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“We’re not painters—we’re providing experiences. Painting just happens to be the medium.” —Scott Lollar
“Every time you say the word ‘call,’ you’re limiting your growth.” —Scott
“Make it easy for people to connect with you and schedule that first appointment, if nothing else.” —Scott
“Access is part of the experience—before the brush ever hits the wall.” —Mark Black
Host Scott Lollar is a 35-year veteran of the painting industry and founder of Consulting4Contractors. The 'Success Beyond The Brush' Podcast serves as a touchpoint to painting contractors who have hustled, sacrificed, and worked hard to get their business to where it is today. Now, you need the guidance, expertise, experience, and team to make it into the multi-million-dollar company of your dreams. You'll hear stories and interviews from "Brothers of the Brush" and "Sisters of the Sprayer" who have been where you are and are charting a new course for their company's success. Listen in and go beyond $1,000,000!
From Access to Success: Elevating Painting Contractor-Client Interactions
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[00:00:00]
Introduction and Episode Overview
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Scott: I think we have a hard time politely disqualifying. Like, "Hey, this is our minimum for our company." I don't think you need to apologize. People go to the Ritz Carlton where they could also go to the Motel Six, right? I mean, they've made a choice to go to spend more money for a different experience, so, I think it's fine to say it, and then we're done, then they make the appointment and we get that information and we're ready to go. I think the sales team should be looking at their appointments in advance, and I'm talking days, if not a week in advance if possible.
Because the last thing you want is to go to an appointment and not realize it's a double wide or whatever.
Welcome to "Success Beyond the Brush", powered by Consulting 4 Contractors, where we help growth-minded contractors scale smarter, lead stronger, and build more profitable businesses. In this week's episode, we're joined by Mark Black and Scott Lollar for a powerful conversation on elevating your client interactions, how to communicate with clarity, set better expectations, and turn every [00:01:00] project into a referral engine.
Whether you're managing one crew or running a multi-state operation, this episode is packed with practical tools to help you deliver a next level client experience.
Mark: We're welcoming our listeners. Thanks for listening in.
The Importance of Client Access and Communication
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Mark: Once again, we have Scott Lollar with Consulting 4 Contractors. We're going to be talking about access, communication, and our customers being able to reach out to us. Now Scott, it's interesting that through our growth in contractor think in our brains, we think, well, we need more trucks, we need more people, we need to expand our offerings to be able to offer more. But it's amazing how few people think about actual access, and this goes deeper than just blasting our phone number on our vans or our billboards or our social media.
Scott: Yeah. In fact, I actually know there's research that says more than [00:02:00] ever people don't want to use the phone. They don't want to call you. One of the things we talk about a lot with our clients is, "Are you easy to work with?" Right?
Online Scheduling and Pre-Qualificationc
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Scott: So I'm an advocate for all of our clients for an online scheduler. Now, there's a lot of people that are really opposed to that because they want to qualify deeply, but we can still qualify.
But we know that there's a lot of people with busy lives that want to schedule an appointment with a home improvement person, painter for us, at a weird hour or on a weekend. And they want to schedule in the moment for a time that's convenient for them. So, being able to go online and select a time that works for them, put their information in, get a confirmation is very important.
And I think that so many people, if they're dialing and you don't answer, are going to keep going. You know, I'm an old guy, right? So back in the day, we used to have these answering machines, and [00:03:00] actually they were a cassette thing that you came home and pressed a button, right? Then it went to digital.
Now. I don't even know it goes to your cell phone, I guess. But, this idea of being very comfortable leaving that message and again, return call. Whereas now we're an immediate gratification society, so, "hey, I'm, I need a painter, I want to call one now, I want to make an appointment. I want to go." And if there's no answer or if they're leaving a message, they just move on.
Mark: I think you touched on it earlier though, you hit the nail on the head. Because I've had conversations with many contractors who feel like, "well, I either give the public a hundred percent access to my time and to my schedule, or I make them leave a message". How can it be both? How can we verify and pre-qualify while not losing customers?
Handling Appointments and Pre-Qualification Questions
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Scott: So there's no reason we can't pre-qualify. We can do that in our scheduling app, and we're going to ask them to answer 6, 7, 8 questions. Really clear, use dropdowns when we can. We want to know, of course, their name, [00:04:00] their phone number, their email, and their address. Right? That's critical.
