Lunch with the Clydesdale - Top 5 Tuesday | Hardest Movements to Judge

Everyday we take our lunch hour to take a break from the work day and hang out with our little community talking about what is going on in the world of Enterainment, Sports and specifically CrossFit.  Todoay is Top 5 Tuesday and we will be talking about which movements are the hardest to judge with our speacial Guest Andrew Sten and Jeffrey Birchfield.

What is Clydesdale Media Podcast?

We cover the sport of CrossFit from all angles. We talk with athletes, coaches and celebrities that compete and surround in the sport of CrossFit at all levels. We also bring you Breaking News, Human Interest Stories and report on the Methodology of CrossFit. We also use the methodology to make ourselves the fittest we can be.

what's going on everybody

welcome to lunch with the

Clydesdale today I have my

good buddy Jay Birch here

in the room and it looks

like Andrew Sten is just

may have some video issues

we're coming we're coming

maybe we're coming we will

patiently await his arrival um

But we are here to do top

five Tuesday and top five

Tuesday this week is going

to be the top five hardest

movements to judge at both

an in-person competition

and an online video review.

So once Andrew gets in,

we'll talk about that.

There's a ton of news going

around the space right now.

And Jay,

we're trying to mute you while I

just talk for a second.

Um, and so, uh, there's a ton of news.

We're not going to get into

a lot of that today, uh,

because of this topic today,

but Emma Lawson has joined brute, um,

the WFP qualifiers end tonight.

And, uh, and so, yeah,

Andrew's having a few technical issues.

Uh, we will hope,

hopefully he can get those

rectified soon.

Um,

So we have Emma Lawson going to Brute.

We have the qualifiers done today.

We have Tierwater Palooza

SoCal has announced their

dates for this fall.

Lots of stuff going on.

I also listened to the Rich

Froning podcast,

which actually I have a

really cool question I want

to ask of you guys.

But we'll probably do that

tomorrow when we have a

little bit more time.

So...

Andrew, if you can hear me,

go ahead and log out and

try to log back in one more time,

if you can, and see if that works.

And hopefully we can get you back in here.

So, Jay Burch, I'm going to unmute you.

What I wanted to ask you is,

you have judged in some cases like TFX,

you do a lot of judging

around local comps.

How long have you been

judging and at what competitions?

I've judged for five years.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you.

I've judged for five years.

The majority of what I've

done has been with TFX.

I have judged one of the

Mayhem competitions up in

Amarillo this last summer, which was

which was an interesting

thing because I did it as

part of the AFJ team,

the association of fitness judges,

which was pretty,

that was pretty insightful.

And so I really enjoyed doing that.

And then I've done some team

qualifier competitions with

TFX that weren't the main

main competition.

Do you have,

are you going to be on the

docket for any comps this year?

So I'm not for sure how to work out,

but I am supposed to go to

TFX in Oklahoma City.

Okay, cool.

And so, you know, I'm still,

there's some of the

competitors there that,

the competition is not

necessarily going to take

them to the games.

And so it's just within the invitational.

So that might be who I'm

judging rather than some,

rather than some of the top tier athletes,

if the stipulation of

having somebody with an L one is,

is part of everything that

I've seen so far,

the only re the only need for an L one,

is for those that are doing

it in an affiliate,

that are doing their

semifinals in an affiliate.

Yeah.

So what made you want to become a judge?

So just watching competitions,

doing some online comps myself,

whenever I first started doing CrossFit.

And, you know,

I kind of talked with some people and,

you know, talked about, you know,

how I can be more involved.

And of course,

Rogue was one that I really

wanted to be involved with.

As you know,

it's very difficult to be a part of that.

But I wanted to figure out

how I could be more of a

part of the community.

Having been a former coach

and also been a referee for

like flag football games in college,

intramural sports and stuff like that,

I just thought it might be

a good opportunity.

And so I threw my name in

the hat and got picked to judge at TFX,

Um,

it's a great group to work with and

I've always, um, and I continue to enjoy,

you know,

looking at the methodology from

the sports side through that,

through that lens.

And it's, you know, as you know,

you've done it before.

