Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Legendary South African jockey and now a successful trainer Michael Roberts reflects on his illustrious career, the transition from riding to training, and the current state of horse racing in South Africa.
Roberts has leading chance See It Again in this weekend's Cape Met.
Roberts has leading chance See It Again in this weekend's Cape Met.
Creators and Guests
What is Idol Horse Podcast?
The Idol Horse team tackles the biggest events on the world horse racing calendar. Expect to hear interviews from the biggest names in the sport and insight, breaking news and forthright opinion from the Idol Horse team.
Michael Cox (00:01.038)
Michael Roberts is a true titan of the turf. An 11-time champion jockey in South Africa, he made the switch to the UK with the European riding ranks in late 1980s, arguably never stronger. Forever associated with the mighty Mtohto, he proved the perfect springboard to top flight success, which then saw the South African ace claim the 1992 UK champion jockey title and multiple Group 1s throughout the 90s for some of the biggest owners and trainers in the land.
Switching the saddle for the trainer's stand and now enjoying great success in his native South Africa, Michael looked back on the glory days and ahead to this weekend's Whirlpool Cape Met with a new apple of his eye, see it again. Enjoy.
Michael Cox (00:49.058)
Michael, welcome to the Idlehorse podcast and thank you so much for your time today. You're busy at the sales. It's a busy and a great time of year, I suppose, there in the Cape with the Met coming up this weekend. Yes, most definitely an exciting time. The weather is good and we're looking forward to Saturday. Before we get into that and you'll run it there, see it again.
want to talk about him, obviously, if you wouldn't mind just backing up a little bit and indulging us going back to the riding days, or maybe when you finished riding in the early 2000s, what was the reason? I suppose the obvious one is that South Africa is home, but after spending so long riding in the UK and Europe, why did you go back to South Africa to train instead of staying in the UK where you had such a big reputation at the time? know, to be honest, you know, sort of coming from a farming background, you know,
had a lovely farm out here and always thought I'll retire probably on my farm, you know, one day. And, you know, I had some other lovely herd of Jersey cattle and red Angus beef. And, you know, it was doing very well. And then I got lured into training. And I did look at the options in England and, you know, it just looked a bit tough for me, you know. So, you know, that's actually the sort of the reason I came back home. And in terms of those.
those days riding the UK obviously arrived with a big reputation, but you walked into a weighing room with the likes of Steve Cawthon, Pat Edery, Willie Carson as well. It was a real golden era at the time. What was that like, making the transition from South Africa to the UK? Look, it wasn't easy, you know, being a foreigner and also being an especially from South Africa at the time. But, you know, we kept our head high and just do what we
try to do best and you know so you know we got through it you know and obviously you know it's like any jockey you know you've got to ride winners to prove yourself and you know I had a very good trainer I worked from which I knew from a long way back from my early days with Gavin Hunter Alex the late Alex Stewart he was a great help and he looked after me very well and also Clive Britton the neighbour you know two fantastic people in my early time
Michael Cox (03:02.114)
time in the UK, to be honest with you, it was like starting up your apprenticeship over there again, because you had to prove yourself. So it wasn't that easy. But like I say, we just kept grinding at it, worked hard. And slowly, slowly the results were coming in. And I must say the tide sort of turned after we won our first Group 1 there on Matota, the Coral Eclipse. So that was the 87 eclipse, it, with the matchup with reference point?
Correct, yes, that's right. mean, was a, know, Matota was a very special horse, you know, he put me on the map and yeah, that was, you know, always was very confident I could beat him because of the, this also is acceleration. And so it was a great battle, you know, I was quite bullish before the race as reference point was such a convincing Derby winner. But I just thought the way he's running style would suit my horse where he had to be settled and not over racing and which he did, beautiful.
And we picked him up in a straight. He loomed up that day. think Cortham was obviously aware of the fact that you might have a bit more speed. So he was always pushing reference point, getting him going. when you loomed up, he didn't give up reference point, did he? He made you work for it. No, he was a relentless galloper. And as you must remember, there's also that great mid Triptych in a race as well. So it was very competitive. And I think the year after as well, 88, Triptych lined up
again, Indian Skimmer was in the field and you loomed up once more on the outside of Shady Heights. Did he just flatten out for a second? Or did Shady Heights fight back? Can you talk us through that sort of last furlong or so? Yeah, you know, we came there very easily with him and then he sort of was, you know, sort of laboring a bit and I went for the whip. And I never used to hit him hard because he used to give you all.
