Aligning Rewards Programs with Team Goals and KPIs

In this episode of the Travel Buddy podcast, Ian Andersen and Rachel Satow take a close look at how to align rewards and recognition programs with team goals and KPIs for a more motivated, high-performing workforce. Together, they unpack common pitfalls of traditional rewards, share practical strategies for building meaningful incentives, and explore the surprising role travel can play in driving engagement and innovation. Tune in for expert insights, memorable anecdotes, and actionable tips to help you design rewards that truly move the needle for your team in 2026 and beyond.

Chapters
(00:01) Challenges With Traditional Rewards Programs
(04:22) Aligning Incentives With Team Goals and KPIs
(12:20) Building Culture and Recognition Through Alignment
(17:20) Individual Versus Team-Based Recognition
(23:05) Integrating Travel Into Rewards Programs
(28:55) Practical Strategies for KPI-Aligned Rewards

Continue Your Journey
https://www.switchfly.com/blog/adventure-at-work-travel-rewards-innovation

Connect with Switchfly
Website: https://www.switchfly.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/switchfly/
X: https://twitter.com/switchfly
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SwitchflyOfficial

Creators and Guests

Host

Ian Andersen

Demand Gen & Marketing Operations Manager

Host

Rachel Satow

Senior Marketing Strategist

What is Travel Buddy with Switchfly?

See more at Switchfly.com

Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.

In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.

Let's get to it.

Brandon Giella: Hello and welcome
back to another episode of The Travel

Buddy podcast presented by Switch Fly.

I have with me as always, the beautiful.

The inimitable, Ian Anderson.

Ian, welcome.

We have also the lovely Rachel au.

As always, thank you for joining.

Today we are gonna be talking
about aligning rewards programs

with team goals and KPIs.

So as we are all entering the
final stretches of 2025, we

are setting our sights on 2026.

'cause we are this close to
Thanksgiving and I can't believe

the year's almost over, but we are.

Heading into 2026, and everybody wants
to know how can I get my rewards and

recognition program, these benefits
programs that I have, the loyalty

programs that I have, how can I get
this to match my business objectives?

I need to drive revenue.

I need to get my team more engaged,
more productivity, more innovation.

2026 is gonna be a banger year.

I'm stoked about it, and my
rewards and recognition program

is gonna be a part of that.

So how do we get these things to align?

So we have a couple of segments here
that are gonna be great for the show.

The first is.

What is the problem with
traditional rewards programs?

So, Rachel, I will start with you.

Tell us what is, there's traditional
programs out there that are great,

but there's major downsides to them
and there's of course, alternative

programs that include travel
that we'll talk about in a bit.

But kick us off and tell us a little
bit of the, the challenges that you

might face with a traditional program.

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

So I mean, it's hard to say
that we ever get outside of like

a traditional program, right?

I mean, I think feel like traditional
programs just expand their offerings

and expand their rewards, and that's
kind of how they become this, this

next gen version of themselves.

but I think the, the greatest
way to say this is that generic

programs will lead to generic.

Outcomes, rewards that have no tie to
what actually drives business results

means that you are re reward, potentially
rewarding behavior that is undesirable

or is not something that is actually
going to move the needle for you.

So one of the things that we typically
see, and, and this is just, you know.

it's, it's almost unavoidable in
some cases, but recognition is

often retroactive and or ceremonial,
so like tenure or anniversaries.

That's typically when you start to,
to see those, those recognition calls.

But it doesn't mean it.

What that means is that they're not
being proactive or strategic in how

they can leverage these rewards programs
and, really use it as a strategic

lever to increase productivity and
reach business strategy and goals.

so they often are, these programs are
often rewarding the, the visibility

or the, the things that are most
tangible rather than, true impact.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, I like
the way you framed that.

I was just reading a thing this
morning, about Charlie Munger.

He's the famed, right hand man of, of
Warren Buffet at, at, Berkshire Hathaway.

And he would, the quote that I saw
was Never think about anything else.

When you can think about incentives
and so to motivate people to build

this kind of culture that you want,
the innovation, the productivity that

you're really looking for, you have
to motivate them through incentives.

You have to be thinking about it at the
front end before they start working,

because then they are driven to work
and perform, you know, based on those

incentives that you, you structure.

But if you

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: if you only reward
for, you know, Hey, you've been

here five years or 10 years, great.

We're excited.

Or it's the end of the year.

Here's a reward.

You've already missed all
the incentive and motivation

that you could have upfront.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, that's
a, that's a great call out.

