It's Wednesday, October 16th, and this is the 19 09, the state news's weekly podcast featuring our reporters talking about the news. I'm your host, Alex Walters. This week, you get to choose MSU's next leaders. Yes. That's true.
Alex:Look at the bottom of your ballot this November, and you'll see a slate of candidates for MSU's board of trustees. So on today's episode, we're gonna tell you everything you need to know about these board hopefuls, and that way you can make an informed choice. So here to help me do that are 2 very bright minds from here at the State News. It's our admin reporters, Theo Shearer and Owen McCarthy. Theo, Owen, thank you guys for coming on the show.
Alex:Hey.
Theo:Thanks, Alex.
Alex:Thanks for having us. It's always a pleasure for me and an honor for you guys, I'm sure. Yeah. So, yeah, you guys have spent the last week or so talking to these candidates for this MSU board of trustees. You've interviewed all of them.
Alex:You've written profiles about all of them. You guys know this race probably better than anybody. And you're gonna tell the listeners at home, you know, what they need to know so they can get into that ballot booth or mail home mail at home ballot popular
Owen:Yeah.
Alex:You know, and make a good choice. Yeah. But first of all, before we get into that, for people who might be understandably confused, why why do we get to pick these people? Why is everybody in Michigan voting on the university's board? Isn't that weird?
Alex:Theo, tell us
Owen:about it.
Theo:I mean, it's a little weird. I mean, MSU is one of 3 public universities in Michigan that has it like this. Typically, boards, are just elected by the governor.
Alex:Yeah.
Theo:But here, they're decided by a statewide race.
Alex:I mean, nationally, it's bizarre. Right? I mean, it's the vast majority of states were one of very few that lets voters decide this.
Theo:Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's MSU, Wayne State, and, U of M. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex:The land grants. That's part of the state constitution. Right? So it'd be tricky to undo. Although there has been talk of that in recent years.
Alex:Well, tell us, you know, since voters are entrusted with this odd but very important choice for the university, first of all, is this a a partisan race? Should people be thinking, I'm going down my ballot, Democrats, Republicans? Oh, and tell me. I mean, are people just voting down Democrats or Republicans, or is it weird?
Owen:I mean, you know, one absolutely could kinda take the the straight party line vote, but, you know, what I can tell you is that, even in talking, you know, to one candidate, they sort of said it's it's a little bit odd. It's the it's the hand we're dealt. It's the system we have where it's partisan. But but a lot of these issues we're dealing with sort of seem to transcend these these partisan divides here. You know, there there's some areas where you see sort of signaling because, you know, it is partisan in the sense that the parties in Michigan do pick these people.
Owen:Right? So you see sort of signaling in different areas. For example, there's one candidate on the democratic side who their campaign website, you know, talks about fair wages, some sort of, like, labor rights adjacent issues, which you would typically associate with people who are sort of fiscally liberal. And then on the conservative side, there's a candidate who who talks about, you know, keeping transgender women out of women's sports, which is again one of these very, you know, partisan kind of issues. So, yeah, it it to answer your question, in some ways it is.
Owen:In some ways it isn't partisan. I mean,
Alex:they have to get the nominations of the major parties. So to some extent, it seems like they're they have to signal, like, certain loyalties to those issues. But the actual issues they'll consider as board members, I think, are more complicated than, like, a straight left right thing.
Owen:Yeah. I agree.
Alex:So, yeah, well, that's why we have these great voter guides people can learn about where they stand on the various issues.
Owen:That's right.
Alex:So tell me let's start with you, Theo, because you interviewed the one semi familiar face, I guess, in this race. Tell me about Republican candidate Mike Balow.
Theo:Yeah. Mike Balow, you might find him familiar a little bit. He ran before in 2022, very narrowly lost, I think just by 8,000 votes or so. He's I think it's one of the closest races in in the state. Yeah.
Theo:He is a former marine, marine vet. He has gone to he says every every board meeting in the last 4 years, and I can attest to at least the last
Alex:there a lot.
Theo:Year and a half. I've seen him there. Two and
Alex:a half years I've seen him in every
Owen:Okay.
Theo:Yeah. So we've got yeah. And he is running, basically to promote transparency, kind of stabilize the board. He wants to be a stabilizing figure on the board of trustees and make kind of concerted, concerted effort to engage community members a little bit more, kind of reach out to them, break what he calls the green wall of silence where it's, you know, trustees feel like they can't really speak publicly or something about something about their about mistakes, or or issues.
