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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:01.281)
Well, welcome everyone to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and welcome to Carl and Heather Cartee. I'm so excited about this conversation because you guys are new friends of mine, but especially Heather and I, feel like we became fast friends, like kindred spirits. And I'm excited about you guys being on the podcast today because...
Carl Cartee (00:18.872)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:25.301)
We have yet to talk about marriage with any specificity on the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and that's a little bit by design because when you've been in ministry as long as I have and I know we all have sometimes there is some baggage that comes along with talking about marriage or with marriage ministries and so
I once Heather and I got to know each other, kind of started doing my research on the two of you. And I really appreciated the way that you guys communicate about and encourage one another around marriage. And so you guys are the, leading the way for talking about marriage on Everything Made Beautiful. So thank you guys for being here.
Carl Cartee (01:10.446)
Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having us. Looking forward to it.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:12.537)
Well, have all, myself and my husband and the two of you, we've all managed to cross a quarter of a century in marriage. We've been married 25, 26, 27 years, and you guys have made it part of your life's work to talk about marriage, encourage believers in marriage. And so what is a key lesson being married for 25 years that you guys would say you have learned or that you are
Carl Cartee (01:21.122)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:42.307)
constantly learning about staying committed to one another through every season.
Carl Cartee (01:49.335)
Yeah. I think first of all, marriage is super hard work. But the thing that most people assume about marriage is that once you get married, married, you can just, you know, start to coast. But the reality of it is even though we're married, we can still drift apart. marriage is seasonal. It's cyclical.
No, the thing I think we talk about a lot on our podcast is no marriage is static. your marriage changes just because from the realities of people getting older, you know, I'm not the same person as I was, you know, at 25 as I am at 50, you know, it's just that alone has made our marriage dynamic and changing. And so you have to be committed to making the adjustments necessary to age with your spouse, to change with like,
Everything Made Beautiful (02:35.021)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (02:47.264)
mental health, emotional health, physical health, all of those things are these variables that no one signs up for at the altar. Or maybe you promise them, but then experiencing them in the real world can be jarring. just, that's one thing. It's never static. So remembering that's been important for me. Yeah. Yeah. think the idea, I'm assuming that most of your listeners are Christ followers, but
Everything Made Beautiful (03:15.118)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (03:15.884)
But the idea or the difference between contract and covenant has been something that we've had to learn. Whereas, you know, in Western culture, especially, we think about marriage as a contract, like, Carl does his part, I do my part, but if he doesn't do his part, then I can break that contract. Whereas covenant doesn't say that covenant is, I do it regardless of what you do. Like I die to self, I commit to you, I serve you. And it's not based on how you are, it's based on
Everything Made Beautiful (03:32.835)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (03:45.676)
what I've said and promised to God. And so just learning that, I didn't understand that when we first got married, that idea or that difference between covenant and contract. And so it's been a learning process for sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:58.329)
and I think the whole idea of covenant, I knew, I would say, as a young girl and a teenager that once you got married, you were supposed to always stay married. But it was never talked about in the, I shouldn't say never, it was rarely talked about in terms of covenant, but was often because divorce is a sin. And so it was not stay married because you're in a covenant that honors God. Sorry, my lawn guy has decided.
Carl Cartee (04:21.258)
Right,
Carl Cartee (04:25.965)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:27.927)
decided to start weed whacking outside my window. fun. That's a yeah, it's a fun podcasting thing. But you know, instead of staying married because you were making a covenant with your spouse and before the Lord, it was don't get divorced. And that's just not a good reason to stay married. So I love that.
Carl Cartee (04:29.454)
That's alright. We've got a dog so we could hear that a minute. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (04:47.276)
Right. Yeah. Right. Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:52.085)
your mission with the work that you do with couples is awakening affection for God and each other. So what does that practically look like in a marriage when to your point Carl it everything changes seasons change circumstances change and people change what does it look like to awaken that affection not just once but in an ongoing way?
Carl Cartee (05:19.938)
Yeah, I think that's a good question because so much of our culture right now is based on affection, which is, I would say, a feeling, like the way I feel about you. And we can't deny our feelings, but I think what we've done is, I heard somebody once say that your feelings are like your kids in a car. You can't let them drive, but you can't put them in the trunk either. And so it's this idea that we've kind of...
Everything Made Beautiful (05:30.85)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (05:43.413)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (05:48.171)
started to let our feelings drive the car, where they need a seat in the car, but they don't need the lead. And so one of the things that has served us well as we work to continue having affection for each other and for God is that we act our way into a feeling instead of feel our way into an action. so oftentimes, yeah, so we act our way into a feeling instead of feeling our way into an action. And it's just this idea that, you know,
Everything Made Beautiful (06:04.185)
Mm.
That's good. Say that one more time.
