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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Denalee Bell:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the SoapyBox. I'm Denalee Bell. This is Nicole Hreniuc and Tyler Bell. Today we're talking about boundaries, which is going to be a super interesting topic because Tyler's my son, Nicole's his girlfriend. So, interesting dynamic as we share our stories in forming boundaries.
Tyler Bell:
I feel bold for accepting this position right now.
Denalee Bell:
It is. And you are invited, both of you, to share anything about me or if I've overstepped boundaries with you as we go on. I think it's fair. I think we can all learn, and my feelings won't be hurt. I will only grow from it.
Tyler Bell:
Heard that.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. If you don't believe me, that's okay. So, I'm going to start off with just telling you my story and my journey on wanting to improve my boundaries. As with most people, if you have a lack of boundaries or find yourself to be a little bit boundaryless, which I was, I lacked boundaries. I let people cross mine, and I also crossed people's.
Tyler Bell:
I think most people do.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, I think a lot of people do.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I think everybody does.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, it happens a lot in childhood, in your formative years when you are not taught boundaries correctly. And it can happen in a dysfunctional family. It can happen if you were neglected. It can happen if you have an authoritarian parent. There's so many ways this can happen. Even if it didn't happen in your childhood, maybe you had trauma. Sexual trauma is a huge issue for people who suffer from boundary issues. So, I think part of the reason is because you don't know where your body begins and another ends, and you don't know how to give permission properly. It creates a lot of issues. But in my situation, my parents didn't have great boundaries and their parents didn't either. It was kind of a generational thing. So, I didn't develop the skills to say no to people properly, because I wanted to be loved.
My parents were also divorced, and there was other issues that factored into it. But I found early on that if I wanted someone to like me or love me, I did things to please them, and I didn't interfere with some of their emotions. So, I wouldn't want somebody to be angry, so I would comply or I wanted them to love me. So, I would do things, favors, buy them lunch, do different things to help make them love me. But over time, it wasn't so hard when I was younger, but as I got older, I found myself really tired, overwhelmed, frustrated, and I knew something was wrong. And a friend also knew something was wrong because she gave me the book, Boundaries. That was actually several years ago, I want to say probably 15 years ago. And I started reading the book and I tossed it aside. I thought, "She just doesn't get me."
Tyler Bell:
Nobody wants to-
Denalee Bell:
She doesn't get me.
Tyler Bell:
... know they're wrong in boundaries or doesn't even understand it. You know what I mean? When they're actually wrong.
Denalee Bell:
And I was like, "She doesn't get who I am. I'm just a free spirit. I don't do well with structure."
Tyler Bell:
I think I've said that to you before.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. I just don't-
Tyler Bell:
You just don't get me.
Denalee Bell:
I don't deal well with structure. I don't need these kind of rules. This is just my personality. But unfortunately, as time went on, things began to progress. The anxiety got deeper, the depression got worse and longer, and the frustration, my relationship started to fail. My marriage wasn't doing well, and my children suffered.
Tyler Bell:
That self-sacrificing saint wasn't sustainable.
Denalee Bell:
It wasn't. I was overwhelmed, tired, and frustrated. I was taking the responsibilities of other people. I wasn't completing any of my goals. I wasn't doing the things I wanted to do in life because I was so busy helping other people with their emergency, with their current crisis. And I thought that was my responsibility or duty, especially as a Christian. I thought, "Okay, I have more. I should give more. I have the ability, I should help." And it was a lie because I was taking people's responsibilities, their emotional responsibilities. "Okay, you're lonely. I'd better feed that. Oh, your marriage is in crisis. I'd better help you." Whatever somebody was going through, I was there to help. Some of them asked, some of them didn't. I inserted myself a lot too in people's lives because I thought, "Oh, I can see this. They need my help. They need a savior." I didn't know at that time that I was taking the place of Jesus.
Not really because I couldn't, but I wanted to help and I wanted to save them, and I didn't focus on my own problems in my own life because I was focused on theirs. So, it was very overwhelming because I didn't get to complete anything. I didn't get to live the life I was created for. Then I thought maybe this was my role in life. I'm a support agent for everyone. Until I started having crazy fantasies, "Okay, I'm going to leave the country. The only way I can get a break is to leave the country." I had fantasies of being in a hospital. I thought, "Okay, if I broke an arm or if I injured myself, I could get a break." And then, I even got all the magazines about where I could live in another country, and I thought, "Maybe just a break for a year, and then everything would be okay."
Tyler Bell:
Just run away from problems.
Denalee Bell:
And then, a family member got sick, and I thought, "Oh, I can't ever leave because she may need me." And so, then I was driving down the road after a real heavy dose of helping people, and it was raining really hard, and I just pressed the gas as fast as I could go. I couldn't even see the road. And I said, "God, please take me, please take me." And He didn't. I have thought about, "What if I would've hurt somebody else on the road that day?" I really wanted to just die, but God didn't take me. But two days later, I ran into this woman who I had actually seen as a therapist before. And again, I thought she just didn't get me the first day. Note to self: when somebody irritates you or a book irritates you, there might be something in it for you. Just a life note.