Owen:So And you
Alex:have to talk about with Mike Balow. He kind of came into this MSU orbit with the whole swim and dive thing. His daughter was, you know, an athlete on the swim and dive team here at MSU. In 2020, when they cut the team, he was a part of a very vocal group of advocates trying to get the team back. I have not heard much from them recently.
Alex:I have heard a lot less from him about that recently. The swim and dive thing seems to kind of have not blown over, but Yeah. Simmered down as kind of hopes have been dashed for any sort of resolution.
Theo:It's simmered. It's still part of his his platform. Absolutely. Yeah.
Alex:But he seems to have stuck around and outlived the whole swim and dive advocacy thing and now is just a general, you know, very involved MSU figure. Absolutely. But, of course, that's kinda where he comes from is this swim and dive world.
Theo:Right. Right.
Owen:Yeah.
Alex:Oh, and also on the Republican ticket
Owen:Mhmm.
Alex:Julie Midday. Tell me about her. Another candidate.
Owen:Yeah. Julie Midday is, someone who's really coming at this race, I would say from the perspective of a parent. You know? She, and and that's very much so in line with kind of the role she played in her community of Novi ever since, you know, the early 2000 when, you know, her her kids were born. She told me about, you know, all the different committees and, boards she sat on in in Novi Community Schools.
Owen:And sort of that catapulted her to to a point where she, you know, she got on the planning commission there, and then she was actually appointed to the city council for a little bit. And so she was just a very sort of involved community figure in Novi, who was always kind of one of these these parent advocates. And so when her her son comes to to MSU, from 2019 to 2023, she was again paying attention to the education that her her son was getting. And and and she told me about feeling like there were all these decisions by MSU's administration that were sort of these blanket decisions where the exact impacts on a student's mental health wasn't really being considered and that the board was sort of just rubber stamping those things. And Swim and Dive is an example, actually.
Owen:You know, she she said she has children who are athletes, and and she can't imagine, if if, you know, they they went to school thinking they were gonna do this and it meant so much to them, and then all of a sudden, it was just sort of cut out of nowhere. So so that's kinda where she's coming at this race. Mhmm.
Alex:And what about, you know, I I she talks in her platform about her son. And then if you remember her her son, Blake Maday, actually was kind of an outspoken student when he was here. I remember he talked a lot about the issue with Sanjay Gupta's removal in in the Broad College. He was a Broad student and was very outspoken at board meetings. Tell me about the story she told you about why she decided to run with her son and the vaccine mandate and all of that.
Owen:Yeah. Absolutely. So, yes, the the Sanjay Gupta saga, her son was very vocal during that time period, and, you know, he he believed that his dean was was wrongfully terminated. And Julianna Day is on the same page. She told me Mhmm.
Owen:She thinks that's an example of, quote, cancel culture. And she, you know, she tells me if
Alex:someone does Gupta was canceled. It's her kind
Owen:of Yes. You know, she said it was a a procedural thing. He he had no malice. And, you know, I don't know how much we we kinda wanna get into the whole saga. But but the short version of it is that, Sanjay Gupta was terminated for not reporting sexual misconduct.
Owen:Sort of the caveat there of a subordinate of his, sort of the caveat is that he was under the impression that other people were going to be reporting that sexual misconduct.
Alex:Yeah. I mean, you know, if you ask Teresa Woodruff who, you know, asked him to resign or those who are supportive of her, I think they would say that, like she actually articulated this pretty clearly in a letter that she wrote to the board that, like, he's a dean. MSU has a very troubled history of sexual misconduct. You know, any sort of, like, shortfall there is unacceptable. Right.
Alex:And so he could not be a dean anymore. If you ask him about it, he'll say that it's part of a broad conspiracy to eliminate him as a presidential contender
Owen:Right.
Alex:That, you know, Woodruff, it was some sort of power play. Yeah. I think a lot of his supporters, including, I think, Blake Medei at certain board meetings would agree with that framing, that it was an unfair firing. But anyway, we don't have to get too into that. Yeah.
Owen:I mean, Julie Madey, I'll tell you, she didn't get into that aspect of it, you know, if if there was some ulterior motive there and it had to do with the presidential succession thing. But she did see as an example of, yeah, cancel culture where where someone, you know, didn't do something that was actually causing harm, and yet they're facing these, consequences because of this, you know, overly sensitive, you know, almost woke culture. Not that she said that, but, you know, cancel culture was the phrase there.