I mean, teams are going to engage.

In what you incentivize,
not what you're hoping for.

so if your rewards aren't tied to
KPIs, teams are gonna spend their

energy on guessing on what matters
instead of on focusing what metrics

the business actually cares about.

Brandon Giella: right.

That's right.

Thank you, Charlie Munger, legend.

Rest in peace.

so, okay, so moving on.

So how do you align these
things going forward?

So, how do you set up incentive structures
or this, these kind of rewards and

recognition, these kind of motivating
behaviors to build that culture, thinking

about, you know, how can you get people
to go forward with this direction?

So, Ian, I'm curious.

I'll, I'll turn it over to you.

This segment here, why aligning
with team goals and KPIs matters.

So how does this, how do you get
that kind of result going forward?

What are the benefits of doing so?

Ian Andersen: Well, I mean, I think the
benefits are relatively obvious, right?

Like if you are, in theory, your team's
KPIs should sort of nest under the,

the overall business's KPIs, right?

What they're, endeavoring to, to hit
for the quarter, the year, whatever.

Should enhance the business overall.

so by aligning rewards with those
KPIs, you are directly incentivizing

your business's performance.

Right?

I, it seems like blatantly obvious, but.

We've seen so many times where not
only KPIs are not necessarily aligned,

but, incentive structures don't
advance the overall business goals.

and I think that's what you're
getting down to, right, is.

most of us are not working
for a charity, right?

We are.

Our company is here to maximize profits.

we as employees are here,
to, to help meet that end.

But by doing so, we're
here for pay, right?

and benefits.

And, you know, none of us are, are
working for, for free, so to speak.

so if we can align.

Those targets and, and the
reward structures, to, to

basically benefit all of us.

That's where incentive really comes in.

Not to get like to philosophical, but I
mean, that's what capitalism is, right?

Is, is like, matching incentive
with, with supply and demand

of the marketplace, right?

So we have, the supply,
which is our labor.

The, the company has a demand.

how do we incentivize all around
to, to get the best needs?

And, and it is aligning
those business goals.

like Rachel mentioned.

so often the rewards programs
are, are very static, right?

You know, Whether it's tenure or
birthdays or even something, relatively

generic, like an employee of the
month, are rather not subjective.

The, the employee of the month
thing can be kind of subjective, but

like the, so you've been here for
one revolution of the sun, right?

Like, okay, great.

Like how does that.

Help your business goals.

so, so realigning and you know, and
I'm not saying it's not important to

highlight some of those, but maybe
don't put your incentive structure

specifically towards, you know, if you've
been here three years, that's when so

and so benefit kicks in or, or whatever.

Why not?

Alter that to meet a business
outcome to align with the KPI and

then that employee has an incentive
to, to hit that even earlier.

Right?

And, it's more, advantageous for everybody
than an arbitrary number that, you

know, so many days you've been here.

So.

Brandon Giella: Well stay tuned
for the next episode, theory

and Practice of Capitalism.

Subtitle, debating Milton Friedman.

I can't wait.

I'm I'm in.

I'm ready.

Ian Andersen: Yeah.

Rachel Satow: one's just
gonna be Anne's monologue.

Ian Andersen: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: No, this is great.

I love it.

Rachel Satow: one of the things that I
wanna add there, I mean, Anne, you kind

of touched on this a little bit, but by
aligning your rewards and recognition

programs and the, the measurability of
of KPIs, it honestly helps managers.

Reduce the chance of bias,
because you're relying on those

measurable standards, right?

So I mean, when it becomes very
transparent that these are the key

things that we're trying to achieve
as a business, and each individual

or each team has the responsibility
to meet these things in order to

achieve reward, I mean that it becomes
so transparent and so clear of this

is the action I have to take and.

By aligning your, your rewards with
KPIs, it truly reduces some of that

emotional ambiguity at work that
many employees probably feel, when.

It's not aligned with KPIs and goals.

I know this is something that is, is
pretty commonplace, but most employees

feel uncertain about whether or not
they're meeting expectations, whether that

be, you know, the self, the self-doubt.

But by aligning your KPIs with your
rewards, you have a very clear.

Way to say I am meeting expectations for
both yourself and for a manager to be able

to say, you are meeting expectations, and
this is the reward structure that comes

from you meeting those expectations.

Brandon Giella: That's
right, that's right.

That clarity can drive such performance.

