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We’re reflecting on some of the conversations POCACITO was fortunate to be a part of which we want to share with you. Some of these talks took place as part of POCACITO events, and some are standalone conversations.
One thing that kept coming up is that the critical work of environmental and climate justice is happening at the local level. And it’s being led by civil society.
We met with community organizers and activists from Kyiv; Berlin; St. James Parish, Louisiana; Superior, Arizona, and many more to learn what this work looks like, and how we can help.
Electronic music track X1 by frankum -- https://freesound.org/s/426470/ -- License: Attribution 4.0
Hello and welcome to another POCACITO conversation. My name is Max Koenig and today we're gonna talk about Climathon Baltimore's circular solutions for all, focusing on an event that took place in June 2026 in Baltimore, Maryland, discussing the circular economy and solutions to reduce resource use, increase resource recycling, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We had participants from all over The US and from Germany. And just to list a few of those, we had Nora Sophie Greifan, cofounder and executive director of Cradle to Cradle NGO. We had Tim Jansen, also cofounder of Cradle to Cradle NGO.
Max:We had Tom Pettau from Climathon, Gelsenkirchen, and Charlotte Hohne from Botromgemeinsen Circular. We had on the Maryland side, also on this podcast, Rachel Lamp, senior climate adviser at the Maryland Department of the Environment, and we also had Adam Ortiz, deputy secretary at the Maryland Department of the Environment. We also talked with Stephanie Phillips. She's both with the city of San Antonio and with Circular San Antonio, a nonprofit. And we talked with Floyd Godsey from Baltimore.
Max:I also wanna say there were, of course, a lot of people we did not interview for the podcast, but they had a lot of great ideas and comments as well. And we hope to hear from more of them in the future since we wanna continue this this being our very first Climathon. And a big thank you to Climathon's Hellbach back then still at the German embassy in Washington DC. Now back again with the German environment ministry who made this all possible. Enjoy the podcast and see you soon again.
Max:Bye bye. Hi, Nora. Great to see you again. It's been a long time since we've been in touch. And now we're here in Baltimore.
Max:Less hot than in Germany though, and funny coincidence. Thanks to El Nino, maybe. So glad that you could make it for the Climathon in Baltimore. So, yeah, tell me a little bit about you because you have, of course, this whole nonprofit, Cradle to Cradle.
Nora Griefahn:Yeah. Thank you, Max, for the invitation. It's really nice to be here. I think it's really great and also cooler than in Berlin right now, so that's great as well. I've been in The United States quite a lot of times before, so it's great to be here again and to meet some more new people and also really interesting people and learning a bit how circularity is also going in United States right now.
Nora Griefahn:Yeah. Like you said, I'm Norhei Sophie Griffin. I'm the founder and CEO of Cradle to Cradle NGO from Germany. We are working together with a team of 40 people in Berlin and with 1,000 volunteers on bringing the idea of Cradle to Cradle into society and doing advocacy, doing policy works. And we are actually also doing a lot of projects that show that cradle to cradle is already possible so that we don't have to work in a linear way, but we can actually produce in a way that everything can go into cycles and everything can be made in a way that it's good for the environment and good for humans.
Nora Griefahn:So creating a positive footprint instead of a less bad footprint. And I think I met a lot of people here who gave me a lot of inspiration on what kind of topics we should work on. For example, in the last days, I talked a lot with people who are working on water or also on food and biomass systems to make them more circular. And I think that was a really interesting impression as well because right now, when I see in Germany talking about the circular economy strategy, we talk a lot about industry strategies. And for us, cradle to cradle is also a holistic approach who is looking more broader on where we need to actually, yeah, close the loop.
Nora Griefahn:And so to talk about water, to talk about agricultural systems, yeah, together with, of course, the built environment, together with the electronics sector, that's really interesting, and I got a lot of impressions here. Yes.
