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The Best Ever Podcast with Scott Eblin is your insider’s guide to what it takes to lead at the highest level at work, at home, and in your community. Each week, Scott sits down with remarkable leaders for real, revealing conversations about the mindset shifts, self-management habits, and everyday routines that fuel extraordinary leadership impact. Drawing on his 25 years of experience as a top executive coach, Scott brings a coach’s lens to every episode to help you bridge the gap between intention and action.
Scott - 00:00:10:
Welcome to Best Ever, the show where we explore how effective self-management creates the foundation for positive leadership outcomes. I'm Scott Ublit, and in every episode, I sit down with notable leaders to uncover the routines, mindset shifts, and strategies that have helped them lead at the highest level, and the difference that's made for their organizations, families, and communities. Today I'm talking with Craig Mullaney, a former Army Airborne Ranger, a Rhodes Scholar, and a New York Times bestselling author of The Unforgiving Minute: A Soldier's Education. Craig has led troops in combat, taught at the U.S. Naval Academy, advised top government officials on national security, and played key roles in tech giants like Meta and Coherent. He's someone with a wide breadth of leadership experience as a practitioner, teacher, and advisor. Going to tap into all of Craig's experience to get his insights on the connection between effective self-management and positive leadership outcomes today on Best Ever. So Craig, welcome. I am excited to have you here. Very, very excited to have you here. Known you. We're not best friends, but we've known each other for a number of years. Gosh, I guess several years ago, I interviewed for Fast Company Magazine. You gave me some great insights on how to conduct an after-action review and how the Army does that and how they can apply to corporate world. But that actually gets into the first question I wanted to ask you, which just, you know, there's so much that can be said about your career and accomplishments. Craig, you're an Army Ranger, a Rhodes Scholar, a New York Times bestselling author. Former Fortune 500 executive, strategic advisor to top executives. I mean, that just scratches the surface, basically. I'm really curious, like when you're meeting for someone for the first time, like at a cocktail party, and they ask you to tell them about yourself, how do you summarize all that? Like, what do you say?
Craig - 00:02:06:
I know. I probably start with the more relatable things. I live in Maryland. I'm a father of four kids. I work in technology and in my spare time, I like to play the guitar and learning piano.
Scott - 00:02:22:
Yeah. Do you ever get to the other stuff? And if you get to the other stuff, how do you get there? How does that come up?
Craig - 00:02:27:
Well, usually the hardest question is like, oh, you know, tell me about your career. And then I have to be like. Okay, it's... I've had a non-linear career path. I began in public service in the Army and in government. And then transition into tech roles. And I've been in the... Small startup tech companies up to one of the largest public technology companies, and now I'm somewhere in between helping grow. Medium-sized technology company. That you've never heard of, but is really important to modern life.
Scott - 00:03:06:
And I'll just say for anybody not watching on YouTube, you are repping the brand today with your Coherent... Sweater vest, I guess. Tell us a little bit about Coherent does and what's your role at Coherent these days.
Craig - 00:03:18:
Yeah. I'm a Chief of Staff to our CEO, Jim Anderson. Coherent. It's probably a company you've never heard of, but... We're the world's largest photonics company, which means we are the masters of the photon, the sort of particle of light. And it's a really magical... Physical element that is central to the way we communicate. We can shape light to cut materials and transform materials. There's about 400 of our lasers and most smartphones. So if you do facial recognition, modern banking, there's a whole array of lasers that's scanning your face, vet eye surgery, a loved one who's had... Any sort of degenerative brain disease. It's Coherent lasers that do sort of the three-dimensional microscopy to look at a neuron. And try to understand how we treat those diseases better.
Scott - 00:04:25:
All right. So that's pretty amazing. I mean, so you're a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure you're not an electrical engineer. No. I'm pretty sure you're not a particle physicist. How did you get this job at Coherent? I think the last thing you were doing, if I remember right, you were at Brunswick Advisors, right? An advisor, as the title would suggest, to CEOs and managing their presence on social media and elsewhere. Is that right? You did the same thing at Meta.
Craig - 00:04:51:
Yeah, I mean, helping companies and their leaders navigate transformational moments for their company. So it's often a crisis. You understanding who your stakeholders are, whether they're investors, employees, communities, companies are in. And, I love technology and I've worked with a number of technology companies inside technology companies because apart from policy, I think it's a- It's the other main lever that changes the world.
Scott - 00:05:22:
So how did you end up at Coherent? What was the path from Brunswick to being the chief of staff in this master of photons company?
