[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the build a vibrant culture podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer interviews leadership and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and we are building all sorts of vibrant cultures all over America across the globe and I've got somebody here to help me do that and his name is Grant Harris.
[00:00:45] So let me tell you all about Grant and look at the book he sent me. Look, look, everybody. _Unlocking Diversity, Equity & Inclusion For Success_. So let's talk about Grant. Grant Harris is the founder and president of GTH Consulting, a minority owned, disability owned management consulting firm offering customized organizational development, human capital, and cultural transformation services to public and private clients. Grant is a Certified Diversity Executive, three times published autistic author, consultant, speaker, and community board member. His work with institutions move from compliance to community. I adore that, Grant! He helps people achieve organizational excellence while promoting neurodiversity in the workplace from the boardroom to the mailroom. His experience spans the federal government, K-12 and higher education, global corporations, and small nonprofits reflecting his comprehensive and adaptable approach to various organizational needs. Mr. Harris is a planner, strategist, facilitator, and skilled communicator focusing on the intent and impact of inclusive principles in workplace practices. His ability to guide organizations through small and large Organizational Transitions has made him a sought after consultant for strategic planning and the implementation of short to long range organizational development goals. Grant's passion for diversity and inclusion is more than professional, it's personal. Living with a disability, he recognizes the power of inclusion and the importance of equipping others with the tools to overcome obstacles, embracing a, everybody write this down so you can share on social media, #wenotme philosophy. His journey is a testament to the unifying force of inclusion, enriching lives and creating a sense of belonging for all. Hey, Grant, I'm so glad you're here. You're like one really cool dude and you need to read the beginning of his book where he talks about his own story. It's, it's really pretty cool. Will you share a little bit about your own story?
[00:02:55] Grant Harris: Yeah, yeah. Thank you for allowing me to be here. Great honor. Appreciate the bio. Every time I work on my bio, I send it out or I tweak it, I'm like, none of this stuff means anything, but hopefully it something someone. So,
[00:03:11] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:03:11] Grant Harris: I appreciate it. Yeah. It's been a journey and I talk about my journey in the beginning, in the foreword of the book, I wrote it myself. Unfortunately, I'm not important enough to have someone else write my foreword for me, But,
[00:03:26] Nicole: Well, not yet.
[00:03:29] Grant Harris: Yeah so my, uh, my personal and professional journey, I come from a family of five. Uh, I had both my parents in the household, college educated, middle class African American Black family. Growing up in America, my parents lived through Civil Rights era and generation. And I am the youngest of three. I have two older sisters. And my journey early on in life had nothing to do with diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility as I know it now. However, as I know it now, my entire life fits into those pieces of that puzzle, uh, across different journeys.
[00:04:12] So as a black man in America, I identify as a black man in America, that's difficult enough being a statistic. Uh, fortunately I am not a statistic in many ways. I made it past the age of 24 without incident with law enforcement and without having gone and participated in the jail system in this country, which is great. But in my opinion, it shouldn't have to be that way in the first place. I shouldn't have to be a statistic to mean that I did not participate in those things. So fortunately I had the opportunity to, to gain education. I have several degrees and certificates and certifications that make me sound smarter than what I am. But what I am is a lifelong learner, always learning about myself, who I am, how I operate, how people see me. I'm a reader, writer, thinker. I am a psychology major, so I think about my thinking a lot. Uh, and I hope
[00:05:06] Nicole: The metacognition
[00:05:07] Grant Harris: Now I, yes, yeah. And unbeknownst to me you know, my thinking about my thinking comes and stems from my autistic nature. I was diagnosed as autistic late in life in my late thirties. It's been almost three years now since I was diagnosed. Leading up to that, I spent time in K 12 education as a special educator. I taught autistic kids in a title one, majority minority English as a second language, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere type of environment.
[00:05:39] And leading up to that, I spent my college education at a military school, I was the first and only in my immediate family to go to military school, was a college scholarship athlete, had the fortune to enjoy playing football, uh, in my former years when I used to be fast and agile, and all of these things, uh, teaching, military school environments, leadership roles, both formal and informal in the workplace. And I didn't always have a footing from my work perspective, meaning this is who I am. This is what I do. I never grew up saying this is what I want to be when I grow up I just knew that I wanted to be good at whatever I did, and make a difference.
