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We discuss how churches are strengthening discipleship and helping people grow in confidence in the Bible in a changing culture.
The Quiet Revival Podcast: what's the story? explores the stories behind a renewed interest in Christianity in England and Wales.
Whether you’re a church leader, small group leader, Bible communicator or simply curious about the Church in the UK, this podcast will inform, encourage, and equip you to discover your place in this unfolding movement.
The Quiet Revival sparked a national conversation about faith, church and what God might be doing in England and Wales today. Since its publication and the recording of these podcast episodes, we've had to retract the report after the underlying data was found to be flawed – but the conversation it started hasn't ended.
The Quiet Revival was always more than a single survey. Across England and Wales we're seeing signs of renewed interest in Christianity, especially among younger people: rising Bible sales, more conversions and adult baptisms, growing attendance at evangelism courses. Many of you have shared stories that point to a changing spiritual landscape. The questions this moment raises are more important than ever.
How is your church responding to this missional moment? And how can you invite today’s spiritually open Gen Z to experience Scripture?
David Oliver (00:01)
We don't want people coming out knowing more and not having been transformed by the word. We want them to come out fundamentally changed by God's word. And if they know some extra stuff, that's great. That's a nice little bonus on the side, but actually fundamentally it's about how can we help them grow. So that drives when we pick a topic or a book, ⁓ that drives how we break up that and look at that.
Kérèn N'Yampala (00:29)
If a plant was to uproot itself it wouldn't last very long so you need to be connected to the vine which is Jesus. ⁓ And when you're serving people it's again having those people that you can go to that can surround you with the word of God as well. So that even when we do keep ourselves up to a high standard but we do slip because we're human, we're natural. And so those people can keep you accountable and hold you close in that ⁓ and make sure that you're still going down the right path as well.
Sian Rees (00:53)
Hi and welcome back. My name is Sian and I am joined by Andrew and we are ready to dive into another great conversation.
Andrew Ollerton (01:02)
Yeah, we've been hearing from leaders and Bible communicators across the UK. They've been raising Bible confidence in this spiritual moment. From St. Paul's Hammersmith in the centre of London, a Blinefer Stinyog in North Wales, and then Sirencester Baptist Church as well. And today I think we're heading home for you, Sean. We're going to your local church, right?
Sian Rees (01:23)
Yes, we visited my church, City Church Cardiff, and had the joy of catching up with David Oliver and Kérèn N'Yampala. And we spoke about how they're putting community at the heart of reading the Bible together throughout the week. They have tools, encouragement, and advice to share. So, let's listen in to that conversation. David, thanks so much for joining us on the Quiet Revival podcast.
In this second series we're saying that if things are different spiritually then maybe we should be doing things differently. So how about you tell us some of the ways that City Church are helping people to engage creatively with the Bible.
David Oliver (02:03)
Yeah, well a couple of years ago we looked at We felt a little uncomfortable with how ⁓ People were engaging with the Bible. We were teaching we were preaching we were ⁓ Had small groups we were encouraging people to read their Bible But it didn't feel connected and it didn't feel like it was having the impact that we felt it God would wanted to have so ⁓ we started to
draw things together and to actually sort of be bit more deliberate about it. we now in our main preaching series, so three times a year we have two month preaching series, ⁓ we will draw from topics that are very, that are ⁓ Bible based, that are Bible themed rather than topic themed. ⁓ And then what we will do is we will then ⁓ unpack that and
in our small groups, we produce small group material. But then, this is probably the big step we took, was we were then decided to create Bible plans, ⁓ ways of which people could engage daily with the Bible linked to the theme we were looking at. ⁓ And we used the YouVersion platform. We worked with the guys at YouVersion and we have written our own devotional. So there's a little bit of a devotional and a Bible reading.
But then what has been really exciting off the back of that is that people get together in groups. Sometimes on the YouVersion app you can create communities and groups or sometimes on WhatsApp as well. And they'll share what God is saying to them from that day's passage. So we get to see how people are engaging with God's Word and how they are ⁓
hearing from God for themselves from what God's Word is saying.
Sian Rees (04:02)
And of course reading the Bible in community, know, feedback is one of the key things, isn't it? And I also hear that you're doing something in terms of the Sunday gathering where people get to share, is that
Kérèn N'Yampala (04:13)
Thanks.
