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Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.
Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.
Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.
To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.
Dan Ryan: Today's guest has over 30 years of hospitality experience in international operations. Capital Markets, and Strategic Development. He has a focus on sustainability as a part of the guest experience. He's worked on projects all over the globe in regions like Asia, the Middle East, and North America. He's the CEO and owner of Olsen Kundig, a global architecture and design practice, Himanshu Parwani, or as his new friends, and all friends, and all people call him, HP.
Welcome HP.
Hemanshu Parwani: Hey, Diane. It's great to be on your show. Looking forward to an interesting conversation today.
Dan Ryan: Well, I know it's going to be an interesting conversation because We did speak and we did meet. Um, and I'm really fascinated by some of your hobbies, which I want to get into, but I don't want to get there yet. Um, but I just want to let all the, all the listeners know, um, I met HP. I was invited to a dinner at Alice, um, that I wasn't expecting to.
I just had an open, I just kind of went with the flow. I was like, yeah, sure, I'll be there. And we were at this wonderfully amazing dinner, um, that Aggie invited us to. I don't know. I just met so many great new people. So the moral of the story is when someone asks you to dinner, just say yes, because you never know who you're going to meet.
And I'm just really happy to have gotten to know and meet and gotten to know you better HP. So thank you for being here.
Hemanshu Parwani: Pleasure. My pleasure. And I mean, that's the best part of, uh, dinners or hospitality or Alice is meeting new people. And that's what excites me, uh, every day.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I, I really, and I actually, I want to start there too, because you already said the H word. So when you think of hospitality and your career spanning all the different facets of it and having seen from the finance to the design, to the operations, like When you, when it all boils down to you, what does hospitality mean to you?
Having
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, hospitality, I would take a step back a little bit. I mean, I, I grew up, uh, born in India, grew up there and And the cultures in Asia, I would say, where hospitality is, next to godliness. I mean, like Wlcoming someone into a space and how you make them feel is, uh, is, is a, is a religion, I mean, in Asia.
And, and that's something that has stayed with me all along. And when I think about hospitality is how you make someone feel. in the space and, how you create memories with them?
Dan Ryan: come from all facets of hospitality, whether you're grinding out performance to see if this deal is going to work or not, or running a hotel or designing and building a hotel, when you think of that idea of godliness, because I really think it's I mean, I love that because you're really putting it at the highest of levels, right? Is there an element of that godliness ties through all the different facets that you've experienced?
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, yes. And I would say it, I mean, the one core key facet in, in, in all of that is how you make a guest or anyone using that space feel. I think if that theme can stay true throughout all aspects, that's where Success is with regards to hospitality. I mean, even oftentimes, uh, I would say when you're looking at Proforma, it's easy to lose sight of some of those things when somebody's buried into the deal as to how the deal is getting put together.
Sometimes we say we don't even spend enough time at that point thinking the space that the deal we are putting together for the space and how it responds to the, to its surroundings and how the guest will interact And how each component adds to it, uh, and it builds on that. So, uh, that theme has to stay right from the time someone says, I'm going to acquire this piece of land to have a hospitality product out there.
And when you walk that site, uh, that's where it's, it, the genesis happens there. And, I mean, reflecting a little bit, I mean, I'm on the architecture and design team. Uh, practice, um, it starts there. Like you walk the space and say, well, we'll create the, the, the building and environments. But how will the guests come here, walk, and see the horizon, see the vistas, see the surroundings, if it's an urban thing, how will they feel?
I mean, I think that's the essence of, uh, of everything, all different facets, capital, operator selection, site selection, you name it. And that's, that's a core thing, at least for me personally. What really does it mean for the guest?
Dan Ryan: Now, when you're looking at a new project, so you have like the clean slate, right? I don't know. For many, that's the most exciting part of a project. For others, it's figuring all the things out as they're midstream. And then others, it's when it's open and then all points in between. But when you're, when you have a clean slate and you're looking. At creating something of a hospitality project. Are you, how do you want the guests to feel when they're walking into that space? When, like, how, how do you take the guest's perspective as you're looking at the, the blank piece of white paper?
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, I would say, I mean, we humans, I mean, as we experience space, I mean, I think it's in our DNA, either, uh, uh, either that space reminds you of something else, a memory that you had, or you're trying to build a memory from that space that you want to carry it further. And, uh, that's the way, I mean, I have usually looked at it.
I mean, my partners, uh, that are focused on some of the projects and on And on the design side, that's the way they look at it. Uh, which is the memories that one, one experiences in that space, something that they may, they may have experienced in another, in the past life or whatnot, and, or new memories that they create.
Uh, uh, we humans always kind of congregate around. Uh, other humans, emotions, experiences. So it's that the memories, the emotions is, is the, is the core thread, uh, that, that I focus on, that I think about, uh, as well as the whole practice with regards to the space, blank, blank canvas. What do we want? What memories would somebody take from here?
Dan Ryan: Um, when did you find that you had this passion for hospitality?
Hemanshu Parwani: Oh, wow. Um, I would say. Growing up, I mean, I was always fascinated by, as to, you would go to a place and you engage with, uh, let's say the people that are working in that space. That, I mean, as, as a youngster, I recall going with my parents to a place and, uh, I'll share another anecdote later on in the conversation.
But I, I, went to a place with my parents, uh, uh, in, in India, in northern part of India. And, uh, two experiences, one where I walked into a space and, uh, the staff spoke to me as if I belonged in that space. I didn't need a, a adult supervision, but more so as Hey, you mean something for us. You are a guest and, and, I want to address you that way, as in respect to you and, uh, and the pride they had in sharing their space with, with me as an individual.
