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Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.
Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.
Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.
To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.
Dan: Today's guest is a creative thinker with a unique understanding of the spaces she designs. She has global experience, creating innovative, inviting spatial experiences.
She's worked at firms, including Rockwell Group, Avroco, Starwood Hotels, and Highgate. She is the vice president of design at Aspen Hospitality. Ladies and gentlemen, Julie K. Welcome,
Julie: Dan. Thank you for having
me. Oh, I also forgot to mention that you're one of the rare repeat guests. Although we did a stand up, like, impromptu quick hello, how are you at BDNY last year, it's really awesome to have you back so we can, like, dig in a little bit more.
Dan: But I appreciate you and thank you for making the time to share your
Julie: Honored to be back.
Dan: Um, so I, first I'd just like to say or ask how you define hospitality or what does it mean to you? And then we can get
Julie: Hospitality to me means anything that makes people feel a better version of their day to day self and experience. Anything that enhances whatever it is that they're seeking is hospitality.
Dan: I actually totally agree with you. So thank you. Um, when I look back at your career, you haven't had a straight path so to speak, right? So from leaving South Africa after college and coming to the U S, um, um, You had a very unusual path that I think is pretty amazing because what I found and what I appreciate the most about you is you're always open to new experiences and trying new things not, I hate the word should, What's your experience and how you look at your journey, um, working at some of the greatest firms out there and going from design side to owner side and all things in between, um, I think it's, it's something that every listener could really learn from
Julie: So I think that, yeah, it definitely wasn't planned. You know, when I moved here, I had my, just finished my graduate degree in architecture and I only wanted to work for famous architects who design museums. I was very laser focused, or as my father said, museum design, well done on choosing a route that will guarantee unemployment in a downturn.
And, um, you know, I worked for Rafael Vignoli, I worked for Polshek, and then I kind of was looking at the people designing restaurants, um, we're working on the Rose Planetarium. And then as a junior architect, I'm doing the very sexy stuff, like. Bathroom layouts and concrete detailing, and Adam Tahani's team who were designing the restaurant were having way more fun, and that's when I was like, maybe it doesn't have to be what you think at the beginning, and I pivoted, and I begged and whined my way into an interview through a vendor at Adam Tahani's office.
And I, now I'm mortified when I think about it. I was 25 and I walked him through my whole graduate thesis on building museums and memory and everything I'd done at Vignoli at the end of it, Adam, being Adam, looked at me and he said, But this has got nothing to do with what I do, so why did you show it to me?
And I said, because that's my portfolio. And he said, but you don't have any experience in what I do. And because I was 25, I said, I know, but I can do it. Don't worry. And now I think about that and I was like, was I insane? And because Adam was Adam, he took a chance on me and gave me a job. And it was totally different from anything I ever did before, but I really loved it.
And from there, you know, I moved to Rockwell and Avroco and pretty much thought I would stay on the design side forever. And then Starwood found me and I interviewed with them and I was loving working at Abraco, which at the time was a 10 person startup company with one restaurant. And we worked about public and we got to get a glass of wine a day and it was a great environment.
And there was something interesting about the conversation with Starwood and I, it goes back to Adam Tahani. I met Adam for
breakfast. I said, this is the situation
Dan: you followed your dream and then you went to Avroco and Rockwell and then,
Julie: Yeah, I left Tahani for Rockwell where I spent seven years basically only working on Nobu. I, I worked under Sean Sullivan and developed a very good rapport with the Nobu team because I, Mayor Tepp was one of the owners and I just got on really well and I was totally unfazed by the fact that the way he communicated was not yelling, it was just expressive and So I had an amazing seven years working on Nobu, traveling to places at that age I couldn't even imagine.
I mean, I was excited when my first Nobu was in Nassau, Bahamas, but then I got to work on the Nobu in Hong Kong, in Mexico City, and Moscow and just incredible traveling, incredible experiences. And I learned a lot in that job about client services because Rockwell Group is amazing at that. But I also learned about how you build a brand where there's a commonality of experience, but at such a high level, every space has to feel unique. And so in working on one kind of client, one restaurant in so many different locations, I learned to understand that skill. And then from Rockwell went to Avroco and, you know,
as I said, it was pretty much entrenched on the design side. And then the Starwood opportunity came but it was awesome that you went back
Dan: to, A mentor from three jobs ago, or three, right? I mean, that's, that's admirable and awesome, and I think everyone could learn from that, but I kept, I keep cutting you off
here,
so
Julie: when I resigned working from Adam, when Rockwell Group had given me an offer that, you know, and it was, And they'd offered me a green card at the time. And so I went into Adam's office to resign and I resigned. He said, no, you're not resigning. You're staying here. And I said, okay. And I went back to my desk and carried on working and then went home at night to my then boyfriend.
And he said, did you resign? I said, yeah, no, but Adam said, I can't resign. And I have to keep working there. And he was like, okay, well, that's the problem. Julie, you have another job. You have to go back tomorrow and resign again. And so a few days later, I got up the courage, went back in Adam's office and I resigned, but the only way I could do it was to not make eye contact.
Because I really adored him as a person, but the other job was, you know, where I needed to go next. But I was fortunate that he stayed in my life as a mentor and someone I could always turn to. And I'll never forget, we're sitting here having breakfast at the Bresson. And I said, this is the Starwood job.
