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Welcome to episode 2 of The Playbook podcast powered by The Talisman Agency. I'm your host, John Sartore, and I wanna start by thanking everyone for the incredible feedback we received with our first episode. The support really has been overwhelming, and we're grateful for the amazing audience that we've already built. Looking ahead, we've lined up an exciting slate of guests for this new year. Now while Formula 1 will remain a key focus, we're also going to explore insights from across multiple sports industries, and we can't wait to share those conversations with you.
John Sertori:Now for this episode, we are going to stay on the topic of Formula 1 after what has been probably one of the most thrilling seasons in recent memory. Joining me once again is Darpan Randhawa, founder of Talisman. He's gonna dive into the business and commercial side of Formula 1. He Darce is gonna share his perspective on some of the most exciting deals that took place this year and how they're shaping the sports future. And, in fact, later on in the episode we thought we'd mix things up a bit and Darps, will turn the tables and ask me a few questions for a a seasoned reviewer, a look ahead as well at what we can expect for next year as well.
John Sertori:So let's get started. Darps, mate, good to see you once again. Last time I think we saw each other, it was, the final race of the 2024 season. We're both in Abu Dhabi. What a race it was, mate.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. Yeah. Hey, John, and, thank you everybody for, for tuning in again. And, yeah. Good to see you again.
Dharpan Randhawa:And Abu Dhabi was was lots of fun and, wow. I mean, what an incredible incredible effort by, by the McLaren, racing team.
John Sertori:Yeah. They did very well, didn't they? And, you know, it's taken 26 years for them to get a a constructors championship. The last one for them was in 1998 when the likes likes of Micka Hakkinen and David Coulthard were were still driving for the team. So, you know, a lot of effort that was put in by them, and and I don't think anybody really begrudges them anywhere in the paddock, for for getting a constructors championship under the belt, particularly considering where they'd, where they'd come from.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. It was good to see the the whole team jumping on a a plane straight after the race and heading to, to Bahrain, to, to to party, in in real papaya style. So I heard, there were quite a few sore heads, for the week to follow. So good good on them and very very happy for them.
John Sertori:Yep. Overall, you know, a great result for the sport. But, you know, we were saying in the introduction, about, the the commercial side, and I've got a few things that I'm curious about with regards to the sponsorship landscape in f 1. With regard to f 1 in 2024, what was the most significant new sponsorship deal, and and and, why do you think it stands out?
Dharpan Randhawa:The most significant new sponsorship deal or the most notable one for for for me was, between Visa and and Aston Martin. What what makes it stand out isn't just the scale of the deal. It's the strategic alignment. And this is something we bang on about quite a lot at. So Aston Martin boasts a rapidly growing fan base of over 80,000,000 fans or something like that.
Dharpan Randhawa:They're fueled by their resurgence as a competitive force. Jefferson Slack's doing a great job and and and and really galvanizing the heritage of the brand. And I think for for for Visa, the this partnership is a gateway to engage with a high growth, digitally savvy audience that spans key markets across Europe, Asia, and the Americas. So my opinion, I think it's a masterstroke for brand for a brand focused on driving innovation like like like Visa is, in the emerging payment technology sector. Well, for Aston, you know, they benefit from Visa's credibility and global reach.
Dharpan Randhawa:So this deal to me highlights the power of f one as a platform where 2 really iconic brands can drive mutual value, and accelerate growth. I I really like this one.
John Sertori:And with sponsorships becoming more sophisticated, really, is the best way to say it, How should brands approach structuring their deals with teams? I mean, what should they prioritize to ensure that their investment delivers, you know, real business impact beyond just just logo visibility?
Dharpan Randhawa:First thing they should do is come talk to us. Jokes aside, brands looking to sponsor F1 teams need to move beyond the sticker on the car. Everyone kind of says this. Everyone tries to do this. Every CMO is saying that's their mandate.
Dharpan Randhawa:But really to do this properly, there's 3 key pillars that they really need to be strategically and mentally aligned with. Number 1 is audience alignment, then it's activation creativity, and then it's the measure the thing. So let's look into all of those 3. So firstly, F1 Access offers access to one of the most engaged, affluent, and global audiences in sports. But brands need to know why they're there.