David Oliver (04:14)
Yeah, so we felt ⁓ it would be good to hear from members of the congregation, not just those of us that are paid to preach, ⁓ but also every person in the congregation. Now we can't do it with every person, but each week for each service we will select someone, and the week before, and we'll say, would you at some point, one of the passages you're reading this week, come up with one verse, one thought,
for one minute. ⁓ And they share that at the beginning of the sermon. They come up and they'll share that thought. And sometimes you you've picked on someone who's really eloquent, but sometimes it's someone who's really nervous, but they share something really precious that God has spoken to them from that word. And the great joy they have is they get to pick who's doing it next week. So they'll pick someone in the congregation to do the following weeks. So, that we've loved that. We've loved hearing.
Sian Rees (04:45)
Amazing.
David Oliver (05:13)
people's voices of just how God is speaking to them.
Sian Rees (05:17)
So what you think has been the most effective tool in helping people to move from occasional Bible reading into sort of more regular rhythms of engagement? Is it things like the You version plans or is it a level of accountability discipleship?
David Oliver (05:34)
think probably the biggest thing is that whole sense of accountability, of community doing this together. ⁓ The YouVersion ⁓ app has been a great tool, but we do have people that do it with physical, good old fashioned physical Bibles, ⁓ and ⁓ will share on WhatsApp or groups like that. I think that there's been some great technological tools to help us, but I think what has been at the heart of it is a community doing this together, walking together.
encouraging one another but in those moments as well nudging them. I haven't heard from you this week and you didn't put anything on the group and you know that's not a heavy thing it's family just encouraging one another.
Sian Rees (06:18)
I've able to hear from every member in the congregation. That's really rich, isn't
David Oliver (06:22)
Absolutely. We've had people ⁓ commenting ⁓ from our oldest members right through to some of our kids. In fact, some of the topics we've been doing, we did a series on a heart like David just earlier this year. And we actually replicated all this stuff through into our kids and our youth work as well. Amazing, yeah. So that we were all doing the same things at the same time. And so, yeah, it's been great hearing from 15 year olds and
50 year olds and 90 year olds, it's great, it's wonderful.
Sian Rees (06:53)
Amazing. So how do you ensure that accountability is not just a checklist but a joy actually? How have you ⁓ encouraged that sense of corporate engagement really?
David Oliver (07:07)
I think it's ⁓ one of the big things is it is actually not making it this big prerequisite. It's not because as soon as you make it something heavy and that the accountability is checking up on you then that's not the heart of the gospel. That's not the heart of what God is wanting to do. So it is about encouragement. It's about family together. So it started really
It sprung from our small groups who are already in relationship with one another. But we only probably, like many churches, we only have probably about a third of our congregation are in small groups. So it was then about spilling over into the wider congregation and encouraging the wider congregation to be part of that. And so there we now see little groups of people. So we've sometimes done it as one big group, but sometimes with little groups of people discussing the passages.
It's just being flexible, it's being creative, but it's also about being loving. It's recognizing that people are busy, people have a lot going on in their lives, and yes, we want them to make Scripture a priority, but that's not from a position of thou shalt. It's a position of come on, let's come together.
Sian Rees (08:27)
Wonderful. So what principles guide you in terms of what you decide to study thematically? You talked about the importance of choosing Bible themes and not just themes. What are your principles that guide you into what we study?
David Oliver (08:45)
So I think we've been very focused on saying that it should ideally follow through a Bible, either a passage or a character or something like that, rather than being purely topic-based. But then off the back of that, the focus is not intellectual, it's discipleship. It's actually, how do we help these characters, these stories, these Bible books,
help people grow in their daily walk with Jesus, grow in their faith, in their discipleship journey. We don't want people coming out knowing more and not having been transformed by the Word. We want them to come out fundamentally changed by God's Word. And if they know some extra stuff, that's great. That's a nice little bonus on the side, but actually fundamentally it's about how can we help them grow. So that drives when we pick a topic or a book. ⁓
That drives how we break up that and look at that. So we do that with Galatians, we're just planning through. Each, we're doing six weeks, one on each chapter, but what is the key discipleship lesson from each of those chapters that we want people to come away with?
