like no barriers too big for me to get over, that's my kind of like mindset on stuff. So basically what I did was, honestly, I I feel like I was, like, in in hindsight a bit manic about it.
Helen:Yeah.
Holly:So I was literally trying to find, like, a gynecologist that I could go and see to find out more information and I was literally searching all over Yorkshire, Manchester, anywhere that would have availability because even private people were booked up like so far ahead.
Holly:I was like, I'll pay whatever. I was thinking we won't go on holiday this year. Whatever needs to be done, I'll see somebody type thing. And I managed to get an appointment for, like, the end of that week to go and see a gynecologist who, was so much better, so much more helpful. He ex he examined me, explained what type of prolapse it was, the prognosis, what my options could be, talked about pessaries.
Holly:He mentioned surgery if that became necessary later. And he was just amazing, like, just poles apart experience. And he said, look, it's quite mild in the in the grade of prolapses. To me, it's not mild, but to him, he was saying, you know, it is. And I recommend you know if you can go and see a physio or get a referral at this stage and just get some advice around how you're doing your pelvic floor exercises.
Holly:So I went ahead and did that, but all of this has been self funded. So my appointment with him was just a one off and it wasn't actually that expensive, but then I've paid for my physio and stuff just because I didn't wanna go back to the NHS. I'd had a bad birth experience, bad aftercare, a bad GP experience, and for me, if it means like going out less for less meals or cutting back on other elements of life to pay that money for the physio every few weeks, it was worth it. And she has been worth her weight in gold. Like I've spoke to a couple of different women's health physios since then because I've also had a pet through which we can maybe talk about later.
Holly:But for me, there's no one more experience in this field than women's health physios. Like, they they just seem to deal with it day in and day out. They've seen it, lived experience, and she was literally like, no. You don't need to stop exercising, and we will get you back to where you were. She was like my biggest cheerleader and she has been probably not just physically but mentally helped me so much over the last sort of 7, 8 months and I can't really thank her enough for everything that she's done to bring my confidence back to where I am today with it.
Helen:What was that conversation like? Do you remember when when you heard from her that actually, no. You don't need to stop exercising? Because I know, like, you you said that's a big part of your life, and I I see on Instagram, you know, you you really train properly. So what what was that like to hear that?
Holly:I I was like, first, I thought she she must be wrong because I thought, you know, how can that be?
Helen:That's interesting.
Holly:It seemed so, to fly in the face of everything I'd read and what the doctor had said, and the gynecologist was a bit, you know, it it didn't really want to say either way on that. So I just, you know, she was like, no. No. No.
Holly:You you don't. I was like, right. I'm gonna I'll start exercising again then, but I'm gonna drop my weights right down. And she's like, no, Holly. You don't need to do that.
Holly:And she's retrained me all about managing pressure in my pelvic floor, which I just I've had personal trainers over the years. I've attended classes. I've done it, and no one's ever taught me about how to breathe correctly when lifting and how to minimize a pressure on pelvic floor, which is unbelievable now to me in hindsight. Mhmm. But I just don't think they get trained on it.
Holly:I don't think it's a big part of their disqualification and and stuff like that. So through her teaching me all that and understanding how that works, I could see why she'd given me that advice about you can get back to exercise. So it I've only just very recently gone back to things like running or anything that's more impactful. Pessary, but before before I got the pessary, I was still able to do quite a lot of exercise under her guidance.
Holly:And every few weeks, I'd go and, like, just check it hasn't got worse. Check it hasn't got worse. Like, in my head, just thinking, I hope I've not done anything to make it worse. And she's like, Holly, it's exactly the same. So, you know that that's always given me that reassurance you know every few weeks just to know that the stuff I'm doing is not making it worse because it felt for me like it came overnight so to me could it get worse overnight?
Holly:That's something I still mentally struggle with a little bit. You know
Helen:Oh, you've hit on so many things there. I'm just like, yeah.
Holly:No. Sorry. Yes. Yes. No.
Helen:Like, even just just that idea of, like, oh, well, I thought she must be wrong because I'd read all this other stuff. You do become someone who just doesn't trust any of the information that you're getting because you you read so much conflicting stuff, and it can be so confusing. And I think the ad the, you know, the official kind of guidance, nice guidelines, and whatever is quite it plays it quite safe in many ways. So then when you actually hear that, you're like, I really wanna believe you because it's so, so important to me. But I'm scared because, yeah, this thing came out of nowhere.
Helen:I've never heard of it, and it's made me feel like I don't trust my body anymore. Like, I'm really broken, and I and I can't do those things. And I'm absolutely terrified that I'm gonna make it worse. So, yeah, when you do fight build trust with a professional in that way, and then you see that they can help you and you can do it in a sensible way, and and and it doesn't you know, it does it won't necessarily get worse, and it can get so much better. That is, that's amazing.
Helen:And for you to have done that in such a short amount of time, like, I think it literally took me years to slowly get my brain to that point and then find people to help.
