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DO IT TODAY is a podcast hosted by Kara Cutruzzula, who asks friends and notable figures across creative industries about what they're doing that day—and how they're going to do it. It's an up close look at process and practice, a reminder for you to do your most meaningful work, and a mini dose of encouragement in 20 minutes or less.
Kara Cutruzzula: Hi everyone.
Welcome to Do It Today.
I'm Kara Cutruzzula, and today I'm talking
with Sarah Wordsworth, who is a musical
storyteller who has created shows for
Broadway television, arenas, cruise ships,
and theme parks all around the world.
She's the co-writer and creator of
In Transit, Broadway's first acapella
musical, and has written multiple
shows and experiences for Disney,
including adaptations of Frozen
Beauty and the Beast, the Little
Mermaid, finding Nemo and Aladdin.
That's.
A dream job right there.
Sarah's also just incredibly
generous, kind and optimistic, and
I've really learned a lot from her.
So That was a big list, Sarah,
What are you doing today?
Day?
Sara Wordsworth: Good morning.
first of all, I'm so happy to be here.
I'm so happy to talk to you.
what am I doing today?
Oh my gosh.
I always say like, I live a lifetime
it seems, by 9:00 AM every day.
cause I'm an early riser.
I'm one of those like morning people who
doesn't have to work at being a morning
person, which I'm very grateful for.
But this backfires in the evening.
but it's easy for me to get up and
get things done in the morning.
Some of those things I have
to do, some I just want to do.
But, um, I got up at about four today, I
would've liked to have slept in longer,
but I had some things in my mind and I
went to bed kind of early last night,
so, So I got some things done, and
then got my daughter up for school.
Uh, made her some breakfast,
took her to school.
Then I volunteered at the school.
We're having a book sale
for her elementary school.
So I collected and organized some
books then I met with the, School
music teacher, because I'm gonna
write a song for the fifth grade
graduation, or at least a parody.
and then I ran home.
' I like to do that.
I like to wear my running clothes to
school because then I can't get out of it.
I have to get home.
And the easiest way is by foot.
So here I am.
I haven't showered yet though,
Kara I have not figured out that.
Kara Cutruzzula: I feel like I really
need to clarify just for everyone that
it is 10:05 AM right now, and I am, I
am stuck on the, you just had an entire.
Workday I mean, you're not kidding
when you said you had a whole
life before 9:00 AM I never really
knew what that meant though.
so whenever you said you got
stuff done, at 4:00 AM like were
you working on, on work stuff?
cause what is your brain like
that early in the morning?
I wouldn't know.
Sara Wordsworth: Um, I
wouldn't know either.
I have no idea what it's like.
I try to meet my brain where it is.
I mean, I try to sleep until six or so.
I set my alarm for seven.
I haven't used an alarm in years, but.
Kara Cutruzzula: what?
my
Sara Wordsworth: I don't use an alarm.
I mean, Kara, I think some of this
is anxiety, but I have a lot of
challenges right now with elder care.
Both my husband's parents
and mine are all really ill.
And you know, this was not something that
was in my life to have to be this sandwich
of I've got this young child, I've got,
all these parents that need attention.
Are dying and I'm holding
on to work for dear life.
so I think that when I wake up early,
I try to do things because I know when
the day goes on, it will get harder to
get anything done for myself, you know?
the phone doesn't ring at that time.
Emails don't come in.
Scheduling meetings doesn't happen,
My daughter's not up either,
which once she's up, it's full
attention and I'm glad to give it,
but I have to have some hours to myself.
So even if they're not the most ideal
hours, Nobody needs me at that time
except me, And so I'm exhausted all
the time, but I can better deal with
the tough things in my day if I've had
time to myself, that's when I get it.
We all need that.
We all have to have our own time.
So, you know, in those 4:00 AM times,
sometimes I'm just doing my nails.
It's like, 'cause I know I'm not
gonna be able to do that later
Kara Cutruzzula: Right.
Uninterrupted space.
Sara Wordsworth: And today I had him
on my mind that I'm traveling tomorrow.
I'm going up to Toronto just
for two nights, for work.
And I have a lot to do there
in a very short amount of time.
So I was trying to organize my thoughts
for that so I could be super efficient.
But when I'm gone, my husband
is just like, he's super dad.
He is Superman.
He can handle it.
But there's a lot of things I like to
organize, for him and for my daughter.
So that can all go smoothly
when I'm out of town.
And so I did a lot of that stuff.