I went to see her. I just ran into her and I go, "I need to see you." I just knew, I felt like God led her to me. And the first thing she said was, "What makes you think you just can't say no? Why can't you just say no or choose not to do something?" And again, I go, "Oh, I will," because the people pleaser in me wants her to like me. "Oh, you're right. That's a really good idea." And in my head, I'm like, "She just doesn't get it, doesn't get my family. She doesn't get my friends." But as I saw her, I did do EMDR with her, and a lot of trauma was lifted. And that was kind of the beginning of me understanding, I don't have to live this life, even though I didn't start right there, it just opened up the possibility.
I don't have to do this. I would say it once in a while, but I didn't quite live it yet. And then my marriage was really in a bad place probably a couple of years later from that. And I was ready to leave because I was so overwhelmed by making everybody else a priority in my life. And it was of course, my husband's fault. I'm joking. I picked up the book, Boundaries again. And I will say my husband was a huge boundary buster at the time, and he wouldn't let me read the book.
He knew I was going to leave. He knew I was wrong. He knew it was a bad situation, and he wouldn't even just let me read a book. So, I started reading it out loud, and this was the beginning of huge change for us. We read the book, maybe a paragraph or two for three solid days straight, and then we would discuss it. We would discuss ourselves, how I saw myself in the book, how I saw him. He would tell me the same. And it was life-changing because part of the problems when you grow up in a boundaryless house or you have no sense of boundaries, you're like an alien in a new land where you don't quite understand what people are saying. It's like a different language. And I started to understand that this whole feeling of being out of control wasn't his fault.
It was my own damn fault. I was responsible for my own life, and I wasn't taking responsibility for it. I was taking responsibility for so many others, but my own. And so, that was kind of the beginning of change. And I believe it's because truth was in the middle of it, and there was so much truth spoke to each other, but also learning the truth of why I didn't have boundaries and why I was letting people walk on me and why I was taking so much responsibility. And the truth behind it was, is I just wanted people to love me so I was doing things for them. I didn't want to lose relationships, so I feared losing them, and I didn't understand what true love looked like. And so, that was my transition into boundaries. Now, I don't have it all sewn up. I'm still on my journey. And there's a couple people in my life who, it's still hard for me to set firm boundaries with.
Tyler Bell:
But you're darn vigilant now.
Denalee Bell:
I am.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Well-trained.
Denalee Bell:
I am. I am. But I'm-
Tyler Bell:
And you pointed boundaries out everywhere we go, in every movie we watch.
Denalee Bell:
I do.
Tyler Bell:
... every social setting. "They could have used boundaries right there."
Denalee Bell:
I could. So, I'm a student of boundaries.
Tyler Bell:
I could have had boundaries, right there.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. Exactly. So, I guess that's what I wanted to talk about it today, because such a life changer for me. And I know that even, you grew up in a house with me. So, you've had to have had some kind of difficulty along the way with boundaries. So, when I talked about doing this podcast with you, I want to know, have you noticed a time in your life or was there a defining moment where you wanted to improve your boundaries or where you noticed there was a problem?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Growing up, I saw you as the example for boundaries. And I'm not going to completely blame my boundary problems on you.
Denalee Bell:
You can. It's fair.
Tyler Bell:
I'm not going to though. Because there's personal accountability. I heard the term. I mean, I wasn't taught about it in school because that's not a life skill that they would want to teach you.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I think everybody builds it. I feel like even if you have a good example of boundaries in your family, you still have to learn it on your own.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, you still have to learn.
Denalee Bell:
You learn some at school, right? Because you have to be at school at a certain time. There's rules. You learn boundaries with some people.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, and that's enough to shame anybody at any age that's still struggling to learn or even comprehend what boundaries are, I know that I took the same role that you did, and I definitely emulated the people-pleasing, the not wanting to hurt people and taking their responsibility, to be a savior. You know what I mean? I definitely took those roles on for myself. And ultimately, I really struggled in a lot of my relationships and my friendships. And there was always this contention and resentment for people because I wanted them to like me, so I'd do a lot and I just wouldn't get much in return. And I felt like I was always over-giving, oversharing overdoing a lot of things. And I know in my relationships, with me and Nicole, we had a really big contentious part at the beginning of our relationship about boundaries, where I didn't even understand entirely what it meant to have boundaries still.
It was like a year ago, and it was a big moment because you put it in my face and were like, "I'm really learning this. You need to see this because this is where you're messing up right here." And it was a big moment that kind of switched a knot. I got to see all the past relationships that I was in and all my friendships that I used to be in that were having this problem with my boundaries. And I got to reflect and see that in the mirror for once. And it was pretty ugly at first, but I think that moment alone was the real switch for me.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I agree with that too. It really helped me, especially when we got that book thrown in our face.
Tyler Bell:
Oh, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Everyone throws-
Tyler Bell:
Just like somebody bought her a book, she bought me the book, and I got to read it, and I got to be like-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Well, she bought both of us that.
Tyler Bell:
Oh yeah, you too, huh? And we got to be extra vigilant in our boundaries and learn. And honestly, just the first three, four chapters of that book are-
Nicole Hreniuc:
It's great.
Denalee Bell:
I think-
Tyler Bell:
... enough for you to just get it a little bit. You know what I mean?
