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A very broad look at the history of sustainability and what it looks like now, from a curious perspective.
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Part 2 next week......
Part 2 next week......
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What is NATURE | PEOPLE | IDEAS?
Exploring the connection between Nature, People and the Ideas shaping our future.
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Meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own. The lamp just fell off the wall. Grow Harlem Brutland. More on her in a bit. I think I pronounced that wrong as well.
Speaker 1:That was, that was timing, wasn't it? How are we all? I'm gonna leave this in. Way more natural, which I kind of like. How's it going?
Speaker 1:I've just got back from Cornwall man to go and do a load of interviews. Love love the Cornish Coast. There is something spectacular and magical about it man. I should probably say actually episode one my name's Rob, nature people and ideas is what you're listening to. Very much welcome man.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure how many solo episodes I'm gonna do because I actually find it more awkward than I do interviewing people or just having a chat or conversation with whatever I'm recording. Although I do like them. I think there's something special about a solo episode where you can just chuck your headphones on and do whatever you got to do for an hour or so. I don't know, drive to work, all the cliched nonsense that people do. And it's kind of why this isn't filmed as well.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say this a few times because every time I say that I'm doing a podcast people always ask whether it's filmed or not. I think this should be listened to man, I really do. I think that I try to watch a few and I just think why am I watching two people have a conversation for an hour? It doesn't really bring anything else to it visually. I think you can do it for clips and stuff so that's obviously going to be something I'm gonna have to think about to try and get this a bit more popular, like using social media in all of its glory.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I'm already rambling. There's gonna be a lot of that. I got a dead squeaky chair as well. I'm not really, I'm not really accustomed to doing these inside a room. They're normally, they're normally in a lot more random places like barber shops out the back of my van out of someone else's van.
Speaker 1:Where else was another one I did? I was in a container very very recently, that'll probably be in a few weeks time that that guest is coming out. But yeah it's been interesting man. So my whole goal for this episode was to try to fully understand what sustainability is as a concept. So that means like break it down so one understandable to the average person, and two not ball achingly boring, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Because we've all, let's be fair, we've all heard the same shit from the same people. And then three is ultimately man, find positive solutions. And that I think this episode is going to be a bit too long, this will be like a two parter. So there'll be like the history of sustainability I guess, like a brief look at that, how it looks today, and then the ideas and actions that we can do for the future man, and then that will be probably part two of this. I don't know what this is going be called, I'm sure I'll find something along the way.
Speaker 1:Something fucking random that I end up saying. Right, so set the scene a little bit. Let's go straight into the history of sustainability. Take your mind back to 1700 just before the start of the industrial revolution, so sixty years prior to the steam engine and the industrial yarn weaving machine called a SPINNING JENNY. I can't go down every rabbit hole otherwise I'll be here for weeks more than I already have been.
Speaker 1:Honestly man, has taken me about four weeks to do this research and try and break it down into a way that I can really understand it. But the SPINNING JENNY will have her own podcast I'm sure. Effectively, it allowed cloth and fabric to be made at scale. Right? In our modern world, this doesn't really seem that innovative.
Speaker 1:Like, they don't really seem like groundbreaking technologies or even inventions, but it was a very different time. Right? We're talking one hundred and fifty years prior to the light bulb. London being the biggest city in Europe at just half a million. Now imagine a world where there's cobbled streets, horse drawn carriages, candlelight, open sewers, no real factories really, and no like established banking system, but timber and lots of it.
Speaker 1:Everywhere you looked was sort of houses, boats, fuel, basically all infrastructure worldwide where possible it would have been timber, and this is where the term sustainability first came about. It's the first real recording of what we consider that to be modernized if you know what I mean. There was a fella called Hans Karl here we go. There's a fella called Hans Karlowicz. He was from a relatively wealthy family in Germany, was an accountant and a mining administrator, so at the height of his career there was a crisis in the mining sector at that time.
Speaker 1:Not due to the materials being mined yet, but it was more the structure of the timber within the mines that was in shortage. So effectively what had happened is we'd felled so many of the forests that were close to these mines that it almost became impossible to then to then support them structurally. Do know what I'm saying? So such a large amount of woodland got felled effectively. A lot of the mining industry went bankrupt, And he did write a book about this and it was a sort of a pioneering effort, especially in those times.
