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Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Garrett Jestice [00:00:00]:
There's two skills for any solopreneur that are relevant, and it's learning how to sell and learn how to write. If you can do those things really well, the more you practice them, the better you're going to be when you're ready to jump in and start your own business.
Nick Bennett [00:00:21]:
Hey, it's Nick, and welcome to 1000 Routes, the podcast where I explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear all about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Garrett Jestice [00:00:43]:
I'm Garrett Jestice. I'm a founder at Prelude Marketing. I'm a consultant for early stage B2B companies, specifically helping them hone in on what I call their marketing foundations, so help them identify who their audience is, what to say in messaging and positioning, and which channels to focus on.
Nick Bennett [00:01:01]:
So I wanted to have this conversation with you cause I feel like you are one of the few people who just like unsolicited, just like freely sharing this stuff. Like a lot of people try to hide it. And really what we've come to call win in public. And they say they're building in public, but really they're just winning in public. They're just sharing all the best parts about their business and their life and how great things are going. And you were talking about just what was your reality. So I guess where I want to start this one with you is what surprises you the most about becoming a solopreneur.
Garrett Jestice [00:01:33]:
I don't know if I have a really good answer. I'd say it's been a fun adventure. I've been in it just over a year and a half. I mean, we can talk more about how I got into it. I wasn't ever really looking. I just kind of fell into it and. But I've loved it. But it also comes with certain challenges.
Garrett Jestice [00:01:49]:
Right. And so I think one of the biggest things is figuring out how to continue to grow and scale, and I think that that's one of the things that I'm still trying to figure out for my business. Do you ever want to move beyond a solopreneur business? And if so, which model do you want to push on? And for someone like me, who's kind of come from the startup world, I'm just naturally wired for wanting things to continue to grow. And I like seeing that growth. Like a lot of people are just satisfied with status quo. And like, I make good money and I'm happy and that's great. And that works for a lot of people. I'm someone who's not wired that way where I want to just continue growing.
Garrett Jestice [00:02:28]:
And so I've proven to myself, like, okay, I think I can do this solopreneur consulting thing, but what's next? Because eventually you max out your time and no matter how you price and package stuff, you're still trading time for money to some extent, right? But the holy grail is being able to continue to scale revenue without scaling your time at the same rate. So how do you do that as a solopreneur? And so I'm still exploring that and the different avenues that I could take my business and grow it. And I'm honestly, it keeps me up at night a lot, right. And there's a lot of stuff that I'm still trying to figure out on how to improve current processes while thinking about the future. So anyways, there's a lot of stuff. I don't know how much of it is super surprising for me, but I would say the biggest thing is it's, it's not just a walk in the park easy either. There's just different challenges when you're an employee in a startup versus running your own thing. You just got to pick which challenges.
Garrett Jestice [00:03:21]:
You're always going to have challenges, you got to pick which ones you want right at this stage of your career.
Nick Bennett [00:03:25]:
So, yeah, that hits because there's plenty of baggage that comes with trying to get another job and working for other people and asking for time off. And there's plenty of challenges that come with where's my next client going to come from? Some people really, really thrive in that, like, business development environment, that sales environment where it's like hunting is not the problem, it might be the late stage service delivery. And some people are like, I thrive in services, but like, how am I supposed to fill my pipeline? That's really the place I suffer when it comes to, like, building this business. But what was the turning point for you? How did you end up going solo in the first place?
Garrett Jestice [00:04:06]:
Yeah, so I spent the last decade as a marketing leader in mostly early stage b, two b software companies. And when I finished my last full time gig as a CMO, I was starting to interview for similar types of roles. CMO VP of marketing at early stage B, two B SaaS companies. I was just not very excited about any of them. You know, I was talking to some companies and I just felt a little burnout. On the last decade of doing it, wasn't sure if I had enough in me to, like, go another round, because it's a slog to some extent. I mean, it's fun, too. Like, you learn a ton, you grow a ton.
Garrett Jestice [00:04:38]:
And I'm super grateful for the experience that I had, but just the stages of life that I'm at. I got four kids and just didn't know if I wanted to go another round. So I had a couple of friends who had gone the fractional route around the same time. A little bit before I did, was talking about it with my wife one night about what should I do? And she's the one who actually encouraged me. She pushed me. She's like, hey, I think this fractional kind of consulting thing could be a good fit for you. You should just give it a try, see how it goes. Don't worry about having to look for the full time gig.
Garrett Jestice [00:05:07]:
Just try it. And so again, after talking to her about it a little bit and thinking about it some more, we decided, all right, I'm going to give myself three months. I'm going to go all in for three months. If I can't get any clients or it's not working or I hate it, I'll just jump back into looking for another full time gig. I mean, it took a month of grinding. I was starting from scratch, not even thinking about doing this before I got my first client. Took about a month, but within three, I had replaced my previous monthly income. And of course, there have been ups and downs since then and lots of, you know, learning and growing.
Garrett Jestice [00:05:38]:
But by that point, I was like, hey, this could actually work. And so I've just continued to grow and experiment and evolve the last little over 18 months, and it's been a fun journey.
Nick Bennett [00:05:48]:
So how did you acquire those first few clients?
Garrett Jestice [00:05:51]:
Anything and everything I could do, right. So I think that's the key, is, like, when you're first starting out is like. I mean, you got to realize, like, you're signing up to be a salesperson, right. As well as whatever your discipline is or whatever service you're providing. Right. One of the things someone told me early on, I reached out to a handful of people in my network who are doing similar things. One thing someone said to me was, don't ever stop doing business development. You have to always, always be doing business development, even if your plate is full.
