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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:05:21 - 00:00:32:18
Unknown
Hey, it's Matthew Cudmore and welcome to Story Behind the Stone, a show where we talk with the people and organizations changing the way the world remembers. What's the key to making Pearl Harbor resonate with young people for whom it's ancient history? Today we're joined by Lee Collins, chief of staff at Pacific Historic Parks, the organization helping to preserve and share the history and legacy of some of America's most significant World War Two sites, including Pearl Harbor and other significant places and parks across the Pacific.
00:00:32:18 - 00:00:42:05
Unknown
Join us as we talk with Lee about what he's doing to pass on the lessons of Pearl Harbor and the Pacific in a changing world, and why place based education matters more than ever.
00:00:47:22 - 00:01:05:14
Unknown
Welcome to Story Behind the Stone, where we talk service, sacrifice and stories connecting you to the past and the most interesting people in the field of veteran causes and commemoration. My name is Ryan Mullins, along with Matthew Cudmore, and we're with Memory Anchor, a company committed to using technology for good as we change the way the world remembers.
00:01:05:14 - 00:01:21:23
Unknown
Today we have Lee Collins, the chief of staff at the Pacific Historic Park. Lee, thank you so much for being with us today. Now it's our honor. Thank you. Lee, it's great to see you again. Could you please just share with our audience, who you are and the organization that you that you work with. My name is, Lee Collins.
00:01:21:23 - 00:01:31:23
Unknown
I'm the chief of staff for Pacific Historic Parks, where, corporate offices are located. Here in Honolulu. We were truly A501 seat three. And
00:01:31:23 - 00:01:45:15
Unknown
we are the contracting partner with the National Park Service. At numerous parks in Pacific. And we've done such a great job with them. The state of Hawaii came and asked us if we would partner with them
00:01:45:15 - 00:01:53:06
Unknown
to help protect diamond Head and, that's, one of the larger visitor attractions here on the island of Oahu.
00:01:53:08 - 00:02:23:07
Unknown
And so we do that as well. That's fantastic. So, if you could just walk us through the portfolio of sites that you look after and why you care about those sites. Our main site that we started with as, the Arizona memorial Association in 1979, some retired chiefs, who were hooligans like Promise Shield, TSM, Navy and they were just went down to the pier and they're hoping the Navy, who is at the time taking people out to the memorial on these, white, little white barges.
00:02:23:09 - 00:02:42:16
Unknown
And the Navy reached out to the National Park Service, says, hey, you know, we're really not in the tourism business and how can you help? And so the national parks took over management of the park. And the Navy, said they would continue operating the boats, which they still do today. So you have these young, good looking sailors driving those boats, and they're real sailors.
00:02:42:20 - 00:03:09:17
Unknown
They're, you know, on duty. And it's their biggest honor in their career if you talk to them and ask them. And so we started there and then, in the early 2000, the national parks came to the organization. Obviously, I wasn't with them. And and they said, you know, we need help in Guam and Saipem. We have a couple small war memorials there and we're struggling to maintain, and, and, get the word out about it and market.
00:03:09:19 - 00:03:42:23
Unknown
And so the organization, the board got together and they looked at the whole thing and they realized that very small markets and it was probably going to be a cost center, not something where you could break even. But they said, okay, absolutely. Because it's important to our mission. We preserve those World War Two stories, and so we can educate the world and, and honor those people who made those sacrifices and the men and women who served and, and, so we changed our name from Arizona memorial Association to Pacific Historic Park.
00:03:43:01 - 00:04:07:12
Unknown
And then the National Park studio said, can you help us out with caliper? Not to Hansen's disease colony over in Molokai. And, it's on the edge. There's a small thread with our mission, but it's such an important park, and it's a tragic story of how we isolated these people with leprosy. You know, back in the 1800s.
00:04:07:14 - 00:04:32:17
Unknown
And there's so few of them alive today, and they live in that park. And so we help, where we came to raise funds and just preserve it. And then, we also, recently, in about ten years ago, President Obama designated Honolulu legally a national park. And that was a, World War Two prison of war camp.
00:04:32:17 - 00:04:53:10
Unknown
But it was also a Japanese internment camp. And this is when our country, fearing that the Japanese nationals would rise up against us as we went around and rounded up a Japanese and put them in these internment camps here on the mainland. And it's a black moment in our history. You know, we never want to repeat anything like that again.
00:04:53:11 - 00:05:23:16
Unknown
So we're starting to help rebuild that. And we're celebrating the 10th anniversary this year, putting on a lot of, different events. And then, like I said, Diamondhead. So Pearl Harbor gets about 1.7 and 1.9 million visitors a year, and it's very cool. And, and it gets about a million and, we get to educate all of these wonderful people, the funds that we raise as a nonprofit, there's nobody here gets a commission or, you know, incentives or anything like that.