Kara Cutruzzula: And then just kind of
dive in, take Chelsea to work, maybe run
home, which I, I wanna also point that
kind of ingenious hack out, which is
just like wear, you're running clothes
somewhere because then you're like,
if I don't run, this is embarrassing.
I have to go home.
And they're.
Totally unused.
So you kind of have to like get
yourself to that next destination.
Is that the way you organize that
morning, drop off part of your life?
Sara Wordsworth: Yeah, I mean, well
first of all, I think it's hilarious
'cause you said take Chelsea to work.
And I'm like,
Kara Cutruzzula: Oh, I
Sara Wordsworth: come to work too.
I mean, we're all just beginning our day.
Kara Cutruzzula: It's true.
She's, uh, clocking in.
Sara Wordsworth: Yeah, she's, we're all
clocking in, in some way, aren't we?
if I don't exercise early in
the day, it doesn't happen.
I don't love it enough.
I'll be honest, my
husband's really good at it.
Like, he loves going to the gym.
He'll do it anytime in his day.
He has time and he makes
sure, that he does it.
if it passes me by, I'm just
like, Nope, not happening today.
So I force myself to exercise in the
morning 'cause that's when I'm the
most motivated and logistically I have
to get home from school, drop off we
live a certain amount of blocks away.
It is either a half an hour walk or
a healthy run and I add a little on.
Kara Cutruzzula: So when you're running,
do you listen to anything in particular
or are you a head phoneless runner?
Sara Wordsworth: no, I'm always listening
to something and I'm such a slow
runner that I can also talk when I run.
So I make a lot of phone calls,
you know, I'll call my mother.
Or check in with my husband like
I did this morning because we were
both so busy and I'm like, this
is the time that we can catch up.
So I called him, but most of the time I'm
listening to a podcast, I start projects
with a massive amount of research always.
And podcasts are my favorite
way to get that research.
because it's really efficient.
I'm always moving around the city.
I always have a lot of commuting time.
I often am working.
I'm running, which doesn't
sound relaxing, but it is.
It gets my creative juices flowing to
listen to other people talking about
whatever topic I need to write about.
Kara Cutruzzula: how do you
structure that part of research?
Because research can be endless, as we all
Sara Wordsworth: I know that's right.
you know, often, like if I know
there's a topic I need to learn about,
Or just immerse myself in, I will
choose a bunch of podcasts that look
good and download them to my phone
so that I have them at the ready.
And if something's not giving
me what I need, I just move on
to the next one in that moment.
and if there's something that I need to
remember later, I don't trust my brain, so
I do a voice memo And then later when I
finally have finished all of this morning
madness, Sit down to do the actual work.
I can then reference all those
notes and the things I've been
thinking about and all that.
Kara Cutruzzula: It sounds like
your day is sort of split up into
a couple of different segments, the
morning is an entire day and then
now you're transitioning during
everyone's normal working hours.
To what?
Like what will the next
couple of hours hold for you?
Sara Wordsworth: today's a lot
of like meetings about work.
but I will say like since I became
a mom and my daughter's 10, my
whole thing shifted earlier because
I wanna be completely available in
the afterschool and evening hours.
and because I get up so early
that I'm less productive
creatively as the day goes on.
so I don't really do creative
heavy lifting at night.
or even in the late afternoon
or evening if I can help it.
I have a meeting about like, with my
director in Toronto that's working on
this Disney project with me, so that
we can really get our ducks in a row
with our limited time that we'll have
together what we both wanna accomplish.
So we're gonna do a
planning meeting for that.
I'm gonna run down to the B M
I workshop, not physically run.
I'm gonna take the subway there,
although I've been known to do it.
I will go to B m I today, to the
Musical Theater Writers workshop, but
unfortunately I can't stay the whole time.
Because my husband is in rehearsal for
something, so I need to get back uptown
and then pick up my daughter from a piano
lesson, and then I'm on tonight for,
dinner and homework and all that stuff.
Kara Cutruzzula: You mentioned that
you're gonna pop down to the B M I
workshop can you explain a little bit
about, what it is and, and your role
there and, and what it means to you?
Sara Wordsworth: Sure.
the official name is the B m i Layman
Eng Musical Theater Writers Workshop.
I've been a member since 2005.
I started as a lyricist there.
It is a completely free training program
in musical theater writing, uh, with a
couple of different sections and levels.
I'm also involved with a
book writer's workshop there.