Speaker 1:He promoted and sort of championed the replanting of trees so timber could be continuous. And in the book it's sort of where we get the first modern turn of sustainability, so you can thank him. You can bear like bear in mind in those times it was a very different time and that would have been seen as, I don't know, very out there, the very alternative ways of thinking. And there is an irony here because the term sustainability came fifty ish years before the start of the industrial revolution. So we saw the problem and we fucking lit the fuse man.
Speaker 1:So with the invention of the steam engine and yarn weaver right, the world changed and it changed quicker than it ever had. From 1760 to 1980, so just over two hundred years, the world went from predominantly manual labor to machine led production, like transportation of goods and people man moving faster than anyone thought possible. Like the economy's booming, iron becoming the most used metal in the world, you see modern infrastructure that we still have today like the sewer systems, communication networks. I mean think of that right, two hundred years we didn't even have fucking electricity and now we've got portable communication devices in our pocket turned on at all times. I mean flying went from something conceived never possible to having an airport in most cities.
Speaker 1:Fuck me we went to the moon! Do you know what I mean? You get the point. Shitting in a hole to space exploration. Right?
Speaker 1:That that's pretty much what happened in just two and just over two hundred years. To get our heads around that is it's wild what's happening because obviously we don't know anyone still alive that that sort of lived it to tell the tale. So for us it is just history. And it is hard to not sound like a twat here right because the issue that I've always had with environmental work is it's easy to point fingers at the problem but still reap the rewards of its output. I mean I'm sitting here recording this surrounded by technology on a laptop with the potential for millions to listen.
Speaker 1:Share it with a friend guys, more on that in a bit, but you get the point in it, the potential too, while also about to slate the same actions that without them this would never have been possible man, so the irony isn't lost on me man believe me. With that in mind, if we think in terms of environmental impact or why the planet's on its ass, the biggest issue we have is the rate in which we expanded. Not only in production, right, but in population. I mean we went from 8,000,000 to 40,000,000 in The UK from 1,700 to 1,900. Like, that's a that's a massive increase, man.
Speaker 1:The chart says it all. It literally, it just goes off into the stratosphere. Looks like someone's heart rate taking a pill, man. Do you know what I mean? Factors such as like massive improvements in agriculture resulting in more food, economic growth for higher standards of living, falling death rates, I mean we got urbanized, mass urbanization.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm speaking predominantly here about The UK, but the same is true for all over Europe and the rest of the world. They were expanding. Britain sort of remained at the heart of the industrial revolution, but, like, Russia, China, The Middle East, The Americas, all expanding, man. And I'm obviously gonna keep this in line with sustainability aspects, otherwise, I'd ramble on here forever about what happened, much of it horrific within that time period man, but maybe that's a page for another day So we can sort of understand now where we are right? In those two hundred years a lot of shit happened.
Speaker 1:Fast forward now to the 1980s right? And this is where the first emergence of sustainability came in as a topic in politics and economics. So there was a lady called Gro Harlan Brutland, the one that I mentioned at the start of this podcast, youngest Norwegian prime minister at the time, she was age 41, And Brutland she's given us the most widely cited definition, the one that I started with, and I'll say it again, so it's meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. This comes from the United Nations Brooklyn Commission, also known as our common future right, it was published in 1987, putting the term sustainability on the map. It wasn't the first to do so, obviously there were other issues, there were other sorry organisations or political movements that were talking about it, environmental activism and conservation as such.
Speaker 1:The difference was is this essentially looked at human growth and economy and the environmental impact it was having all under one roof right, so it was all first to be acknowledged as to be connected if you like. Effectively what it did is it put sustainability on the map right, and in turn in the minds of like ordinary people. So terms like fossil fuels, global warming, all of these things were popping up. The dominoes kept falling obviously just because we're aware of the problem doesn't mean that we try to actively solve it instantly, we didn't. So these terms kept popping up which I'm sure everyone's aware of but just for the sake of doing this I will go through it.
Speaker 1:The terms global warming, this increases the global temperature. Again, not trying to teach you to suck eggs, it can get confusing. And it fucking will. It will get confusing. So climate change.