And I think I could have just caught him in the flank slightly and I could feel him curl and I thought I was in trouble. And when I put the whipple away, you he responded brilliantly to win. I think we ended up winning a good neck. Yeah, it was almost the perfect season as well, Michael, with the King George that year as well beating Unfer Wayne, another giant of the turf at that time and didn't quite get the fairytale finish in the arc, unfortunately. Exactly. Probably my biggest disappointment in my racing career.
Michael Cox (05:27.582)
know, because I really thought that he's a big runner because Tony Vinn had to be beaten in the King George, you he was back in there and, you know, I followed him in the race. It was quite a big field, one of those unusual arcs, you know, those times. And I got a bit stuck behind him. was him, you know, when I really wanted to go and, you know, just couldn't get there. mean, it just absolutely, you know, I was scattered to be honest with you. Yeah, he was the horse though that I think most people
associate you with? Would he have been the best that you rode? Definitely, you know, he was very special. He was a great horse, he great acceleration, you know, you what you need in a race horse, you know, and obviously I rode other good ones as well. I mean, very good horses. rode, you know, Opera House, we won the King George for Sir Michael Stout, Indian Skimmer for Sir Henry Cecil, you know, great filly, well, the best filly I sat on, you know, we, you know, we went over to the Breeders' Cup, we finished third on the Breeders' Cup. He didn't quite get a mile and a half.
was more of a mile and a quarter filly. We won the Audi's champion, the English champion on that. And Baratheia, we won the English, I mean, the Audi's guineas on him. Second to Sephonic in the English, you know, I believe he even, Sephonic broke the track records and so did, you know, Baratheia on that particular race. So, you know, I was blessed with some lovely horses. I don't know if that was a shock or not, but Baratheia
looked like he was going to run away and win and then Zafonics come from the clouds really. He was somewhat on his day Zafonic. Exactly, know, know Pat, you know, they used to hold him up, you know, and you know when I pressed the button and with the acceleration of the Peltier, you know, I thought I had the Guinean in the back and the next minute he came past me, you know, within a couple of strides, he never even gave me a chance to, you for a battle or anything like that, you know. And then, you know, obviously we always had
very close to Marty's Mystica, my first English classic, winning the Guineas for Clyde Pritch and Lady Beaver. That's also a very special victory because he was a difficult horse that we had on the gallops every morning, early out before anybody else. He never worked with a companion. I used to hack him around because you only need two speeds, dead slow or flat out. And being on the gallops early in the mornings without any horses around him.
Michael Cox (07:45.87)
You know, he settled beautifully and we went in that race quite bullish. My only concern is that I could lead with him where I'd been taken on and Lester rode oars in the race for William Haggis, Bogtrotter and he was the only other sort of speed oars and thank goodness when the doors came out and I was so pleased I was drawn on the outside or the near side at Newmarket and Bogtrotter was towards the middle and most of the jocks followed Bogtrotter and left me on my own on the fence.
know, and so I was just doing no work in front and when we pressed a button we quickened well up the hill to meet Steve. Steve came late on know on Lysias for Andre Farpe, you know. You mentioned India Skimmer there, she was a little bit temperamental at times as well. I can't remember actually now if it was you or Steve that was riding that day, she planted herself at Newmarket going down to the star. That was Steve.
That was Steve, was it? You never encountered anything like that when you rode her? Yeah, no, she was. In America, the couple of mornings we took on a truck, Henry wasn't a pony. We had to take her. But she just used to stand and she's taking the surroundings around her and then she would set off. But she was a great ride, really. Could get a bit rank if you start hanging onto her. You had to give her lot of rain and let her use herself. But to be honest, she's just a gallop and typical
Cecil horses, know, gallop and you know lengthen more than quicken, know. a good filly, very good. Yeah, so how did you find the transition then from riding to training? Was it an easy one or you are a hard taskmaster for jockeys that are riding for you now? Very much so I think. seem to see things before it's going to happen.
I think most ex jockeys are like that, sort of listening to my colleagues around me. But it wasn't that difficult. I thought it might be difficult standing on the ground instead of riding horses and feeling them. And I was always really fortunate enough to give my trainers good feedback. And you've got the feel for the animal and that. But no, I like to have a stable rider that we can communicate with horses and talk about it. But it hasn't been that difficult.
