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C3 Leadership Podcast with Ed Young — Where creativity, church, and culture collide. Join Ed Young and guests for ideas and stories that will help you lead stronger and think sharper.
Charlie Kirk, who,
no question, is a modern
day martyr.
We don't wrap the Bible in the
American flag, but the Bible informs
us how to live.
People are dying, literally,
to hear the truth.
So speak the truth!
If you can't call a spade a spade
as a church leader,
then you're in a troublesome spot.
Have people leave your church
and have people unfollow
you.
Welcome to the C3 Leadership
Podcast. I'm Ed Young,
and this is my son in love,
Sam Kelly.
Sam's a part of our church,
does an amazing job in our
students.
He oversees that and
also he speaks a
lot. And in my opinion, he's one of
the best speakers anywhere.
And he has just great, great
insight, comes from an unbelievable
family.
His dad also is
a pastor.
Pastors, the great wave church.
Oh yeah.
Virginia beach, Virginia.
That's a beautiful place.
It is. I love it.
It's a great place.
I love it.
You know, I, I paint some
there's, there's a
thing behind you, Sam of,
and anyway, one of my favorite
paintings I have ever done.
This is totally random, which I am.
I painted someone fishing
on that pier,
the major pier beach.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.
This guy, the, the blue jean
shorts, which.
The jorts, they are coming back.
And he had a hoodie on
yeah.
I love that you remember that.
I do but today
we're talking about something that
is controversial because we're
talking about controversy we're
talk about things Sam hard things
that we as pastors
have to say
And unfortunately shouldn't be
controversial. It shouldn't, but
unfortunately in the world that we
live in, they are.
And Sam, how many times though have
you heard people say, well, are you
political or yeah.
I couldn't go to that church anymore
because they were... Political.
Yeah, it's a lot especially
as of late if you look at the
landscape of culture in the past
five or so years and what
I love about our church what I loved
about you is we don't wrap the
bible in the american flag.
That's right.
But the bible informs us
how to live.
Yes.
So we are going to speak to when
culture is saying things Against
the word of god we're going to
boldly stand on the word Of god and
what god's word says because it
informs us again on how we live
life in culture
And then too, Sam, when we talk
about the Bible, we preach the
Bible. That's our authority in
hopefully a loving, but
uncompromising fashion.
Sometimes you're going to deal with
topics that happen to be
political.
So it's the Bible
that we preach and if it
happens to be talked about in the
media.
And it will.
It will be so be it.
But don't be afraid
when people say that you're
always going to have some people to
say that about you
whenever you.
You stand, especially on a topic,
whether it's wokeism, which is
just a demonic system
of thought and belief.
Just, just, just look at it, trace
the words of it.
We've talked about that and
we've talked about things like
what's been going on in our nation
recently with
the murder in
Charlotte, Irina Zarutska in cold
blood before the world to see.
And then days later
you have the, the murder,
the assassination of Charlie Kirk,
who no question,
no question is a modern
day martyr.
No question.
Anybody who says otherwise they're,
they're completely and totally
wrong.
Yeah, he wasn't killed for his
political beliefs.
No, he wasn't.
He was killed because everything he
did, he pointed things back to
scripture.
And if you can't see that the sum
total of his life was based
off of that reality, you've got a
false picture of what Charlie Kirk
really was.
Yeah. What's so funny is people
have said, well, I don't agree with
everything Charlie Kirk said.
Well, I don't agree with everything
I say.
I mean, so much of his
stuff only, only,
uh, in our crazy social media, uh
obsessed world.
So many of his things that people
use against him are totally
taken out of
context.
And if you don't understand that,
and if you know, do your background.
Yeah, it's exactly right.
I saw, I don't know you did too, but
an interview with Charlie and
someone asked him, it was
something along the lines of, if all
of this went away, what
would you want to be remembered for?
And Charlie literally looked at the
guy and said, you mean if I died?
And then without hesitation, he
said, courage for my faith.
And if there's one thing as a 31
year old guy looking at Charlie
Kirk, that was the
definition of what he did.
He was courageous in
a dark world of bringing
the light of Christ into
every scenario, and he was
killed for having conversations
with people about
the truth of God.
And polite conversations.
Totally.
How he would engage the people.
It's maddening.
I mean, I mean and and I love it,
you know, prove me wrong and yeah
talk and but he always pointed
people back to
the gospel because as we have
been teaching through the book of
Romans the gospel is the
power of God and the church was
built and is built on
the blood of martyrs.