This is the situation at Avroco. And he turned around and said to me, if you're good at what you do, you can always go back to it. But if you never try the unknown when the door opens, it's never going to open again. And I remember looking at him and being like, That's a really interesting piece of advice.
And he was like, so get up, finish your breakfast, go resign and go take the other job and try something new. And it's something that's stuck with me at every turn in my career. If you're doing your job well, and you pivot. You can always come back to a job you know how to do, but if you never try something you've never done, you'll never know if you can do it.
You know, it's that saying, and I think, and I could be wrong, but I think it was Mitch Park who once said to me, it's unfortunate to leave the traffic circle the same entrance you came in. And I like to think of my career at that, like to do the same thing over and over. It's great if you love it and you don't want change, but my nature always wants to try something else.
And it doesn't have to be the same thing under a new person. It can be something totally different and you just never know how that's going to work out. And so I took the leap, mainly because I was scared to go back to Adam after that breakfast and tell him I didn't. And I went to Starwood and I loved that job.
I learned about brand management. I learned about building a brand. It was a lot of. Right place, right
time. After a year and a half at Starwood, they decided to reposition the Meridian and nobody
was really interested in the Meridian. Everybody
was like,
Dan: Is that where I first, is that where I first,
met you when you were
Julie: yes, I first met you at Winter Forum where I crashed my snowmobile within three minutes of being at the I think it was a record
for the fastest accident.
Um,
Dan: Yes,
Julie: and
Jimmy,
Dan: the fast,
Julie, the fastest accident. Frank, I think we just came up with a t shirt for
Julie: I mean, we hadn't even left the yard. I just crashed
Dan: Oh my God. That's hilarious. Okay. So keep going. So you're going to start with Limeridion
was
Julie: being repositioned and nobody was interested in it. People love St. Regis because it was luxury and gorgeous. People love W because it was the sexy, shiny child. You know, this was the luxury brands. They had W, La Meridian, Western and luxury collection and really nobody cared about Limerillion. It was, I always say Limerillion when I joined the team was like that kid in your class with braces and frizzy hair and kind of awkward.
And then over the next five years under an incredible brand team and I got to do a lot of like design with great partners, it became the really pretty like girl, cool girl. And you're like, wow, it had so much potential all along. Just nobody was paying attention to it. And so working with Ryan Povinelli and George Fleck, who are now very senior in the brand teams at Marriott, the brand was repositioned, came up with a new identity and new aesthetic.
Um, and I got to work on incredible properties from our first, um, new aesthetic Limeridion in Istanbul to the 11 openings in North America. Probably the hardest yet most rewarding one, which was repositioning the original Le Meridien in Paris. And it was just a great job. I love working at Star Wars. So many creative, exciting, energetic
people.
Um, yeah, it was just an, it was a great job, great
team. And
Dan: I want to go back. I want to go back to something a little earlier that you
said, um, when you came out of school, you had, and this is actually really interesting because it's happened to me, um, and I'm sure it's happened to others there, but you came out of school and you want, your dream was to be an architect working for a famous architect or to become a famous architect, but only doing museums, correct?
What's interesting when you, so there's two parts to this. Number one is what's really interesting to me, and I'm very curious about it, is You were working at the Rose Planetarium, a museum, so you achieved your dream at 25. And oftentimes, it's almost like when a dog is chasing a car and they catch the car, it's like, okay, well, what now?
And like, you get to the top of a mountain, there's always another mountain. So that's number one. Like, Was that what made you also want to, or notice that they were having more fun in the restaurant because you achieved your dream and you're like, okay, like, kind of the box is checked. Uh, so I'm curious about that.
And like, you got to the top of the mountain and then, and then what?
Julie: I think that it was, At that level of your career? I think I thought I, you know, I'd done my thesis, we planned, I had planned spaces. I'd written all these documents about how we designed to feel and looking at the five senses, what the visceral reaction and all this very cerebral stuff that when one is an architecture school, you wrap yourself in and you think the world's about, and then you get into a dub and you're like, okay, I'm laying out the conference room air walls, and I'm doing the detail of the concrete wall meeting, the gutter pipe flashing.
I'm not doing what my passion is, which is, building to make people feel, which
was what my whole idea of music was. And suddenly, yeah, this pivot.
Dan: That's what's interesting. It's like your dream was one thing, but it was not
in alignment with your passion.
Julie: I think like that was, I had such a perception of what it should be as one does at 22. And when I look at what I do now, I'm doing what I always wanted to do. I just didn't realize it. I, my passion about architecture was how the spaces can make people feel. And the museum point of view comes from being somebody with a very socially active conscience.
I wanted people to learn through spaces. Um, when I was 15, I visited Moshe Safdie did the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Jerusalem. And the power that that space had over me, admittedly, it's tied into the fact that I am a child of a Holocaust survivor, but he designed the Children's Memorial and he uses space and perception and views To relay emotion and it is so powerful and the visit to that museum changed my life.
It made me want to be an architect. It taught me about how space can influence body and emotion. And I, it was something I wanted to do. And admittedly what I do it, the way I do it now is not on anywhere the same level as what Safdie was teaching through his building. But my draw into architecture
was building to make people feel
and understanding that.