And so that's where, I mean, I, I could see that and I could, I could say, wow. That's, that's the pride of sharing the space and, or making someone feel as if they are welcome, they belong there. That's where that passion started. And, uh, early part of my career was, um, uh, focused in India with regards to, uh, hospi, uh, hospitality operations and, or, uh, early on feasibility and conceptualizing projects.
And that's the, that's where the whole, um, Want and a passion became more of a reality for me.
Dan Ryan: And then, so you learned all of this and you, you got, you kind of earned your stripe, so to speak, in India. And then when did you come to the U. S.? To take these skills and try out all of these new endeavors that you have. I often, well,
Hemanshu Parwani: over 30 years I've been in the U. S. now. And, uh, oftentimes when we talk hospitality, uh, we, we often focus on brands, resorts, hotels, etc. But for me, hospitality is a much, much, much broader term. Hospitality presents itself in even public infrastructure, transportation projects. Uh, I mean, early part of my career, I was working, um, uh, after my first stint with hospitality, I was on, um, major transportation projects in terms of metro systems and subways.
And thinking about, uh, the stations, uh, for the train systems, even there, their hospitality presents itself in multiple places, even, um, the carriages that are used for metro systems, there's an element of hospitality even there. Which often folks don't realize. I mean, we get busy in our space. We take the subway and off from one place to the other.
There's hospitality there too. How you engage in that space, how you're present, how others around you are present. So hospitality for me is a much broader term beyond just brands and operators and F& B spaces.
Dan Ryan: I'm always amazed at how people don't realize I I'm often amazed that I don't realize how people don't understand that hospitality touches everything, right? Because it is that base core human interaction and it's, I think what makes us different in the sense that we're welcoming people into our space, our home, just outside into our, the environment that we're around.
And it weaves through everything that we do. So I'm, I just think that, and I think that's kind of why the, um, the popularity of this podcast has grown so much, because hospitality does touch everything and we can all learn from it because it's really what makes us human. I'm also intrigued. By you, HP, because as much as you're always thinking about how the guest should feel, right, and putting the guest first at that level of godliness, um, you put yourself in very uncomfortable positions with your mountaineering.
And I, for those of you who don't know, uh, HP has done all seven summits and you're working on more. So he's climbed the tallest, um, peaks, mountain peaks in each of the continents and more. So you're very passionate about that. I'm curious if that, if putting yourself through those extreme Conditions and experiences informs your idea or makes you appreciate hospitality more.
Hemanshu Parwani: It does. In fact, I wanted to share a couple of anecdotes or experiences. Talking of hospitality, we were working with a hospital system, healthcare, and hospitality presents, and they were really keen to see what the What does it mean for the patient? For the patient care? And, uh, we did, uh, a concept and a study with them in terms of creating a space that, let's say the, the hospitality designers created, but with the intent for the patient care.
And, and they did some really interesting research and studies that patients that were kept in those spaces, which are more thoughtfully designed. with thoughts around how lighting comes in, what are the vistas or the views that a patient can see. They felt, their research showed that the, the patients recover faster in those spaces when there is a thought put into even, uh, a sterile space.
I mean, hospitals, as we know, or healthcare, I mean, it becomes very sterile. And, uh, but if done thoughtfully, even the patients recover much quicker. So, so that was the one, uh, uh, Experience I wanted to share. The other one, when you talked about climbing and extreme, uh, again, hospitality presents itself in, in all aspects, all spaces.
I've climbed and I think we were talking earlier. I had shared. I mean, having had meals and all over the world from a hole in a wall to some Michelin stars. I mean, to date, my best meal ever, I mean, I say this every time, has been a meal that I had with the Gauchos while climbing in Argentina. On a mountainside, I mean, the freshest possible meat or whatever, basic, I mean, to me, that was something that has stayed with me, I mean, for over a decade plus, where I say, that's the best meal I had, because they made me feel One of them, they were sharing what they had and, uh, I didn't have to be someone to be in that space.
I had to be me. Uh, I was climbing and, uh, that's one of my best experiences of hospitality, I would say.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting. I think back, like if someone said, uh, like, what's the best beer you've ever had or something like that? It's usually, it's after some incredibly strenuous exercise or hike up a mountain. I'm not mountaineering, but like a very long hike. And then you get back to wherever you're going in that beer.
I don't care what it is. It's just like the LUT. It's the, It's life right there. You're around with the people that you just struggled with.
And it could be a Miller High life for all I care. It doesn't matter, but it's what's at the end of that journey as you're kind of like revitalizing yourself and sharing the stories of the things that you saw.
Um, along your way.
Hemanshu Parwani: It's interesting that you mentioned this beer thing, and this has actually happened to me. Uh, I was climbing, uh, Denali in Alaska, and, um, it's, I mean, to date, I say that's my most toughest climb that I've ever taken. And it was, it was three weeks of just plain suffering. I mean, you walk in assuming there will be suffering, and then you amplify it times five, ten, whatever.
At the end of it, uh, I mean, unbeknownst to me, um, Um, the, the, the guide, um, and the outfitter that I was climbing with, they had buried, uh, a six pack, uh, in the glacier, uh, where we were dropped off and we do this climb three weeks later. Uh, we come back to our pickup place on the glacier. We are all super tired.
Uh, haven't showered for three weeks. We are probably, we have lost a ton of weight. Uh, and we come there and he just digs it out of the ground, literally from the ice, and he's like, there's beer. And again, that's the beer I remember the most.