And I, I want to emphasize Ian, like
what you're talking about, obviously

this is a for-profit business or as
a, as the economist Thomas Soul say,

there is no for-profit business.

It is a business of which the
owners derive residual income,

which is different, which is
a great way of putting it.

but What is great is Capitalism
Capital's business can do so many things.

It is incredible.

And if we are not driving profit,
you can't enjoy working for a place

that has gone out of business.

So we must have performance and
goals, and we must drive that.

But a, a big component of that, which
every rewards and recognition leader knows

there are other components that are part
of your team that are very important,

dignity in, in their work, good relations
among their team, motivation and joy

and purpose in this kind of like, you
know, get after it kind of mentality.

that's all really important.

And a big component of that is how do
you reward the people for doing great

work so that they can take pride in
their work, because that satisfaction

alone is extremely important.

I was just listening
to a podcast yesterday.

It's a high performance podcast,
which I had never heard of before,

but I found it and it's amazing.

And, the, the guy was, his name was
Zach Brown, and he basically took

over the McLaren F1 team and did a big
turnaround and they went from like sixth

place to winning two championships.

by basically rallying people around a
clear, you know, mission and then creating

great culture, great communications,
and great incentives to motivate

people and get their energy going.

And it wasn't anything other than
that, you know, they, there maybe some.

there were some things that he talked
about with like swapping engines and

stuff like that, but, but he talked
about how creating that team was,

was a huge part of their success.

And so doing that through these incentive
structures is really, really key.

So it's both that, that
profit and that purpose that

Ian Andersen: yeah, that, that really
drives to something, a little deeper in.

it is creating a culture of, that
expectation of excellence from sort of the

managerial side, but also the expectation
of like, acknowledgement and appreciation

from the employee side, right?

Culture is one of those, you know, those
words that kind of get kicked around a lot

and it can be really difficult to define,
and it can be difficult to necessarily

describe in a particular environment,
but we've all been, You know, in, in

multiple jobs where, where you see that
play out in real life, and especially

if it's a, a sort of negative or, or,
low expectation culture, it's, it's.

Immediately apparent and,
employees have a tendency to,

to kind of fall right into it.

Right?

Like, and that's why I think so
much of, of this, of aligning,

aligning incentives with KPIs.

there's, you brought up a quote
and I, I had to look it up 'cause I

didn't remember the exact wording, but
there's something, I don't remember.

Bill Walsh, the old San Francisco 49
er coach that, led the, the team back

in the, like the eighties and nineties
when they were kicking everybody's butt.

There's nothing more effective
than sincere, accurate praise,

and nothing is more lame than a
cookie cutter compliment, right?

Like people by and large want to
do well at their jobs, and not

only that, they want recognition
for doing well at their jobs and.

Like the incentives to
do well at their job.

and if, if you can make that sincere
and accurate, if you can, you know,

really highlight that, it, it just
benefits everybody all around.

And there's no easier way to do that than
aligning them with specific goals and KPIs

because then it's not arbitrary, right?

Like then it's automatically.

You can, you can objectify it in
a way that makes it, something

the employee strives for.

but also easy to recognize and to
to see, you know, if, if somebody,

you know, if Rachel's just doing a
great job for the last month or two

and, you know, helping out all over
the place and, you know, kind of.

Feels like she's doing well.

I could say, you know, she's
sure she's an employee of the

month for helping everybody out.

But if I don't have specifics behind
that, if they don't lead to a specific

outcome, it's just kind of subjective.

And I think that's what makes this
not only, not only important, but but

actually relatively easy, to realign and,
and one of probably the easier ways to

change or enhance a company's culture,
to get a more motivated workforce.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, absolutely.

And, and to just kind of dovetail
off to, off of this, you know, KPIs

and aligning them with your rewards
and recognition and feedback is.

To, to go into one of the things
that Simon Sinek regard, speaks to

regarding providing feedback and,
and being effective and, you know,

having an easier go at actually
being able to provide feedback.

Is that it, you know, it's supposed
to be timely, it's supposed to

be clear, and it's supposed to
be very specific and actionable.

So when you tie in KPIs and you know
the greater business objectives into

how you reward and provide feedback.

It almost gives you one
of those three things.

It gives you the very specific opportunity
because you can say this thing, you did X,

Y, Z tied directly into this other thing.

That is something we are counting as,
you know, a, a level that you need to

be at in order to get this feedback and
it, it 100% like almost does that, that

aspect of providing good feedback for you.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

The one exception to that rule is
if you just tell somebody you look

nice today, very general, very
cookie cutter, but it's so nice

Rachel Satow: My favorite is
you're looking sharp today.