00:05:23:19 - 00:05:45:17
Unknown
The moneys we raise goes back into the parks and it goes back into in preservation like we're replacing all the signage at Pearl Harbor. In 2010, we raised $50 million and we built the park. You see, today, it's beautiful, but it's starting to, decay a little bit. And we have one theater, the starting to sink. And so that's got to be replaced.
00:05:45:19 - 00:06:03:19
Unknown
And so anyway, the question about, you know, what is special about it's the history. And I've had this great honor in my life. I served for 20 years in the Navy. You know, when I got out, I had I worked in a couple positions where I had the unbelievable special honor to meet these World War Two veterans. And these are real warriors.
00:06:03:19 - 00:06:29:04
Unknown
I served in war, but I was sitting behind a computer console with a cup of coffee and running missions, and these guys were real warriors. And I hear their stories and it touches your heart. And then you want to share their values with the world, their courage, their honor, their commitment, their unbelievable sacrifices. And you want to understand you want people to understand that those values mean something, those values, make us who we are.
00:06:29:04 - 00:06:48:04
Unknown
They separate us, and we. I truly believe our country kind of saved the world in World War two. And from Rosie's and little kids going door to door collecting stuff to our brave men and women who were serving on the front line. So so we're honored to tell that story, and we want to preserve that forever. I think you're pretty humble on on your own service.
00:06:48:06 - 00:07:13:07
Unknown
And, and background. I'm really interested to hear a little from you on how you ended up being involved with that and where where's that passion coming from for you? That's a that's a great question. I grew up on a ranch in Colorado, and, I skate kind of young, and, I wound up joining the Navy when I was 17, and I was, spending some time up in Oregon working at a pizza parlor, and I was having a blast.
00:07:13:07 - 00:07:34:07
Unknown
I was, the guy wounded got kind of got trapped with it, and he was trying, but he was stuck with the lease, and he hired me thinking, I hire this dumb kid, and, I, I go into business. I started marketing it. We loaded it up, we started making it profitable. And I like this business thing, but at the same time, I'm going to high school, and I wanted to go to college.
00:07:34:07 - 00:07:52:20
Unknown
I wanted to get a business degree. I was gonna rule the world, right? And, so I met these professors at Portland University, and I, you know, I figured out the costs, and I couldn't really afford it. And my situation and I and I met these sailors are telling me these great stories about chasing girls overseas and then getting their their GI Bill.
00:07:52:22 - 00:08:10:03
Unknown
And I'm thinking I can do the girl chasing in the GI Bill. So I went down and talked to a recruiter. I talked to my high school counselor, got my G.E.D., they sat me down, I got that I joined the Navy to go to school 117 and the plan was four years, and come back to the Portland University to get my business degree.
00:08:10:06 - 00:08:35:19
Unknown
That's the plan. I get sent to the, carrier midway in Yakutia, Japan. This is the coolest ship in the world. And so we and this is the height of the Cold War, 1979. We do our first cruise and that was the Iranian hostages were taken when we were between Australia and Africa. And my first real deployment, we were on God's ocean off Iran for over 100 days.
00:08:35:19 - 00:08:58:22
Unknown
It was crazy. Then we get back to Japan. I meet the prettiest girl in the entire country. I, her mom, a couple of years after dating her, lets me marry her. I take her out of Japan. The Japanese are so upset with me. They they I think they got a hit on me and a no fly zone for me in Japan is I take their prettiest girl in the Navy.
00:08:58:22 - 00:09:16:07
Unknown
Let me do the coolest things on the planet. I never got out. I don't need the college, the business degree. It was gone. I, worked with the finest people you could ever meet. I had the greatest leaders. They were passionate. They were smart. They were brilliant. They put their foot in my butt when I was messing around, you know?
00:09:16:07 - 00:09:37:18
Unknown
But they they gave me this amazing, these opportunities. And I had this amazing career. I was, operations specialist. I became an anti-submarine air controller out of chasing Soviet subs with P-3 nest, you know, and the helicopters and putting fake for those in the water. We're chasing, Soviet MiGs. I'm an air intercept. I go to air intercept control school.
00:09:37:18 - 00:09:54:19
Unknown
I worked in a missile test center for a couple of years with the smartest people on the planet. Literally scientists that were, like, one side. That's how brilliant these people were, right? You say no to them. They spelled that k, you know, w the Navy spells it. And oh, and so it was amazing thing. I wanted to go to Topgun school.
00:09:54:21 - 00:10:13:16
Unknown
So I kept bugging, I kept writing these letters back to Washington, DC to go to talk in schools and air intercept controller. They're basing the whole movie with talk with Tom. Right. But, behind the scenes, there was controllers that position those fighters in to the best position for them to be effective. And I wanted to be that guy because I thought I was a young stud.