[00:06:19] Isn't that wonderful you had that inside of you? Isn't that great? That was the thought that was in your head?
[00:06:24] I didn't see it that way at the time
[00:06:26] Nicole: I think it's wonderful.
[00:06:27] Grant Harris: Going through Different jobs and different careers. I've had three or four careers in my day And now I understand that part of that was my chameleon-like ability to change wherever environment I'm in. As, as structured as I can be as an autistic person, I look back over my life and wherever I found myself at that time, I was able to learn about myself, learn about my surroundings and gain some instances of success in those environments, which I didn't see at the time, but I see now.
[00:07:03] So fast forward, I got diagnosed as autistic. My wife was instrumental in that. Probably wouldn't have happened without, uh, my wife. She was the one that said, hey, maybe we should check this out. She's also diagnosed ADHD. I have three kids. My oldest daughter has some executive functioning challenges. So, neurodiversity is, is near and dear to my heart because it's in my home. And it's been in my profession. And now I have the great fortune of talking to folks like you, being able to write about my journey and then being able to help individuals and institutions move from what I call compliance to community and doing that framework for some people to talk about. So I appreciate the opportunity to share a bit of my journey here with you today.
[00:07:52] Nicole: Yeah. Well, I knew we were going to be really good, you know, hitting it off, being good friends, because like, listen to this nerdy thing on page seven. It says, I'm an avid learner. And I always tell everybody I'm a lifelong learner. I think it's the same animal. But then you said, I once memorized every flag of the country in the world, almost 200 in under 30 days. And I thought, oh my gosh, that sounds like something I would do. I love to travel and I love like being able to pick the flags out. So anyways, I just thought that was so fabulously nerdy and awesome that, you know, Grant and I are going to be getting along like peas and carrots.
[00:08:27] Now your book is really great and it's got eight chapters in it. And I would love to see if we could kind of, you know, we're going to have to cherry pick because we can't get through the whole book in one hour, but we could hit the highlights of what's in here. And the first chapter is about the power of DEI and it's a paradigm shift in leadership from compliance to community. That's the third time we've said it. So everybody write that down because that's a really good one to think about from compliance to community. This is not something I have to do, it's something I want to do because I want to build a vibrant culture and have an amazing community of people. So will you talk to us a little bit about understand sectioning DEI, peeling back the layers? That's the piece I'd like you to start with.
[00:09:09] Grant Harris: Yeah, well, we're having this conversation. It's been many weeks and months since we set this up and many things have changed in America
[00:09:18] Nicole: Yeah, they have.
[00:09:20] Grant Harris: And the first thing that I want to say, and I know that I come from a military environment and I'm used to using acronyms. But the acronym DEI, unfortunately, has been weaponized and misused and abused. And I want to make the point that this particular book and the work that I do is not about the acronym DEI. Because that's a thing that's been put in a box and it's been ostracized. It's been put in a corner and said, Oh, we don't do that thing. And most folks, in my opinion, that only use that acronym, don't really know what it means separated because it means multiple different things, uh, in and of itself. And when you put those things together, this is how humanity, this is how organizations get better and excel. So I choose to use the terms diversity, equity, and inclusion and accessibility and say them individually. I do use acronyms, DEIA, depending on the space and place that I'm in, but in this time and where we are today, I think it's powerful to ensure that the language and how we use that language is very important. So it
[00:10:34] Nicole: Words matter. Words absolutely matter to people.
[00:10:38] Grant Harris: It starts with that, the understanding that DEI is not a thing that you put on the shelf and that you take it off the shelf and you dust it a little bit and then you put it back and then you look at it from afar and you say, Hmm, I might go back to that one day, but not right now because I don't, that's not how it is, not what it is, it's not what it's about.
[00:10:58] Diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility. And I say and accessibility because I was doing diversity, equity and inclusion work before I was diagnosed, and I didn't really look at the accessibility portion. I only saw it from one aspect, which was access to systems or access to processes and these types of things in an organization. But I didn't look at it from a disability standpoint because I didn't view myself as a disabled person until I was.