Denalee Bell:
To open up your eyes to a different world. And I think it was good. It helped me recognize my part in things. So, I guess we should define boundaries. I'll give you my coupled definition. I think of it as, and I actively have to think of this sometimes when I'm in a situation where I need to define a boundary, is the fence in my yard. Everything in my yard is my boundary. The fence is the boundary. Everything in my yard is my responsibility. And my neighbor has a fence too, around his yard, and everything in his yard is his responsibility. So, I'm not going to sneak over if he's not watering his vegetables enough and sneak into his yard to water his vegetables and then not water mine. Because one, I'd be trespassing a boundary that he set up. He didn't invite me in. I'm not going to sneak in there and save his vegetables and kill mine. But-
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. True enough.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. But a couple weeks ago, or maybe it was like a month ago, he came over and he said, "Your tree's growing in my yard. We need to do something about it because it's going to push the fence in." So, I hired someone to cut the tree. So, he very respectfully came to me, said something of mine was trespassing on his property, let's get it out. And I thought that was handled well. And then his cats sneak into my yard and I send the Yorkie outside to chase them out when they trespass into my yard. So, it's a boundary, it's what's my responsibility, what's his responsibility? And we don't trespass without permission. Would you agree?
Tyler Bell:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
Do you have more you want to add to that?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. I think we see boundaries often as walls to keep everything out and shielded. And a lot of people like to shield everything from coming in, but boundaries should be fences with gates where you allow the good things to come in and keep the bad things from coming in. And boundary problems occur when you don't use that gate properly. I'm going to give you guys four boundary problems. They're going to show you what to look for in yourself and others when you see a boundary problem arise, or you get that body feeling that there's a boundary problem here. The first one I like to mention, and that's the one that me and mom, and I feel like Nicole is a little bit our compliant people. So, we can't say no.
Denalee Bell:
We can now.
Tyler Bell:
We can now. But to be a compliant means you have a hard time saying no, and you end up saying yes to the bad. And it's mostly because you fear what would happen if you did say no. You're afraid of losing your relationship or fear of hurting their feelings or the conflict because you can't handle it. So, for example, you're in a relationship and your partner says, "Do you want to do this thing?" And you don't want to do it. And it's invading your personal boundaries. If you say yes, even though you don't want to, you're being compliant to that person and you're going against your own needs. And you would end up feeling resentment in the long-term towards that person because you didn't stick up for your own needs and you feel like it's their fault that you aren't getting what you need. And for an example as well, with the gate analogy, this is allowing the bad to come in through the gate.
Denalee Bell:
So, a lot of people, I think, with sexual trauma would have a hard time deciphering that, because what was bad... Let's say you were abused as a child for many, many years. You are always letting bad in and keeping good out. It's becomes a programming that would be hard to change.
Tyler Bell:
And it's just hard to understand this because you got to be bold and brave a little bit in these moments, that you need to stick up for yourself. And when you're not used to doing that, it's difficult.
Denalee Bell:
Well, and when you've been trained not to.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. It takes bravery.
Denalee Bell:
It does.
Tyler Bell:
A lot of courage at first, and then it starts to become a little bit natural. The next one I want to cover is avoidant. And this is the second boundary problem. These people can't say yes, and they struggle to say yes. So, they end up saying no to the good, even if it's good for them. And they fear what would happen if they did say yes. So, would it interrupt their pride? Would it somehow affect their ego and how they want to-
Denalee Bell:
I can't relate to this one. I don't even know how this works. What do you mean? Do you have a person in our family that would do this? Is dad this way?
Tyler Bell:
He can be.
Denalee Bell:
He can? His instant answer is no, and then, until he thinks about it?
Tyler Bell:
So, you want to hire somebody to come fix the dishwasher, his pride would say, "No, don't do that."
Denalee Bell:
Oh, yep.
Tyler Bell:
So, he-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, it's definitely a pride thing.
Tyler Bell:
... would say yes to him doing it himself, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
And no to the good person because he might not know how to fix that dishwasher. It's saying no to that person. The good to come into-
Denalee Bell:
To come into the house.
Tyler Bell:
... fix it enough, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes, because he doesn't want a stranger in his house.
Tyler Bell:
Yes. Another reason might be vulnerability. Your fear of vulnerability. You've been hurt so many times in the past that it's easier to just put a shell up to allow anybody to come in. You see that-
Denalee Bell:
And do everything yourself.
Tyler Bell:
You see that in a lot of movies and stuff. And to go back to the gate example, this is keeping good from coming in the gate. And then the third boundary problem is controllers, and they can't hear no. So, this is the other flip side of these boundary problems. They don't respect the boundaries of others. And they see your no as a challenge to overcome that no, and to push your boundaries, because they want what they want.
Denalee Bell:
They seek compliance people probably, to connect with.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it's a funny, interesting relationship that those two have. So, say in the example that I mentioned earlier about relationships, and my partner was wanting me to do something that I didn't want to do, and I was being compliant and saying yes to it because I didn't want to hurt their feelings. If I decided to say no to it, and my partner was like, "What the heck, man? You never do anything for me." That would be a controlling statement. That would be a controlling-
Denalee Bell:
A manipulatively controlling statement.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. That would be a controlling boundary problem.
Denalee Bell:
Emotionally manipulative.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
I'm familiar.
Tyler Bell:
And not saying that you do that.
Denalee Bell:
I've had that happen to me.
Tyler Bell:
You know what I mean?
Nicole Hreniuc:
No, no, no.
Tyler Bell:
That was just for example.
Denalee Bell:
Or, "You never do enough for me."