Brandon Giella: looking sharp.

I, I love that word actually.

I've been using Sharp so much lately.

So, okay.

So this, this is kind
of an interesting point.

Do you see any difference between
individual and team-based feedback or

individual and team-based recognition or
the way that you would align the KPIs?

Because you know, you guys are part
of a team, but you have individual

responsibilities, individual goals
and roles that you have to hit.

Do you see any kind of difference of
like, how do you, you know, provide

that kind of commentary or something
like that based, you know, for a

whole team or for an individual?

How, how does that work for you guys?

Rachel Satow: so from my
perspective, individual.

Tools and the way you align those with
KPIs is your KPIs are going to be more

focused on an individual's ownership
and accountability of a certain action.

Right?

So I know, you know, just speaking
candidly, internally, like I know

I'm in charge of helping our website
get to a certain conversion rate.

I know the metric that I need to hit in
order to do that, and I have the ownership

and accountability of reaching that
goal now from a team-based perspective.

You are going to want to ensure
that you're aligned with things that

are a little bit more related to
shared problem, problem solving or

collaboration, cross departmental.

so it becomes more of a how do we
take the individual ownership and

accountability items and apply them to.

Everybody's individual ownership
and accountability items.

So where does that collaboration and,
and shared problem solving overlap?

and that's really how you can, can align
some of these, these KPIs with, you know,

different levels of, of the organization.

Ian Andersen: So my, my 14-year-old,
is in ninth grade and he just, we

were just talking about the other day.

He had a big group project and he was
pissed 'cause him and one other kid in

the group essentially did all of the
work, you know, and, the other three, just

kind of sat back and collected the good
grade and, you know, so, so we were kind

of laughing and talking about that and,
and it, it made me think about, you know,

setting clear individual goals really is
the only, the only way to be successful

at even creating larger team goals, right?

By its nature, team goals are
generally more, abstract, like

Rachel said about, you know,
collaboration and working together.

And that then there very well could be a,
a specific, that you're driving towards.

But, just in total it's a, it's
gonna be a little more abstract

than in individual's goals.

So it's incumbent upon managers too.

To break down those team
goals to the individual level.

Right.

So I don't, I don't really
see a difference between

team and individual goals.

they're there, one has
to complete the other.

and if every individual isn't
hitting their goals, the team

doesn't hit its overall one.

Right.

Brandon Giella: that's right.

Ian Andersen: That's what,
what it boils down to.

So, so it's great to be, part of the team.

It's great to get recognized as a team,
but in the end, it really needs to be

broken down to the individual level.

So not only are the expectations
of their performance clear, their

understanding of how they fit into
things is clear, which is also important.

you know, there's, You guys,
I've, I've told you before, you

know, you used to be in the Army.

something that we talk a lot about
in, in the Army is when, at the

start of a mission, you get your
orders, there's a line that's called

commander's intent in those orders.

And

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Ian Andersen: if you threw everything
else away and kept that one line,

that would be enough because.

What you're doing is telling
your people, this is the problem

I'm trying to solve, right?

this is my intent.

Now here everything else is, here's
how I think it should be solved.

And those are what the,
the team goals are.

But, you know, if you have a, a different
way of achieving those, if you have a

better way that I didn't think of or
whatever, down to the individual level,

As long as, as I'm giving you my intent
and you're meeting that, you know, we can

be kind of flexible on, on how to, how
to create those individualistic goals.

and I think that unless you do that,
unless you break it down to the

individual level, there's really no
point in having an overall team goal.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

I like how you explain that.

the commander's intent is like,
Hey, this is what we must achieve

as an organization, but that has
to filter down into everybody's.

Individual daily lives.

And so I, I was just writing down,
I, you know, I've got clear goals

as an organization, but how does
that map exactly to each person

and what they're doing day to day?

That's something that I
could be a lot clearer about.

it makes me think of that commercial
with Kristen Bell, where she's like,

take care of the pennies and the
dollars, take care of themselves.

You know, that kind of idea.

so thinking about like
budgeting and stuff like that.

So, that's helpful.

I, I like that distinction.

I want to tie this back to travel.

I mean, as we are travel buddies and
talking about, you know, travel loyalty

and stuff like that on the show,
how do you guys connect rewards and

recognition programs and, and aligning
them to, you know, key goals in the

organization, individual goals, how
does that all fit together for y'all?