[00:11:26] Nicole: Yeah. Gotta get those shoes on
[00:11:27] Grant Harris: I, I have, yes, I've added on the accessibility and that's where it really starts with that foundational understanding that DEI is not a thing that you accomplish. It's not an end point of a journey. It is something that is ongoing and this is what I talk about in my race framework and my personal mantra about getting 1%, 1 percent better. People, you and I, can get 1 percent better every day. And at the end of the year, you're hopefully 365, depending on if it's a leap year or not, percent better and organizations can do the same.
[00:12:03] And diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility is part of how that gets done. It's not just something that's only done in a department. Oh, I don't, I'm not in the DEI department. That's not how it works. It's within all departments, within all people, because we all bring our individual unique selves to work whether good or bad, better or worse. And that's part of the process. So, that's the community aspect. That's the we not me aspect that I espouse when I have this conversation.
[00:12:35] Nicole: Yeah. That's good. That's good. So, will you break down diversity, equity, and inclusion? Will you define those for me in your words?
[00:12:43] Grant Harris: Yeah, I'd be happy to. I have different definitions or different things, but I always try to do simple terms. So diversity is the makeup of all things that are different, all people that are different. Because none of us are the same. We have eyes, nose, mouth, ears, feet. We're the same from that perspective, but how they look, how they operate, how we think, how we behave is different. That's the makeup of all different ways that the human condition thinks and behaves. When you get equity. Equity, and many practitioners will say that it's about being fair, and I don't necessarily believe that life is fair, and it's not necessarily about fairness. Fairness gets, gets mixed, mixed up with equality.
[00:13:30] You have a pencil and I have a pencil, so thereby it's fair. Well, not necessarily. Just because we have the same writing instrument doesn't mean that I have the same ability to use it. Doesn't mean that I have the same space and place to use it. You may have paper, but I can only write on my hand. That's a completely different ballgame. You may have a sharpened pencil but I have a blunt pencil, different ballgame, different results. So equity is not just about having the same thing. That's equality. I have this, you have this. But it's about how do I access that thing? How do I use it in my work life? What result am I getting from it and in that result, how is it impacting me versus you? What result are you getting and how quickly are you getting that result when it comes to your time, talent, and treasure? So it's not just about having the same thing. It's about how you get access to those things, how those things work for you. And then ultimately the result or the outcome from those things. That's the equity part. And the inclusion part is mixing those different types of people together and those different experiences and those different tools and resources. And allowing people and giving people the opportunity and ensuring that they are aware that they belong wherever they are. And it's not just a feeling. A lot of times people say, Oh, I feel valuable. Well feelings change, but it is a constant that the acts, the actions, the thoughts, the policies, the processes at every turn within the organization are ensuring that people have what they need to feel like that they belong in that environment. So those are diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I would like to add accessibility if you don't mind.
[00:15:20] Nicole: Yeah, no, go for it. I love it. Is that the next book? Are we going to do a book? No, we got, or we need to write, write, write the second version of this one, right?
[00:15:30] Grant Harris: Yeah, I'm not certain that I have another book in me, but yes, so the accessibility portion comes from two fronts, accessibility, meaning having access to the same conversations, the same mentors. Who is getting those doors, those physical and proverbial doors opened from an access point within the organization, what opportunities are given to whom how are those opportunities created, how are those opportunities administered over time and in a silo or not.
[00:16:02] So access from that perspective, having a quote unquote seat at the table, which I don't necessarily think is enough. A lot of people have a seat at the table, but they don't necessarily have a voice at that table and the voice isn't necessarily heard and then acted upon. So that's one side of accessibility from an opportunistic standpoint.
[00:16:24] The other side is from a disability standpoint, like physical access to buildings. Also accessible in this day and age of digital access and the Internet, how, uh, neuro divergent people and employees interact from that digital space how all of your employees interact in that digital space. So accessibility from a digital aspect, accessibility from a physical disability perspective, and accessibility from what you can't see, the non-apparent neurodivergent population, which is much larger and much deeper than what most people understand or know. All of that is accessibility as well.
[00:17:07] Nicole: Fantastic. All right. So I don't know, Grant, I probably shared with you, I have so many people who are in human resources that listen to this podcast and in leaders as well. And I think they're already getting a serious education. So thank you, thank you. All right. So you say that the power of diversity, equity, inclusion... in the book on page 16, you have a quote that says, "Diversity is the engine of invention. It generates creativity that enriches the world." And it comes from the Prime Minister of Canada. So would you interpret his quote, since you put it in the book, you thought it was that important and you've got three, four paragraphs after that. So will you talk about how important this diversity will make creativity and make the world a better place? I mean, don't we all want that? The world to be a better place? That's what I want.