Dharpan Randhawa:Now, are we doing this because we wanna reach high net worth individuals? Are we doing this because we wanna credibility in emerging markets like, like Asia or the middle east, or are we doing it to engage attack savvy younger audience through digital platforms? So clarity on audience alignment is, is, is step 1. Secondly, creativity matters. Right?
Dharpan Randhawa:So sponsorship success isn't just about the size or, you know, it's it's it's about how well a brand integrates into the narrative of the sport. So when we look at what Kraken did with Williams Racing, activating NFTs directly into the car livery and creating a fan driven moment, or what Visa's deal with Aston Martin was, which aligns luxury hospitality with their emerging tech vision. Brands need to think beyond visibility and create experiences that fans remember. And the last thing I I would say is none of this makes matters if you can't measure it. So, you know, when we do deals for our brand clients with f one teams, we demand data, not just eyeballs, but impact.
Dharpan Randhawa:That means looking at digital reach, fan sentiment, hospitality driven business outcomes, and even innovation partnerships with with with the teams themselves off track. The f one ecosystem is evolving fast, and brands that structure their deals with creativity and purpose will be the ones that truly win. And and we've invested in a lot of, technology and and IP that that that helps brands make some of these decisions without bias or or emotion. So so long winded, but I hope that answers the question.
John Sertori:Yeah. But yeah. No. It does. I mean, the other thing you know, something that has, really, come to the fore in the last few years is crypto and gaming sectors.
John Sertori:They've been making big waves in in f one sponsorship names that initially no one really had heard of before crypto's so new. But can you name a few brands from those areas that were prominent in 2024?
Dharpan Randhawa:Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, there's been Web 3 brands have been very active in in in Formula 1. OKX have done a great job with McLaren. You got Bybit in there as well. But for for me, and and maybe I'm biased, but for me, you know, one the one that stands out the most, definitely was was Kraken's collaboration with Williams.
Dharpan Randhawa:I mean, this deal wasn't just about slapping a logo on a car. It was a a pure masterclass in activation. Kraken brought f 1 fans into a world of crypto in a way that felt really authentic, innovative, and accessible. They integrated NFTs, as I said earlier, directly into delivery, showcasing, you know, a community chosen digital asset on the Williams card during sort of selected races. This brought a community around the team, and fans felt like they belonged to the team.
Dharpan Randhawa:And I just thought it was genius. I mean, this move turned a traditional sponsorship into a dynamic storytelling opportunity. It engaged both hardcore F1 fans, and the crypto enthusiasts. They came together and they understood it. So what's remarkable is that Williams, a team steeped in heritage, used this partnership to reassert its relevance in the modern era while Kraken amplified its brand globally among f one, the massive fan base.
Dharpan Randhawa:So it's, again, it's proof that when brands and teams align strategically and authentically, they can create partnerships that resonate far beyond the track. And I think this one here is a is a is a is a real north star for for web 3 brands looking to enter f one.
John Sertori:Looking ahead to 2025, DAPPS, there's a massive new sponsorship deal on the horizon, isn't it? Can you tell us about it and why that's significant?
Dharpan Randhawa:Oh, yes. The one the deal that everyone has been talking about for, in and around the paddock, the forthcoming 10 year global partnership between LVMH and Formula 1, I mean, commencing in 25, this this monster partnership is poised to integrate several of LVMH's iconic, Maisons, as they call it, into the f one ecosystem. So notably, Louis Vuitton, Mohit Hennessy, and Tag Heuer are among the brands that they are set to participate in the deal. So while specific financial data remain confidential, industry estimates suggest that the deal could be valued at approximately $1,000,000,000 over the decade. So about a $100,000,000 a year annually.
Dharpan Randhawa:The significance? Well, my opinion, it it it f one gives LVMH access to a rapidly growing audience of high net worth individuals and aspirational fans across the globe, particularly in key emerging luxury markets like the Middle East and Asia. So meanwhile, f one strengthens its position as not just a sport, but a cultural phenomenon synonymous with luxury exclusivity and elite experiences. So both sides are winning on this one, and and this deal will likely bring the most refined activations we're we're we're gonna see yet. Think about curated VIP hospitality at the elite level.
Dharpan Randhawa:We're gonna see bespoke experiences at races. I believe the storytelling that's gonna come will be seamlessly blending luxury with high performance engineering. You're gonna see some collaborations, in my opinion. So it's not just a partnership. It's a statement that f one has become the ultimate global platform for luxury brands, and this is just one giant tech to prove that.