Michael Cox (10:09.23)
I know the next question you're going to ask me is probably, you what would you prefer? I promise you. So it's much been easier on their backs than standing on the ground. So what do you like then with with instructions for jockeys? I did read a story or an article that interview with you and you talked about the importance of speed out of the gates and getting a position. Is that something you try and instill then in the people that are writing for you or you sort of believe in the, you know, good jockeys?
you know, don't need instructions and bad ones can't follow them anyway. Andrew, to be honest with you, you know, the jockey knows always, I don't think you must tie him down because, you you always got to have plan B, you know, to me is the most important thing is obviously, you know, to get out the gates nicely and, you know, to get yours relaxed, especially if you're going over ground and to be patient, you know, and, you know, it's funny enough being that sort of rider, you know, I sort of, you know, train my horse to that way as well.
So, you know, it's not a, how can I say, you know, it's not tying up being a first three. You know, if I've got to ride a riding horse for the first time, you know, I'll just tell him what I think the horse likes doing and things like that, you know, but, you know, I'd rather see the horse come too late than the horse hitting the front at the two furlong pole and get beat, you know. So let's look back then to see it again this weekend of the Met. Picked up a little bit of a knock, he, in the King's Plate? Didn't quite go to plan there?
Yes, you know, he wrapped his joint in a king's plate. But saying that, I don't think that was the main cause. But you know, he was really ranked. mean, you Rachel, our stable rider, rode him and couldn't get in, got knocked around. You know, just the whole race didn't plan out to what we anticipated. You know, we were, I was hoping for it to drop in behind the fancy horses and be in mid-diff, relaxed. And, you know, unfortunately it was just a, you know, virtually a complete mess from the start. But saying that, the horse got beat a long way.
You've got to keep that in the back of your mind. Physically, he's fine. came back. Bloods were done and everything on him. You know, in his good space, but still, you know, he was beaten a long way. But saying that in defense, you know, luckily she didn't pull the whip on him because she could see she was out of contention. And she just let him coast at home. So, you know, we're hoping for that. I have taken the blinkers off for the Met, you know, and he's not a strong horse. It's just that the way he was, you know, came out the gates and the horses and the insund...
Michael Cox (12:34.112)
inside didn't break as well as I expected them to do because I now thought you know being speed horses they're going to be handy and you know she would have slot in but you know unfortunately she broke better than them and you know she couldn't get the cover she needed you know so you know we're hoping for because I mean he's a good horse he's the highest rated horse in the race but you know there is a question Mark you know I'm not going to be silly and say he's back to his best because you know he went in the Kings Plate as a
a nice fresh horse. I can only say that I personally I think the horse probably sulked a bit being pulled around in the race and didn't give his best. And Pia Stradum jumps back on board taking over from Rachel. He had a nasty fall but he seems to have recovered very quickly. Yes, he had a fall the week before the race. So my owner Mr Nick Johnson, we decided to put, because Rachel ran the horse at work and
Like I said, she works horses every day and she has won on him three times. So we thought, well, you'll give her another chance. Obviously, now in the King's Plate and unfortunately it didn't work out for her. But Pierre, I spoke to him a couple of times and he rode the other day at Turfintini. think he had a couple of winners. He came back strong and he said to me, he's worried because he had a couple of stitches in his, I think his...
his left, his right arm and but you know his MP you know feels fine so you know hopefully he's back to the best because you know class jockey a lot of experience has met a one has won the medal on a couple of occasions so you know we can only hope for the best. I'm certainly not trying to retire him in any shape or form but he's riding as good as ever is he Pierre he's pushing pushing 60 I think in his late 50s now.
Yeah, late 50s, yeah. mean, you know, he's, you know, the winners every week and you watch him and he rides some great races. mean, you know, he's a very, know, Pierre's always been a very good tactical rider, you know, he's got a brain on his head, you know. And he's, no, you know, he's always been one of our best in the country, you know, he's been overseas, he went to the UK. But, you know, he came back and, you know, I think he's been over 5,000 winners, you know, so.
Michael Cox (14:55.878)
No, it's always been top class in South Africa. One horse you won't have to worry about this weekend. Michael is one strike the king's plate winner. just speaking generally, I suppose about, you know, South African racing and how it feels now, because as I understand it, they're going to target the Breeders Cup at the end of the year and Quid Pro Quo, I think is heading in that direction as well. Is there a general feeling in South Africa that racing is very much on the up again?