Sian Rees (10:02)
We have a theory of change at Bible Society in terms of raising Bible confidence and it's very much through head, which is the sort of intellectual side of things, the knowledge side, then it's the heart, how does this affect my emotions and what I then in turn love and whatever. But then also in terms of hands and out working what the word says and it sounds like you're very focused on all three already.
David Oliver (10:27)
Absolutely, yeah, you know, we believe that people need to be confident in handling the word, you know, that they need to have a... in the Bible that they are holding in their hands, that they can trust it. But it needs to change them inside and it needs to make a difference in their life. But it also needs to make a difference in our world and in the places God has placed them. So, you know, it's what does that life of David teach me about being
civil servant or a doctor or a shop worker or a stay-at-home mum. How does that, how does God's Word make a difference in my life? So yeah, and that's what would drive absolutely what we're doing.
Sian Rees (11:10)
Many of the listeners of this podcast will be in leadership themselves. And so do you have any words of encouragement or any cautions that you'd like to give people on the journey of raising Bible confidence?
David Oliver (11:22)
⁓ I think the first thing to say is you might listen to what I've said and say, wow, that sounds really daunting. Do I need a big staff? Do I need a big budget to do this? And I think the answer is no. ⁓ Start with where you are at. There's loads of great resources out there already in loads of different places that you can piggyback off to start something like this.
Something like this week in the word is really easy. It's just picking someone to say, what has God spoken to you this week? That's a nice, easy thing to start. Then you can build into things like, you know, the daily plan and the stuff like that. Yeah, that takes time. It does take time. But there are great resources, know, there are plans on your version already that you can use as a starting point and almost work the other way. Work from the daily reading plan to create a...
preaching program and stuff backwards from that. So that you're using what's already out there. So I think, you know, start small, start with where you're at. ⁓ Don't feel overwhelmed by having to create something significantly large. It certainly doesn't take a huge budget. know, putting things on your version is free. We produce a guide for our small group leaders. That's a small amount of money to print those. But, you know,
So it's not expensive financially. And my probably my, the one thing we've learned and chat being challenged in this is almost what we're not going to do. Right. You know, so we're, we're not, we're not going to run ⁓ lots of thematic stuff. Then some people would love us to do, you know, something on, I can't think, but you know, the array, you know, the workplace, you know, and stuff like that. And we have to go, well, no, we're not, we'll bring.
that into what we're doing, but we're going to be focused on, really deliberately focused, and that means saying no, probably more than to a lot of stuff that people would like us to do, so we stay focused on the yes of what we're going to do.
Sian Rees (13:34)
So it sounds like what you're saying is start small, be intentional, keep focused.
David Oliver (13:39)
Absolutely. Brilliant. Brilliant.
Sian Rees (13:43)
Karen, thank you so much for joining us on the Quiet Revival podcast. We're really excited to talk with you because you look after our younger generation and the 11 to 18. And I was really interested in finding out how you raise Bible confidence within our teenagers.
Kérèn N'Yampala (14:01)
⁓ I think what was good is when I got this job, lots of them knew the Bible and they were very charged so I think my role coming into this was I want you to know why basically because you can know things but not fully understand it and so I always have them reading the word and I get them to read it out and to find it so they understand the Old Testament and New Testament and then get them to break down little words themselves to find actual meaning in it that they can contextualise in their own like worlds and stuff.
Sian Rees (14:27)
Wonderful. So a lot of the people that you work with, the young people, they are sort of church kids anyway, but there'll be ones who aren't. How have you gone about raising Bible confidence with them?
Kérèn N'Yampala (14:38)
Always assume that there are people in your room that you're talking to that have never heard anything of the Bible because how many times do we need things re-explained to us because you've learnt it when you were younger and then you've actually forgotten the true meaning and depth of it so it's always explaining what words mean and not just assuming that everybody knows what salvation is or what faith is so doing that for them, for those who don't know the Bible also helps solidify in those who do supposedly know the Bible as well.
Sian Rees (15:03)
Excellent. Can you think of a particular story of somebody who has engaged with the Bible and maybe encountered Jesus or been helped to think in a different way because of it?