Alex:That's her framing, I guess. That's a cancel culture thing. But tell me about I'm asking about the thing with her son where she said this Mhmm. The Stanley era vaccine mandate that inspired her run. I thought that was an interesting anecdote.
Owen:Yeah. So, you know, she said and and I wanna preface this, and and she preface this as well when she told me, you know, she is not she says even though she has an r by her name, she's not anti vaxx. She's not anti mask even kind of or was not anti mask during the the COVID, pandemic. But she tells me that, you know, her son didn't really wanna get the vaccine, and and then a a mandatory vaccine comes out. And he's still on the fence, but he's like, well, I have to do it.
Owen:If I if I don't do it, especially with how involved I am on campus, that just would not be smart. Then he gets the vaccine. And then in her telling, you know, he was hospitalized because of his reaction to the vaccine. And that's when she you know, and and, again, with these blanket decisions, she saw this as, you know, this this decision that's being made without really considering how it might impact students. And for her, it was like a very tangible, almost severe thing where this decision by the administration sort of directly led to my my son ending up in the hospital even.
Owen:And so that's when she was like, I need to make sure I'm I'm a part of leadership here, and and I can lead with a a much more particular responsiveness to students. So
Alex:So is her, I guess, her her platform, her idea for how she if she was able to single handedly operate MSU differently, is it like an anti regulatory mindset or she wants just sort of less mandates, less I mean, we talk about blanket decisions. Is her solution to that just sort of, like, less rules, I guess?
Owen:Yeah. I mean, I I think it's a it's a broader trend with this, slate of candidates that that there's not a ton of really specific policy proposals. And so I can't, you know, I my sense in talking to her is is not that that is her idea, is to sort of deregulate MSU. Right? She did single out the vaccine thing.
Owen:She did single out the Gupta thing and and this swim and dive thing. But, you know, as far as her thinking that that the correct route to go, if she had her way, is to eliminate rules, I I don't think that that She
Alex:focused more on sort of her her woes with MSU than, you know, proposed solutions to those.
Owen:Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.
Alex:I see. Well, let's move over to the democratic side of the ticket. Theo, you talked to Thomas Stallworth. Tell me about him. What what has him running?
Theo:He is, well, he's a longtime Detroit lawmaker. He was state representative for a while, and he comes from a family of, similarly, you know, a lot of lawmakers. His mother was a famous, or very well known in Detroit, Alma Stallworth. And, so his his, his wife, his daughter, his brother, they're all, very involved in
Owen:the community or at least more. And, yeah, for him,
Theo:it's it's interesting. He was a former student back in
Owen:the seventies. He, took his undergraduate classes at
Theo:MSU, and, it is interesting. He was involved at the time in a lot of the demonstrations, protests, sit ins, that were happening at the time to kind of advocate for more resources for black students. And, yeah, he he recalled you know, he told me about being in this in the administration building, kind of describes him and and his his his colleagues as as loud, boisterous, combative. But he said that the administration actually really listened, and he he supported that. And it's sort of interesting to see him running for trustee because he would be kind of on the other side of of the table there.
Alex:Yeah.
Theo:And and I asked him about, you know, we're seeing a lot of campus activism today, on par with that of his own. And he told me that he would, you know, try and and and mimic, how he was treated. You listen to these students, and and appreciate their activism. He did say that Do
Alex:you frame himself like this as more open to that sort of activism as other candidates for the board, current board members?
Theo:He is active he's open to the activism part of it. I mean, he supports civil discourse protests. But personally, you know, with matters of divestment, he said he's not convinced that's what's going to change the situation in in Gaza.
Alex:He doesn't necessarily agree with some of the things that students are currently advocating for, but he agrees that they should advocate.
Theo:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And he he supports this sort of, you know, and we've seen a lot of disrupted board meetings recently Yeah. Presidential investors.
Theo:So he, you know, I mean, he, appreciates that.
Alex:Maybe sees a bit of himself.
Owen:Right.
Alex:He's activist.
Owen:Yeah. Yeah. Who
Theo:knows? I think another big thing he's running on is affordability. He's he wants to, find ways of making MSU more affordable, whether that be advocating for more money from the government, or, you know, looking inside MSU to see how we can kind of reduce liability as he as he called it.
Alex:Liability?
