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You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
ep 4 full
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[00:00:00]
David: a coach to help people, but no one told you how to build the business behind it. Welcome to Coach As Entrepreneur, the show for coaches building real businesses with systems, strategy and heart. Build the system, serve your clients, [00:00:15] and support your family. Today's guest is Eileen Rogers.
A former CEO who built and sold a multimillion dollar marketing company before becoming an executive coach. She's one of only 500 people worldwide [00:00:30] trained by Brene Brown to facilitate, DARE to Lead, and now helps leaders transform from armored to daring leadership. Let's dive in. Eileen, thank you for joining us today.
Eileen: thank you, David. I enjoyed the opportunity [00:00:45] to reflect a little bit based on. our conversation
David: so you were originally, you know, you ran a marketing company for about 40 years, how did you get into coaching? Where was the, the transition? Where was like, when did you start understanding and [00:01:00] learning this thing about coaching?
Eileen: I've always had
David: I.
Eileen: coach and that's, that's been important in terms of my history because, uh, we had an opportunity in our company. We were, uh, someone offered to acquire us and that [00:01:15] was, that was a moment of, okay, what am I going to do if that happens? And so I went back to my coach and did a little bit of transition coaching.
And it was during that process that this idea arose. It was actually kind of funny because [00:01:30] I always refer people to coaching and I did at that point because I found such value in it as an entrepreneur. And I was trying to refer him someone and he just looked at me and he said, Eileen, are you going to [00:01:45] coach people? And it was a, you know, it was my lights off, went off moment. And I just, I absorbed that and smiled for a minute. And I said, well, If I were to consider that, what would be the first one or two [00:02:00] or three things that you would, uh, have me do? And, so we talked about that a little bit, and in my mind as a high achiever, I went through, Oh my gosh, have to get this certificate and I'd have to do this and all of these things [00:02:15] before I would become a coach. And, so, At the end of the session, like all good coaches, he challenged me and he said, I want you when you leave this office the next time, because I'm a bit, I was out in the community working, [00:02:30] building relationships. The next time someone says, what do you do? Tell them first that you're a coach and you run a marketing company and I want you to come back next time and tell me what their response was. And so [00:02:45] it was the best thing I could have done. Um, idea that I went out and I was waiting for people to say, Where did you go to coaching school? And how much experience do you have? And all these things, this idea that I wouldn't be a coach until then. [00:03:00] And so for me, it solidified this idea of setting intentions. Because literally, I was a coach from the moment I left his office. And an intention is a place to set, is something to set, but it's a place to live from and into. [00:03:15] And so from that moment on, I was a coach. I was a coach in training. I was a coach getting more practice. was a coach. And so I started my learning journey as a coach, not becoming a coach in that [00:03:30] sense.
David: You, you know, there's, I, I feel like, um, the really good leaders, um, obviously you were a CEO, you had your own company for 40 years, um, and a lot of really good leaders who are running their [00:03:45] companies, they often end up doing coaching and mentoring within their businesses as well. And were you, when you reflect on your time in your business, do you feel like you were also doing that as you were growing and building your company as [00:04:00] well?
Eileen: I do think that at some level I was doing that. I do feel as though there's a difference between being a problem solver and being a coach and that's where people
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: So I was a really great problem [00:04:15] solver. Um, and. You know, in order to be a really great coach, you you go over that apex, right?
It's not about you. It's not about your success. about how do I help other people find their own [00:04:30] solutions? You know what? I enjoy the
David: Yeah.
Eileen: coaching is the assumption that it assumes whoever I'm coaching is 100 percent whole. It's
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: people and it's not about fixing problems. For me, it's about helping disrupt [00:04:45] their thinking. That's my favorite definition of a coach, is I'm your thought disruptor and your, your thinking partner, right?
David: Mm-hmm. That's, that's so interesting because thi this whole world of [00:05:00] coaching, um, when we, whenever I talk to somebody about coaching, they're always like, what is that?
Eileen: -hmm.
David: And when I talk to coaches too, there's all these different variations and ideas about coaching [00:05:15] and even. Coaches who are in like executive or leadership coaching as well, when they think about it too, they also have a different perspective around that as well.
And I'd love to understand more so [00:05:30] your philosophy in thinking about coaching as you're talking about disrupting their, the leaders think thinking, right?
Eileen: well, and part of my journey, probably the first five years that I began
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: trained and [00:05:45] practice and learn about coaching, I had a specific goal because I was still in my company. My partner was taking over, but I was still doing that. So I had a chance to learn while I was there. I didn't just jump off, jump off the [00:06:00] cliff.
So I wanted to really understand the difference between. Coaching, advising, consulting and facilitating.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: was probably the best thing I ever did.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: me, they're all very [00:06:15] different. um, and mentoring. People often throw that in there. And so, really understanding the difference. Which ones did I enjoy?
Which ones could I have an impact at? and, Where was that really [00:06:30] helped frame the foundation for, for understanding how I wanted to build my practice and who I wanted to do it with?