I don't remember what it was, but the fact that after suffering, pain, tired, exhaustion, you come back and there's this beer.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting. You can think of that's such a reward for you after suffering for three weeks. And I'm curious whether the guide, whoever buried it in the glacier, was that a motivation for them to get like, was that their North star to get all the way up and then come back? They knew they were going to, you had you, it was a surprise for you.
But I wonder if that was like, okay, this is, this is the end. This is the end result. This is the ultimate goal.
Hemanshu Parwani: well, I mean, this was in their way of, uh, a little bit of a celebration, uh, and camaraderie. I mean, I think, uh, it's all about that. And, uh, I mean, I've said this in the past as well, that, uh, when I'm climbing, uh, and oftentimes I don't know the other climbers before I show up for the climb and we all get united by a common purpose.
and, and build instant trust the moment we show up literally because we are clipped on the rope, uh, and there is a bond or a trust that's there that, hey, if I were to fall, you who was next on the rope with me will be saving me and vice versa. And, but it's that common purpose. And, uh, given we're talking about hospitality and we've heard, uh, the luminaires of hospitality, I know Bill Marriott has said that too.
It's the purpose. I mean, and, and keeping it simple, uh, has always been, uh, something that has resonated with me. I mean, and I'm, I've always been fascinated when I've heard in the past Bill say, or in his, uh, writings, We are innkeepers, I mean, and or, I mean, irrespective, it's a multi billion corporation, et cetera, but the ethos of being innkeepers to take care of people and, and as innkeepers, it was not just the guests, but also the people that worked at the inns and taking care of both of that was important to him.
And that's the ethos of hospitality. It's not just the guests, the people that are taking care of the guests, you take care of them as well, because Uh, that's where that common purpose is so important, uh, as we engage hospitality in its broadest sense.
Dan Ryan: I'm so glad you brought up, uh, Mr. Marriott. I actually. Sat behind him at the ribbon cutting of Howard university's hospitality school. I don't know, two, a year and a half or two years ago. I don't remember exactly. Um, you know, there was a big ribbon cutting. He was literally like right in front of me, but I didn't say anything or introduce myself.
I just sat there. Um, because it was such a, really an incredible experience. Just be in that room. Three, two, three weeks ago, I was at a, I was at a meetup for host up in San Francisco for the GM meeting. And Mr. Marriott was there and I walked in, I, uh, after the day of, you know, speakers, we went up and there was this kind of reception at the top of the Hyatt in San Francisco.
And I shook the hands of, there were three people greeting us. Um, and then I was like, I walked out, I was like, wait, that was Mr. Marriott. And then I went back and I was like, I had the pleasure of sitting behind you. I've never actually gotten to meet you. Um. But I just want to say I, you just made my day, my week, my month, my year.
Uh, it's so incredible to meet you. Um, and what I appreciated the most, and he, he was just very gracious and everything you would expect him to be. Um, but what I loved about him was the next day he got up as the chairman of host and gave a keynote and the stories he would tell, um, about going to Harvard business school Then going to work at, um, at his hot shops, the family business before Marriott.
And he would call his hotshot buddies at Harvard, graduated Harvard business school. They were trading stocks, making a lot of money. And they're like, Hey, what did you do? He's like, you know, I, I got to cook 200 meals today because the, the, the line cook didn't show up or something like that.
And I think the way he said it, it wasn't like I had to, it was like, I got to, I get to.
It was like an honor that he got to do this and also learn a business from the ground up. Um, unlike all the other MBAs that he had worked with. So I
just wanted to share that with you and everyone because it was just so wonderful to be able to experience that
Hemanshu Parwani: Oh, absolutely. I mean, uh, and there are so many luminaires that we could talk about for R's in hospitality. I mean, pathbreaking. And each one, I think, uh, kind of redefining, re envisioning, uh, hospitality, whether it's Bill Marriott, Ian Schrager, Adrian Zecca. I mean, uh, I mean, each one has, uh, defined and redefined hospitality.
Dan Ryan: and scaled it
to unfathomable heights. It's a, it's unbelievable how, how they were able to, to do that. I want to go back to the Denali experience. So the hardest experience, uh, or most challenging experience in your mountaineering life. Um, I'm curious that when you're, when you're up, up over 18, 000 feet to 20 plus and you, you have to camp up, do you sleep that high?
Correct? How in that extreme situation, how do you find comfort and sleep?
Hemanshu Parwani: Uh,
Dan Ryan: Or is it just sheer exhaustion? Is there anything in that, in that intense, Sleep, lack of oxygen, really, really high up that gets you through.
Hemanshu Parwani: well, uh, there are a couple of things. Yes. There is an element of sheer exhaustion, but at the same time, given that there is much lesser oxygen at that altitude or even higher, uh, sleep becomes a challenge. Um, and, uh, uh, your heart rate goes through erratic patterns, rhythms, et cetera. And, uh, uh, You find comfort.
I think sleep happens. It'll happen. I mean, uh, it's, it's a physiological phenomenon, I would say, with regards to sleep at that altitude. Exhaustion would kick in, you will sleep for some time, then you'll stay awake, and then you just go through the cycle. And oftentimes the climbers would Joke like I got two solid hours of sleep and that's a victory because you could sleep for two hours.
Uh, and then you, uh, you you go through that process. What gets you through is, um, you are in a such an intense state of focus, uh, and it's a little a little bit of a meditative state, uh, I would say, um, what gives you more comfort and peace is, Hey, I'm doing the best that I could possibly do. I've trained for this.