It's not an easy job, you know, it's,

it can be, it can be tough, but you know,

if it, if it wasn't for the,

for the judges and all the

volunteers and everybody

that comes together,

the sport itself wouldn't even be a sport.

So, yeah,

I'm spending my time in that way.

Yeah, it's, uh,

I'll give a little bit of

my background as Andrew's trying,

still wrestling with the, uh,

technical difficulties.

Um, what,

so I started as a volunteer and I

didn't start as a judge.

I started, uh, in more of like, uh,

special needs kind of thing

where I just ran to

wherever the gopher needed

to go to get the case of

water or to hand out this or to do that.

And then I started working

security at a lot of the

regionals in the teens.

And then I ended up

volunteering at the games

on the equipment crew for

the outdoor field.

Um, and then I wanted to be a judge.

And so, uh,

I talked to Sue Burton who is a

big in the volunteer world

and she kind of coached me

on what I needed to do to

prep myself and to prep my resume,

to be able to judge on the

upper level of stuff,

went through all of that.

Um,

and ended up judging at the

the regionals um and then

from there I got Rogue um a

couple other big events um

probably the most fun

weekend I've ever had is

the coveted year of Rogue

when they did the online

competition and I got to be

Saxon panchex um judge for

that which was really

awesome um so uh that was a lot of fun

Yeah, that would have been a cool time.

Luckily,

I have had the opportunity to work

with lots of upper level games judges,

rogue judges.

And so that's been a great

learning experience for me, too.

Yeah.

So for me,

my perspective on judging movements,

there's two things,

and we're not going to focus on these,

but there are things that

make it harder to judge in

person for sure.

And that is how much space

you as a judge have,

whether there's a broadcast going on.

Do you have to avoid cameras?

Do you have to be out of the way?

Do you have to be out of the

way of spectators?

uh so with all of that that

makes things difficult I

remember at the two

thousand eighteen regionals

there was a handstand

push-up part of the workout

they had twenty people

across ten lanes and the

space under the rig to get

near the wall to see the

handstand push-up was very very difficult

made that movement very hard to judge.

But what we're going to talk

about is just overall,

when you're judging somebody,

what are your top five

movements that are the hardest to judge,

meaning hardest to make the call on?

Right.

So, looks like Andrew went off again.

He's going to try a

different mode of getting in.

And I'm running a little slow.

It's my wife is in the back

also using part of the Internet.

So I apologize.

But so some of mine overlap

and I figure I'll go start

with number five on my list

was double unders.

And in person,

it's not the movement that's

necessarily the issue.

It can be sometimes with

everything going on around

you losing count.

That can be difficult with double unders.

I think the hardest part of

double-unders is

communicating with the athlete.

Because by the time you get

out what you want to say,

they're already like ten

reps past what you just said.

Yeah.

And then they stop.

They get frustrated.

You get frustrated.

There he is.

I'm on my phone.

Computers aren't working very well today.

So we're on Jay Birch's

number five in-person

hardest movements to judge.

All right.

I heard him say double unders.

He did.

You want to finish?

And we'll go to Andrew.

Oh, I was just going to say, yeah,

you know, the athlete gets frustrated,

you get frustrated.

And then I guess it was year before last,

we had to judge triple unders.

Which, you know, ensuring that, you know,

you get three swings and

because you get used to that sound of,

you know.

Who did triple unders?

TFX.

That's it.

So, Andrew, what's your number five?

I went with overhead squats.

Okay.

Mostly because, I mean, it's,

it's a light overhead squats because you,

there's a big controversy a

couple of years ago at

Rogue where they had very,

they had light overhead

squats and when top athletes move quickly,

they do not extend the hips.

They're,

like that and not that and

it's and honestly it's it

and honestly it doesn't

even matter sometimes the

weight people don't stand

up they don't stand their

extend their hips on

overhead squats they think

they are but they don't so

yeah and because they're

trying to balance weight

over their head the natural

the natural inclination is

to lean forward a little

bit so it makes it harder

to extend the hips yeah

So it makes sense,

but I had a discussion with a little,

with an athlete friend of

mine who his deal had to do

a lot with anything where you're,

you're having to go to

depth on something and

whether or not it should be,

whether the standard should

be completely or whether you leave it,

you know,

to where it's more of the

judge's decision on what's

complete and what's not complete.