John Sertori:Now talking of the future and, new entities coming into f one, Cadillac, they're joining as an 11th team. When it comes to sponsorship opportunities, how do you see their coming into Formula 1 affecting sponsorship opportunities? I mean, are there American brands you think that, you know, might be particularly interested now in getting involved because such a a big name like Cadillac GM is is getting involved in f one?
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. Look. You know, this has been big news. I mean, American brands are already very actively involved, in in in Formula 1. We've we've seen a lot of the teams now over the last 2 years set up American offices, hiring commercial salespeople, in the US.
Dharpan Randhawa:Now this is this is already happening, but I think with Cadillac's entries, the 11th team in f 1, this is a game changer, but particularly for a larger basket of American brands who probably haven't thought about f 1 as intimately. It marks a powerful statement of US motorsport culture, aligning with f one's global stage. You know, we've already seen surging popularity of f one in America through events in Miami, Austin, and and and Las Vegas. So this creates, you know, a golden opportunity for American brands that have been waiting for the right platform to step in f one. Our offices in New York and and LA have been very, very busy having, conversations already.
Dharpan Randhawa:You know, we're gonna see companies in sectors like automotive, technology, financial services, and lifestyle even. You know? So so think of all the the of the GM partners, you know, brands like Apple, Nike, or even the big players like Ford in their EV innovation would all see Cadillac as a natural bridge to the sport. And and and, additionally, you know, I believe there's a massive potential for consumer brands like Pepsi, like Coca Cola, who are already in the sport with with McLaren, or Budweiser to engage a younger, more diverse audience via this distinctively American entry. So so I think Cadillac brings a sense of cultural familiarity, making F1 a more accessible and exciting proposition for US companies looking to, elevate their global presence.
John Sertori:Yeah. I mean, again, that's an exciting, an exciting development for f one. And as you say, those opportunities sponsorship wise, it's it's gonna be huge because America has just come on in leaps and bounds audience wise, hasn't it, with f one. Three big races now in the US. You know, you gotta mention the Netflix and how much of an impact that's had, and it's it's quite incredible.
John Sertori:Just finally, given all, you know, these sort of exciting developments in sponsorship, you know, the addition of Cadillac, how do you see the commercial landscape of f one evolving in the next 2, 3 years or so?
Dharpan Randhawa:Oh, that's a tough one. So pulling out my crystal ball here, I think the addition of Cadillac and the flurry of, you know, high profile sponsorships, well, they're all accelerating a shift in Formula 1's commercial landscape. We're seeing this day in and day out. But 3 trends that I think personally are gonna emerge, one is, as we mentioned, the increased, American influence. So with Cadillac's entry and braces in in Miami and Austin and Vegas all thriving, I think US brands will double down on f one.
Dharpan Randhawa:We're already starting to see that. We're having multiple conversations with brands who have never, 2 years ago, even thought about f one as an as an option for their marketing spend. So we are going to expect to see household names from tech, consumer goods, the entertainment sector all getting involved further mainstreaming the sport, in the US. Secondly, I believe luxury and lifestyle is gonna take center stage with the sport. So deals like the LVMH deal we've spoken about earlier, is becoming a platform for for high end brands to connect with ultra high net worth individuals and aspirational audiences globally.
Dharpan Randhawa:Hospitality is gonna get way better, more creative, and and I think premium experiences, which is what people want to buy these days, will be will will will be front and center. So that's a second trend. And, the third trend and and one that we spend a lot of time in is innovation driven partnerships. So what does that mean? So sustainability, EV technology, Web 3, all of these industries evolve, I believe F1 will attract brands at the cutting edge of their industries.
Dharpan Randhawa:Partnerships like the Kraken Williams deal will go beyond logos. Shop shelf, and digital fan engagement like we've never seen before. Those are the the the the three trends that I believe will embed themselves into the sports DNA over the next 3
John Sertori:years. So 2024 season, it's a wrap and what a season it was as we were saying at the, top of the podcast. It sort of hasn't been a season or there hasn't been a season like that for for quite a while, Dubs. You know, you and I were at the final race in Abu Dhabi. It was an incredible build up to that, and and and it could have been it couldn't have been a a better finish, really, to the season, could it?