Carl Cartee (06:17.432)
Feelings can come with actions. We're not always going to feel like we love each other. I don't always feel like I love God. Sometimes I'm angry at God. Sometimes I'm confused. Sometimes he feels distant. And it's the same with my spouse. But I act my way into that feeling and I pursue him and I do things that show him I love him. Not because I might feel that way, but I know that oftentimes the feelings will follow with that. And so
Those affections are awakened, like we said, forgotten each other when we lead with our actions.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:53.625)
Yeah, that's, that is so good. We act our way into a feeling. We don't feel our way into an action. Ooh, that's good. So as you, as you work with people and with marriages, what are some of the most common challenges that you see in marriages today? Because as different as we all are and as different as our marriages are, often our challenges are very similar. but I think
Carl Cartee (07:01.57)
Right. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:22.487)
The enemy probably lies to us and makes us think we're the only ones who are having this problem, especially as believers, there can be a certain amount of shame around admitting all is not well in your marriage. So what are some of the things that you guys see as you minister to people?
Carl Cartee (07:39.695)
Yeah. Our community that we live in, which you live in too, we have an epidemic of busyness and like we are wall to wall with activities. mean, from travel, sports, even something like church, we can be so busy with it that we have zero margin.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:44.931)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:49.934)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (08:05.422)
In most marriages, you know, if you have children, things like that, there's all these things that eat up the margins, you know, let alone like a career, like earning an income, feeding people, living indoors, all of those things that it eats up margin. Well, probably the thing that suffers first is your just relationship. Like if you don't have time to talk, then you're not going to talk. And if you don't have
time to feel connected, then you're not, you won't feel connected. So we, end up talking a lot to a lot of people about what, what choices are you making with your time and what, where is the margin? Where is even like the concept of Sabbath and rest? Like it's, those are the places where our souls get nourished and our relationships get deeper. When you can linger around the table, when you can have a conversation or take a walk, but
A lot of times families for not not not on purpose. It often happens by accident or just over the drift happens in overtime. Families and relationships find themselves like we don't have time for each other. So we're not close. Well, that's exactly right. A plus B equals C every time. And so when we sometimes we need even things just like
like a crisis or something that helps reorient us to what matters the most, you know, what matters the most? Well, your health gets really, really important when you face a sickness, you know, your time gets really, really important when someone says you've got this much more of it. And, you know, and so I think we just get so distracted with our lifestyle and everybody, everybody's like that. We're like that. We're in a season right now.
where I'm super, super busy, we're traveling a lot and it feels like, but there's something in my soul that says, hey, be careful about that because that busyness comes at a cost. And I think one of the first costs you pay on that is just connection and relationship. Now, the longer that goes, you know, the heart, you got to work harder to restore it and repair it because if you're drift, if you're going in separate directions, you know, you got to work twice as hard to get back.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:05.603)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:24.535)
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Most people probably don't think of busyness as the thing that is going to negatively impact their marriage first, but it is the thing I think that we get caught in first. That's the thing because there are so many things and I tell my kids all the time, it is so rarely for mom and dad about choosing between good things and bad things.
Carl Cartee (10:35.778)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (10:39.458)
Yeah. Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:50.709)
It's like of all these amazing and wonderful things and opportunities, all of which have something to do with Jesus and our things, people who love him do, you know, but we, we just can't in any sustainable way do them all. And so our choices seem like we're choosing from really great things at all times, but the fact remains, we just can't do it all. you mentioned that you guys,
Carl Cartee (11:01.442)
That's right.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:19.819)
obviously have been married for 25 years, but you've changed over time. Are you able to look back and see some specific ways that you've both changed over the years or maybe the way the other person has changed and what has surprised you about that?
Carl Cartee (11:37.155)
Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think for me, our relationship is interesting because both of us are type A firstborn leader, which you don't always see that in a relationship. And so it made for some interesting conflict early on in our marriage. But the thing that drew me to Carl, like the fact that he was an achiever and he was
Everything Made Beautiful (11:57.571)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (12:05.07)
outgoing and he was gregarious. Sometimes that would also be the thing that would cause conflict for us because it was like two people coming together with the same strengths and similar weaknesses as well. I've loved to watch over time with him the Lord chip away the pieces of that that might not reflect Christ but still keep the things that drew me to him that are strengths because you know we all have strengths that have corresponding weaknesses.
And it's not that we should diminish our strengths. Or I even heard you say this like the other night, at your Bible study, you know, I'm not going to play small ball just to make you feel comfortable because you think I might be too much. And so I've watched him step into his gifts and the Lord just kind of shape him into who he wants him to be. So he looks more like Christ. And it's been it's been beautiful. It's been hard and it's been transformative. But
Everything Made Beautiful (12:46.295)
Right. Right.
Carl Cartee (13:02.626)
I've seen that. a classic example, when we first got married, this I've told the story a lot, but we were in a conflict and I come from a family of yellers and loud volume people. And it was just more like, that's the way you did it. But like, that's just the way we did it. And little did I know that 95 % of everyone else talks to each other like humans. You know what I mean? And so we get married.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:13.719)
Mmm.