I'm showing up with intent. Uh, and I'm staying focused and I'll do, uh, kind of one step in front of the other. And I'll go through the process of climbing and the one feeling that I, Always had, I mean, climbing mountain and I say all mountains are difficult. There is no easy mountain. I mean, uh, it's a misnomer to say it's an easy mountain just because one could say, oh, I, I could hike up and I say, people have died at 5, 000 feet, so there is no easy mountain mountain.
itself is you have to go through a physical and a mental, uh, exertion. And, um, so you get comfort by the fact that you've done the best that you could do. And I am here to enjoy the journey. The folks that fixate more on the summit, et cetera, and what's next, what's next. That's where, I mean, it creates more anxiousness, I would say, uh, for me.
for anyone. And, um, well, we have to remember that we are dealing with an unknown. I mean, sure, many people have climbed that, but every day, every hour, it's different circumstances.
Dan Ryan: I appreciate so much the words that you just said about showing up with intent. So you're training, you're showing up with intent. It's actually something. I struggle with, I show up with intent in many, many things that I do. I would say 75 plus percent of the things I do, but oftentimes I'm just going through the motions of just living life.
And, but I find when I take that pause. And do things with intention. It's much, it's a much more impactful experience for myself and those that I'm around. Um, as an entrepreneur and leader within our industry, how do you take that idea of showing up with intent? That you've learned from mountaineering and apply it to other aspects of business, life, family, personal.
How do you take intent to heart?
Hemanshu Parwani: Oh, I mean, the best way I have. Uh, kind of manage that, handle that, is, uh, it's being about, about being true to yourself. Uh, and then, like you just said, uh, sometimes you can go through emotions. If you dig down deeper, are you being true to yourself? And that's where the intent comes in for me personally, which is if I'm going to do anything, Be it as simple as walking on a treadmill at home. If I'm not doing that with intent, then why am I doing it? And, and that's a question that I ask myself every day in everything that I do, and I ask my kids as well. And, and also, uh, I may be spending not as much time, uh, With my kids or with my family, given so many things, I want to make them count. I mean, I want to make every moment count.
Uh, and success and failures, uh, for me are not defined by, oh, if I had to reach a summit, that's a success. For me, the success is, A, how I participated in that, let's say if it's a client, and what do I take away from it? That's where success and failure is. If I do not take anything away, then to me, that's a failure.
Dan Ryan: I think it was about 10 years ago. I first, like, I love how you shared showing up with your family with intent. I remember when we were living in New York city, the elevator opened up into our apartment. And more often than not, I'd be walking home from work. I'd be on the phone. I'd walk into the apartment.
Alexa and three kids and running around and, and I'd be on the phone and I, it just, I don't know what, I just didn't know any better. And then a friend of mine, a guy named Brian, he's like, you know, what you should do when you get home. As you get into the elevator, put your phone down, obviously, you'd think, you think, I don't know why I didn't know that.
And just like as if you're walking in to do a presentation or walking into a meeting, just take a deep breath and put yourself into that mindset and be intentional about it. And I think it really changed the way I approached coming home. And it's that idea of intention. I, and it taught me so much and I really, I appreciate how you've learned.
That idea of intention through climbing and how you approach many things, but just taking that pause and thinking like, why am I doing this? And then approaching whatever I'm doing with that intention is game changing. And I really wish I could do it in everything, but I guess we're not perfect.
Hemanshu Parwani: We're not perfect. And here's a small, uh, tidbit that I would share. Uh, I mean, I tend to work out in the mornings, um, early mornings, but my intent starts the night before. And what I do is I keep my gym shoes next to my bed so that that's the intent for me that morning when I wake up, that I put on my shoes and that I'm going to go and work out.
So for me, the intent started the night before.
Dan Ryan: Exactly. Like, or getting into the elevator. I, yeah, I, I love that. And it's just really, it's like, it's just planning. Um, when you think of, This idea of intention, because I want to pull in that thread a little bit more. As you've grown your company, um, and where do you have offices now?
Hemanshu Parwani: Uh, we are in Seattle, New York, and another office should be coming online in the next three weeks. So we are waiting to reveal that.
Dan Ryan: Oh, okay. So there's some new exciting news coming out. But as you, as you think about growing your business and having new offices, new people, how do you and your leadership team approach that onboarding of bringing on new offices with intention?
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, the one thing that we often say, and I, I mean, this is something that I truly believe in, We as a firm, and that's my mantra as well, again, this goes back to the intent, we do not want to grow for the sake of growth. and I often say, we will, as a firm, be the size that we need to be. to do the work that, that inspires us, that we aspire for.
So our guiding light is the, the kind of projects, uh, that we would love to work on, we aspire to work on, or the project that will inspire us, will challenge us, will, uh, will force us to do things creatively. And that's why, I mean, growth is not something that we are chasing. We are chasing aspirational, meaningful work in design. And, and, and that parlays with that whole intent. Our intent is the kind of work. The intent is just not the growth. So it's a different lens of applying. It's a different way of applying Lens to, I mean, whether it's growth or the size, conversations that often happen.
Dan Ryan: And how do you know when a project is done? Do you, do you, cause sometimes you can approach a project cause it's a nice new shiny object as something that will inspire the team, the client, the community, but how do you, at the end of the project, do you ever, do you go back and reevaluate, okay, we're an after action for internally, like we're, were we on the mark?
Did we accomplish those? Higher order goals of inspiration. Um, and if not, do you recalibrate for searching for the next project or opening the next office?
