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Host Scott Lollar is a 35-year veteran of the painting industry and founder of Consulting4Contractors. The 'Success Beyond The Brush' Podcast serves as a touchpoint to painting contractors who have hustled, sacrificed, and worked hard to get their business to where it is today. Now, you need the guidance, expertise, experience, and team to make it into the multi-million-dollar company of your dreams. You'll hear stories and interviews from "Brothers of the Brush" and "Sisters of the Sprayer" who have been where you are and are charting a new course for their company's success. Listen in and go beyond $1,000,000!
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[00:00:00]
Introduction: Experts, Not Influencers
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Scott: We have a little thing that we say here, which is, we're experts, not influencers. Now my marketing people hate that, but I've never been one that's really good on camera, on Instagram. It's just
not my
Mark: no TikTok viral dances for you. Okay? Okay.
Scott: there's anything viral about me, then it's probably bad. So, the one thing that I think is that there's a lot of people trying to sell you their time or their program, but have not really done it at a high level, and haven't done it to the millions of dollars that we have. You know, we did a little survey with our coaches recently. We have 120 years of combined contracting experience on our team. I think that we're probably approaching 70 or $80 million at least of revenue in our clients, and we only work with select people. We don't have hundreds and hundreds of clients. We have, you know, a smaller boutique I don't make any apologies for that because what I really do with clients is give them the [00:01:00] time they need and when they need it.
So it's not a like a therapy session where you get your 50 minutes and then get out and don't call me again until you come back. You know, we are really accessible and we want to walk through with you holistically.
Success Beyond the Brush: Episode Overview
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Welcome back to Success Beyond the Brush. In this episode, Mark Black and Scott Lollar answers some listener questions, starting with Scott's personal background and how he came up through the painting industry, and then moving into practical frameworks for choosing the right coach, stopping that endless cycle of putting out fires on a daily basis, hiring key people, and even building a team with clear ownership and accountability.
We're glad you've joined us again. Let's jump into this episode.
Listener Q&A: Scott's Background in the Painting Industry
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Mark: Welcome everybody once again to another great podcast Beyond the Brush. I'm your host, Mark Black, here with Scott Lollar.
Scott: Hey, Mark. Good to see you as always.
Mark: Yes sir. We are always happy to talk with Consulting4Contractors, which Scott has founded today. We've got a fun [00:02:00] episode planned. We've got a couple different questions and it's not going to be one particularly main topic.
We've actually got some Q&A from our listeners, so this is going to be a random hodgepodge of questions. Scott, are you just ready for me to rapid fire these at you?
Scott: I am ready and slightly nervous.
Mark: We've actually gotten this question a few times, and I'm surprised we haven't covered it yet, with as many episodes as we've already recorded. A lot of people want to know more about you, other than what they've found out on your website, or some people may have known your reputation in the industry.
Could you give us just like a five minute brief history of you in this industry. Where do you come from? What's your background?
Scott: Yeah, where do I come from, man? We'd all like to know.
The Journey: From Entrepreneurial Beginnings to Consulting
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Scott: So, I am actually a hustler entrepreneurial, when I was in high school, actually, when I was a child, like five years old child, the stories that my parents told were I would get up on a Saturday morning, and I would say, Hey, let's go do yard work. Let's [00:03:00] go guys, let's go do some yard work. Let's do that. That's, and I remember. And I remember as a small child, like first grade, pulling weeds for our neighbor for whatever, I don't know, a dollar or 50 cents or whatever it was. So I just always had just this work ethic and I just always was entrepreneurial even as a child.
So, through high school I had a couple of friends, they were twins and their dad owned properties, so we were always cleaning gutters, raking leaves, cleaning out, you know, two flats. And then, this is maybe more than you want to know, but I think it's a great story. A neighbor, the neighbor of one of my high school teachers lived next to an elderly couple.
He was an attorney. They were deep into their seventies at this point, and they'd shovel their snow for him when it snowed. And the lady said, Hey, thanks for doing my snow. Maybe you have a student that would do this. So they said, Hey, why don't you go shovel their snow? So I started doing that. And then she had a little maid that came and did some stuff and she quit. [00:04:00] And the lady, Mrs. Worhle is her name, said, Hey, you want to clean my house? Now, it wasn't really like to clean their house as much as a little bit of a companion. She had tons of vinyl wallpaper. Wash the walls, vacuum, clean the bathroom.