Carl Cartee (13:31.323)
And I remember this conflict. Heather said, you hurt my feelings. And my response was, you need to get some new feelings. And I was like, I know, right? That sounds like a monster. But like I would do stuff like that and say stuff like that to me, the value of the words was, was low. You know what I mean? I didn't, I didn't put as much weight on them, but I had to realize that no, it matters a lot.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:39.713)
gosh.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:50.659)
Yeah. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (13:58.639)
And it's not just the words, it's the tone. It's, you know, the, the, how you say it, like what's behind it. All of that stuff was hitting her in the heart. I didn't see it, but I was also starting to reap, you know, the fruit of being, you know, she, she was getting really, really frustrated with me and basically got to a point was like, look, you can't talk to me that way. And so honestly for me, it's
how I use my words, being able to measure them. that's still, that's that's a pinch point for me. It always has been, but that's, I hope I'm getting better at that. I think Heather, you better say the right thing. For sure. And you know, he's a, he is a, are different in that he is a, he's a quick, he's a quick decision maker. I'm a, I'm a processor and a thinker, so I'm more slow to change.
And so I've had to, he's had to slow down. I've had to catch up. I can't just say, well, I'm slow to change. You're going to slow down to my pace. We've had to meet in the middle, you know, and it's been, we've had to do that. yeah. How's that leaf blower going over there?
Everything Made Beautiful (15:04.13)
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, I, yeah, it's insane. Like he's literally just outside the window. And I'm like, you can't make this stuff up, but you know, it's interesting. Every time that this has happened, whatever we've been talking about has been something really important that I feel passionately that people need to hear. So I just, I assign it to the enemy and I'm like, we're going to keep going. We're not going to stop. It's interesting what you.
Carl Cartee (15:15.662)
you
Carl Cartee (15:26.607)
Hahaha
huh.
There you go. There you go. That's right.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:38.313)
said about strengths and weaknesses because that I know that that's true of my life. I'm very transparent about that when I speak as well is that it's like I know that one of my primary gifts is words which means that one of my primary weaknesses is my words and so isn't it isn't it so true that the thing God intends to use for his glory and for the furthering of his kingdom is also the thing that when I am not
Carl Cartee (15:40.814)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (15:54.712)
There you go.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:06.089)
yielded to the Holy Spirit is the most is the thing that I wield for the most damage. And when I look back over my life, the the most painful things in my life have been somehow associated with something that I said or how I said it or who I said it to or in what way I said it. And so it's but in a marriage where you just said the thing that drew you to him was also the thing that you know
Carl Cartee (16:11.31)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:32.961)
outside of the control of the Holy Spirit was most painful. And so I'm grateful that God refines us in those ways without taking away the thing that makes it amazing to begin with. for couples that you talk to who are struggling with disconnection or who have found we just kind of exist in the same house and we do all the same things and we're not even really
Carl Cartee (16:44.204)
Right, yeah, absolutely.
Carl Cartee (16:52.088)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (16:59.299)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:02.051)
fighting like I think there are marriages with extreme conflict there are other marriages that maybe Have just gone to a we go through the motions all the time kind of place and we're all in our rhythms and our routines and the connection is not there What are some of the even small ways that you counsel people to begin finding that connection again?
Carl Cartee (17:27.554)
Yeah. Well, I think like I would go back to what Carl said about time. And so like if somebody were asking me about that, I would just say, well, talk to me about your schedule because your schedule, where you spend your time and where you put your emotions and your resources really kind of lead to the, to what you worship or what's important to you. And so if I see that, and this happens sometimes in seasons, you mentioned this, but if I see that everything leads to work or kids,
and then spouse gets leftovers or everything leads to church or everything leads to ministry or you know everything leads to this and then the spouse gets the leftovers. You know my kids are going to be fine tonight if I give them cereal for dinner so I can go on a longer walk with my husband because we need to connect. And so that's just one practical thing. Another practical thing because I think sometimes people there's only one spouse that's saying I want to work on this and the other one is not.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:16.269)
Yeah, that's good.
Carl Cartee (18:27.66)
And so how do you do that when you're not working as a team? It's really simple, but I just think that the Lord teaches us through His Spirit. And so if we pray daily, God, what's one way I can tangibly love my spouse today in the way that they receive love? Because often, you I want to give you love the way I feel loved, but that might not be the way, you know, you might be words, I might be gifts, and I'm giving you gifts, and you're like, just tell me I'm great, you know, kind of thing.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:49.005)
Totally.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:55.384)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (18:56.758)
And so how do they feel loved? And then ask the Lord, how can I just today, like I just need to do it today. How can I love that person the way you love them? And how can I show that in tangible way? We had a buddy give us a great piece of advice about drawing someone out. I think this is good for husbands, but he said, be interested, not interesting.