Dan: Well, and how old were you when you went
Julie: I was 15 and so there's a whole museum but there's one specific building called the Children's Memorial and you walk in and it's kind of a zigzag path so you're already kind of your perception of where you're going is distorted and then you go into a dark room and there's candles reflected in faceted mirrors so it looks like there's millions of candles but it's dark and images are projected of children and their names keep playing as you move through the space so you're not walking in a linear route.
You're zigzagging, you're not sure where there are candles and where there's reflection. You can't see perfectly. And yet this audio keeps playing. It's very emotional. And at the very end, you go through a doorway, there's a bright light and you exit onto a promenade overlooking Jerusalem. So from this dark and comfortable, distorting experience, you suddenly stand on this flat platform, like baked in sunlight with a view of hope in front of you.
And it probably takes. 10 minutes. And yet each time I visited and I go back to that, to the museum, every time I'm in Israel, it has that same deep visceral reaction and it touches all my senses and then it gets me in the stomach, you know, and it's just
so powerful.
Dan: I have never been to Jerusalem and that is just on my list now. so
thank you. Um, So the part two of that question was, okay, you reach your dream. You saw the, the restaurant designers at Tahani having more, they're not just
Julie: Yeah.
Dan: I'm just your perception as a 25 year old. You saw them having more fun at the museum of natural history, doing the restaurant.
And then you, you had an interview with him, with Adam and you brought your portfolio and. He said, this isn't what I have. This isn't what you're doing. And he said, why are you doing this? If you could go back to that time, to that conversation, do you think. Knowing what you know now said it just looked like what you're doing was more fun.
And I want to do that. I
Julie: Yeah, I think like, I mean, I also wish I could go back to that time and bottle that confidence. Cause I was like, I don't care that this is not right. I'm going to show him what I can do. And I am, I want this job and I'm going to tell him I want it. I mean, 10 years later in other interviews, I'd lost the bravado and, and, um, confidence of somebody starting out in their career who was so sure of themselves.
I also, you know, hadn't. You know, didn't know Adam too well yet and probably would have been a little more, um, reserved.
Dan: Love those conversations where you go like, okay, it worked out for you. But knowing what you know now, and the relationship that you developed with Adam, if you could go back and you're just have been, you're Yeah. Authentic, true spiritual, like being of who you are and just said, look, it just looked like what I I'm doing museums.
That's what I thought I want to do, but it just looks more fun. Like what you're doing. So as the 25 year old looking at what the Tahani designers were doing, designing, That fun space. What was it that they were doing or how were they acting that made you perceive that as fun?
Julie: they were playing with color and texture. They were making spaces that were eliciting emotion. They were creating these little jewel boxes of spaces. They weren't stuck figuring out where the rainwater downpipe should sit to not destroy the rhythm of the facade and, well, you know, there was, there was a level of fun that my very otherwise cerebral serious self was like, actually, maybe that would be a better way to engage people than trying to You know, teach them all the time.
And, and I think also just the natural realization that when
you design museums, it's the guy at the very top is
doing those very cool big gestures. The rest of
you are just implementing whereas, I mean, I worked at Vignoli for two years and it was like them little minuscule details on parties, which was amazing, but I wanted to do spaces, you know, I, I, Arrogance of youth. I want to design the space. I want to make people feel, I don't want to figure out all of these little details. And, and so I think it was where I was, my age, my just eagerness to create spaces that would make people feel that like pushed me to want to go not in these five year long, 10 year long
Dan: so you saw them like you, the work that they were
doing.
It was color and fun as you, as you perceive it. But when you looked at those designers, did you interact with them on a project team or in a project meeting? Did they look like they were having more, did they look happier or more fun than the other people sitting at the long table?
Julie: No, it was just what they were doing that looked fun. I mean, you know, I, I, I worked for Vignoli where everybody had the best time. We never stepped and went home and yet we were having fun. So I don't think, I think it was, it was just the idea that this was quicker. It wasn't going to be six years of, you know, of construction documents.
It wasn't going to be end of shreds. It was going to be like, All right, we're going to come up with a concept and we're going to go into it and then within a year I'm going to see it instead of going through each very long, very detailed phase. I think I probably had like delay of gratification syndrome at that age
Dan: okay. So then I, cause I I'm sensing a similar emotion that you had there, like this person, this fun color playfulness. Um, and then if I go back to, I think it must've been one of the first times. that I met you when you were at Starwood. So just to paint the picture for everyone, Starwood, now Marriott, but Starwood used to be, and I don't remember if it was in White Plains or Greenwich or, uh, Stanford.
But I don't remember, I think maybe I met you in White Plains, but just so everyone knows, it's basically like a
huge, standard looking, kind of office building with like, cubicles, and it's just kind of boring ish, the people that were in each cubicle were amazing, but it was just like, it was like, kind of a boring office look, right, and I remember coming to see you, And what it made me feel, as you were saying it just now, um, about before, just before you took on the Limeridean project, um, I just remember always, like, when I was a kid, when school would start and I would get my new Trapper Keeper or, like, new pens and pencils, it was like, there was a sense of excitement, but I remember going through this boring maze of cubicles and I came to you, You had the most insane, disco, crystal, beautiful wall of image.