Yeah.
You go back from
the disciples to the others
from the early church fathers on or
on and on and there's some 100,000
martyrs a year.
We just don't hear about many
of them, but we
saw this
satanic evil action
against Charlie Kirk.
I'll tell you what, it does remind
me though of in the midst of
such great tragedy of what is taking
place in our nation.
I'm reminded a couple of weeks ago
you did a series on the story of
Joseph and Joseph, I believe it's
Genesis 50 where he says you met
this for evil, but God used it for
good. And you see even
off the heels of something so
devastating and so tragic that
there are people who are waking up
in their faith going, man, I've been
on cruise control.
On my relationship with Jesus.
We heard stories from campuses all
across the board of just
people recommitting their life to
Christ.
And I really believe that
one of the goods that God is going
to use in the midst of this is to
raise up young men and women who are
bold in their faith, who are
unashamed of the gospel, like
Paul said, and Romans 1.
So.
And Sam, this could really be
the catalyst, tipping point,
whatever you want to say of
revival, a great spiritual
awakening.
I pray that it is.
I mean, people were marching
in Europe in
support and in love
for what Charlie Kirk
did and who he was.
And then you look at the whole
landscape of the world, and the fact
that we live in a world
where there are people who are
cheering for a man who
was killed, and how
dark and twisted and
evil that is,
and that if we live a culture where
we can't call that for what it is,
demonic and evil, then we're in a
really, really tough and dark
place. And that's why, again, as
leaders within the church, it's why
they have so much respect for
you, for what you've done for
decades is, unapologetically
standing up on truth and
standing on the Word of God.
Well, thank you. And that's what
we're called to do.
It doesn't mean that we're harsh
with it or mean-spirited
about it. It does mean though,
that we are, I believe,
kind, not necessarily nice.
I think, I think a lot of pastors,
a lot of leaders, um, play the
nice game.
Gospel is not nice.
The gospel is bad news.
The news gets worse.
Then it becomes good news and great
news. But to say the gospel
is nice,
no. I wouldn't say that.
The gospel is offensive.
Yes, it is.
And it's good news, you're right,
but it starts off with bad news.
I'd love to hear from you just
thinking about the pastor that's
looking at the cultural landscape of
today and maybe thinking,
I know I need to say something,
but I'm fearful or don't
know if what I say is going to be
perfect. How do we merge the
reality of speaking the truth in
love and ultimately uncompromising
in truth?
Yeah, you have to speak the truth
and love.
So how does, if you were to
speak to the pastor who's wrestling
with that, like, man, I feel like I
needed some, say something.
I'm afraid people are going to leave
my church or this giver is
going to go and all the rest of it,
how do you, how have you even
navigated that over the years?
Well, I think Charlie
did a brilliant job of speaking the
truth in love. If you want to see a
great example.
I agree.
I think for
pastors, and I grew up in a pastor's
home, and I've been a part
of a church start like
this.
I've been a a part at
the time, it was the largest church
in America, the church
that dad pastored.
So I've been at this a
long time.
Pastors have a big fear,
Sam. Too much so,
we are fearful of
the social media monster, the hate
that can come from that.
We are fearful that
people will leave the church.
They will leave, no matter what you
do. They're gonna leave the Church.
And there's a true paranoia
that pastors have.
And it's funny, you can see it,
not that I studied it all the time,
on so many of the posts.
Many pastors will never really
call it out and say thus
saith the Lord.
But what can happen is if you
lead like that, and I'm not sure
you're really leading, you have a
gospel that is
decaffeinated.
Your message is turned into
TED Talks.
Yeah.
And you're telling the church about
how nice everything is and how to
be nicer.
And as you said too, Sam,
people are begging to hear the
truth.
If people go to churches like that
where pastors are living in fear
from
the young people to the old people,
I mean, how
And if you can't call a spade a
spate as a church leader,
then you're in a troublesome spot,
because again, young people are
going to be, and people in general,
not just young people, people are
gonna be discipled from something.
And if pastors aren't standing on
their stages and speaking of what
the word of God says, or aren't able
to say that it is absolutely
horrific that Charlie Kirk was
killed for his faith.
But here's what we do though,
Sam, here's what pastors do.
I just want to pray for their
family.
Great, you're praying,
but you got to do more than that.
This guy was a modern-day
martyr.
And bolder than most pastors.
Bolder than most pastors.
So a lot of pastors play
the weak card the fear
card and when they do the prayer
thing or they kind
of clothe it and and try
to bunch everything else around
it and then they say
as I said earlier, oh my gosh if
I say Charlie Kirk was
a great man of God.
