Breakdown_Ep22_Edit
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Five, four, three, two, one.
Matt: Hey, Gravity Formers. It's Monday, May 27th. Time to explore some new products in the Gravity Forms ecosystem, plus a new add on for your newsletter sending pleasure. It's Breakdown, a Gravity Forms podcast.
If you love exploring the far reaches of Gravity Forms universe, you're in for a real treat today. I've got two interviews lined up. One with a team you might have heard about before and another new entrant into the Gravity Forms add on space. But first, let's jump through some updates to Gravity Forms along with a new [00:01:00] add on that we're releasing.
Since the last time we chatted, there's been a handful of minor updates to Gravity Forms Core, making some strides in cleaning up existing bugs along with a hop fix or two. But the real fun is if you use MailerLite as your platform of choice for email and automation campaigns, we released a beta version of our new add on.
Be sure to grab it from your dashboard and join our Facebook group, gravityforms. com slash beta, to chat about anything else you'd like to see. And a quick update on our travel plans, WordCamp Europe is right around the corner, June 13th through the 15th. If you're headed that way, be sure to stop by the Gravity Forms booth.
Sadly, I won't be there, but the rest of the team will be. We'll be demoing Gravity Forms, showing off new and upcoming features, and of course, we'll have a fresh batch of new t shirts for you to grab. Stop by and say hi!
First up for today's interview is from a popular Gravity Forms add on company, JetSloth. They've been enhancing, the pun is [00:02:00] intended here, various choice fields in Gravity Forms for a few years now. Today we'll talk about how they're bringing the definitive add on, called Enhanced Choices, to the Gravity Forms experience.
So here we go with today's interview with the Jet Slot team.
Hey Blige, welcome to Breakdown. Let us know who you are and what you do.
Blaz: We've been certified Gravity Forms developers for a number of years now, and what Jet Slot's goal really is to do is just to make forms beautiful and fe diffusion between design, ui, UX, and gravity forms. So. Our focus is always on functionality and presenting your forms in the best light.
Matt: That's awesome. So when you're not making Gravity Forms, what else are you and the team up to these days?
Blaz: For us at Jeff Sloth, when we're not working with Gravity Forms, we find ourselves [00:03:00] typically working on our own. Coming up with solutions and solving problems for gravity forms. So when we're not working with gravity forms, we find ourselves, um, prototyping new ideas and online tools that we could put together and build, uh, which is love creating and.
Developing new software online
Matt: which obviously shows in your latest add on for gravity forms enhanced choices give you the backstory Where did this come from? I know you have a bunch of add ons that enhance choices in the past But this is definitively the enhanced choices. So where did it come from?
Blaz: So enhanced choices? came about really Seeing a need in the market with gravity forms to add more to radio and check box choices. We've obviously got a lot of learnings from our previously successful image choices. I don't know. We found a lot of over the years requests to do more and we started to see a few patterns where.
What happens if [00:04:00] we give people or customers the ability to add more than just images, text, images, pricing. So really what triggered it was a support request from one or two customers where they didn't realize they were asking for it. But we soon said to ourselves, what if we, you know, enhance just the normal radio or checkbox field?
And what does that look like from a user's end? And what functionality would that bring to the table? And we quickly discovered that taking the learnings from our previous image choice add on and expanding on that and moving it to a new direction made it really powerful to be able to present. Options and choices like you haven't been able to do so before.
And of course we then took it a lot further and made an online editor for a same designer for it and really put the no code concept into that add on. So really excited for what the [00:05:00] possibilities for that. I don't know how customers start to use it. And we have had amazing feedback and. Customers using that add on in a number of ways that we hadn't even thought of yet.
So that's really exciting for us.
Matt: That sounds great. Congrats on the launch of that stuff. And I know it just shipped. We're still letting the dust settle, but you guys are innovative. Is there anything else you're working on to either enhance your existing add ons or launch something new?
Blaz: There's a couple in the play for us at the moment that we're going to look at over the over this year.