I used to iron her husband's clothes. And I did that for a long time. And then in the spring, mowed her lawn, and then the fateful question, do you think you could paint my house. house
Mark: Ah, there it is.
Scott: There it is. The response was, how hard could it be? So some of you old timers back in, this would be back in the mid 1980s, Glidden, oil-based house paint.
I painted her house and that's kind of how I got my start.
And I, and back in that time I would mow lawns and I started painting houses and I just, it just happened. And, so then eventually was, it was college time and we were college prepped. There was no indication in my town [00:05:00] and my high school that there was anything that you were going to possibly do, but go to college.
It just was a foregone conclusion. And so I took that route, but I probably shouldn't have. It was pretty expensive. And I worked, of course to put myself through college, so I probably spent more time working than I did at class. But the good news is I did find my fabulous, wonderful wife in college.
So, I do remind her on occasion that I can tell her exactly how much she cost as far as that dowry, but, so that's how I kind of got started. And then, so I'm fully self-taught as a painter and as we've talked about before I, did paint, and once college was done, I thought, well, why would I go work for someone else?
And I just continued. And that's, you know, the rest is history. I focused on painting. And then over the last, say 30 years before I got into consulting, I was part of PCA back then it was called PDCA and we had local chapters. So a lot of people knew me and I kept getting the attention of people saying, Hey, you have some [00:06:00] skills that I'd love to have have you work with me.
So I kept getting recruited to go work, and help other people scale their companies. And I did that a couple times. I enjoyed that because I didn't really enjoy wearing all the hats in my own business. So, what I really kind of was great at, was operations. I mean, really was my jam. I could sell.
I'm not like a thorough bred salesperson, but I could sell. I've done the Sandler system and I know how to sell, but really operations was my jam. And so, several times we helped grow companies into the multimillions. And, the last company we did this with, which was Aaron Moore at PPD, we did most of that growth in the commercial repaint market. So, I kind of became some sort of an expert on commercial repaints and then just through some different circumstances I was looking for an opportunity and was invited to coach with an organization. Did that with him for about a year and a half, and then, went out on my own and here we are.
So, [00:07:00] does that answer question? Is that close enough?
Mark: I think we're going to need a whole podcast to break down the longer story, but that might satisfy our question asker for today. And just a little bit of background. Yeah. You've got a great name in the industry and obviously you've helped in the commercial world a ton, but I think it's good for our audience to know that you're not just a guy who read some books and decided to start a consulting firm.
You've come up through the trenches.
Scott: Yeah, and I had some great mentors back in the early 2000's. Lanaya Blair, who really is the, in my opinion, the I don't know godfather? No, not the Godfather, the Godmother of KPIs. She's the one that taught us all how to organize your chart of accounts and how to read the numbers and which numbers were important and how to track them.
And she was the one that really taught me that and I just loved that information. And so that's really something that we focus on heavily here because people don't know their data. And then as many know in 2020, [00:08:00] I actually created, with Eric Barstow of Painting Business Pro, a commercial course, how to help residential repaint contractors that don't know enough about commercial work to not get hurt, if they just jumped in.
But that this service was really important to add to your residential repaint and how to do it successfully, carefully, what are the things they need to know? So Eric and I created that course, and it's been very successful. We have hundreds and hundreds of people that have purchased that course, and that still is available today. I do some Q&A every month to that group of people, and we do a lot of commercial coaching. In fact, we're soon to be bringing on someone that focuses just on commercial coaching at C4C.
Mark: Oh, that's so great. And I know a lot of residential people are curious about the commercial world. Often we dip our toe in, but to your point it can be a dangerous world. And for those that don't know and just treat it like a residential job, you're going to, hurt your business.
Scott: [00:09:00] Yeah,
Mark: Do your research.
Scott: Yeah, I field those calls all the time where people are getting pinched or are really over a barrel because they didn't know something that they should have known or include this something. So we can really help people get into that area carefully and gently and they can grow.
And it's a beautiful segment. Everyone, I think should consider it.
Mark: That's awesome.
The Value of Coaching: Why Choose Consulting4Contractors
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Mark: Hey, that actually brings us to question number two. So with your rise through the trenches, you've come up now you're a consultant to painting business owners. Question number two says, with the rise of coaching and being aware of a larger network of business owners, there's lots of noise out there.