People will say well,
I can't believe you said that
because he said this or he said that
or whatever I never
heard anything from Charlie,
maybe a few things I would go, yeah,
I wouldn't have said it that way.
But overall, but again,
I don't agree with everything I say,
and it
just breaks my heart
because pastors, if you would just
face the fear, step through it,
have people leave your
church, and have people unfollow
you, that's happened to
me for 35 years and you
have to face the fear.
And on the flip side
of that is I also think you'll
attract people to your church
because people are hungry for truth,
people are hungry for the Word of
God, and I think we've seen that
take place here, and yeah,
I totally agree with you.
Again, it's just, if you look at the
sum total of his life, it was
someone that was dedicated to the
Word of God. I think about
this poor, innocent
woman who was stabbed to death on
a bus, and the bystanders
that are sitting and watching her
bleed.
And I think about this as
a cultural moment in general,
are we going to be bystanders?
Are we just going to watch the
pain of the world and the evil of
the world and darkness of the enemy
continue to take ground, or
are we gonna stand up and be a
light?
Maybe you're listening
to this podcast,
and it's our prayer, Sam, that
people would not be bystanders like
the bystander who watched
that young girl being killed in
Charlotte, but we would be
active. And here's where I would
challenge the
by-standers or the
gen pop who's listening to us who
aren't pastors. Find a
church that boldly
stands on the Word of God.
That boldly stands on the
word of God.
If you're wondering, like, man, I
wonder what does our pastor
say, what
does he believe?
I mean, what should I do about
this situation?
People are dying, literally,
to hear the truth.
So speak the truth,
you're gonna lose people, you're
going to lose followers, but,
and I don't want to make any false
promises, We've seen incredible
growth because
of our stand, and we don't
stand because of it, but
we have.
You're going to deal with issues,
biblical issues, that
happen to be political, but you're
not political.
I don't wake up and go, oh, man, I
want to preach a political sermon
today. No, I wanna preach
a biblical sermon, and
if it happens to relate and
connect in a political
way, well, so be it.
Whether it's the issue of
Transgenderism, whether it's the
issue of abortion,
whether it is the issue same-sex
marriage, all those things,
we have to talk about
them. But again, I know, because I'm
a pastor, and pastors
are very insecure, I now I am.
So am I.
And you just don't
want to ruffle the feathers.
What if they leave the church?
Or they start saying terrible things
about me?
Yeah, they're going to, but
I would encourage you, don't
read any comments.
I never read any
comment. Never.
And I made that decision 35 years
ago when I would get the random,
you know, snail mail, a
letter, this negative letter from
somebody. I didn't read it then.
I don't reader now because that'll
mess you up.
You'll either go, oh, I'm so great.
Wow. Look what God's doing.
So true. You're at the bottom.
Yeah. And if you're a Christian, you
are in ministry.
You're in the battle, baby.
We're not vocational ministry.
We are all called.
But we need men and women who
are in the workplace,
in schools, in college campuses,
in high schools, in middle schools,
on their sports team, taking a
bold stand because the reality is
we're all going to face Jesus face
to face and give an account for
the gifts, talents, and
responsibilities and influence that
he's given us.
And my prayer is that we would hear
the words, well done, good and
faithful servant.
Amen.
It's just time for us, Sam, to
step up and
lead and
let the chips fall where they
may.
Yeah, and pray for more
people to take a stand and be bold
and help empower people
to take that stand and to be
uncompromising in their faith.
And I think we'll see God do
great things out of such
a tragedy and what's taking place in
our nation.
And you know what's interesting,
Sam, coming off this weekend,
you know, I'm bombarded by,
uh, people.
People, others, family members
who, um,
critique what I say.
I, I have more accountability than
anybody you've ever met.
So just trust me, it's unbelievable.
It's great though.
But so many people told me
what a lot of the
well-known pastors
did not say about
Charlie Kirk.
And many of them took the easy way
out. They just did the ubiquitous,
let's just pray for our nation,
which I appreciate that we need
prayer.
But I thought there
was a lot of soft serve ice cream
being served from
a lot of the pulpits in our land.
And people are sending me
things, not only
some people standing,
but also like
crickets.
And we live in a sad day,
Sam, when pastors will
not stand for
the truth and applaud.
Applaud the life of
someone who was all about the
gospel, Jesus Christ.
And Sam, Sam,
I saw Charlie say this, the gospel
in four words, Jesus died
for you.