Ian Andersen: lemme jump on this
one real quick, that, Several years

ago, we historically switch fly, had
been primarily in customer loyalty

space, mainly airlines, but, but
other, you know, financial industry

and, and some other areas as well.

But mainly on the customer side.

about four-ish years ago now, started
doing research into the employee

rewards side and figuring that.

In reality, it's, it's
very similar, right?

That, that you could think of
your cust or your employees as

your kind of customers, right?

And, their buying, quote unquote
buying, you know, their salary

with their time and energy, and.

The, the salary and benefits are, are
obviously what, what they're purchasing.

and in order to motivate, the, those,
you know, those interactions that,

that, you really need to be able
to provide the right incentives.

And what we saw when we were looking
into employee rewards is it essentially

all comes down to gift cards.

That's basically it.

Those are like.

Other than a pat on a back and a
plaque for working here 25 years,

there's, there's really nothing
other than, you know, cash bonus

or, more than likely a gift card.

and gift cards are great and
in very specific instances.

You know, it's one thing if like, we're
standing around doing a standup and.

We play a little game and
who gets the question first?

Wins a $5 Starbucks gift card or something
like it has its place, but when we're

talking about like truly incentivizing,
employee engagement and hard work and

meeting business goals and KPIs, it needs
something more than, than gift cards.

And we thought.

well, we have a, a travel platform
that you can purchase, travel

with using loyalty points.

Why not?

With employee rewards, right.

And, and really kind of a similar concept.

So, that's how we, we got into it.

We ended up signing very quickly
the largest employee recognition,

provider There is, And have been sort
of expanding in the space ever since.

Right.

It it's really worked out well.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Rachel, you've, been seeing some research
on, adventure at Work, which is a, a new

blog that just released on switch fly.com.

That kind of makes some of these
points and translates it as well.

Can you talk a little bit about how you're
seeing that connection to innovation?

Rachel Satow: yeah, for sure.

I mean, we, we kinda mentioned this
at the beginning of the podcast,

but rewards are becoming a part
of performance architecture,

not just culture architecture.

and.

You know, when we think about the idea of
innovation, you can always add layers of

processes and tighter roadmaps and, you
know, aim to have more efficient meetings.

But it doesn't necessarily begin.

Innovation doesn't
begin with those things.

It begins with curiosity.

And the thing about travel, and one
of the major points to why rewards and

recognition platforms are exploring
diversification in their offerings

with travel is because travel
brings the same energy that fuels.

Breakthrough ideas and problem
solving because when you're put in a

sit in a situation, we talked about
this before too, when you're put in

a, a situation while traveling that
you know isn't necessarily the most

ideal, you have to get creative to
solve those problems while you're

traveling from a personal perspective.

So travel and an exploration of new areas.

Really, it, it broadens perspectives,
but it also stimulates the same parts

of our brain that, you know, require,
you know, and encourage problem solving

and, and creating, of creating new ideas.

So, I mean, that's.

That's one of the things that the, the
Blog Adventure at Work kind of dives into.

there's some other research that
it touches on regarding, some

neuroscience research from Stanford.

highly encourage y'all to, to read it.

We'll include it in the show notes, but
that is truly like, why travel as an

incentive, especially when tied to KPI
aligned rewards, it becomes so successful.

Brandon Giella: I like that one
could argue that necessity is

the mother of innovation, say.

It's, you're putting these kind of
circumstances backed into a corner, you

will be more innovative and resourceful.

And so travel can, can kind of
create that, especially you see

in new perspectives and new ways
things are done around the world.

It's really great.

Awesome.

Any final thoughts or anything else
that, listeners should know, especially,

you know, folks either thinking about
designing new programs or revamping

their programs or thinking about
how to get rewards and recognition

to play nice together toward KPIs?

Thinking in 2026.

Ian Andersen: Well, I think just the
last maybe point, to put a bow on

it would be that, Historically, you
have your, you know, operations, a

managerial team worrying about KPIs
and, and aligning business objectives.

and you have your, your HR team
discussing benefits packages, right?

And, you know, next year's raises, next
year's performance bonuses, whatever.

and they're often doing
those separately in a bubble.

and as a, a executive team, getting
those together and aligning the KPIs

with the, the benefits packages, the, the
performance rewards, things like that,

is, is just a really easy way to, to start
that next step of, of, you know, creating

a robust employee rewards program.

and not only, not only that.

Right.