And then we'd like to know where did they find us? You know, was it an online thing? Was it a Facebook thing? Was it a referral? Was it designer? Whatever our lead criteria is, they should pick one. I think it's always important to ask them their expectation for timing, right? Hey, I need something done yesterday.
You know, sometimes people like to ask that question. And then, I think it's appropriate to tee up any kind of money question you have right here. Do you have a budget in mind? We've identified that jobs under say, 2,500 are just not a sweet spot for us.
So we might just say right then and there, just to let you know, our minimum, contract is 2,500. Do you believe your project fits within that constraint? It's not necessarily rude or arrogant to say that because you're going to go there and you're going to say it anyhow.
And so I [00:05:00] think we have a hard time politely disqualifying. And that's a, that's a disqualifying question. Like, hey, this is our minimum for our company. people go to the Ritz Carlton where they could also go to the Motel Six, right? I mean, they've made a choice to go to spend more money for a different experience. So, I think it's fine to say it, and then we're done. Then they make the appointment and we get that information and we're ready to go. Now, I do think it's a mistake that our sales team and most of who we're working with have more than just one salesperson. I think the sales team should be looking at their appointments in advance, and I'm talking days, if not a week in advance if possible.
Because the last thing you want is to go to an appointment and not realize it's a double wide or whatever. No offense, Mark. I know you live in Southern Illinois and double wide, it's good thing, but you know, we hear this all the time. I can't believe I drove out there and it was this, right? Well, I think they got through our qualifying questions or they lied possibly, but we simply didn't [00:06:00] look at the appointment and go, this isn't an area that we don't service or don't service well, or it's too far, or, Hmm, the description seems weird. I want two accent walls in the front door painted. Right. We could see that maybe in the description that they gave us, but we simply didn't do the work and go, Hey, this looks like a challenge here.
So I think it's appropriate then to call them well in advance of the appointment. If you're going to cancel an appointment, the last thing you should be doing is at the last minute or the night before, right? You don't know, they might have taken time off work or arranged carpooling or who knows what.
So you have to be respectful, but I think it's appropriate to call and say, Hey Mark, it's Scott with, you know, such and such painting company. Do you have a minute? I have a few questions and then you can just get into it. And then if, if it's a truly a bad fit, then I think you disqualify.
Now a lot of people go, I hate being qualified. I hate the sales thing. Right? And I have a personal [00:07:00] approach that works for me, is I make it about me and say, Hey, it's not you, it's us. We don't do that very well. We've found that when the jobs are like this or this small or this, whatever, that we end up not doing a great job because we're built for different things and we're probably going to disappoint you and I don't want to disappoint you.
So if it's okay with you, I'd like to cancel this appointment. Because I, one of our values is respect, and I'd like to respect your time. Right? So you can make it into something that doesn't make them feel bad. Hey, you're not good enough for my visit. Right? That's what, what we are trying to avoid. But you can make it in a way that they don't feel that, right?
Personal Anecdotes and Client Experience
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Scott: I have a ridiculous example that, um, my wife will be mortified, but she probably won't listen. I typically hate making an appointments for my haircut, right? So I go down the street to, you know, the, Sports Clips, the Great Clips, the whatever Clips, and I look in the window, if there's no line, I go in.
I don't care who cuts my hair. [00:08:00] I'm not a model, you know? Sometimes I come home from those appointments and my, and my wife looks at me like, who cut your hair? And then what that sounds like to me is, what is Edward Scissorhands or maybe could have done a better job. Even so, I live in a town that has some bougie salons.
I said, you know, it's a Sunday, I'm going to see if there's a salon that would cut my hair on a, on a Sunday. There's gotta be right? I found one. And the salon allowed you to make an online appointment. And so I could make one like for an hour from that moment, and I went in. Now the funny part is that each stylist has listed their pricing for their men's haircut, and the minimum was $35.
And so I just said, give me, there's one of the options was whoever's available. So I did that and I was thinking that means I'm getting $35 haircut. Well, I went in and Miguel, who to this day cuts my hair, was available, and, he cut my hair and went to the counter and they said, that's going to be [00:09:00] $75.