At some point during my membership,
they asked me if I would transition
and serve on the steering committee.
and I also teach a lot of the classes.
so BMI's been in my life for a long time.
It is my motivation, it
is my artistic community.
It is a place where I feel like I can give
back to early career writers I give the B
m I workshop a lot of credit for the fact
that I'm able to be a professional writer.
I'm very grateful for it.
Kara Cutruzzula: I don't know if I told
you this, but I wrote about this in
my motivational journal, do It Today,
which is what this podcast is sort
of named for and, and based off of.
But during the auditions for b m i,
you have to go up and like recite your
lyrics or play your music in front of
a table with the steering committee.
I wrote about being just
like scared out of my mind.
I didn't know what I was doing.
Everyone was really scared.
Like you have to go up and literally read.
what you've written to, to know music.
Sara Wordsworth: it,
is scary.
I mean, we are not scary, but
I was scared when I auditioned.
Kara Cutruzzula: that moment I think
back to it a lot because it reminds
me of taking that risk and, going
beyond what you think you actually
can do and doing something outside
of your comfort zone and, I was just
wondering if you find yourself in those
situations, how you sort of react.
Do you find yourself in those
positions where you feel like
you're out of your comfort zone now?
Sara Wordsworth: I do, and what's really
weird is that the older I get, the
more I find myself in those situations.
You know?
Or at least I don't have the, not that
I don't have the confidence that I
did as a younger creative person, but.
I just have to force
myself more to take a risk.
And it should be the
other way around, right?
It should be like, oh, I've been able
to accomplish this, this, and this.
But um, I have to force myself to,
work through those uncomfortable
situations more than I did.
I think, I have no idea why that is.
Kara Cutruzzula: I don't know, is it a
sort of like losing a little bit of that
nerve, I think, or, or like the naivete
whenever we were, you know, 22 and just
like, I'll do anything and I don't care.
Sara Wordsworth: for me.
That's definitely.
True.
I mean, with musical theater writing,
my journey, what's interesting
is that it wasn't the thing that
I had to do or I was gonna die.
for me, that was performing,
you know, I was a performer.
I went to school as a, acting major,
and I, was convinced that, you know, of
course, like many young performers, it
was like, I must be in a Broadway show.
Like, I have to do that in my life.
and I always wrote on the side.
So when I.
began writing more and when I, and
when writing started to seem to go
well for me or somebody wanted to
actually pay me to do it, it all seemed
like a non-pressure gift at the time.
You know, it was like, okay, yeah,
that's kooky, but I'll do that.
whereas I always had a lot of
nerves about my performing career
'cause I so badly wanted to do that.
I think what's happening is now
that I'm mostly a writer, There
are things I want to do with it.
So the stakes feel higher in that way.
But in my early writing career,
it was just like, yeah, this
is, this is crazy, but I'll try.
Isn't it nice if we could
just keep a little of that?
Kara Cutruzzula: I was wondering if we
could talk about that Julia Cameron quote.
I don't know if you have it near
you, but you've shared it before.
Sara Wordsworth: I sure do
I have my laptop and I'm taking a walk to
my mirror because that's where I keep it.
okay.
Here it is.
Kara Cutruzzula: Hit us with a Julia
Cameron quote from the Artist's Way.
' it's like a sonic boom.
Sara Wordsworth: Yes,
this is, this is so fun.
there will be many times when we won't
look good to ourselves or anyone else.
We need to stop demanding that we do.
It is impossible to get better
and look good at the same time.
Remember that in order to
recover as an artist, you must
be willing to be a bad artist.
Give yourself permission to be a beginner
by being willing to be a bad artist.
You have a chance to be an artist,
and perhaps over time a very good one.
When I make this point in teaching,
I'm met by instant defensive hostility.
But do you know how old I will be by
the time I really learned to play the
piano, act paint, write a decent play.
Yes, the same age you
will be if you don't.
So let's start.
Kara Cutruzzula: It is so good and
so true, but also why does being
a bad artist have to hurt so much?
Sara Wordsworth: It hurts so much.
Kara Cutruzzula: What
does that mean to you?
That quote?
Sara Wordsworth: you know, it's
funny because I came across this
quote again when I was very young.
You know, sort of, I came across
Julia Cameron in the artist's
way, my senior year of college.
at the time I was like, oh, yes,
this all makes a lot of sense to me.
And I would say that book for me was very
influential with the courage to, try.
The courage to keep going.
