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Ask Ms. Robyn is the essential guide for parents navigating the transition of their children from high school to college and career. Host Robyn Hadley interviews experts and families, offering practical advice on everything from securing financial aid and understanding the importance of GPA and transcripts to building a strong support team. Each episode helps you explore all viable post-secondary pathways—whether it's a four-year university, community college, or a trade apprenticeship—ensuring your student is prepared for a successful and economically secure future.
Presented by Robyn Hadley
Learn more at www.askmsrobyn.com
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Ask Ms. Robyn. We welcome your visits to askmsRobyn.com and also we welcome your visits and wish you'd follow us on Facebook as well as Instagram. I'm delighted today that we have a wonderful panelist, someone I've known for many many years, Kim Davis, who's from here in North Carolina.
She has over 26 years serving in multiple student support positions including school social work, school counseling, and is lead secondary counselor. Her current title is high school specialty programs counselor and the career development coordinator and the reason I wanted to have her on for our parents and mentors and families is that the world of higher ed just looks so different than it did 10 or 15 years ago when Kim and I met and it was generally one pathway to a four-year degree, one pathway to work or the military, but now with so many questions regarding the cost and utility of a four-year degree, these career and technical education options have become more valuable. So Kim, if you could just share with us what you are seeing in the schools today as a counselor.
You're also a parent. You've worked at the middle school level as well as a social worker and so the floor is yours to get us a little better educated about what some of the options are besides a four-year degree. Sure, well thank you Robyn and thank you for having me today.
I'm super excited to be here with you. What I am seeing, Robyn, is that families and students are definitely looking to be a part of something. They're wanting to be connected and students, I have noticed, are really eager to jump into the workforce even as high school students.
They want to work. They want to make money. They are definitely looking at post-secondary options.
I feel like much sooner we do a lot of work with middle and high school students developing career development plans and what we're seeing is that students are super eager to find their paths. Another big thing we're seeing is that districts, not just in North Carolina, but across the country are doing a phenomenal job of making opportunities available to students to get them on the pathway they want to be on, to provide coursework that supports that path, and opportunities for them to earn credentials, industry-recognized credentials, while they're still in high school to set them up for success. That sounds great and as we know with these options come many different pathways, whether you're coming from eighth grade into high school, 10th grade into 11th grade, and again these are options whether your student is third in the class or maybe midway in the class.
Years ago, I know there were there were just these GPA, I guess, requirements or class ranking requirements. It seems like the CTE opportunities kind of level the playing field in some ways. I would say absolutely they do.
We do not put parameters on who can enroll in our courses. We do not put strict parameters on who can take our welding courses, our firefighter, our future teachers. We want these opportunities to be available to all students, right, and what we also want is for students to have the opportunity while they're in high school to explore these careers and these courses because we know that if we wait they may not find their selected pathway and also we know that chances are if students take a CTE course they are much more successful in high school.
I think the statistic is they're 90 percent. The graduation rate for students enrolled in CTE courses is over 90 percent, which is great nationwide. So we want students in there.
We want to be inclusive of all students. So I'm a mom or I'm a parent. Who do I talk to at the school? What websites do I go to? How do I get myself educated? I know in some of the materials that you share with me there are pathways for digital design and animation, automotive, health sciences, construction, culinary arts.
When are they taking English and math? Are they doing that all at the same time? They are. They are. Our students today are phenomenal.
They can juggle a lot, believe it or not. A lot of times they will tell you, though, that their career and technical education courses are their favorite courses. Our students love the hands-on and they get that a lot in the career and technical education courses.
In terms of who to contact, I always, of course, want to advocate for contacting your child's school counselor and doing that early on. So don't wait until they're in high school. Start those conversations early.
We're doing career exploration and career development in elementary school now, but definitely in middle school, because in middle schools we're offering the career and technical education classes as well. So start with your school counselor, just having a conversation about, you know, I think my child might be interested in this or, you know, having that first conversation. And then as they progress and get into high school, also asking, does your school have a career development coordinator? Do they have a work-based learning coordinator? Talking with career and technical education teachers, because those teachers are going to be the ones running the CTSOs, the Career and Technical Student Organizations, like an FFA or an FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America, Future Farmers of America.
So these student, technical student organizations offer so many opportunities for students beyond the classroom. They have the opportunity to compete locally at the state and national level in different competitions related to maybe that chosen organization, maybe health science. But also within that, just some soft skills, interviewing, speaking, resume writing.