It was like the largest mood board I've ever seen, right? It just made sense as I looked to it. And so walk me through from the time that you took that Limeridian task or job or project to the point where I met you at that point. Really kind of way more developed wall. Like what was your thinking process, like journey on getting to what I saw on that wall?
Julie: I think, you know, they positioned Limerillion, you know, around mid century modern, but the glam of mid century, you know, like, if you know George Fleck, he brought in the glam element of mid century travel and we began working From a brand that was pretty serious to giving it a bit of this more like sexy, mid century, romantic, it was in the air, you know, at the time everybody was watching Mad Men, that whole, you know, how do we bring this into a hotel brand?
And I would be researching and looking for all these beautiful images of fabrics, of travel. And, and, and I would pass to my cubicle walls that my mindset, you know, kind of went along with it and just how we, it's not a brand that's overly Bright and shiny, but it was a brand that like had a personality and how that became realized in the three dimensional.
But I was also very committed to making my space feel the way I was designing and forever changing my images. I probably printed out a small forest of trees because I was forever
changing those images I was pinning up and just wrapping myself in
the feel of
Dan: all it was I just
I don't know, all it was, I just remember so much, like. Like bling and just brightness. And it just, I feel like it lit you up too. It's just like, I just, that's like a really super clear memory for me of, of meeting you in front of that wall you created.
And, uh, yeah.
Julie: I was very passionate. I mean, I was, the ability to work with the brand team on that whole Repositioning was a once in a lifetime opportunity and I really like poured my heart and soul into it. And yeah, when I am passionate about something, I get very excited about
it.
Dan: Um, so to bring it full circle, just so you know, and also
there's so many awesome people that came from that Starwood world, but, uh, like Berman Falk was brought in with Marriott to do a new room, still mid century awesomeness with Robin Kaminsky. And it just. Opened recently in their like floor of model rooms, and I just went into it a couple weeks ago And it was it was really awesome, but I also feel like there was that feeling Executed a little differently, but I did whatever that feeling was where I saw you kind of like light up I got that feeling as Robin was walking me through the new room And it kind of like and and then if you go back to the iteration before you worked on it at Starwood um I don't know.
It's like, it's, it's a very different place from where, where it started to where it is now. But I just, I, I did get that feeling when I walked into that room and maybe it was cause of Robin, cause she's so awesome and she was just making me happy. So. But, uh, yeah, that, that's really off. That's, that was a long, I don't even know what time that was.
I also want to say, I think I've heard of you since before we first met, because most of my very good friends in this world are, all happen to be South African Jews. And I don't know why that is, but I guess
because you're amazing people. I don't want to generalize. Uh, but yeah, you're a fricking amazing people, but we just, we have a lot of like, other mutual friends from the old country that also just, I don't know, I think it just kind of smoothed out
our relationship, you, know?
Yes,
Julie: yeah. Well, I mean, I'd heard about everybody. I was not very social in the industry. I did my job and wanted nothing to do with the industry after hours. I just did my thing. And also I'd come from Africa where like we all hung out together, but we didn't mix. You know? And so. You'll understand the story because you know the person, but I start working at Starwood and of course, 6.
30 comes and I go do my thing. And one day Alia Khan walks over to my desk and she goes, Lavzy, you've got to start showing up at things. And I'm like, excuse me? She's like, Lavzy, when there are industry events, you need to show up because these are relationships you need to build. And I kind of just looked at her and if you know Alia, um, when Alia Khan tells you, you need to do something, you do something.
And so. I was like, okay. And then she would start putting invitations on my calendar. And then she got to know me and my, the fact that I move at glacial pace at any given time. Then she would put another invitation, which was like. Go to bathroom and start getting ready half an hour before she'd want me ready to go somewhere.
And I really, I credit her with making me starting to go to industry events, meeting people, because I didn't realize that like, once you're on ownership side or brand or developer, These relationships are key, you know, um, you need to be able to call the reps who you know, and say, this is what's going on.
Can I get a quicker? How do I do this? Also, you know, I said the reps know everything in the industry and who you shouldn't, shouldn't be working with. But if it wasn't for Alia, I would still have been logging out at six o'clock, maybe going to a SoulCycle class, going to see my friends and not getting involved at all.
In this amazing industry, which has got so many incredible
people. So I am always very grateful that she pulled me out of the
Dan: That's why I
Julie: with her to things.
So
Dan: She is.
Julie: I always say
I want an Ask Alia app, because if it's like anything I need, I'm always
like, oh yeah. And I'm like, I need
Dan: Oh, maybe you can get, maybe we can talk to what's that guy's name? Sam Altman at chat GBT to make an Aaliyah voice for the chat GBT thing. That'd be
great. She could always be, she could always be with us.
Julie: find out.
Dan: I would actually really like that. I was thinking, I was messing around with it, trying to think of like who.
Whose voice I would like there. And, uh, I was having, I was like really struggling. I was like, I don't know who I'd want to talk. But if I think about Alia and her lovesy, that could be the cue. Instead of, Hey Siri, I could say, Hey lovesy, can, uh, what's the best way to get from A to B? Um, okay. So
that was your transition to Starwood kind of more on the ownership management, like brand side.