David: Mm. And so where did that for you? Where did that fall? How much of the [00:06:45] facilitation, mentoring, and coaching? Um, well, one is how do you kind of differentiate those
Eileen: Yeah.
David: and where did that kind of fall for you?
Eileen: So for me, you know, the biggest thing most people thought when I left my company that I would go do consulting. [00:07:00] Um, and consulting is not coaching, right? And part of, for me, my challenge was as an entrepreneur, I didn't enjoy being told what to do. So I really didn't appreciate this idea because I thought consultants are there to tell [00:07:15] you what to do, right?
So that wasn't really a good fit for me. I did try a little bit of that when I sold my company, um, and it's just not a good fit. And so advising my coach had an advisory practice [00:07:30] and that's where I found my niche to be this idea that if I'm working with leaders and or CEOs that one part of it I have my coaching hat on and then the visual of now I'm going to be an advisor because there's some [00:07:45] value to the experience that I bring in that process. though, it's more is this something you may have considered this happen, whatever. So it's not I'm telling you what to do. So the comfort [00:08:00] sweet spot for me is around advising and coaching and being very present in the moment to which hat I have on. Um, I do some facilitating. I did leading groups and things throughout my career, and I enjoy that, [00:08:15] um, having gone through the pandemic. I really enjoy it in person, um, for the most. So, um, that's where I've landed. You know, now that we've come out of the pandemic, so I do lead and have for a [00:08:30] long time. It's part of my practice. Um, small forum groups of 8 women leaders that go through a year long program. And so that's kind of the group coaching that. So I primarily do that and I do this mix [00:08:45] of coach, uh, coach advisory, uh, as
David: Okay.
Eileen: to my practice. And if somebody asks, I might speak if somebody often someone I've coached with wants me to work with their team, I'll do that. [00:09:00] it's
David: Yeah.
Eileen: request. Yes.
David: Okay. So then do you, so you do a mix of group coaching, some advisory, and then one-to-one coaching as well as like the odd speaking engagements. So how does [00:09:15] that kind of enter or like, correlate with your, uh, the, the dare to lead, um, fac facilitation as well?
Eileen: yeah, the dare to lead is a 24 hour training, actually, and it's all
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: building. [00:09:30] so
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: naturally flows into the foundational concepts we talk about often in coaching. And so I have a just a plethora of tools and resources. [00:09:45] And things that I use that come out of that, uh, the other tool, if you will, that I use is the Enneagram. I'm a certified
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: practitioner. There's lots of great, um, tools and things for coaches to use [00:10:00] out there. That's the one I've chosen
David: Yeah.
Eileen: And I've gone, I've been, I was introduced by my coach. So I've been a student for 30 years. and when I actually sold my business, the two things I did, I went and got [00:10:15] certified, uh, with Bernie Brown.
And then I also got certified, uh, with the Enneagram. And the tool that, that I use with the Enneagram is literally a 42 page professional leadership report. And so,
David: Hmm.
Eileen: [00:10:30] jump starts a lot of the work that I do with coaching clients because it all starts with self -awareness and
David: Yes.
Eileen: a very hopeful place for us.
Well,
David: What are the, the dangers of working with a leader who isn't [00:10:45] self-aware?
Eileen: what ends up happening if you're not self - aware, the challenge is we sort of default ourselves onto other people. What our values are, what our style is, what our personality is, [00:11:00] we walk around pretty clueless, most of us, about what that is and that other people are different. so that's where my work with the Enneagram really comes in.
Because
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: your theory in the [00:11:15] enneagram, there are nine core types of individuals with different motivations. So if you don't
David: Yeah.
Eileen: that, you literally have a one in nine chance of getting it right. That's
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: for a leader.
David: Right.
Eileen: [00:11:30] Self -awareness, I also believe that the most self -aware leader in the room is the
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: has the responsibility to flex. can walk in a room, I can be situationally aware, not [00:11:45] be inauthentic, but because I know myself, I can flex for the best
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: the people I lead or the people I love. The nice thing about the Enneagrant work is it trans, it translates personally and professionally. You're the same [00:12:00] person.
David: Yeah. I, I, I love that connection between personally and professionally because, you know, often in, in the business world, people, coaches are brought in to a leader, become a better, you know, [00:12:15] executive or manager or whatever in an organization. But, you know, a person is, you cannot, you know, cut that person in half and just to be, let's just work on your, your business side.
We have to work on the whole person, right?[00:12:30]
Eileen: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that, that notion is going away a little bit more. You know, the whole leadership style from my perspective, I grew up with command and control and Jack Welsh and all of that stuff. [00:12:45] from my perspective, it doesn't work anymore. The
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: folks in the workforce and the people you need to lead typically, and I'm not sure anyone ever really responded well to that. Right? So this idea [00:13:00] of being a coaching self aware leader, who's able to be vulnerable. I mean, there
David: Yeah.