Hemanshu Parwani: Absolutely. I mean, and this is one thing, I mean, especially, um, in Seattle, um, what we try and do is we have our annual, uh, summer party and we'll try and go back to one of the projects that we had designed and hold our event there. I mean, again, experiencing it in a different way, that space that we, we set out to design that was built.
There are folks that are using it. And, uh, and, uh, again, as another tidbit for this year, for example, we had done, uh, uh, a church here in Seattle. And we are holding, I mean, our event in that, I mean, they have a space and they, they, they were gracious enough to allow us to use that. Again, it's using that space and experiencing it and, and having, let's say 300 critical eyes saying, Hmm, this is what you could have done better.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I have doing furniture, supplying furniture to hotels. I remember early in my career, um, when I was buying furniture for hotels, I wanted, I really loved this armoire that I was doing. And one of my bosses was like, I was like, can I just order an extra one and I'll just come pick it up and drive it up to where I live?
And then one of my bosses was like, you know, the project is going, it's early in the project, but you don't know what's going to happen in the future. And the project turned out to be a huge nightmare. And I was like, and he said, you know what? I'm so glad he told me that because if I had gotten that and put it in my apartment, I would have been reminded of that terrible project for as long as I had that piece of furniture.
But I'm just happy that you are able to, I don't know, experience these spaces that you've built, but also see the positive. And the negative and use that to go forward.
Hemanshu Parwani: And, um, again, uh, just thinking, I mean, hospitality design. I mean, I would say it's a really, really small world. I mean, we often know folks, colleagues that we have either work alongside or they are our clients, et cetera. I mean, that happens so often. And, uh, in fact, I was traveling last summer in Europe and, uh, Um, a couple of weeks prior to that, I was on a panel with, uh, one of the furniture manufacturers and I was sharing them, Hey, I'm going there.
And he's like, Oh, we did the, um, uh, all the furnishings, et cetera, was built by us. I'm like, Oh, that's great. And I go there, I see something, I take a picture and send it to him, like, um, something that you may want to think about. And, and he was so gracious and the brand was like, I mean, they had just opened this property literally like two months.
Not even two months. And, and my, the whole, um, idea for me sharing this was that for me, it's all about helping people. I mean, like, we, we make each one of us better by communicating. Uh, there's. Enough work for everyone, I would say. Uh, so if you can connect people, it's about connections, building the community between hospitality, design, really, really small world.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, I'm glad you're, you're bringing that up because one of the things that I find in doing this podcast, we just finished 150 episodes. And one of the things that bugs the shit out of me, pardon my French, is I get such great information from the people I'm talking to. And the people who are listening to our conversation are going to learn and be impacted in this conversation we're having.
But then. I struggle because it just ends. So I've been experimenting. I'm not like a big fan of newsletters and I don't know if it'll turn into a bigger event or something, but my one stepping stone into whatever this community of guests that I've had here is I'm just going to start with a newsletter to show who the most recent.
Guest is, but then also it's, I'm calling it the Friday five. So it's who's the most recent guests. Oh, you just check this out. Then some learning from the past. So I'll find like a real, there's so many good nuggets of the guests that I have that I can share because again, it's about community, like you said, and also.
I love shortening other people's journeys. So it's like something that inspired me or impacted me. I want to just focus right into that at 35 minutes and 26 seconds. Here's the link. Just listen to what this person said about time and recipes and cooking, um, or whatever it could be. Um, then it's an inspirational photo or picture that I saw and then upcoming events so that we can all get them, get together and perhaps our paths will cross in person.
So I'm, I'm struggling. The newsletter is the first step in me trying to figure out how I get this group of 151 or two, you included, um, to continue the conversation and share the mutual learning because I, if we don't learn, if we don't learn from the past, we're just condemned to repeat it. And it's also the definition of insanity.
Um, but I don't, I like to look the more positive thing where it's, you know, It can help us be more intentional about everything that we're trying to do.
Hemanshu Parwani: I couldn't agree more with you on that. I mean, that's the way I feel as well. I mean, there is so much to learn. And I mean, I often joke, uh, at our office that That every day that I walk into my office, it may sound very cliched, I would say, but I just feel like it's that first day of walking into a space or, or, or work.
And there is so much creativity, so much energy. I mean, so many ideas that come and come through and I just feel like a sponge. I mean, I could listen to anyone and everyone talk about anything. And, uh, because you, you never know. I mean, we, I mean, at least for me, I mean, there is so much growing, uh, learning to do, uh, by just talking to people.
And I mean, this is a great example. You and I met for at a dinner
and we sat probably not even next to each
other. We were
somebody was in between, but like, um, and then we started talking. And then again, it's learning, I mean, like every day it was meeting those people. I was like, I'm always blown away that there is so much knowledge, so much enthusiasm with regards to sharing and helping each other.
I
mean, and all you need to do is. Be patient to listen and not come from a place that I am the know it all, because I think that's the biggest, uh, roadblock to learning, I would say.
Dan Ryan: totally. I actually just went on a retreat with my family and a couple other families, um, last week or week and a half ago. And one of the guides or facilitators that were there, um, he's, he said recently I was talking to him. He didn't say it there, but he said, look, you can go through life thinking that all these things happen to us. The good, the bad, but actually they're all happening for us. Right. It's how we're approaching and listening and being open to all of the new learnings that are there through all of the good and the bad. Um, so, and I guess that's why we kind of clicked because
I'm saying you and I,
Hemanshu Parwani: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: same kind of mentality and shared learning as we're all on these paths of growth and not growth for the sake of growth, it's growth for the sake of, of learning and inspiration and impact.