I'll focus right now. Is adding functionality and improving enhanced choices to really make that a staple of one of the offerings that Jeff Sloth offers, and we really were looking forward to how we can optimize and push and add functionality to enhance choices and really make that plug in shine.
There are a couple of, um, gem ideas that we have started working on just recently, and it has, I'll give a [00:06:00] little bit away. It's got a little bit to do with, uh, feed integration, but some of those add ons aren't on the scale of what we've just pushed out with enhanced choices. But there's always something really exciting on the corner for us.
And I love the mix of still doing a little bit of client work here and there with our custom built clients and accidentally stumbling upon Some of those or some areas or issues or problems that our clients have and quickly going, Hey, if this customer has this client client has it has this problem, we think there's a solution there that we can create and put it or add it to gravity forms and serve the customer client, but also, you know, look at it.
Making that available to the wider Gravity Forms community. So we're really excited and I love having that insight from our clients. It really sparks us for continuing to build new add ons for in the JetSloth community and ecosystem.
Matt: Speaking of [00:07:00] community, what's your overall thoughts on WordPress, the WordPress community, the future of WordPress?
I'm always interested to gauge how folks like you, who are building well designed products, see yourselves fitting in to the overall ecosystem of not just Gravity Forms, but WordPress as a whole.
Blaz: As a whole, I think that WordPress communities just getting stronger and stronger. I just love that that's a platform where as two creators at Jetsloth, that's our platform to be able to build and inspire and grow, um, and add value back to the community.
And as Jetsloth grows as a business, it's just opening so many doors and opportunities for us to Continue pushing and creating for that platform and the gravity forms community So we're really humbled and excited for what's around the corner for the following for the rest of the year
Matt: Thanks for the time today everyone listening jetsloth.
com And check out their new era of enhanced choices for gravity forms. [00:08:00] Check out jetsloth. com Next up, my old friend from the WordPress community, Richard Best, a lawyer located in the furthest reaches from me, New Zealand, is launching an add on that will help you automate documents for a variety of industries.
Let's check with him to learn more.
Hey Richard, welcome to Breakdown. Good to hear you again. I know we go back a little way, so really interesting to see that now you're building a Gravity Forms product. Tell me, tell me how that happened.
Richard: Hey Matt, thanks very much for having me on. Great to touch base again. I think the last time we spoke was back in 2016, wasn't it?
When I was on the Matt Report talking about all things GPL. It's amazing how time flies, doesn't it? Um, look, if you don't mind me saying, before I get into things, I was stoked when I heard you'd joined Rocket Genius, [00:09:00] both for you and for Rocket Genius, because I was a long time listener of the Matt Report, and I've been using Gravity Form since 2010.
So I thought you were perfect for the role, so look, just congrats. Now to answer your question as to who I am, I suppose you could say I'm an unusual fusion between a lawyer, I've been practicing for about 27 years, and a WordPress geek. I've been using WordPress since 2005. I started out as a litigation lawyer and did that in New Zealand, the UK, Germany and then New Zealand again for about 10 years and then pivoted to more transactional law with a particular focus on technology.
I have a lovely and loving partner, two great kids from my first marriage and my partner has two more great kids and I have a cat and a dog. Um, I also build and operate a number of WordPress websites, including the WP and legal stuff. Blog over at wp and legal stuff.com. And of course, [00:10:00] I am the creator of Gravity merge@gravitymerge.co.
Now, how I got wrapped up in making a Gravity Forms product actually has a long history. When Gravity Forms came on the scene, I was convinced it had the potential to turn WordPress into an app building powerhouse. And I think that certainly proved to be true. In the early days, I wanted to try and use gravity forms for contract automation.
I'd always had an interest in that because many lawyers waste too much time and money recreating the wheel when it comes to drafting contracts. I managed to get in touch with a kind developer at Rocket Genius and he gave me some handfuls of PHP code that I could use to automate the creation of a document in terms of HTML output.