Every competition will have

their own standards and

what they're looking for.

So that's one thing I wish

they would explain when

they're streaming competitions.

If you see people post online, they go,

they aren't doing this.

They aren't doing this.

Like, well,

we weren't supposed to be

looking for that.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

You know,

that's the thing is people don't

always understand.

what you as the judge within

the competition have been

briefed on what to look for.

Right.

What blows my mind is they

don't let media into athlete briefings.

Yeah.

Especially the broadcast team.

Yeah,

they need someone from broadcast in

there so they know what the

judges are looking for.

Exactly.

And they know the standard

that's supposed to be met

so that they're not

second-guessing a judge for

no reason at all.

Right.

All right, let's go number four.

For me, it was cleans.

And so elbows and hips and knees.

I don't know if you saw the

latest Hiller's video on Tia and Rich and

I did get the opportunity

this summer to judge Rich,

and I can kind of see,

because he was doing cleans

on what I was judging him on,

and it's him and Luke.

And he is so fast,

which that's the other thing,

is judging in person,

the speed with which some

athletes move is just phenomenal.

But you get it in that,

to looking at an athlete and

They could be extended in

their knees and hips,

but because they're on

their way up from already

having their elbows under the bar,

that they then start to

move out from underneath the bar.

And so everything is not together.

And that can be kind of difficult.

Andrew, number four.

My number four was double unders.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes you get so many that,

you know, your mind starts to go.

After about four, after about fifty,

it starts to, you know,

like at Syndicate last year,

I think we had to do a

hundred per athlete.

And sometimes when they would stop,

you know, you're like,

you tell them a number and they're like,

no, it's like, no,

that's the number you're on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're, you're, you're on this number.

Just keep going.

Just.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dropping, you know, they,

they taught us drop the

finger to know what of the

tens you're on.

Just worry about the singles.

But I, like I said in the lesson,

communication with the

athlete is the hardest part

of a double under so fast.

By the time you get it out, they're past.

Yeah.

So that's cool.

Double unders the match.

Let's go to number three.

Legless rope climbs.

And the reason that I say

legless rope climbs is in person,

one of the things that you

have to really watch for is

as they're going up the rope,

they'll start to do that

kip thing with their feet,

and they'll clench with their legs.

And that can be,

if you don't know to watch for it,

It can be an advantage to

the athlete sometimes.

Yeah.

It's not as strict.

Yeah, sometimes that's tough.

It's hard to tell sometimes

if it's intentional,

like they're doing it to,

or if it's just like their

legs happen to come together,

and it's a fine line.

And it's really close at the touch.

When they're reaching for the touch,

a lot of times is when that

clinch will happen.

Yeah.

And which comes first

because that makes a

difference whether rep or no rep.

Yeah.

Did they touch and then

clinch or did they clinch and then touch?

Yep.

Andrew, what do you got for number three?

Number three for in-person,

any four-person synchronized movement.

So the easiest one like is,

is anything with the worm.

Cause then if you're gonna

have a team competition,

you always throw a worm in there,

you know, any,

any kind of mostly

squatting with the worm.

Now it's, you're trying to watch four,

four butts and then four hip creases.

And sometimes they're like, you know,

get the little wave.

Um, but then the game,

sometimes they'll throw in, Oh,

you're going to look at

four person synchronized muscle ups.

That was fun.

And then they had four

person synchronized double unders.

That was, that was just,

that was just like, you're just like, uh,

you're just guessing at that moment.

Yeah.

You're just,

you're watching one person and you can,

you can kind of see the

other three when they get out of,

out of sync.

No, it's just like, Oh, so four,

four person secret movements.

This is like super, super tough.

Heidi Krum comes in,

doesn't matter if it's

intentional or not.

It's still a no rep,

whether you didn't mean to, or you did.

And I think she's talking

about the clinching on.

Well, it's that, that,

that's where it comes in to

play where the standards for the, what,

what the,

what the head judges tell you to look for,

for, you know, if it's, if, if,

if it's a quick clinch

where it's like that,

the lakes happen to come together.

You know,

is it giving them an advantage

right there,

or are they clinching to hold?

You know,

that's where the judge discretion

comes into play.