Um,
Hemanshu Parwani: And, and that reminds me, I mean, I, I believe, uh, of this individual, a hotelier, uh, Bashar, I believe Bashar has been, I don't know if has been on your
Bashar Wally,
Dan Ryan: number one,
Hemanshu Parwani: guest number one, Okay. I mean, I see him so often, again, a very generous person, and I love the fact that he says, I've never stayed in the same hotel twice, probably twice in his life.
I mean, and, and, and that inspires me. I mean, I talk to him, he's generous. He, he's a straight shooter, gives a lot of feedback and I'm like, awesome. I mean, it's so much about connecting and sharing.
Dan Ryan: Yes. Um, as Look forward and think about intention and the exciting new news, which I didn't realize that you're opening a new office in a location to be. Disclosed at a later point. Um, what's exciting you most as you're looking out there, business, personal, family, whatever, whatever category you want to talk about.
What's exciting you most as you look out into the future?
Hemanshu Parwani: Uh, on a personal level, uh, what's exciting me is I'm looking to do a climb, uh, and do an expedition. Towards the end of the year. So I've started training for that. So that's, that's something that I'm really looking forward to.
Dan Ryan: What continent?
Hemanshu Parwani: be Antarctica.
Dan Ryan: Oh boy. Great. That's amazing. So I'll have, you know, when I was in sixth or seventh grade, I was in the National Geographic spelling bee or geography bee for in my school. And I was It was me and someone else in the finals, and then we would have gone on to this New Jersey State Geography Bee, and they asked me what the biggest desert was in the world.
Hemanshu Parwani: It's Antarctica.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I said fucking Sahara, and he got it right, and he went on to New Jersey, but I will never forget that Antarctica, but that's really exciting. for
letting me share that. Okay, so Antarctica, so that's really amazing.
Hemanshu Parwani: Yeah, and, um, uh, on a work level, um, there's so much exciting work that we are doing. I mean, again, uh, with regards to, uh, whether it's hospitality or, uh, sustainability, Commercial. I mean, sustainability is a theme that's more and more in our work that we are doing across all different market sectors, geographies, uh, and whatnot.
And, and that's something that I'm really passionate about. Uh, and seeing as to what I feel is personally, I mean, again, this is more at a personal level, which is we've got to take care of this planet. I mean, there's Seven plus billion of us. Uh, and if he cannot fix it, there is no one else coming to fix it.
So, uh, it's a collective responsibility, uh, that we should all take on with intent. Again, that intent is key. Um, I've been on many panels talking sustainability and again, uh, I, for me, I want to add something to that. I mean, where we are. Sustainability, I would say it should be affordable sustainability and not just sustainability.
We often come from places of we're going to do all of this complex structures, etc. And, uh, and sustainability often gets either Value engineered out, or it's too expensive, etc. And, um, I was having this conversation, I don't know, with one of my friends, and I said, look at the basis, look at the villages in Asia or Africa.
They've got sustainability better figured out than some of the more developed countries. Process it because it's their need. It's not something they're saying, Oh, it's good for the plant. It's their need. If they are their sustainability for sustenance is kind of their, that's their, uh, uh, North Star because they need it.
And, and how do we make that happen with everything that we do? I mean, where it's a need for it. All of us for sustenance.
Dan Ryan: Looking at it from an architectural and design perspective with sustainability in the built environment, what do you think the biggest mover is? In trying to create or adaptively reuse new or new or existing buildings. What do you, how do you see that? How are you approaching that to have the largest impact?
Cause I realized that there's small impacts everyone can take, but there's also big ones and I'm trying to think about. From a development perspective, what, what do you see as the biggest mover?
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, I would say the biggest and again, going back to my previous, uh, comment about affordable sustainability, uh, it's important, I, the biggest mover is how projects are cited and aligning the vision with what the place can sustain and support. I think that's the key thing. And when I say that, As to how we orient the space, uh, how much of an impact you want to have on the land on which it is suited, and kind of leveraging the surroundings versus fighting the surrounding.
And, uh, and we often, well, not often, but we are seeing some projects where we would say, what were you thinking and, and, and putting something like this in this location where we're constantly fighting the elements, the nature that's there. If you leverage that, that's where the affordable aspect of sustainability comes in.
How you site the, uh, uh, the buildings, the choice of materials, learning from what's around that site. I mean, because that, that has been sustainable, if not, uh, without human intervention. And how do we learn from that and use that?
the one thing, I mean, again, going back to the theme that we've had in this conversation about intent and having that intentionality, uh, with regards to sustainability is key and, uh, we are seeing more and more, uh, brands, Uh, and capital, uh, funds that are kind of aligned on that vision with regards to sustainability.
Is there not star as they think about projects
Dan Ryan: I think also what's interesting there as far as capital too, if nor, if sustainability is part of your North star and you can measure it and show it, it actually, and it's starting to, and hopefully it do more, lower the cost of capital, um, and increase returns. And I think that's, I think that's actually really exciting.
Hemanshu Parwani: and I would also add that oftentimes, uh, when we talk about sustainability, we have probably one lens to look at it, which is in the context of choice of materials and or, uh, recycling, uh, Uh, uh, uh, stuff. That is one lens. I mean, there is cultural sustainability, there is economic sustainability, I mean, I was talking to a group in Singapore, uh, last year, and I mean, my conversation was around taking a step beyond sustainability, which was more about regenerative, as in giving more back than taking from the site, from the people, giving more back into the communities, uh, and how do we create that four different pillars of sustainability and apply all of those different lenses?