Max:Okay. Great. That's that's really great to hear because, of course, primarily the idea... Or not primarily, but but the initial idea was we bring you here so you tell people here a lot, but it's great that you can also get information or ideas, inspiration from here, and so it's going both ways, and there's a lot new ideas, maybe new actions, maybe new projects, maybe new products. You mentioned the products coming out of this, so this is really exciting.
Nora Griefahn:It is. It is really... I think it's really important. I mean, of course, I can tell a lot about our work and how Cradle to Cradle is working and a lot about companies and projects that are already working, yeah, with these ideas. But I think it's always so important that you can see how people are implementing these ideas.
Nora Griefahn:Also, maybe with different names or different thoughts, but already, yeah, are doing this and to see, okay, what can you learn from each other? Otherwise, you shouldn't go somewhere else, I I would say.
Max:That is so true. That is so true. And it's always the kind of the trade off, right, because travel is difficult. We also know it's like, it's an environmental impact, so we shouldn't do it all the time and too much, but at the same time, you can't meet new people in your own basement. Right?
Max:So you have to go out and this is so great when you see people actually connect across all these differences of location, cultural background, and maybe also, like, education and training. Like, they're engineers, they're policy people.
Nora Griefahn:Yes. And you get a totally different feeling. I mean, starting from the hotel where you're staying, going to the place where you, like, talk to people not only at the conference but also on the side and having, like, this informal discussions, that's something you cannot have online. That's true. And so I think it's really important, especially during these times now where I think...
Nora Griefahn:Yeah. Also, Union or European States and United States are getting, I would say, not that close right now. So it's even more important to stay in contact and to also work on this transatlantic corporations even more and to see what you can do together with the people who really want to do something.
Max:Yeah. I totally agree. I think you're so right. Now we need this even more than Yeah. In good times, so to speak.
Max:And it's not always easy, and it's not always self propelling. It's work, but it's great. And it's fun too. I mean, like tonight, seeing the game of the World Cup, making new friends, having maybe food that you don't have usually, and then tomorrow's another day. We don't know yet what it will bring.
Max:Just a question. Have you been to Baltimore before?
Nora Griefahn:No. Actually, I've not been to Baltimore. I have been to DC and, I mean, I also spent some days before here coming here in DC and to... Yeah. I met a lot of people I know from other projects and time before, but it's also nice to visit the city here and to, yeah, to see how this city is working and also how the state of Maryland is doing their environmental work.
Nora Griefahn:Yes.
Max:Yeah. No. Indeed. Indeed. So I hope...
Max:Yeah. I hope you bring some of the ideas back to... When you go back to Germany, but also that we can keep going and have this dialogue because, of course, there is still a lot more to be done here. But he also said there's even more to be done in Germany and in Europe, of course.
Nora Griefahn:Yes.
Max:We are not circular anywhere and very far from it, actually. I don't even know, but but I assume that resource use, material use goes up still in in across all categories, more or less, or how is that?
Nora Griefahn:Yes, it does. And so it's even more important to really work on this ideas how you can bring this together. But I mean, cradle to cradle is a concept that comes from The United States. It was developed with Michael Brown, that from Germany and then William McDonough from from The United States. And so the book Cradle to Cradle was also published here quite close from where we are right now.
Nora Griefahn:And there are a lot of companies who worked on Cradle to Cradle for like over twenty years already who are here from The United States. So of course, there's a lot of inspiration that you can get from people who really want to change things and really work on the future. And so it's even more important to join forces with these people who are working on this and, yeah, to, yeah, to get this together. And that's why we also, Greater to Greater NGO, will work on, yeah, this transatlantic partnership in the next month and next year. And so, yeah, we are quite excited to be here.
Max:I'm excited too. Thank you so much for coming and looking forward to the next days and in the future as well. Yes. Thank you.
Nora Griefahn:Thank you so much.
Max:Bye. Hi, Stephanie. So nice to see you again. It's been a while...
Stephanie Phillips:Years.
Max:Thank you so much for coming out to Baltimore to the Climathon. I wanna hear a little bit what it was for you to be here, what you thought about the first day, and maybe just, yeah, what what brought you here? What made you think, okay, I'm gonna pack my bag and go all the way to the East Coast?