Craig - 00:05:31:
Uh, well, it's actually, uh, it's, it's a path goes back to Rhode Island. So like, you know, I, I grew up in. I grew up in Rhode Island and I went to one of the Catholic schools in Rhode Island that's well known for its sports success. And there's another high school, our rival, LaSalle Academy. And the previous CEO of Coherent, went to that school. And my wife met Chuck, Chuck Mattera, the previous CEO. And I said, any chance you're from Rhode Island? And he said, how'd you know? You've got the same accent as my in-laws. I said, oh yeah. Then he got to talking. He said, I'd love to meet your husband one day. We started speaking, and there was an opportunity to help the company creating a chief of staff role for the first time.
Scott - 00:06:30:
Okay. So in a minute, I want to get to kind of where it began for you. In your adult years, your Army career, and talk about that a little bit. Before we go there, I mean, again, we've sort of talked about this from the jump. You've done so many different things in so many different fields at still a relatively young age. You're not even 50 yet, right?
Craig - 00:06:54:
Nope.
Scott - 00:06:54:
Yeah, you'll get there. I'm sure you're really healthy. But the premise of Best Ever, of this show, is that there's this inextricable connection between the way you manage yourself and the quality of your leadership outcomes, not just at work, but... At home and in the broader community, however you define that. And I'm curious for you, you're a really thoughtful, intentional person. What are the characteristics that you're shooting for when you're in your unique version of peak performance mode? What's the short list for you, like when you're really in the zone?
Craig - 00:07:31:
Being well-rested is... Super important to me. I've been on both ends of that spectrum. One of the things they do in Ranger School to try to induce the stress level you might have in a combat situation is to deprive you of both sleep and calories. So over the course of a... Anywhere from 60 to 100 plus days of Ranger School, you're averaging three hours of sleep a night. You can see in the other Rangers. Extreme deterioration of performance. Physical performance and mental performance. You know, as you take away sleep and you observe it in yourself. The takeaways are you can go a lot further than you think you can, and you can push a team much further than you think you can. But there are limits, and there are real detrimental effects. Not being well rested. And that really hit home. That really hit home for me. And in my experience taking troops to Afghanistan and, you know, in my early Army and Army career. I knew that we would be at our best performance if we were all rested. So it is very rare for me to have a night without seven to eight hours of sleep.
Scott - 00:08:55:
That's the recommended minimum is seven hours. Yeah.
Craig - 00:08:59:
Now, there are times when you have to... In the proverbial midnight oil. Even in a crisis situation, I'll usually find a way-
Scott - 00:09:11:
To go for seven. Yeah. Yeah. So well-rested. What else is, you know, when you're in peak performance mode, what else?
Craig - 00:09:17:
Exercise is really important to me. So I exercise most days of the week. I'm just not in as good a mood if I'm not. If I don't get my exercise in, it's a stress relief. It's another area where I do some goal setting. I don't have as much of a social element to my exercises as I had when I was younger. So I miss that, being part of a team. And nutrition, I guess those are some of the basics.
Scott - 00:09:49:
Yeah, yeah. Are there characteristics that you have found are representative of you? I mean, those are some routines that you do to put yourself in peak performance zone. Are there characteristics that best describe you when you're there? Have you thought about that?
Craig - 00:10:07:
Focused.
Scott - 00:10:08:
Mm-hmm.
Craig - 00:10:09:
Um, Present. Creative.
Scott - 00:10:13:
Hmm.
Craig - 00:10:15:
Long-sighted.
Scott - 00:10:16:
Long-sighted. I mean, taking a long view, kind of, bigger picture.
Craig - 00:10:21:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:10:22:
Yeah. Okay.
Craig - 00:10:22:
Um, yeah. Yeah, finding the right. Balance of give and take in a conversation or a group sort of-
Scott - 00:10:31:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Craig - 00:10:32:
Session. I think when I'm... When I'm not so well rested. I'm not at peak performance, I'm much less patient. And when I'm impatient and I want to get to the answer right away, you sort of skip the solution discovery process. That can sort of like push away what might be an unexpected and good idea and better path forward. And also, you know, it turns off your colleagues if you're dismissive, you come in with all the answers and you put them in execution mode rather than partner mode.
Scott - 00:11:14:
Yeah, very good. Pretty consistent from arena to arena, work, home, community, in terms of focused and present and partnering mode and things like things you mentioned.
Craig - 00:11:28:
You know, you put it, you started the question with like, when you're at, when you're at your peak. Yeah. Like, I'm not always at my peak. I certainly, I struggle, like a lot of people, with being as present as I would like to be outside of a work setting, putting the phone away. Just shifting into that. Home zone from the works. I'm working from home. Working remotely today. It's, you know, it takes more effort. To close the door to my office and put work aside.
Scott - 00:12:06:
Mm-hm.
Craig - 00:12:06:
Particularly, I work for a company in California. So 6- my 9 p.m., is the end of the workday in California.
Scott - 00:12:14:
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So I want to go back a little bit. Way before California and what you're doing today. If my math is right, it's been about 24 years since you led the platoon in Afghanistan. Is that right?