Dan Ryan: How do we,
Hemanshu Parwani: Oh, uh, how do we? Great question. Uh, it requires, uh, will of the, uh, let's say the owners, developers, uh, will of the, uh, Um, the government or the municipalities and this thing intent by, uh, the people in and around that sites or locations and, uh, uh, it's, I would say it's the entire ecosystem has to, to think on, on, on all those four different pillars.
Dan Ryan: so it's, it's the will of the developer, the will of the government, the will of the community, and then the whole community or the, the environment around where the project is situated.
Hemanshu Parwani: Yes.
Dan Ryan: And those are the four pillars and trying to get alignment there and get all that to happen. I think that, I think that's exciting too, because I am seeing that happen more and more, but it's still a slow rush.
It's a, it's it, but it, but, but the, uh, the current is increasing. And I think it's very reassuring. As you were talking about affordable sustainability within the past couple of weeks, I also just saw who Barry Sternlich is like a visionary, incredible human for our industry. And it's so amazing. I recently saw a sizzle reel of. One hotels and sustainability is like woven deeply into one hotels. And then as I, and I, and the projects that they showed that are open and the renderings of the future ones, it's mind blowing. I mean, it's so incredible and cool and unique and new, but. I was thinking after I saw it, I was like, you know, I first encountered him, he was developing W hotels way back in the day.
And that was approachable. It was so exciting as someone who was just entering the workforce and leaving college to other people who've already they're grownups and they're, they're coming in to have this kind of fun experience. Um, it was approachable by all different economics, right? Whether you're going to the bar or staying there, it was, right?
It was a really incredible, um, pivotal moment within our industry. When I saw this sizzle reel of double, of uh, of One Hotels, I was, I was so struck by how incredible it looked, but I was also like, this is not approachable by like regular humans. All those people that found How exciting W was from a, from an exciting hospitality experience.
It's it's luxury, but I'm like, how do you take what he's creating there and have it be more approachable for everyone? Because I do think hospitality more than any other asset class has the ability to have a halo effect on if you're doing sustainability the right way. You can actually have all those guests come in, educate and inspire them if they're open to it.
And then they go on and then they're, I don't know, putting solar panels on their house, or
Hemanshu Parwani: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: I don't know, buying a hybrid car, or it can help inform their decisions as they go out into their daily lives. But I found it as incredible as One Hotels is, I just found it very Unapproachable. And Barry, if you're listening, I do want you on here and we can talk about it because you're amazing.
Um, but I don't know that I just walked away with that feeling.
Hemanshu Parwani: Well, I mean, again, uh, I was recently seeing, uh, uh, in fact, uh, uh, I don't know if you'll be there, Dan, at hd, uh, in, uh, in, in next week, I wanna say.
Dan Ryan: I will be there.
Hemanshu Parwani: Okay. Yeah, I'll be there as well. I mean, uh, we should definitely try and meet. But, uh, uh, I, I'm, uh, on one of the panels and, uh, one of my co-panelists, uh, is, is a GM for.
the first carbon positive hospitality product that's coming to the market soon. And, uh, I'm looking forward to that conversation because there is intent in design, there's intent in operations, and there is intent in as to how the capital structure and all of those things that have happened. And there is intent around engaging with the community.
And, uh, I'm super keen to, to pick brains like that where All the four pillars came together, uh, to, to create something which is regenerative, which likely is affordable. I mean, uh, for a product to be out there
Dan Ryan: What project is it?
Hemanshu Parwani: um, it's a, it's a hotel called Populous,
Dan Ryan: Oh, cool. I don't, I have to learn about that. Okay. I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that session. Oh, great. Yeah. I'm seeing more and more that are happening. I haven't, I haven't heard about a carbon positive project yet, but I also am not paying attention to a hundred, uh, Everything going on, but I'm very intrigued and I want to learn about that.
Hemanshu Parwani: right? Yeah. I'm looking forward to that conversation as well because, um, yeah. I mean, a lot of things have come together. I mean, um, and I'm looking forward to, um, uh, their operating philosophy. And in fact, that also reminds me of, um, another visionary luminaire, uh, Sonu, uh, Shivdasani, I mean, his offering in Maldives.
I mean, again, it's, uh, I mean, getting to Maldives is not really, you know, As easy or sustainable in my view, but I mean, given where it's location, but, uh, there is the right intent with regards to property, at least his properties, uh, in the region where, uh, it comes from a place of hospitality. When I say godliness, I mean, you feel that, I mean, when you walk into the space, you see the people, you talk to them, there's a human connection.
And as to how. that group or they take care of the employees in terms of not just, uh, sustenance or housing, but as to, uh, kind of the next generation, uh, for their staff, et cetera. So, uh, it's, uh, it's a broader, broader, uh, approach at, uh, that's one of the pillars, I mean, with regards to sustainability, which is again, the cultural aspect,
kind of learning from the cultures and giving back to the cultures as well.
Dan Ryan: Um, yeah, I think that on the sustainability front I do feel that more from small items to larger items like site selection, I do think, There is a breakthrough that's happening and I'm just excited to see it and also be a part of it and like, for instance, Berman Falk, a company, um, that I'm very involved with, they just recently made a effort or made an announcement and they're doing it.
They're not using, uh, EPS foam in packaging the case goods for guest rooms. There was no, no other way to package things is everything is always different. It's all custom. We're like, how can we change? What can we do that's different? If we are measuring everything, what's, what's the lowest hanging fruit and it's packaging, but it's from those small little choices
to the larger choices.
I think in, and aggregate it all makes a tremendous difference. Um, so I'm glad that that's exciting you and you're seeing that and approaching that with intent as well.