00:10:13:16 - 00:10:36:11
Unknown
Right. And we all so was writing these letters. And, this admiral from Washington kept writing back, and he says, you know, Petty Officer Collins, please, see, some of the citizens school is only available for people on sea duty, and I would buy that right back, with all due respect, sir, blah, blah, blah. And finally, my Admiral two star Admiral Jets comes into the theater.
00:10:36:11 - 00:10:55:23
Unknown
I'm running a mission with tomahawks. He sits down beside me, behind me, and he says, you know, Paras tells me you have a moment. So I give some vectors. I turn around, sir, what can I do for you? He goes, I got a call from neighboring merchant. He'd like you separate these letters requesting Topgun license. Admiral, you know, with all due respect, sir, I love you a lot.
00:10:56:01 - 00:11:21:04
Unknown
I'm never going to stop writing those letters. He goes, oh, I like you. Well, a couple of weeks later, the phone reads, It's a Captain Hodge on the USS warden here in Hawaii, and he's got a bill. He's. And there's only, like, five people from the West Coast a year get to go that school enlisted. Right. And it's it's it's so special.
00:11:21:06 - 00:11:39:05
Unknown
And I asked him, what do I need to do? He says, well, you need to come to and deploy with me to the Gulf. And, I said, done. And I ain't want to come to why it's very expensive here is everybody knows and sailors that actually understand finances try to avoid this place because it's so expensive. But we got here and we fell in love with it.
00:11:39:08 - 00:12:04:16
Unknown
And true to his word, I got my school and we never left. My wife and I love the culture. We love the people. And so we finished our career here. I worked at, after I, I was in the Gulf War, as years of control supervisor in the northern Gulf. And, you know, helped with the Allied forces setting up our tactics and procedures and firearms procedures.
00:12:04:18 - 00:12:29:15
Unknown
And then after that, I was a combat systems instructor at, Pearl Harbor and a float training group. So I'm teaching young sailors how to fight their ships, how to use their weapons systems, how to integrate you multi threat. It's like Nintendo on steroids in the beginning. Right. I would have paid them. And then I, got to work at Saint Patrick and and work in the command center there with the nuclear fan control.
00:12:29:17 - 00:12:47:23
Unknown
And as a senior enlisted. And I ended my career there when John Layman, who was secretary of the Navy at the time, donated the mighty motor, Pearl Harbor, and they asked me if I could help out because I done some dive shops, and I kind of boosted the tourism world. And so that was my first. That's how I got out of the Navy.
00:12:48:01 - 00:13:09:08
Unknown
And it was such an honor, because battleship Missouri was a ship that ended World War two. Right now, this is where my story circles, because when I get there, we're just starting out. We have a ship and it's not open to the public, and we're building tours. We're interviewing people, we're trying to understand the business. We're with a bunch of sailors, admirals and seamen chiefs, and we're monkeys.
00:13:09:08 - 00:13:33:08
Unknown
We have passion. We don't know what the heck we're doing, but we had so many wonderful mentors in the state that came out and helped us. These business professionals, they were brilliant and they would teach us best practices. Now, Lee, don't do that. Don't you? This whatever. And so, we were successful and but what touched my heart there was I served all this time in the military, and I didn't understand naval history until I got there.
00:13:33:11 - 00:13:51:15
Unknown
And I started researching and learning about John Paul Jones and and the whole history of the military in the Navy in our country. It was amazing to me that I served in this Navy for 20 years. I had understanding years. So then I got the interview. These were two guys and, it was amazing. I think Pacific Parks is lucky to have you.
00:13:51:16 - 00:14:13:14
Unknown
You know, I tell young people all the time, if you don't know what's next for you, think about the military. You know, I'm not saying they hate me. I'm not saying they Navy. It could be any service, right? Go to, visit these recruiters. The great thing about when you join the military. So, you know, you can do it for four years.
00:14:13:16 - 00:14:35:06
Unknown
If you have a degree, get it, go for a commission. You know, that's wonderful as well. But you'll get this opportunity to not only served, but to serve with these amazing people from all different walks of life, from every different belief system, ethnic group. And you're all pushed together, but you all have one mission, and you're all going in the same direction with the same leadership.
00:14:35:08 - 00:15:02:02
Unknown
And you're leading, you're following, you're part of a team. You're learning all those, you're having all those experiences. And then what happens is, if you have any gumption at all, you get start getting collateral duties outside of your main job. And then when you finish your four years and let's say you do want to get out, then you are there's very few people can compete with you because you have this experience that that hiring authorities want.
00:15:02:02 - 00:15:23:00
Unknown
They need they need leaders. They need people to know that when you're on time, you're late, when you're five minutes earlier on time, when you're ten minutes early, you don't have enough going on in your life. Right? They need people they know is kind of saying, get the job done no matter what it takes. I always tell people, if you if you don't know what you're doing, think about the military, find that service that appeals to you.