Holly:I was gonna say as you were talking then what came to mind was, you know, your podcast helped me loads as well. I literally binge listened to every episode within about a week and you had a lot of people on as guests who would return to exercise or physios and it was like oh well more people are saying it so it must be true' so that helped reinforce like you had some really really good guests on that I could relate to as well and that I've followed on Instagram and since interacted with and stuff like that and then, you
Holly:know, it's like, you know what the algorithm's like if you start following people in a certain subject, it throws more at you. So I was like, get you know, probably went into a bit of a research frenzy that lasted for a few months and then just felt like I I thought I know everything there is to know now about prolapse
Helen:I I can't. Like, sometimes I don't even open Instagram in public because I know something's gonna pop up that not everyone's gonna wanna wanna see. Tell me about pessaries. So was it your physio that introduced you to the pessary as well?
Holly:No. So my physio doesn't fit pessaries, and she didn't she doesn't have loads of experience with them. But I was I'm on a, like, a support group on Facebook, and loads of people were talking about them on there. And then I've seen a few people on Instagram. And sometimes, as you'll know, in certain times of the month, you can be more symptomatic
Helen:Yeah.
Holly:Like during your period and stuff like that. Or there's certain points for me. Or sometimes just because I'm either stressed a bit or tired Yeah. I have more symptoms. So I thought it'd be really nice just to have something if it's possible to remove the symptoms because my physio I see all the time felt that I had a constant, like, mind body association to my prolapse.
Holly:I was thinking about it all the time and that that was causing me quite a big, like, anxiety spiral. So I thought if I could get something that removes all symptoms that could help break that cycle, I think it'd be really good for me mentally as well. So I managed to find a lady, another physio, about an hour away. So I this is such a shame because I don't think there's many private pest refitters, and I know that the NHS there are. Yeah.
Holly:The NHS will generally offer the plastic rings and, from all my research, I really wanted to try the cubes. So that's why I went privately for that as well. So yeah, I went to see her and, she just reconfirmed everything my other physio had said so it again just helped me like feel really confident about what I was working on. And, yeah, I got my cue from her. The the appointment that came where I actually fitted it, I was like, she she's put it in, and I'm like, oh, this is great.
Holly:Straight away, it's like all that heaviness is just gone. It's like uplifted. It's like, oh, hang on a minute. I feel like that to myself. And then she said, right.
Holly:You're gonna remove it now, Holly. You need to learn to remove it because it's one that you can take in and out, basically. And I just had a complete meltdown because I think I've got a bit disassociated with that part of my body like I don't I was like I've got I actually had to wear a glove to get it out because I was like I'm not putting my hands in there, just can't. She's like, it's your body, and I'm like, I know, but it just freaks me out. So through that journey and, like, this, I've realized probably some mentally things that have been coping mechanisms for me, like disassociating with that area of my body or, you know, this constant connection with it all the time.
Holly:I feel like Yeah. Going through the pessary journey has really helped me stop that. So when I now wear my pessary, I don't think about my prolapse for long periods of time that I've got it in, which is really good for me mentally as I said. Now I can take it in and out without gloves on and I'm used to it and I know what it feels like down there.
Holly:Before I was just literally not even looking, not touching it, not even doing anything. It was like it wasn't part of me. So I think the pedigree's helped me in more ways than I can probably explain. And people say like I hear it oh I don't want to go down that route and I think, oh my god. Why?
Holly:Because Yeah. The way people put it to me that helps me be convinced, like, just like a sports bra for your pelvic floor. It's like some extra support. And then when I have it in, you know, like, people say, oh, can you feel it? It's it's a bit like a tampon.
Holly:You're almost aware it's there, but it's not something you can really feel. And someone said to me, yeah, but when you first start wearing shoes you can feel that they're on but then you just forget that they're on and, you know, and it's a bit like that. So yeah, I do tend to wear it most days now. I was planning to only wear it sometimes and for exercise, but I just like the fact that when I have it in, I'm, like, back to how I was before all this happened. And it's been great.
Holly:It's like really easy in, out, a bit like a tampon. It's as quick as that. I can't really stress enough how much I sort of advocate now for pessary since that. To the point of my
Helen:I have pessary envy. Is that even a thing?
Holly:My My physio is actually training now in pessaries because I've been going on at how amazing it is. I'm like, there's no one around here. You need to train. She's booked on a course.
Holly:She's like, oh, it's really so good that you've had that sort of experience. So so, yeah, I think, my ideal hope in life now is that, I can manage my prolapse through use of the pessary, and I do lots of high propressives. I found Alice through your podcast as well. Wow, yeah. So she she me and her have worked together and I do my high pressives most days, 6 days out of 7, just for 10 minutes, my pessary and then just management of pressure on the pelvic floor like I've talked about.
Holly:I I hope I can keep it where it is and never need surgery or never need to go down that route because I'm probably symptom free now 80% of the time, which is great. And then the another 20%, the pessary comes in. So I more or less feel like I've got my life back, and I'm I'm so glad for that.
Helen:Yeah. That's so amazing and so inspiring, and I just I love your story because I think that everyone who's listening can kind of take a little bit from it. Even if it's just like if what's going on right now is not working for you and and you and you have got those symptoms, there will be something you can try, at least.