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, yeah. And this is back to the gate analogy, this is someone breaking down your gate or climbing over your gate.
Denalee Bell:
This is a good boundary-buster.
Tyler Bell:
This is a boundary buster.
Denalee Bell:
So, if you're a compliant person, you've probably, and we've probably all come across controllers.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's hard when you're compliant because the controllers like to seek people that are compliant because they always get what they want. Right?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. And it's probably not malicious.
Tyler Bell:
No.
Denalee Bell:
It's a dynamic that works.
Tyler Bell:
It's how they're used to getting things. It works for them and it's not-
Denalee Bell:
And for both of them.
Tyler Bell:
For both of them, really. Yeah, you're right.
Denalee Bell:
And I would say, honestly, your dad was probably more that personality type before we really started healing. And I was the other. But they both have insidious problems because, well, I will say my compliancy, I would be the martyr and be upset that he would be kind of controlling. But I also enabled it by just my constant complicity, enabled it.
Tyler Bell:
Makes sense. And those two are infamously linked together. But the fourth boundary problem that I want to go over is non-responsive, and they can't hear yes, and that means they don't hear the needs of others in their relationships or their friendships. They don't hear the needs, and they don't partake in their responsibility to love others. So, for the gate example, they would just not even interact with the gate at all. Say you're in a relationship and your partner says that they need you right now to be with you because they're having a hard time, a non-responsive person in the relationship would be like, "You're good. You'll figure it out. Let's go to bed."
Denalee Bell:
Oh.
Tyler Bell:
They're not partaking in their responsibility to have a vulnerable moment or a helpful moment for their partner. And it's kind of like a gray line, you know what I mean? Because if you go too far the other way, you could be a compliant person, right?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Tyler Bell:
Because you struggle with yes. And it's like avoidant kind of a problem. It's similar to avoidant in that way.
Denalee Bell:
Wow.
Tyler Bell:
So, that's a lot of information to take in.
Denalee Bell:
That is.
Tyler Bell:
But these are the four boundary problems that you're going to see. And I'll put up a diagram. Basically, compliants can't say no, avoidance can't say yes, controllers can't hear no, and non-responsive can't hear yes.
Denalee Bell:
All right.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. A lot of information.
Denalee Bell:
It is, it is.
Tyler Bell:
Enjoy. Do with that as you will.
Denalee Bell:
So, I kind of already talked about some of my relationships in the introduction of this, but I'll just say, let's talk about some maybe defining moments of some lack of boundaries in our relationship. So, I could say I've been compliant in the past. Dad has been also a compliant probably with me. We seem like we might move in and out of some of these. Is that common?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, when you see this graph for the first time, or you see these boundary problems for the first time, I'll be like, "Oh, I'm that one." But in reality, I've probably been all four. You know what I mean? And it's not like a black and white situation. It's very gray, very fluid to be in each of those boundary problems.
Denalee Bell:
So, do you have any defining moments in relationships that you'd like to share, of some boundary issues with a friend or family member?
Tyler Bell:
I had a friend that I went to school with and made music with. He had the controlling boundary problem, and I had the compliant boundary problem. And this was a big moment for me, learning this is a boundary problem, but I still was struggling to say no. And it's funny because these two boundaries have a relationship. We just attracted like magnets at that point, and he was an artist, so was I, but he wanted me to focus on producing for him and engineering for him, and put being an artist on the back burner. He also didn't want to pay me for that time because we were just having fun. And I didn't really put up those boundaries that I'm providing service for you, even if it's not the best right now. I'm still spending a lot of my time working for you and putting my needs on the back burner.
Denalee Bell:
This is a common theme with boundary-busters.
Tyler Bell:
They don't [inaudible].
Denalee Bell:
They don't mind invading time, your emotions or your money.
Tyler Bell:
No. Yeah, exactly. And I appreciated his friendship so much that I didn't want to say no. I liked being his friend so much.
Denalee Bell:
Did you fear a loss of a friendship?
Tyler Bell:
Exactly. Exactly. So, compliants have a lot of fear when it comes to saying no. They're scared of the consequences of saying no and sticking up for yourself. So, I allowed him to keep having free studio time, but I wasn't getting what I needed. He might've given me studio favors, but we never agreed on something, and it was kind of just him bull-crapping his way into getting what he wanted.
Denalee Bell:
And it really wasn't his fault.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. No, it wasn't.
Denalee Bell:
Because you didn't set the boundary.
Tyler Bell:
So, I grew resentment, and I was upset with him because he was doing what worked for him, but I didn't set that boundary, and I was resentful for him. And our relationship didn't work because of that. And our friendship crashed for many reasons, but this was probably a very big instigator in why we didn't work together, because I struggled so hard to say no to him. But really, I'm so thankful for it because it really did, whether or not I could say no, I knew what I had to say, no, and I knew, I was like, "This is a boundary problem."
Denalee Bell:
So, you enabled him. I think this is the problem with compliants. We do a lot of enabling in different areas. So, a lot of compliants probably have people with addiction in their lives or with these kind of things. Your dad has anxiety, and so a lot of years I spent enabling or catering to that or to make sure he didn't experience it. So, I gave up on a lot of things in my life because I thought, "Okay, it's not worth it. This is going to cause him anxiety." He didn't ask me to, not once. This is me. This is me deciding I'm going to save him. The problem, when we read the book, was I realized, I thought, "Oh, he's going to leave me when he figures out what I've done." Because I thought, "I've really hurt him. I've stunted his growth because I enabled and catered to this issue." And then I also made you guys cater to his issue, right?