And I said, oh, you got me. But with a tip, so I'm, I'm talking like, close to a hundred dollar haircut. Right? That's ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. But you know, that it, it met my criteria, which was I wanted to go on a Sunday because that's when I'm thinking about it and have a few minutes. I want to be able to make an online appointment.
Those are my criteria. So I think that the moral of the story is not to get a hundred dollars men's haircut. The moral of the story is they made it easy for me to schedule an appointment when it was good for me, even at the last minute when I wanted, and they got my business. And so that's really, this beginning of a relationship with a prospect, right?
Hey, these people are professional. Hey, they're convenient, they ask good questions. They let me schedule on my, my time. And I think that's the start of this, journey that you're trying to lead them through, that we're not painters, we're actually, providing experiences.
It just happens to be in [00:10:00] painting and the first experience is a good one.
Mark: That's exactly right, and I love your haircut analogy because you can get a $20 haircut at Great Clips, Sport Clips, or you can get a $75 haircut. Either way, your, your hair got cut. Now we could obviously argue the intricacy, how well it was cut, you know how well it was feathered. I, I don't know, haircutting, I wouldn't know a good haircut from a bad haircut, but I would also say that about most of our customers, would not know the difference between an a plus paint job or a C minus paint job.
It's blue. Therefore it looks good to me. it's a great example though to showcase how that worked for you.
Scott: Yeah. and I think that some of our competition especially the ones that are not as professional as us are playing the, they didn't answer the call because they might be the painter. They're up on a ladder then they try to call back, they leave a message and there's a, this phone tag.
And I think that all of those activities and those misses are, reducing [00:11:00] your, close ratio. It's clo It's reducing the probability of you getting that work because you're demonstrating that this is kind, of a hassle, right? We're going to have to work a little harder and you're just demonstrating that we're easy to work with, and, we're going to make it easy for you.
Well, before we jump back into the conversation, let's take a quick moment to talk about what really drives a successful contracting business. And the truth is, success doesn't happen by accident. It comes from having the right systems, the right people, and the right mindset guiding every job, every estimate, every client interaction, and that's exactly what Consulting 4 Contractors is here to help you do. Whether you are trying to step outta the day-to-day chaos or build stronger leadership across your team, or finally get control of your numbers, their coaches have been in the trenches. They've built multimillion dollar companies and they know how to help you scale without losing your sanity.
[00:12:00] So if you're ready to stop reacting and start leading, head over to Consulting4Contractors.com. That is consulting, the number 4, contractors.com. There you'll find resources, training, and real world guidance designed to specifically for contractors who are serious about growth.
Take that next step and start building a business that works for you, not the other way around. Now let's get back into the episode.
Mark: Scott, obviously you've given us some personal examples in your life, where maybe this is a, a buying pattern, this is how you like to do business. You like to find places that let you schedule your time. And some of our listeners may be saying, well, that may be him or his personal preference, or maybe his geographical location in busy Chicago.
Maybe that's how they do it, but not down here in Mississippi. And, and so speak to what you've seen in your lifetime. The trend in, probably the trades in general and buying habits as, as our [00:13:00] clientele can be younger sometimes, and even, you're a great example, somebody who may be not from a younger generation, but really prefers the autonomy or, or the ability to, to schedule their own work on their own time.
Trends in Client Communication and Automation
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Scott: Are you thinking about like the texting and the communication style for younger generations that
Mark: I guess I'm simply saying in my lifetime I have seen a trend change in the buying habits of a trade. You would call a plumber or an electrician, have a conversation, schedule an estimate, and even in my short, relatively short career, 20 years, I have seen that change to where, like you said, people, it may be 10 o'clock at night, that's when they're scheduling a painting estimate because that's when they're thinking about it.
Scott: Yeah, exactly right. And I think they want to get their questions answered through some FAQs or understand the process, make their appointment, and during the daytime hours when you can manage this, a lot of people are going to want to engage you in a texting thread, [00:14:00] right?
So if that's okay with you or you have the staff to do that, I think it's okay. I've not seen that a lot of these bots, I mean, I know this is going to get better, but, that can be helpful to you. But I don't think most people are getting what they want out of the bots. But, you know, texting is also very, very common. I'm 60. I'm the last year of a baby boomer, actually I was born in 1964 and I'm very comfortable texting with you. Now, an interesting thing happened a few weeks ago. We needed a new dryer, and my wife was very satisfied with what we had. I said, well, if I just got you another one of these, would you like that?