Garrett Jestice [00:06:21]:
I made that mistake a couple months later. I felt like, hey, I'm doing good. I have some clients stuff wrapped up, and then I had some low down months because I had paused business development before. But anyways, I think, like, had to just reach out to anyone and everyone I could. So hit up my network as much as I could. I went to lunches with people. I asked if I could buy them lunch and pick their brain on something. I got on upwork, and I found companies, and hopefully upwork doesn't listen to this, but I back channeled outside of upwork and found them on LinkedIn and anything and everything you got to do in those early stages, right? And then you get some momentum and you get a couple here and there.
Garrett Jestice [00:06:54]:
And, I mean, it takes some time, but I. And it's a grind, but I think that that's the key, is, like, you just have to fully commit to. I'm selling, and this is what I'm doing. I'm exploring every avenue I can.
Nick Bennett [00:07:04]:
So going to your network was really the big one. Like, I think a lot of people I've spoken with, there's kind of two camps now. It's, like, revealing itself to me, which is there's a lot of people who are afraid to ask for what they want, and there's a lot of people who are not. And going to your network and saying, whether you ask for, hey, do you have any work? Like, I'm coming out as a fractional and I'm offering these services. Do you have any need or do you know anyone leads to a lot of work for a lot of people. And I think that there's some level of pride or shame that people have in doing it or not being able to do it. How did you go to your network? So you took people to lunch, but how did you end up translating that into service contracts?
Garrett Jestice [00:07:43]:
I wish I had a really clear answer of do these things, and this is exactly what you get, but it's just messy. And I think that you just got to be okay with it being a little bit messy. You never want to burn any bridges or ruffle any feathers, especially with people in your network, which I get why people are a little bit cautious, especially if they don't come from a sales background. But I think that if you can clearly articulate, hey, this is what I'm doing, and these are the type of people I'm looking to speak with. Do you know anyone? People want to help when you give them the opportunity, you're specific, they are going to do everything they can to try to help you if you've built a good relationship with them before. And so that's a lot of what I did. And sometimes you have to personally, like, you feel like you're almost flirting with the line a little bit. Like, am I asking this person too much? Am I not? But I think on the flip side, one of the things I've tried to do in the last 18 months since then is to try to be an open book on this stuff and try to help anyone else in any way that I can.
Garrett Jestice [00:08:39]:
You know, I've had some other people reach out to me since I got started and say, hey, I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Can I pick your brain? I'm always open to have those types of conversations, and I think it's. It's just the karma piece that the more that you focus on just giving and helping and sharing what you've learned along the way, then it all comes back to you in some way or another. I've tried to also be pretty active on LinkedIn. I think that's where a lot of my network is. And I think what that does is it just helps me stay top of mind for people in my network. When I reached out six months, a year ago, they might not have had anyone specifically in mind, but if I keep sharing valuable content, they come across someone 812 months later and like, oh, hey, you should talk to Garrett, because they remembered me. It wasn't one, wasn't a one time thing.
Garrett Jestice [00:09:27]:
Twelve months ago. I've tried to continue to nurture those relationships over time. So I don't know if that answers your question. I mean, there's not an, I don't know if there's an easy way to do it, but that's how I've approached it.
Nick Bennett [00:09:36]:
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I think it's just the fact that you leveraged your network. And I think a lot of people, a lot of times, people get confused or mix up the idea of a network and an audience. So people will build a really big audience, and then they can't, they don't have very many people to go to in the way that you did, in the way that you described. I learned this one the hard way when I got started. I had a very small audience, but really even smaller network of people to go to and ask. And so it's like it was a slog trying to get over that initial hurdle, like, the first few clients trying to figure out, like, well, there's nowhere to go. And inbound takes a bit of time.
Nick Bennett [00:10:19]:
Like, that's like the compound marketing. That's a longer play to make inbound work. Especially when you have a small. And so being able to understand that there are two very different things and that your network of people you actually know. And then you did the thing, which, it's funny that you have to talk about this, but it always comes up, the whole, like, be human thing. Like, just take a genuine interest in, like, what other people are up to or talk to people about and ask people for stuff, for something or for help. Or when someone asks you, just, like, reciprocal relationships. Those are skills that people have to be taught.
Nick Bennett [00:10:56]:
Believe it or not, it's crazy, but being a human goes a really long way when you're trying to build a business.
Garrett Jestice [00:11:02]:
Yeah, I believe it. I'm in the same boat. I mean, I've had to learn it and practice it. I'm someone who's naturally more introverted than extroverted, and I've always kind of just been wired to. When I show up to work, I'm here to work. I'm not here to small talk or whatever. And so, like, that's always been a little bit of a struggle for me, being naturally a little more introverted. And so it gets harder.
Garrett Jestice [00:11:24]:
And sometimes when you're trying to build a network and real relationships, but you have to realize how important that is to actually build a relationship with someone and have them trust you, and vice versa. You invest time in those things because you see good results. But like you said, it's a skill, and you got to practice it, and you only get better at it as you practice it. It's not like you're born with it or not. Some people maybe are a little bit, but it's a skill that everyone has to practice, right?