Hemanshu Parwani: And I think every small step makes a difference. I mean, uh, given the number of folks and it's also creating, uh, I would say changing the behavior pattern. I mean, somehow we came out of, I mean, centuries ago with regards to sustainability being part of, uh, everything that we did to over consumerism where everything had to be use and throw.
and then to adaptive reuse. So I think we are going, uh, almost, I would love to say a full circle. We are not there yet, but, uh, as, uh, hospitality, um, brands or spaces kind of factor that into the DNA. I mean, uh, operations is a really critical, critical long term thing where sustainability gets to play a significant part. And, and that's important. Uh, operations includes people as to how spaces are run. And again, behavior change is, is what's going to drive sustainability and, and a regenerative, uh, process, um, with regards to operations, hospitality.
Dan Ryan: I agree. And I think that the flywheel I think was where you were going with that. It's like, it's being built. So it's, it, we have momentum and
inertia has broken and now there's momentum. Um, HP, if you look back at the time when you first, discovered the love of hospitality when you were a child in India with your parents at that hotel.
If the HP I'm talking to now, who's built companies had all these different, um, experiences within the hospitality industry, climbing, all the stresses and extremes that you put yourself through in your life, approaching everything with intent. What advice do you have for your younger self?
Hemanshu Parwani: Ooh. Uh, and I think a lot of that comes from my climbing, uh, passion. I mean, uh, uh, I use two terms in my, in my lexicon, at least internally or even externally, uh, when I'm talking to folks. One is find your Everest. I've always said that, and it could mean anything in your day to day. Find your Everest. And the second thing I say is, channel your passion into compassion and, uh. I would say, I would have given that find your Everest advice to a younger myself, a man, a long time ago. I mean, again, like you pointed out, sometimes you get into the way of life and things just happen to you instead of you finding your Everest and being intentional about it.
Dan Ryan: And having it happen for you. I also think the other thing, I love that. I also think something that many people forget is, okay, if they have their Everest and they climb their Everest, there's always another mountain ahead,
Hemanshu Parwani: Yes.
Dan Ryan: right? So it's, we can never rest on completing the Everest. We always have to be thinking of what the next Everest is.
And I love Channeling, um,
Hemanshu Parwani: And
Dan Ryan: or compassion into, no,
Hemanshu Parwani: channeling your passion into
Dan Ryan: passion into compassion.
Yeah. Because then the compassion is you're giving, not only it's your passion that's feeding you, if you can find it and then help others with your passion, that's checking all the boxes. That's amazing.
Hemanshu Parwani: And one quote, it's not mine, it's by, uh, a very renowned climber, Ed Wiesters, uh, uh, the first American to do the, uh, all 14, uh, 8, 000 meter peaks without oxygen. And his quote, which is in his book, is, uh, going up is optional, coming down is mandatory.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, true. You always got to get down.
One way or the other. Um,
Hemanshu Parwani: about, uh, Sure, you do your Everest, but what's next? There is another mountain. That's why I say climbing. And like he says, climbing up is optional, coming down mandatory.
Dan Ryan: HP, I've enjoyed this conversation so much and also just for helping me think more about improving my 75 percent of intentionality to get it north of 80. Um, Again, these conversations are great for everyone else, but I get so much out of them as well, because now I'm, my mind is racing about how I can turn up the volume on my intentionality about everything.
So I, I thank you, and I appreciate you. And if our listeners wanted to hear what or learn more about you or Olsen Kundig, um, how can they find you?
Hemanshu Parwani: Um, they can find me and my, and the firm, uh, either through website, uh, we can have the details or through LinkedIn. I'm on, I'm fairly active on that. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, those are the primary channels, email, email, LinkedIn, and, uh, website.
That would be the best way, uh, to, to, I mean, if somebody wants to reach out again, like I said, in my, uh, in our, in our conversation, it's all about connecting with one another and helping.
If I can help anyone, I am more than, more than open to, uh, to, uh, listening from folks, uh, and, or learning from them. It's vice versa. I mean, you, you, you give something, you get, I mean, every conversation. Uh, becomes so much more meaningful. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I want to thank you for inviting me on this. I mean, um, like like some of the folks that we just mentioned who've been on your podcast, I feel really privileged and honored to be here.
And, uh, it, it was a great conversation. I loved every bit of it. And, uh, I'm looking forward to seeing you in, in, at HD.
Dan Ryan: Yes. As soon as I hit stop record, we're going to talk about where it is. We're going to, we're going to meet up. Um, so I'm, I'm excited about that. And also not only thank you, want to thank Aggie from Laird coming and inviting us to that dinner, because that was just incredible and such a great place.
And
at a very busy conference, we were able to just kind of, I just felt like We were just able to slow down and chill out and it was just so great. So thank you, um, Auggie.
Hemanshu Parwani: Likewise, thank you to Aggie. I mean, I've known her for many years and it's a small world.
Dan Ryan: Yes. Um, and thank you to our listeners. I know that we've grown. Just by word of mouth and some promotion on LinkedIn that I've just all done, uh, by myself, but check out the newsletter, sign up. It's a defining hospitality. I'll put it in there as well. And without you, we wouldn't be growing. And there's so many great nuggets that come from all of these podcasts.
So I'm going to do my best to repurpose a lot of that really good content and the small bite sized bits so that y'all Can shorten your journeys and find your Everest and turn your passion into compassion and be more intentional about everything. See, HP, now we're going to have to write a book. Um, but thank you all.
Thank you everyone. This has been wonderful. Um, we'll catch you next time.