Tyler Bell:
Oh, that's a big one right there.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
Making the people around you cater to this issue that you can't say no to.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
That is a compliant problem.
Denalee Bell:
It is.
Tyler Bell:
That is a compliant problem-
Denalee Bell:
I thought-
Tyler Bell:
... I'm guilty of.
Denalee Bell:
I really thought if he figures this out, he's going to leave me. When I suddenly saw that... Oh, excuse me.
Tyler Bell:
Isn't it interesting how you become a controller to other people to support your compliant problem?
Denalee Bell:
Yes. It's kind of gross.
Tyler Bell:
It's kind of gross, isn't it?
Denalee Bell:
When I read this book and I saw this, and I truly realized that, "Oh, you're the biggest problem in this dynamic of every..." So, I thought everyone was ruining my life and I had to get away from them, but I was ruining my life.
Tyler Bell:
So, Nicole, what were some other parts that you found to be defining moments in you needing to have better boundaries?
Nicole Hreniuc:
I feel like it was mostly just my friendships, especially in college. I feel like I hit a little glow-up stage, and I didn't really have friends or hang out with people in high school. And I went to college and I had so many friends that I could not tell people no, and I constantly wanted to impress people, constantly wanted to go hang out, even if I didn't want to, made my grades suffer, made everything in my life suffer because of it. I think once I finally learned how to put up those boundaries and care for myself and not really feel like I'm missing out on anything, a lot changed. And I realized that a lot of these people are actually not people that I wanted in my life in the first place.
Tyler Bell:
So, it's kind of almost like your self-boundaries, you didn't have them formed.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I didn't.
Tyler Bell:
And you're hanging and being around a situation that you just wanted to feel that acceptance and that-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. That's what it was.
Denalee Bell:
I can relate.
Tyler Bell:
I can relate, I can.
Denalee Bell:
I can totally relate.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I think everybody's hit that point at some point in their life, I guess. But it was just hard because I feel like it was really just my growing years and I spent it trying to impress other people, but-
Tyler Bell:
It's common for people.
Nicole Hreniuc:
... really, I'm glad that I learned it at such a young age.
Denalee Bell:
I'm so grateful that you guys are understanding this at a young age.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, I am too.
Denalee Bell:
You don't want to-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Because it's improving our relationship, but it's improving our future relationships with any friends, whatever else is happening.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. It's really a shame that this isn't really spoken about or talked about in school when you're growing up and developing these habits in your relationships. It's more like, "Just take the standard stuff." It's not like, "Here's some real life practical skills that you can use to further-"
Denalee Bell:
Well, in all fairness, it's probably a parent's responsibility to teach and model.
Tyler Bell:
That's fair. That's fair.
Denalee Bell:
And it's unfair that my parents' parents, their parents' parents, I mean, how far back does it go? We don't know. It's just an unfortunate thing. But I do believe maybe it's our job to help people. We've been through it, we're learning. It's good. My relationships have changed exponentially.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, me too.
Denalee Bell:
I enjoy the people I choose to be around now. I enjoy the time I spend with them.
Tyler Bell:
Emphasis on choose to be around.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Nicole Hreniuc:
And you feel the respect from both ends.
Tyler Bell:
Because I don't really got many friends anymore. No offense to people I used to hang out with, but I'm just kind of on my own right now.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I think there's some natural things that happen when you start to develop boundaries. One is, and it's super natural as you start to develop boundaries to isolate a little bit so you can kind of get strong and figure out who you are and what you want. So, I spent so many years not knowing who I was because I had spent my time fulfilling who I thought everybody else wanted me to be, so they would like me. And saying yes to everything, that it took me some time to figure out, who am I, what do I like? So I could set a boundary. Those are really important things to know, because as we go and talk more about boundary-setting, if you don't know who you are and what you like and what you don't want, or what you want inside your fence and what you don't want inside that fence, how do you set a boundary?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
So, I think it's okay as we grow to take that time and go and get strong in who we are, but then to set back out. And I think another common phase that I went through is to be a little bit angry. I was a little angry at my mama and my dad and my grandparents and their parents.
Tyler Bell:
For starting this shit.
Denalee Bell:
I'm not lying. And that's really normal as you start to realize, but it's a phase. And when you realize and have compassion that, oh my goodness, she would've liked to have had boundaries too. She would've liked that life too. But there is a little bit of anger. And I noticed too earlier on, as I started setting boundaries, I got a little angry that people would even dare cross my boundaries.
Tyler Bell:
How did you not know this?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
How dare you?
Denalee Bell:
And how unfair of me, as they didn't know a flip was switched inside of me and all of a sudden I'm a different person. But I think that's fair to give yourself a little grace, that there's some transition. So, now you're angry, but it's not going to last. Now you're going to work through that, and you might get angry as you start to set boundaries. And it doesn't work because it's a practice, especially if you're new, it's hard. There's difficult people. I thought my husband was going to be super difficult and it wasn't. I think it's because we read the book together that I can say, "Hey, you're being a boundary-buster. I've said three times I need to work and you won't leave my office." And he goes, "Oh, I'm sorry."
