The Dallas Dirt podcast with Candy Evans takes you inside the real estate news stories you’ll find daily on CandysDirt.com and beyond, giving you more insight, juicier details, and the inside scoop from one of Dallas’ most well-connected real estate personalities.
Speaker: Welcome to Dallas Dirt.
I'm your host, April Towery.
I'm the Dallas City Hall reporter
and I am here today with Jamie
Jolly from the Real Estate Council.
Welcome.
Thank you for having me, April.
Appreciate it.
tell me about yourself.
You, came to the Real Estate
Council recently, a few
months ago from Uptown Dallas.
Speaker 2: I have been
with Uptown Dallas Inc.,
which is the public improvement district,
and had been working with them for the
last few years and, came over to Trek.
20 years ago, I was the Director
of Programs and Public Policy,
as well as one of the lobbyists
for the Real Estate Council.
And, so it was a great opportunity
for me to reconnect with this
organization and this industry.
And, yes, so I started back, I guess it's
now been about two and a half months.
Speaker: And how's it going?
You, we don't like to use the
word replacing Linda McMahon, but,
Linda McMahon was there before
you and she was very well known
in a powerhouse in the community.
were you kind of watching what was
going on at the real estate council
and thinking maybe I'll throw my hat in
Speaker 2: Linda was actually on
the board of the real estate council
back when I was on staff originally.
So I did know Linda a little bit.
I'd obviously tracked over the
years, what the real estate
council was doing in the community.
everything from when I left we were
working on the Clyde Warren Park
project and then seeing them launch the
Dallas Catalyst project and some of the
different initiatives throughout the city.
It just seemed like a great opportunity.
I really love membership organizations.
I find that when people are paying
member dues to be involved with
an industry and an organization.
They're very passionate
and they're very focused.
And, it's just makes my job really easy
as their, president and CEO, allows me to
pull in great partners and help, not just
the industry, but the greater community.
Speaker: what is TREC and what's
the benefit of joining that group?
Speaker 2: Right.
So the Real Estate Council, it's
been around well over 30 years
and it is the trade association
for commercial real estate.
you think about all the developers,
the banks, title companies, real
estate companies that are really
involved in all the major commercial
real estate in North Texas.
That's our membership.
We want to make sure that our members
are keeping up to date on all the
issues that are relevant to their
business, but also we're training
that next generation of leaders.
when you think of some of the
icons in Dallas commercial real
estate, those are people that are
on the back end of their career.
They're finding their time.
spent differently these days.
They're retiring.
So we want to make sure that that next
generation is ready to step in and
not just be good at their work when it
comes to commercial real estate, but
really be invested in this community.
the commercial real estate industry has
been great partners with the city and
not just developing new developments
that are bright and shiny, but also
focusing on areas that are underdeveloped
and underserved communities.
Speaker: So what is what is the
commercial real estate outlook right now?
Speaker 2: So we are coming
off a couple of rough years.
It's been a little bit difficult.
the capital market's been tough
but I talk to other people across
the nation and they're like
Dallas is so unique and different.
We continue to have a
very strong market here.
We continue to see Strong possibilities,
new companies coming in, new, people
that want to move into our community,
bring their jobs to our community.
Economic development is still very
strong in our city and in the region.
although we have seen a little
bit of a dip in development,
some projects have been delayed.
I think we're starting
to come out of that.
And we're very hopeful that over the
next 12 to 18 months, we will start to
see a little bit more of a rebound in
the office market and in retail, and
just looking at how our, developers
and investors thinking about commercial
real estate in the North Texas region.
Speaker: How do you
advocate for or recruit
Speaker 2: So we're not necessarily on
the front lines of economic development.
We're not out looking for
the businesses to bring here.
What we're doing is working with the
commercial real estate professionals
that are, Finding them office space and
making sure that there's new construction
coming online so that they have a
place to call corporate headquarters.
The city is very focused on things
that impact commercial real estate.
So public safety sidewalks pedestrian
enhancements Any of those kind of things
that are relevant to a project being
successful We are keeping an eye on those
and working with our partners at the city
Speaker: Your experience as a lobbyist
or public affairs professional, probably
gives you some insight into, how to best.
Lobby or advocate for those things.
do you think that's an asset
that you bring to track?
I think
Speaker 2: lobbyists often get a bad
name, but I think what it really is
about is understanding the issues,
related to a particular industry.
It is about building those
relationships at city hall.
knowing who to call on to say, did
you even know this was a problem?
we have developers in this
phase of permitting, but to
get to this phase, there are 17
other steps they have to take.
did you know, this is so difficult
having those kinds of conversations
and having the relationships to
be able to pick up the phone.
That's very important.
There's a lot of change at City Hall
right now, and we've been able to
build good relationships with some of
the newer staff that have come in and
and also our existing relationships.