Nick Bennett [00:11:50]:
Yeah. I think people lie to themselves that it's not business or it's not personal. Like, it's only business, and all business is personal. I don't care what anybody says. It is all personal. Like, we're all people selling to other people. The hard part is trying to figure out where the line is between. Or some people may mistake being vulnerable and, like, sharing their life on LinkedIn, sharing about what their kids are up to and all this stuff.
Nick Bennett [00:12:15]:
And it's like, there's one thing to be vulnerable and just, like, expose that part of your life to the world, but the other part of it is, like, you and I don't know each other very well. We're meeting each other for the first time right now, but we've chatted back and forth online a couple of times, and it's like, well, but you know, personal things about me, you know, I just had a kid. You know, I have a two year old. You told me you have four kids and you've shared some of those things. And I think it's like, that is probably the more realistic level of be a human, that it's like there's these two extremes. It's like, I don't want to share anything about my life. Well, no one wants. You don't need to share your life on social to build a business, but you do need to recognize that it's personal, that it is highly personal, especially in our line of work, where if you're dealing with startups and things like that, it's like they got a lot on the line.
Nick Bennett [00:13:06]:
Like, I deal with solo parents every day. It's like they've got a lot on the line. This is a lot of times their life's work. And there's, it takes a great bit of faith for them to invest in either of us to, like, help them do a thing.
Garrett Jestice [00:13:18]:
Yeah, absolutely. And they gotta, they gotta trust you, they gotta know you, and they gotta trust you before they're gonna follow or implement anything that you say or you recommend. So, especially when you're in a, you know, service provider consultant type role, building some of that foundational relationship is key. I always, I mean, one simple thing that I try to do is I just try to take at least two minutes at the beginning of every call or meeting to just do a little bit of that small talk. And again, it's something that I have to, like, remind myself of because I'm just not wired that way. But I come in and ask someone how their weekend was, or how's your kid doing? Or whatever it is, like that. And even those two minutes at the beginning of a meeting, over time, can build those relationships.
Nick Bennett [00:14:01]:
Yeah. And I've been trying to push, even on, push on those questions a little bit more because you meet with someone every week for a few months, and how is your weekend gets, like, old. So I'm, how am I gonna, how am I gonna do this? One of the things I've started to try to say to people is, like, what's been, like, on your mind the last week, or what have you been focused on for the last week? And you don't know what you're gonna get. I mean, they could come at you with something personal, they can come at you with something work related, but you kind of get to something that, it's a question that not very many people are asking them, and they're gonna tell you what is on their mind, what their priority is or what occupies them. I found people tend to, like, pause a second when you ask that question. They're like, oh, I need to create a coherent response for you. I can't give you a mindless response. Like, oh, it was good.
Garrett Jestice [00:14:44]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:14:45]:
Like, yeah, we went to the beach. So I found that to be an interesting way to start those conversations.
Garrett Jestice [00:14:52]:
Yeah, it's good. I'm gonna have to borrow it.
Nick Bennett [00:14:55]:
So you've been fractional for about a year and a half, a little over a year and a half. I'm always interested to hear how people are building their services. There's a lot of conflicting opinions out there about whether people should be doing the work. People should be guiding the work. Like, are you on the strategy side? Should you be on the deliverable side? So I'm curious, how are you building and how are you deciding? Like, how did you land on some of the offerings that you're doing and what are you doing for your clients?
Garrett Jestice [00:15:17]:
Yeah, let me give a little bit of context. So when I first started, I just said, hey, I'm a fractional cmo, and especially for early stage b, two b companies. And, you know, some of my first clients were as a fractional cmo. Someone shared this with me a while back, and I thought it was so funny. So I continue to share it. Someone said, no one wants to hire a fractional executive. They want to hire a full time executive. They just have a fractional budget.
Garrett Jestice [00:15:41]:
And so ive found that to be found that to be true. So some of the pros and cons of the fractional model that I learned early on is sometimes they do have that much work, they just have that much budget. And so to some extent, youre trying to cram a full time job into one day a week or whatever, youre working for them. One of the things I learned early on is, okay, I got to put some more bounds around what it is that I'm doing. It can't just be anything and everything related to marketing thrown at me, and I only have one day a week to do it. Otherwise I'm going to fall behind. To some extent. I started productizing, if you will, early my services, just saying, hey, I have this set process.
Garrett Jestice [00:16:21]:
This is what I do. I'm different than other fractional cmos, and this is what my process is of, have the systematic process that I go through that I think early stage startups, when they're just looking to grow and do some marketing, a lot of times they skip over what I call the foundational steps. They jump into hiring a marketing agency to do SEO or run ads for them, and then a lot of times that they're four months later they're really underwhelmed with the results and they think that that marketing agency was bad or maybe that channel doesn't work for them. And what I found, at least in my experience as a marketing leader, is you got to start with the foundations, because if you don't have the foundations, marketing, execution, it's not going to work. And so the foundations really are understanding who is your audience really specifically and who are your best fit customers that you want to try to replicate. And what do they care about doing some research with them to understand how to really position a message you know you're offering? And then where do they search for the offerings like yours and prioritizing those channels. Once you have those foundations locked in, then you can go do execution and you're much more likely to succeed there. So I've started productizing that service and then I started experimenting more and more on like should I go broad, should I go thin, should I go try to niche down on even one aspect of this process? And so I'm still experimenting with a bunch of stuff there, but that's kind of been my approach to it and it's been fun.