When you look for a coach or a consultant, there's lots of different options and a lot of people saying different things. How would you respond to that, as a consultant in the industry? Do you agree that there's lots of noise, and if so, how are you different?
Scott: I'm not sure about the noise part, but there are obviously a lot [00:10:00] of what we would call
influencers. And we have a little thing that we say here, which is, we're experts, not influencers. Now my marketing people hate that, but I've never been one that's really good on camera, and on Instagram. It's just not my
Mark: no TikTok viral dances for you. Okay? Okay.
Scott: there's anything viral about me, then it's probably bad. So, I guess what I would say is, is that there's a lot of people trying to sell you their time or their program, but have not really done it at a high level, and haven't done it to the millions of dollars that we have. You know, we did a little survey with our coaches recently. We have 120 years of combined contracting experience on our team. I think that we're probably approaching 70 or $80 million at least of revenue in our clients. And we only work with select people. We don't have hundreds and hundreds of clients. We have, you know, a smaller boutique and I don't. I don't make any apologies for [00:11:00] that because what I really do with clients is give them the time they need and when they need it.
So it's not a, like a therapy session where you get your 50 minutes and then get out and don't call me again until you come back. You know, we are really accessible and we want to walk through with you holistically. The other thing that a lot of people have, and some have very good programs, I'm not criticizing this, but they have a program, you're going to start in step one, step two, step three, step four.
We do work with smaller contractors. In fact, we're rolling out a new program that's group coaching so that, you know, people that aren't ready for the cost of the full immersion one-on-one program can do that. But, we're starting where you are and looking at the things you need to add.
If you're amazing at sales and marketing, I'm not going to focus on sales and marketing, right? You already have that, but you might have an operational need or you don't have any clue about your KPIs, or you think you're making all this money, but you have no clue why there's no money in the bank. Well, it's because you don't know how to look at [00:12:00] your financials or you don't know how to, you know, get your KPIs in a way that you can use them. So we really often get a little bit confused. Are we coaches or consultants? I'm not sure. We're probably both, but what I think a lot of people out there is they have programs. They have something uploaded on the web somewhere that you can access and read. But I think if that's all we needed, then I'm not sure we need a coach because there's tons of information. There's books. Go read a book. Well, how come we read the book and then we still stay the same. We stay the same because we have no one to hold us accountable, encourage us and help us when we're stuck.
And I think that's what's unique and what we really do. And I think we're experts. I mean, we truly are experts. We're just not, some fly by night that, you know, worked for a couple years at a college program and had some success because we're pretty good. And now we're coaches. That's not us.
And I'm not trying to take shots at anyone that I just referenced. [00:13:00] Some very good programs out there, no issue at all. But that's what makes us different. And I think that a lot of people are very adverse to this idea that they would need a coach. I have a coach. I employ a coach, and I would never imagine not having one, and I never don't have something to discuss with my coach when we have our call. So, a coach is someone to process with, to learn from because they're experts at something I would hope. But in addition, too, how to get you unstuck when you're stuck, or how to help you process messy things in your company when they're messy. That's really the value more than just that I'm going to give you 10 chapters in some book to read and start implementing. You won't. Because if you were, then you wouldn't be stuck the way you are today.
Mark: Yeah, that's true. I agree with everything you've said. And also I would add, as a coaching client myself, I always liken it to the physical gym, like hiring a fitness coach, which I desperately need. I don't enjoy going to the gym. That's [00:14:00] not my, that's not my nature. There's lots of equipment in there. I know that I need it.
I know it would be good for me and I could probably go in there and flail around and burn calories and it would be good for me. I don't have to hire a coach, but what the coach gives me, as you referenced, is motivation. Sometimes when I don't feel like it, they're going to push me because they know me and they know what I'm trying to avoid and that probably is what's good for me.
They're also going to shave a time factor off of the learning, of targeting core groups and certain muscle groups, and you need to do this on this day and tomorrow we're going to do that. We're going to maximize your work to maximize your return actually. And same thing in our businesses.
We could probably figure this stuff out with as many business books and things on the internet, we could probably figure a lot of this out, but there's a time factor that, boy, by the time you wade through all that information, I love the customization. You know me, you know my business, you know my people. You know what's good for me, [00:15:00] you know how I think and you're able to keep me on the straight and narrow, even when I want to stray, I appreciate that.