Helen:There's, you know, there's always kind of that hope that you can try something else. And I know, you know, people are on a spectrum with it and some people are in a a worse position than others. But, you know, just even if you've had a bad experience, just try try something else. Try try someone else.
Holly:And the other thing is as well, I think, when I have to sit down and do the high progressives every day, I don't wanna do it. I don't like doing it. I find it boring. I usually end up leaving it till the evening because I'm, like, putting it off putting it off. It but it it's like for me, a small price to pay for the output of it.
Holly:And I think I speak to a lot of people obviously
Holly:through Instagram, and they say, oh, I need to get in a better routine with
Holly:some pelvic floor exercises or whatever. Need to get
Holly:in a better routine with some
Holly:pelvic floor exercises or whatever,
Holly:and I totally get it.
Holly:And I think people can look at me and just think, oh, she's got it all going on, but it's like I really struggle as well to want to do it, to find the time to do it Yeah. To be motivated every day. I'm not, and discipline has to kick in at that point and think, but don't let all the hard work you've done gone to waste. I see this now. It's gonna be my life if I want to maintain, probably may experience some changes to symptoms through menopause and stuff.
Holly:So the more proactive I can be, the better. But, yeah, I don't want anyone to think, oh, well, she I I can't do what she eats, and I'm the same, I'm the one dreading it, I'm the one not wanting to do it but I'll always do it because I know that it's worth it to get the output.
Helen:Yeah and I think that's a really important point to make as well because like, god, all all any of us want when when something like this happens is a quick fix. And, you know, unfortunately, that's not how it works. And you can you can see as many experts as you like and throw as much money at it as you like, but at the end of the day, like, you do have to do that regular work, don't you? And it is really hard to keep that up all the time, and it will be up and down because it's just life in it, and sometimes other things just crop up and take priority. Yeah.
Helen:But if you can carve that out, you can see results.
Holly:And make a routine, you know, just, like, make it part of your routine. But some days, you know, I just have to have a few days off. I'm like, look. Like, I just need a rest from this. I don't want to do it, like, for a few days.
Holly:But like any muscle that you build, you know, nothing bad's gonna happen if you have few days off. But if you have a few months off, it's gonna diminish. So I just try and think of it like that. If I need a few days, I'll take it, but then get back into that routine again soon after.
Helen:And, I mentioned that you've done so much in in talking about it on Instagram because I think, like, a lot a lot of your content before maybe and as as well as is more like lifestyle and and motherhood more generally. Did you worry before you started posting about this on Instagram? Were you embarrassed or worried about how people might react?
Holly:I'm a bit of an external processor, so I post to help myself as much as it as it is it helps other people.
Helen:Totally get that.
Holly:That that's, that's the way I deal with things, you know, I like to talk about things and problems. A lot of people are a bit more insular I think and don't necessarily do that but it helps me But then seeing it helps so many others and I get messages all day every day I'm sure you're the same, saying, oh, thank you for speaking about this. You've made me feel less isolated or can I ask what you've done around this and whatever? Like, that's the reward for for for doing that. But, yes, I do have people from work, males that follow my page and other stuff, and I'm talking about vaginas and periods and sex.
Holly:And I I have sort of worried about that a little bit, but Yeah. I just try and think, look, At the end of the day, this is our anatomy. It's not like it's no different to your arm, your head, your foot, or whatever. And I just I don't want people to be ashamed and embarrassed to talk about it because it's isolating enough as it is. And I just think if I can show that it's okay to talk about it, then I hope that'll inspire others.
Holly:And I wish I'd known about this condition sooner and the chance it could happen. And so if I can raise awareness through my platform of that that might help others, that feels to me like I'm paying forward what I didn't necessarily get, and and that's my motivation for doing it even though it can be a bit cringe. And I think my dad follows my page as well, and I think oh he's gonna read this and he's gonna be like wow I don't know if I wanna see that bit you know it is what it isn't we are just human beings aren't we at the end of the day with with the same anatomy, and we shouldn't be embarrassed.
Helen:No. And I'm sure he's massively proud of you
Holly:as well.
Helen:Thanks to Holly Puddephatt for kicking off season 5 with a bang. You can follow her on Instagram. She's @hollyandthea. And she's absolutely right. We shouldn't be embarrassed.
Helen:Don't be embarrassed. Try not to be embarrassed. It's not always that easy. You've been listening to Why Moms Don't Jump with me, Helen Ludwig. If you have enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe, write a review, and share it in whatever way you feel comfortable.
Helen:Don't forget to sign up for emails for the latest news from me. You can find a link in the show notes or at why moms don't jump.com.
Helen:Why Mums Don't Jump is sponsored by IMEDicare , Pelvic Health Naturally. IMEDicare provides devices and products for pelvic health that are safe and easy to use, helping you to manage your symptoms while you're on the way to recovery. Products like Lumana activewear: fitness leggings and running shorts that have absorbent underwear built in for protection from leaks, whether that's wee or sweat or period blood or discharge, and the leggings have a phone pocket, which is music to my ears.
Helen:You can find Lumana via the affiliate shop on the Why Mums Don't Jump website, where you'll also find a
Helen:discount code. Thanks to the team at IMEDicare.