Garrett Jestice [00:17:43]:
And I think the key thing is to then pause every once in a while and take a look at the what's working, what's resonating, what deals have you been able to sell? Who are your happiest customers? What parts of the process are they most happy with? So for me, one of the things that I've realized in the last four to six months is even though I come from a software background, it's been interesting that two thirds or more of the clients that I've worked with who've been super happy actually come from a professional services background. They're like small marketing agencies, things like that. That was surprising to me. Right. The thing that they love the most is core messaging and positioning and not just getting the right answers, but running kind of this workshop process that I do with them to help their teams get aligned behind what that messaging is. So I've tried to double down on those things a little bit more. I focused a lot more engagements recently on those types of customers and those types of services. So anyways, long winded answer, but I mean, that's kind of where I've been, and it's just a process of continual learning.
Nick Bennett [00:18:42]:
I think I'm a huge fan of the productized service 1000% and the packaged offer just for the simple fact that there are a lot of options out there on the business side for them to choose who they want to work with. The most impactful question I've been able to come up with as it relates to this, when you ask, when you're trying to vet should a business work with you, should they work with someone else? Is how do you want to grow? There's a lot of fractional cmos, there's a lot of independent marketing contractors, however they want to call themselves, if they see the world the way that you see it, then they need you. If they want to grow in this other way. And you're like, that's not really how I think it should be done. It makes it really easy for them to know whether or not they're a good fit and for people to opt in to want to work with you or us or for anybody. But it's really hard to do that stuff without the productization and that offer because then it's like, well, I'll do anything you want. And then there's like, well, there's a whole bunch of people who would do anything. How will I know who will do anything really well? And then you get into like this pricing battle and it's like a race to the bottom and it's a place nobody wants to be.
Nick Bennett [00:19:57]:
And then when you end up in this place with limiting where people have this limiting belief that if they productize they turning off opportunity and it's a downward spiral. But yeah, I completely agree with you. So what has been the most effective thing? So you said you've been testing a couple different like offers or different programs. What has been the most effective thing for you? What, what was able to gain traction the fastest for you?
Garrett Jestice [00:20:20]:
So one thing I'll say just, I want to go back to like your last comment real quick. And I think that just productizing also helps with the sales process. Especially you don't come from a sales background because, you know, then I can start all of my calls and say, hey, this is my process. This is what I do. If it's not a fit for you, no worries. Like, there's no pressure here. I know a bunch of other types of marketers, freelancers, agencies, fractionals. And so if this is not the right flavor for you, I'm happy to make an introduction or give you something of value right in this conversation.
Garrett Jestice [00:20:51]:
And that's always been super helpful because it takes some of the pressure off, I think, of the situation. So going back to your original question though, of just like what has worked? I think there's a couple of thoughts that I have on this. I think what I have found in working with startups is, well, first off, I've had to give myself permission to not know the answers for my business since I'm a consultant who works with other startups in early stages. And one of the things I'm constantly pushing them to do is focus. Focus on the right audience, focus on the right messaging. But I think that being able to focus takes time. You have to have some level of sales, you have to have experience working with different types of customers a lot of times to know who you should focus on, who are the best fit ones, to know which offerings resonate the most. And sometimes that takes time, especially when you're a service provider, a solopreneur who's only working with a handful of clients per year, potentially as like a general rule of thumb, I think it often takes a potentially a few hundred thousand dollars or 20 to 50 paying customers to really be able to spot patterns of segments of the market you want to go after with the right offering.
Garrett Jestice [00:22:02]:
So I've had to give myself permission to be okay with not having the answers for my business and just wait. And so I have tried to productize, but I'll occasionally do something a little bit out of scope just to feel out, hey, is there an avenue here or is there nothing? And then like I mentioned before, I've started noticing some patterns, right? So like more professional service companies are coming to me and really enjoying what I do. And so I've started to double down a little bit more on reaching out proactively and building relationships with those types of companies and really even thinking about how I position myself as doing it for that segment of the market. I've done a lot of stuff, but messaging and positioning and specifically doing a workshop to get their teams aligned on that has been something that as ive followed up and asked my previous clients what was most impactful, thats what they say. And so that has been a core piece of my offering that im trying to pitch going forward. So just a learning process, like I said before. But you continue to hone in as you sell and fulfill and you have happy customers. You find out whats working, you start to find patterns and you start to double down on some of that.
Garrett Jestice [00:23:08]:
And thats really the process of building a business. I still have the goal of I want to continue to focus even more my business on who I'm targeting and what the offering is, but it takes time to get the quote, unquote, data from selling and fulfilling to really know where to focus.
Nick Bennett [00:23:26]:
Yeah, data, be it quantitative or qualitative, time to impact or greatest impact, is something that I measure. It's like, how long does it take to get someone from a to b? And can I improve the curriculum or improve the product? Do it again. Improve it. Keep going to the point where it's airtight. I think sometimes people will start with, like, I want to create a course, and then it is not as impactful as if they went through this iteration process that you're talking about on the front end to get it to be as, like, legendary as possible, to then distill that and package it up as like a more passive form of income or revenue.
Garrett Jestice [00:24:08]:
Yeah. So I haven't created a course even though I'm like, almost two years in. Some people have pushed me to do it, but it's because I'm constantly tweaking and changing my process and the templates that I use. And it's just like, and if I would have created a course six months ago, I'd be out of date by now. Right. And so, I mean, that might happen forever. I don't know. Like, eventually I'll probably do something like that, but I'm continuing to refine my process.