She says, yeah, that's great. So I'm looking for the model. I engage a website of an appliance store. And I wasn't finding an exact match. So I began a chat and a salesperson popped up, and I know it was not AI, it was a person, because I asked for this model. They said, yes, we have that.
Here's how much it is. I said, great, when can I get it delivered? They said next Wednesday. Will that work? Yes. Then he just [00:15:00] asked me a few questions. Do you want a warranty? Do you want it installed? Do you want the old one taken away? Do you want us to clean your vents? I think that was the extent of the question, and that was all over text.
Over, I don't know, three and a half minutes. He then proceeded to put together an invoice, texted and emailed it to me for me to pay it while he waited. Then the transaction was done and my dryer was delivered.
Mark: And you never spoke to a person?
Scott: Never spoke to a person, so, and that was very fulfilling to me. Because it was not a, I wasn't excited to buy a dryer.
I'm not a person that likes to research dryers, and I did not get another price for the dryer. I did not crosscheck it again, I just, I just bought it. Right. And so, you know, for those that poo poo the fact that some people just want to go buy something and they kind of have a number in their head, actually, a lot of people are ready to buy and they're just looking for someone to come out and give them the number and make it happen.
Mark: [00:16:00] I was going to comment in your example, you knew the exact model, you knew exactly what you wanted. All you needed was a price. So maybe not an exact fair comparison to a potential prospect who maybe they know they need some painting done, but they really don't know what they need. That transaction probably couldn't be closed through a text thread necessarily, but certainly could schedule an appointment.
Scott: You could ask some pre-qual questions through a text if that was, useful to you. What I hear, especially with the Facebook crowd, which is not our favorite marketing tool. So, no, no, hate please. But, um, that these people are, you know, getting called and getting called immediately, and they're feeling like we have to call them because I want to qualify them because so many of those leads are not great leads.
Right. And so I understand that, but I don't think that we eliminate the qualifying just because we allow them to schedule an online link. Right. And I, I just disagree with a hundred percent. We ask them good [00:17:00] questions that lead them down a sales funnel, and at any point that one of our questions disqualifies them, then they leave.
Why is that not okay? I think it, can be really helpful. We have had solutions for all sorts of people that had multiple regions, had multiple salespeople. There's lots of ways you can manage this through some very good programs.
So again, I think it's a way to get the people to what they need, which is an appointment, to have a paint quote. It's really essential to have that option.
Mark: While you make some good points, allow me to play devil's advocate because you know, somewhere in our listening audience, there's somebody sitting in their truck with their arms crossed saying, but I need that, that verbal communication to, to feel the customer, to understand their pain, to empathize with them, to begin my sales process, to to set myself apart as the expert.
I want to talk to my customer. [00:18:00] What, what do you say to that person?
Scott: Most people are looking to grow their business in some form or fashion. I'm not saying everybody wants to be $10 million. I'm just saying most people are trying to grow past where they are today. That is a capacity issue, right? So you, as the owner started, and you were the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, right? So you're wearing all the hats and that's really what we're all doing, and as coaches, as consultants,in our professional associations, we're helping people understand delegation, automation and elimination really, quite frankly, to use the Michael Hyatt terminology.
If you want to talk to everybody because that's just the way it is, and that feels warm to you. I just think there's some head trash and there's a ceiling to how many people you can talk to at one time, at any given time, and you are going to be the bottleneck and the limiter of your success and your growth, [00:19:00] because you're simply going to run out of time. If you're talking to everyone, this is not so much on the sales side, but one thing we always talk about with people when I'm listening to someone and they say, our process is we call, I stop them. Why do you call? Well, because... When we call someone, we automatically extend the time it takes for that task because you have to extend a pleasantry.
How's your day? Is this a good time? Then you get into your, your conversation and you know, then they might have a comment, it's a beautiful day, my dog died. Whatever, right? So what, what is a 15 second, you know, communication through a text is now a five minute call, or more. And you're doing this all day long for all of your things.