Theo:Liability. Yeah. I mean, he mentions the Mel Tucker situation as a good example. There is a lot of litigation that came out of that because, as he put it, you know, because of an employee's mistake. And he says, like, if if we if we establish better policies when, you know, handling employees, then it's less likely to end up in these sorts of situations that end up very, very costly for the university like Mel Tucker.
Theo:That was just his argument.
Alex:Tuition potentially could be brought down by lowering litigation expenses.
Theo:Basically, yes. Yeah. That is
Alex:Does he have, like, a figure as to, like, how litigation I mean, because litigation expenses seem like a pretty small part of the overall budget, especially with, like, the kind of insurance that MSU has. Did he, you know?
Theo:Yeah. It's it's a good question. I mean, no. I think it's it's more of a a broader thing about, reducing unnecessary costs. But yeah.
Theo:Yeah. I mean, I think another thing that he's, interested in about but on the other side
Alex:of that Yeah. It's, like, increased revenue, the state appropriation. Is that something that he specifically was saying
Owen:that he might I mean, he's a former lawmaker. I don't know if
Alex:he served on the appropriations committee. I mean, that's a long standing issue for MSU. That's something that he feels is important to him, increasing that appropriation?
Theo:He he thinks that, you know, MSU can do a better job of campaigning the state government for more money for them, but also just for public universities in general. I mean, he thinks it's not just an MSU issue, but, just an MSU or or a an issue across higher ed Yeah. Affordability.
Owen:Well, that's
Alex:something I've heard, you know, kind of both sides of it of there there's very much an argument that, like, the state appropriation should just be cut in a way that MSU gets more of it. Because currently, it shares kinda disproportionate with the amount of students educating. But that's interesting that instead, what if we just increase the share of appropriations going to higher education in general, lift everybody up?
Theo:Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. I don't think he's he's concerned specifically with MSU.
Theo:It's more just, yeah, very general Yeah. Thing.
Alex:Yeah. Well, and then, Owen, final of the major party candidates, tell me about Rebecca Bahar Cook.
Owen:Yeah. Sort of a a decent segue talking about money. Rebecca Bahar Cook has has worked in political fundraising. She's made a career out of it, decades. You know, she's currently banned based in Lansing, and she's the CEO of a firm called Capital Fundraising, Associates.
Owen:They work more with kind of, like nonprofit groups. Mhmm. But, yeah, sort of taking her expertise from raising money for political campaigns, and these are, you know, your Debbie Stab announced, you know, high profile people here in Michigan, kinda taking her expertise and applying it to these other sectors is is kind of the work she's involved in these days. And so she, you know, she also talked about affordability and and, you know, spoke to me about, you know, she sees herself as someone who's great at forming these partnerships, and that's been her work the whole time is figuring out how can we bring more money into this by by partnering with people. And so she talked about, you know, is MSU approaching all the foundations that it could, in order to sort of bring tuition costs down?
Owen:She she she mentioned, you know, looking for foundations that specialize in kind of, like, DEI efforts to to make sure that
Alex:Lowering tuition with some sort of infusion of, like, philanthropy money.
Owen:Exactly. Exactly. And and again, she she wasn't naming names here, but she was saying the those are the kind of things she's she's interested in in getting done on the board. And, you know, sort of an anecdote I have at the start of my story is when she was she was an Ingham County commissioner for about 11 years. And I asked her about, you know, what were you most proud of there?
Owen:And she told me about this time when, you know, kinda right right amid the the financial crisis of of 0 7, 0 8, she is sort of managing. She was delegated to mediate the discussions between the city of Lansing, and Ingham County, and this was all about the Potter Park Zoo. And the Potter Park Zoo was about to lose its accreditation, and it wasn't gonna be able to have these exotic animals anymore. Right? And the city doesn't have the money.
Owen:Right? And so they approach the county, but she tells me the city and county don't trust each other. And she's the one in charge of kind of restoring that trust. She ultimately, you know, negotiates this sort of transfer of of the zoo from the city to the county and then gets a ballot measure, to fund the zoo that eventually passes, and and then it was a great success. And so she said, you know, that sort of partnership building and negotiations is where she specializes, and she thinks it can lead to some more money coming into the to the university.
Alex:Yeah. What about other MSU issues? I mean, did you get a chance to schedule anything else?