I then used a plugin from the repository to turn that into a downloadable doc file. I even built a commercial service called Ubuild Contracts that had [00:11:00] leveraged gravity forms. Back then though, I was working as an in house lawyer and I got so busy that I didn't have time to progress Ubuild Contracts.
That was all back in 2010. So I've been thinking about it for quite a long time. That's how I got started all the way back then. I've loved Gravity Forms from the day it was released and I've wanted to build a document automation solution with it for a long
Matt: time. So obviously it's been on your mind for a while.
How else did you start to plot and plan to release a plugin like this?
Richard: So yeah, look, in the years that followed my initial attempts, I just couldn't shake my desire to fill what to me was a hole in the WordPress or Gravity Forms ecosystem. That hole. was a plugin that enables people to use Gravity Forms as a document automation machine that produces docx files for download and importantly that supports conditional content in [00:12:00] the docx templates.
You know, so whether the content is included in your built document will depend on the answers that someone gives in the form. The concept for Gravity Merge came from my desire to have a document automation solution within WordPress, all under the roof of one's WordPress install, without having to rely on third party services to which you had to transfer your data.
I wanted everything to be under the WordPress roof as it were. Now there have been a couple of plugins in this space over the years and I think two of them are still available. But they don't support the inclusion of conditional content. They only support direct replacement of a merge tag in a document template with an entry in a form field.
Now look, I mean, that may be okay for a smallish number of use cases, but for any use case of any complexity, it's just not enough. It certainly wasn't enough for the kinds of legal documents I wanted to automate. So [00:13:00] to cut a long story short, I scratched my own itch by having Gravity Merge developed. In the first instance, I was having it developed for me to meet my own business needs.
I've actually had my flagship product, which I call GM Templated DocX, I've had that developed twice. The first iteration worked, but it didn't have everything I wanted, and it didn't follow the Gravity Forms add on framework. So in more recent times, I've had it rebuilt from the ground up by new developers.
And after a lot of testing and tweaking, they've done a great job. So yes, I wanted Gravity Merge for my own needs, but I've always thought other people could benefit from it as well. And I like the idea of commercializing it. So that's all resulted in what you see today on the Gravity Merge website at gravitymerge.
Matt: co. I think for the uninitiated, when they hear legal and Gravity Forms and WordPress, the first thing they think is, well, signatures and PDFs, but [00:14:00] how is this product different and who's the perfect fit for it? Certainly doesn't sound like it might be for me, but if I'm building a website for somebody in the legal space, is, is that a viable option that a freelancer or developer should look at?
Richard: That's a great question because I've scratched my head quite a bit about which niche or niches I should target from a marketing perspective. Certainly, the plugin is very useful for lawyers who, like myself, wish to automate the creation of contracts and other documents, so they are certainly one kind of perfect customer.
And, you know, lawyers might want to build document automations as lead magnets to get potential clients through the door, or they might want to sell automated contracts and other documents as a productized service. Or they might just want to make their law practices more efficient by having document automation tools available to them internally, either in protected areas of a live website or in a [00:15:00] local version of WordPress using something like Local, MAMP, or possibly the new WordPress.
com product called Studio. Which I'm yet to try out, but you know, the gravity moved plugins, and I should say there are currently four of them are certainly not limited to lawyers. There are endless other use cases for the plugins like automating draft letters, automating the generation of reports or policy documents, automating the creation of proposals in response to competitive tender processes, automating or semi automating the creation of lesson plans, automating invoice creation.
You know, the list is, it's really endless. And so for that reason, my perfect customer is actually anyone who has a want or need to automate the creation of any kind of document to save time, become more efficient, and serve people better. Now I've just mentioned before that there are actually four plugins, so it might help to quickly explain the four plugins, just so people understand what [00:16:00] they do.
The flagship plugin is gm templated docx, and in a nutshell, with that plugin, you create a form that you'll use to obtain inputs you need to build your document. You create a Docx template that you'll use for your merged documents and that can contain a range of direct replace merge tags and conditional content merge tags that correspond with the fields in your form.