Because he's so sweet. And so, it's important to have a supportive network as you go into this foray, because if you don't, it makes it extremely difficult. Because my mom and I, we have boundary issues that we're working through. And thank you, Jesus, that my mom and I both have been seeking help, and we've both gotten help through this, and we're not the same people we were, but it's still a dynamic that we step on each other's toes a little bit here and there, and we're trying to find our place in that.
So, I still get a little triggered sometimes by stuff that happens like a small boundary. She overstepped a boundary, which was really insignificant and doesn't even know she did it. So, I hope she doesn't watch this. Love you, Mom. But it was really insignificant, and I really overreacted to it in my mind, that it was a big deal and I didn't deal with it. And that's why it became a big deal, is because normally with other people, I just deal with it right away. "No, no, I don't want to do that. No, no, no." So, anyway, it's really important to have a support network, because I do have your dad, and you guys, I know have each other. I have my church. I have my friends at church who I can bounce things off of.
Tyler Bell:
It's interesting, after you learn this, I did have an isolation period. I mean, I left my job to do this, and I didn't have a big network of friends, but I didn't really go back to my friends because I needed to understand where my boundaries lie and what I needed in my life. So, it was nice to have Nicole and nice to have you guys, but it didn't really expand far past that for probably a year. You know what I mean?
Denalee Bell:
But I think that's okay.
Tyler Bell:
It was good. Yeah. Its just kind of that chapter-
Nicole Hreniuc:
It's a lot of growth.
Tyler Bell:
... in my boundaries. It was a lot of growth between then.
Denalee Bell:
I think it's okay to be alone and just learn to like yourself a little bit too.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Oh, yeah. Especially me, I was never alone growing up. I always had to be hanging out with someone. And now, within this past year, I think I've taken so much time to really learn myself, and it's been great.
Tyler Bell:
I love being alone.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, me too.
Denalee Bell:
Me too.
Tyler Bell:
I'm a little selfish with my time, though. That's a lot of mine and Nicole's boundary problem, is my selfishness for needing a lot of time alone, but also learning-
Denalee Bell:
Are you being selfish, truly? Okay, so this is a boundary problem. We think we're being selfish when we express our need. Are you being selfish with your time?
Tyler Bell:
I think I can be. So, I think there was a balance that I had to learn because I would go so far one way, but maybe Nicole did want more of my time that I was willing to allow, to give. So, there was a push there that I couldn't handle, but at the same time, I set a boundary with where I was at. And then I took it the far the other way where I was aggressive about my boundary, when I needed to pull back and see how selfish I was being with my time, because I also have to pay attention to her needs.
Denalee Bell:
Right, exactly. There's a balance.
Tyler Bell:
There's a balance between needs.
Denalee Bell:
And we'll talk about that here too in a little bit.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, in a little bit. Jumped ahead.
Denalee Bell:
So, when should you set a boundary? When? Ty?
Tyler Bell:
Early and often.
Denalee Bell:
I love that.
Tyler Bell:
As soon as you see someone kind of looking over your fence, if you're going back to that fence analogy, people be shady, got to be vigilant.
Denalee Bell:
People be shady. That's the truth.
Tyler Bell:
People be shady, and they might not even know they're being shady.
Denalee Bell:
We're going to set our boundaries early and often, and sometimes we need signs for when to set these boundaries because we don't know. Like I said, this was all new to me, an alien in a new land. I thought I was being nice and being kind. I thought I was doing the right thing. But as I started to learn about boundaries and when they were getting crossed, like I said earlier, I would get a little angry. I still get a little angry. I get a little isolation feeling, like I want to isolate and I start feeling burnout. One of the things I notice, if I should have set a boundary, this is a sign I should have set a boundary, is if I find myself rehearsing what I wish I would've said, "Why didn't I say this? Why didn't I say that? Next time this happens, I'm going to say this."
Nicole Hreniuc:
It's so funny, I never correlated those times with boundaries.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. It's what I did.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I've done that a lot.
Denalee Bell:
It's when we should have set one, or if we're venting, if something happened and we're like, "Can you believe she did this to me?"
Tyler Bell:
If you're venting about someone, it's probably a sign you need to set boundaries.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. So, all of these are kind of warning signals. Some of them come a little later, the anger, the irritation over something that happens. You can kind of see that. But if you get to the point where you're rehearsing and venting, maybe we should have set a boundary a little earlier, but don't be upset about these, these are victories. This is a victory that you're feeling these things. These are mechanisms inside your body that something's not right. And I didn't feel these before. I mean, I would get frustrated and depressed, but it wasn't because somebody crossed a boundary, it was because my life felt out of control. Now, I have these things, these warning signs.
Tyler Bell:
So, if you watched your self-image podcast, they're like failure mechanisms, where it's a signal or a sign to show you that there's something wrong. So, if you're not comfortable in setting boundaries or even know when a boundary's been crossed, these are a good place to look, whether or not that somebody's crossed a boundary with you and you need to set a boundary.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. They're warnings, indicators that something's not right.
Tyler Bell:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And don't be upset about those because sometimes I would feel like I'm learning about boundaries, and then it would happen again. And I would feel like, "I'm never going to get this. Am I never going to get this?"
Tyler Bell:
Obviously, we don't want to be reminded of how far back we are in something or how much we have to learn, but it's a good thing that you feel... it's hard to reshape it and think that this is a good thing that you feel that way because you're being aware of when something's happening when a boundary's being crossed.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly.