Scott: Yeah. And we also have a community where we have a place where our members can talk to each other, ask questions, Hey, does someone have such and such a contract? Or, what background check tool are you using or whatever, that kind of thing. And then we have an annual retreat, which is fabulous for those that enjoy getting together.
And we do deep dives and have fantastic community around us as well, which I think is very valuable. Because I do think that owning a business can be super lonely and you sometimes just want someone else to help you carry the load. And that's what a community can do for you besides, you know, a coach.
Mark: That's a great point. I've had two people from our group text me this week just to check in. They know we're going through a tough time and I love that community.
Scott: Yeah, you're going through something. And what I love, you know, you addressed the physical, the gym I've, about six or seven months ago, found something that was a good fit for me finally, and that's a small group training. [00:16:00] Organization where it's just a small storefront. It's no more than four people to one trainer, maximum of eight in the class. You show up and make an appointment.
So there's an appointment, right. I, you know, how many times have we said, okay, I'm going to go to the gym tomorrow. You wake up, you're like I don't know if I want to go today. I don't know what exactly like you said, walk in there, it's a big, huge room full of a bunch of stuff. You don't know what to do with, and so you say, ah ha, I'm going to skip it. I'll go tomorrow. And you know, next thing you know, you're four years down the road.
Where in this case you walk in at the time that you made your appointment. So there's an appointment, I'm going to leave my house, get in my car, and go. They're going to tell me exactly what to do, how many times to do it, what weight to do it with. They're going to show me how to do it. They're going to tell me what muscle group I'm working on and they're going to encourage me through it. And in 57 minutes it's going to be over, which is the best thing about working them out, in my opinion, the end.
But they told me what to do, how to do it, how many times to do it, and they stayed with me. And I think that's really one of the main benefits. And as odd as that might sound for some of people that are better at self-starting and being self, you know, [00:17:00] pacing, you know, someone to help you write a list of to-dos and action items and hold you accountable and say, Hey, when are you going to do this?
Did you do this? Why don't we get this done? I think that's, it's invaluable.
Mark: I agree, and probably most of our listeners, if they're listening to a podcast from a consulting agency, they probably already see the value in it. But there may be listeners that have not particularly chosen a place to coach with or to consult with. And I think they would be wise to consider your company.
Scott: I'll just tell you this short story. Last week I had a client who came to the call and he said, you know, I want to just be transparent with you, when I woke up this morning, I was not wanting to talk to you today.
And I'm why? Well, he says, well, because I haven't really done the things that I agreed to do.
And so he was feeling a little, but isn't that what it's about? Is to, you know, I don't want him to not, I don't want him to be like discouraged, but just the fact is he knew in the moment that he was going to meet with somebody who was going to ask him, how's it [00:18:00] going on the things that you claimed were important?
And he was going to say, I haven't done anything. And he knew in the moment that he had not done what he said he was important.
So, you know, it was interesting, that's what he came with. And I assured him that, you know, he didn't have to feel that way that I was on his team and I was going to be gentle and patient and walk with him.
But you know, just that moment of saying, oh shoot, I know what's coming.
Mark: I've been in that chair.
Scott: Heck yeah. Oh,
did.
Mark: That's funny. I've taken piano lessons since I was very young. Thankfully I stuck with it and piano is one of my favorite things in my life. But I remember going to several piano lessons, to your point, and I hadn't practiced, but I was good enough that I could kind of halfway fake it.
But my teachers were also good enough to realize you're totally winging this. You have not practiced at all and just getting busted.
Scott: Yeah. You're like, I'm going to get a Gold star because I'm going to, I can do it. And they're like I, because they know there's more in you too. They know that
Mark: [00:19:00] Exactly. I could fool my mom, you know, to her I sounded amazing, but not to somebody who actually knows, not to the expert.
Well, we're about halfway through this episode of Success Beyond the Brush. And if this conversation is resonating with you at all and you're realizing that maybe information alone isn't your problem, you may want to explore working with a coach who's been through the exact same challenges that you are facing today.
Scott Lollar and the team at Consulting4Contractors specialize in helping contractors like you get organized, build systems, hire the right people and even scale without becoming the bottleneck in your own business. You can learn more and schedule a free discovery call directly with Scott by visiting consulting4contractors.com.