Craig - 00:12:31:
It's 2003, so 22 years.
Scott - 00:12:34:
22 years. Okay, 22 years. So, as I mentioned earlier, you've written a New York Times bestselling book on that experience. I think it came out in 2009 or thereabouts called The Unforgiving Minute: A Soldier's Education. Is that the subtitle? Yeah, very good. And that book, it's a great book. I read it several years ago, recommend it to everyone. It culminates in a deadly firefight. That you led your platoon and you lost some, some men. Extreme pressure. Maybe share a little bit about that experience. And I'm particularly interested in hearing about What did you learn from that experience 22 years ago that still informs your approach to self-management and leadership two decades later?
Craig - 00:13:25:
That's a big question. Yeah. Maybe we'll set the scene a bit. For those who haven't read the book, I try not to give away the all the suspense. Yes, we were involved in about a 12-hour firefight on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Where our unit had been ambushed. By some combination of Al-Qaeda, Taliban, quote-unquote bad guys. We respond to that ambush. You sort of... Fought back. Ultimately, the other guys had a much worse day than we did. Um, but one of my, one of my soldiers, Evan O'Neill was a private first class. From outside of Boston was killed in that firefight. It. Really rattled. Platoon and you know, of course me it was the first casualty that we'd had in Afghanistan for our company. He was well-liked in the platoon. And what? You know, seemed to be going through the minds of, you know, all of us who were involved were. What could I have done differently? Survivor's guilt of why Emma not me. Some degree of fear, whether expressed or not, about going back out. Going back out on the trail, going on the next mission. So you're processing all that. You're processing all that, like, grief and emotion and second guessing, but it's, you know, you don't have a pause button in combat. Like the hits just keep coming. It's, um... We were back out in a... Another difficult firefight just days later. It took several years and the writing of the book for me to start to process. That experience, the totality of… the experiences I had in Afghanistan. In my military training. Um, and I think one of the... One of the correct, one of the changes I had to make in the way that I thought. Was a really bad assumption. That as a leader, you're in control. I'm sure there are instances where leaders can control all the variables and are completely culpable for the outcome. But, Combat is a complex system. The enemy has a vote. There are many variables that are outside of your control. Most of the variables are outside of your control. That's not to say that you can't. Do everything in your power to prepare. To make the best decisions in the moment and to train and develop a great team. But to hold oneself accountable. Entirely, that's sort of like a path to really being sort of paralyzed and unable to make decisions. Because you never have perfect information. You don't control all the variables. You've got to make the best call you can. And sometimes it's not going to work. And sometimes it's not going to work out the way you want.
Scott - 00:17:09:
Sure. It seems like there's a process. I would guess there's a process of acceptance. Accepting that fact? I mean, is that, part of the journey in your experience?
Craig - 00:17:21:
Yeah, I think there's a... It's an acceptance and it's the acceptance of your... Your fallibility and imperfection and mood for grace.
Scott - 00:17:30:
You talked about combat as the ultimate unique experience, I would imagine. I haven't experienced it myself. But you've been an advisor to a lot of executives who... Maybe feel like they're in combat, even though the comparison is a weak comparison. How do you... How do you advise them on what they can control and what they can't and to come to terms with that? To lead from an appropriate stance. Given what they can and can't control.
Craig - 00:18:08:
Maybe the closest parallel is when you're in a crisis scenario in an organization. You've lost a major customer. There's an emergency in a plant. It's easier in a business context than in a combat context to take, some of the emotion out of the. Out of the situation. For one, you're not usually physically in peril. When you're in the center of the storm. It's not particularly helpful to do a root analysis of how you got to the center of the storm. It's that having that sense of, presence. That we are where we are. We need to appreciate the moment that we're in right now. But it's about how you move forward. The most helpful analysis in the middle of a crisis is about what your options are. Sort of the branch and sequels of those options. And to leave the Monday morning quarterbacking to leave the after-action review until the crisis is. Yeah.
Scott - 00:19:29:
Let's not try it. Yeah. Do the blame game in the middle of it, right? Yeah.
Craig - 00:19:35:
And... When you're an outside advisor, you're not inside the organization. You never... You're never totally inside the fold. I think where I have been value-add to the team or where I've gotten positive feedback is, you stay calm and collected. You can... You know, apply cold analysis to the... To the options with a positive but not a foolhardy attitude. And that's really grounding for a team that feels like the ground has been is not certain underneath them.
Scott - 00:20:18:
Yeah. One of the things I wanted to ask you about, and we... Had a little laugh about not being a particle physicist or an electrical engineer and working at the photon Masters, Coherent. So as you mentioned, you're the chief of staff and the strategic advisor to your CEO, Jim. What's his last name again?
Craig - 00:20:35:
Anderson.