00:15:23:00 - 00:15:50:22
Unknown
And then inside those services, there's hundreds of jobs, right. That that you can do. And, yeah. So I, I'm, I'm actually pro joined the service, in your description and in my experience as well, I wouldn't change my military service for anything because it's, it's taught me so much. And and like you said, that I've never experienced being on a team that's so driven to a single, singular mission that's so agile to to achieve that, a mission depending on what comes.
00:15:51:00 - 00:16:15:10
Unknown
And I'm, I'm curious because, you know, as you moved at an I like this because you said you didn't really understand naval history until you got out. And then this is this is like part two of your service, it sounds like to me is, you know, you served your country, and now you're continuing to serve the country and servicemen and women by honoring and remembering those individuals who gave their lives.
00:16:15:10 - 00:16:34:03
Unknown
And that sounds like what you're doing here at specific, historic parks. When I was at Mighty Mo, about two years into it, my boss, captain Dawn, has walks in and he's the president. And I'm thinking, what's going on? Gone. He goes, hey, I need your help. I go, what can I do for you, sir? And he goes, I need you to take over marketing and sales.
00:16:34:05 - 00:16:48:15
Unknown
And I'm like, get out of my office. And he goes, he goes, no, no, no, we have a company that we were they were doing their marketing. We let them go. There was a conflict. The board wants you to do it because you're passionate and you won't shut up. And they think you'll be wonderful in marketing. And I'm thinking, those are wonderful compliments.
00:16:48:15 - 00:17:06:00
Unknown
Now get out of my office. He goes, he says, well, we might be able to pay you a little bit more. I said, okay, have a seat. Let's talk. So the next thing I know, I'm the director of marketing and sales. I don't know anything. Ryan. Matthew, about marketing, sales. I don't know anything. I go to Borders Bookstore.
00:17:06:00 - 00:17:25:04
Unknown
I spent $2,000 my. And, everything you can imagine and I they the staff hope loaded in the back of my Jeep. I get home two years later. I'm the president of the American Marketing Association. I it was it's like war. If you show me a great marketer, I'll show you a war planner. You show me a great war planner.
00:17:25:04 - 00:17:42:13
Unknown
I'll show you a marketing sales executive. It's the same skill set. So you identify your target, you develop your engagement plan, you pull the trigger. Then you do a bomb damage assessment. We call that ROI analysis, right? And then you adjust your strategy, bring your weapons to bear. But it's all the same course. So I fell in love with it.
00:17:42:13 - 00:18:00:13
Unknown
And I did such a great job. I started getting these job offers from History Channel, Military.com, companies out of Florida. And they're offering me these VP positions. But my wife and I, like I told you, we fell in love with the white. We didn't want to leave. So Norwegian Cruise Lines comes to me and offers me an executive position.
00:18:00:16 - 00:18:24:05
Unknown
It's like three times my nonprofit salary and my wife's like, you take that job. So now I step away. But it broke my heart. I'm not joking. When I left Missouri, the staff made me cry. It was such an emotional experience, leading that. But I went on to this great career with, executive business management, which was number 40 years ago.
00:18:24:05 - 00:18:43:22
Unknown
That was the dream, right. And so, I had a great run and, now Covid hit. So I'm getting ready to retire, and I start getting these emails from friends from different circles, all these friends who send me this job description of this job. It was the director of marketing and sales for Pacific Historic Parts. So I contacted the president.
00:18:43:22 - 00:19:03:19
Unknown
Her name is Eileen Utter Dike, and I met with her. I immediately found out she would be an admiral in the Navy. She. It is so passionate. She takes crap from nobody and she loves her people. And she loves the mission, right? And she's smart. And so I'm like, I can work for. I can help you. She says, I need help.
00:19:03:19 - 00:19:22:13
Unknown
We're coming out of Covid. She had downsized, saved the company through that entire thing. Now we need to rebuild and open these parts back up and build these distribution channels. And I said I'd be honored to help. That was three years ago. So I just asked three years, and I came here. I, we help, we do it.
00:19:22:13 - 00:19:41:04
Unknown
Everything we want to do. She asked me if I would take on the the chief of staff because we grown and we need help managing the departments. And most importantly, she asked me if I would get involved in developing, the funds for the new capital campaign. We're getting ready to launch. So we recently just made that transition.
00:19:41:06 - 00:20:01:08
Unknown
But since being here, this is the other side. Now, when I was at the Mighty Mo, it's important to know that the people at AMA helped us every day. I would call the executive director over here back then and he would say, oh, try this, try that. They opened doors, they made the introductions. I don't think we would have been successful without them.
00:20:01:10 - 00:20:26:09
Unknown
And so I thought one is, I owed these guys something. But I also soloed the country because the country gave me this one, has given me this wonderful life. And so that's that's why I'm here in Hawaii. I don't know why people, viewers are probably never been to why, but in Hawaii, I served in the Navy 20 years and all over the country and commissions and and briefings in Washington and just you name it.