It's a sales call, it's a set up, a project call. It's a, we're on our way call, we're coming tomorrow call. It's a call from the painter, I have a problem. Every time we say the word call, [00:20:00] it literally limits our ability to grow. So I think as many things that can be pushed to electronic media, whether it's text or email, or online, you know, programs is going to help you grow and has fewer limitations.
Because lots of people can run those programs. It doesn't have to be a slick um, phone person that is really eloquent and can read a nice script and ask good questions and blah, blah, blah. Right? It can be anybody, right? So I just think that the person that says, you don't understand, people just love me. They tell me that they bought from me because of me, okay? But I'm just telling you, that's not going to get you to where you want to go. So you're going to have to work through that eventually.
Mark: It certainly is a limiter in your capacity for sure. And I think even in, the way we buy groceries and, and, [00:21:00] um, takeout, so much has changed online. I know my wife looks for those and purposely shops, to your point about the haircut, she shops at the places that will allow her to book and pay online without having to talk with somebody.
Scott: Yeah, exactly.
Mark: We also know that traditionally, hiring a contractor is among the most hated chores in America, whether that's painters or not, but we certainly fall in that category. The idea of finding somebody to do something, some kind of work at your house, getting them to your house, and then completing it to the expectations that you have in your mind of what that project's going to look like is near impossible. And I would think we could do a lot for ourselves as contractors to set ourselves apart, make ourselves easier to access and easier to hire.
Scott: Yeah. So if nothing else, in this conversation, if you got out of this to look at the process and just [00:22:00] see where your, your limiters are or where your bottlenecks are, make it easy for people to connect with you and schedule that first appointment if nothing else,
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Scott: that would be great.
At PCA Expo last year, I sat in and I cannot remember his name to save my life, but I will link to this video. I thought it was brilliant and he recorded a video that they sent their clients, their prospect before the appointment and it showed them exactly what to expect in the visit, and it, it, he filmed it, he claims on an iPhone, with his wife. Not professional, not a big expense. Showed him driving up, getting out, shaking the hand, you know, the whole thing. And it really, I thought it was really brilliant because it showed the client, here's what we're going to do together when I show up. Because to your point, you just said something that triggered me, which is people are anxious about this engagement, about this, contractors are, you know, [00:23:00] unreliable and they're, they're late and they're, they're all this stuff. And, and I thought that video was amazing how, they just sent it, they recorded it, put it on YouTube, and then they sent it to the client and said, Hey, here's what you can expect during our visit,
Mark: To know what to expect.
Scott: Hundred percent.
And so it kind of talked to them about, here's how much time you should allot. And you know, so it did kind of give an expectation, this is what they expected from the client too, right? Don't just tell me to walk around and send it to me later. No, I'm going to expect some engagement and conversation. But I thought it was really good and how it warmed up the event, right? So that can be typically scary or cold versus hey, they're actually already showing you an estimator. Now it might not be that one, but showing you how it's going to look and all that. So I thought, I thought that was a really creative and very well done approach to warming up the appointment.
Mark: I love that idea, and I don't know how many other companies [00:24:00] encounter this, but occasionally we get customers who really don't think they have any thing to do during an estimate. I told you I need my house painted, so just go by whenever and they're not even at the appointment or don't feel like it would be necessary.
That video would also showcase the importance of your feedback. We're doing this together.
Scott: Yeah.
Mark: A great idea.
Scott: Yep.
Mark: I also, if there may be people who, like me, I, I'm probably the easiest mark in the world as far as sales. I'll buy anything from anybody and I actually do get nervous when I have a professional car salesman approach me, because I'm probably going to buy whatever he's selling.
And I think there may be a little bit to our customers who are buying from us, who I have a professional coming, whatever he says, how can I argue with it? It'd be nice to know that, that this, probably isn't going to be a high pressure sales tactic, but I do want to make sure we're meeting your expectations.
I want to know exactly what you want.
Scott: Yeah, a hundred percent. Even [00:25:00] acknowledging that this won't be high pressure, that we want you to take some space and think about it and, you know, just to tell them this isn't even going to be that kind of a, an appointment. We are just going to be, conversational, collaborative, helpful, whatever.
Right.
Mark: Thank you for your expertise, Scott, and as always, your insight into this. It's really not an either or situation. It's a how do we provide the most access to our customers for as many different buying types and groups as possible and making our customer experience even better.
[00:26:00]