Scott - 00:20:36:
Anderson, right. Coherent and, what have you learned about how to lead and add value? You said you love technology, but you're not really a technologist yourself. What have you learned about leading and adding value in a highly, highly technical organization like Coherent? When you're not the subject matter expert? How do you... I think some of the stuff you just said probably leads to that, but what is it exactly?
Craig - 00:21:00:
There's a value for generalists. Highly specific and technical environments. And being able to communicate across domains of expertise and understand across domains of expertise. Something that's pretty. Being a good advisor or chief of staff isn't necessarily about having all the answers. It's mostly about how do you ask the right questions? And how do you get answers and actions out of a team? Which players need to be involved in this issue. What does a project plan look like to get this done? How do we translate something that's super complex and technical? How do we find the essence of the issue and be able to communicate it to our, investors or customer or even our employees. It doesn't require a PhD in engineering. It helps if you're interested in the topic, which I'm very interested in, and I spend a lot of time. Talking to our... Our CTO, our head of our different business divisions, and they're very patient at explaining complex ideas and technical issues. But I've also, at this point in my career, I'm confident in what value I can add to the conversation.
Scott - 00:22:30:
How do you summarize it? In the length of what used to be called a tweet, I guess it still is, how do you summarize your value at Coherent?
Craig - 00:22:40:
A typical org chart for a CEO has one CEO at the center, and then everyone's connected to them by a... By a solid line. And then great chief of staff. Takes that hub-and-spoke model and connects all the spokes together.
Scott - 00:22:59:
Okay. I love that. So that's a great visual. I could see you visualizing that while you're formulating the answer, actually. Rewind it to Facebook and... Probably some comparable work you did at, um, Brunswick. I think I met you first when you were still at Facebook. And my recollection is you were the guy at Facebook who advised major public figures. I think Bill Clinton comes to mind. On how to use Facebook to get their message out. This was when people were still figuring it out, right? Do I have that right? That's what you did there?
Craig - 00:23:36:
Yeah, I don't think I ever advised Bill Clinton. Yeah, there used to be a number of folks at Facebook that were the interface between all the company's products, Instagram, Facebook, etc.
Scott - 00:23:53:
Yeah.
Craig - 00:23:55:
And public figures and helping them sort of adapt to a new world of influence.
Scott - 00:24:01:
Right. That's a really apt way to frame out a new world of influence. Which has become a pretty fraught. Environment, you know, moving at extremely rapid speed and can get pretty nasty pretty quickly. How do you summarize your counsel? Putting your old hat on? How do you summarize your counsel to leaders who want to put their best foot forward when they engage online?
Craig - 00:24:26:
Start small. So don't expect to come out the gates as... The next, uh, influencer with 3 million followers and pitch-perfect content. So you got to start somewhere and don't let perfect be the enemy of good, is to get help. So whether that's a... Reverse mentorship arrangements or maybe a younger person on your staff who's a digital native, or social media native. Help them help you express your voice through a medium that maybe you're not so comfortable with. Is three be consistent? So, you know, I've seen lots of examples that don't work. Someone starts by posting... Daily for two weeks and then disappears.
Scott - 00:25:23:
Run out of gas, yeah.
Craig - 00:25:24:
And run out of gas, so.
Scott - 00:25:25:
Mm-hmm.
Craig - 00:25:26:
You know, be... Pick your pace, start slow, you know, and just, it's like exercise, I guess. You know, you're not going to come out and run a marathon. You start running a mile every, you know, every couple days, and then you build up over time.
Scott - 00:25:43:
Yeah, yeah.
Craig - 00:25:45:
And I guess the last part is it's, think of it as a conversation, a community, not as a bullhorn. A one-way speech.
Scott - 00:25:56:
So receive as much as you transmit? Does that-
Craig - 00:25:59:
What happens in the comments and your engagement with your community is really important. And that draws people in.
Scott - 00:26:11:
Yeah. Any advice about keeping your cool under pressure on social media? Because there's a lot of trolls out there.
Craig - 00:26:24:
Yeah, you know, I think it was like President Lincoln who had this habit of when he wanted to write a really nasty reply, he'd write the letter and then put it in a drawer to send the next day.
Scott - 00:26:37:
Yeah, I love that story.
Craig - 00:26:38:
You've got to find the 21st century equivalent of that for you. So I always schedule my posts. If I'm upset about something, I'll vent about it in a different environment that's not part of the permanent record.
Scott - 00:26:53:
Yeah. Yeah. You're a top voice on LinkedIn, I think, right? Designated top voice. Yeah. How long have you been on LinkedIn actively, and what's your personal strategy there?
Craig - 00:27:04:
I don't know when I started at LinkedIn, and I think LinkedIn is older than Facebook.
Scott - 00:27:09:
I think it is, actually, yeah.
Craig - 00:27:11:
So, I mean, as long as I can remember being... I guess, professionally engaged, at least since I left the Army, I've been using LinkedIn.