Yeah,

I think that's where things get messy

at the highest levels, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

It really, it,

you need to have a more

black and white line for that,

for the judge to be in the

right position to succeed.

And it's really fun.

Like when, when doing Legos, when they,

when they start to turn on the rope,

you're on one side and they

turn the other way.

You're like, I can't see them.

Yeah.

So.

All right, so we're going to,

and Heidi says, not really,

no clinch at all.

I think that's the black and

white it needs to be.

A lot of times you do a comp

where people don't realize

that if the judge isn't

given a very understood, strict standard,

black and white,

it puts the judge in a very bad place.

Because if you don't,

one judge interprets it one way,

one judge interprets it another way,

and that's where you get

the big controversy.

Um,

and because Jay Burch looks wise and

fatherly,

we're going to go with number two.

All right.

So number two for me is

handstand pushups because

you're having to watch the athlete,

make sure that they lock the elbows out,

make sure that they're, you know,

stacked through their hips, knees,

and their feet are on the wall.

And I mean,

it's just a whole series of

things to have to,

to make sure that are done properly.

in order for that rep to count.

Yeah.

When, back when I first was judging,

it was the don't allow the

Brooke Wells technique.

And that is the,

the butt kind of being close to the wall.

Um,

and the best description that I ever

was given was if you flip

them right side up and they

were pushing a barbell overhead,

would they be stacked from

front to bottom, top to bottom?

Right.

Yeah.

Um,

And so that helped me a ton

understand that you really

can't extend that butt out

while you're doing a handstand pushup.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just, it's an overhead press.

So this is an overhead squat.

They're just inverted.

Right.

Flip them right side up.

Would they be?

Yeah.

What's your number two, Andrew?

My number two is similar.

It's wall walks.

Um, and mostly it's, it's, it's the,

you know, they tell you, okay, feet can't,

hands can't move until the

feet are off the wall or

off the ground or the feet

have to be on the wall

until the hands touch the tape.

Well, then you're,

you're trying to look this

way and that way at the same time.

you're trying to watch the

hands on one side,

but also trying to watch the,

make sure the feet are over here.

It's like, it's,

it's really difficult to

watch two spots at the same time,

even though you use peripheral vision,

it's, and normally it's a,

it's a bang bang.

You know, it's a, it's,

it's a really difficult standard to,

to try to, it's easier on the way up.

I think on the way down, it's like, just,

just have, just come down,

hands on the tape.

I don't care what touches first.

As long as you finish lying

flat on the ground with

your hands on the tape and

feet on the ground,

that should be the standard.

Yeah,

and especially someone moving like

Colton Mertens does on a handstand.

That video, I watched that on YouTube.

was it on savan on kill

taylor I'm like watch I'm

watching those I'm watching

those wall box I'm like

there's no way I could I'd

be sitting there going

that's like he was like

doing a burpee he was so

fast yep all right we're to

the number one my number

one is wall balls hate them

hate them hate them because

no one goes adept yeah

Because nobody goes to depth

and then it's a matter of

where the ball hits the target.

Is it hitting it on its way

up and back down?

Is it hitting it on its way up?

You know, is it,

and it's the center of the ball.

And, you know,

that's another athlete thing that,

you know, sometimes they don't, you know,

don't hear in the briefing

or whatever that it's, you know,

in most competitions,

it's the ball has to go up

and hit the target on the way up.

not kind of loop and then

come back down and hit it.

Because a lot of times

that's considered a no rep.

Now,

if you watch the CrossFit video of a

wall ball on YouTube,

there's one of those that

it does go up and then come

back down and hits the target.

And so I can understand why

they might think that that's a rep.

But, yeah,

getting to depth is the hardest

for a lot of them.

Again,

I've been briefed at different

competitions where they

allow the loop of the ball.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what makes it difficult, too,

is there are multiple

standards across different competitions.

Right.

But the biggest favor any

competition director can do

is to set up that wall ball

target where everything on

the target is above the

ten-foot or nine-foot line.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the people that say you

have to hit the center of

the target because the way that's set up,

that makes things so,

so much more difficult.

Yeah.

Above the line,

just like hit it above the line.

Yep.