Right. And then, and then you've continued on that path. And I think what's so. Awesome about that step is that you knew it was the right thing to do. Adam had said something like this door is only going to, or the door is going to open, you got to take it or it's not going to open for you again. I was actually reading, um, meditations today by Marcus Aurelius, and he said something similar there about, you know, we're, The future is uncertain, the past is, is the past, and we only have the now, and I think, and it's interesting to hear, because just a second ago, you said, you move at a glacial pace, but then this door
Julie: was
Dan: there are those times, oh, so he pushed you, otherwise you would have,
Julie: happy We were having so much fun, you know, it was the, um, yeah, you know, it's, I always joke, I say every job I take, I'm the person I hated in my last job. So when I was an architect, the interior designers would drive me mad. Then I moved to the interior architecture side, but the brand people annoyed me, but then I moved to brand.
And when you're in the brand team, the ownership doesn't matter. Groups drive you mad. So then I became an owner. And when you're an owner, the people working at the management companies annoy you. And then I went to the management company and now I'm at an owner operator manager. So I think next I'll have to go to a
demolition company because I don't know who else to be.
But yeah, I always moved to the person who annoyed me in my previous job.
Dan: well, I also like the, uh, the transition there to talk about Aspen, because, You know, using that metaphor where you were doing your dream, you were at the peak and then you're like, no, I want to try that. And Aspen being a high peak town, a ski town, and maybe that's, I went out on it on an, I went out on a limb there. What's exciting you about this transition to Aspen? Because you guys are working on some amazing stuff in Mount, in Mount, in the mountains, but also you have some cool things coming up in cities. Like tell us what that experience is like, as far as like, Getting there and doing it. I
Julie: yeah, I, this was kind of an interesting, you know, I w I was looking at different opportunities and the guys from Aspen found me and I was like, Hmm, this sounds interesting. Um, Their CMO is a good friend of mine and neighbor of yours in Westport and I trust her and she always makes smart career moves and she was excited about her job and she was like, just talk to these guys.
And then, you know, it was sort of the diversity of their portfolio. They have the little now, as people are very familiar with, the luxury hotel in Aspen, the only ski in ski out hotel in Aspen. Um, and I say that like I ski, so I'm sort of proud of myself. And, um, they When I interviewed with them, they were growing their limelight portfolio and the ability to kind of join a group as they're evolving hotels into a brand and having built a brand before, that's a passion.
But also, um, they were now developing a second Little Nell in New York. And New York is my adopted hometown. I'm not a New Yorker. I, even though I've been here more than half my life, I say it's my adopted hometown. Um, and so, And as an architect, the opportunity to build a hotel inside Rockefeller Center was just a once in a lifetime opportunity.
And I loved everybody I met and I interviewed with, and I was like, how can I walk away from this? This is such a rare, unique opportunity to get to both. Do what I know I love, building a brand, but also get to work on an iconic hotel in this iconic architectural building. So it sort of fed into two passions at once.
And so I took the leap of faith.
Dan: So I'm very intrigued by. what you have going on at Rock Center. And I know just as far as like a little point within the island of Manhattan and just the all of the um, Art Deco amazingness and St. Patrick's Cathedral and it's just like a really important kind of heart of um,
Manhattan. How do you approach that when you're working on a new project there? Because you have to pay attention to what's going around you, but you want to create and forge a new path as well.
Julie: And I think you also have to kind of pay homage and respect to the history of the space and place, right? We're, we're going into Rockefeller Center, which was this groundbreaking development and this art, you know, deco, the building in the heart of Manhattan. So how do we do that and yet deliver on. The experience that is, you know, the little Nell brand.
So it's been very exciting. I mean, it's great partners. Everything is very considered and just delivering the hotel that is both right for our company, but also right for the space and place. So, yeah.
Dan: And then to me, it also just seems like for the little Nell, it's such a specific, like in my mind, it's such a specific Aspen memory and experience. Um, what were the challenges or, um,
I guess like thought processes about how you. model that to bring it to Manhattan.
Julie: Well, I think it's, what Little Nell is about is about an ethos, right? It's about how you feel when you go in there. It's about coming off the mountain into this reprieve from your day. It's about the, the tenants of the brand, there's the bar, there's the very important wine program, but it's also just about coming into the space that like, you know, you're is relaxing and calm and luxurious and that's what we're trying to do.
We're not trying to replicate a ski hotel in Manhattan, we're trying to replicate the ethos and feel of the haven that is Little Now. So as it is your calm reprieve from your day of skiing, so this will become your reprieve from your day in the city.
Dan: If you do want a ski place
in
Manhattan, I
can't remember the
name of it. It's like at the top of Saks Fifth Avenue. There's like a restaurant. Is it
Julie: Oh, yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah. I think that's what that's supposed to be. Yeah, no, we're not, we're
not, going for theme. We're going for the,
Dan: It's more the feeling. And then as far as, do you have to like dealing with New York city or it's Tishman Spire, correct?