00:20:26:09 - 00:20:55:10
Unknown
Oh, Florida everywhere. I've never seen a community so tight with the military so interconnected, has such wonderful relationships. And the National Park Service is part of all that because of Pearl Harbor. And, for me working here, it's so fun because we get so much help, whether it's government officials or private businesses, military, we do flag folding events and we get hundreds of sailors come out on weekends and they pull flags when they shoot.
00:20:55:10 - 00:21:14:03
Unknown
They could be on the beach or with their family and, so and then the team we have here, they're so passionate and everybody helps. The truck pulls in. We need to unload suppers, no titles. We all go down, form a line, unload the truck, and it's awesome. And, so it's an honor to work here, and, so.
00:21:14:03 - 00:21:31:10
Unknown
Yeah, I feel good. Actually, I'm a lucky guy. Lee. I remember you mentioning the flag folding, and it's it's all branches. Is that correct? It is. So when I got here for years and years, it's been sailors in their dress whites. We go out to the Arizona memorial on December 7th. Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, 4th of July.
00:21:31:12 - 00:21:52:15
Unknown
And they would go early and they would fly flags from these poles that they would put up because it quite literally a couple thousand on December 7th and about 500 on those other national holidays, those kind of military holidays or, you know, patriotic holidays, and then they would come over to Pearl and they would be folded over a period of time.
00:21:52:16 - 00:22:15:13
Unknown
But because I'm a former, senior, enlisted, I reached out to a bunch of different commands Navy, Army, Air Force. I work joint and introduced myself and said, hey, we need help. Can we, solicit you guys to maybe send some soldiers, sailors, airmen over to help us out? They said, yeah. And next thing you know, first time in a long time, we would fly the flags.
00:22:15:13 - 00:22:33:23
Unknown
In the morning, the sailors would fly the flags. They would bring them over to the park. They'd all be folded within a couple of hours. It was crazy. And so we're we give letters of appreciation, of course, because we're so thankful, to all these sailors and soldiers, airmen, chimney guardians. Don't get me in trouble, because now we get to Space Force, and they actually sent people.
00:22:33:23 - 00:22:57:08
Unknown
It's very cool. Yeah. And they don't send people. Those people volunteer, and it's always on a holiday or a weekend, so it's not a taxpayer thing, trust me. Then those flags that we fly, they get sold in our bookstore and online and there's different kinds. And the funds, fund our educational programs. So we have school here every day.
00:22:57:13 - 00:23:19:04
Unknown
We're talking right now. We have we have an education department, and they're giving these wonderful tours to these school groups, k, k, kindergarten through 12th grade. We also do Make-A-Wish family tours, and I get the honor of doing those once in a while. When the education departments overwhelmed, they call me up, say, hey, can you help? And these families, they're approached by Make-A-Wish on the mainland.
00:23:19:06 - 00:23:35:20
Unknown
And it's no, no stretch that when they're asked, where would you like to go on vacation? They say, Hawaii, of course, you know, that's a prime destination. But then they talk to the children and they ask the children, what would you like to do in Hawaii? And when those kids say they want to visit Pearl Harbor in Arizona, that touches my heart.
00:23:35:22 - 00:23:55:21
Unknown
And so we get these families and it's absolutely my honor to greet them. That's all paid for with these flags that are fly flown, enfolded by our military, volunteers and city and volunteers who don't don't get me in trouble. So I give myself trouble and, you know, and then, the last thing is, it creates a lot of fun.
00:23:55:21 - 00:24:15:10
Unknown
So December 7th, we run a whole bunch of events, and throughout the year, we'll bring in Rosie the Riveter. These are the women, young women who went and built tanks and planes and ships and ammunition that saved the world right during World War Two. I will bring them in. And this pays for all of it, right? And it pays for those December 7th events that pays for signage.
00:24:15:12 - 00:24:31:16
Unknown
And, if nothing else, I hear I belong to a lot of veterans organization because I'm an old guy, so I belong the VFW, the Abe and American Legion, and we have all these wonderful service members. But every once in a while, you're some old patriot. You'll go, country's going to hell in a handbasket. These kids don't.
00:24:31:16 - 00:24:48:02
Unknown
They don't know or and I, I listen and I defend them. I say you're wrong. I listen to these young, military people. They come out, I listen to them talk. It drives me a little crazy. Sailors like Marines. I'm like, what's going on in the world? Cats and dogs. Right? And they're actually enjoying talking to each other.
00:24:48:05 - 00:25:09:10
Unknown
They're the best educated military we have ever had in the history of this country. I got young kids who are E-3 and they have bachelor's degrees. It's nuts, right? How well-educated these groups are. And they're courageous and they are committed. And if I do nothing else about their character, they're here on a holiday folding American flags defund these programs.