Garrett Jestice [00:24:29]:
And that's one of the benefits of being a consultant or fractional is, you know, the last decade I worked deeply with two or three companies. The last 18 months I've worked deeply to some extent with 1520 companies. So the rate of learning is just so much faster. Right. You can test stuff out. So that's one of the benefits of doing it.
Nick Bennett [00:24:48]:
Yeah. And not only is it accelerate your ability to, like, pick up on trends, but oftentimes there's, when you're working with companies in similar industries, even if they're adjacent, it's like you can start to see, like, predict the future. Like, oh, this is happening to, like, one company. Company just id this sooner for whatever reason. Maybe they have more people, maybe they have more revenue, maybe they have more diverse product lineup, whatever. The thing is that, oh, they experience this thing sooner. And I would imagine that this is coming for the remainder of my clients, and you can help them circumvent that problem or short, at least short circuit it. Like, it's not going to be as impactful on their business because you're able to see some of those things.
Nick Bennett [00:25:30]:
So even on the front of just being a, being able to create value for your clients beyond just your ability to take them through a program. Right. So there's so many benefits to being able to do that. But you had mentioned professional services firms started to resonate, or this message started to resonate with them and they started coming. How did that happen? Because I know a lot of people who work specifically with professional service firms and a lot of people that work specifically with b two b tech companies. You're either straddling this or making this fade in. Your portfolio is happening from one to the other. How did you end up changing industries or getting access to that industry?
Garrett Jestice [00:26:11]:
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question because it wasn't anything that I was proactively trying to do. It's just something I noticed happening. So as I had conversations with people who were interested, again, a lot of them came through referrals from my network, but some of them came from other sources, just LinkedIn or inbound, that type of thing, I started noticing that, hey, I'm pitching different types of companies here. And what resonates the most, one of the attributes that started resonating more, is are these companies. A lot of times they're professional services, they're bootstrapped companies. They haven't raised money versus VC backed or venture backed companies. Oftentimes are like the tech companies, the SaaS companies. And one of the things I noticed, at least it's not always the case, but through a lot of these conversations, is these tech companies, these SaaS companies, they're just constantly trying to move faster and faster.
Garrett Jestice [00:27:10]:
And again, I lived in that world for a decade, and I totally get it. But sometimes you have to slow down a little bit to get your foundations right before you jump into execution. I think that that's a core piece of what I believe and what my service helps companies do. But I found fewer of those venture backed companies that want to move so fast willing to do that than the bootstrapped ones, who've maybe been around five or ten years at a couple million in revenue, but need some help and are okay taking a month or two to slow down and really make sure that they're all rolling in the right direction. Again, those are some at least hypotheses, but it wasn't anything I went about proactively looking for. It's just what came in, what's resonated, and then using what's resonated to help me continue to refine who my audience is, what my messaging is, what my offer is.
Nick Bennett [00:28:02]:
This is a great example of something that I have been preaching for a long time. Which is when you market the problem, it's less about saying the words like b. Two b tech companies have this specific problem. Like, you say those words as context, but it doesn't mean that other businesses don't suffer from that same problem. And what I'm hearing and what I've been telling people is like, it's largely irrelevant how many times you can say b two b tech or professional services. First, what's more important is your ability to frame a problem that is visceral and that is financially, that is urgent. They need to invest in solving it. Now, this is true in my own business, and what I'm hearing from you is when tech companies hear this, they go, we know it's a problem, and some are willing to invest in it, some not this idea or the problem of skipping the foundations.
Nick Bennett [00:28:58]:
Whereas professional services firms are like, no, that's the thing. That's the thing. And they raised their hand. This happened to me. People come and say, hey, I'm not this type of business, but I get the problem. Can you help me? I'm sure that's basically the boiled down version of that conversation. It's like, we're not a b two b tech company, but we get it. What, can you do something for us?
Garrett Jestice [00:29:21]:
Yep, absolutely. I think it's, you think about your audiences, kind of the bullseye, concentric rings, or concentric circles, right? And you want to speak to the problem at the very center of that circle and be as specific as you can. But that doesn't mean that people in the second or third outer rings who might have that same problem won't come to you. I think that's the counterintuitive thing about positioning and messaging that a lot of early stage companies forget, or they don't know, is they try to speak to the needs of everyone, and so they end up watering down their messaging instead of being very specific and still drawing in people that are in the periphery. Doesn't mean you can't serve them. Like if they have the same problem and your process will work for them, by all means, when they come to you, yes, serve them and close them as a customer. But the more you focus, the more you clearly articulate the problem is that you solve. Right.
Nick Bennett [00:30:18]:
This is 1000% because I've even talked to a lot of people who are so afraid of niching down because they're like, how am I going to find manufacturing companies? I don't want to just niche into manufacturing companies. Like, no niche on the problem. And you use this idea of, you use the vertical in the industry to filter the way that you describe the problem. The problem may show up for manufacturing companies in a way that is different than healthcare companies or b, two b tech companies or professional services firms, whatever the thing is. And I think that is, it's a powerful way to operate and to market and communicate what it is that you're doing. And I think you're living firsthand, just like when that's executed well, that you can start to draw in to create a new little market segment that gets it. So yeah, I'm all about it. Niche on the problem.
Garrett Jestice [00:31:13]:
So one thing I'll say too that I think is really interesting, that a lot of people don't see their messaging as a way to filter their audience. I think that that's a really key piece that you just said. So when you think about, I've had clients say, well, how do I know? Like how can I get a list of all of my potential customers who I could serve, right. And data is getting better. And in some industries and verticals, like, you can build a list of thousands that could potentially be a fit. But the truth is that the majority of the data that's still out there is based on firmographic data. It's industry, it's company size, it's maybe some of the technographic data, the technology they're using, and that's all good to start, but that's only the top tier of your filtering. Then you want to go one layer deeper and say, use your messaging as another filter.