You then upload your template to Docx. gmtemplateddocx, in other words, to your own website and you then connect the template to the form. You then sort your confirmation out and your document automation tool is complete. So, you know, after that, anyone who can access the form can fill it out and have a document generated for them as a docx file, which they can then download or email to themselves or any other person.
So that's [00:17:00] gmtemplateddocx. It relies on Docx templates that you upload to WordPress and that drive the automated output. But there is another way of document automation I've been interested in that does not involve the use of master Docx templates. That alternative method is essentially HTML to Docx conversion.
So we have another plugin called GM HTML to Docx which does exactly that. And in a nutshell, when it's activated, you can add a shortcode to any page or post, and that shortcode will enable the download of that page or post as a docx file. And many HTML styles in your page or post will be mapped to corresponding styles within the docx file.
Now, if you use that plugin together with GravityWiz's Post Content Merge Tags perk, which is purchased separately, this plugin, GMHTML2DocX, [00:18:00] it enables you, again, to turn GravityForms into a document or advice automation machine with DocX Download. You build the automated HTML output using GravityForms Merge Tags.
And conditional shortcodes for conditional content. And then with GM HTML2Docx, you can download that automated HTML output as a Docx file. So there are two other plugins and I'll try to cover them more briefly. The first is called GM Numbering and it enables you to see legal style hierarchical numbering or in html speak nested ordered lists.
It enables you to see those within the WordPress post and page editors within the Gravity Forms rich text paragraph field and on the front end of your website. So if you're automating the creation of documents with hierarchical numbering using GM HTML to doc X You want this plug in to so that what you [00:19:00] see on screen matches what you will see in your documents now You do not need it If you're not using hierarchical numbering or if you're using GM templated doc X because that takes a different path You only need it if you are using the gm html to docx plugin and want hierarchical numbering or indeed if you have another use for hierarchical numbering You might, for example, um, want your terms of use on your website to be properly hierarchically numbered.
So, you know, there can be situations where you might want to use GM numbering that have nothing to do with document automation. The final plugin is called GM Custom Allfields. And I got the idea for this one from a combination of something you can do with Gravity PDF, and from the modifications that Gravity Wiz has made to the Gravity Forms Allfields merge tag.
So, just briefly for those who don't know. The default all fields merge tag enables you to output all fields in a [00:20:00] form and all answers for those fields that a person enters into the form. I think the default merge tag does that in a pre formatted HTML table. And you know, some people might want to use that tag in a confirmation screen or a confirmation page, for example.
Now it's a really useful merge tag, but there are situations where it just doesn't go far enough. So to give you some context, I've built legal solutions to provide preliminary advice using gravity forms, where there's a lot of conditional logic in the form. And where I've wanted to be able to output all questions that have been asked, while hiding questions that didn't show due to the application of conditional logic.
I've also wanted to hide fields that did show, but for which no answer was given. And I've needed to show HTML fields as well. I've wanted all of this more focused output to be available as a document download as well. So, [00:21:00] I had the GM Custom Or Fields plugin developed to meet these particular needs.
What it does is it modifies the Gravity Or Field merge tag. It allows you to display the form's fields and their inputs while respecting the form's conditional logic. So, you know, if someone filling the form doesn't see fields due to conditional logic, those fields won't show when the merge tag is used.
You can also choose not to see fields, for which no answer has been entered. You can choose to show HTML fields. And you can choose to download the output as a document that can be read by Microsoft Word. And just to be clear, that's a file with a doc suffix. It's not a true docx file.
Matt: So it sounds like there's a lot of stuff there.
Very powerful. You can do a lot with it. How should these freelancers be thinking about presenting this to their own clients? In other words, now you've built the product. Probably gonna have the best [00:22:00] success with a freelancer who kind of hey, I'm out there building solutions for somebody I already know gravity forms.