00:25:09:14 - 00:25:29:06
Unknown
So I tell them, if I can serve with you, I serve anywhere. Now, the only downside this whole generation has, they're not as good looking as my generation, and we're not as good looking as the World War Two guys, because those guys were all movie stars. What kind of comments have you heard from from students or the younger generations about visiting Pearl Harbor for the first time?
00:25:29:06 - 00:25:50:08
Unknown
Anything that stuck out to you? It's actually quite interesting because a lot of the children, we get them do research and they ask, poignant questions, about, you know, how the ship sank and, and they understand that there's men trapped on board and how they were rescued or if they were rescued. We talk about the 100th Battalion.
00:25:50:09 - 00:26:13:21
Unknown
This was the Japanese Americans that served in Europe, the most decorated unit. And we talked about that. And they'll ask questions, about that. It's I'm impressed. I got to tell you, I'm very, very impressed. I know you've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of different veterans, veterans who did the island hopping in the Pacific, and, and all over the world.
00:26:13:23 - 00:26:50:07
Unknown
I'm just curious if there's maybe a poignant story that you'd like to share that really captures the spirit, of, you know, that, that drive, that mission, or just a story that sticks out for you. In April of 1945, the battleship Missouri, sitting off Okinawa, the Navy's off Okinawa when the attacks going on. And the Japanese are watching kamikazes from different stations around the Pacific against this force because the Japanese, war planners know that once Okinawa falls, that gives the Allied forces a position to launch attacks on Japan from.
00:26:50:09 - 00:27:13:07
Unknown
And they they have basically pulled out all the stops. Everything goes by. The young Japanese pilot, gets in his plane and he takes off and he flies out on his mission. He fly, finds the Allied forces off Okinawa, and he starts his attack. And the after look out on the battleship Missouri is season. He's got his binoculars.
00:27:13:07 - 00:27:36:13
Unknown
He sees him and he gets on that one in the south part, he goes bridge after. Look up kamikaze inbound starboard quarter. The bridge. Officers run over to the side. They grab their binoculars and they're looking. And what they're looking for is if they're ships between us and the kamikaze, his kamikazes would come in low and they would fly between the ships so that we would shoot each other trying to shoot the kamikaze.
00:27:36:15 - 00:27:57:18
Unknown
Yeah. And we always think about them diving down, but they had different strategies. And this, this pilot was coming in low. So the options on the deck, they run over, they look it's clear. And they go batteries release all batteries release kamikaze starboard quarter. So everybody starts shooting and Missouri's got Bofors. That's 40mm. It's got five inch guns.
00:27:57:18 - 00:28:18:00
Unknown
It's got 20mm. And they're lighting the sky up. The water is exploding, is exploding. And this pilot keeps coming in coming in and coming in. And at the last moment his wing is touching the ship. And at that moment, a young cook who had gotten up early that morning asked his team, can I go up and take pictures?
00:28:18:04 - 00:28:36:23
Unknown
Because they've been doing this for a while and these attacks have been going on, and the chief getting permission in between meals to go take pictures. He's up on the old five level back aft, and he takes that picture. That pictures there today is around the world. You can look it up and there's a young Japanese pilot.
00:28:37:03 - 00:29:00:03
Unknown
He's got a 500 pound bomb under him, and there's four Americans that are 23ft from him. And when the bomb goes off their dead and those Americans, they didn't run, they didn't dive for cover. They didn't flinch. They're still trying to kill him. There's two of them are shooting, and two of them are loading. It's the most courageous thing I've ever seen in my life.
00:29:00:05 - 00:29:16:20
Unknown
The plane slaps him that the ship is cut in half, the pilots cut in half, flips and over, and the fire starts and the firefighters put the fire out. The bomb doesn't explode. Well, that night the captain, Captain Callahan,
00:29:16:20 - 00:29:20:01
Unknown
calls the XO and the chaplain up to his cabin.
00:29:20:01 - 00:29:37:19
Unknown
He says, hey, I'd like to have a burial at sea tomorrow with, honors. Let's go ahead and get that plan before 8:00, because the Japanese tend to start attacking around 909. Honor and the excellence, the captain. A certain nobody was hurt. We had some damage to one of our flash suppressors and one of the 40s. It's been repaired.
00:29:38:00 - 00:29:57:08
Unknown
There's a little fire, but no, no significant damage. And the captain looks at me, says, well, for that Japanese pilot and it seems like, sir, the even the chaplains take him back a little bit. And he says, for the Japanese pilot, that's. So you got a problem? Oh, no, sir. Poof! And off they go. We're destroying the ship.
00:29:57:10 - 00:30:16:08
Unknown
They're going to bury that Japanese pilot with military honors. I don't think they said Japanese. They said something else. And they said they're going to bury that Japanese with military honors. The laundry guys told their chief we're not washing clothes anymore. And I'm write my let my mom and my mother a letter back and tell her. The chief goes up and tells the captain.