Eileen: in the workplace around leadership that you would not have seen 20 years ago. And a lot of that I will attribute [00:13:15] to Dr. Brown's work. Mm
David: she really, she, she changed a lot about the way people think about leadership. Um. Yeah, I, I remember hearing or Ted talk on Dare to Lead, and I was [00:13:30] just like, wow. I just, all I remember is just thinking, wow. ahead.
Eileen: Going to say, I think the two leadership concepts that are most important in her work. One is the definition of vulnerability and [00:13:45] are all of the emotions associated with risk, uncertainty
David: [00:14:00] Mm-hmm.
Eileen: so this idea of people getting comfortable with being more authentic with being more [00:14:15] vulnerable and seeing that as a strength and courageous is mind blowing for some people.
David: I, I think that, I guess it's part of the, kind of the old school idea, right? Where, um, you have to put on a brave [00:14:30] face. You had to look at, you have to be professional, you had to be the fearless leader. Um. You had to kind of be almost perfect, I guess, in some way. Right. But it's, it's [00:14:45] unrealistic.
It's almost to some, for some people it can be even like where it's, they try to. Be so perfect or, or portray like calm to a degree where [00:15:00] it's like everybody's kind of just questioning like the house is on fire, but you're acting like nothing's wrong. How, how this doesn't work, this doesn't connect. Right.
Um,
Eileen: yeah, it's um, [00:15:15] the idea of a coaching leader and a coaching leadership style is really embedded for me anyway. And this idea that as a leader. My job is now not to solve problems. [00:15:30] So as a manager on my way up to being one of those, those leaders, that's what got me to where I was
David: Yeah.
Eileen: right? I could
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I could take care of things, and as a genuine, true leader, [00:15:45] job becomes, can I identify? right challenge or problem to solve. And once I do that, then can I empower the people around me who work with me to solve it [00:16:00] on their own? And in that moment, I'm building their skills. my job. My job is not to solve problems at this point. It's to identify the right challenge. It's to identify the barrier to them solving the [00:16:15] problems. And even that is a shift for so many leaders, right? That's my job. Yeah,
David: so as a coach, um, what have you been finding that's been really rewarding about the work you're doing now?[00:16:30]
Eileen: you know, when people ask me about that, the description that feels most accurate is it makes my heart sing. It is at this point in my career. It is. It's so rewarding [00:16:45] to be either in a group or or in a one to one kind of situation and literally see the person in front of you shift their perspective. change their life and literally [00:17:00] it sounds so easy, but shift your perspective. shift your life. And so, um, at this point, I, I've been, uh, very successful by my definition. I've been recognized [00:17:15] and there's
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: That's that's driving me, um, the ability to help other people be more successful. However, they define that just it. I used to call it dancing with the dog. I had a very [00:17:30] large dog and, you know, when you held somebody, she would step up and there was just like, you have to almost let the joy out. Um, and, uh, so it's just, it, it makes me happy.
David: I can't [00:17:45] imagine it not making anybody happy, being able to be a part of somebody's story, to help them to change their perspective and to be able to. Shift gears in a way that makes them either more successful or joyful in, [00:18:00] in whatever way that they're trying to grow in their life.
I think being able to kind of make an impact in somebody's life in that way is, uh, I mean, I don't think everybody gets to do that. Um, [00:18:15] and so I think that's, that's amazing. Like I, I think as people. Being able to create a positive impact on others. That's like one of the most important things that we can try to do in the [00:18:30] world.
Eileen: and it, it fits for me the part of my, uh, learning about coaching. What was my niche? Where do I fit? Where do I have impact? there was a really, uh, there's a book called The Prosperous [00:18:45] Coach by Steve Chandler and Rich Litvin. a lot of what's in there I found incredibly helpful early in my career to help me figure out. know, how, how do I want this to unfold and one of the things they said in [00:19:00] there is if you want to make more money, serve more and for my life of service that totally resonated for me, right? You want to make more money, more and [00:19:15] That's, that's been a big part of my career as a coach.
David: How, how does, how does serving more help you to make more money? Just to kind of unpack that idea. Yeah.
Eileen: the idea [00:19:30] is for me, and it was also what they recommended, you want to talk to people, you want to serve people, you want to help people. You don't want
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: people coaching. The idea is people don't buy coaching. People experience coaching. [00:19:45] And so I am happy to, um, when someone is interested, say, look, let's just spend an hour together. Let's, you know, you can share with me what's happening. We have this conversation and. [00:20:00] There are times where even in that one hour conversation, someone has a shift, is, is good, and we don't need to coach. And that's okay with me, right? Because my goal is not to sign [00:20:15] up coaching clients, it's to
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: And so, that's a... That's a powerful experience for people not to be sold. And to be served. And so sometimes [00:20:30] you can talk to people over the years, you know, a couple times and then the time is right for them. They'll come back and and want to talk to you about coaching in a formal way. And so.
David: Yeah.
Eileen: also helps me as a [00:20:45] coach, frankly, because the best advice I ever got when I started this out from a friend of mine who had been coaching for about five years was she said, friends and never coach anyone you don't like and respect. [00:21:00] And that hour gives me a chance to see if we might be a good fit, you know, even
David: Right.