It, it saves time, you know, it's easier.

It's, it's, it's quicker for
the management to, to tie those

things together in their head.

and it's easier to communicate
that to, the employees as well.

and I am a big proponent of individual.

individual recognition
and, and reward, right?

Like, how many times have you been on a
team where it's, or at a company where

your bonus is tied to overall company
performance, you know, which I get.

Sure, it's great, easy to, to kind
of, figure out for the management

side, but, you know, you could be the
best employee of all time and, you

know, kill every goal you ever had.

but if the rest of the company is not
meeting, those, those profitability

metrics, you know, your, your SOL
and, you know, enough time goes

by, somebody like that is gonna be
looking, looking somewhere else.

So they, those incentives really need
to be tied directly to the employee.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, that's really important.

It's, I think it's 'cause it's easy
to see, like, okay, what was net net

income in this quarter and how do we
do, you know, and then just give a,

you know, distribution based on that.

But most people at an organization,
I'd say, especially at, you know,

larger and larger organization, they
wanna do a good job in their work.

They wanna be happy when they show up to

Ian Andersen: and most people's,
and most people's jobs have nothing

to do specifically with revenue.

Right.

most people.

Or working in engineering, in human, human
resources and accounting in whatever,

they're not directly tied to revenue.

So, it's a little unfair in some
circumstances to put that on them.

Brandon Giella: And they're,
they're not in charge of p and ls.

They can't make any kind of cost
cutting decisions anyway, so yeah.

Ian Andersen: Mm-hmm.

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

I think that ties directly into one
of the takeaways that I would, would

leave the listeners with is make
sure that you're tailoring the KPIs

and, the rewards to the team type.

So to Ian, to your point, not
everyone is a revenue team.

Not everyone's in sales
or marketing or rev ops.

There are individuals who work
in product, who work in hr, who.

Their KPIs should look different.

but one of the key things to kind of like
loop them all together is make sure that

your KPIs are outcome based, the desired,
outcome based, not activity based.

It shouldn't be based on I sent.

X amount of emails.

That means I hit my threshold.

It should be I improved X, Y, Z know,
number of customer issues resolved

versus hours spent in the queue.

so definitely ensure that the KPIs
you're utilizing one, are tailored

specific, but also take into account,
you know, the outcome you're looking for.

and you know, in a lot of cases.

You That sometimes means you shouldn't
reward just what can be measured.

sometimes you just have to reward what
matters most, whether that be, you know,

mentorship, collaboration, innovation.

Not all of these high value behaviors
are going to show up in dashboards.

Ian Andersen: That's, that's a really
good point, especially in that sort

of mid-tier management level of
'cause that manager is being graded.

On their team's performance.

Right.

And, may not always have a specific metric
to tie to themselves, but if their team

has done X, Y, z, if they've managed
to create a, you know, an improvement

over last year or whatever, like, yeah,
it can be a little more arbitrary.

but it still should be specific right.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

All great points.

It's it's kind of like if you tie.

bonus to how many accounts did
you open up working at a bank?

Well, you might just open up a lot more
accounts that don't really exist, because

that's how I'm incentivized, you know,
so there's a great book about that.

It's called the, the Tyranny of Metrics,
by Jerry Miller, I think is his name.

anyways, it's a great, great
book talking about you.

You set that incentive, you're
gonna get that outcome, but that

may not be what you actually really

Ian Andersen: The LA last time we
talked about gamification and remember

whether it's your employees or
customers, they're gonna be gamifying

things as well from their side.

So, yeah.

Brandon Giella: We are
all tiny economists.

yes.

well guys, this is really great.

Ian Andersen: be the title
of this episode, right?

Brandon Giella: It's a precursor
to our next episode on the theory

and practice of capitalism,
which I'm really excited about.

Ian Andersen: Perfect.

We are all tiny economists.

Brandon Giella: well guys, I
always enjoy talking to you

and I love your perspectives.

especially rounding into the new year,
like I said, of of, how people are, are

gonna be thinking about what does 2026
look like and how can I get my team more

involved on these goals that I have?

Travel is a major component of that,
reward and recognition, side of the house.

So, as always, please
go to switch fly.com.

You'll see tons more resources there.

You can also find us on YouTube
and Spotify and all the other

channels out there, wherever
you like to get your podcasts.

And, we will see you
guys in just a few weeks.

Thanks so

Ian Andersen: Thanks

Rachel Satow: Thanks Brandon.

Ian Andersen: bye.