Scott - 00:27:20:
What's your goal there? What do you hope to do? What have you done? What do you hope to do through your presence on LinkedIn?
Craig - 00:27:28:
I mean, it's a way I stay connected to my extended professional network. It's a... You know, three of the most satisfying years in my professional life were teaching at the Naval Academy, and I love teaching. There is a huge audience of younger people. Who are just hungry for advice and wisdom. I don't know that I have much wisdom, but I have, you know, free advice. And, it is. LinkedIn is a place where I can, you know, share what I think are takeaways from my career. I love when I hear from younger folks on LinkedIn.
Scott - 00:28:09:
Yeah.
Craig - 00:28:10:
Like two days ago, I got a really long a letter in the form of a LinkedIn message from someone who'd read my book. And where it had changed their... Changed their whole life. They read it, they decided to pursue military service. And that is, you know, anyone who's written. Anyone who's written a book. Knows how satisfying it is when, you know, someone has not just sort of read your book, but it's had a real impact on them. Because it is. It's a lot of work.
Scott - 00:28:44:
It is a lot of work. I have to confess, one of my favorite things is when I do a speaking engagement or a leadership workshop. Based on my next level book and somebody comes up to me and they bring it in. It's got all kinds of post-it note tabs in it and they'll show it to me. Look at all the tabs, look at all the highlights I've made. Oh my God. Yeah, I got one. Yeah, totally. So I love the fact that you brought up the young people that you hope you're reaching and helping with your free advice on LinkedIn, because that's a good pivot to—I want to get a little bit more personal with you. So some of the things we haven't talked about with your history as a kid, you were a wrestler. Pretty committed to wrestling. You went to West Point. I don't think we've mentioned that yet. At West Point, you remember the sport parachute team. And how many jumps did you make as a member of the sport parachute team?
Craig - 00:29:38:
About 450.
Scott - 00:29:40:
That's what I read, yeah, 450. At Oxford, as a Rhodes Scholar, you earned not just one master's degree, but two in your time there. And if I remember correctly, you completed Army Ranger School with a dislocated shoulder. Is that right?
Craig - 00:29:55:
I, yes. I dislocated my shoulder multiple times during Ranger School and paid the price.
Scott - 00:30:05:
Yeah, okay. But you finished. That's the point.
Craig - 00:30:08:
I did finish.
Scott - 00:30:09:
So I'm going to make an unprofessional diagnosis. You are a driven individual. That's a lot of drive, no matter how you slice it, wrestler, West Point, parachute. 450 jumps, you know, all that. Dislogated shoulder, Ranger School. Where's that come from? That drive is it- Are you born with it? Has it developed over the years? How has it changed over the years? Tell me about... Engine that keeps moving you forward.
Craig - 00:30:36:
It's probably a better question for my mother. I think she'd say that I was there's a certain element of being born with that. With that drive, like always looking for a challenge. It's part of my DNA. I like to find hard things keep me interested. And motivate me. Um, you know, whether they are in the public domain or not.
Scott - 00:31:06:
There's a really interesting column in the New York Times this morning as we record this in March of 2025. Physiogenics, I think that's the name. Have you heard that term before? It's this new field where it's taking on the question, is it nature or is it nurture? The answer is it's both. You have the genetic disposition somewhere in your markers. There's a genetic disposition in your case to be driven. And then it's reinforced by your mother, maybe, or the environmental factors. Uh, you kind of self-select into environments where it is reinforced is sort of the premise of, as I understand it from the article.
Craig - 00:31:48:
Right. Part of it's nature, and I can see it in my siblings, so there's got to be something to that coincidence. It's also all the people along the way in my path who have pushed me, coached me, pulled me up, advised me. Mr. Grandchamp was one of my wrestling coaches when I was a little kid. My high school history and religious studies teachers who really pushed me, you know, pushed me intellectually. All of the mentors that at West Point, my parents and the example that they set for hard work. So I don't take any of that. I don't take any of that for granted. I'm not a believer in the, I don't think people pull themselves up by the bootstraps. There's a lot of people who push you along the way.
Scott - 00:32:43:
Yeah, for sure. Is the drive 100% beneficial or are there downsides to it?
Craig - 00:32:51:
There are downsides. Like, my wife would say I'm fundamentally unable to relax. Fully relax. I, you know, try to go on a beach vacation and lay down on a chair, and, you know I'll turn it into like, well, I've got to finish a book this week while I have this time or, Surely I can optimize this vacation with just the right activities and find the right restaurants to go to and so forth. And, you know, I think my kids sometimes would like it if I was just... You know, dad and not always, pushing them to... Expand their boundaries.
Scott - 00:33:39:
You guys have four kids, right?
Craig - 00:33:41:
Yeah, four boys.
Scott - 00:33:43:
What's age- Boys, wow. What's the age range?