Eileen: wise. So it's it works for me as well as it works for them. Um, People that are really [00:21:15] focused on their, on money are like, well, why would you give away an hour of your time? And, oh my gosh, I made the mistake only once in my career of coaching with someone who was not a good fit, and it was painful.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: [00:21:30] not want to do that again.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: So, it's philosophically, it's a little different, I guess. Yes.
David: No, I, I mean, it, it makes sense, uh, in the, in that your first session with people is kind [00:21:45] of a, is like a, you know, a, it's a, it's a chemistry session, right? Kind of feeling out is this the right fit? Do we work together or can we work together? Um, you, it's because, you know, there's no, [00:22:00] there's no contract, there's, there's no, uh, commitment there.
Right? So it's, it's a little bit like. First date kind of thing. Just feel it out if it doesn't work.
Eileen: Yeah.
David: [00:22:15] Yeah.
Eileen: And again, you build trust is what happens in
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: And for me, I also want to know is what this person is hoping to accomplish or struggling with or up to something where I[00:22:30]
David: Yeah.
Eileen: I genuinely could support them. Yes,
David: Right. Yeah. Because, yeah, and that makes sense, right? Because we can't, we're not, maybe they need something specific or they are in a different role that they feel [00:22:45] like they need more help with. You know, maybe their CFO or more operations or whatever it is very specific, and they feel like they need, you might feel like they need someone who's had that experience to help them.
Eileen: yes. [00:23:00] you know, that brings up sort of this idea of niches in coaching. And when I did some of my coach training, I really struggled with that because
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I'm an entrepreneur. I don't like to be limited. Always was [00:23:15] underneath the surface, but at the
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I've come to believe you may have expertise or training or something in specific areas. And so for you to grow your business, that might be helpful, [00:23:30] to have that niche or focus, but over time, people are people. And you need to get to that core element of self -awareness and understanding and insight. And that to me, in my experience, is the same for everyone. [00:23:45] So even
David: Yeah.
Eileen: a career coach or you're a wellness coach or you're something else, you still have to start with the same foundation.
David: Right. When you've been working with your, your clients, [00:24:00] have there been any, like, you know, generally there's a, throughout a, you know, six month or a year long practice or, coaching engagement, something will happen and a a, a difficult [00:24:15] situation will happen, right? They'll go, there'll be something at work or personal. And when that's happened, how do you, how do you help your clients through those difficult situations?
Eileen: It's a, It's a little hard to hone in. Specifically, [00:24:30] in general, part of my coaching package includes access and laser coaching for those kinds of situations.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: someone could text me and say, hey, do you have 10 minutes? I have a tough conversation coming up. I want to just role play or [00:24:45] run it by you. those kinds of things are offered. Um, it's, it's great. It's in -person meetings plus support. I mean, the way
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: it is I'm all up, I'm all in. You're going to get [00:25:00] articles from me, you're going to have access to me. Um, and so we develop our relationship that way. Um, people are very respectful of of my time. You know, it's something important that comes. I [00:25:15] know. Sometimes people coaches are afraid that they're going to be overwhelmed again. I come
David: Yeah.
Eileen: this deep place of service and so I.
David: Yeah.
Eileen: want to be there. I want to be that resource. Uh, when you feel like you need that kind of [00:25:30] support.
David: Mm-hmm. So then in terms of, so. Just so that everybody understands your coaching, uh, when people are working with you for like one-to-one, or is it also for group coaching as well, that you [00:25:45] offer that?
Eileen: Um, both both
David: Okay.
Eileen: So I have 2 forums that run concurrently with staggered starts their year long
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: for women leaders. They're the niche, not [00:26:00] necessarily the C -suite, and they're not beginning leaders, but they're established leaders who really want to grow their skills. may or may not have had a lot of training, but they're doing it day in and day out. And,
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I started that early on. It followed a [00:26:15] format that I used in my career. in a number of different CEO forums, and so I literally cherry picked what I liked out of each of them, and created my own. And so, that is incredibly fulfilling. They meet once a month for [00:26:30] three hours, and then throughout they have access to me, um, and each other, uh, from that coaching.
Sure,
David: can we explore a little bit that group coaching, um, since you've kind of cherry picked and um, designed it on your [00:26:45] own, how does your group coaching package, can we go into a little bit more detail?
Eileen: sure, sure. It's, would describe it as a journey. we start with
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: Then most people go through the phase of [00:27:00] self -acceptance, self -forgiveness, whatever that is, that's a, that's a unique spot. And then we move into self -confidence. And when you have more self -confidence, when you believe that I am enough now, Then [00:27:15] your leadership development, just for me, takes off exponentially because it's no longer about, you know, You can be focused externally on the people you lead and the people you love. Right? And so part of that [00:27:30] is. Um, I'm teaching these people how to coach in a format where it's very gestalt. People share their challenge. We help them try to identify what the real challenge is through sharing [00:27:45] experiences. That's a forum kind of format. Very powerful. So they get to practice coaching. Um, and we cover topics, better decision making perfectionism. You mentioned all those things. And on the self [00:28:00] awareness piece, we dig into core values. We use the Enneagram insights and I use
David: Hmm.