I know the gravity forms universe like gravity whiz and I can start connecting the dots How do you think they should package this to their own end customers?
Richard: That's an excellent question, Matt And thanks for asking it. I think that with the gravity merge plugins Freelancers and agency owners can now offer their customers the ability to create document automation tools for them as part of their overall services, and all within the context of the customer's WordPress install.
without their customers needing to pay high monthly fees for a third party service to which they would otherwise need to pipe their data for processing. So, for example, if a WordPress website development agency is creating websites for lawyers, Or indeed, for any other industry sector that could benefit from document automation.
Now, with GM Templated [00:23:00] DocX, they can improve their offerings to customers and distinguish themselves in the market. And, you know, they can do that by saying to their customers, and potential customers, that they can include document automation tools as part of the customer's WordPress websites. And as I mentioned earlier, that could be attractive to the customers for lead magnet or client engagement reasons.
Or it could be because the client is interested in productizing certain legal services. Or indeed it could be a completely separate offering that's premised on the use of WordPress for internal business efficiency. In that documents can be generated in a fraction of the time it would otherwise take.
There could be other situations too where customers have a need to make text heavy WordPress posts or pages. Downloadable as docx files. So, you know, let's say your client runs an online journal, for example, and wants people to be able to download docx versions of articles for editing. Now, with gmhtml2docx, that's as easy as adding a [00:24:00] shortcode to the page or post.
And there are some other potential use cases for web development agencies and indeed for those who are entrepreneurially minded. So for example, GM Templated DocX is multi site capable. So that means an agency could use that plugin to create a software as a service based contract automation platform for customers.
And they could do that with or without pre existing automations built in. So these are just a few examples of how web development agencies might leverage Gravity Merge to improve their offerings.
Matt: All right, Richard, before we wrap up today, is there anything else you want to remark on about the Gravity Forms plugin ecosystem or WordPress?
Because again, I've known you through the whole WordPress ecosystem, uh, before my time here at Gravity Forms. What else do you have on your mind about WordPress? Well, thanks for asking.
Richard: In addition to supplying the plugins, I also maintain a blog at gravitymerge. co in which I talk about various issues [00:25:00] relating not only to the plugins but to document automation more generally.
For example, I've recently written a couple of posts that explain how you can use Gravity Forms, GravityWiz's OpenAI plugin and Populate Anything plugin, and OpenAI's API to combine the best of traditional methods of document automation with natural language prompts that go to open AI in real time and return a response to the form in real time before the form is submitted.
Now, to me, this opens up new possibilities for document automation and you know, I make a huge plug here for Gravity Wizard's, awesome range of gravity forms add-ons or plugins because they make this sort of thing possible. And we can then supplement them with our GM templated DocX plugin or HTML2DocX plugin to enable DocX download of the automated output.
In terms of Gravity Forms itself, [00:26:00] well, to me, and for my use cases, it's the best plugin in the WordPress ecosystem. I use it all the time. Like WordPress itself, it has enabled the creation of a whole ecosystem of Gravity Forms add ons, of which I'm now really grateful to be a part. So, thanks to Rocket Genius for all the awesome work they put into Gravity Forms.
Matt: Richard, thanks for hanging out today. It was great catching up. Where can folks say thanks?
Richard: If any of your listeners have questions for me, whether about Gravity Merge or WordPress based legal solutions or anything else, they can feel free to contact me via gravitymerge. co. Thanks very much, Matt, for the opportunity to chat with you today.
I, I really appreciate it and I love all the work you're doing in the Gravity Forms ecosystem.
Matt: That's it for today's episode. If you could do one more thing for me today, share this episode on social media, your favorite Facebook group or discord channel, spread the word about this podcast. It really helps.
If you haven't added Breakdown to your favorite podcast [00:27:00] app, point your browser to gravityforms. com slash breakdown and click the icon of your app to add us and listen to us every two weeks. Okay. We'll see you in the next episode.