Kérèn N'Yampala (15:17)
But yeah, we're looking at what the true religion is basically and what God says is the religion that he's looking for, which is looking after the poor, the widowed and etc. And so I got them to break down, was like, what does religion mean to you? Is it good? Is it bad? Etc. So it's again opening that space as well for them to form their own understanding, not just me shoving stuff down their throat, but through that they're actually able to take into context what the word religion mean as Jesus portrays it, not necessarily the way our world sees it as something bad or to push away because we're in this religion.
But what does it truly mean to actually understand it in a biblical perspective?
Sian Rees (15:50)
I mean one of the things that really strikes me about that generation is the heart to see it outworked in their lives and in their communities, their schools, with their friends, with their family. That seems to be something that is really characteristic. Would that be true of our teenagers?
Kérèn N'Yampala (16:08)
Yeah, definitely. I think they definitely need examples that they can use in their own lives. Which is why there's so much power in teaching young people and children because they need it in their context basically. Because you can talk about the way you can give it to them the way that you would to adults but they won't understand it fully. So whenever I give examples, I always give examples of like when you're in school, when you're in your part-time jobs etc. so that they can tangibly feel it kind of thing.
They want something that they can feel and hold and actually see lived out in their lives, like you said.
Sian Rees (16:41)
Yeah, wonderful. think sometimes, perhaps in even my generation, it's always been a matter of just engaging the heart and sometimes the head, but this is a generation that really want to outwork it through their hands as well.
Kérèn N'Yampala (16:54)
Definitely. go to Bible college as well and our policy is heads, hearts and hands. So in going and studying theology, which is what I'm doing, it's opened up my mind to knowing God, but also knowing God. So both in head and in heart and then that all comes together and then impacts the way that I live my life, which is my hands kind of thing.
Sian Rees (17:16)
So what words of encouragement would you give to other youth workers, perhaps people who work with young adults as well? How would you encourage them to first of go more deeply into the Bible but also to take those that they're serving more deeply into the Bible?
Kérèn N'Yampala (17:30)
I'd
say be hungry overall, be very hungry. We talk about the Word of God being our daily bread kind of thing, meaning that we have to go back to it each and every single day. You wouldn't go a day without eating, so why are you going a day without the Word of God? Another practical way is when I started picking up my faith with God and relationship with Him for myself, the Bible's a big book, so it's hard to know where to start. You can start from Genesis or wherever, but...
For me, what I found easy or easier to start off kind of thing was going back to the stories that I'd grown up with in Sunday school. So looking at like Esther, ⁓ Shadrach Meshach and Evendigo and like looking at them and being like, okay, cool, that's a nice story, but what does that mean for my life now? ⁓ Again, that way of contextualising it to my life and seeing how Jesus is working right now. Because it's very easy to be like, yeah, cool, that was back then, but he is still working now, which is why we're here and why we believe in him. ⁓ And I think...
As long as you're going back to Jesus each and every single day and making sure that you're acknowledging Him, walking with Him, He will keep you on the right path as well. Because the second, like, if a plant was to uproot itself, it wouldn't last very long, so you need to be connected to the vine, which is Jesus. ⁓ And when you're serving people, it's again having those people that you can go to, that can surround you with the Word of God as well. So that even when we do keep ourselves up to a high standard, but we do slip because we're human, we're natural.
And so those people can keep you accountable and hold you close in that and make sure that you're still going down the right path as well.
Sian Rees (19:04)
Just want to pick up on one thing that you've mentioned there, which is this high standard. And this is something that we're hearing across the United Kingdom at the moment, that actually people of your generation, slightly older, slightly younger, they want the high bar. They don't want the watered down version of discipleship. What's that all about? How come your generation have such hunger to press into God?
Kérèn N'Yampala (19:31)
I think it reflects kind of what our world is like. The world is very much do what you want and whatever, but it's like how am I, how do I know what is right and what is wrong if everything is right and do what you feel? And I think people are looking for boundaries and for strictness because that's what life is to a certain extent. and we're seeing it in like psychologically and mentally, people are growing up without boundaries, without barriers and so...
We have people who are running feral essentially in the world, not knowing how to react, to dress, how to speak to people, how to go about education and stuff like that. And people want rigidness is what I think to a certain extent. And I think it's funny because we are, I always think of it as like our generation, our world is very individualistic, but we yearn as humans and naturally for collectivism and for being in groups and for being with people exactly.