00:30:16:08 - 00:30:35:13
Unknown
Captain goes to the bridge is on the 1MC says, all the attention on board Missouri is the captain speaking, and you should go wake everybody up now. It's like 9:00 at night. So they go through and they think the war's over. They think maybe the Japanese surrendered. Something big is happening. Your captain doesn't give talks at 9:00 at night, 2100.
00:30:35:15 - 00:31:01:20
Unknown
So everybody gets up and captain comes on. He says, I've given some orders and they've been questioned. And I'm not in the habit of explaining myself, but I'm going to make the exception just this once, he said. The day young man got in his plane and he found the enemy, and he made a conscious decision to give his life pay, the ultimate sacrifice, fighting for his country, protecting his country.
00:31:01:22 - 00:31:31:09
Unknown
And the surgeon general tells me that that kid, that pilot, was about 19 years old, about the same age as most of you listening to me. And tomorrow we're going to honor that pilot with full military honors. And we're honoring their courage. We're honoring their commitment. We're honoring their commitment to make that sacrifice for their country. These are the values of the United States of America, the greatest nation in the world.
00:31:31:11 - 00:31:51:19
Unknown
You know, we saw recognizing and honoring these values. We start losing wars, captain, our so it touched three sailors. They were moved and they went up to the signal bridge. And they asked the chief up there, chief, do you have a Japanese flag? The kid can be there. The pilot can be buried tomorrow. The chief said, get off my bridge.
00:31:51:21 - 00:32:12:12
Unknown
So these three kids go down to the sale water. And this was where they had canvas and and sewing machines, and they broke in. But they were country boys. They didn't even know how to operate the sewing machine. So they stayed up that night. They cut out a piece of white canvas and some red fort and sew together by hand something that looks like a Japanese flag.
00:32:12:12 - 00:32:37:12
Unknown
And the next morning the orders were getting carried out. And there's another picture of that flag over the body of the pilot was being put aside. And then the Marines are doing the 21 gun salute. So you jump forward 50 years and the USS Greeneville, that submarine here in a white and they were out on a training mission off Pearl Harbor.
00:32:37:17 - 00:32:58:21
Unknown
They had a tragic accident. They came up, circled, and there was a small boat. They didn't see it. They went back down. They didn't. Emergency blast. And they wound up hitting this training vessel. It's a Japanese training vessel. It killed 11, students and instructors died in there. All Japanese. The Japanese sent over the president of the LDP.
00:32:58:21 - 00:33:20:01
Unknown
They have a different government system than we do, but it'd be like the vice president of the country. I guess, in the scope of things. So the vice president of the LDP comes, our president comes over with two cinder level secretaries with them, and I greet them and I hand them a Missouri hat. Answer. You can't buy them.
00:33:20:01 - 00:33:46:19
Unknown
So they're only presented to dignitaries, and everybody's watching because they're there to oversee the level of cooperation between the United States Navy and the Japanese Navy in recovering these bodies. So they can't be seen as having preferential treatment. They been to the Arizona that morning, paid respects. Now there's the mighty Mo. We take them up on the ship, we tell them the story, take the picture in front of the main god, batteries up forward.
00:33:46:21 - 00:34:09:05
Unknown
We take them up to the surrender that we tell them the story. They're very respectful. They're holding that. And then, besides our tour supervisor, manager, we Japanese, we take them back. And I taught him how to give these tours. We take him back and he starts telling the kamikaze story. And I'm watching because we we role play a little bit, so I can tell him he's he's doing the after look out, he's doing the bridge.
00:34:09:11 - 00:34:26:07
Unknown
He's the size exploding. And these guys are moving in closer to the slide. You they're getting closer and closer. Right. And then while we've been moving through the ship, all the Japanese visitors had started congregating around us because they know who these guys are. It's like the vice president, right? And they're they want to hear the story, too.
00:34:26:10 - 00:34:49:15
Unknown
So everybody's gather around the side, you tell the story. Then he starts talking a song. The story is the part about the captain ordering the XO and the chaplain to do this broke. And these guys are facial. It's just like they cannot believe what they're hearing. Then they start talking about the kids sewing the five together. If he's doing this, they they start openly crying.
00:34:49:17 - 00:35:12:15
Unknown
So then he talked about the gun salute. And then besides, you shows them the pictures. That's it. They took that hat that they've been carrying. Snapped it open, put it on. They're probably still wearing that hat today. So a couple years later we had this research group made up from, Arizona memorial. A Japanese that served, volunteered over here, but they also volunteered to Missouri.