Eileen: Brown's book. Uh, the gifts of imperfection, the 10 guideposts to wholehearted living and generate discussions. [00:28:15] Um, and so it's not a set course because it's very interactive. There's nowhere to
David: Okay.
Eileen: a room of 8 people. So everybody participates. Yeah,
David: Okay. So then just to kind of break it down a [00:28:30] little bit, so you, you, you start the journey together and then, um, it's over 12 months and there are, uh, milestones, I guess I, you could kind of define it as where it's like [00:28:45] self-awareness and then the next thing and the next thing, and then within that you have topics of.
That you guys kind of go over as well as, uh, a book that you go through as well?
Eileen: the process isn't [00:29:00] necessarily called out, but the meeting,
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: is in three sections, if you will. They're not always equal
David: Okay.
Eileen: ebb and flow. But there is that component of talking together about perfectionism or the things that are in the guidepost. [00:29:15] Then we have
David: Yeah.
Eileen: kind of format where people have filled out some information about what, uh, what's going on.
What are my great successes in the past month? What am I challenged with? Where could I use some support from the group? that's majority of [00:29:30] what's there. People are learning from one another as well, and I'm facilitating that. then there is a topic that maybe they've read a book or they've, they've listened to some podcasts on certain topics.
Maybe we're talking about trust, or we're talking about feedback and [00:29:45] those kinds of things. Um,
David: Okay.
Eileen: there's no advice. That's my job to keep people from giving advice. People don't want advice. but it's sharing experiences, um,
David: Okay.
Eileen: one another, right?[00:30:00]
David: Okay,
Eileen: It's
David: wonderful.
Eileen: Yeah,
David: I, I, yeah. As I talk to different coaches, I'm, I'm learning about different ways that people run their group coaches or, uh, coaching programs and, um. [00:30:15] It's always, yeah, it's, it's always one. It's just interesting to learn about and understand, but it's also, as you built your own program, it's like, okay, how can others build their own programs?
And so thank you for sharing.
Eileen: and the [00:30:30] program unintentionally, even though I was a marketing person has created all kinds of opportunities. Right. So the people
David: Hmm.
Eileen: in your group forum are people who lead teams, and there are people that are at companies. And so, [00:30:45] you know, often opportunities are Eileen. Could you come in and help me facilitate a value session with my team?
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: know, can we come in and do something on trust? And so that wasn't my intent. Just because I had that [00:31:00] had found so much value, but it has been an offshoot of that, and it's the kind of relationship building referral that I wanted to create in my practice.
David: As, as we're talking about your coaching business and your practice and how you want, wanted to build [00:31:15] that, let, can we talk a little bit more about your, your coaching business?
Eileen: absolutely.
David: Um, so currently, do you run it as a, a solo coaching business, or do you have a, is it like a, a small [00:31:30] consultancy or do you have a small team that works with you?
How does your coaching business look like today?
Eileen: It's a solo coaching, and that's by intention. Um, I
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: have, uh, continue to have my own coach, which I think is
David: [00:31:45] Mm-hmm.
Eileen: really important for anyone who decides to go into coaching.
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: from you if you don't? Take advantage of the same kind of service, right? So that is one of the questions I always ask new people.
Do you have your own coach? Um,
David: [00:32:00] Mm-hmm.
Eileen: some, there are one or two people that I might co facilitate something with people that
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: something to an event or whatever, but I've never had the intention of growing it. I, I
David: Okay.
Eileen: i had employees before and [00:32:15] there's just, it's not where I intended for this.
David: You mentioned like, uh, the referral part of your business and, and so as you were building your business, 'cause you were an entrepreneur and you know how to build a big business and this is your [00:32:30] coaching business and it's a solo, what were your intentions as you started building this, this business out?
Eileen: it's gonna sound kind of funny, but my intention was not to get too big, because [00:32:45] I've always been a salesperson at heart. I really
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: connect with people. And so I wanted to be very cautious about the work and the clients that I took on because I knew
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: could build something really [00:33:00] big, which is sort of opposite for the point I'm at in my career, right?
I am 65. I'm enjoying life. I have always worked to travel and so I wanted to find something where I could blend, [00:33:15] um, still having an impact, creating a life that was there. And my biggest challenge was not selling a lot of people, right? Um, I know that doesn't necessarily fit well with your [00:33:30] podcast. It does from the perspective that.
If I had to give some advice to someone starting out, it's understand what lifestyle and business you want to create first. What does that look like? [00:33:45] Not
David: Yeah.
Eileen: right? What's
David: Yeah.
Eileen: What are you trying to create? Um,
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: build from there, and I found, uh, the resources through Rich Litvin and Steve Chandler very helpful. [00:34:00] have a grid and a chart that says, what kind of coach do you want to be? And the highest level, I think, is you want to make money in your sleep. Some
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: people want to coach, uh, at different levels. They want to keep [00:34:15] their other income and job and do this part -time. Some people want to do
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: full time.