Trek's been around quite a while, and
we're fortunate that we know our way
around City Hall, and we know who we
can call on and kind of help us to
better understand how we can respond.
Do business in a better
way in the city of Dallas.
Speaker: What are the big issues
that matter to the commercial
real estate industry right now?
Speaker 2: So I would say let's focus
locally you brought it up, but I have
to bring it up because everybody I
don't know why I get to own the issue.
But digital kiosks when I was
uptown Dallas, it was an issue.
It really comes down to public safety.
It's something we don't want
to see on our sidewalks.
we feel like that's kind of
backwards when you put a kiosk in
the middle of a sidewalk whenever
there's been so much attention on
pedestrian safety and walkability.
So we want to make sure
that that's considered.
it's unfortunate that it would be less
revenue to the city if we didn't do the
digital kiosk program But we feel like
there's better ways to bring in the
right revenue We know that's important
for the city and we understand that we
want to be a partner in helping identify
New ways to bring in new revenue.
So that would be just one of the issues.
parking reform is up for discussion
we're working hand in hand with our our
city partners and others other industry
You I would say with parking reform, a
lot of the conversation is eliminating
parking any developer who is putting
a project together, that's looking at
who's their potential tenant, whether it
be retail office, they are considering
what parking requirements they have.
They're going to need to entice the
right tenant to their development each
project is different and unique and there
is no standard that's best served For
our commercial real estate developers
and the city currently I think if
you have street part or your is about
10, 000 a parking spot is the cost.
If you put it in a garage,
it's about 50, 000.
So it's, it's making the pricing of
everything from housing to retail to
construction costs go up, which ultimately
are going to get passed to the consumer.
So, we think there's another hurdle there
that we can eliminate by eliminating
those parking standards and knowing
that we still need to work together
and make sure that we have adequate.
parking, but also we need to leave it up
to those that are building the projects
and understand who the customer is they're
building for, what kind of dynamics they
have that are going to weigh in on their
decisions about how to park their project.
Speaker: What are the most
attractive selling points
about Dallas to a new business?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a native Dallasite.
I was born at Presby Hospital here in
Dallas, and it's been exciting for me
Through my lifetime of seeing Dallas
evolve and just watching the growth
that's happening here, not just in
the city, but throughout the region.
Dallas has such a can do attitude.
people think it's, cliche, but it's true.
When you look at some of the big
projects we've taken on as a city, Some
of the industries that we brought to
North Texas, and all the hubbub that's
going on right now with Yall Street
and the Convention Center, remodel.
I think there's a lot to be said
about what is available and the
opportunities that exist here in our city.
it's still affordable, to build
here and, Move here compared
to a lot of other cities.
We need to still work on that
affordability And making sure that
housing is affordable in the area But
I do think that is why people bring
their jobs here and we have great
talent when I was over in uptown
dallas, the talent here is amazing.
When you look at the concentration of,
tech banking industry and commercial real
estate, there's just a great talent pool.
And that's really what these
companies are looking for.
Tell me about Yall Street.
What's this concept?
Yeah.
So, I had the opportunity to get
a little bit of a brief on it,
but also, I heard the governor
speak the other day at the Dallas
citizens council and talking about it
creating an opportunity for us to,
create the Wall Street we imagined
that will cater to industries unique
to this area, but also that have
somewhat been ignored when it comes
to normal Wall Street, if you will.
And so I think People see opportunity
in North Texas and bringing that capital
here in investing it, through that
entity is a great opportunity for Texas.
It's well funded.
several investors are eager
and ready to get going.
I think they've already claimed
stake on where the office will be,
at Knox, so it'll be interesting
to see how that evolves over time.
I think it's good for the capital
markets and it's great for Texas.
Speaker: tell me about this Uptown
Dallas public improvement district.
What is a public improvement district?
Speaker 2: I've always known about
public improvement districts, but
working for one was unique and different
in Uptown, a lot of people don't
understand what is defined as Uptown.
if you look at the boundaries, it's
Haskell over by North Dallas High School.
down the Katy Trail on the west side
and then across Clyde Warren and up 75.
within that area, property owners
have committed to investing extra tax
into improvements within the district.
Uptown Dallas Inc.
was, focused on a couple of key areas.
First being public safety.
not only uptown Dallas,
but downtown Dallas Inc.
And other public improvement
districts are very focused on.
We know that our D.
P.
D.
Is stretched thin.
We know that the resources are limited.
where I think Districts have a good
opportunity is they are the feet on
the ground every day in the district.
They understand the dynamics
and so a lot of them have their
own public safety initiatives.
at Uptown Dallas, we had a
private security company.
We also employed off duty dpd
to help with some late night
hours and things like that.
So public safety is important, building
community, making sure you have
opportunities for communities to engage.