[00:17:56] Grant Harris: Yes, 100%. And we all know things are happening with our neighbors to the north from a political perspective. And I try to stay out of that. But politics does inform how people interact with each other. It does inform how organizations move. And in this environment where we find that political forces, geopolitical forces, economic forces are tugging at the diversity strings, there's still room for creativity, innovation in the workplaces that we have, because even in environments where there is less diversity from a gender or race, ethnicity, nationality perspective, there are still ways to find that diversity. Because that's where neurodiversity comes in. That's where disability comes in. Even if people look the same, there are still mass differences between us that we can use to create a level of innovation and creativity. Now, I promote and encourage more diversity, higher diversity, deeper diversity. But it's not just about that, because you can have different people that look alike, and they come from different environments, but they're still sectioned off in silos. They never even interact with each other, or the leadership, with all of that diversity and all of those different groups of people and different ways of thinking and being, doesn't galvanize them and bring them together with one common goal. So that's why it drives that engine of creativity innovation, but just driving it and having all the parts of the vehicle isn't good enough, it has to have the driver. It has to have a passenger, people that are along for the ride, people that are following, people that are leading. This is how all of that works together.
[00:19:48] Nicole: Yeah. And, and we know that to be true because every organization I go into and do organizational development, like yourself, they're like, we have these silos. So, I mean, they talk about silos, right? And everybody complains about the silos. So, we know that people aren't coming together in a diverse way in many forms and fashions, getting the most bang for their buck in terms of solving problems and innovating and moving things forward. Now you've got in every chapter... listen, everybody, in every chapter, Grant's got like a major to do list for you. Like he's taken a lot of the guesswork out of, "Well, this is all good and well, Grant, but how do I do it?" But guess what? In the book, he's got, this is how you do it. So it's really exciting. 'Cause I think this book is kind of the gap between talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion and the rubber meeting the road. So that's what I'm talking about. We're right back to that car with the driver and the people in the backseat and all the stuff. All right. So page 19, here are some steps to help you make progress on your journey. And don't miss his great little quote, "compliance to community."
[00:20:50] And you've got six steps to kind of getting things rolling. One is engage in ongoing education and awareness programs. So if somebody wanted a _trusted_ education and awareness of what diversity, equity, and inclusion is, where would you point them? We'd point them to your book, but where else would you point people to get this education? I think that's one of the gaps. Where do I go find somebody I can trust and put in front of my people?
[00:21:18] Grant Harris: Yeah, well, there are formal and informal ways of getting an education. So formal ways are books, articles, these types of things from a physical standpoint. Informal ways are having conversations, building communities building communities of people that do the work. They have been in positions where social justice, equal employment... and I know that this podcast is focused on HR practitioners and a lot of that work is, but not all HR practitioners have been in these roles to advocate for these things. You could be in HR and have nothing necessarily to do with any of the things that I'm talking about. However, everything that I am talking about has something to do with the HR roles. So there are informal and formal ways of getting that education. I always encourage joining communities. One Slack community that I'm a proponent of is the DEI hub, which is free. And it's got over a thousand members from around the world, 12 to 15 different channels that talk about anything that you could imagine, and it's private and it's free. So I suggest that realm as well, if you're open to the Slack channels.
[00:22:32] Nicole: Fantastic.
[00:22:32] Grant Harris: Another is a disability advocacy partner, which is Joshin, J O S H I N. So the name Joshin. They are a disability advocacy partner, and they partner with actual HR firms from large corporate Fortune 500s to smaller midsize companies as well. And they have monthly webinar series about all different types of disability perspectives and topics. Matter of fact, for Black History Month, they have one coming up next week that I'm participating in talking about disability and neurodivergence from the Black perspective. So, I highly suggest tapping into Joshin and these free resources. They have monthly webinars on all things disability and how their coaches and their partners can interact with HR teams and leadership teams as well. So those are communities that I always suggest seeking out because you get to have interaction. It's one thing to read my book, which I certainly recommend.
[00:23:34] Nicole: I do too.