Everything Made Beautiful (19:23.084)
Thank
Carl Cartee (19:23.624)
So like, you know, don't tell me, you know, show off to me how many facts and stuff that you know. And like a lot of guys love to pontificate about, know, all this stuff and the podcast that they listen to. But be interested in your spouse, draw them out. And I learned I learned that from Heather. She is great at asking people questions about themselves. And then all of a sudden everyone loves Heather and they're just like, I just love to be around her and she's so fun. And well,
It's kind of a magic trick, but it's because she asks people about themselves a lot and gives them an opportunity to draw them out. think spouses could do that for connection because you'd be surprised how emotionally close you feel to somebody who asks you about your heart or asks you about what's going on inside, you know, instead of the facts and you know, you know, when are you going to be at this place and who do you have to pick up tonight and what's for dinner, that kind of stuff. Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (19:56.973)
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:18.233)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (20:20.152)
Be interested instead of interesting.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:24.333)
That's so good. I mentioned your podcast, which is one of the things I found when I was researching you guys. So what made you decide you wanted to start the podcast? Because it is fun and honest. It all coexists at the same time. So what inspired you to start that and just go, you know what, we're going to have some conversations about this.
Carl Cartee (20:47.214)
Yeah, you want to take that on? Yeah, we had, you know, we had a, we had a big kind of transition in our lives. You know, I was working at a church and then all of sudden I wasn't working at that church anymore. And it was the end of like 20, almost 20 years of serving in that church body. And it was jarring and it was a little bit of like, what are we going to do now? Let's start a podcast.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:59.289)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (21:16.064)
No one's doing that. Yeah. clearly, clearly. But so it was also one of those things where like it's jarring in a way that kind of wakes you up to say, hey, if you could do anything, what would you do? And so Heather and I had been dreaming. We've been speaking at marriage conferences for family life for about three or four years at the time. And we really just
Everything Made Beautiful (21:17.758)
Yeah, obvious next step.
Carl Cartee (21:44.279)
loved the marriage and family space and we felt like we had a way of talking about it that was thank you for giving me the word but like funny and honest and I don't know hopefully relatable so we just bought some bought some microphones started started a podcast and yeah
Everything Made Beautiful (22:01.741)
It's not much more complicated than that. People think it's super complicated. If I can do it, anybody can do it. So it is not much more complicated than that. What is your hope as you prepare for a podcast and you think about the couples or if only one couple, one part of the couple is listening, what do you hope that they're taking away from that?
Carl Cartee (22:06.454)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (22:26.766)
Yeah, I think the word that you used is our word. like we hope that they take away hope, know? Hope is the thing that we want to leave them with. And I think we also want everybody to realize, and you said this babe, that is that your marriage is never static. Oftentimes people will think, well, I don't need to go to a marriage conference. I don't need to get help with my marriage or read a marriage book unless I'm in trouble.
Well, that's like saying, I don't need to go to the doctor unless I'm deathly ill or I don't need to get my oil changed in my car unless it breaks down on the side of the road. Like no, that's regular maintenance stuff. So there are people that like, look, we have to work on this. We had a buddy say one time, if you're not working on your marriage, you're working on your divorce because you don't just drift, you know, don't just drift north. We're gonna naturally drift away from each other. And so the hope is that when people listen,
Everything Made Beautiful (23:09.657)
goodness.
Carl Cartee (23:20.14)
that they'll just be able to take one step closer to each other. Like just one step. There's not, some people are so far away that one step still feels like they're miles apart, but they're still one step closer. And then some people are really close, but one step just gets them just a little closer. And so we want to offer hope. Yeah. And we were, I got let go from our church, or it was actually right before.
Everything Made Beautiful (23:22.798)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (23:46.351)
We were speaking at this thing in Tyler, Texas. I'd never been in Tyler, Texas before. Uh, we were speaking at Pine Cove and we're, we have in lunch at this restaurant and we're sitting there and I got to tell you, I have probably never been so discouraged in my life. mean, I was, things were just rough and I knew it wasn't going well. I knew it was going to end well and I was so discouraged. So we're sitting there having lunch and I hear someone say my name.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:01.849)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (24:15.63)
Carl Cartee and I look up and this guy walks to our table and he says, hey, I'm a pastor here in this town and I recognize you because when I think about my call to ministry, I think about you and your songs because when I was 15 and I said yes to Jesus, you were my worship leader at my camp and...
Everything Made Beautiful (24:38.457)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (24:40.854)
I was just a couple of days before seeing you right now listening to these songs that are like at this point, 20 years old. And, and then his wife walks up to the edge of the table and he says, Hey babe, it's, Carl Cartini and Heather. And this girl, she doesn't say anything else to me. She just grabbed me by the shoulders. And she said, do not ever be discouraged. Do not ever be discouraged. What you're doing matters. And if somebody listens to the podcast and they just have one story like that where they, they can,
Everything Made Beautiful (25:00.919)
Wow.
Carl Cartee (25:10.328)
Here's something that we say, and that's our version of telling them, don't ever be discouraged. God is fighting for you. The Lord is on your side. Pick up your head. That's why we do the podcast. if we do every week for 10 years and somebody has one story like that, then I'm in.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:15.224)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:29.539)
Yeah, that's so good. The exact words you needed when you needed it.