The courage for me, I needed a
lot of courage to not, take a
full-time job and to risk everything
and try to figure all that out.
but the age stuff she's talking about
really resonates so much more Now,
it's this kick I was telling you
about that I have to give myself, it's
true that you will be the same age.
If you don't try it, so
you may as well try it.
again, back to the stakes thing,
like in my twenties, I wasn't also
attempting to save for college
for a kid, you know, it was just me
just trying to pay my own bills, it all
feels like the decisions I make now,
affect this other person and my family.
And, the risks that I take, I have to.
I ask all the time if they're worth it.
So I, I find this quote really
helpful because, there are still
some things that I'd like to do
and that I think I'm scared to do.
I, I give this quote also at the
beginning of the B M I workshop when I
teach my second year course, because I
want people to know in the beginning,
I don't know about being a bad artist,
but we have to allow ourselves to be
vulnerable in front of people and.
To present a draft that isn't great
and we have to feel okay about that
because you can't get to a great draft
until you show someone a not so great
draft, and get some feedback on it.
Kara Cutruzzula: How do
you sort of navigate.
Notes in that way, or feedback,
especially if feedback might be
something that you don't agree with,
Sara Wordsworth: You know, it
really depends what I'm working on.
I think because I do some commission
work and you have to sort of
understand that game, you know, if
it's work for hire and you are being
paid to write something first of
all, there is going to be feedback.
Especially, I write a lot of, things
based on really famous ip, intellectual
property, you know, whether that's
for Disney or for something else.
I adapt books.
You know that you are going to get some
feedback, whether it's from a franchise,
whether it's from a product team or a lots
of creative people giving you feedback.
Movie, studio, whatever it is.
I don't take the feedback personally in
those cases, or at least I try not to.
I take it as a gift.
It's like, yes, I want to do
a good job here, you know?
So, as a list maker, I write it all
down, all of it, every bit of it.
I like to put those little bubbles
in my notes section, you know, so
I can check 'em off if I do it.
but I try to take it in if it's
my personal work, something
that's like, this is the thing,
I must say feedback's harder.
It just is, because you take it
more personally or at least I
do, but I also feel like taking
feedback is a part of collaboration.
And you get better at it.
Just like, I think you get better
at collaboration, the more you do.
We aren't, we aren't born natural
collaborators and it can be shameful
when you go to present a song,
say, in the Be On My Workshop.
I mean, I, I've been there, I was a
student in that workshop for years.
And it can feel very shameful, but
if you can reframe it as a gif.
To make your work better.
That's helpful.
Kara Cutruzzula: is so interesting.
Yeah.
I hadn't thought of it as, shameful,
even though that's the exact feeling.
It's not just, brutal, or, oh, I don't
agree, but it feels like I risked
something or I was vulnerable and then
I'm being taken apart in some kind of way.
It's a very Brene Brown version
of, of what, uh, what goes on.
But, I appreciate that perspective on it.
are there any rules for
collaboration that you've, think are.
Kind of unbreakable or that you
really try to respect in your
own collaborative relationships.
Sara Wordsworth: So many I feel, I feel.
Very strongly about collaboration
and a mutual respect and work ethic.
but I definitely have preferences
in collaborative situations and
I try to be a good collaborator.
and I also will say Most writers love
writing, like they love, like, I'm gonna
sit by myself now and I'm gonna write.
That is the least favorite part
of my job is sitting by myself.
And I will always say that I love being in
a room with someone else with great ideas.
And I love the energy of
bouncing off of each other.
I just, if I'm forced to write by myself,
and I often am because I've been hired to
do some job, I just cannot wait to get in
the room with others as fast as possible.
So I get through that draft
so that I can be with others.
cause I find it highly motivating
and I find that no matter what, our
work is going to be better together.
And whether those collaborators or
writers, or orchestrators or directors,
designers, Whoever it is, I don't
wanna be alone, that's how I feel.
but when you feel that way,
you have to then be somebody
that people also wanna be with.
one of the collaborative things that
drives me crazy is when you have to
present something with a collaborator,
but you haven't seen it because the
person was up so late working on it and
they were working and doing great job.
But if you go into a professional
presentation, whether that's in a
workshop setting or whether that is
your job that you have and some change
has been made that you haven't been
able to see, but your name is still
on it, I find that to be the biggest
collaborative offense of all times.
So I like to set a working thing with
people where it's like, and we won't be
ready with this at the last minute, right?