[00:23:34] Grant Harris: And sit with that and self reflect, but it's another to have conversation and take these things out into communities and out into workplaces with other people that are doing that work so that you can continue to listen and learn. And that's how I've done it as well. So those are two arenas that I highly suggest participating in.
[00:23:55] Nicole: Mm, that's fantastic.
[00:23:57] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference, or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results, your organization will get lit from within. Email her at Nicole at vibrant culture. com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com.
[00:24:23] Nicole: Okay. And then this next one I think is super duper important. You know, I think one of the functions of great leaders and of great HR folks is to get the right training in front of their people. And so, people are always like, what? What diversity, equity, and inclusion training is out there? What would you suggest? You know, if I wanted to put a program in my organization and expose everybody to it, what would you suggest? Because that's number two, actions for promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion in the workplace.
[00:24:54] Grant Harris: Yes. So it's well known and maybe not well known. DEIA training does not get the job done. So point blank, it doesn't get the job done. It doesn't move the needle. And I am a practitioner in this realm and I offer trainings and I do trainings.
[00:25:12] Nicole: Right.
[00:25:13] Grant Harris: But I also am honest because that is not the end goal. Doing a training, doing a webinar, having a workshop is all well and good. And I'm not saying don't do it. I am
[00:25:24] Nicole: No 'cause it's number two on your list.
[00:25:26] Grant Harris: Yeah. Do it, but it has to be in concert with other things. You are not going to get a more inclusive environment, a more respectful environment, a more equitable environment just by doing training. So I say that point blank, it is part of the overall puzzle. So one, I do trainings. I'm happy to talk to
[00:25:50] Nicole: Call Grant.
[00:25:51] Grant Harris: at all Uh, but I always say that this training and I come in... if a company, that's what they want, okay that's what you want. That's what you're willing to pay for, that's all well and good. I can do that, but I always say hey This is part of an overall service package because training is not going to get it done in and of itself. That said, I highly recommend trainings that are facilitation based and that are being engagement based. The self learning is not always the way to go because unfortunately we, as humans we will take the path of least resistance. So if you are an HR practitioner or leader, and you're looking for a type of training, and there's lots of different categories out there, dozens, all that, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the structure of what you're looking for. You should be looking for training and education that is engaging, that is not one and done, it takes time. There should be multiple different stages over time and they should be increasing in either engagement and/or, for lack of a better term, difficulty. Not like, it's rigorous, but they should be increasing in rigor in terms of, okay, we talked about this in our last session, how are we applying that in the workplace?
[00:27:05] Nicole: Oh, I think you nailed it right there. It's application.
[00:27:08] Grant Harris: is is the type of training, yes, that you should be looking for. How do we put it in practice, not, oh, well, did you take the self paced one hour training and did you just take the quizzes and that's it. That's not going to get the job done. So you should be looking for engaging training that over time-- for me, I recommend a minimum of three interactions. It's proven from a retail perspective. I used to work retail, my wife used to work retail, men and women shop differently, but men need to see an ad, a marketing ad, a subliminal message at least seven times before their brain says, Oh, I should go buy that thing. So that's just in retail. Imagine in something that is more focused on you as a person, your interpersonal communication. You're going to need to see these things and hear these things and interact with these things over time in multiple different ways. In order to see the effect and the ultimate outcome down the line. So that's the type of training that I recommend. I'm not going to say, Oh, go here and go here because you could go to A or B, but if you go to A or B and you don't have the right mindset about how to apply A or B, both of them are going to fail your organization.
[00:28:27] Nicole: Yeah, and that's true uh you know and what you also say is not only on diversity, equity and inclusion, but bias, cultural competence and emotional intelligence, which I teach that one all the time. And he's absolutely right. I mean, you can teach people leadership, doesn't mean they're going to go back and do their leadership differently. Right? So you've got to have where it's ongoing and I think-- another word I kind of like is immersive, getting people in a room for more than one hour, to your point so we can have a real dialogue, as I like to say. So that's really good. Alright, so let me just go through and say that number three is conduct an equity audit to identify organizational biases or barriers. Implement policies and practices is number four that promote fairness and equal access to opportunities and resources. Number five, foster a culture of inclusion by creating platforms and spaces for voices to be heard. So I'm going to go and I'm going to put the brakes on right there. I want to know, because I'm all about building the vibrant culture, how do I foster a culture of inclusion by creating platforms and spaces? Can you tease that one out for me?