Carl Cartee (25:33.679)
I mean, like talk about a right on time word from God. I will never forget that. It honestly changed my life. I started telling everybody I see from that point forward, don't ever be discouraged. And they're like, I want to be discouraged. And I'm like, just don't do it. Right. Right. I mean, well, it truly is like, I mean, we want to sit in it. But if God is for us, who can be against us? Like, take that up and own that and be proud of that. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:37.035)
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:46.617)
That's not one of your options right now.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:58.712)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:01.997)
Yeah. So, you know, what is probably very likely is that the majority of people, married people listening are thinking, yeah, this is some good stuff. Like if I'm not intentionally moving toward my spouse, then I am intentionally drifting apart. If I am not, you know, working on my marriage, I'm working on my divorce. What would you say to the people whose marriages are in full on crisis?
Carl Cartee (26:21.26)
Yeah. Sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:29.889)
Like they are listening to this thinking, well, aren't they just cute as a button? I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure they've had a really difficult road. Like this sounds like your, your basic Christian marriage that has never really walked through anything difficult. So, it's easy for them to have those, pieces of advice. Is there, is there something you could share from a season in your own marriage or something that you would say you have counseled people who are in?
full on crisis as it relates to marriage.
Carl Cartee (27:03.054)
Well, you we've had several seasons in our married life where we were, even within our first year, we would say was one of the hardest years of our 26, 27 years to say like, we made a mistake, what are we doing? Like we are so different, this is not gonna work. And then we had a couple of other different seasons. so, Carl mentioned seasons. For the person I would say who's in crisis,
There is hope, but it's not a quick fix. And we live in such a culture where I just need to listen to this podcast or I need to just read this book or I need to, we don't even read books anymore. We're like, I just need to listen to this thing on YouTube, this YouTube short. It's called a short because we can't listen to a long anything anymore. And so it's just gonna take time. But I would say like we are even with our, you know, story of everything that's happened as of late, we are church people.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:44.249)
Mm-hmm.
Yup.
Carl Cartee (27:58.995)
And as much as the church, people would say, well, I don't go to church because it's so broken or they're hypocrites there. Well, yeah, welcome to the world. We're everywhere. We need the church. so plugging into a local body because you build community not for if you need it, but for when you need it, because you will need community at some point in your life. so we weren't because we weren't designed to do life alone. I'm not just talking about he and I together. I'm talking about we're meant to do life.
together as a body of believers. And that's when sometimes you just are so tired you need somebody to lift you up and to hold you up. And so those people will do that. So that's one way of making sure that even if you're not in crisis, especially if you're not in crisis, plug into somewhere so you're given to somebody else because you'll have a time where you need to draw from that. And then there are good, godly counselors that can help you see things that you might not be able to see.
And I don't think there's as much of a stigma as there used to be around therapy. I think you find a good Christian counselor that can help you navigate some things. And really, the general idea is just mirror blind spots. Like they hold up a mirror to you. A good counselor will do that to say, can you see this in yourself? And then you see it, and God uses that. And then the spirit will work. But it's time. It's an investment of time and energy and resources.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:08.761)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (29:24.844)
We ended up, our oldest son, was, ended up needing a major, major reconstructive surgery on his skull when he was, when he was like six months old. It was one of those things where like, new baby, everything's great, we're cruising along. And then all of sudden overnight, you've got a sick kid and if he doesn't get the surgery, he's gonna go blind and there's, you know, there were all of these things, it's like boom, introduced into your perfect world.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:52.771)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (29:53.455)
a major crisis and for new parents it was the most devastating thing that we could have experienced. Well, we didn't even come close to, I mean, we prayed for our kid, but I also started medicating my pain with pornography. I started just becoming a jerk while I was at the same time, traveling around leading worship. But the worst parts of me started coming out.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:11.213)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (30:22.752)
And also the worst parts of Heather started coming out and all of a sudden the thing that really kind of heated us up and tested us kind of exposed how fragile our happy-go-lucky faith was because when it got heated up, it crumpled pretty fast under the pressure. And we needed help that we couldn't muster up on our own will.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:26.766)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:40.664)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (30:50.786)
So I mean, we wound up for a long time, sitting across from somebody, paying them whatever it costs to help them walk with us through these crisis points. it's happened many times, subsequent times. Every now and then we get to a spot not too long ago, a couple of years ago in our driveway, I yelled at Heather and it was about, it was this ongoing argument that we had been having and the more, you know,
frustrated I got the louder I got until finally it was like we're not doing this until we do it with somebody else. Yeah. And you know so it happens more often than I care to admit but as far as us needing to sit down with somebody and say hey you know we need an objective voice to help us sort this stuff out. So yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:44.545)
glad you said that about therapy doesn't have the stigma now that it used to. And frankly, I wish we would normalize it as like the the abnormal thing is people who don't spend, you know, some time with someone else talking through things. I'm not saying everyone needs to be in therapy all the time. But to your point, there are definite seasons where
in the same way that God did not intend us to do life alone and intended there to be community around us in the church concept, I think the same is true of some of the things that are just above our pay grade of how to navigate because we've, you know, we've never had to and we've never seen them modeled and we've never been taught or we grew up in a
Carl Cartee (32:22.488)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (32:28.654)
Sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:30.603)
in a church or a faith construct that made that seem like that's just the strange people over there on the fringes that have those problems. And if you do X, Y, and Z, your marriage will be great. So I'm grateful that you're kind of demystifying that for people, it isn't having to go and sit with someone and get a different perspective is not.