Stephanie Phillips:So many reasons. I was really interested in the Climathon because I think transatlantic collaboration is more important now than ever. So being able to have discussions, ideate with our German counterparts as well as representatives from across The United States is so so fruitful for the work that we're doing on the ground locally in San Antonio. So that was a big driver for me wanting to participate in this because I think ideas shared across geographies really result in like the most fruitful solutions. So that was a really big motivator for me.
Max:Yeah. That's fantastic. Tell me a little bit, how is it right now in San Antonio? I mean, I haven't been there in a couple years since actually before the pandemic. So how is it changing?
Max:What's the mood like?
Stephanie Phillips:Yeah. San Antonio is definitely in, like, a growth period. We're one of the fastest growing cities in the country. We're such a hot city, so we're really kind of grappling with some of those resilience, energy burdens, water infrastructure. All of those conversations are super top of mind right now, especially as summer hits.
Stephanie Phillips:The city itself is really progressive around addressing climate resilience strategies. The program that I manage in San Antonio is our deconstruction program. So we're really focused on recapturing building materials, redirecting them into new community uses, and kind of focusing on being a leader in that space to demonstrate what's possible in a really, really complicated waste stream. So I think there's a lot of motivation for solutions, a lot of, like, external drivers that are driving the community into the conversation, which I think is really important. So I think San Antonio is a really great spot for people to look for how climate resilience can be transferred into programs and policies.
Max:Yeah. So that's indeed... It's a very tough topic. Yeah. But we see it...
Max:The need is everywhere around us. We see old buildings that need second lives or rebuild, and here we go with materials. That's Exactly. So tell me a little bit about your roles, maybe plural or role, depending what you wanna focus on both in San Antonio and beyond.
Stephanie Phillips:Yeah. So my day job is working for the city of San Antonio administering our deconstruction and circular economy program. So the built environment is my bread and butter, and our program is really focused on bringing in waste management into, like, an interdisciplinary conversation. So integrating public health, historic preservation, workforce development is such a big topic right now. So it's been really fun to explore policy from kind of a multifaceted lens.
Stephanie Phillips:My other focus is on our nonprofit called Circular San Antonio, which is focused on building up circular capacity at the community level in San Antonio. So we focus on the built environment, textiles, plastics, manufacturing, kind of really building up the community infrastructure around reuse and positioning San Antonio as a leader in the circular economy. So one of our projects, which should be actually breaking ground shortly, is the first bus stop shade shelter made out of completely reclaimed materials.
Floyd Godsey:Wow.
Stephanie Phillips:So we're really excited about that because we've already gotten a lot of cities across the country that are like, oh, like, that's a really good idea. We should do that too. So actually building out that shade structure, documenting the process, talking about what it was like to work with our transit authority, all of those things will be elevated to national conversation shortly. So that's been really fun to kind of use that nonprofit as like an idea generator Yeah. And an implementation like tool.
Stephanie Phillips:So that's been super exciting.
Max:So now, of course, I wanna picture this. So it's like the roof is made from like synthetics or so that you recover from the waste stream basically or...
Stephanie Phillips:We have found a lot of community partners that are donating either surplus or reclaimed materials. So we have a large metal recycling manufacturing company in San Antonio that is donating recycled steel. The facility that our city agency called the Material Innovation Center recovers a lot of reclaimed lumber, so that will be like the underside of the structure. And then we're working with a really prolific local artist to use reclaimed steel sheet metal to cut out pieces and paint that so it's like beautiful and interesting. Like a really awesome streetscape presence.
Stephanie Phillips:And actually, we just got approval from the city of San Antonio to donate it to the city's public art collection. So not only is it important shade infrastructure in a corridor that desperately needs it, not only is it a bus infrastructure, but it's also public art.
Max:Wow. Okay. So you tick off all the boxes, and you have the locally made, and you have the reused materials. Fantastic. And and how did you get everybody on board for this?