[00:29:35] Grant Harris: So you'll see a common theme here. I always talk about informal or formal or physical or digital. There are multiple ways to get things done. So there are physical platforms and then there are digital platforms in order to do that within any organization. A physical platform to engage diverse voices could be as simple as uh, a cork board, and as simple as an index card box. Like you would think these things are elementary, no pun intended. I used to teach, I was an educator. But it could be as simple as that. It doesn't have to be hard. You don't have to have an Ivy League education to give people somewhere, something to interact with. Now, I'm not saying that you put a pegboard up in the break room and you're good because it's in the corner. No, these are things you can start with. These are things where people can see, Oh, someone cares enough about my voice to put this in a public space. And once you start doing those things, that's how you get the 1 percent better over time. So that's a rudimentary example from a physical space in a break room. But digital spaces, and more sophisticated, so to speak, is building dashboards, looking- and you don't have to call them equity dashboards, but that's what they will end up being- but building dashboards, using slack channels, creating digital communities and whatever you would like to call it within your organizational space where people know that they can go there and that they can have a safe space to express themselves and not disrespect others. It's not okay to express yourself and disrespect your colleague because you say, I have the right to say whatever I want about you. I disagree with that in the organizational aspect. So building these digital spaces that are safe and that are communicated to all employees at every level. Also from a leadership perspective, participating. Leaders have to participate in these conversations. If the leaders or the middle managers or the supervisors or the hiring managers are not part of these conversations and it's only subordinates, then you get the us versus them. Then you get the tug of war of the culture versus the we're in this together and we're building a community. And I'm having a conversation with you as a hiring manager, because I want to get better. You're having conversation with me as a frontline worker or as an intern, or as a tenured professor, because you want to get better as well.
[00:32:13] Now we have to be aware of the law. We have to be aware of separation of church and state when it comes to privacy and confidentiality. But all of those things can still be mitigated and you can still have conversations over a dedicated period of time, in dedicated channels, either online or off that people understand that we can have these conversations.
[00:32:37] It's not going to be perfect. There are going to be mistakes made. There are going to be obstacles, but if you are making the effort and then you're listening, you as, as leaders are listening to the people in order to make it better, that's how it's going to get better. And that's how it's going to get more effective and efficient. Versus just, we throw this out, we gave it to you a little bit, and you can do what you want with it, and then we'll change it again in six months. That's the ineffective, inefficient way to go.
[00:33:05] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there is a lot of starting and stopping going on right now. So I agree with you. Yeah. Okay. So, in the second section and see, we're only in chapter one, maybe we'll have to have you back a bunch. I don't know. So section two, you talk about like the modern business landscape. So of course people who own companies and run companies, they're interested in three things. And it's on page 20 in his book, better performance, innovation, and a competitive advantage. Can you kind of help us see how diversity, equity, inclusion fit into those three things? and accessibility! Don't let me mess up here, Grant.
[00:33:39] Grant Harris: There, well, those three things, yes, yeah. Well, those three things, uh, I would flip that if I understood the question properly. Those three things come from a diverse, equitable, and inclusive, and accessible environment. You will get productivity and innovation, uh, et cetera. From a neurodiversity perspective, I always talk about neurodiversity from a financial impact and a human impact. So in neurodiverse welcoming environments and organizations. Here's a little tidbit for you. So about 56% of Gen Z currently, uh, identify as neurodivergent, whether or not they've been diagnosed. So as you might know, Gen Z is the fastest growing population of the workforce. And we have four or five different generations in the workforce,
[00:34:33] Nicole: Yes.
[00:34:33] Grant Harris: But Gen Z is coming fast. And they're growing. So that's where you get in a competitive advantage because you have a segment of the population that's growing so quickly within the workplace. How do organizations take advantage of that? And if that particular segment is identifying heavily with neurodiversity, either saying, I think that I am neurodiverse myself, or I am around people who are, and I'm good with it, and I want to promote it, and I want to see more of it. Then that's going to impact your brand. That's going to give you a competitive advantage if you're utilizing and tapping into those resources from a generational worker perspective. And once you get that competitive advantage, that leads to innovation. Innovation doesn't always lead to productivity. I've never say, well, if you're going to be more innovative, then you're going to be more productive. That's not the case. I can think of ideas all day, but if those ideas are not making effective use of time, talent and treasure, then you are not being productive with that. The work that I do, I try to satisfy three goals: help organizations to make money, save money, and satisfy organizational goals. And you make money by being productive and innovative, and you save money by ensuring that your brand is attractive to basically the fastest growing population of workers coming up. And then to achieve and satisfy organizational goals, well, you should have diverse and equitable and inclusive organizational goals. And if you don't, you should do two things. One, you should read my book and two, you should call me and I can help you get there. Um, but these
[00:36:14] Nicole: Let me just hold the book up again. It looks like this on Amazon, people!