Carl Cartee (32:46.35)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:55.283)
abnormal or wrong or me or a signal that something is dysfunctional in your marriage. It's more a signal that as is the case with normal humans, everybody doesn't see everything the same way and process everything the same way and respond the same way. So I'm thankful for that and for your willingness to be vulnerable about those parts of your marriage. You you also we didn't talk about this you have
Carl Cartee (33:07.598)
Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:24.205)
four teenage boys. And so you've definitely stacked the deck with the kids and the gender in your household. Tell us a little bit about that. Like what's a typical day in your life with your four boys?
Carl Cartee (33:25.646)
We do. Our mighty men.
Carl Cartee (33:41.679)
Oh gosh. There's lots of farting in the family. This is a family I'm sorry it is, but it's real. We're being vulnerable. means you should talk about we go. Lots of smells other than that. It's really loud. We're still a really loud family and you cannot keep enough food in our house. Like the food just disappears overnight.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:46.422)
Uh-huh.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:03.595)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (34:06.478)
We're like six gallons of milk a week right now and that's where we're a man down. One is in college freshman year so the three that are here were at least six gallons of milk a week. That's because of cereal. They they eat a meal and then they eat a bowl cereal at every meal. Yeah pretty much pretty much so yeah but it's it's so much fun you know.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:15.299)
Six gallons? I just have to circle back. Six gallons?
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (34:32.448)
We've had certainly hard seasons, but I remember people saying, I'll just wait till they're teenage, you know, like that doomsday kind of thing. And I love, I love talking to my almost adult children. Like it's so much fun and it comes with its own challenges. But when they, mean, I loved them when they were babies, but they were babies. didn't give anything to you, but coos and smiles. And now like we have real conversations. They're talking about their faith. They're working things out and it's just, it's interesting and fun. I don't know.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:43.447)
Yes, I feel the same way.
Carl Cartee (35:01.036)
I really love it. And our kids, they're doing ministry with us and I see that as a special grace. You know, we're not asking them to, but they're just saying, hey, how can we help? I mean, even like at Heather's conference, stuff like that, they were everywhere. And it was just, I wasn't on them to be there. They were just there. And it's so, so sweet. I cool. I'm proud of them. It's a cool season.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:08.995)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:25.517)
I remember Heather at your conference realizing that the boy standing with you was your son. And I had the same kind of like, because our kids are ministry kids and they've been with us and it just kind of is a thing that the Scots do, you know? And so it was sweet for me having been in the recipient of that with my own kids to see your son just right there next to you. It was really sweet. So what is now that we've
Carl Cartee (35:32.299)
Yeah.
Carl Cartee (35:37.91)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:54.583)
been vulnerable about some of the hard parts. What's the funniest or most unexpected moment in your marriage that you still like can laugh about today or what are the stories you kind of return to?
Carl Cartee (35:57.144)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (36:04.576)
Yeah. Well, we have, we have one, I'm going to let him share it cause it's really funny, but we laugh every day. Like, like that's the thing that marks our family. Like we laugh multiple times a day about all kinds of things and laughter has just like been a linchpin for our family, but there was one time in particular. So maybe I'll just like qualify this. This is a little PG 13 maybe. I don't know. I think your audience is good for it. Yeah. But anyway, like
Everything Made Beautiful (36:28.247)
Okay, that's alright. Our people can handle it.
Carl Cartee (36:33.506)
I was coming home from work one day and I got a text and I thought maybe there was, let me see the best way to say it, like an afternoon delight was headed my way. And so I came in the house. I spoke to no one, saw no one and went, you know, to my room where I met Heather there. And our room is situated just off of the living room. And like Heather said before, the boys are very loud.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:40.98)
Mm Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:51.47)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Cartee (37:02.914)
So as soon as I basically got in to the bedroom, the boys were almost immediately downstairs, you know, just ruining everything. But one of them said, Where's mom? And then the other one said in her room having sex. And then I heard the third one say, Gross! Screamed it out. And then the last one, I heard him walk in and say, Is dad home? And so
So all of all of that, I mean, that literally happened. I could not have scripted it. It was like like four little characters. Where's mom in her room? Gross. Is dad home? was like, what kind of woman do they think I am? My gosh. Which I had a lot of questions after that, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what?
Everything Made Beautiful (37:39.139)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:47.159)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:50.873)
was going to say, was there an assumption that someone other than dad was there? Yeah.
Carl Cartee (37:56.143)
What I thought was gonna happen did not happen. Everything, you know, we went outside and was what's for dinner?
Everything Made Beautiful (37:59.202)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:02.893)
Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, well, moment over. Yeah. And what would you say is one thing, and maybe you should answer this for each other, because sometimes it's hard for us to answer for ourselves, but what is one thing people might be surprised to learn about each of you?