Uptown is such a gem in Texas and
especially here in Dallas because
you have a historic neighborhood.
You have an area that's growing.
I mean, there's I don't know how many
cranes in the air right now, but growing
with new construction and office and
also in apartments And then you have a
fairly young population a lot of people
start their career living in uptown.
I lived in uptown 20 years ago and
so I think Uh, just making sure
that you're creating that community.
So people want to stay in the area.
They want to work in the area we focused
a lot on pedestrian safety it's taking
extra tax revenue that property owners
have designated and putting it back into
public improvements within the district.
the largest one in Dallas
is Downtown Dallas, Inc.
And Uptown Dallas is a little bit smaller
as far as the public improvement district.
Speaker: So it's like a TIF district,
the Tax Increment Financing District?
Speaker 2: It's just,
there's no set time window.
There is a separate Board of Directors
and non profit entity that manages that.
District.
they decide where the
funds are being spent.
each 7 to 10 years, the Public Improvement
District Board has to be reauthorized,
which means they have to go back out to
all property owners to ask if they will
continue to pay their tax assessment
to the Public Improvement District.
it's a good tool to have.
I think it's worked really well in Dallas.
There's, I think currently about
13 public improvement districts.
Speaker: I need to look into that.
I was going to ask you about your, Dallas
Catalyst project, the Mill City project.
You have a leadership, group
that is affiliated with TREC.
Can you tell me about that?
Speaker 2: So our Associate Leadership
Council, ALC, as a lot of people know it,
this is our leadership development group.
And so this year's class project, they
chose a project in our district that
we're focused on this year in Mill City.
there was an old ST Luke's Methodist
Church building that had been donated
to a local nonprofit, and they were able
to work with that nonprofit to gut the
building and make it where they can use
it for more of a development facility.
they help people that
have been incarcerated.
They're coming back into the
community to get up to speed on job
skills and how to manage finances.
They also do some training
on low voltage electricity.
Electrician work.
So they're actually doing the training
so these folks can go out and get jobs in
our community the ALC class went out did
their own fundraising and then received
a grant from our community investors
program to do some work in the district
and Their project I would say they're
probably going to wrap up construction
in february but it's been exciting to see
kind of that change in the community and
More people Come by and see the project.
They want to know who's working on it.
And how can we find out more?
so we have that group and then
also our young guns group.
They came in and partnered with a
program in south dallas fair park
that to provide different services
to help, is community development.
We picked weeds and landscaped and took
down some Old fencing and just really
helped on the beautification and then
we're also doing some on the outside
facade of the building The building
is used as a couple of retail spaces
in there But there's like a dentist
that comes in and donates services
on saturdays There are there's a
food bank that operates out of there.
There's some entrepreneurial training
it's a really great community center
where we find that Mill City is such
an underserved area of our city.
It's just on the fringes
there of Fair Park.
And so we've committed to three
years, minimum of three years
of work in that, that community.
those are the first two projects.
we will continue work on the next
few projects over the next few years.
Hopefully we'll have a new
project to announce here soon.
Speaker: I went to an event a while back
where, some representatives from track.
We're talking about a
community land trust.
Is that still in the works?
Speaker 2: Dallas authorized
for there to be community land
trust developed within the city.
we've seen them.
happen already in, Fort Worth just
stood up a community land trust.
Houston has one as well.
And what it is, is the tool is really,
Trek will not own the
community land trust.
We are one of about seven or eight
partners that have come together.
We're forming a board of directors
currently, and we're helping to secure the
initial seed funding a land trust works
different ways in different communities.
Some of it is to go in and acquire land so
that we can help make it more affordable
for people to purchase and build on.
Some of it is you come in and work
with a developer to actually build
different projects on, whether it be
apartments or townhomes or duplexes.
It's also worked in a unique way where
cities are experiencing gentrification.
you may have an area where someone's
lived in their house for 30 years,
but because of property values going
up and property taxes going up,
they're at risk for losing their home.
The land trust can actually come in
and buy the land and do a 99 year
land lease back to the homeowner.
the only stipulation is when they
go to, like, sell the property,
it has to say, affordable.
It can't grow exponentially.
It can only grow based on a market
rate that's agreed upon in advance.
the goal is that you don't just build
a one time project that's affordable
for the first five years, 10 years,
but you're actually putting a product
in place that's affordable over
a long, expanded amount of time.
And that's what we think will move
the needle when it comes to more
affordable housing in North Texas.
Speaker: hear my heart with this
question, but you guys have a lot
of, wealthy, big business members why
is it important for you to intersect
those relationships with philanthropy
and, things like affordable housing?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
So I think where this started decades ago
was, You see a need and a lot of times
some of these more underserved areas in
our community, developers aren't going
there or maybe they're smaller developers
that it makes sense for them to be in
that part of the community, but they
don't have the experience they need.