Like when we have deadlines,
there will be time for us.
to review it together so that
nobody's blindsided, because I feel
like once you get in front of the
class or in front of, the creative
directors or in front of whoever,
being a united front is really nice.
whether you still have questions
or not about what's in that draft.
standing together and believing in
it and knowing what you're presenting
is like collaboration 1 0 1 to me.
so I'm really adamant about.
Deadlines and work ethic in that way.
And I don't turn in things late and
I don't enjoy collaborators who do.
Kara Cutruzzula: Hmm.
Sara Wordsworth: That sounds really mean,
but
Kara Cutruzzula: sounds
like a rule though.
That sounds,
Sara Wordsworth: that,
that's my role, I guess.
Kara Cutruzzula: whenever you're
working on a show and you have a
collaborator, how do you communicate that?
the project is done to
both of your satisfaction?
Sara Wordsworth: You know, as you asked
that question, I thought, oh, which of
my pieces do I feel like was really dumb?
And I think none of them,
I love rewriting, I like
writing, I love rewriting.
I think I would dig into anything I've
ever written again, because I don't feel
like it's done I don't feel like it's as
great as it could be or has met all of
the notes, all of the unfinished business.
Everything.
And I think that in the business I'm
in, there's a deadline, there's an
opening, there's a something, and you
put your pencils down and live with it.
sometimes you're thrilled with
it and sometimes you're dying
inside because there was this
huge list of what was left undone.
and I've just learned to
live with it, I guess.
But I think about.
All of my projects or all of my
things always, and what I could
still change in them, you know?
And not in a sad way, just in a, I'm
eager to keep on thinking about it
kind of way, you know, but the deadline
comes and you hand something in.
That's what happens.
Kara Cutruzzula: is very comforting.
I don't know, it's very matter of
fact, but also like, yes, you can
have the impulse to want to go back,
but you also put something forward
that now exists in the world and is
made real to other people as well.
So, I'm gonna hold onto that one.
I'm gonna put that quote on my mirror.
Sara Wordsworth: I always say, if
you wanna put your musical in the,
say the Fringe Festival, it can be
exactly the musical you want it to be.
Probably You, you can make
that vision exactly it.
once you start having more
professional productions, at least
it's been my experience, pieces
of it get changed and lost to you.
a lot of people come in, there's
a lot of people in the mix.
And that can be really amazing because
also things can come in that we're
never gonna come out of your mind and
they could be amazing and brilliant.
But I find the higher profile, the
project, there will probably be many
things for me that were left in my
notes section and not checked off.
And that's okay because I wanna
be a working writer, you know?
I mean, I can write things just for
me and be 100% happy with them, I
guess, but I wanna work with others
and I want others to take in the work.
So that just means there will be other
opinions and they won't be yours.
So that's part of the game,
and I love that game myself.
Kara Cutruzzula: I really love that.
I wanna be a working writer.
Like, if that's the goal, then
there were all the things that
you get to do to make that happen.
well I could talk to you forever,
but I feel like you are in the middle
of two days in a 24 hour period.
So you're going to the
workshop, you're coming back.
You are, Doing, dinnertime,
bedtime with your daughter.
What time are you going to sleep
since you woke up at 4:00 AM
Sara Wordsworth: If the lights are
out, like if we want my poor husband,
because like if we finally sit
down to watch a TV show, I'm like,
can we please leave the lights on?
Like, I can't do this whole
like movie theater set up in the
apartment because if the lights
go down and I've stopped moving,
I will fall asleep.
It depends how long I make it tonight,
but I don't go to bed before my
daughter and she goes to bed around
nine 30 'cause then I like pack her
lunch and get ready for the next day.
And, We'll see when I collapse.
That's the answer.
I hope we can watch a couple Gilmore girls
episodes 'cause my daughter and I are in
season four I hope that the reward at the
end of this long, crazy day is that we
have time to, uh, watch an episode or two
Kara Cutruzzula: That sounds
like a perfect, capper
to the day.
well thank you so much for taking the
time to tell us a little about your.
Double day.
this is a new level, on the podcast.
now I'm just inspired to actually do
something today, since I'm thinking about
the six hours head start that you had.
and, uh, I guess I'll see
you in a couple of hours,
Sara Wordsworth: I will see you at the
workshop, which is gonna be delightful.
Yeah.
This is so fun.
Thanks for having me.
Kara Cutruzzula: All right,
I'll talk to you soon.
Sara Wordsworth: Okay, Kara, I'll see you
Kara Cutruzzula: Bye.
Sara Wordsworth: I.