And so, how coaching might fit in your vision of creating your life is where you want to start.
David: Yeah, and actually that's something [00:34:30] I encourage coaches to, to think about too is because, you know, you, you start putting your head down and you start building and working, and then one day you look up and you're like, you don't even recognize where you ended up. And so [00:34:45] building with intentionality is, is very important.
Eileen: And I also work with all of my clients around the difference between success, milestones and achievement. And they're all very different.
David: Hmm.[00:35:00]
Eileen: So success exists in our limbic brain. It's a feeling. Success
David: Hmm.
Eileen: a feeling. And because it's a feeling and there's no words in our limbic brain, we try to figure something else out.
And more often we hit on milestones [00:35:15] and achievements. there's nothing wrong with those, but understanding that they're different. Um, a milestone, I might want to work and get the corner office, right? But, you know, four or five time [00:35:30] months later, the corner office is just your office. Right. It was a milestone along the way, and that's okay. Achievements, you know, those are a little bit bigger. There's something that you've worked really hard for, but [00:35:45] confusing them with success, I don't think is helpful because you can have success
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: everyday, all day. It's a feeling.
David: Thank you for explaining that because I think that's, very important because we easily [00:36:00] mix those things up it, again, it's, it's, it's to your point of what kind of life am I trying to build for myself and understanding success and achievement. Where, where do I want? What kind of life do I wanna build?
What do I wanna be able to do? And what kind [00:36:15] of, you know, how do I wanna support my family? Or, uh, what kind of time available do I wanna have for my family? These are all important things to, to consider as you're building. Um, you know, I, I'm curious to know if, [00:36:30] because, because of your experience,
Eileen: In the
David: you were a successful business person as you were building.
Solo business.
Eileen: don't have one.
David: What were some of the challenges that you expected, uh, as you were building this?
Eileen: Part of [00:36:45] my personality is I didn't expect any challenges if I'm really honest. Um, I have made so many mistakes in my life and that's how I learn, right? So
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: it's not necessarily a mistake. There's, [00:37:00] there's this idea that you can't be successful unless you fail. And I think in at least in the entrepreneurial know, what did I
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: Let me pivot. Let me evolve. Let me keep going.
So I went into it with the perspective that I [00:37:15] would figure it out the what surprised me as a challenge was the and this was almost 15 years ago at this point was the attitude around coaching. Was where [00:37:30] I was really struggling to find my footing because people at that time were life coaches and they were charging almost nothing per hour. And from
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: that really hurt the industry overall, you know, [00:37:45] people who just hung a coaching shield and yet really didn't have the investment in the training and the experience to do it.
And so figuring
David: Yeah.
Eileen: I knew the two words, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, that I didn't want to use, were life coach.[00:38:00]
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: Um, and so being able to do executive leadership, leadership coaching, that different level. And so figuring out how to talk about what it was that I was doing. And,
David: Yeah.
Eileen: know, I [00:38:15] learned what creates value, right in coaching So
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: i had some of that experience, but that was probably where I kind of muddled through a little bit, and in that context figured out where's my where's my sweet spot, right? Where do I[00:38:30]
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: And where are people willing to invest in it?
David: I think that's really important because, I mean, we talked about it at the beginning where we talked about like different types of coaching and what, how people perceive coaching. [00:38:45] Right? And so I think what you're kind of talking about is also when people are creating their messaging around their business and what value that they bring to their clients.
That's really important too. To be very specific about [00:39:00] like, how, what value do you bring to your leaders? What kind of results do, can they expect from working with you? Um, so you, what, well, I guess the question would be like, what is the elevator [00:39:15] pitch when somebody asks, what do you do now? How, how do you present yourself to people, um, as a coach?
Eileen: Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, sometimes it's situational, depending
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: where I'm at. But I'm a [00:39:30] leadership coach. Um, and I support, I challenge, I grow, I nurture, help create braver, stronger leaders. And
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: ones that are leading with an open heart and an [00:39:45] open mind and for me, you know, if you want to put it in that context for coaching are about creating conversations, let's create a conversation, you know, tell me
David: Yeah.
Eileen: what what's maybe in your way or [00:40:00] what you're struggling with or what you want to accomplish and,
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: they will figure out one of my favorite, uh, Uh, learnings from Chandler and Litvin was coaching isn't [00:40:15] a maybe it's at the end of this conversation.
It's hell. Yes or hell. No,
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I'm going to leave and come back. Let me talk to my partner. Let me do this. Let me see if I can afford it. [00:40:30] And their their advice is say, no, you're not ready. It's clear. I'll be here. You know, when
David: Yeah.
Eileen: or when it feels like a hell yes, come and find me. And if [00:40:45] in the meantime I can support you a little bit, please reach out. Even though you're not paying me. Serve more. Serve more.
David: Yeah. I, I, I really, I really liked that perspective. I had another coach who I [00:41:00] interviewed earlier who, who they kind of, they talked them into coaching
Eileen: Yes.