Speaker 1:This covers the broader issues created by the warming, but also the effect it's having itself. Right? Climate change, global warming, cool. What's happening? What's the main cause?
Speaker 1:So take your mind back to the invention of the steam engine and JENNY spinning about. These are the reasons effectively why this has come on such a speed. So so much of our growth has come from the extraction of burning fossil fuels, but it's also been the main contribution factor to climate change. Right? That in very very simple terms, because it can get complicated very quickly, we burn fossil fuels which are hundreds of million years old, sorry, 100,000,000 fuck me.
Speaker 1:Which are hundreds of million years fossilized plants and organisms that have turned into what we call today as coal, oil, and gas. I mean, we've relied on these things for pretty much everything we do in the modern era. From cars to houses, power to food, we produce more than we need, man, but what a co like, at what cost? But Rob, what fossilized fuel's got to do with my jacket potato? I understand and, like, I get it, but what the fuck do you think is powering your oven and the ability for the jacket potato to land in a supermarket for you to pick it up and put it on your plate and put it in the oven?
Speaker 1:I had an argument about that with someone the other day, didn't go down well had to include it. I also I'm frightfully aware that I'm making a few mistakes while talking man, but I just I think it's a bit more it's a bit more raw in it, and I I kind of like that. So again, don't see this as imperfection, see this as a non intentional fuck up that we're gonna leave in for the sake of originality. Right anyway, where was I? Where were we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you get it, we're burning a lot of fossil fuels right? So when it's burned it releases something called a greenhouse gas and that's pretty much what it says on the tin. Effectively it's creating a cover around the planet like a like a greenhouse right, you know, really pushing the boat out here, and when the sunlight gets through it finds it hard again to escape right, so it's continuously warming. And this has resulted in what we see today with like higher ocean temperatures affecting aquatic animal and plant life, and then under the waves and above the waves we see what's happening is there's higher temperatures all over the shop right. To really drive this point home for thousands of years the earth barely shifted 0.2 of a degree just in the space from 2013 to 2023 it went up 1.19 on average.
Speaker 1:Like that is astronomical in regards to how quick things are changing. And all this result is obvious, it results in mad weather like we've seen it, mean I think there's been there's been higher temperatures for the last decade than any other time, we see it in our daily lives man, from The UK to Australia, wildfires, droughts, storms, completely unpredictable weather patterns. All that's broken into very simple terms so next time that you have a fucking pint down the pub and someone has a bit of a chat about global warming, you got a little bit of a foundation. So to recap right, we still think everything's replaceable and our growth is at the consequence of global issues but many of us can't see it. Cool.
Speaker 1:Fuck me how what are we on here? I feel like I'm covering a lot of ground. What are we on fifteen minutes? Jesus Christ right. I was hoping this would be a bit longer, I don't even know how long this is gonna be.
Speaker 1:We'll see how it goes. Right today's world, let's have a look at that then. So what does today's world look like in real terms? From an academic perspective if we were looking at sustainability, you've got three pillars right? Social sustainability, environmental sustainability, and economic sustainability.
Speaker 1:So the social aspect is people, so think humanitarian, equality, justice, how well does your day feel on a day to day basis? The environmental sustainability, the thing we're gonna really focus on, planet. What are the limits of our planet? Economic sustainability? How well does the system that we live in function?
Speaker 1:You could sit here for days to go back and forth around these areas, but I'll stick to the fundamentals I think just for the ease of listening, and one of the biggest issues is that these three pillars do not naturally work in harmony. I'll make a story out of it. Right? So meet John. Right?
Speaker 1:Social sustainability. Social progress often increases resource use. Right? So the social side of it. Good job.
Speaker 1:Fucking he's living the dream. Nice house. Nice car. His day to day feels alright. Economic sustainability, right?
Speaker 1:It relies on growth and extraction, so relies on shit happening. So plenty of jobs about, plenty of money in the pocket, there's an there's a there's a booming economy quote unquote. Environmental sustainability, this demands restraint. So imagine three circles this would make it easier and I'll leave this as a post on Instagram just to sort of really get your head around it. You've got three circles right?