[00:36:19] Grant Harris: These are the things that are going to lead to that innovation and that productivity and that competitive edge: understanding the current workforce, understanding your current customer, and positioning yourself for that workforce and that customer to be loyal to you. And they're only going to be loyal to you if they identify with you and what you are putting out as an organization. And if they don't, then you're going to lose money. You're not going to make that money. You're not going to be productive and you'll be out of business.
[00:36:51] Nicole: Yeah. So give us an example of a company who's absolutely doing great things. Can you tell us a story? I know everybody is like, I want to get behind this, but who's good at this? Who's doing great work?
[00:37:04] Grant Harris: So right now, and I am not in the financial sector, but I think JP Morgan is is an excellent example. And from what I see and from what I know -on a large scale, and I'll give a small, smaller example as well- uh, I think the leadership there has been emphatic about not swaying from their mission, from their principles and saying that this is who we are and this is why we are. And not, not explaining themselves. That's a different ballgame. They're not saying, well, I have to explain myself to everyone that comes at us and says why aren't you doing, why are you doing this this way? They don't feel the need to explain themselves to outsiders. They're explaining themselves and reassuring the insiders that this is what we do. And this is why we do it because we care about you. We care about distressed communities. We care about underserved people. We care about the money and the finances that we make doing better for the people that need it the most in these instances. So that conversation to me is more to their people versus explaining themselves to the outside world. So I think JP Morgan is doing an excellent job right now. There are several other midsize companies that have come under scrutiny recently that I think are doing well. And let me back up. According to a Forbes survey, over 80 percent of corporate America, and organizations privately owned in the country, are holding onto and/or increasing their diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility goals and work.
[00:38:50] Nicole: Nice.
[00:38:51] Grant Harris: However, that's not the noise that you hear. The noise that you hear, you know, the few large, the few very large companies that said we're backing away, we're not doing this. And there's a caveat to that as well. Some of those organizations-- I'm not inside of them as well as I would like to be, but based on what I read and the research, some of those organizations, those types of policies or programs that they have set up are set to sunset around this time. And that's OK. What's not OK is doing away with the program based on political whims, left or right, up or down, doing away with programs based on pressure. That's not OK. If something you were doing is sunsetting because you had a five year goal and it's done. Okay, great. What's next? What's the evolution? Where do we go from here? What results did we get from that? What evidence did we get from that? And then you move forward. But JP Morgan, and I've been reading about them most recently, I think is an excellent organization in terms of how they are approaching this work. And how they are not explaining themselves to the outside world, but reassuring their employees that this is why we are who we are. And these are the principles that we're going to adhere to.
[00:40:10] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. It's taking care of their key stakeholders. I love it. Yeah. Okay. And so the next thing in the book is all about actions for organizations to implement. So we've kind of talked about, you know, how might you get started? But now that I start the training and like you said before, it's not a one and done, it's not a digital onsite watch the video, check the box thing. It's a real program. So how are we going to implement this? And the first thing you said is foster a sense of belonging for employees by implementing inclusive practices. So can you give us an example of an inclusive practice?