Garrett Jestice [00:32:04]:
So when they see your message, it's going to filter out the people who aren't the right fit. Then you want to go one layer deeper and think about, you have an inbound form on your website where they're reaching out to talk to you. Like what other data are you collecting through that form or in that first discovery call with them? That's the way to really hone in on finding your ICP. Usually you can't find it all in the data from the beginning. You have to use your messaging and your sales process is part of that filtering too.
Nick Bennett [00:32:33]:
Yeah, it's like not enough people are willing to test their message in some of those ways. They want to use the message to say, like, unleash your potential. What does that mean? That's just business babble. And they don't use it as a way to frame their problem. Yeah, I could talk about this one all day. So you've been at it for a year and changed now a little over a year and a half. What is your motivation to do this work in the first place?
Garrett Jestice [00:33:00]:
I think one of the biggest things that I've learned is just the stage of life that I'm at. Again, like I said, I loved the last decade in early stage startups, and I'm super grateful for that experience, and I don't think I'd be as successful where I'm at without that. And so, as I've talked to some other people, like, I have a, I have two younger brothers. I've talked to them about career stuff and others, and, like, I often still encourage people. You know, some people can jump right into it out of college and kind of do their own thing. I don't think it would have worked for me. Like, I think I needed to go get that experience and learn what works, what doesn't, on kind of someone else's dime. Before, I kind of jumped into it.
Garrett Jestice [00:33:37]:
But I'm at this stage of life now where I want a little bit more flexibility. Again, like we talked about, I have four kids. I want to be able to coach some soccer and basketball teams that my kids are on, and that was always a little bit harder to do before, and now I have a little bit more flexibility in my schedule as a solopreneur to be able to do that. So I'm able to do that again. I don't know if this is my path forever. I'm still going to figure that out. You know, maybe someday I'll jump back into, you know, being an employee at a company. But for now, it's hard to beat the flexibility and the ability to focus on the things that I really love.
Garrett Jestice [00:34:12]:
Like, I've. I'm very much a marketing generalist and have been for a lot of my career. And it's. This has given me a chance to go deeper into the different parts of marketing that I just love the most. Right. So I have this kind of broad base, and now I have this rapid pace of learning the last 18 months, being able to focus on the types of problems that I really want to solve that I think are impactful and really help businesses.
Nick Bennett [00:34:36]:
Yeah, I feel you on, like, the, I don't know if this is the path forever front, but it is really hard to, like, unring that bell. Once you make your first dollar on the Internet, it rewires your brain.
Garrett Jestice [00:34:47]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Bennett [00:34:48]:
You're like, wait a minute, this is possible. Like, why would I ever work for someone else again? But then, I mean, there's plenty of other, and we've already alluded to this stuff. It's like there's plenty of baggage that comes with either option, but it's hard to, it's hard to unring it, unring that bell because you're like, I can literally go do anything. There's no more boundary between like earning a living and there's no more or less stability in being an employee somewhere versus doing this type of work now. Like, being an employee somewhere felt really stable until you get laid off.
Garrett Jestice [00:35:22]:
It's the biggest myth, I think, that people say, I mean, when I started my career, it was everyone still go work for a big company. The security that's there. I've been laid off twice in my career so far and I don't think that there's necessarily stability per se. And I think that you have to be able to be good at what you're doing and I think there's just as much stability in doing your own thing sometimes.
Nick Bennett [00:35:47]:
I've worked for Verizon, hundreds of thousands of employees. They laid off people all the time. Thankfully, those like the Verizon experience, the ultra small business, I wasn't part of those layoffs but the mid sized one, that 5000 person business layoff was why I'm a solopreneur today. And it was like the only one I was personally impacted by. But I mean, it mirrors a lot of your, the things that you're describing, which is like, well, I thought I was secure here and turns out I wasn't. Now the question is, do I go and try to do this again? And I don't know if you've looked at a job posting lately, but there's like two. When this was a year, I went out June of 23. So not too long after you did and it was like 2000.
Nick Bennett [00:36:40]:
People are applying for every job. I don't care if they're qualified or not, but like, or they're pumping up those numbers, but there's no way I'm competing and trying to convince somebody that I'm better than 2000 other people that the way that I want to do things is, is better. It's just not going to happen. And I try and do that over and over and over again. It's tough. It is tough. And I think, and once you build the skill of earning a dollar online like this, it really does change the way that you see the world. And I think there's, the other part is just like as a father, it means a lot to me to have my kids see, it's like, hey, this is something that's really possible.
Garrett Jestice [00:37:12]:
Yep.
Nick Bennett [00:37:12]:
Why wouldn't I do that?
Garrett Jestice [00:37:14]:
Totally agree. I shared this story on LinkedIn maybe a month or two ago, but, you know, my son wanted to earn some money. My eleven year old son wanted to earn some money. And so he came up with this idea and he went door to door selling some stuff in our neighborhood. And it was fun seeing his eyes open for the first time because, I mean, I didn't sell anything really, honestly, until I started my business, like, 18 months ago. And so to be an eleven year old kid and be able to go start selling stuff, when he got that, like, first deal, it was like his eyes open, like, oh, man, rush. Yeah, exactly.