Dharpan Randhawa:No. It couldn't. And, Abu Dhabi is always a fun race as well because a lot of the drivers who don't have anything to gain or nothing to lose, are they gonna get in the way, purposefully to those who have something to lose? So there's all those mind games that are coming up and, you know, it's it's, you know, it's interesting, isn't it, to to see what happened. But is this is this where I get to ask you some questions, Johnny?
John Sertori:Yeah. Here, mate. Shoot. Absolutely.
Dharpan Randhawa:Good. I get to put you in the hot seat. So, okay. Look. What on topic.
Dharpan Randhawa:So McLaren won the constructors for the first time in 26 years, so 1998. What do you put it down to? Is it is it was it just one thing?
John Sertori:I I don't think it is. It's I mean, their improvement in that car, from Miami onwards is what changed their season, for sure. They made a big upgrade and a big step when they got to Miami, and that was proven by the fact that, Lando won that race. And and, you know, if you like, won it fair and square, and it went on to win, you know, another handful of races as well in the hands of Lando and also Oscar. And and from a team perspective, they will always say it's a team effort, but it it sort of really was.
John Sertori:I mean, you know, led by Zac Brown, Andreas Stella, who's put together a a cracking team of of of people underneath him, and they're getting the best results. But, you know, you if you can have a great car, and if you don't have good drivers to drive it and to get it to the finishing line, then you don't have the success. And the thing that marks McLaren different from pretty much all the other teams, and particularly Red Bull who were defending their constructors' championship, was that they were getting both drivers in the points. You know, that and, you know, the you know, the car was obviously a much improved car from what they had at the beginning of the season where they didn't start off great in Bahrain and in Saudi. But once they got that upgrade, both drivers did very well through yeah.
John Sertori:Yeah. That's right. And and through most of the, you know, most of the quali sessions, they were performing. But particularly, when it came to races, they were getting both cars home in good points. And and above, most of the time, at least one Red Bull, if not both, both Ferraris and both Mercedes.
John Sertori:So, you know, overall, that success, it it does come down to a combined effort. It's having good solid drivers, which McLaren have now got, and arguably, you know, best driver pairing on the grid. Well, that's a tough call because when you've got Lewis Hamilton going across to Ferrari to join Charles Leclerc, that's a tough argument to, to take on. But, you know, you have to have both of those, both of those elements. A good car, a good team who can, you know, develop that car, which is what they did, and have 2 drivers bringing home the car in the points.
Dharpan Randhawa:Okay. Okay. And and and Oscar's definitely not showing any signs of being the number 2 driver.
John Sertori:No. Yeah. He he doesn't mind getting the elbows out. It's funny watching his his driving style because it's a lot different to Lando. Lando, I don't think, gets the elbows out as much as what Oscar does, and I think there's gonna be more of that to come from Oscar.
John Sertori:And, yeah, look, he's, he's an exciting driver. He he was about a tenth and a half, 2 tenths of a second off the pace in quali on average on across the season compared to Lando. But, look, he's 2 years into his career. Lando's what 5 or 6 years into his and has always been with McLaren. So, you know, they're they're a very good match and, yeah, he's a very, very exciting prospect.
John Sertori:As we know, he's won 2 races in his f one career, and he's only 2 years into it.
Dharpan Randhawa:Can they do it again in 2025? Yeah.
John Sertori:Yeah. I mean, you know, they can because they've got the class leading car at the moment. They but as the saying goes in f one, you can't stand still. You've got to keep developing. Otherwise, you go backwards.
John Sertori:So I think they can. You know, what something Andrea Stella said recently was that they've got their new wind tunnel at the MTC, and it's not that that's a better wind tunnel than what they were necessarily using at Toyota, which is in Cologne, which is where McLaren and a lot of teams do, tested components and aero. But the fact is that Andrea said that rather than sort of building a component and and testing it 2 days later in Cologne, it now takes them 2 hours to test it once it's been completed. And that sort of creates better yeah. Better, you know, and just better efficiency.
John Sertori:So they can build something, say, right, let's take that to the wind tunnel, you know, obviously within, the limits or the the limitations of of how much time they're allowed to have in the wind tunnel, but they get that information back really quickly. So that that absolutely makes a difference. So that is going to help them, but then again, the likes of Ferrari, they know where their weaknesses are, which is, you know, through fast high speed corners. They are great in a straight line. They're sort of point and squirt circuits.