Owen:Yeah. And so, you know, she spoke a lot about this kind of collaboration aspect. Right? And she said that that also is applies to her perspective about how she sees herself relative to her colleagues on the board. And so, you know, she said that when we think of the trustees Vassar and Dental being referred to the governor who which by the way, she knows the governor.
Owen:She governor Whitmer, she campaigned with her actually
Alex:It is
Owen:sort of an
Alex:endorsement kind of.
Owen:Yeah. Exactly. Last week.
Alex:It was campus with governor Whitmer, you know, talking to students.
Owen:Together on campus. And, yeah. But, you know, she spoke about feeling like kind of what trustees Vassar and Dental were accused of and and the reason that they're currently, you know, on Whitmer's desk right now. You know, she said that stuff wasn't mouth seasoned enough for them to be removed. And they were, you know, elected statewide, and it it wouldn't be appropriate for them to be removed.
Owen:So that that was one thing she kinda weighed in on there. Although she did say that something that was particularly salient for her was that these trustees, had been sort of encouraging students to to attack other people in MSU leadership sort of on the trustee's behalf, she said.
Alex:I mean, as the students they talked about framed it to you, they felt sort of
Owen:Right. And and Rebecca Behar Cook, said that that was, you know, not appropriate to her. Mhmm. And then, yeah, I I asked her about divestment. She said she's not open to that.
Owen:It was a pretty firm answer there. She thinks, you know, she said the university has already looked at it. They've decided it's not the route that she that they're going, and she's comfortable with that, so she's not gonna reopen that discussion. She also we men I mentioned earlier kind of like the signaling when it comes to, like, labor rights or wages, and that stuff is on her website. She said that, you know, she is supportive of of the tenure track faculty who are currently trying to get recognition from the administration, asked her a little bit about even the graduate employee, employees union that's kind of been trying to amend their contract to bring up these wages, get more sort of health care coverage, and she said she's absolutely to sort of continuing conversations there.
Owen:Yeah. So yeah.
Alex:It's interesting how, you know, if you look at the split with the candidates, you have these 2 democratic candidates that are very much kind of like Lansing political types. I mean, Stallworth is a former state rep. He's talking about lobbying for further, appropriations. Maharkook is a professional political fundraiser talking about trying to infuse philanthropy money into MSU. And on the republican side, you have another kind of synergy where they're both MSU parents that are very into, like, individual student centered issues
Owen:Yeah.
Alex:That they encountered as parents. I think until this conversation, I didn't realize that kind of alignment there. Absolutely. But tell me, you know, one kind of candidate I'm not hearing anything about is anybody who's been on the board before. There are no incumbents in this race deal.
Alex:Why No. Why are there no incumbents?
Theo:There are not. So, I mean, Dan Kelly, who's currently the board chair, he was running Mhmm. For for reelection because
Alex:For the Republican nomination.
Theo:Right? Exactly. But he did not get it. Instead, Midday and Lowe.
Alex:Why was he rejected in favor of Midday and Bay Lowe?
Theo:Yeah. I mean, they didn't there was never an official answer, but I've spoken to, some some delegates that were there at the convention, as well as other, you know, stakeholders. And and they say that it's it's more of an attempt to kind of clean slate on the board that I I spoke to a NASA survivor actually. Mhmm. And she told me that at the start of all of it when they were starting to sue MSU, that was one of their big demands was clean slate.
Theo:We wanna see fresh faces on the board. And finally, now they are kind of starting to see that. It's all kind of new people. And and I think the the reason that many people told me they weren't as supportive of Dan Kelly was that he has already been on the board. He was there during some NASA related things.
Theo:I mean, not during
Alex:Well, there's since 2016. There's been the Yeah. Yeah. Withholding the docs for years. There for sort of rejecting the outside assessment.
Theo:Absolutely. And it's kind of this reputation has spoiled every candidate that's that's already been there.
Alex:That has been is just toxic in itself. It absolutely. Yeah. Well, then Diane Byram, the other, I guess, would be incumbent just didn't run at all.
Theo:Exactly. Yes. So
Alex:there's 2 spots with it. Mhmm. Yeah. But that's interesting that just this board, which has been marked in so much controversy for so long, just being on it in itself just sort of absolves you of, you know, getting that nomination.
Owen:And Dan Kelly even has has indicated that, you know, I I had a chance to ask him why do you think you didn't get this nomination? And he said he said he thought it could be part of it. You know? He didn't say it was the entire reason, but just the fact that he was on the board during the Nassar saga despite the fact that in his telling, you know, he he stands by his track record. Mhmm.