00:35:12:19 - 00:35:38:18
Unknown
Some of them were, from the, carrier or. I'm sorry, the battleship, mascot. Masashi. And we had Sankaran. They had Smith swam away and survived. Now they're part of our volunteer research team, plus with our 100th Battalion guys. So this Japanese group, these elderly guys, and they're all in their 70s and 80s, they go back to Japan.
00:35:38:18 - 00:35:55:09
Unknown
They said, listen, we're going to go to Japan. The only thing we can do. I said, try to get a copy of their surrender document. And they said, oddly, I don't think so. I said, no, please try. So they go back, they call me back and they said niece, I'm sorry. They said Dame I said means no.
00:35:55:11 - 00:36:15:08
Unknown
I said well you know, go see the fight. The president of the LDP's office and ask them if they can give us help. So they go over there, they take a taxi, they go over there and they came back with that document with copies of the document. So today, when you're on board the Missouri, you can see those two documents and one of them is messed up.
00:36:15:08 - 00:36:38:12
Unknown
It was signed in the wrong place by Colonel Cosgrove, the representative from Canada. There's a rumor he may have had, some tea that morning, and, so that document was messed up. At the end of the ceremony, general MacArthur reached down and he looked at the documents, closed them up, and he pushed the one that was damaged over to the Japanese delegation, Foreign Minister Sheikh Ahmed.
00:36:38:12 - 00:37:11:08
Unknown
Sir, he said, this is your copy. And the Japanese never allowed that document to be photographed, pictured, viewed by anyone since that day until they gave us a copy. The reason they gave us a copy is because they heard. Now we're telling the story and how we honor these sacrifices and how we've mended our relationships. Right. I tell young people this story today because it tells you, you come to those points in your life where you got to make a decision that was not the smartest political decision Captain Callahan made.
00:37:11:10 - 00:37:34:07
Unknown
And he never made that move, by the way. But it was an important decision. It was the right decision. It wasn't popular, but it was the right decision, and it had impact on international relationships 50 years later. Right. And so that's a testament of doing the right thing, even when it's not popular. I absolutely love that story and the message behind it.
00:37:34:09 - 00:38:10:01
Unknown
It's very poignant. And it's it's poignant for me. And the challenges I deal with, throughout the day and work and life. So I really appreciate you sharing that. What I'm hoping is people can help us either become members, become donors. We have we truly need to raise, somewhere between 20 and $40 million over the next few years, we're going to launch a national campaign, across the country, similar to what they did with the World War Two memorial with Tom Hanks back in the day at the, soldier people over and over that that was wonderfully successful.
00:38:10:04 - 00:38:31:00
Unknown
We know it's, financially a lot of people are struggling right now. But any help would be greatly appreciated. We're going to do state campaigns in Oklahoma, the state of Arizona, at the state of Utah. We met with the governor's office in the state of Utah here a couple months ago and the church there. And so we're very excited to work with them because we have all three memorials here in Pearl Harbor.
00:38:31:02 - 00:38:50:00
Unknown
And we're going to protect those, refurbish them, and we want to build an endowment so that they are taken care of forever. And I personally have a personal goal. I want to build an endowment that funds our educational program in perpetuity. We're going to have struggles in our future. You know, I don't have a crystal ball, but every organization goes through struggles.
00:38:50:06 - 00:39:09:10
Unknown
I want to make sure that this organization is protected forever. And I want to reach out to Americans and ask them, please join us in doing this and preserving this wonderful history so that all future generations have it, and are exposed to it, because I know it makes our country better. One of the most important things is, you know, leadership matters.
00:39:09:10 - 00:39:33:02
Unknown
Passion matters. And you can certainly hear this in Lee as he talks. And so I encourage you to, you know, reach out, look at, look into donating, doing what you can, even volunteering. Like Lee said, I know that new interpretive center that's going to replace the theater is going to be an amazing thing when it gets installed. It also for people that visited Pearl Harbor before, you used to have to stand in long lines.
00:39:33:04 - 00:39:56:05
Unknown
The new superintendent there and the National Park Service have really embraced technology today. You don't stand in line. You show up, you show your pass, you're in the theater, you're on the boat, you're gone. And if you show up and let's say you don't have a past used to be the same way for a couple of hours today, you come in with your mobile phone, you go explore, you'll get a text message inviting you to the theater.
00:39:56:07 - 00:40:19:13
Unknown
So they give you a little break. You're on the boat. You're gone. It's totally changed the experience. And that's one of the things that our donors and our volunteers and the national parks embracing technology, has made possible so we just can't thank people in that. We can't thank our supporters, our volunteers enough. And Matthew Ryan, we can't thank you enough for how can you just get this word out there, what you guys are doing very port for our country.
00:40:19:14 - 00:40:20:23
Unknown
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00:40:26:11 - 00:40:45:21
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story. Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Rise Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath. We air every Thursday at 10 a.m. eastern on the Red Cross Radio Network. Thank you for tuning in.