Julie: that they're the co owners of
Dan: Yeah. Co owner. So, um,
do you have to deal with, um, Landmarks
Julie: Yeah. We've been through landmarks already. We had an amazing, it's actually, you can find it on YouTube, an amazing landmark, um, presentation where they approved the project. Um, the, uh, Terry Despont, who unfortunately passed away last year, who lose. Company is designing it, he presented to the landmarks board.
We had many very, um, vocal, wonderful supporters and it was, we've been through landmarks, we've been through community board, we are the first hotel going through the special permit process to convert, um, office into hotel. In New York, so we're really excited about that. I think you might know this, but there is a lot of empty office space in New York City, and there is a new permit process where
you can apply to rezone. And so we are the first project going
through it.
Dan: So there's a lot that I'm actually very intrigued by that because that's come up in a lot of conversations. So there is a historic, uh, there's a challenge that many developers have wanting to convert office into hotel because of really footplate size of, of the building. What makes it work?
And you have to add so much plumbing. There's, there's too much interior dark space that like you can't have room or, or windows, which you need for a hotel. Um, what makes. Rockefeller Center, a good candidate for that conversion. And I didn't actually realize you were the first, so that's super
incredible.
Julie: really smart designers, really great interior design, really clever use of the floor plate that maximizes interior, um, the exterior frontage for all the rooms. I mean, we have beautiful bright rooms, so
we were just very fortunate with how the design came together.
Dan: But it's also not a traditional, um, when you think of New York City's, like, tall buildings, I wouldn't say skyscraper, but tall buildings, they tend to be, maximize the floor plan, or the, the plate available. And it's like, almost like half a block, or the whole side of a block. But in my mind, Rock Center, in that art deco, it's just, It's just a bit more delicate in the footprint and narrower, correct?
I'm not an architect, so you can speak to that better. Does, does the shape of it help lot more?
Julie: I think, I think there's no specific role plate for, you know, office. I think
we did just benefit from a very smart layout from our architectural designers. So
Dan: Well, I mean, that's, I can't wait for that to happen because that's really amazing. And I, I'm so happy to learn that that's the first one. I didn't know that. So thank you for sharing. Um, As you're looking kind of backward in your rear view mirror about, you know, your journey to where you are and you're looking forward at all these exciting projects up in the mountains and cities, what's exciting you most about what you see out there the future?
Julie: in my job or in general, I
Dan: You pick.
Julie: mean, in my job, it's just the diversity of what I'm getting to work on, you know, sort of, again, Rockefeller Center, who could not be excited about putting a hotel in the heart of New York City in this iconic building, but then it's also for me growing the Limelight brand and this.
Brand that, you know, it's about. You know, adventure and exploring, and I love that we're evolving it and developing it in the industry. What excites me is just how many different, you know, routes you see people going. There's the, you know, you see the traditional urban hotel, you're seeing glamping, you're seeing airstreams, like creativity is abounding.
People are exploring all different routes and all different styles of hotels and accommodation. And
I think it's exciting to see what people are doing.
Dan: And then digging into Limelight as well, also full disclosure, working on a couple of them with Berman Falk. When you said what's exciting about the Limelight brand, if you could share with everyone, like, I know you're saying adventure outdoors, but really when you get down to that, as you've said countless times, the feeling you get when you walk into a limelight or a room in a limelight or a spa in a limelight, what is the feeling?
Julie: I think the feeling that I like about it is like the best version of home. It's really comfortable. You don't have to, you don't feel that you're like have to be on ceremony or Be careful or tread lightly. It's really just warm and inviting. And you walk in there and it's like, here, this is your home away from home, the best version of place to relax.
And what I like about the properties is that in the programming with the Adventure Concierge, it's about helping you explore your locale. We provide a great room that's, you know, well sized, adequate storage for you to sleep and relax. And there's a beautiful view. Lobby space that's well programmed, but it also caters for that space of delay.
Those moments when you're not going out, but you're not yet ready to bed, you know, go to bed, it's how you can just hang out and be, if it's around a fire pit or in a game area, it takes the continuing need to know every moment of your travel, you know, every plan in your travel out of the equation. And you can just relax and enjoy the property and the space for what it is.
Dan: And who's the type of demographic that's staying there?
Julie: we're looking at the explorer traveler, the person who wants to come somewhere and explore the locale. Obviously, if you're somewhere like Aspen or Stomash, you're skiing. If you're in Ketchum, you're taking advantage of the beautiful hiking around the area. But then you're somewhere urban, like in Denver, and we can guide you around to how to see the city and explore and make the most of the city.
So we're looking to the person that Wants to relax in the hotel, but then also wants to go out, explore, and make the most of the context of where they find themselves.
Dan: And then walk me through this adventure concierge.
Julie: So that's the concierge, and they'll tell you where's the best place to go skiing in Snowmass and stop for your lunch on the mountain. Or in Denver, they can guide you to a great biking path or an interesting art museum. So we want our guests to become familiar with the hidden moments of the location that they're visiting and not just Do what they're used to doing or what they've read about in guidebooks.
We want to give them that local view so they know where to go to maximize the experience. And then as I was saying, they come back to the hotel and it's really relaxing and inviting to be in the lobby. There'll be music playing at five o'clock or there's game tables, and you really just. Can unwind and enjoy that as much as you can enjoy the exploration that you've just been on.