Owen:You know, he he did support an outside investigation and ultimately the board didn't have the votes to get it done. You know, he set his record with regards to standing and supporting survivors. You know, he he stands by that, but but he did say that, you know, just being on the board during that really toxic tumultuous time, is is maybe the reason why I didn't get my party's nomination this time around.
Alex:It is interesting because if you look at the actual, like, nuances of each of these issues, Dan Kelly often falls on the right side of this stuff, at least as far as the survivor groups that are, you know, so influential in this race have viewed it. But I think just by being there at all, that's sort of just, I guess, enough to kill his candidacy.
Owen:Yeah. Yeah.
Alex:What about, you know, the more kinda modern MSU board issues, your Tucker, your Gupta, and then, of course, the, you know, request for removal of 2 members over there, repeated interference in the administration. You told me that Behar Cook, Owen, was not supportive of Whitmer removing those trustees. What about the other candidates? Did they have thoughts on the kind of drama on the board right now?
Theo:Yeah. I mean, I think, all all 4 major candidates all said that they really wouldn't support, the governor removing them. You know? I think Stallworth told me it's he didn't really see anything, you know, criminal or he described it as as egregious in the report. He he did I think similar to Bahar Cook, actually, he didn't like the part about, Vassar and and Deno manipulating students Yeah.
Theo:To try and yeah. But, in in general, he he thinks it's it's unnecessary that, these things can you know, you elected these people and they're in office is is kind of what he, the message that he was he was coming across. And Mike Balow is was, I think, even more, adamant about that. He disagrees with kind of, some of the findings in the report or or at least how the report was conducted that led to this whole thing. I mean, he told me that he thought it was interesting after, another trustee, Brianna Scott, released a letter which started this whole thing calling for Vassar's removal, that suddenly after this letter, all of these political leaders, you know, were calling for her resignation.
Theo:He felt like it was kind of, you know, planned in in some way or or kind of an effort to remove her, because of her Nassar, survivor advocacy. And yeah. So he he doesn't support it either. I mean, he thinks that
Alex:And he's been vocal about that. I mean, he's comfortable
Owen:with things.
Alex:He's talked about it. What about Julie Madet? Owen, did you talk to her about this?
Owen:Yeah. Julie Madet, is similarly not supportive of them being removed. And and she sort of sees all of this as a symptom of this this larger toxicity on the board, and she talked about, you know, it seems like everyone's always trying to backstep everyone. And she told me, you know, it's like always someone's just trying to find a way to get someone else. You know?
Owen:She she sees it as this, sort of toxic thing. And she said, you know, if if everyone could act like adults, it it never would have even gotten to that point where the governor had to be involved. But she also, you know, added that she really hasn't followed it that closely and said that there's a possibility that there's something in there, that she's missed that was egregious. And so, yeah, didn't get the impression that she's, you know, followed the the saga all that closely, but but generally doesn't believe that, it it should have ever gotten to to governor Whitmer.
Theo:Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, with with me, that's a similar theme with, I think, everybody except for maybe Mike Balow, is that they haven't totally followed this fully. I think Stallworth told me he hasn't read the the report that started all of this.
Alex:He didn't read the Miller Chevrolet report?
Theo:No. He didn't. I mean, he's he's read the the media reports about the report, but he, you know, he hasn't read the the thing.
Owen:I'll say I'll say,
Alex:Bahar Cook, seemed very
Owen:when I asked her, seemed prepared for the questions, seemed to have, you know, set thoughts. Again, the the most salient thing for her was sort of the, you know, the the manipulating students piece, but it it seemed that she had had been following.
Alex:Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Alright. Well, guys, thank you so much.
Alex:I mean, this is so much work that you guys have done talking to all these candidates and then trying to distill it into both your stories and this appearance today. I hope this is helpful for listening to the 9209 who are gonna cast their ballot to really make an informed decision on what can seem like an insignificant race, but here at MSU, you know, has some big effects. So, yeah, that's all for now, but we'll be back next week with fresh reporting from the great minds here at the state news. All the stories that we discussed, your profiles, the voter guide, people can find at statenews.com. Thank you to my guests, Theo and Ellen, for coming on, our amazing podcast coordinator, Taylor, and most of all, thank you for listening.
Alex:For the 19 09, I'm Alex Walters.