Craig - 00:33:46:
14, 12, 10, and 4.
Scott - 00:33:48:
Okay, pretty active household then.
Craig - 00:33:52:
Very active.
Scott - 00:33:55:
I want to talk a little bit before we wrap up. In the next 10 minutes or so. About I guess for lack of a better term, your personal training plan. I'm a big believer that... The routines that we have in our life. Have a big impact on how we show up, you know, and, and. Some version of peak performance, ideally. You know, we're not always there, like you said earlier. So, four domains. Physical, you've talked a little bit about the sleep and... Nutrition and exercise, but also there, I think there are probably mental routines, relational routines. You mentioned your family, your wife and your boys. Spiritual routines, however you want to define spiritual. What stands out for you in your training program and what's really helped? Beyond the physical routines that you mentioned, what else is, helping you. Be the guy you want to be. Be the leader you want to be. All the above.
Craig - 00:34:52:
I mean, my face. Yeah. Being a part of, but- Member of All Saints Church nearby in Chevy Chase, and that's a really important community and source of strength and encouragement for me, and it's gotten me through the darkest periods. Is a venue where I can lift up other people. And so that's a frequent destination for me and our family.
Scott - 00:35:26:
So it sounds like the community aspect of that is really vital for you.
Craig - 00:35:31:
Yeah, the community, the daily to the degree. Daily prayer is important. I don't always hit the mark.
Scott - 00:35:40:
Yeah. Yeah, but I was talking to somebody earlier this week. Yeah, daily prayer would be the 100% goal, but... If you miss a couple of days and you still hit five, that's better than none, right?
Craig - 00:35:52:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:35:54:
Yeah. Yeah.
Craig - 00:35:55:
Yeah, I mean, family, both time together as a group, and then I really, really have come to value the time I spend one-on-one with each of my children.
Scott - 00:36:04:
Really?
Craig - 00:36:06:
With my siblings, time with my mother, with Tomoko. I think your spouse is the most important relationship in that equation.
Scott - 00:36:15:
Yeah, yeah. What are you and Tomoko? Do with each other? Do you have a date night or how does it work for the team to stay connected as husband and wife and not just mom and dad?
Craig - 00:36:28:
Yeah, we usually end every day talking to each other. Probably once a week we get out together somewhere, usually for a meal or a coffee or a walk. You know, we like to go to comedy shows when great comedians come through the Kennedy Center. I love going to concerts, and so I'll drag Timoko to concerts, even if she doesn't love the band.
Scott - 00:36:55:
Okay, so let me stop here for a second. Favorite comedian and best most recent concert?
Craig - 00:37:01:
Oh. Jon Stewart is my favorite comedian.
Scott - 00:37:06:
Yeah.
Craig - 00:37:08:
And John Oliver is probably a close second.
Scott - 00:37:11:
Okay, closely related, yeah.
Craig - 00:37:13:
Yeah. And then with a favorite, Music venue?
Scott - 00:37:18:
Yeah, best concert you've been to lately. Best band, best performer, musically.
Craig - 00:37:22:
Yeah, I saw the Rolling Stones at Levi’s-
Scott - 00:37:24:
I did too. I saw them at Mile High on our anniversary last year. Did you like it?
Craig - 00:37:31:
That was spectacular.
Scott - 00:37:31:
Yeah, yeah.
Craig - 00:37:32:
If that doesn't motivate you, if an 80-year-old can get on stage and rock for hours.
Scott - 00:37:38:
It was nonstop. Mick Jagger was nonstop in that show. It was awesome. Yeah, yeah. And Keith Richards was a little more stationary, but he's up there. Yeah, that's awesome. So you mentioned guitar, and then you also mentioned piano. You had a great post on LinkedIn a year or so ago, within the last year, I think, about playing piano at a recital. And I think it was you and other kids at the recital, right? I mean, it wasn't like other kids. You're only a kid, you and some kids at the recital.
Craig - 00:38:09:
Every kid got up and introduced themselves saying, like, I'm five years old, and I'm going to play Beethoven, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I'm Craig Mullaney, and I'm 46, and, I'll be playing for you.
Scott - 00:38:23:
What got you into piano at age 46? That's a tough ask.
Craig - 00:38:29:
So, you know, one, my kids were playing piano. Two, in part because they were playing, we bought a piano which sits 10 feet outside of my office door. And three, I love listening to piano and classical music, but I never had any music education. You know, beyond what they teach you in a classroom growing up. So I wanted to learn. I wanted to explore this domain where I appreciated listening, but I never made any of my own music. It, um, It's humbling trying to learn any instrument in your 40s because your fingers and your brain are not connected as easily as it is when you're a little kid. Like music theory, I actually find pretty hard.
Scott - 00:39:20:
Yeah, it is.