Or there's a non profit that sees
the vision and wants to address it.
What we've always been really good at
as a community, The real estate council
is providing our technical expertise.
we don't just bring money
to the table because money
doesn't always fix everything.
A lot of it takes our technical expertise.
So we have lawyers, we have bankers,
we have developers, we have brokers.
They are actually sitting down
with these partners, whether it
be, an emerging developer or it
could be a nonprofit in the area.
And they're working
through their challenges.
They may say, you know what?
I tried to buy this piece of land.
It's owned by the city.
How do I buy it?
I don't know how to get.
It's just a matter of not
understanding that business.
And we're able to bring those
folks forward and help Make that
process more manageable for the
non profits and, and, and the
developers, the emerging developers.
So I think that's what makes
us unique and different.
I also think we all believe that our
core is the heart of the region and
we're only as strong as our core.
So when we look at downtown Dallas
and the surrounding areas, we need to
make sure that Development is not just
happening in one pocket or another, that
we're seeing city wide development, that
there's equality in development, that
there's opportunity across the region.
that's where our partners have been
great at helping us identify needs.
the work we're doing with Dallas
Catalyst Project in Mill City.
was brought to us by a member.
along with other proposals our membership
voted to spend a million dollars over
the next three years in that community,
helping move the needle on some of the
projects that they think is important.
It's not projects that we're
bringing to their community.
It really is things that they're
owning and the ideas that they have.
And we're helping bring some technical
expertise and funding to the table.
It's that whole partnership.
Speaker: that was such a clunky question,
and you answered it so gracefully.
I was going to ask you how TREC
has changed over the past 20 years
since you came in as a young,
Speaker 2: I know a young
professional back then.
Well, it's funny.
There was, I think we had
seven on staff at the time.
our staff has definitely grown.
that was when we first launched our first
kind of catalyst project, which was at the
time we invested initial 1, 000, 000 into
the feasibility of Rogers Deck Park is
what we were calling it back in the day.
And so it was really coordinating.
all the different working groups,
bringing together everyone to figure
out air rights and how do you build
a five acre park over a freeway?
And how do you get the
emissions out of the tunnel?
And it was just a really great process.
So it was fun to kind of
see that first project.
Before that, TREC had given little
grants here and there and had
dispersed funds in a different way.
And so that was one unique project.
fast forward 20 years and what we're
seeing is we're still doing a catalyst
project, but what we've decided is
let's adopt a portion of our community
and let's really laser focus on their
needs and what we can do in that area.
I think that's had a huge impact on
the organization, but also, the city.
a lot of the same people are still around.
A lot of the same players are
still in the market, but I'm
also seeing the next generation.
So you don't just have, Will Muenninger,
but you have Will Muenninger's son
now, who's gone through ALC and is
stepping up for leadership in our
organization, things like that.
So it's been fun to, reconnect with
a lot of familiar faces, but also one
of the things we've done really well
as a city is recruit new industry and
new people i've had the opportunity to
meet a lot of our members that weren't
involved 20 years ago, It's exciting.
Speaker: What do you have on 2025?
Speaker 2: So, as we look forward, I
think, one of the things I asked in the
process when I was, talking with our
search committee is, what is our vision?
we know what we're really good at.
We've taken on some big initiatives
and we've got those underway, but if we
fast forward five, ten years, what does
that look like for the organization?
So we actually are engaging in the
strategic planning process and, I always
warn people, I love strategic planning.
it's A game plan for me, and we better
like it and adopt it because once we
do, I'm on a mission to make sure that
we're executing the plan, but I think
it's a good opportunity for us to engage
with our membership, talk about the
issues that matter to them, talk about
their experience within the organization
and the work that we're doing.
How can we do that better?
How can we serve them better?
How can we engage better in the
work that we're doing and like
Mill City and other communities?
we'll start that process here in Q1, and
I think that will help drive a lot of, our
work in the coming years, but also just
to help us realign how we make decisions,
how we plan, and how we allocate our
resources within the organization.
So that's exciting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Well, I'm looking forward to watching
you and, and watching the Real
Estate Council, grow and thrive.
Yes.
I think it's a really exciting
time for commercial real estate.
Any final thoughts or where people
can find out more about Trek?
Speaker 2: You can find out
more online at recouncil.
com.
also join us for one of our programs.
We have great programming centered on some
of the new projects happening in Dallas.
we're also doing a lot of work,
with our different partners, whether
it's affordable housing and those
organizations working in that space.
we love to engage with the
greater community, not just our
commercial real estate partners.
So there's different ways
to definitely get involved.
And, and then you can also reach me.
I'm fairly easy to find,
but it's jjollyatrecouncil.
com.
Speaker: Thank you.
This has been so enlightening.
so that's it for this
episode of Dallas stir.
We will see you next time.