John Sertori:The middle sector at Abu Dhabi was a classic example where they were so quick through that middle sector, but sectors 13 was just owned by McLaren because the fast, flowing parts of that that, that racetrack in sectors 12, the McLaren was able to stretch its legs so that even though when Ferrari was quicker in those that middle sector, they weren't close enough to really get close to overtake as we saw with Carlos Orlando. So but, you know, Ferrari, also Mercedes, they had a a big uptick. So they're I think, you know, you still got probably 1 of 4 teams likely, but I I think it's probably gonna go down to between McLaren and Ferrari. And yeah. It it but certainly, I think, you know, McLaren can do it again if they have a better start to their season than they did in 2024 because they started on the back front.
John Sertori:They didn't really turn things around till Miami. So if they start well, then they can not only get possibly the constructors' championship, but maybe the drivers too.
Dharpan Randhawa:Okay. So ladies and gentlemen, John Sartore does not wanna answer that question. That's what that's, basically told me. Okay. Fair enough.
Dharpan Randhawa:Fair enough. Let's move on. So the the future, I wanna talk about our boy, Sergio Perez. You know, he's he's never been far from the headlines this year. What do you think will happen there?
Dharpan Randhawa:I mean, what can Red Bull do? Because they they dropped a lot of points and money.
John Sertori:Well, that's it. And that's, probably the thing that Christian Horne is most concerned about is the fact that they dropped a lot of money and and the owners, of course. I don't know. You know, look, there's because they obviously have RB, which is their junior team. You've got Yuki Tsunoda who's been driving with them for a while.
John Sertori:He really wants to step up. He tested well in Abu Dhabi at the end of 2024. But the thing is, going up against Max Verstappen, it's a tough gig. You look at how Sergio has performed, and he's a guy who had
Dharpan Randhawa:a lot of who's got
John Sertori:a lot of experience. You look at drivers before him, Pierre Gasly, Alex Albon. A lot of those young drivers who came in to drive alongside Max Verstappen failed. So do you put Liam Lawson or Yuki Tsunoda in there? And you gotta look at Yuki's temperament as well.
John Sertori:Some of the radio outbursts he has, you know. It's so there's some options there, but are they better than a guy with experience? This is left field and I'm still gonna stand by. I don't I I wouldn't be surprised if we see someone like Valtteri Bottas end up there. Oh.
John Sertori:Because he's an experienced driver. He's a good number 2. He didn't get flustered by a 7 time world champion. I think they could do worse than that. It may not happen, but they would obviously always like to promote from within.
John Sertori:But I think that wouldn't be a bad option for them because you need someone who's mentally tough against Verstappen. And so far, every driver he's come up against, I mean, even Daniel Ricciardo and and and Danny Ric gave it a good shot and beat him a lot of times, but even Daniel Ricciardo, you know, didn't, didn't end up being Max Verstappen's teammate for too long. So someone who's mentally tough is is what what's needed. So I don't know what they're gonna do about Perez.
Dharpan Randhawa:It's yeah. Watch this space. Maybe a mullet might beat Max in what he says. So we'll see. That's that's interesting.
Dharpan Randhawa:And, you know, staying on Red Bull for a second, and and I guess this is a question that everyone's thinking about or has been definitely been conversations across the paddock, can Red Bull recover without Adrian Newey?
John Sertori:I think next year, they can still be in it because, you know, the the next year's car is going to be the 2025 car is going to be an evolution of the 2024 car. It's not revolution. It's not a brand new design. So next year, I think Red Bull can still be, you know, in the top 3, if not fighting for the championship. When it comes to 2026, that's a different matter because that's when you know, that's the reason why Newey's left, at this time to be able to have impact on Aston's car in 2026.
John Sertori:So when it comes to 2026, that's a different question. And there's a lot of good key people that are are leaving Red Bull. Jonathan Wheatley's gone off to be, team principal at Sauber or it's going to be Audi. Rob Marshall left a while ago, and he went across to, to McLaren, of course. Adrian Newey's gone, you know.