Craig - 00:39:21:
Yeah. And But it has opened up all these layers of appreciating music that I, didn't found them before.
Scott - 00:39:31:
Mm-hmm.
Craig - 00:39:32:
Um. And there's so much more that I can learn.
Scott - 00:39:36:
Are you still playing guitar?
Craig - 00:39:39:
Yeah, I've got it. My guitar.
Scott - 00:39:41:
What do you got?
Craig - 00:39:42:
For me.
Scott - 00:39:42:
You want to go grab it and put it on camera? What is it?
Craig - 00:39:45:
This is a... This is just a Fender Stratocaster.
Scott - 00:39:49:
I got a Strat. I love that. That's a beautiful Strat. That's a beautiful Strat. Yeah. Awesome. So while we're still on camera, maybe the listeners who want to geek out on music might care about this. Have you found Rick Beato, I think it is, on YouTube?
Craig - 00:40:05:
No.
Scott - 00:40:05:
B-E-A-T-O. He's a music producer. Can play anything and he is breaking down the music theory of rock basically.
Craig - 00:40:14:
Oh.
Scott - 00:40:15:
Yeah. Look him up. You will love it. Oh my gosh. You'll love it. That's great. So let's, let's get it. I know we've got a hard stop here. So let's wrap it up. I want to come back to two things before we go. And then one last question that I think will be totally spot on based on what we were just talking about with the music. At home with your, you and Tomoko. Tomoko with the four sons from 4 to 14. What's your view on the role of leadership and raising happy and successful human beings?
Craig - 00:40:51:
Mm. It's sort of an indirect response.
Scott - 00:40:54:
Yeah.
Craig - 00:40:55:
At the Infantry Officer Basic School. In Fort Benning, Georgia, is a statue of an infantryman with his arm back like this. And it just says, follow me. Right. And so fundamentally, if you get... One thing right. It's modeling. The behavior you want from the people following you. And That is a really difficult challenge. As a parent, and to do so consistently. Because your children see who you really are, flaws and all, and certainly once they get to 12 and 14, they let you know all of those flaws.
Scott - 00:41:42:
Mm-hmm.
Craig - 00:41:44:
But to serve consistently, try to demonstrate the character traits, I would like them to do embody, that keeps me motivated and young.
Scott - 00:42:01:
You mentioned the one-on-one time. Is that something you think about one-on-one with them?
Craig - 00:42:07:
Yeah, I mean, I try to let them guide what we do with our one-on-one. And you know, a chance for... And sometimes there's no words exchanged. It's just doing an activity together, playing guitar. Playing guitar with my 14 year old or, um, you know, going for a hike with one of the other kids. It's, it's, Just a chance to be in that one-on-one relationship. With each other.
Scott - 00:42:36:
It's pretty fascinating how different in your case, four kids, in our case, two kids, who came from the same set of parents, how different they can be from each other, isn't it?
Craig - 00:42:45:
Yeah, thank God.
Scott - 00:42:48:
Well, not so much different from the parents, but different from each other. Haven't you found that?
Craig - 00:42:52:
Oh, absolutely.
Scott - 00:42:52:
That your four boys are each unique in their personalities. I love the idea that you're following their interests, right? Because I'm sure they all have very different interests.
Craig - 00:43:02:
Parenting makes you a better leader in a professional setting.
Scott - 00:43:05:
What have you found about that?
Craig - 00:43:07:
The close observation, listening, appreciating the... What motivates one child is very different than what motivates another child. Yeah, that challenge to be, you know, be the leader you want them to see.
Scott - 00:43:29:
Yeah, right. So my last question before we wrap is a fun question I like to ask everybody that comes on Best Ever. What's in your ears these days? What or who are you listening to?
Craig - 00:43:44:
I've been listening to the Bach Goldberg Variations.
Scott - 00:43:49:
Are you working on that?
Craig - 00:43:51:
That's going to be my next song is the aria.
Scott - 00:43:54:
Get out of here. That's awesome.
Craig - 00:43:57:
And then I'm listening to the Cicero Trilogy by Robert Harris. Going down this rabbit hole of Roman history. And then my favorite podcast right now is this podcast called Song Exploder.
Scott - 00:44:15:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good.
Craig - 00:44:17:
Super.
Scott - 00:44:18:
Yeah. Great episode on Stevie Wonder on Song Exploder.
Craig - 00:44:23:
Oh. I'll check it out.
Scott - 00:44:24:
That was one of my great concerts from last year was Stevie Wonder.
Craig - 00:44:27:
Wow.
Scott - 00:44:27:
It was amazing. It was amazing, yeah. Just say a word about the Cicero Trilogy and what you're taking away from that.
Craig - 00:44:35:
There's real value in reading the classics and studying the, you know, the path that, you know, another democracy.
Scott - 00:44:48:
Tuck.
Craig - 00:44:49:
And that You can't take democracy for granted.