Carl Cartee (38:05.954)
You're right. Done. Yeah. Well, I was real special.
Carl Cartee (38:25.826)
You go. You mean answered about you? yeah, you answered about me. man. That's good.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:33.411)
This is not a trap, by the way.
Carl Cartee (38:35.39)
Yeah, I know right. You're real funny. I think people can take you as a serious person. Like when you walk in the room, you're kind of like you're like you're naturally leading things and naturally in charge of stuff. But you're real funny like and I don't know if people give you enough time to like let that out or let that leak out. But you make me laugh a lot. Okay. Yeah.
good that's sweet. was getting out of the shower the other day. mean I usually do pretty good with grooming and stuff like that but she looked down at my feet and she said you're growing your toenails out.
I was duly noted. I was trying to think of a nice way, a nice way to say, dude, you need to your toenails. Like, like me growing them out was, was a consideration, It's a new look. I'm trying some different things out. I don't know. Anyway. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:23.085)
So helpful.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:29.721)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (39:39.723)
totally support you being like, what is the way I can ask this that will seem more interested than accusatory?
Carl Cartee (39:44.815)
Yeah. Right. There you go. There you go. No. I laughed a lot. I laughed a lot about that. I thought that was wonderful. Okay. For Carl. But I'm all trimmed up now, by the way. up. He's good. He is so good. Viewers, I'm sure listeners wanted to know. People very happy.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:57.731)
Okay, great. We've solved that.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:04.311)
had just a side note when I was growing up, you know, it was a Southern Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, like so south and the whole thing. And there was a woman there. And at one point, she walked up, we were all kind of standing in the hallway. And she walked up to this lady and said, Huh, most people can't wear yellow, but you certainly have it on. And it was like, yeah, it was just like,
Carl Cartee (40:09.707)
Uh-huh.
Carl Cartee (40:27.182)
You certainly have it on. Nice.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:32.748)
so it was still, it was not a compliment, but she was figuring out a way to say it that she thought would soften the blow. It did not, but that's what that reminded me of. you're your toenails out.
Carl Cartee (40:33.634)
Yeah,
Carl Cartee (40:42.356)
Yeah. yeah. Yeah. There you go. OK, so I think for Carl, because he is an artist, he's a musician. But what I have learned about him that other people don't see is that he is an artist in a lot of other forms. So like he does woodworking. But mostly what he does almost daily is he draws or paints. And so he's got one of those bibles that he can do watercolors in. He's got a sketch pad where it gives him like a prompt.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:59.139)
Mmm.
Carl Cartee (41:12.162)
to draw this and so, and it's usually creative and funny. He'll add like a funny spin to it. those are things like we have this sketch pad that he's done and it was like 365 things to draw and he's finished it and the boys and I will just look through it. Like we wanna look through something for fun. We're like, remember when he did that one? that's so fun. And that one, and that's just something for our family. Like we don't ever show that to anybody and it's personal, but most people I think would be surprised to know that.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:34.015)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:40.749)
Yeah, does the watercolor in the Bible work? Like I see it and I think it would be amazing, but I'd be very worried about the bleeding and all the things.
Carl Cartee (41:50.413)
Yeah, you know, it does get the pages like wrinkled up, but it doesn't bleed like you think it would. So it absorbs, it changes the page, but it kind of gives it a, I don't know, a cool texture, like like a parchment type texture. Yeah. I don't know. And I don't, if you, if you did it on every page, it would be too much. So, you know, but I, I do it from time to time. Yeah. Yeah. Every now and then, like if I need to make a note. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:54.872)
Yeah.
Okay.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:04.077)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:12.129)
Okay. It's every now and then.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:20.365)
Yeah, did you always draw? Did you always draw and always paint?
Carl Cartee (42:20.418)
Like I just drew a picture of Moses.
You know, yes, I don't know why, but like sometimes like if I'm on the phone, I'll draw while I'm talking on the phone or something like that. It's just a way that I can process my world.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:26.755)
Okay.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:32.855)
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:37.539)
Yeah. That, that may be a musician thing, or at least closely tied to that. My husband, he doesn't draw the way that Heather just described you, but like when he does sit down to sketch something, it's usually very accurate. Like he can draw a guy playing a guitar, like very accurately. And so it must be something about the way y'all's brains work, as creators and songwriters. So, well,
Carl Cartee (42:54.294)
No, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.
Carl Cartee (43:03.158)
Maybe so. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:07.321)
I feel like we could talk for four hours and there's, so y'all are gonna have to come back and maybe we'll talk about some other specific things because I've gone in 10 different directions of things that we could talk about. But for this podcast, if we close it right here, I do wanna ask you guys to both answer and you can either answer this jointly or separately.
Carl Cartee (43:10.039)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:31.097)
But we ask all our guests this as the last question of the podcast because this is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and we believe that God is always in the process of redeeming and restoring everything in its time. So if you could design your perfect beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish? And there are no...
guardrails or boundaries in the day. So like if you're normally gluten intolerant, you don't have to be in your perfect, beautiful day. Or if you need to time travel or anything like that, you can do anything in your perfect, beautiful day. So what would yours look like?