Speaker 1:The biggest circle is the environment in descending order. Inside that large circle is something we call social and inside that social circle we have another smaller circle called the economy. Everything in our world is made from natural cells. Nothing can have any physical structure without it, but without that structure you cannot have a functioning society and that means you can't have an economy. Bottom line, with a failing society and a non existent economy.
Speaker 1:The elephant in the room, as history suggests, is that when there's been tension between the environment and the two other pillars, the environment usually loses. Now that we understand the problem right, let's look at how this looks in real time, and again this is focused predominantly on the environmental sustainability aspects of it all right. The truth is in sustainability for us in 2026, at the time of making this, it looks like targets, promises, reports. Breaking it down into like three digestible areas, government, business, individuals. Governments are all about long term commitments and goals.
Speaker 1:I'm not about to get political, but you fucking understand what I'm saying. So net zero was like the most common thing that came up, but we'll look into more of that in in a in a bit. They always obviously, being the government, they always have these massive ideas and road maps, but it's all just targets. And the distance is so far in the future that it's sort of like, well, mate, we suck. We kinda need to sort it now.
Speaker 1:Do Do you know what I mean? For businesses they have implemented the legalization like the environmental legalization, so things like waste management, energy efficiency. On the surface all these look like practical measures right? But businesses will measure, they'll announce, they'll market these efforts, And while some of them are genuine, it's really not hard for a bit I mean, you've been about enough man, you'll know what I'm on about here, but it's not hard for a business to portray a chosen image. Right?
Speaker 1:The main issue is is that businesses are reporting the impact they're having, but it isn't the same as reducing it. So just because they're saying something doesn't mean that they're doing it. And then there's us. Right? So the individuals.
Speaker 1:Terms to, like, to influence our behavior, like reduce, reuse, recycle, vote with your wallet, carbon footprints, more on that in a bit. They're all great ways to show individual efforts. Right? But in my opinion, it's vital to be part of a greater system other than yourself to truly achieve the work that's needed. So to tie all this together then, we'll look at net zero.
Speaker 1:Now this is a fucking hot topic for a lot of people, I have I think I spent the majority of time on this. Put extremely simply, this means reducing our carbon emissions to a point that nature and other measures can absorb it, leaving zero in the atmosphere. Humans have burned too many fossil fuels which release greenhouse gases that we just spoke about and some get trapped in the atmosphere that creates a blanket warming it up right? We've done too much shit, we've burned too much of it. So the goal of net zero is for it not to go above 1.5 post industrial levels.
Speaker 1:Now at the time of writing this there's obvious speculation, massive diverse opinion, clear fucking disagreement of what Nero, sorry, what Not Zero represents. Fucking Not Zero. Jesus, man. I didn't think it would be this hard to do this podcast. Absolutely flagging it.
Speaker 1:Again, I'm gonna leave it in because it's real because a well polished one. I don't know. Basically, the biggest problem is that it's it's expected in The UK at least we're gonna have to spend trillions of pounds at the at the taxpayer's expense in order to reach our goals, which will have its biggest impacts on its poorest people, undoubtedly. Right? In The UK, we already have some of the highest energy prices in the world.
Speaker 1:Another argument is that while so many are doing all they can and others are doing nothing at all, you know, mean, just gets thrown about. Depending on what report you read, article, whatever influencer you fucking listen to, it all just gets messy. Right? The fact is is that we need to stop producing so many greenhouse gases. We're already seeing the effects of it through unpredictable weather patterns like failing crops.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've said it all before. Right? I don't need to preach to the choir here. But the one thing is is that no one can agree on the methods in which we do it. Who needs actions when you've got words?
Speaker 1:To quote a mister plan b 2006 groundbreaking album for The UK scene actually if if you're into UK hip hop on a side note. But Rome weren't built in a day right? But someone's gotta turn on the fucking cement mixer to get things done. So who controls the narrative? There's a term thrown about a lot called greenwashing.
Speaker 1:In a nutshell, it's a company, organization, or human promoting itself as doing more for the environment than they actually are. I mean I could fit into that fucking category but I'm just trying to learn as I'm sure I know everyone else is right? But I don't know, an example of this would be what did I walk past the other day right? There's like there's a mister muscle bottle which is effectively liquid death pouring into the ocean and it's like on the side of it in like big blue like wow letters is like we use 30% recycled plastic for the bottle. Fuck off.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? Like I I just it fuck it. It drives me insane. Why do they do it? Multiple reasons.