So I'm guessing many of our parents may not know about some of those options, because we know about the traditional Student Government Association. We know about DECA. We know about being in the band or being on athletic teams.
But what you're talking about is that there are kind of, I guess we would call them, pre-professional or paraprofessional organizations that can help you help your student get better acclimated with the academic requirements, but also just what some of the expectations of an employer are going to be, even if they're a teenager. Absolutely, and the CTSOs, it's booming. CTSO? Career and Technical Student Organizations.
Yes, that's the big term for like your FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America or FFA. Now there's an FCCLA, which is Family Consumer Sciences. Lots of different pathways and organizations have opened up, and they give students the opportunity to do things outside and beyond the classroom.
And this is where we really hook students. This is where they get engaged. This is for students, you know, I have worked with students that have hated school, absolutely hated, and wanted to drop out.
We could get them connected in a Career and Technical Education course, and a CTSO totally changes the trajectory. Because it gives them something to connect to, maybe they don't see it more traditional. Absolutely, and gets them a part of a friend group, right? Of students that have other interests, and interests that align with theirs.
One of the things that I got a real surprise about this week, I was at a presentation over at Alamance Community College, and the president there talked about the fact that they have over 30 summer camps that are going to be based at the community college this summer. That was unheard of 15 or 20 years ago. We might have one or two, but again the population at that time at the community college was more older students, people who were maybe pivoting in their careers as a result of the recession in 2008, you know, and beyond.
We have many, many more high school students who are taking courses there. Talk about summer camps, and again just how in communities across the country our four-year institutions, two-year institutions, and even industry associations are trying to engage students at a younger age just to get them exposed. Absolutely, yes, we've seen a boom in that.
We are so fortunate here in our community. Our community college opens its doors a lot for our students. They want students in.
They are offering middle school camps, so we have middle schoolers going to camps at the community college, and not only that, but like if it's an emergency medical science camp, they have those students in those classrooms using that equipment. You can't get much more engaged with that with a middle school student, so we have been very fortunate to have that, so I would definitely recommend students and families looking at all the opportunities, and you could even call your local community college or four-year university if you're not getting information from the school, and just say what opportunities do you all provide for school-aged, you know, K-12 students, and I guarantee you there are opportunities. Yeah, we, you and I talked about that earlier, and we certainly saw that.
We were working in individual schools 10, 15 years ago that our counseling and student support services staffs are often swamped, and so if you're a parent and you can't make it to that 6 p.m. meeting or that 7 p.m. meeting, I'm guessing you need to knock on some doors to say, hey, you know, can these information sessions be recorded so we can watch them later, or is there anything early in the morning or on a weekend? In your experience, are schools or administrators kind of open to that kind of request from parents? I think they would definitely entertain it, and I think one thing I want to say is, you know, to parents and families, you have to advocate for your child. You know, if you feel like you're asking questions and not getting information back or you're not able to attend the events that have been planned and no one's returning your call about what maybe you missed, keep pushing. Keep pushing.
You know, ask, you know, is there someone else at that building that can help me get this information? It's super important that you advocate, you know, and your student advocate. I know sometimes our students need help with that, but don't let, you know, just a lack of response be the answer because you really have to educate. Get out there and educate yourself because here's the thing.
Things are changing so rapidly, right? Here locally, we are creating new cohorts every year. We've just built a new criminal justice cohort, a machining cohort, so things are changing and growing. So break down a little bit.
Tell me what you mean when you say we've just built a new cohort. So what is it as a parent? I'm working two or three jobs. I'm listening to the voicemails that the principal leaves.
I'm going to Facebook. Tell me what I should be listening for. Listen for words like special programs, cohort, new opportunity.
So we are partnering with our local community college. We are looking at like market, job market trends, labor analysis, and we're looking at student interest, right? So when we have, when we know we have a lot of students that want to sign up for a criminal justice course or forensic science, we know there's interest there. So we talk with our local community college and we plan and we build courses that fit into the instructional school day that would fit a high school student's schedule well, and then the community college will offer the courses in our bell schedule, sometimes on their campus, sometimes on our campus, and then we as a K through 12 school system, we provide transportation to the community college.