The gospel in three words,
Jesus is Lord.
The gospel and two words, Jesus
saves.
The gospel, in one word,
grace.
Unreal.
So Charlie's going, here's the
microphone, but
it's a bloody microphone.
Hey, take it.
Pastors, take, it,
take and stand
and don't be ashamed of the gospel.
It's something for us to call evil,
evil. As I was reading today in
the book of Romans, you know,
it's just direct.
It's like, this is evil.
And we wanna explain it away with
psychological terms or use the
victim mentality or blame this
or blame that.
I'm great at blaming, But
the bottom line is...
I am a sinner in need of a savior,
and the gospel is completely outside
of me.
I can do nothing righteous,
but I can receive
by faith the righteousness
of Christ.
And people get the gospel messed up
too. They think the gospel,
is just forgiveness.
Nope.
There's something else.
What is it?
Receiving the righteousness
of Christ.
As I'm sitting in this chair,
I really, okay, if I do this.
I believe this chair is there.
I believe it'll hold me,
but my belief
turns to faith once
I rest in it.
And the Bible says I'm to rest in
righteousness, my righteousness.
I didn't design this chair.
Did I make this chair?
Oh, I didn't design righteousness.
I didn't make it.
I can rest in.
And then we talked
about two. People need to understand
this about the gospel.
There is
positional righteousness and
practical righteousness.
That's right. Positional
righteousness, that once I put
my faith in the finished work of
Jesus Christ, that I am
seen by God the Father
as Jesus Christ.
His resume is now my resume.
I am seated next to Jesus.
And it empowers me to
live out practical righteousness,
a life of obedience, a life
a pursuit of truth and
following God for the
rest of my life.
So it's like my man Deion on
said. Both.
It's both of them.
It is and if
we don't have the righteousness of
Christ, it's just like a spiritual
Etch-a-Sketch.
And that's good. I love Etch and I
love, obviously, the gift
of forgiveness,
but this righteousness thing is
unique. We don't preach about it
and teach about it.
And that's grace because you get the
exact opposite of what you deserve.
That's right, but the practical
righteousness is, once we receive
the righteousness, once – okay, the
gospel is outside of us, and once we
move the gospel from outside of,
inside of us by faith, then
we live the righteous l
ife, not perfectly. That's right, but you receive the power of God, so the gospel isn't about trying harder, it's about trusting more, and when you trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, it empowers you.
Tell me the story you used in
your sermon yesterday about that.
The king's decree?
Yes!
So there once was a
king in a far off land who was known
to be the most just king and the
most loving king simultaneously at
the same time. This king was loving
and he was just.
It came to the king's notice that
there was someone stealing from the
king' treasury. It was a substantial
amount, so the leaders came to king
and said, "'King, we must put out a
decree "'and punish this wrongdoing,
"'punish the sin that has taken
place.'" So he gave out a degree
that whoever was caught stealing
from the king's treasury.
Would receive a sentence of 40
lashings, which was actually a
death sentence.
So word goes all throughout the
kingdom.
To the king's dismay, he finds out
it was his own daughter that was
stealing from his treasury.
So the word is rippling throughout
the Kingdom.
Is the king going to be
just and punish the sin?
But if he does, his daughter dies
and he's not loving.
Is the King going to loving and
forgive the daughter and let her
walk free? But if He does, he's
just, the sin must be paid
for. So the execution day comes.
His daughter is brought to the
executioner's table, laid down,
the back of her shirt is ripped
open. The executioner gets ready to
give the first lashing.
The king slowly descends from
his throne, lays down his
royal robe, leans over his
daughter, looks up at the execution
and says, now hit her.
The executioners says, if I go to
hit her, I'm gonna hit you.
And the king looked back and said,
now, hit her and
he received the 40 lashings
and died.
And the daughter walked free.
And that's a beautiful picture of
the gospel.
Yes, it is.
That is what Jesus has done for us,
and we get to walk free
because of the price that Christ
paid for us.
Wow.
It's Joe Rogan.
Wow.
I pray that he becomes a believer.
Me too.
I really like him.
You know what Rogan has that no
one else has?
No one.
He does not talk about himself.
He lets the other person talk.
He's genuinely interested
in them. And that is
so, so rare.
Forget his MMA, forget
his kicks,
which are supposed to be legendary.
Forget his workout.
Forget his diet that consists
of
elk and I don't know, birdseed.
That's awesome,
Joe, but what Joe does,
that is incredible.