That's consulting4contractors.com. There's no pressure, just a conversation to see if coaching is the right next step for you. You'll also find additional resources and links in the show notes, or the video description. Let's jump [00:20:00] back into this episode with Mark Black and Scott Lollar.
Organizing as Business Owners: From Firefighting to Efficiency
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Mark: So this is kind of a big subject, but I'd love to hear your response. So, this person writes, how do we organize ourselves as owners? Everything feels important. And that is not unusual, especially for doers that turned into business owners, technicians that turned into business owners.
Everything feels important, and so we just run around being firemen, putting out fires every minute of every day, and so we feel good at the end of the day. How do we turn that corner in our own lives to organize ourselves and maximize our time?
Scott: Yeah. Wow. Big one. I'm going to pull out a few different ideas here because I have a few authors that I want to reference that might be helpful. So, of course the E-Myth Michael Gerber, that is a old publication. It's got to be at least 40 years or maybe older. That's a really Foundational concept and book that I would suggest everyone read. Probably the E-Myth revisited or the E-Myth contractor.
Identifying and Solving Recurring Problems
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Scott: [00:21:00] But when you see something happening over and over then you would, a key frustration is what is called, is that you would solve it with a process or a system.
So as you're describing this fireman mentality, why do we go out there with our fire extinguisher and put out the same fire every day? It just seems dumb, right? Well, you just have to figure out why the fire happened and then fix it. So, one tool I would use for that is a Toyota Way, which is asking the question why five times?
Why did I have to go out there to that job site when I didn't plan to? Because they were out of paint. Why were they out of paint? Because we didn't order any paint yesterday. Why don't we have to order any paint yesterday? Because you know, just on and on. And you get to the root of that cause and fix that.
And you fix it forever. Kind of like the, I can give you a fish and feed you for a meal, or I can teach you to fish and feed you for life. It's the same concept.
The Power of Planning and Delegation
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Scott: And the reason, Mark, it doesn't happen is because you don't make a plan to do one thing. And so you do nothing but you, you [00:22:00] firefight all day. So, taking one thing and solving it, and then you're done with that thing, or delegate or whatever the second thing you solve, then you're done with that. Then you just keep going. And so think about this. Make it ridiculous. What if you could solve one problem a week? You'd have 52 problems solved or processes completed in a year. Even if you did it every other week, you know you'd have 26. So this idea of being overwhelmed by all the chaos, but you get through to do one thing. Now the other thing I'm going to reference is Michael Hyatt, Free To Focus. Fantastic book. I would encourage everyone to read it. I tell people to put everything through this filter.
Can I automate this, eliminate this, or delegate it? Because there's a lot of things that we should be delegating to others and letting them do them, and yet we don't. And I again think that's because we don't make a good plan. We don't get ahead of it. So it's too late for me to, you know, get someone else to order the [00:23:00] equipment, so I'm going to have to take care of it now.
Right.
Time Management Strategies
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Scott: So it's, that's time management. Urgent and important. Right? That's staying out of that quadrant. You might be, you have heard that called the Eisenhower Matrix or the Covey Quadrant. Most people spend the time in the wrong quadrant, which is, it's important and it's urgent. You know, the customer's frustrated and I got to go take care of it now. Versus the quadrant you should spend your time in, which is, it's not urgent. It doesn't have to be done right this second. No, nothing's on fire, but it's important. Planning my week is important. Ordering paint for next week is important, but it's not urgent. Doesn't have to be done right this second. So getting control and I think calendaring that is also helpful. Putting stuff on your calendar so that between 10 and 12 on these days, I do this between eight and nine, on these days I do this. And I think that helps at least give you something to see, to say, Hey, I'm supposed to be doing something different during that timeframe.
Operating in Your Freedom Zone
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Scott: [00:24:00] So, the last thing I'll say, and this comes also from Free To Focus, is this idea of someone like a business owner spending all their time in what he calls, his Freedom Zone, which is they're passionate about what they're doing and they're proficient.
If you're not good at selling, then I don't want you to sell. If you're not good at marketing, I don't want you to do marketing if you're not, you know, so What's your proficiency? What is the superpower you bring to your company? That's what I want you to do, and if you're not passionate or proficient, then I need you to find someone else that does it better than you because it sucks energy from you. You don't like doing it. So that's when a lot of procrastination happens. Because I just don't want to do that, so I'm not going to do it.