[00:40:49] Grant Harris: Practices come from policies, and policies are both written, formal, and informal as well. So, I like to use an example of language because we all can control our language. The words that we use, in the order that we use them, and the place that we use them. So, an inclusive practice from the neurodiversity standpoint is there's a difference between the medical model of neurodiversity, which is all about disorder, disease, dysfunction. And then there's a strength model, which is all about understanding and appreciating people's unique traits of how they think and how they behave. So instead of calling autism a disorder, just say autism. Instead of saying this person has autism, which gives the impression that it is something that was placed on them, not something that is inherent in them-- and that's what I believe, that autism and other neurodivergent traits are inherent, and not something that is just placed on someone-- that gives the impression that it's bad. So we're gonna call this a disease, we're gonna call it a disorder and that person has that. And then thereby that person is othered and less than because people who are neurotypical or who do not identify as being neurodivergent, or have not had a diagnosis to say so from a medical perspective, somehow now they think better than people who are neurodivergent, which is not the case. They just think differently. So doing away with the medical paradigm and the medical model and using dysfunction and disease and disorder and then changing words to just calling it what it is, autism versus autism disorder. This person is autistic and asking how people want to be referred to. And again, that's a way of using words and interpersonal. Well, how do you want to be, do you say you're an autistic person or do you say you're a person with autism and then explain why you're asking. Because I want to respect you. I want to be sure that I get it right because we work together or all of that. So not just, uh, investigating. Well, why do you say you're this? That's an investigation.
[00:43:21] Nicole: And don't miss his attitude right there.
[00:43:24] Grant Harris: Yeah. Uh, so it's not about investigating a person and you don't have the right to investigate someone else's personal conviction about how they identify and just like, they don't have the right to do it to you. However, you should, from an interpersonal communication standpoint, be comfortable enough and be able to ask people how they would like to be referred to? Nicknames-- I always want to get a name right, so I say Richard could be shortened as Rich. Do you like your name short? Like how should I pronounce your name? Do you want me to say your whole name? These types of communication things lead to a more inclusive environment versus using derogatory medical terms that are all based on disorder and dysfunction and negativity and transitioning that to remove the disorder and dysfunction to highlight the positive traits in that person. And then ask and have a conversation with that person about how they identify, why they identify that way without being investigatory. Not saying, Oh, well, I just want to know why, so I can disagree with you. No, I want to know why you identify that way so that we can work together best, I can understand you better and I can respect you better. These are inclusive ways to communicate within the workplace.
[00:44:48] Nicole: Yeah, I love it. Well, we are already at the end of the hour that we're going to spend together and it just flew right by. I can't believe it. But here's what I want to do. I don't want to leave people hanging. I do want to say that he's got nine more actions for organizations to implement diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. And y'all, I only got to page 23. I got all of these things in here we need to talk about. So maybe Grant will give me one more hour of his time someday. We can play this podcasting game again with him. I just want to thank you so much. If you want to figure out how to do diversity, equity, and inclusion right. And add the A for me, Grant.
[00:45:31] Grant Harris: Accessibility
[00:45:32] Nicole: There we go. That's going to be, that's going to be the second edition, y'all. All right. And it's "Develop policies and procedures," if you've been wondering how in the world to do that, it's in here, "How to create a DEI framework, measure progress, get accountability and make systemic --that's his organizational development background, I love that. I got one of those too-- systemic changes in the workplace. This is the book you need. It is by Grant Harris, and you need to hashtag #WeNotMe when you post this podcast all over the internet. I am so grateful that you came here. How can people find you? Because they need you. How do they find you?
[00:46:09] Grant Harris: There are a couple places. I keep it streamlined, so, my website is www.compliancetocommunity.com. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn as well. And in the show notes, I'll give you my Link Tree website. I list all of my speaking, my writing my peer group is there, my capabilities for organizations looking for consultants like myself. So I will share that with you as well, but LinkedIn is where I stay and where I communicate and where you can come for more thoughts on implementing neurodiversity in the workplace and also thoughts on diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.
[00:46:50] Nicole: Oh, that's so good. All right, Grant, thank you so much for being with me. And hey, all of my SHRM friends listening, invite Grant to speak at your chapter meeting, your state meeting, get him out there to talk to everybody. We appreciate you so much, Grant. Keep up the good work. And I just want to say, I have loved listening to your children in the background. I love kids so much, you have no idea. And I just kept hearing, I just kept hearing like little squeals of delight. And so that was like bonus for me. So I'm grateful. Good to be with you.
[00:47:20] Grant Harris: They're fun. Have a good one. Thank you.
[00:47:22] Nicole: Thank you.
[00:47:23] Announcer: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. If you found value in today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more like minded listeners. Remember, the journey to building a vibrant culture never stops. Stay inspired, keep nurturing your vibrant culture, and we can't wait to reconnect with you on the next exciting episode of Build a Vibrant Culture podcast.