Yes, especially with our horses, hopefully we can export them now. They've reduced the quarantine time for the horses and that. With the horses that's gone to America, that's done well, the filly and see vungo-vungo. That wasn't a bad run for him. He burned up lot of energy in the early part of the race and I thought it's a very respectable run there.
You know, very much so. know, and you know, you know, I think our good horses can do well in America. Europe is a bit of a different story. You know, my belief has always been, you know, you know, up the straight five, six furlongs, you know, we can all own in the group one class. But unfortunately, I think, you know, once we go over the distance, you know, we may struggle a bit. Given your, I suppose, experience and the amount of time you spent in Europe, I know it comes down to the
horses have you got, but do you have those sort of ambitions to travel and compete overseas as well? Yeah, I would love to. mean, you we invited last year with Cedar going to Leppardstown for the hardest champion, but unfortunately we had African horse sickness, heartbreak in, well, a case in around the Durban area. you know, then we were restricted again, you know, because, you know, there's a ban comes in for 30 days, you know, sort of quarantine, you know, which area it comes out.
And so we couldn't go, you know, and it would have been interesting. you know, saying that, I mean, you know, you got to be realistic. You're taking the best, you're going to race against the best in the world. But it would have been nice to get them out there. And then from there, we could have gone to maybe Hong Kong or Dubai, you know, and it would have been a great stepping stone for, you know, to see where we were going to go to. Because, you know, obviously, as you know, London News did very well in Hong Kong when we went over there. But like I say again, you know, in Europe, you know, they're staying also, they're
Michael Cox (17:12.013)
and they're Potentially that could be on the cards again this year for him? Well, it could be because it was a big decision to make. Nick Johnson, we spoke to him about the horse because he concentrating quite heavily, badly. And so we decided to gold him. So now he's a golding. so you'll probably race until as long as he stays sound and he's a really sound horse.
So yes, it possibly can, you know. And I know, Michael, you're obviously a legend in your time riding there and you were, you know, multiple time champion jockey in South Africa too. So you've got, you know, a huge following and great stature there. You have a race named after you, which wasn't all that long ago, I don't think, was it? The Michael Roberts stakes. You must get an enormous sense of pride from, you know, having something like that, having that sort of recognition in the industry.
Yes, it's a very special day for me and my family, I think it was the 35th running of the race, believe it or not. And, no, it's a great day and all the races, usually name it after... I can name the races like I've named it after the countries are riding, the chockeys are riding, the great people of Onus that I've been associated with all over the world and also the trainers.
and the horses. know, it's a special day for me, let's put it that way. Yeah. And this weekend as well, probably touching on the fact, I don't know if this has made a difference to the general sort of feeling in South Africa as well with the world pool, or it being a world pool race this weekend, I should say, are you actually seeing real change on the ground there in South Africa as far as that extra turnover, the money that it's generating as it gets fed back into the industry and a feeling, I guess, you know, within the riding and training ranks that
The world is watching, the world's involved in this as well. Yes, it's fantastic really and you can feel the buzz around and our racing has been recognised all over the world. It's absolutely fantastic and obviously trying to get new owners and people involved in racing, it's also very important and with the prize money escalating, it's fantastic and the Cape Racing,
Michael Cox (19:39.98)
that's joined up now with us in Cajet. There's a lot of excitement around, must be honest with you. Well, Michael, I know you're at the sale, so that could have been somebody wanting to talk about a horse, place an order maybe. So we'll let you go. Really appreciate your time today. Best of luck on the weekend with Seed again. hopefully this might be a springboard to some sort of international campaign as well. Thank you, Andrew. I hope so. And you he's a special horse. The best horse I've trained. So I'm hoping for a good run.
Michael Cox (20:11.342)
Michael Roberts, what a legend. Great to a trip down memory lane there with some of those amazing horses that he rode through the late 80s and into the 90s as well and see it again. Well, hopefully this weekend could be a springboard to an international campaign for him as well. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. Follow us on all the socials and head to the trilingual website, idlehorse.com to stay across all the latest international.
Racing News. Enjoy the action that this weekend until next time for me and the rest of the Idle Horse team. It's bye for now.