But again, it's a thing of like, there's no standard. And so it's like, yes, we've got community, but actually we're not impacting each other's lives, which is what friendship and loving one another is supposed to be. And I think people are really seeking that they just want, they want God essentially is what it is. But they don't know that that's Him and they don't understand how His love is in everything that we see.
Sian Rees (20:49)
So Karen, you talked about hunger for the word of God. How do you cultivate that hunger? Do you signpost people to specific resources? Is it a sense of friendship and relational connection? What do you do to really cultivate hunger?
Kérèn N'Yampala (21:07)
I think it's a mixture of everything that you just mentioned. I think it takes real intentionality because again you can be hungry and not do anything about it and you're still going to be hungry. ⁓ But you need to fill yourself with good food that is satiating and keeps you full. ⁓ I think it's very funny the way that the Israelites in the desert when God was giving them manna all they had to take was enough for that day. If they tried to keep it wouldn't carry on to the next day and that's what it is again with your daily bread.
and having community that again pulls you up to a high standard like we said. But yeah, I think definitely encouraging people to grow in groups as well. And I think I've seen that from my young people as well, just on their own, which I love. I was at a conference a couple of months ago, I think it was about February. So the message had put on a No More Nouse tour and at the end of it they had a gig and a concert and they made a gospel appeal. And lots of my young people went forward and I was crying. I was so amazed by it. And then after that I was like kind of falling up and they were like,
we've agreed to come together and read the word together. Because he got given a book, I think it was like, look. And they were like, yeah, we've come together. We're going to read this once a week and just meet up. And I was like, I love that. That's the initiative that it takes. But they also understand at their young ages that you need people to do this with. You can't do it by your own, ⁓ which is different and countercultural to what our world would say, or the way our world is very individualistic.
Sian Rees (22:29)
Yes, and we've changed the six o'clock, haven't we? So we have three services here at City Church. We have the nine, the eleven and the six. And we've changed the six o'clock, haven't we? Do want to just speak into how we do that slightly differently so that there's conversation?
Kérèn N'Yampala (22:42)
Yeah, so what's funny is that I've not known any other 6.3M service ⁓ differently than what we do now. But basically we have tables set up, have snacks, drinks ⁓ and we just get people to sit among each other and just talk about different questions. So we'll have a short preach and then the preacher will ask some questions and give us discussion time. ⁓ And so it creates that environment where you're able to just bounce ideas off for one another, which I think was so amazing when I got here because I was like, that's what young adults are looking for.
they're not necessarily looking to be told this is right or this is wrong. They're looking for strict boundaries, but not just to be told that they want to understand it ⁓ and live it, experience it as well. And in doing that, you're able to hear different perspectives and see different people's points of views, which you wouldn't have opened or had your mind open to before, which is really good.
Sian Rees (23:32)
Wonderful.
Andrew Ollerton (23:34)
Yeah, what a great church, Sean, and a great conversation. Sounds like, you know, staying hungry, finding your satisfaction in the word was key for the individuals. But also I love the fact that they're the whole church is thinking of supportive ways, accountable ways to be encouraging everyone to engage with the Bible and apply it to everyday life. What's your experience been of that, Sean? You know, actually this is your church. What's it like when the community does that together?
Sian Rees (23:59)
Yeah, I think it's been really rich to be reading the Bible in community. In other words, we've all been fed from the same parts of the Bible at the same time. And then we've been able to keep one another sort of accountable and interested really in what we're engaging with. But Andrew, you're bringing a reflection from Acts, aren't you, that invites us to think a little bit more about this?
Andrew Ollerton (24:22)
Yeah, thanks, Sean. In the Book of Acts, we're given a window into how the early church formed disciples in a moment of growth and spiritual openness. You know, after the excitement of the day of Pentecost, there's a new leadership challenge. How do you turn this surge of interest into deep, resilient discipleship? And I think that's part of our task today. Luke, who wrote the book of Acts, gives us a profound answer. He says in chapter two, verse forty two they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching.