Nick Bennett [00:37:46]:
I think I read this post. He was selling no soliciting signs.
Garrett Jestice [00:37:49]:
Going door to door.
Nick Bennett [00:37:50]:
Yeah, soliciting people. And he was like, wouldn't this be great if this was the last time someone ever solicited you? I was like, this is like, I think about this pitch all the time. Cause, like, I get solicitations at my door and I'm like, when is someone gonna solicit me? A no soliciting sign? This is. It was genius. But, yeah, I mean, it rewires your brain. It's the same time, it's like when you're a kid, the first time someone agrees to let you mow their lawn or shovel their driveway, and you're like, oh, I can just go and get the things that I want. The people are willing to pay money for stuff.
Garrett Jestice [00:38:17]:
Exactly.
Nick Bennett [00:38:18]:
As solopreneurship becomes more saturated, one of the things that I've learned, or I've heard a lot of, is that people who have been doing it for a while, like I'm talking even like three or four years, are saying, all of our friends are now solopreneurs doing something very similar to me. And I think businesses, especially tech companies, everybody's going after tech companies right now. All of a sudden, things got really hard. Like, I used to never really have an issue getting, like, filling the pipeline, finding clients. It just was kind of, it was, like, super simple. And then all of a sudden, the last eight months, 812 months, things started to really get weird and slow down. Like, it's frustrating. Like, the frustrating part of building this type of business and just what the reality of it is, like.
Nick Bennett [00:39:04]:
Cause I think there's a lot of people who are winning in public and make a lot more people. And, hey, look, I. More power to people. I encourage everyone to be to try entrepreneurship, but it definitely, like, the saturation is getting crazy. And I'm curious, have you noticed or felt any of that in your as you're trying to build what you're building?
Garrett Jestice [00:39:24]:
Yeah, I think so. I think the last six to eight months, I've definitely seen more competition than a year ago right when I first got started. And again, I'm, I'm still early on in this journey for me. But I'd say last year, last summer was kind of my first summer in it, and I had a little bit of a lull in the summer, and I wasn't sure, like, is there, is this just like seasonality in the business? Like, people are out of office, it's hard to make decisions. Is it? You know, I let up on some of my business development efforts. And so it was interesting coming to this summer that we just wrapped up, and I definitely saw some seasonality in the business, and that was one thing that I've kind of learned, like, similar to the previous year, there's definitely some seasonality, and I've talked to a lot of other consultants, freelancers, agencies who are in that same boat. But I also think that there's just more competition, too. And so you got to be on your game when it comes to knowing who you're going after, how you can help them, and, you know, what your offering is and all of that stuff that we've been talking about.
Garrett Jestice [00:40:23]:
And then the follow up on it, too, like, you got to be that much more diligent to be able to beat out a lot of the competition that's there. I don't think it's going to be something that happens forever. I mean, we'll see. But usually when something gets hard, then the people who are kind of questioning it drop out. So we'll see how things go in the next six to twelve months. There's still plenty of opportunity is what I found. Even though the competition is there, when you're good at something and you can add value. Plenty of opportunity in businesses who need help.
Garrett Jestice [00:40:55]:
So I think there's a silver lining there. Even though there's increased competition, I still think that there's opportunity for people who are interested in it and can provide real value.
Nick Bennett [00:41:03]:
I completely agree. And I think the more people that enter the market make it just more important to be able to know exactly or communicate exactly. Like, what do you do and how do you do it? That seems to be, like, the toughest part. And we were already talking about this idea where there's a lot of, like, fractional can mean anything. It's like, well, how do you want to, how do you help people grow? Like, do you have a system? Do you have a program, and the people who do are going to benefit from those things just simply because it's easier for people to buy from you. It doesn't take a lot of cognitive load to understand how hiring Garrett is going to work. Like, what's going to happen after we sign versus like a, I can do anything for you. And I think the same thing is true.
Nick Bennett [00:41:44]:
I mean, I can't. My background is in the marketing agency space, and I've seen this a thousand times across tons. And all these different thousands of agencies, they all kind of take the same approach. And the ones that end up bubbling up to the top take the exact same approach. Even see plenty of agency owners going solo, and they just kind of like, abandon their agency. There's like, it's not worth it. It's so much easier for me to just do this now as a. As a one person.
Nick Bennett [00:42:07]:
Like, the opportunity's there.
Garrett Jestice [00:42:09]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Bennett [00:42:11]:
So, looking back, ma'am, what's something you would have done differently?
Garrett Jestice [00:42:14]:
Couple things come to mind. I wish I would have invested even more time and energy into networking and building good, deep relationships with people before I jumped into this. I mean, I've always been okay at that and just wanting to connect and help people when I can. But the more you invest in those relationships beforehand, the more it benefits you when you're ready to go. Right. And so usually when you're ready to go and you want to start something, it's too late at that point. Like, you've already added those deposits or not to the relationship bank account before. And so I think that's one of the biggest things, is, like, start early and often.
Garrett Jestice [00:42:52]:
I think another thing is, I think there's two skills for any solopreneur that are relevant, and it's learning how to sell and learn how to write. And if you can do those things really well, the more you practice them, the better you're going to be when you're ready to jump in and start your own business. And so, again, I have done some of that, had some background, but I wish I would have spent more time honing those skills earlier on. And then I think the biggest thing is, again, I talked about this a little bit before, but I've put a lot of pressure on myself, especially recently, of, like, how do I continue to push and grow this and knowing that it's okay, like, giving yourself permission, that it. It's okay to not know the answer to some stuff, and you're going to have to figure it out over time, and it's okay to be patient and learn and see what happens and make some mistakes along the way. And that's okay.