Dan: And I love something you just said. It was about, I forgot how you said it, but literally 30 seconds ago, but it was like the unplanned time or the time when you're between activities.
Julie: The space of delay, we call it in architecture. Yeah. It's sort of like, okay, I'm not quite ready for dinner, but I'm done with skiing. And this was something I personally enjoyed the first time I visited the limelight at Aspen, I was like, I'm done with my day. I'm not ready to eat. And then all of a sudden I run into the hotel and there's a band playing in the corner of the lobby and everybody's just relaxing and chatting and enjoying that like moment to breathe and pause.
It's sort of the idea of like, it's operate, ski everywhere. Cause that's a, you know, it's, it's that moment where you're done with your core activity and you're moving to your next one, but there's that moment of delay in between. And the spaces are really set up to enjoy that moment and connect with people and exhale before moving on to the next programmed activity.
Dan: I like the idea of that unplanned time and it's like a, like an Eddie in a river going down in those little Eddie's in the pockets that happen. Is there?
Julie: Don't talk like I know what's going on in outdoor activities, please. It's
Dan: Oh, I know. Well, that's why I explained it's a river and Eddie, not a person. Come on, Julie. I, uh, I'm curious if that moment of delay. Is that through all of your brands? So for instance, like in Rock Center, how are you addressing that moment of delay? Because I would imagine everyone coming to New York, staying in Rock Center.
It's, there's not a lot of delay. You're hitting the ground running. Correct.
Julie: I think Nell versus, the Nell brand versus Limelight, the Nell brand is about luxury. It's about taking your time. It's about moving at the pace when you're ready. It's about being very comfortable to linger. Um, or it is about moving. If you want to be going quickly, quickly, quickly, then that it's, it's about how you are programming your day.
Limelight's about the adventure where you're kind of just letting the day roll with you, you know what you want to do, but then the other things are happen circumstance and kind of providing these elements in the lobby allow for that. There's the video games, there's the live music, there's shuffleboard.
You don't know that you're going to get engaged, be engaged in that until you see it and you're like, wow, this is just this fun way. To go from one moment to the next about. You know, rushing.
Dan: Now, as we're all rushing through our lives, just trying to get things done and hotels open, um, if you were to go back in time to that younger version of yourself before Adam Tahani. Kind of said, you got to seize the day and take this opportunity. What advice do you have for your younger self?
Julie: Um, I would tell her to definitely take that job at Rockwell. Cause that was the most fun you're ever going to have in a design firm. I would tell her to definitely take that job at Starwood because you got so lucky to get to travel and experience amazing cultures, but I think I would tell her what, what I was most afraid of at each junction in my career is what I would tell her turned out to be the best.
Best moments was that every time there's a pivot, I never took the same route. I changed directions and took a chance because you know what you can do, but you never know what you can't do unless you try. And I was always so scared of pivoting my career because I thought I had to go from this film to this film to do this, to do that.
If you had told 20 something Julie, she would end up client side looking at spreadsheets. She would have thought you were mad. She would have hated herself and she would never have had a. You're seeing that it doesn't have to be preplanned. Every opportunity, you got to take it. And if it doesn't work out, go back to what you were doing before.
Cause you know, you can do that. And if you do a job well, you can always go back to it. But if you don't take a chance on a different route, you'll never know what's there and what you can do, you know, what you can do.
Dan: Yeah, I think we'll have to call this like the sliding door episode, because I really love how Adam in a way, just help push you through the sliding door. And I think it's amazing. Like, I think all of us, if we just go through our lives, like look back and think of how many of those, we don't have many, but how many of those sliding door moments are there and kind of think about what that alternate history could be or the counterfactual, I don't know.
It's kind of, it's, it's a fun exercise. If you can remember those moments,
Julie: you know, it's so interesting as I don't remember much, but I remember so clearly my breakfast with Adam when we had that conversation, you know, and he was, and the other person I spoke to at the time, I remember thinking like, this was like, I'm on design side. I am such a designer. I, I'm so kind of dismissive of people who go to corporate jobs.
But then I was like, who's the one client that I really like? And it happened to be Mark Bokenheide, who at the time was at Related. And I'd worked with him when I was at Rockwell and he was my client on the, um, gosh, the, I'm going to forget the name. The hotel with the chandelier bar in it in Vegas. Cosmo, yes.
And Mark was my client and I worked on the chandelier bar, that was my last project at Rockwell. And Mark was such a great client and every meeting with him was like, you just, he had such wise feedback. And I remember Emailing him saying like, Hey, I have this opportunity. You're the only person that I know that I really respect who's switched sides.
Can you talk to me? And everybody called me, I think he was washing his car. It was a car wash in New Jersey. And he's like, I got an hour. Let's talk. And I always remember Adam's force with, you know, pushing me to the right decision and Mark's patience with talking me through it. And I'll always like, those are two conversations that are now probably almost 20 years ago.
And I'm so grateful that they took the time to encourage me. And I'm glad that. 20 something Julie was listening because she didn't listen too much and I'm glad that she heard those two voices.
Dan: Oh, I've never heard a bad thing ever said about Mark Bokenheim.
Julie: Yeah.