John Sertori:So they they they've lost some some big names there. So I think impact wise for next year, it's probably going to make them weaker as we saw through most of the second part of this year, but I think the biggest impact for Adrian Newey leaving Red Bull will be 2026, but that's to Aston Martin's advantage because they are gonna have a guy who is the most successful designer in f one, the genius, and he's going to be in British racing green.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yep. Yeah. I'm really excited for for our friends in, in Aston. I think they've got a bright future ahead of them, man. Can Ferrari go one better with Sir Lewis?
John Sertori:Yeah. And I I think they can. You know, they were second this year. McLaren just outlasted them, but Ferrari were there or thereabouts for most of the season. They were 2nd and and, you know, Red Bull's biggest challenger for for quite a while.
John Sertori:So, you know, for most of the season, then they got overtaken by by McLaren. And, yeah. But I I I think they can, and and Lewis is not going to be a, not to be not not gonna be a detriment to that team for sure. I think Lewis has still got, you know, a a couple of good seasons in him. Surely, you know, ticking that Ferrari box that is every f one driver's dream is is a part of that decision.
John Sertori:But has he once again been the driver who's may who's made the best decision, like, timing of his decision? You know, he went to Mercedes at the right time. Has he now done the same with Ferrari? They're on the way up, and they're they're or thereabouts. But, yeah, I I think Ferrari can.
John Sertori:And again, it's not and this is the great thing about f one. This year sorry. You know, for 2024 and 2025 is that it could be one of 3, possibly 4 teams. Isn't it great to have that variation?
Dharpan Randhawa:We've not had that for a while, and that's I guess that's what made the 2024 season one of the best seasons, in the last decade.
John Sertori:Yeah.
Dharpan Randhawa:Because it was just great television, great viewing, great drama as well. Yeah. Great rivalries. Yeah. And great and great for the brands in terms of storytelling, you know, from a commercial perspective as well.
Dharpan Randhawa:Okay. So conscious of time, John, before we wrap up, what are your last question, what are your sort of highlights? 1 or 2 that just really you're gonna when you close your eyes in the future, remember 2024 buying?
John Sertori:First one I will say it was Max Verstappen's Brazilian Grand Prix drive. That was when I'm all that yeah. That will be remembered for years. That is going to go down as a classic f one moment. It was unbelievable in a car that was 3rd best, you know, absolutely incredible.
John Sertori:And and and it that that drive won in the championship. That almost broke the heart of Lewis, of Lando Norris and and McLaren, didn't it? Well, and was it a and it was it a race that they should have been if it would have been a dry race, should have been their race and and kept Lando in it, but it didn't. But a great drive from him. And the other one, I would have said sorry.
Dharpan Randhawa:That's why Max is the best.
John Sertori:And just quickly, the other one for me was watching Azerbaijan Grand Prix, Oscar Piastri getting past Charles Leclerc down into turn 1. Didn't lock the car up, you know, the brakes there were just it was a perfect move, move, and then he had to defend against Leclerc for, you know, the best part of 30, 40 laps or something like that. That to me was also something that I just remember from the 2024 season. It was just a great drive from Oscar. And it was just brilliant the way he was able to defend.
John Sertori:But that overtake, it was just perfect for a guy who's only 23 years old. So yeah. That would be my 2 standouts. What about yourself?
Dharpan Randhawa:Look. I mean, when I, yeah, when I think back at 2024, the thing that's gonna put a smile on my face is my old mates at McLaren winning the constructors championship. I mean, you know, I I was there, for for for a few years, and a lot of the people that are there today, I've worked with firsthand. And then we were all there when Honda engines were blowing up back in the day. And, you know, as they say, it's darkest before dawn, and and and dawn has come, on this great racing team.
Dharpan Randhawa:And, it was so good to see them all so happy and and, you know, a thousand people, in Woking who put in so much time and effort, and and and really, you know, it was it was fantastic. So I I will think fondly on, on this moment, when I think of 2024 and, and the season we've just had.
John Sertori:And that's a wrap of episode 2 of The Playbook Podcast powered by Talisman Agency closing out our f one series for 2024. Join us in 2025 as we explore other sports as well and uncover what's heating up across the global sports landscape. We're lining up some incredible guests, entrepreneurs, athletes, and change makers who are driving impact across sports and entertainment. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please do subscribe, so you don't miss an episode and do share it with your network as well. I'm John Satori and I look forward to your company on the next episode of The Playbook Podcast powered by Talisman.