Stephanie Phillips:It was a process. I actually want to credit our project lead for this, Reese Joseph, who works for a local architecture firm and was actually a grad student when he undertook, like, the project lead for this. What he started with was community engagement, and I think that was really critical. We got this grant to do this work, and he brought the question of if San Antonio is gonna build a reused bus stop, how should we do it? Who should the partners be?
Stephanie Phillips:What should it look like? Where should it be? So that really started the genesis of that. And then we all just kind of leveraged our networks, talked to people, talked about how cool it would be if we did this and how shade equity is such an important part of this and they kind of just took off from there.
Max:Wow. That's fantastic. I really have to come back. I think I haven't been there for too long.
Stephanie Phillips:Yeah. You'll have to come for the groundbreaking of our bus stop.
Max:Oh. Do you have a date already?
Stephanie Phillips:No. Not yet. We gotta build it first. But I would say, we'll we'll try to do it in spring so that it's not too hot.
Max:So yeah, what's your hope for tomorrow here at the Climathon?
Stephanie Phillips:Well, I think something that's been really great about the Climathon experience is having people organized in groups by material stream and really posing like what is the problem that you wanna solve and what is the solution gonna be. And tackling a huge problem of a waste stream can be complicated especially with different perspectives, people coming together from different industries. But what's been really inspiring is seeing how passionate people are about solving a big problem and being willing to explore unique solutions with their groups. So tomorrow, I'm just really looking forward to hearing what those solutions are, kind of workshopping and hearing what the pitches are and taking that back to my own community, Wonderful. Wonderful.
Max:Well, thank you then. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. And now, let's go back to the game because it's currently the game Germany against Ecuador is still going on.
Stephanie Phillips:Go...
Max:Thank you. Hi. Hello. It's so nice to meet you, and thank you for taking time to join us at the Climathon Baltimore and also for hosting us. Do you wanna say a little bit about who you are and what your position and role entails at the Department of the Environment in Maryland?
Max:And then we can talk a little bit more about the event today, the Climathon.
Adam Ortiz:Sure. I'm happy to. Well, first, I wanna express my gratitude to you and to Germany and all the other sponsors of the event. We were so honored to partner here in Maryland. My name is Adam Ortiz.
Adam Ortiz:I'm the deputy secretary for the Maryland Department of the Environment, and we're in charge of taking care of the environment in cooperation with localities and community groups and nonprofits and to make sure that Maryland is as clean, green, and beautiful, and responsible as possible.
Max:And I have to say you're doing a great job. I mean, obviously, it's pretty bearable right now here. It's nice. It's hot, but here in the shade, it's actually pretty decent. And, we also just crossed there.
Max:It's a big park here, Carroll Park. It's really nice to see that much green space right outside your office, basically. And, of course, your office itself is a prime example of reusing buildings, right? Because it could have been torn down, but instead it has a second life. So, it's a beautiful building, really nice landmark.
Max:Great that you moved in there and used that. So, that links us back to the topic of today, is the circular economy. So, we wanna reduce the use of new materials and reuse existing materials, either in recycling or upcycling or otherwise reusing them. And for that, we came together here for the Climathon, and I wanted to say this was really inspiring here, but also, of course, interesting to see what what Maryland is doing, how Maryland is pushing this topic, because it's not the first event you're doing on the topic of the circular economy. Right?
Adam Ortiz:That's right. So we do everything that we can because the environment is huge. As we know, it's the entire world, and it's the natural environment as well as the built environment. And we're trying to take care of the present, you know, making sure that there's as little pollution as possible. But we're trying to look ahead as well, and that's in creating new laws and policies and practices so we can be more responsible in the future.
Adam Ortiz:But also, we're still cleaning up the past. Like a lot of the industrialized world, there's contaminants, in the soil. There's legacy challenges with water quality. So we're trying to cover all the bases, it's too big of a job to do alone. So even though we are the state government and we have the support of the governor and of the people, we need all the help we can get.
Adam Ortiz:So that's why events like Climathon are so important because it brings the nonprofit sector together. It brings different levels of government and other practitioners because we have no chance unless we work together.