David: and
Eileen: Yes. Yes,
David: That was the worst thing that they could have done because it was, it was just a struggle to work with that [00:41:15] client the whole time. Um, and so after that, he learned that, you know, I, I can't pull them into coaching.
I need the, to invite them into coaching. And I, I think there's a very similar correlation here between the hell yes [00:41:30] or the hell no. Right? It's.
Eileen: And their other line that really resonates with me, whether it's sales of coaching or whatever it is, it's that needy is creepy, right? If you're a new coach trying to build [00:41:45] your practice and you really feel like you have to sell this person to feed your family, you're creepy
David: Yeah. Hmm.
Eileen: no one is going to sign up with you.
And so,
David: Yeah.
Eileen: you know, if you're going to jump off the cliff and go into [00:42:00] coaching, you should have other income to support you. Yeah,
David: You know, when the, I, I'd love to pick your brain because again, your experience in marketing, and you've been in the coaching [00:42:15] industry for a while now. Um, when you see new coaches, you know, coming out now. What common mistakes do you see that they're doing in, in their marketing or in building their [00:42:30] business?
Um, yeah.
Eileen: a good question. um, I do get people who call me, you know, someone will refer to say, I've left my, you know, big corporate career or something. And now I'm going to be [00:42:45] a coach. And so, um, I think we've covered some of it. First of all, I'll say, do you have your own coach, right? That's a pretty revealing question. Um,
David: Yeah.
Eileen: I would say, what's the kind of [00:43:00] income you're needing to or hoping to make in your personal situation
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: And what most people don't realize is there are very, very few coaches who make six figures or more. That's [00:43:15] just the reality of it. And so it's not that it's a hard business or, that's just the reality.
I think the number from ICF is most coaches make under $140 ,000. [00:43:30] That should help you decide how do I want to enter this? How do I want to dip my toe into the water here? Do I want to just jump off the cliff? Or do I want to do what I did was begin to [00:43:45] practice, get better, you know, while I also had my other company and income.
Explore what I'm really good at. Where do I have impact? So understanding
David: Yeah.
Eileen: the transition for me in [00:44:00] my coach training was, and I had people who said, Eileen, you don't need to get, you don't need to go to coaching school. You know how to do that and it is an art and a science. And so
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: not planning on doing that, [00:44:15] they're just assuming.
Oh, I've mentored people my whole career. I'm a coach. Um,
David: Right?
Eileen: that's a challenge. And again, those are people that, um, if they don't deliver, don't do our industry a service, right? So [00:44:30] understand where you're at with the training and experience and what you have to offer. I
David: Yeah.
Eileen: coach your friends or family. Don't coach uninvited. Um, serve more. Don't sell. [00:44:45] Um, and really think about what do you want to create? Be a creator. A lot of
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: um, unconsciously we're walking around in the world saying, what can I have? Right?
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: fit into what can I [00:45:00] have versus what do I want to create? What's
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: want to have?
What's the lifestyle? Um, what is feeling successful look like for me? And, and
David: Yeah.
Eileen: different paths. So [00:45:15] if
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: driven around the income piece, be really smart about it. The
David: Yeah. What do you see as the biggest differentiators between. The coaches who are doing six figures and then [00:45:30] the coaches who are barely making 40,000, what is, what is a thing that separates these two groups?
Eileen: value they provide.
David: Mm-hmm.[00:45:45]
Eileen: I mean, delivering for your clients, um, is ultimately is Steve Chandler and Rich Lipman say what's in your bank account, right? People [00:46:00] will pay for value. That's delivered for transformation for shifts for those kinds of things. And so it does take a while to build up your experience.
You're not really good when you open your door. [00:46:15] That comes from hours and hours and hours of working with folks. It comes with training yourself, taking ongoing training, reading
David: Yeah.
Eileen: doing those things, and improving your actual coaching. [00:46:30] such a better coach now, 15 years after I started, right? That just makes sense
David: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I mean the, the more hours you put into anything, if you're trying to, to improve and grow, just what, what is [00:46:45] somebody says like, just try to grow 1% every day.
Eileen: Mm.
David: if you try to grow 1% every day, that's it. compounds.
Eileen: Mm -hmm.
David: Over, over the years. Right. You know, when you look back, uh, at, [00:47:00] at your coaching career now, is there anything that you would've done differently when you started out?
I.
Eileen: know, I thought really hard on that question when, um, you had shared that with me prior to our conversation. [00:47:15] Um, there's nothing I regret. Let me put it that way
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: Um, what I would have done. Differently really probably [00:47:30] understood my value and, you know, from the sense of what do I bring to the table, right? Where, where are those things that I can add value? And I just, I wasn't as focused. I was excited [00:47:45] about being in coaching and looking at at all different things. But isn't, there isn't a lot. Again, a lot of pressure
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: off because I still had an income. So I could explore, [00:48:00] I could trip, I could revise.
David: Yeah.
Eileen: You know, I could do those kinds of things without being creepy
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: and needy. Um,
David: Yeah.