I love it.
Hey, Sam, how are you, really?
And teach me about that.
And Charlie Kirk was the same.
Charlie Kirk, he engaged
his audience and was like, okay,
let me hear your point of view.
Okay. Prove me wrong.
Oh, you've got a good point.
But have you thought about that is
what Joe Rogan has.
So I pray that Joe
becomes a believer, but I love this.
Wow.
And
you know what's interesting, Sam?
God, I mean, I think the Holy Spirit
revealed this to me earlier
this week, this story
that I'm gonna tell you.
I, you know, I
thank the lord that Fellowship
Church has been a bold church.
But sometimes, that's why I'm
talking to pastors, sometimes I feel
like, oh man,
I chickened out as opposed to
really saying what I
should say. And we've been studying
the book of Romans and
I was really convicted about
sharing my faith
with a guy that I've known for about
15 years.
And he's, you know, man's man.
He's, when I first met him, I'm
like, this guy's the most
unlikely person ever, ever,
to become a Christian.
So I shared many meals with
him, conversations, and
some of the conversations I believe
in go, ugh, Ed, you
just weren't bold.
Man, you mailed it in.
You were worried about your
followers or people leaving the
church. So I got convicted
just reading the book of Romans,
like, don't be
ashamed of the gospel.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel.
I'm obligated, you know, I'm eager
to share what Paul said in Romans
one.
So on Tuesday morning, 9:38
was the timestamp.
I called him.
This guy lives out of state and
through just a unique set of
circumstances.
He's going through...
Some tough situations,
and I asked him about Jesus,
and he began to tell me,
you know, Jesus is
good, I try
to live a good life, talk to God,
whatever. And it's like what Tim
Keller says, the gospel
is not good advice.
Nope, it's good news.
It's good, news.
And I said that
to him.
I didn't give Tim
Keller credit, but.
I said that to him and then I got
into the gospel and I was able to
share the
bad news and this is the
outline of the Bible.
That we're sinners, the Bible talks
about that. It begins with Genesis
chapter one through four.
And then I went into
the news gets worse.
Romans 6:23, for the
wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is eternal
life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
You got the bad news, the worst
news, the good
news and the great news packed
in that verse.
You sure do.
The bad news is
sin.
For all have sinned, everyone.
And I told my friend that.
And I said, not only that,
we deserve eternal separation
from God in a place called
hell.
And I've said, you know, God doesn't
hurl anyone to hell.
We make that choice.
So the wages of sin is death,
death. That's eternal
death.
But, I love the transitional phrase,
the free gift of God, that's
good news.
Is Jesus Christ our Lord,
and that's the great news, our Lord.
He's a gift, so a gift demands
a response.
And thankfully, I asked him, I said,
well, where are you in your
spiritual pilgrimage after, you
know, I shared that with him.
He goes, what
do I do next?
And I just said, hey, I can
help you and lead you in
a prayer.
So I did, and I'm not
a big crier.
Yeah, we both were crying
when he stepped
over the line.
That's just one illustration, but
that's kind of an illustration where
I don't mean to be the hero, but I
mean, that's an illustration
where I, um,
I was bold with him because this
guy, I'm telling you,
has it all,
jet set lifestyle,
everything he does turns to gold.
I mean so, so I had to kind of,
Oh, wow. Okay.
Yeah. But, but, but that's the same
kind of fuel. I believe pastors, we
need to have regularly.
You're right.
Go for the ask.
Yes, and it's exactly what
Paul is saying.
I mean, the first chapter he says,
I'm not ashamed of the gospel, and
he's speaking to Romans who
have everything.
They have the money, they have the
influence, they have the power, but
the one thing, the money the
influence and power can't get them,
salvation of the human souls.
I am unapologetic because
I have the
solution, the thing that you so
desperately need, and that is the
truth for us as we go out into
the world.
Have the answer.
That's right.
And we have to proclaim it with
courage, with boldness.
That is the only thing that
is the hope in this world.
And I think it'd be cool maybe to
conclude this podcast if you just
prayed over our nation.
I will.
Over leaders, over pastors,
over people, that there would be a
boldness and a courage that would
Father, give us your boldness and
your courage and your commitment and
your discernment.
But Father, also to speak boldly.
And we look back and think about
so many martyrs in this recent
martyrdom of Charlie Kirk.
God give us that kind of courage.
And I pray over every pastor,
his family, over every church
that we are offensive,
offensive, not defensive about
the gospel and about living
for you in Christ's name,
amen.