Max:Yes. And that's a very good point. And, of course, we have here the connection with the German side. They brought this idea to the table and said, we would like to do something on the circular economy because it's also very important in Germany right now, both because there is not the resources available necessarily, and we all learned this the hard way during COVID nineteen. And now we see this in a lot of different ways in the tech space, in the new mobility space, in all kinds of terrains where this links into security, national security question, but also very very simply because we're running out of things in certain areas.
Max:And we just realized that they're not endlessly available. Like you said, I mean, nature is big, but we still have a lot of work to do to use it in in a sustainable way. I think it was very interesting to hear the different perspectives today, and I think your input was actually very inspiring during the day where you gave, like, a motivational, inspirational talk to the group that was really firing people up, probably just as much as our opening remarks earlier that day.
Adam Ortiz:Oh, well, thank you. That's very kind. One of the great things about working on environmental issues, which isn't true of all issues, is that every single person can do something to make a difference. There are unquestionably things that are beyond our control, but there's a lot of things that are in our control, and we have responsibility to do the best we can. So as an individual, we can choose to recycle.
Adam Ortiz:We can choose to repurpose materials. We can choose to purchase things from vendors who are behaving responsibly in the marketplace. We have that choice. We choose if we have high efficiency appliances or HVAC systems, if we drive electric cars, you know, those are all things that are within our power. So that is important.
Adam Ortiz:And, you know, the the world is big and not everybody agrees, but we can try to do the best we can in our capacity and building coalitions with like minded groups. That's how we're gonna keep it going. Still, there's a lot of headwinds these days, but the movement continues to grow. We continue to make progress. And whatever we do, if we're thoughtful, we can continue to make that progress despite the challenges that we have in this day and age.
Max:Absolutely. And I think today too, we had a lot of the young generation. That was really also great to see young people, students, and young professionals come and bring their ideas to the table.
Adam Ortiz:Oh, yeah. And what I'm finding is, you know, and I just entered my fifties. You're much younger than me, clearly. But younger people are much smarter than us. You know, they're they're...
Adam Ortiz:They they they have a a much more awareness, I think, than previous generations have had. Their education is more precise, more specific, and
Floyd Godsey:I think
Adam Ortiz:more applied to today's challenges than previous generations. So there's a lot to be concerned about looking forward, but there's a lot to feel optimistic about looking forward too because I think the younger generation is very very plugged in, engaged, and committed to solutions.
Max:To solutions. Thank you so much, Adam, and have a great rest of your day, and hope to see you sometime soon again in Baltimore or in Germany. We'll see happens first....
Adam Ortiz:You so much for the conversation. Thanks for supporting and being a tremendous partner to to us. And a lot of work ahead, but it's easier when we work across boundaries and have beer like we just did. So thank you for that German influence in our activities today.
Max:Thank you. Bye bye. Hi, Rachel. So tell me a little bit about yourself and and your job and how you got here.
Rachel Lamb:Yeah. Well, thanks, Max. It's been great partnering with you on Climathon Baltimore. My name's Rachel Lamb. I'm assistant secretary for climate policy and international affairs with the Maryland Department of the Environment.
Rachel Lamb:So our department thinks about environmental protection all the time across our entire state, but we also lead the state's climate portfolio. So we work really extensively with many other agencies, many other states, and many other countries to figure out how we can raise ambition around these really important climate commitments. We also have a really strong priority and commitment to building a more circular economy, which is a nice blending of both of those priorities at today's events where we can think about how we build out that life cycle stream for materials while also reducing pollution at the same time. So it's been a great opportunity to to work on these issues with you.
Max:Likewise. Likewise. I... I'm so thrilled because we we hardly knew each other before, and it's kind of like, okay. How's this gonna work?
Max:Because things can go many ways, but I'm so blown away. This is so fantastic. I mean, the whole team, it's kind of unheard of, this level of friendly cooperation. And I think also, of course, this contributed to the success of today, but that's just my view, of course. But I think it all helped, all carried the spirit for Climathon Baltimore today.