Where if they put it like

the nine foot mark right at

the bottom of the target, then every,

and it hits anything on that face,

then it's good.

Yeah.

Heidi, I never go to depth.

Why would I?

That is why the squad is a

foundational movement.

That's true.

The hardest part for wall

balls for me is that my neck hurts.

Especially if it's a lot.

If you're far enough away,

you don't have to do it as much.

You can step back a little bit.

That's...

Yeah.

It's I've heard some, some head judges,

no team leads say like,

especially if something's being on video,

they don't,

they don't want to see that a

judge going doing, doing,

doing any kind of head bobs

because it just looks,

it looks strange on, on, on, on TV.

Yeah.

Like the row of double under judges going.

Well, you know, that's Josh,

Josh Scott talking about, um,

proximity to athletes and other judges and,

you know,

having like twenty lanes and all

at the same time,

you're all right there

together and they're doing wall balls and,

you know,

they drop the ball on you or whatever.

And then whenever you're

talking about handstand

pushups or wall walks,

there's been so many times

I nearly got kicked or seen

other judges get kicked

because you're just right there together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

uh corey leonard legends my

judge thanked me for

hitting depth on my wall

balls proud moment right

there all right uh so

andrew what's your number

one uh my number one is

chin over bar pull-ups okay

it's like whether it's

kipping no or the dreaded

strict pull-up that a lot

of palooza did and two

years ago for the rain

It's just you're not in a

good position to ever see

the chin higher than the bar.

Like someone's doing butterfly pull ups.

It's like the best spot is

being level with the bar.

So you can see that you're

in front or at an angle.

You might be able to see a shadow.

You just almost have to guess.

It looks like the other chins.

Some people get pretty

obvious with their height,

their head way above the bar.

Some people on their butterfly pull-ups,

they're so close.

Then strict pull-ups,

they should never ever be

in the competition.

Vertically challenged.

It was done at Guadalupe for

safety reasons, but

no judge was judging to the

same standard because some

judges were like, hey,

your feet are moving.

It's an over.

The rest of your body is

going to move a little bit

when you pull yourself up.

Your legs are going to move

as long as you're not

bending your knees and

kicking and getting an

advantage that way.

It was a mess.

I'd rather see chest-to-bar pull-ups.

and a competition,

because those are so easy to judge.

Yeah,

I remember I judged a young lady one time,

and she was doing butterfly pull-ups,

but she would arch so much

that she thought she was getting them,

but her chin was like just, I mean,

just right there at the, you know,

whenever you think about

the plane of the bar coming

out and her crossing that plane.

And she was not happy, but I'm like,

get your head up so I can see your chin.

D. Reed asked this question.

What is the impact of the

elites skirting the

standards on box members?

Depends on if the elites

actually go to a box to work out.

Members actually see them work out.

But I do think box members

that watch the sport,

which is really a low

percentage from what I've

experienced at different boxes,

is that there's a small

percentage that actually

watch the sport and talk about it.

I think the skirting of the

standards comes more from

competition with you and

other people in your gym

more than watching an elite

athlete do it.

Yeah.

And then that comes down to the coaches.

in the gym saying, Hey, don't,

don't do what they're doing.

Right.

You squat the depth because they're,

they're, they're trying to race.

No, they're, they're riding like,

think of it like an auto racer.

They're, they're on that edge of like,

how far can I push this car

to where it turns and,

but not turn enough to where I spin out.

No, that's what,

that's what the elites are doing.

Yeah,

we don't go down I- seventy-one at

two hundred miles an hour

just because Jeff Gordon

did it last weekend.

Right.

All right.

So because we're already

past like halfway mark of this lunch hour,

your online list,

just tell me what's

different and why it's different from the,

we'll go back and forth,

but something that's

different from your list on

online and why it makes a

difference online to in person.

We'll start with Andrew this time.

The only thing I had really

different was anything that

has a distance to move.

like no lunging for distance

or shoulder runs or that

only because the way a camera is set up.

And if you've ever done video reviewing,

we all know camera setups

are people are just,

I don't understand their

thinking sometimes with

their camera setups.

It's, you know,

but it's often the camera's

not in the best position to see.

Did they cross the line?

Did they get all the way?