Tyler Bell:
That's the point. We all just need to be more aware of when boundaries are being crossed so we can early and often get on top of them.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. So, there's a lot of boundary problems that we could all have in the past. I think we all related to the difficulty saying no.
Tyler Bell:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
So, it's just hard to say no to people because we want them to like us. Any other boundary difficulties you guys have had?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Feeling responsible for other people's feelings. A lot of relationships, with friendships, I would try to set a boundary followed by a temper tantrum, and I would cave to that boundary because I felt like I hurt them. I felt like I did something wrong because like you said, I feel like I'm doing something good by giving you what you want all the time and giving you what you need all the time because I want to make you feel good, but it's really healthy for the relationship to say no. You're not having a true, honest relationship unless you're saying no.
Denalee Bell:
It is. Sometimes if we say no, because we don't want to say no because we might hurt their feelings. "No, I don't want to go the concert with you." We don't feel empowered to just say no because we don't want to hurt their feelings, but we're okay hurting our own. We're okay hurting our own needs. Or-
Tyler Bell:
So many of my boundary problems have been out of fear, all of-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Me too. It's insecurity.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Yeah. Insecurity, fear. And I think also on the other end of being a controller, like you said, try to make people go along with my compliancy for another person, I feel like, or controlling in the aspect of saving someone when they didn't ask for it.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. There's another thing that I want to talk about. I have somebody in my life who often asks me for things that I'm unwilling to give. Could be time, money, or energy. Let's just say that. And when he does this, I used to have a hard time saying no because I didn't want to hurt his feelings. But again-
Tyler Bell:
Or his future, your thought of what his future could be.
Denalee Bell:
Right. Exactly. So, the problem with that is, it's okay if somebody's feelings are hurt. It's okay. I don't think we should set out to hurt somebody's feelings, but let's say you want me to give you $10,000, and I say, "I don't think so, Nicole." And you're like, "No, I really want it, and I'm a good girlfriend to your son. You should give it to me." What if I said yes? Just because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. Well, the hurting your feelings is okay if you're going to learn and grow from it. It would seem ridiculous for me to say... I mean, right now it seems ridiculous to say yes. I'm just joking, just joking.
But let's say it was a constant ask. And it was growing and it was a financial thing, and you're like, "I thought we were better friends than that, Denalee. I thought we were better friends. I really need the $10,000." And I'm like, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but at the same time, I don't want to give you $10,000 because I don't want to," let's say.
Tyler Bell:
And to be honest, that's an unrealistic expectation.
Denalee Bell:
It is. It is. But a compliant doesn't know that sometimes. A compliant doesn't know what an unrealistic expectation is.
Tyler Bell:
Amen.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I feel like in situations like that, I avoid explanations.
Denalee Bell:
But it's a problem, right?
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I think when we're dealing with people's feelings, we have to understand that we're not going to set out to hurt them, but it's okay if their feelings are hurt. Right?
Tyler Bell:
I agree.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. Any other boundary problems you guys have? Because I have opinions on all of them, apparently.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Oh, I feel like I've had trouble oversharing to people. I think there was a lot of things in my life that I kind of just needed help with, and instead of just seeking to myself, because I was so reliant on other people, I just continuously trauma-dumped onto people. And I feel like I've also gotten that out of a friendship as well. And it's hard, especially let's say someone comes up to you and asks for relationship advice. It's one of those things you can only tell them, give them advice so much. It's not your relationship, and at that point you're just taking on their trauma.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. Do you hear what you just said? I think this is a boundary problem. Do you have a lot of friends that come to you for advice over and over and don't take the advice?
Nicole Hreniuc:
I do. Yeah, I do.
Denalee Bell:
So, that's a boundary problem, people continually asking you for advice or wanting your help, but not hearing a word you say, and then it takes your time and your energy.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. It's normal for our age, especially.
Tyler Bell:
Ah, man.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Everybody's learning how to navigate, and they're going through life and everybody goes to all their friends to talk about relationships and stuff. But I used to think that was normal until I realized it was just destroying any of my relationships.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I get it. Okay, let's say you guys have an argument and you're talking to your friend about it and getting some true insight-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, I feel like it has to be something pretty [inaudible]-
Tyler Bell:
Well, I've heard this one thing one time, if you ask more than three people, it's not to get an actual answer, it's for attention. It's for validation.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. So, I have some people in my life who used to come to me for advice and would never take it, would never take it, and going into the same ditch, and over and over, and then I felt frustrated, and then I would be more proactive in my approach to helping them. So, the problem was, they took my time and my energy and I let them, and then I started inserting myself even more because I'm like, "How do you not see this? This is so obvious."
Nicole Hreniuc:
Oh, yeah. You get so consumed into it that it drains you.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Yes. So, that was a boundary problem of mine.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. I've had that before too. Or I feel like another thing for me was a really strong need to be liked. Kind of like how I touched back earlier, especially when I was in college, and I think I adjusted a lot of myself and my preferences, or even just the way I acted, just to impress people. And now that I'm just so firm in who I am, I feel like when I rekindle with those people, they're kind of just like, "You're different." And I'm like, "Yeah, no, I'm just acting like myself."
Denalee Bell:
I'm just me now. Hello. Meet me.
Tyler Bell:
This is the person that I am.