Carl Cartee (44:01.966)
my gosh.
Carl Cartee (44:11.466)
I'm going to change mine because I thought about this and it was just like a normal day here, but since I don't have parameters on it, every meal is prepared by somebody else, okay? And I start the day later. Like when I wake up, I start with a slow morning. There's sex involved, it's during the day. It's not in the evening because I'm too tired. Day six.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:17.593)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:32.729)
okay. The boys are not home. The boys are not home. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (44:37.742)
No, they're gone. The boys are not home. There's no, you know, nobody's knocking at the door. The dog's not barking. Um, but I spend the day with Carl at the Louvre in Paris and we just spend the whole day there. I know you did you really? It's cool. All about the thing. So we were able to go, we went once in our early married, early married life and um, we just had, I don't even think we had a one day in Paris. So the Louvre was just part of that day and it was like, I would love
Everything Made Beautiful (44:42.905)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:47.577)
I just got back. I just got back. Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:04.845)
yeah. Yeah.
Carl Cartee (45:07.594)
multiple days there. But if it's a dream day, you know, I would say just because we love history and yeah, I want to hear all the things and I want to learn about every painting and every, every sculpture, everything that's there. And so yeah, that's what we would do. How about you? I think okay, so we would wake up and watch the sunrise over the Grand Canyon, which I love that. It's beautiful. We've done that before. So I like being outdoors. Someone would bring us breakfast.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:12.025)
Time is nothing.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:23.129)
That's so awesome.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:29.881)
Mm.
Carl Cartee (45:37.603)
They're at the Grand Canyon, but they wouldn't say anything to us because they too would understand that the beauty of the canyon has arrested any need to speak. We just look at that. So then we eat breakfast because that's my favorite meal of the day. And then we would go, Heather and I, neither one can surf, but we would be surfing in a shark free ocean and we would be amazing surfers. And we would be like, yes, I'm getting there. We're super tan. We're super tone.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:46.489)
Thank
Carl Cartee (46:05.8)
And like we just like fall asleep on the on the beach there. But like the kind of sleep like it feels like you're in a bed. There's no sand getting on you, but you're on the beach and it's wonderful and so glorious. And but like we're we're worn out from surfing in the shark free ocean. I love that day. Yeah, that's pretty good. It's a good day.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:15.17)
No.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:23.871)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. I like, I think it's interesting and I think this is worth noting that Heather mentioned sex and Carl didn't mention sex. So I just think it's important that we give that, we give that the weight that it's due that, yeah.
Carl Cartee (46:37.71)
Hey! There you go, there you go.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:42.945)
You're also the first people to mention sex in the Perfect Beautiful Day on the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. And I know that all the people who've come before you were thinking it, they just didn't say it. yeah, that'll be the next one. That'll be the next podcast. Well, you guys, thank you so much. First of all, thank you for what you're doing for marriages.
Carl Cartee (46:49.92)
No way! Alright!
Carl Cartee (46:54.478)
Okay, we just need to talk more about it. Yeah. Let's talk about it people.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:08.683)
I have 3000 thoughts on how the local church needs to step up as it relates to marriages, the way that we as believers need to step up for one another as it relates to marriages. And so thank you for what you guys are doing and the way that you're leveraging your story and the story of God's faithfulness to you and your marriage to help other people. Because I think the enemy would want us feeling isolated and alone, which is counterintuitive in a marriage. But I think
that some of what will save marriages is the other people like yourselves going us to it's happened to us too. And there's a way through it. And so I'm really grateful for what you guys are doing. Thank you for being willing to talk about it and to come on the podcast and talk about it.
Carl Cartee (47:55.651)
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having us. We loved it. Thank you for what you're doing. It's an honor to talk to you. I love talking to you. You're so smart and you're doing you're doing so many good things with your ministry. So I'm grateful to be associated with it even in this little podcast episode. So thank you so much. Keep going.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:07.491)
Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:12.907)
Yes. Well, thank you for saying that. And to everybody listening, I'm going to link all of Carl and Heather's stuff in the show notes. You need to be listening to their podcast. You need to be catching them when they're out speaking. All of that information is on their website. I have some ideas about some stuff that need to happen for marriages that I'll be talking to them about. So maybe we'll see you at an event that we can all do together sometime here soon. But I
Absolutely want to encourage everybody listening, whether you feel like your marriage is amazing, whether you feel like your marriage is on the rocks or everywhere in between, consider what the intentional steps you can be taking to pour into your marriage are, be they small or large, because the thing that Heather said is so true. If you're not intentionally working on your marriage, you will drift apart. We don't naturally fall into healthiness.
we naturally fall into decay. And so let's be people who invest in one of the precious gifts that God has given us, which is marriage. So thank you guys for listening to the podcast today and be on the lookout for the ways that God is making everything beautiful, including you. And we'll see you next time.