All the new converts, existing disciples, they devote it. That word really matters. This wasn't occasional engagement or passive exposure. It's something of a shared rhythm, a structured priority, the whole community being shaped around the scriptures. And crucially, it's led. You notice that the apostles don't leave this to chance or even to the Holy Spirit. They gather people themselves, they teach the scriptures, and they model how to understand and apply.
The story of God to everyday life. So it's not just information. This is formation. They're building people who can live from the scriptures. And by the time we get to Acts 6, we see that these growing demands in a growing church, competing needs, give the leaders a decision moment, you know, and they decide. We will Acts 6, as we the leader said, we will devote ourselves to prayer and the ministry of the word. In other words,
They organize the public life of the church and their own ministry to sh to ensure that scripture remains central. They protect it, they prioritize it, they refuse to let it be squeezed out by other good things. And those of us leading churches today, I think this should provoke some honest reflection for us in a busy, complex world where there's so many competing needs in the church environment, it's easy for the ministry of the word to become one priority amongst many.
Something we fit in rather than build around. But Acts is the opposite. The teaching of scripture is not an accessory, it's the engine of discipleship for the whole church. Our Sunday gatherings and teaching series carry more weight than perhaps we realise. They're not just moments of inspiration or encouragement, they're about formation, forming people by modelling how to read and engage and interpret the Bible.
So the question is not simply, are we preaching from the Bible, but are we intentionally equipping people to engage with the Bible for themselves, showing them on Sundays what they can do every day for themselves? I love the way we've seen City Church in Cardiff for doing this. A great church that I'm part of, Kingsgate Church in Peterborough, they're running a whole Bible series in order to equip the congregation very intentionally to have confidence and engage with the Bible.
Are we helping everyone see the big story of scripture? Not just isolated passages. Are we showing our workings as we communicate the Bible, showing not just the right answers, but how we got there so people feel they can handle it for themselves during the week? Increasingly, people are arriving with questions. Some have already been read reading and exploring the Bible for some time. They're curious, but they're unsure where to begin. So if we don't raise the level of Bible confidence in our churches,
We risk creating a gap between where the interest is growing and but the understanding is shallow. We need to close that gap. Acts shows us a better vision, a church where leaders take responsibility for forming people rooted in Scripture. But that's actually only part of the picture. You see, that's Acts two and Acts Six, but then in Acts eight, we see how this intentional community has formed individuals and their formation plays out in public life.
Philip, who was formed in the Jerusalem church post Pentecost, he then encounters an Ethiopian official, a thoughtful, curious man who's reading the prophet Isaiah on his commute home in his private chariot. He's engaged, he's curious, but he's struggling to make sense of what he's reading. And so Philip does something simple and yet powerful. He sits alongside him, begins with the very passage that the curious seeker is reading, and
And helps him see how the whole story of Scripture, including that Isaiah passage, points to Jesus. In other words, the public and intentional teaching, the formation of the Jerusalem church where Philip was raised, means that he's then ready to spill out into the everyday life, into onto the road with this Ethiopian man, and help him understand the Bible one-to-one. No matter who we are, we need to help people with the Bible. We need others to
Walk with us and journey with us, just like this Ethiopian dignitary needed help. And so in Acts two, we see the kind of intentional leadership that leads to Acts eight, where informally conversations can happen on the road and on the fly. Churches that thrive in the moment we're in them will hold these two together.
They will invest in Sundays, the public gatherings, the formal gatherings. They'll invest in rich biblical teaching, intentionally designed to build confidence amongst the congregation. And that will cultivate communities where there are conversations happening informally, during the week, small groups, friendships, people on the road, out in the big wide world, confident to share the Bible, to respond to honest questions and curious seekers. When these rhythms really take shape,
Across all ages, across the whole church, something shifts, right? The Bible becomes normal. It's shared, it's relevant, it's applied, less like a distant, complex, dusty book, and more like daily bread, something we return to again and again, trusting that God will speak to us through it and help us to share it with others on the road.
Sian Rees (30:20)
Andrew, thank you once again for challenging us with Scripture and showing us how it speaks today. We really hope that you've enjoyed this episode. Please do share it and subscribe if you haven't already.
Andrew Ollerton (30:34)
And don't forget to send us your questions for our upcoming QA episode. Send them to podcasts at BibleSociety.org.uk or go to our website biblesociety.org.uk forward slash questions. Until next time, goodbye.