Speaker 1:Financial benefits, public pressure to change. Like, how do they do it? I mean, it's turning moles into mountains effectively, ain't it? It's making them almost insignificant changes and describing it as groundbreaking. False advertising.
Speaker 1:You may think it's illegal, but there's so many examples where it isn't. Is it harmless? I don't know. Like, on one level, it's manipulating trust and opinion, and on another level, I guess it's it's directly slowing down the urgent action in the name of personal interest. Do know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Don't be a cunt. And what's mad is to turn it on its head again, there are companies out there that are doing amazing work but they won't report it or they won't even promote it because it's like due to possible ridicule and like pressure. Like companies doing solid environmental work don't announce it due to competitors or consumers sort of picking it apart to such a level that they find fault they'd rather just stay in silence. Which is completely another problem because you're removing the motivation and inspiration for others to do it as well. It gets really messy man.
Speaker 1:We have the choice and the, like the the money in the pocket in order to buy the right product, buy less of it, or, like, even recycle at every given chance we have. Yes. The largest environmental impact isn't done by a single person. It's Rather, it's a collection of people who are a part of a system wider than ourselves. Right?
Speaker 1:So food, energy, transport, we are we're born into these systems and largely we can't avoid it. Take your read back to when I said about carbon footprints, We've all heard of the term, but put simply, it's a measure of how much carbon in each individual creates. Talking about greenwashing, carbon footprint was popularised by BP, so British Petroleum, I'm sure we've all driven past the garages and whatever, in the early 2000s, right, is a subtle way to move the responsibility from large oil companies to the consumer. And it worked. The point I'm trying to make here is is that, yes, we are all a part of these larger systems, but we can choose to switch the light bulbs, we can't choose the energy grid.
Speaker 1:We can choose the environmentally friendly cut, but we can't choose the fucking the way in which the company chooses to get the beam to us. You get the point here. I'm really going for it, man. If you wanna say anything away from what I've said so far and you think, well, Kimmy's a knob head. I'm never listening to it again.
Speaker 1:Take this away. Our individual behavior is extremely important as part of a collective movement to change the systems themselves. You know what I'm saying? It's it's been a massive part of my life, and I can't believe it's it's spinning over into this, man. But it it does from the research it's the only way that we really can create the the change is by changing perception and also coming together.
Speaker 1:So what does tomorrow look like? I guess in a way that let's just drop the bullshit here for a second and let's pretend like a, perfect future doesn't exist because let's be fair it's subjective to say the least. When we think about a more sustainable world we need to think in more like in more terms of what we're willing to sacrifice in order to protect the planet that we have. Do you know what I mean? Now as I mentioned earlier with the three pillars like our social economic growth it has to alter in order to make room for nature.
Speaker 1:So we need to think about it, like what are the consequences of the choices we're making as a global society, and if we're brutally honest, like what do we consider as enough? If we think in terms of ethics over abundance, greed, compassion, convenience, because at the end of the day, how much is enough man? Like there plenty of people in this world with next to nothing that are happier than people that are stepping onto a multi million pound jet listening to the podcast. So what can we do then? Without the bullshit, I mean, I started this off with a promise that I'd I'd give practical actions, and I think I'm gonna do a whole another podcast on this.
Speaker 1:Right? But after many hours and days and weeks of research it's taken me to do this, the journey I went on wasn't the one I expected to, and furthermore, the actions aren't the ones I expected to find. The first action we can take is to remove the guilt we pressure we feel. Like, no individual is solely gonna fucking carry the responsibility of solving the planet's crisis. Right?
Speaker 1:I myself, I can't even watch, like, pro like, David Attenborough, for example, anymore without Tyrion Erpohl feeling, like, an overwhelming sense of guilt. But that does have to change man, because I don't know, once you actually start doing something, becoming a part of a solution not just observing the problem. You know what I mean? And the second is to choose to be part of something pushing the systemic change, with individual actions. The choices we make as individuals have a powerful collective like I've said right, but we can really vote with our wallets.