No, in person,

if someone's lunging for a distance,

the judge is right there

watching that foot.

Okay, is that foot on the line?

Okay, you got one more lunge.

You know,

if someone's doing the workout by

themselves in the gym,

they don't have someone judging them.

There's no one there to tell them that.

And, and then, you know,

if it was a judge there,

they can tell them like one more,

so then they wouldn't get a

penalty on the video review.

So that's one thing I don't like,

or one of the many things I

don't like about video

online competition.

Kind of in line with that,

the further the distance,

the better quality camera

we would hope you would have.

And we know, like the iPhone now,

the lowest resolution is high def.

Yet,

you see videos where people must be

using an LG Slide from the

to video these things

because it is so blurry and

so hard to see.

But you can make movie

quality stuff with an iPhone.

The fact that they're not

makes you believe that

they're trying to hide something.

Right.

And whether or not they use

landscape or whether they use, you know,

the other view that,

that makes a difference too.

Yeah.

And I liked it in the,

the advanced judges course.

They talk about that.

They, they have something in there saying,

Hey, use landscape, you know,

use landscape view.

Don't, don't, don't use the portrait view.

Yeah.

Uh, Jaybert,

do you have anything different

on your list?

And so, um, I did, I had ring muscle ups.

You had mentioned ring muscle ups and, um,

thrusters.

as online as kind of being, you know,

kind of iffy here and there.

I think anything that

depends on the camera angle

makes it hard.

What I loved about when

Rogue did their online

competition is there was a

very set floor layout and

the height at which you set your camera

and they had two cameras per box.

Now,

they were broadcasting with those cameras,

so it had to be set up that way.

But they had a spot for the judge.

They had a spot for the athlete.

Everything was laid out in

that online format with Rogue.

The only thing that was

crazy for me during that time was –

saxon was snatching

something big it would like

in the high two hundreds

and like where the judge

had to be like was scary

you were in front of them

for that snatch with all

that weight and in the box

they gave there wasn't a

lot of room and you had to

be ready to move if they

missed yeah well what's fun

about that also is that he

had he had the earpiece in

And sometimes Rob or Drake

would be on there and be like, Andrew,

move to your left, move to your left.

Literally in the middle.

They'd be talking to a specific judge.

Yep.

Kenneth asks, with CrossFit,

does Ty go to the runner or no?

No.

It's actually opposite.

Depends.

See, sometimes that's in person.

Sometimes in the judges' briefs,

they'll tell us, hey.

At a CrossFit competition?

If CrossFit's running it?

I've never been.

It depends on the movement.

Especially the biggest one

that I've heard is like a rope climb,

especially a Legos rope

climb because it's such an expensive rep.

That if they know if you call a no rep,

they come down.

That's a lot of energy that

that person just waits it on, on a rep.

So if it's, you know, bang, bang, no,

it's like so close.

Like if you think it's a tie,

sometimes I'll say tie goes

at a runner on that one.

No.

So it, it does happen.

You're muted.

You're muted.

That's a big shift because

in the mid to late teens,

like Boz and Chuck were

very much about if any doubt,

it always is a no rep.

Yeah.

I mean,

there are some things that are that way,

but on things that are

super expensive reps where

it's like it's been said

where they'll let the tie

go to the runner.

Yeah.

I think one thing that's

interesting is in all the sports,

everybody complains about judging,

refereeing, umpiring.

Everybody.

It is universal.

People say it's bad in

CrossFit because it's volunteers.

I would say the volunteers

in CrossFit do just as good

of a job as the referees in the NFL.

And there are just as many, if not more,

complaints in the NFL as

there are at a CrossFit competition.

And if you watch any judged

event where things are scored,

there are people livid

about the way things are

scored by judges in ice skating, diving,

and those events.

Are you guys both members of the FJ?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you think that has

done for judging in this space?

It's still pretty new.

So they're still getting things together.

I know that they're

actively... At Wild Palooza,

they had one of their first

in-person seminars online.

which was really cool,

having games-level athletes there.

Con Porter and Alex Kazan

were there to demonstrate

and get feedback to judges

on what athletes are

thinking on that side.

And then they were actively

evaluating judges while

they were judging.

So I think this is the first

year that they're really

kind of doing that.