Well, okay, how's that help? Because it's never going to get done. You're just going to be frustrated. And then are you really good at that? Are you the best person to do that thing, that task, that department, that whatever. So, you know, there's a lot of different things that I kind of just cobbled together, but this idea of [00:25:00] understanding what is your uniqueness and what is your superpower in your company? Making sure everything else gets pushed somewhere else. Getting clear on your schedule and operating in your Freedom Zone and in and in the right time quadrant. All those things kind of melding into one concept, which is use your time for the most impactful thing every day, every week, every month, every year.
Mark: Yeah. And one thing you've taught me as well as a business owner is there, there's kind of some large group things that I do weekly that we can plan for. You mentioning like ordering paint and materials for the next week. I know that I always do that on Thursday, and so why not just set that time aside, as you said in my calendar and it at three 30 every Thursday, that's what's going to happen.
And there's a hundred things like that through the week. On Mondays I got to do these tasks, Tuesdays I do these tasks, and then those popup fires that come in, they're actually interrupting the things that are already scheduled and sometimes I can weave in some extracurriculars between the things that [00:26:00] I've set, but that help me organize as well.
Scott: And this also comes out of the same book, Free To Focus. So I guess I'm going to say go read Free to Focus by Michael Hyatt, everybody.
But the other thing about putting those appointments or that work on your calendar when you have a, as you called it, fire when it comes in and said, Hey, I have a fire. You say, man, Mark, I'd love to help you with your fire. I simply can't. I've got an appointment.
Now they don't need to know that the appointment is
To build an SOP or to do whatever that's, but you're saying, Hey, I've got an appointment.
Creating a Culture of Independence
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Scott: And when I work with project managers, we're talking about project management, when we have someone call, a frustrated customer, frustrated crew leader or subcontractor, whatever it is or something they need something they can't fi that we go, oh, okay. I'll be right over. I'm going to grab my cape and I'm going to get on my horse and I'm going to like, no, that's a Superman complex. No. Ask them what, what are some solutions? Rick Bruno has a fantastic thing with his crew. He says, don't call me unless you have three solutions. I might help you pick the best one, but [00:27:00] don't even call because I'm not going to solve your problem. Okay? I'm just telling you now. Do not call me because I'm not solving your problem.
Because I'm not Superman. You can do it. You're there. Talk to the customer, figure it out. You know? And you know, sometimes you're going to have to go out there if it's really a crisis, but you know. I can't help you. I would love to. Sorry. I've got an appointment with, and it's and just say, figure it out.
Let know how it worked out.
Mark: It is funny how that also creates culture in your team. If you've got a culture of dependent people who need you to answer, it will get worse and vice versa. If you give them space to make decision and then support them, you'll have fewer calls.
Scott: I guarantee if you solve their problems, they will stop even thinking. They're just like,
I'm just going to call because I'm, you know, I don't even need to think. I, he's going to take care of this. And the other thing is, if you're the kind of person that always says, why did you do that? That was a wrong decision.
They also won't
take the initiative because no matter what they [00:28:00] do, it was wrong. So if you're that person, either way, just affirm them and, you know, we are a growth, we call ourselves a growth coach. You know, we're dealing with typically people that are growing, scaling. You thinking you're going to be able to handle every little thing. You know, people are going to do things slightly different than you did when you started this company, and that's going to have to be okay. You know, create the parameters, create the bullseye, so to speak. And you know what, they're probably not going to hit the bullseye. Usually we're just want to make sure they're on the target.
We're trying to just make sure that they're not like in the different zip code with but get as close you can to that bullseye. And I think we're probably going to be good. And being okay with that is critical.
Mark: So you mentioned growth, and that brings us to our next question.
Balancing Growth and Financial Stability
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Mark: The reader says, which comes first? The money to hire key people, or do we hire key people to create the revenue needed.
First? The chicken or the egg? And this is a classic question from a scaling business. I'm at a million dollars.
I need to get to 2 million or two and a half million. I [00:29:00] can't do it alone. I need to hire some people. But at the $1 million mark, I can't really afford the people that I need, which comes first.
Scott: Yeah. I talk a lot about a three legged stool, and if any leg is shorter, then the stool falls over. So really this tide needs to rise together. You need lead flow, close ratio and manpower. And then your business will grow. As far as what we would call overhead, and I think what you're talking about is overhead positions.