Eileen: what I will say in reflection that I've enjoyed the [00:48:15] most and is the benefits that have been provided to me. my coach used to say, and now I really understand what he meant. teach what we most need to learn.
David: [00:48:30] Hmm.
Eileen: And so for me, coaching has made me a better human being.
I
David: Hmm.
Eileen: I have the ability to be really present with people. have the ability to really listen to people. [00:48:45] And those two things have continued to help me develop deeper and more meaningful relationships in my life. I was moving pretty fast as an entrepreneur running my own company. And so it's been a really great experience.
David: Yeah.
Eileen: It's been a nice benefit [00:49:00] to also breathe and slow down and be instead of do, right? And for me, coaching and get to be who I am and show up, um, hopefully in a way that creates value for the person [00:49:15] who's sitting across from me.
David: I honestly, I couldn't imagine anybody sitting across from you and not. Getting value from that conversation. Um, I mean, even through the, the two conversations we've had, I, I've [00:49:30] learned, uh, quite a bit. It's gonna take me a little bit of time to, to unpack everything and. Because there is, there's, there's just been, it's been a very dense conversation of information and knowledge and, and wisdom. So I'm, I [00:49:45] really appreciative of that. So I can't imagine anybody having, having conversations with you, not getting value from that time with you. You know, I, I'm interested like, because, 'cause you said you're, you're 65 now. What are you thinking [00:50:00] about for yourself for the future? Are you gonna continue coaching for the next, you know, for as long as you, what does that look like for you for the next five, 10 years? Because from, from the sounds of it, you don't really need to be coaching, but you enjoy it.
Eileen: It's a [00:50:15] great
David: share.
Eileen: It's a great question. Um, as long as I can continue to blend and I don't believe in balance. I believe in blending, um, and doing lots of [00:50:30] traveling again. I shared. I'd love to do that. I used to say, I only work to travel, right? So lots of international travel exploration. Um, and I've been able to do it and take a couple months off and, you know, do extended trips and still [00:50:45] coach. Um, I often talk to my clients. They understand. I'm not the coach. Who's going to, you know, take me on a trip. Have two sessions every week for a month and do those kinds of things that, you know, we set up something
David: Yeah.
Eileen: So I'm, I'm fluid in how we create our[00:51:00]
David: Yeah.
Eileen: Um, but, yeah, I see at least a 70 or 75, assuming I'm in good health and I keep creating value for people, then they'll keep asking. Um, it is very challenging for me to think [00:51:15] about. I even like the word retirement, because somehow for me, it's connected to not having a purpose and not having impact. And that's what's really important to me. And it might be different
David: Yeah.
Eileen: if I [00:51:30] worked for someone else for years and years and years, and then I retired. But my perspective is that most entrepreneurs don't retire. They just evolve. What's next? What do I want to do
David: Yeah.
Eileen: I want to create? Right, [00:51:45] because we've had this opportunity to be creators.
David: I'm very curious, like for your coaching practice, will you just continue? Know you, you mentioned that you, you intentionally keep it small. It's a solo practice, so you'll just kind of keep [00:52:00] it the way it is. The, the two groups that you do throughout the year, stagger and your one-to-one coaching clients and your, your different things, or do you plan on maybe doing something else as well?
Eileen: Well, I have [00:52:15] something that turned into a significant part of my business. So I am literally almost an in -house coach.
David: Okay.
Eileen: for one of my, uh, CEO friends and her company. [00:52:30] And so I've done that for three and a half years and we have a retainer and a certain number of hours and she has her leaders and teams go through that.
And that's been especially rewarding because I get to know and follow people on a regular [00:52:45] basis. And so, you know, it. That's something I have flexibility to do as well, and I didn't start out thinking I was going to do that, but it was
David: Mm-hmm.
Eileen: I do understand business and like a business.
David: Yeah.
Eileen: [00:53:00] great way to keep me in and I get a lot of satisfaction watching. And staying in touch with people over time to see them implement and grow and struggle and do those kinds of things. So that's also another part, but I'm still able to fit that [00:53:15] in, it in and do it. So
David: where can, you know, as we're coming to the end of the this, uh, call, uh, where can people go to find out more about what you're doing or to, to read more about your [00:53:30] articles or, or, you know, just hear from, from you and, you know, soak up more of your wisdom and knowledge?
Eileen: sure. So I'm an active participant on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. Um, my website is [00:53:45] onecreativeview.com, all spelled out. Um, hopefully I'll be updating that, but you can learn a lot about me there. Um, or just reach out via email again. I, um, I'm happy to support other people on their [00:54:00] coaching journey.
People were incredibly helpful to me when I started in terms of suggestions and resources, and I believe in paying it forward.
David: Eileen, thank you so much for this conversation and this time. I really appreciated it [00:54:15] and I've. Really, there's just been so much information here. I'm gonna probably be unpacking for the weekend, all of this. So thank you so much and I appreciate your time.
Eileen: Thank you, David. It's been a pleasure to talk with you today.