Denalee Bell:
I feel I am not, I'm 50 years old. I feel like I've had 1,000 lives, but I feel like this new version of me is so different, I'm almost uncomfortable to be with friends who I haven't seen in a couple of years.
Tyler Bell:
Absolutely. It's just been one year for me, and I'm afraid to go back to the restaurant I used to work at in nine-
Nicole Hreniuc:
See, I did that too in college, and for me, I don't want to have shame towards it, but I do. At the same time, did anybody think twice about it that much? No. I probably came off as pretty damaged or sporadic, but that's okay. Everybody grows. I was young.
Denalee Bell:
I think everyone's just doing life. I don't know that, I think that relationship dynamic would be so different unless you're like Susanna, who's my favorite. It would just be so different because I'm so different. I'm not going to just buy you lunch because you showed up. I'm not going to just do whatever you want because... and I find myself not even wanting to go back to those kind of relationships that were so one-sided anyway.
Tyler Bell:
Absolutely. I know I would ask inappropriate questions a lot, and especially the restaurant or something, or with friends that I would, not that I'm sometimes-
Nicole Hreniuc:
Do you mean just kind of-
Denalee Bell:
No, I ask inappropriate, invasive questions. I do that.
Tyler Bell:
Sometimes... Exactly. That's what I mean. So, invasive. I mean some off-colored kind of questions, but more invasive because for that savior complex in my head, because I want to save people and I want to ask questions that are deep and maybe not where our friendship is comfortable at, so I can control them because I don't want to take care of me. I want to control them-
Denalee Bell:
Or the situation.
Tyler Bell:
And the situation in their life, to help them for my savior complex. You know what I mean?
Nicole Hreniuc:
I had a big problem with that. I used to.
Denalee Bell:
One of my boundary problems is, I was very inauthentic in my relationships. Like I said, I was whoever they wanted me to be, and I wasn't me. Well, in all fairness, I didn't know who me was.
Tyler Bell:
It's hard to.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Oh, I feel like, especially when you're such a compliant person, yeah. And once you start to understand yourself, it's almost overwhelming.
Denalee Bell:
It is.
Tyler Bell:
We just watched the Barbie movie last night. Remember when Barbie finally had the courage to be her and say no to Ken?
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And she's teaching Ken to be him.
Tyler Bell:
Right. She got to see who I am. They got to know who I am because they set boundaries.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, because he didn't have any boundaries either. For him, he would throw away everything out of his day to-
Denalee Bell:
Just for her to-
Nicole Hreniuc:
[inaudible].
Denalee Bell:
Just to say hi.
Tyler Bell:
Just want to say hi.
Denalee Bell:
It's cute. That was cute. My other boundary problem area is, I like to give advice, especially unsolicited.
Tyler Bell:
Oh, yeah. So do I.
Denalee Bell:
So, that is definitely a boundary problem. This is where I cross over into somebody else's yard and go to my neighbor and tell him that he should be growing another peach tree because I'm not getting enough peaches this year.
Tyler Bell:
See, boundary problems are not just black and white. You're not just one.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Tyler Bell:
And I'm not just one.
Denalee Bell:
No. See, it's not just people coming and crossing into mine. I cross into theirs too. And that happens when you don't know any better. But it also explains a lot of my friendships or people maybe not wanting to hang out with me, if I'm going to say, "You should breastfeed. Of course, you should breastfeed. I breasted when I was younger. Everyone should do what I do."
Tyler Bell:
It's kind of interesting when you're first learning boundaries. For me, I was always the victim in it.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
And understanding as you mature, and most people I see on social media when they talk about boundaries, they're like, "I'm always the compliant one. I'm the victim in this situation." But to be honest, if you're compliant, you're kind of being a villain to yourself.
Denalee Bell:
And to them.
Tyler Bell:
And the relationship, and to them. But also, you could be a controller too. It's very likely you're also not just, "Ooh, poor me."
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. Exactly. And that was an interesting part of why I thought your dad was going to leave me, because I had been the victim this whole time. He is the bad guy, because I'm doing all these things for him, and he's just not loving me enough, and he is not reciprocating enough. I mean, he honestly could not have reciprocated enough. There was no amount that could fill up the emptiness that I was feeling, because I had poured every ounce of myself out, and I honestly didn't allow people to pour back in. I just didn't. So, it was just such a weird thing, and that's when I thought, "Okay, he's going to leave me." When I figured out I was the bigger problem in this, I was the one who created most of the dynamic. I thought, "Okay." But no, he's a good man and he loved me through it and he's healing with me. Thank you. He's a good man. All right, kids, any other boundary problems that you've had?
Tyler Bell:
No. I think for me, I've cleared it.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, I'm sure there's more, but-
Tyler Bell:
Oh, I'm sure there's more. Yeah, I'm not saying those are my only-
Denalee Bell:
This is not an exhaustive list. This is just ours.
Tyler Bell:
I could probably go on for days, but those were the ones I had planned answers for. Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. This is going to conclude our first podcast on boundaries. Part two is going to be available next week on Monday. Make sure to follow our Instagram @soapyboxofficial just to be in the loop and updated of when we release things. Thank you guys for sticking around, and if you can, please hit that Like and Subscribe button. We're a brand new channel and each Like and Subscribe helps so much. Thank you guys so much. We love you all. Bye.