How do we add overhead? The good thing about a, a repaint company, whether you're employee model or sub, even if I was coaching you in commercial I would say that you're typically going to have pretty good cash flow. You produce a job, you get paid. And so initially we would try to make sure that you're in a position to get paid pretty quickly. You can cashflow growth pretty easily, as long as you're profitable. So the question really is, are you profitable? As long as you're profitable, you should be fine because you're going to cashflow your growth. [00:30:00] Now, on the short term, you'd need some money. Now we would suggest that you're going to add overhead with retained earnings through cash, or if you had to get a loan. I don't think I would really say to go get a loan to grow, but you need some cash to, get to the point where this position is self-supporting. It shouldn't take much. Let's just use a hypothetical. You're a million dollars and you want to hire a position, and I'm just going to make it simple for math.
You're going to hire a person at a hundred grand, a salesperson, let's just say salesperson. And you're at 50% gross profit. Well, do you need to do 2 million? Well, no, you really actually just need to do 200,000. That will pay for that position. Now,
that's not our end game.
That's not what we're saying is good policy. But we're saying you don't need to get 2 million to hire the person at a hundred grand. You need to get to 200 grand. And then you stayed the same, you didn't put any more money in your pocket,
but you probably had an easier life. Right? You had a salesperson now.
So the idea is, that you [00:31:00] would have enough cash and you're going to take a little bit less money personally in your personal ROI, from owning your company in order to climb that next section. And so it's going to take you a little bit of time to recover, but I don't think it's going to be a year.
It's going to be like a half a year maybe, at best, to recover that investment and then your personal income will bump up again. So taking the money out of your pocket one way or the other, whether it's, you know, it's your cash, it's your bank account and you're going to self-fund that, but your ROI should bump pretty quickly because you should be able to cash flow that through the extra work.
Mark: Yeah, it's a good explanation. And as you said, a lot of these positions, especially overhead positions, do quote unquote pay for themselves in new revenue generated, and I think that's the best way to think about it. It also, as you said it incorporates our personal take home. Pay what our business debt might look like.
There's a lot of factors when growing, which is yet another reason. I [00:32:00] think you should be talking to a coach before making big decisions.
Scott: Yeah, I'd be very careful about taking on debt for growth. Debt, maybe line of credit if you had big receivables for a long time. If you're in a commercial environment and you know, we have clients with four or $500,000 in receivables and they're comfortable with that and they feel like the money's coming, but they might need a line of credit to weather that cash flow.
But I think I would typically grow using my own money if you needed a line of credit. Just to weather some moments where, you know your cash was down to lower levels, I'm okay with that, but do not borrow money just to pay it for operating expenses. I think that's probably, in most cases, a bad idea.
Mark: Okay, let's finish with one more fairly big topic. I'm interested to hear your response. So here's the question.
Building a Self-Sustaining Team
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Mark: I don't want to be the center of my business anymore. How do I develop a team? So kind of going along with [00:33:00] key people and overhead positions. A) what does that team look like to you? What are the essential people that would have to be in place for you to step out of the center of your business?
Scott: Oh boy, that's a big question. So, let me answer the best I can. One thing that I am a proponent of, I call it a vertical org chart or a vertical, where people own task, not a horizontal. So in other words, a lot of companies, lots of people do the same thing. Well, several people kind of do scheduling and several people kind of do selling, and several people do this, and we all project manage a bit.
And, that's just a very messy way to run a business. It's better to have real clear departments. Now, it doesn't mean that there's not one person doing two departments. Maybe this person does sales and marketing or you know, whatever. But getting clarity about who owns these different buckets. And, you know, we have buckets like, finance, you know, AP/AR or [00:34:00] accounting you might call it. There's marketing, there's sales, there's production. So there's these different things. And so getting really clear about who's doing what, that's going to be critical, because we have to count on them to do it.