Speaker 1:We forget there's power in numbers man, mean take the big four supermarkets right? So I mean if you're not from The UK this is a term that we use to see the biggest sort of market share within the top four supermarkets. At current I think it's Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda's, Aldi. And if we collectively choose to not shop at these supermarkets unless they remove all single use packaging and pay a decent wage to the farmers without fucking putting the prices on us, then they'd have to listen and they'd have to change. They'd be bankrupt within a week.
Speaker 1:But again, that is that a is that a metropolis as a society? The third the third is make some noise. Like, this is exactly why I'm choosing to build nature, people, and ideas. Like, we all have a power to do this. There's that geezer called, Gary's Economics at the moment.
Speaker 1:He's pushing huge, huge numbers through, like, the political circles to for people to vote with their ideas and to vote with their voice. Right? So he's he's actively encouraging people to fucking, like, create accounts, make noise around the economic crisis, and and to push taxes on wealthier people. And that's just obviously, that's outside this is the economic side of things, but, like, that's just someone that's willing that's that's willing to put themselves out there and also to to tell other people to to fucking make some noise, man. And and it it like, it can it can do it.
Speaker 1:Just don't piss off the ordinary working people by protesting in the middle of a fucking road. Do know what mean? There's ambulances and shit to get to. People have to people have to get to their jobs, man, or or they'll lose their their job and their house. Like, don't piss off the exact people that you want on your side.
Speaker 1:And I say that I say that lightly, but but with intention. And I guess lastly, what do I do with this type of research, man? Like, what who am I? I am fucking no one. Like, I am I'm just I'm doing what everyone else does, which is effectively regurgitate information.
Speaker 1:Just because I do this doesn't mean that I'm any more intelligent or any more academic or anything than any anyone else. And I mean that with a sense of the whole project for nature, people, and ideas is for me to understand it better as well on, like, on a selfish basis. I'm I'm in no way promoting any ideology that anyone else has. I'm just trying to fucking help, and I think that's the purity of it. I've written some mad ending speech, man, but I don't really think it's needed.
Speaker 1:I think that I hope, at least, that I've I've put across my intentions here, and I kinda hope that you've got a a block formation of how sustainability looks and then how we view it today. And this has been the most compressed type of podcast I could produce without it going overly complicated, number one. And number two, me being out my depth because this this sort of field is is complex, man. And this is also why I hope to get people on, experts, like anyone that can that can sort of broaden my horizons and that of the listener I. E.
Speaker 1:You, and sort of, I don't know, generate some positive change, positive ideas. That's the beauty of it. What are we on? How long was that? Because that was thirty minutes exactly.
Speaker 1:That took me a while man. I was hoping for a forty five to an hour, but I don't know. I reckon I'll listen to this and I'll definitely get things wrong. But if you do wanna back like a, I don't know, an original creator, someone that's actually trying to push things, please share it with your mates because other than me spending thousands on ads and filming myself doing swatty shit, There's no real way that a podcast like this can grow because it is organic, and that's exactly what it's supposed to be because my intention for it is to create a community of like minded people, man. So, yeah, the best thing you can do if you do if you did enjoy whatever the fuck this was is to, is is is to share it with your mates.
Speaker 1:And this all grew out of me looking at a me looking at a coastline and wondering if I could accomplish it and then finding that nature effectively saved me. So I, in a way, find this a duty that I I help. And that may seem a bit fucking soppy, and I know that I take the piss a lot. Well, you mean, I don't even know what this was, really. But I hope you enjoyed it, and I I sincerely hope that it's helped or it's given you a little bit of escapism, man.
Speaker 1:So I'm not gonna ramble on, but big love. Again, jump on to Just Rob Mate at Just Rob Mate on Instagram. I don't use many other things. I think I've got I've got a TikTok, but I don't really use it. I use it as a promotional thing, man.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, jump over there and let me know that you're listening because the date is gonna be few and far between. I can't imagine many will. I think that, fuck me, it's gonna take me fucking five years in order to in order to get to where I need to be, I think, or to get to where the message needs to be. And I'm gonna love listening back to this one and being like, cool. This is where we started.
Speaker 1:So if you were here from the start or you're listening from the future, big love man.