Dan: I should reach out to him. It's been a while. Where is he now?
Julie: These were sans.
Dan: in Asia most of the time. That's where I thought he was. Okay,
Julie: Yeah. Or in Vegas. Yeah.
Dan: or Asia. Oh,
Julie: It's seldom. I mean, I, I now I'm client side and I'm sure that like, I don't know many people who sit client side other than Mark and probably Helen Yorkes and the people talk about with like, you don't hear bad words said about them and that's where I'd like to be.
Cause you can do, you don't have to always be a pushover, but if you do your job the right way, your designers will always respect you. You
Dan: yeah, that's true. And well, I'll be sure never to say a bad thing about you.
Julie: can, it's okay. If it's, if it's warranted, I'll take it.
Dan: No,
Julie: thick skinned, you know, some of the jobs I've had, I am thick skinned.
Dan: it's also amazing, like, it's just wonderful to think about, like, those, aside from the sliding door moments, just those, Like, I bet you that conversation that Mark had with you while he was going through a car wash seemed like nothing. And that's just like what he's doing, but it had such a profound impact on you.
I don't, that's a really interesting thing to think about. Cause there's so many times where just in passing, I'm talking to someone or someone asked me for advice or my experience. And I don't, I just say what I say. And then like 10 years later, they'll say, Oh my God, you just totally made me think differently and put me on a different path.
Thank you. I was like, wow. I had no idea, but I'm glad
Julie: It is. It's like, I mean, it's credit to you that you said something that may have helped a person maybe make a pivot because you gotta, you know, like something's got to resonate, especially when you're like in the throngs of an intense decision for a person, you know, to make those moves. And I know for me, and probably something I, and I say this whenever I'm asked by younger people, like in my career, it's like, I feel really blessed to have amazing mentors who I can turn to for advice.
And some are in my same swim lane, some are tendential, but I feel really blessed. And so I will always take the phone call if somebody wants to ask an opinion or talk, because I was so lucky to have those people who spoke and talked to me when I was stuck making decisions and kind of the career, the, the, the switch to go to Starwood was that.
big pivotal shift and, you know, Adam and Mark were so key in that. But then my most recent job, I was looking at two different opportunities and I kept Brad Wilson on the phone for ages. I think David was in the background and he popped in and I was just struggling to come to the right decision. And it helps to have like these two people who I really trusted, who were desperately trying to eat dinner and cook at their house, but on the phone with me to help me clarify my thinking.
And I'll never say no to a conversation because I've been so lucky to have these types of people who will always avail themselves for me.
Dan: And let's not forget to mention Larry Schneid for the fourth time.
Julie: I mean, Larry Schneid. I mean, how can we not mention Larry Schneid? If I, if I didn't know Larry Schneid, the Dobbins would never have given me a ride from Vail to the airport, and I wouldn't have this amazing, wonderful family in my life, and I wouldn't have you either.
Dan: Here we are. Thank you, Larry. I actually spoke to him briefly this weekend. So Larry, I'm going to speak to you again after I hang up. Um, but Julie, this has been so wonderful and thank you for your time. I know how crazy and busy your everything is going and just all the hotels that you're opening and you're, you have to be everywhere.
What's that movie? Everywhere, all at once, all things, everywhere, all at once.
Julie: You know, that movie keeps coming up on the plane. I've never watched it. And I remember when I was at Highgate and Paul McElroy, who was my then boss, saw that movie and he's like, you need to go see this movie. And it's like, right now, my, my watch, my options on Delta are very limited because I really watched everything and I just can't commit to that movie.
Dan: that movie was so freaking deep for me. I watched it once. I got to watch it again. It was all about kind of self and all the different battles within ourselves and just being our true self. And it, I guess you could look at it on the surface level as like a sci fi movie, but it really stuck, struck me in a big way.
So everything, everywhere, all at once. That's what it is.
Julie: See, there's nothing deep about me. When I'm on airplanes, I'm like, I just, yeah, I need to be entertained.
Dan: Yeah, but it is entertaining as well. But Julie, if people wanted to learn more about you or Aspen Hospitality, what's the best way for them to get in touch?
Julie: Well, Aspen Hospitality, look on our website. Aspen, I'm going to give you the right website because
Dan: Yeah, we'll get it in the
Julie: when they do
Dan: to look there. We'll, we'll
Julie: Okay, so definitely look at the African Hospitality website. You'll see about Nell, you'll see about Limelight, all the opportunities and all the exciting work coming up. Me, um, email me, LinkedIn.
I, you know, shoot me a note. I respond. Sometimes, you know, there's a space of delay, but I always do respond.
Dan: Got it. Um, well, thank you. This has been just so wonderful. Um, thank you. I appreciate you. And thanks for putting yourself out there and sharing your experience.
Julie: Thank you for having me. This was fun.
Dan: And thank you to all of our listeners, because without you, we wouldn't be here talking to amazing people like Julie and reminiscing about Larry.
That was funny. And, um, yeah, keep tuning in and we have a newsletter, so subscribe and I there's so much good learning from all of these conversations and I'm just so happy to be able to share them with everyone and impact everyone. And mostly for my guests for willing to share their experience to impact others.
So I thank you and I thank everyone and we'll catch you next time.