So it'll take a little time

for that to kind of ramp up,

but competitions are

starting to look to the FJ

to staff their competitions.

So it's getting known in the

space as people who are

highly qualified and

knowledgeable about the

judging and can help raise

the level of judging

at a competition.

So I believe I heard that

mayhem is bringing an AFJ

judges for the classic.

Yep.

That is correct.

Did I see the WFP is doing that as well?

Uh, not sure.

Okay.

Uh, maybe I just dreamt that or something.

Um, what about,

I think the WFP did partner with, uh,

AFJ to have some judges there,

but I don't know if their

entire competition is going

to be supplied by AFJ judges.

Any other ones that you guys know of?

I know I think Metcon Rush.

I think they used them last year,

at least for some of the

lead positions or head

judging and things like that.

I know there's some smaller

competitions that have used

them to help bring in a couple.

Now,

I think that the goal of the AFJ is

not that they staff the entire thing,

but they sprinkle in some

experienced judges to help

mentor and spread the

knowledge to newer judges

that are at these competitions.

It was,

it was affirmed that Guadalupalooza

was going to be the first

time AFJ were going to

judge their judges.

Do you know if, did that happen?

And did you, you judge there, Andrew,

did you get feedback?

Well, I was, I was a head judge.

Okay.

So I was actually on the floor.

I was,

I was briefing athletes in the

athlete area,

but I do know that they were,

the AFJ was there.

actively evaluating judges in real time.

Like while they're on,

they would watch them

during an event and

evaluate the judge and how they did.

And they,

did they give them immediate

feedback or was that post-comp?

I'm not sure.

I think it was more post-comp.

Okay.

But that's,

but I'm not a hundred percent

sure on that.

Anything to help level up

the judging community is a good thing.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, and, and every competition,

like head judges, I've always said,

they've always said, Hey,

if you want no feedback,

I even cross CrossFit

evaluates their judges.

Now they just don't,

they don't make it public and no,

they don't always necessarily always,

they don't have like a

valuation criteria that I don't have,

but I mean, they're,

they're watching the judges.

And so that's why sometimes you'll,

you'll hear judges not

coming back next year, no,

in the following year.

And,

Yeah.

When I did the two thousand

eighteen regionals,

we were judged or we were evaluated.

Top twenty take the floor.

Next twenty are the backup

judges on the sidelines.

And then the other forty

were did not have to come on Sunday.

And that was during the regional days.

So you start the weekend

with eighty judges for Friday,

Saturday and then Sunday.

It's down to the top forty.

With the top twenty only

taking the floor and the

next twenty being the

backup counters and judges

in what would be the media pit.

Just kind of crouched down

having a lane themselves to

judge from there.

And I don't even know if

people know that even happens.

I don't, yeah.

I mean, cause they, they don't,

they don't make it public, you know,

they don't necessarily, they won't,

they won't come to you across it.

In my experience,

they never like after

across the company didn't

come to me and said, Hey, here,

here's your evaluation.

Right.

It's more like, Hey,

like you go to the head judge and say,

Hey, can I get some feedback?

Yeah.

And for them, like sometimes it's tough.

No head judges there.

They're not necessarily

always looking at individual judges.

That's more up to the team leads.

If they have people split into teams,

The head judges kind of rely

on them for the feedback

because they're actively watching like,

no, ten judges.

Like, that's my team.

I'm going to watch these ten

people and pass the feedback up.

We didn't get a written evaluation,

but you knew if you were

top twenty or the next

twenty and you knew if you

were bottom forty.

And throughout the weekend,

you would tell you, hey, try this or hey,

try that.

And of course,

if something was going down on the floor,

you got tapped on the

shoulder by the head judge.

Look for this or you need to

look for that or whatever.

You do get those feedbacks immediately.

But then at the end of the weekend,

it's that that's all you

knew back in those days.

Yeah.

Well, cool guys.

Well,

thank you so much for jumping on with

me today.

Yeah, no problem.

Yeah.

Got to highlight the judges.

You guys work hard out there.

Try to.

Well guys,

our lunch hour is just about up.

So time to get back to work.

You hooligans.

And we'll see everybody next

time on lunch with the Clydesdale.

Bye guys.

See ya.