Nick Bennett [00:43:46]:
Yeah. We've all convinced ourselves that like, every month needs to be up and to the right, like better than the last month and earning more than the previous month, and you're going to have a down month. Like, it just is what it is. That's just called running a business. And in those first few ones, you feel like you're doing something wrong. Like, how did this happen? And it's like, it is not the full picture. The more important thing is that you're putting irons in the fire today that are going to come out in six months. You know, the hardest part about getting started is not having any iron in the fire yet.
Nick Bennett [00:44:21]:
You know, you're like, oh, all this work today is going to pay off in three, six, nine months, maybe even a year. And it's hard to justify it or feel like it's the right things to be doing because, like, I need to get this going now. But when it starts paying off and you, and now it is six months later and people are coming back to you and those conversations are resurfacing, or that person that you met is making an introduction for you and you're like, all of those things start to come together and they start paying off. It makes being deeper into the game a lot easier. The longer you're in, it becomes just more self more sustainable. Just because of all of those reps that have been put in a while back.
Garrett Jestice [00:45:00]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's just about momentum, right? It's the, one of the hardest things to do is any early stage company starting from nothing, right? Because it's just like it's getting, pushing that rock and getting it moving. And once it starts rolling, it gains some of that momentum and it's easier to keep it going. But starting from nothing is hard. So that's why you just have to do anything and everything in the beginning stages. Once you get that momentum, you got to keep that momentum and sustain that, and you'll see those results continue to build on each other.
Nick Bennett [00:45:29]:
So to not get bogged down by client work and like, keep your, keep rolling. Business development. I got one last thing for you before we roll today. And that is the future of Prelude Marketing. Right? What do you want to build that you haven't built yet?
Garrett Jestice [00:45:44]:
It's a great question. Like I mentioned a little bit at the beginning of this and throughout, I'm still trying to figure out a lot of what the future is going to hold like I said, I have a pre productized process that I go through with companies to help them really hone in on, you know, their audience, their messaging, and the channels they should focus on. But I've also done some one off stuff that's related to that. Right. So, like, I have some clients where I do some case studies and kind of just the case study piece for them or customer testimonials. I have, you know, some good freelancers I've worked with, and so I've gone one step further than the messaging and helped work with these freelancers on building their actual websites. And so, you know, I've kind of explored some of these avenues to see if there's kind of a micro niche, like a single service that I should focus on that's a little bit more scalable. And so I'm not sure yet.
Garrett Jestice [00:46:31]:
I'm still kind of exploring some of those things and trying to find the right model that's scalable. What I do know is that I love working with early stage b, two b companies and helping them improve their foundations. Right. And that's kind of where my background is. That's where my passion is and that's what I feel like I'm good at. And that's where I feel like I've added the most value for the clients I've worked with so far. So as I continue to hone in on pushing for that next level of growth, I'm not exactly sure what that is yet, but I'm kind of experimenting, and I know it's going to be in that realm of that foundational work of helping companies better understand their customers, their messaging and positioning, what to say and where to say it across which channels. So I'll keep experimenting with, you know, the right products, services and models kind of in that space, but for now, we'll see.
Garrett Jestice [00:47:23]:
I'm excited about it, though.
Nick Bennett [00:47:25]:
Right on, man. I feel you there. It's like the hardest part about it is to know I was talking to somebody recently and they said, I want to write a book. He said, the hardest part about writing a book isn't writing the book, it's knowing when to stop putting things in the book.
Garrett Jestice [00:47:37]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:47:38]:
And it's like, I feel like there's like the same idea. It's like at some point it's like, when do I stop iterating on the program and create the course, or create like package it up more officially, or at least draw the line there and continue to iterate on it, but at least I can, I have like a demarcation point in what this is. So I totally feel that, and that's something that I'm still trying to figure out. Garrett, this has been a total blast, man. It's a pleasure to get to know you today and chat with you. And thanks for sharing your story, man. I know a lot more people feel seen on their own, on their own journey because of it.
Garrett Jestice [00:48:14]:
Well, appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Nick.
Nick Bennett [00:48:16]:
Right on, man. I'll talk to you soon. Hey, Nick again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes Newsletter, where I process the information, insights, and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes. What would be your last meal on earth?
Garrett Jestice [00:48:52]:
Some really, really good barbecue.
Nick Bennett [00:48:54]:
You like a canned the city style barbecue, Texas style. Like the vinegar sausage?
Garrett Jestice [00:49:00]:
I like it all, but probably more Texas.
Nick Bennett [00:49:02]:
I write that like molasses. Is that like the molasses style?
Garrett Jestice [00:49:05]:
It's a mix. So, like big West Texas is like brisket. Just like classic salt and pepper and smoked brisket. Always love ribs. Pulled pork. Can't go wrong with any of that stuff.
Nick Bennett [00:49:19]:
I'm with you on the pulled pork and the ribs, but I'm the go to's burnt ends. Do they do that in Texas style barbecue? I know Kansas City style barbecue is like, yeah.
Garrett Jestice [00:49:28]:
So all that is, is just, you just take the ends of the brisket, right and chop it up.
Nick Bennett [00:49:32]:
But it's just like the fattiest, most delicious part of it. Like there's something about the burnt end that is like next level delicious.