Rachel Lamb:Oh, I think it's been an amazing opportunity to bring together diverse perspectives and voices, but sharing a core set of values and a commitment to thinking more creatively about how we can support more creative solutions. And I think that's what draws us together because we can have a shared understanding of this big problem, but know that we can be better together. So it's in the partnership and it's in building the relationships that we can not only come up with good ideas, but continue to work them out in practice and try to implement them.
Max:Yeah. Yeah. No. That... That's, of course, the hope that this leads to more that we can both stimulate policy innovation, but also beyond that, like, we have so many NGOs and other groups involved that they take action, have new ideas for projects, and we heard a lot of talk about databases or platforms and, repositories.
Max:So this was very exciting because obviously this is also then thinking about how can we use new technology to help overcome environmental issues that we're currently facing. Right?
Rachel Lamb:Yeah. I think that's part of the innovation space. I I saw a lot of the themes from the discussion about how to increase transparency, how to engage the public and consumers, how to make the information available to those who... Every one of us has a sphere of influence. So how can we use that information to do things differently?
Rachel Lamb:And that applies to policymakers too. Sometimes it's about taking a problem that maybe we've approached it in a particular way for a while, but by getting other perspectives, other tools, especially technological innovation, it gives us an opportunity to to maybe offer new approaches and figure out what the next generation of solutions can look like.
Max:I saw you're taking some notes today. I wanted to ask what was so far at least the thing where you thought, oh, that's really interesting. Was there a moment, like, if you have to pick one? Because we can't do all of them, but if you if you have to be unfair and have a preferred child.
Rachel Lamb:Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna wait and see how it all works out tomorrow. That's when we get to see the final product and, highlight everyone's successes. One of the real material challenges we face in Maryland is around electronics and batteries and trying to figure out how to build out strategies that can better capture what is now a waste stream, but then they're full of abundant critical minerals that are so important to the next generation of solar panels and the next generation of electric vehicle batteries. So while we're pushing on a lot of that electrification in our climate commitments, we actually have an opportunity to maybe build more economic markets and think about how to capture those materials here in Maryland instead of going out in other parts of the globe and getting new ones. And so I'm I'm listening in to that strategy and what kind of policy tools could help capture more of that market.
Rachel Lamb:And I know that's not just something Maryland's interested in, but Maryland can be a really important partner in that, supply chain process.
Max:Absolutely. Yeah. And of course, you're also very well positioned in the Mid Atlantic, and then you have significant ports. So things move in and out here at high volume. It's amazing.
Max:And thank you so much again for having us here. It's it's fantastic. Fantastic day one. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, of course, but I'm very optimistic. Thank you so...
Rachel Lamb:Am I. Thank you.
Max:Hi, Floyd.... Nice.... See you.
Floyd Godsey:Yes. Thank you for having me.
Max:It's great to be together again.
Floyd Godsey:Yes, indeed.
Max:Yes, indeed. So tell me a little bit your background Yes. What you're doing. Yeah.
Floyd Godsey:I am a general contractor and service provider for farmers in Baltimore, the greater Baltimore area, but in Maryland in general, helping to help them build out their vision and provide their construction needs.
Max:Wonderful. Wonderful. And so you're a lot with people who work in the food business.
Floyd Godsey:Food business and also urban development, whatever their basic construction needs, rather it's light construction or visualization or just hands on the ground trying to get the job done.
Max:And you've been doing this for a couple years now already?
Floyd Godsey:I have. I've been working in the urban development for maybe about five years and in rural development in maybe the past eleven years now.
Max:So, you're... You know something about it.
Floyd Godsey:I know a little something. Yeah.
Max:So so today, you were at Climathon Baltimore Yes. First day. How's your first impression of...
Floyd Godsey:It was amazing. I got to meet other people that's in the industry from, you know, different levels from policymakers to people a little bit more hands on and being able to kind of network and brainstorm and see what, you know, see where their roadblocks are and trying to develop solutions. So this was perfect timing and perfect for the environment that we're in now. So it's really what's good. Yeah.