So if I'm the salesperson sell, and my goal is to sell $2 million, I'm going to count on the production department that they have the headcount, whether it's subs or employees,
to get the work done, right? The worst thing that can happen is we're three or four months backlogged, and the customer says, well, I like you pretty well, but geez, I was hoping to get it done this year. You know, I mean, we've seen that back in the day where we just got, you know, let the capacity get away from us. So, I think that getting your buckets correct, and I don't think there's a. A bucket count that I would say is perfect, you know, whatever it is for your company, because we always say that there's no right size. You might want a lifestyle business and you might be able to suck a half a million dollars out of a $2 million company. And if you can [00:35:00] do that and that's what you want, I say, good for you. Let's get you there. And that's all we need to do. But if you want to exit and go to, you know, the Caribbean for eight months at a time, then we're going to have to make sure that there's people in place to do all the components to make sure you get the 2 million. So that's really the simple answer. And holding people accountable to those KPIs, you know, how do we know, when we're doing well, you know, these are numbers and counts and these types of things, and SOPs. So it's a big task, but getting people to own what they're supposed to be doing. Then eventually depending on how big you want to get, you know, I think you're going to need someone to behave like you.
So you could call that a general manager or a vice president. You know, Rick Holtz is a C4C coach. He also runs better than $6 million residential repaint. He's the CEO of his company and he has a general manager. He [00:36:00] has someone that runs his company underneath him. Of course, he's involved with all sorts of things, but at a certain size, you're really going to need to continue to ascend into a true leadership position and less about the management of the day-to-day, if at all. And I think that's one of the biggest issues is that if you're a control freak, if you're a micromanager, if you can't let people do their thing and not get all sideways about it, then you're going to struggle. So just being clear about the tasks, who owns them, and understanding and then I guess I will say this too we need a feedback loop.
We need reporting. So just to say, Hey Mark, I'm going to go tell you to do this. You know, I assumed you did it, but that's really not. that doesn't work. We need to come back and just have some reporting or some, you know, check that box. And we talked about I think in a, we did in a previous episode about these team meetings, company meetings. So in these meetings, just getting clarity about these things were done, that people are on top of what they're supposed to be doing. [00:37:00] Because we see all the time, when we terminate somebody that was important and what do we uncover? All the dead bodies, you know, he's like, holy cow, this person hasn't been doing anything for a long time. Well, shame on the owner for that, truthfully, because,
Mark: No feedback.
Scott: No feedback, no checks and balances, but really getting your buckets in place with the right people and then eventually you can ascend to the CEO suite and truly just spend your time managing and casting vision.
Mark: I appreciate that answer. It's a big subject as you have already mentioned. And I think it kind of sums up the whole idea of Beyond The Brush, right? We're all trying to create businesses to get away from the actual project itself, but what about even on the other side of the business, actually trying to develop a team that steps away from the day-to-day business.
It's a worthy goal. Not everybody has that goal. We recognize that people have different goals, different times, seasons of life. [00:38:00] But if that is you I absolutely implore you to talk to Scott, reach out to discuss that because it can be done and probably should be done for certain people that have that goal.
Scott: Yeah, I'm, not shy to say, if you'd like to have a conversation and just see, if coaching might be for you or find out a little bit more about us, I'd love to talk to you. You know, we're not high pressure and we're not for everybody. And quite frankly, we're relatively small boutique because we spend a lot of time with you. So, if this is something that resonates with you, just reach out. We're not going to sell you something you don't want or need. That's not who we are. But we'd love to talk to you and I promise, even on a discovery call, I'm going to add some value to you, even if, we don't talk again soon. But I'd love to chat with you because we, our heart is to serve people in a very humble, low ego way. And we, have the tools and, and the expertise and we have been through, I guarantee I've been through, what you're going through and what you will go [00:39:00] through. I could tell you stories that'll blow your mind. I've been through it. Some of it's fun, some of it's wasn't fun, but I've been there.
Mark: I can't think of anything in my life where it's easier to just do it completely alone. I've found most things are better with a qualified team of experienced people, and I'm really thankful to be walking through this with you guys.
Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Mark.
Mark: Thanks for the discussion, Scott. Appreciate all those answers. If you enjoyed this podcast stay tuned for more. We've got lots more exciting podcasts coming up and keep your questions coming for another fun episode like this one. Thanks, Scott.
Scott: All right. Bye bye.
Conclusion and Next Steps
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Thanks again for listening to this episode of Success Beyond the Brush. If today's conversation sparked any ideas about coaching, leadership, or building a business that doesn't rely entirely on you, we want to encourage you to take the next step. Visit consulting4contractors.com. That's consulting4contractors.com.[00:40:00]
Learn more about Scott Lollar and our team and schedule a free discovery call with Scott to talk through your goals, challenges, and maybe even what growth could look like in your business. Even if you decide coaching isn't the right fit for you, you're gonna walk away with valuable perspective from Scott.
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