Scott - 00:44:58:
Right. I think that's a great place to stop. With that thought that we can't take democracy for granted. And you're somebody who has fought for it. As I say, thank you for that. Thank you for your service, Craig. Thank you so much for being here and sharing so much wisdom with us on Best Ever. It's been a lot of fun to reconnect with you and thanks for making the time.
Craig - 00:45:25:
Likewise, Scott. Really enjoyed it.
Scott - 00:45:26:
Thanks, Craig. So let's do some coachable moments. The conversation with Craig had so much in it that you could talk about from a put it to work kind of standpoint that it's hard to choose, you know, two or three points to make. But let me give it a shot. One thing that really stood out for me with Craig that, you know, is such a unique aspect of his life story is the whole. Uh, firefight story behind his book, The Unforgiving Minute. When we were talking about that experience and how difficult it was, he said, you know, in combat, the hits just keep on coming. And you've got to learn to control what you can control. And most of it you can't control. And I think keeping that perspective, you know, most of us are never going to be in combat like Craig was. In life, the hits just keep on coming. And there's a lot of extrinsic stuff out there, most of which we can't influence, that can trigger our intrinsic dialogue or monologue more accurately. And I refer to that little monologue as the itty-bitty shitty committee. You know, it's that you're triggered by these external factors. And there's wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, like the teacher on Charlie Brown. And. You've got to recognize when that happens and ask yourself, what's the one best thing that I can do right now? You know, how do I need to show up? And what do I need to do that's going to move the ball forward? What can I control? So I thought that was a really important point. Uh, another really important point he made that he learned in ranger training and that after we were done with the formal interview, I had a chance to chat with Craig a little bit as we were wrapping up. He was talking about traveling internationally as Chief of Staff to his CEO, Jim Anderson. And his CEO is marveling at Craig's ability to just sleep on command, as the CEO describes it. And he said, you know, that's the gift from the Army that's kept on giving. And if you remember, Craig talked about he wants to get at least seven to eight hours of sleep a night. Because he can't perform well unless he does. So this is one that I'm really passionate about myself, actually. In my book, Overworked and Overwhelmed, I talk a lot about the importance of sleep, and I've read a lot of the research. And the research shows that 95% of human beings need at least seven hours of sleep. That's the minimum. To be not just fully productive the next day, but to live to their full life expectancy. Because if you don't get enough sleep, seven hours minimum for 95% of us, it leads to chronic illness and chronic disease, which shortens your lifespan and your health span. So if you think you can get by with less than seven hours of sleep a night and be just fine, well, you must be in the 5% of the population that has a rare genetic mutation that enables you to get by with less. And let me tell you, the math suggests that you're not in the 5%. So be on the safe side, get the seven hours of sleep a night. Finally, one thing that really kind of pulled through the conversation for me with Craig that I think is worth thinking about and worth... Thinking about how can you act on this. From the, self-coaching standpoint is the power of community. Uh, you might remember part of the conversation where we talked about the drive that Craig has, and I think... Pretty much any objective observer would suggest that Craig, knowing Craig's history and everything he's accomplished in his life thus far. A lot of drive with Craig, right? And is it nature, is it nurture? It's really both, you know, and he made the point. That nobody ever accomplishes great things on their own. You know, the podcaster Scott Galloway likes to talk about Agency is in the power of others. And that power of community goes both ways, right? He talked about it in his church as well, the value of the community. For him and not just receiving… probably the love and companionship from the folks that he goes to church with, but also giving his own love and companionship. And I think that's a two-way street. You know, it's a give and take. Scenario with community. So we can all benefit from it, but a big part of the benefit is not just taking what we can get from community, but also thinking about how can we give and contribute to the community. And I think Craig has really thought about that a lot and is exemplary in the way he thinks about that. So I just put that out there for you from a coaching standpoint as food for thought. What communities are you in? And not just what are you taking from those communities, but what can you give and contribute back to those communities? Because that'll do as much for you as the taking will. It's the health and efficacy factors of giving. There's a lot of research on this. Are enormous in terms of your overall health and well-being. Your effectiveness as a person and a leader, it's all upside. So just look for opportunities to give back to the communities that you're in, as well as... Being somebody who benefits just from being in those communities. So coachable moments, control what you can control, get enough sleep, seven hours minimum, and look for the power of community. And that is it. For this episode of Best Ever, thanks so much for being a part of our community and listening to the show. If you enjoyed this show, I really hope that you will follow us on your podcast platform of choice and that you will give us whatever rating opportunities there are. If it's coming from the sincerity of your heart, give us a great rating. And if you want to engage with us, leave a comment, then we'll write back and start the dialogue there in that way as well. So thanks for listening to Best Ever. And until next time, keep taking those small steps of self-management that, when consistently applied, lead to big and positive outcomes.