Max:So so you think you you can pull something out of this?
Floyd Godsey:Absolutely. And I think from the workshops and the groups, I do think that these are, you know, definitely very beneficial networking and connections that I've made personally and people that can help me along the way in my in my career and what I'm trying to do. But just in general, I think what my group is working on, which is the build environment group, being able to kind of get people with the same mentality and getting them all together was really good and coming up with some possible solutions. So, I think anywhere where you can get people who are constantly working on problem solving and trying to come up with, you know, solutions, getting that collection of people in one place is always gonna produce something Right. And something positive.
Max:Yeah. Yeah. Was it also... Did you have a German in the group as well?
Floyd Godsey:I had Tim and I had Tom as well.
Max:Oh, both of them?
Floyd Godsey:Yes. Yes.
Max:Yes. Tim and Tom.
Floyd Godsey:Tim and Tom.
Max:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Floyd Godsey:Tom was really cool. I actually sat right next to him. We were talking about... I can't remember the name of his city, where he's from. Yeah.
Floyd Godsey:But he was talking about that it's have a coal mining background. Yeah. And, of course, I could kind of correlate that with West Virginia and West Virginia's background and being just a coal mining state in general. Yeah. Kind of talking about like the political hardships and kind of relate to seeing like with people like that having to deal with, you know, de industrialization and losing the industries and it's kind of like the same thing.
Floyd Godsey:Seeing that a place as far off as Germany that's across the pond for us, know, and seeing that people in West Virginia dealing with the same problems Yeah. You know, it's it's just kind of kinda showing that we're all kinda dealing with the same problems Yeah. In a way. Yeah.
Max:So, help me out here. So Yeah. West Virginia, is that a personal connection for you?
Floyd Godsey:No. Not necessarily. But, I do try to keep up just in general what's happening socially in the country. Yeah. Yeah.
Floyd Godsey:But I just try to keep up with what's happening in the in general. Yeah. Because we're all dealing with the same problems and
Max:Oh,
Floyd Godsey:yeah. Trying to survive. Yeah. Essentially, you know, West Virginia has a has a very unique set of issues because they are becoming less reliant on human labor when it comes to industry and coal mining and some of the lack of I I don't know, I don't know if it's fair to say, but lack of concern that I feel like a state like West Virginia is kind of being forgotten about in in many regards. So, I don't know, it's kind of a thing that I just kind of keep up up going on what's happening.
Floyd Godsey:Yeah.
Max:Yeah. No. I totally get it. And it's really not that far from here. So...
Floyd Godsey:It's not that far. Know, I'm... I now think I imagine like a place like, Baltimore, they used have Bethlehem Steel, which used to be a big, you know, producer still in shipping and etcetera.
Max:And then now, of course, is there still industry in Baltimore?
Floyd Godsey:Yes. Is it... I know. Baltimore is in this... In a weird place.
Floyd Godsey:It's not as industrial, nowhere near as industrial as it used to be. A lot of industry has either been outsourced outside the country entirely or moved to maybe further out into the county, but it's nowhere as industrialized. I think the largest industry in the Baltimore area is medical or education through industries, you know, like John Hopkins or the University of Maryland. But outside of that, and maybe somewhat tech in the financial structure, you know, you have the legal field, but it's nowhere near as the very take your lunch pail to work, the bohemian town that it kinda used to be back in the day.
Max:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.
Max:It changes everything.
Floyd Godsey:It has. And I think now, I think Baltimore is more of a logistical hub than anything, than what it used to be. I mean, it's always kinda been a logistical hub, but with the industries on top. But now you have places like Amazon and other Yeah. Logistic...
Floyd Godsey:Large and logistical companies that has come really into the city to to kind of take over things in a way.
Max:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's different.
Max:Well, let's see if we can pull out some great ideas tomorrow... Yes. Cool. Cool. Yes.
Max:And then, yeah, let's rock it. Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay.
Max:Cool.