We may buy their textbooks, and of course the tuition is covered in North Carolina under the Career and College Promise Program. So students have the opportunity to earn free college credits if they become a part of this cohort. You were telling me, I think earlier, was it the salary of it for an 18-year-old or 20-year-old out of one of these cohorts in a particular occupation.
Can you give us a ballpark or a range? Well, I'll use welding as an example. So we have started welding in our district, and we of course partner with our community college. We have a college instructor that comes to one of our high school campuses.
She teaches four welding classes a day. If students do the program both semesters year long, they earn a certificate in basic welding. Now, some folks say they can get go to work and making about $50,000 a year with a basic welding certificate.
I guess it all depends on who would hire them and the community, but we are putting students into the workforce early. We have within one of the schools where I work, our Career and Technical Education Center, we have a health sciences program. We're going to produce about 70 students hopefully at the end of the school year that will have earned their CNA before they graduate from high school.
And the CNA is certified nursing assistant so they can go to work. And again, so let's take that one lane. So if I get my CNA, what are the additional steps that could be ahead for me? Absolutely.
So some of our students that will earn that want to get straight into the workforce. They know they want to work full time. They want to be in CNA.
A lot of our students that are doing that pathway want to become registered nurses. So they will go straight into a four-year university and work on their RN. A lot of our students are going the community college route because it's such an affordable opportunity.
So they'll do two years at their local community college and then transfer to a nursing program. We have a lot of our nursing students who not only are doing the CNA, but they're also taking advantage of my emergency medical science, my EMS cohort, because they know they have a higher chance of getting into nursing school if they have their EMT certification, emergency medical technician, and they're employable in an emergency room with an EMT. So I'll work as an EMT as I put myself through nursing school.
So it sounds like what you're telling me, and I hear this from a lot of parents, again, their individual student's awareness level varies. Their sense of urgency varies. But it sounds to me like over the last 10 years or so, there's been a lot of discussion, engagement with industry, a lot of review of the data, a lot of review of the costs.
And this is a I think we may have used the term kind of to hook students, if you will. So if you've got a student whose top's in their class and wants to go to medical school, or you've got a student or my student is just coming home every day and telling me they hate school, that this offers kind of a buffet of options, I'll describe it as without penalty. And what I mean by that is I think we talked about the fact that you could take a class in photography or you could take a class in digital design or something and you find out, I don't like this.
This isn't what I want to do. But you still have opportunities to pivot so that you can meet your high school graduation requirements. And it's less expensive to do that than if you're paying for it at the community college or the four-year college level.
Absolutely. We want them to dip their toes in while they're still in high school. I've had several students that just knew they wanted to become a nurse.
They wanted to be in health science. They take one health science class and they decide, oh, I don't think this is for me. They've been able to pivot and find another program.
Now they're part of our teacher scholars program. They're going to be future teachers. We would much rather them do that in 10th, 11th grade as opposed to when they're sitting at a four-year university paying for coursework.
So does, again, most of I know what we've talked about deals with kind of schools here in North Carolina, but in your engagement nationally. I mentioned earlier you were our state's counselor of the year. You were semi-finalist for national counselor of the year.
So does every school system have a high school specialty programs counselor like you? So if we've got parents sitting in Iowa or anywhere else, how do they engage again with the school? You've indicated clearly you need to advocate for your student. But this framework probably looks a little bit different state to state. Sure, it does.
And I cannot tell you that I have ever met another high school specialty programs counselor. Our district saw the need, saw the demand, and worked to put this position in place, which I'm so thankful for. So I would say you would start with school counselors, career development coordinators.
That's a common position across the country. And if they're not able to get information there, I would go as far as contacting central office at the district level and just say, you know, who's over your career technical education? Every school district typically has a CTE director. So you could say, I would like to get in touch with a CTE director.
I want to know about all the opportunities in our district for my child. And so in your role, what do employers tell you about the students who are apprenticing with them or come to work for them right out of high school or even after a four-year degree? What kind of feedback do you get from employers? Because that's very important. Great question.
We get feedback. We are getting a lot of feedback about employers wanting to get students as soon as possible. And not necessarily in a paid position, but they love to have students come in and do job shadowing, internships, apprenticeships, because students need to really see what is involved with the work.
Employers are saying that some of our students are having a hard time maybe showing up on time. Attendance isn't as strong as it should be. They're having some difficulties with problem solving, putting the cell phone away.
Just some basic things that students that have never worked or never been in a work setting don't understand. So the employers would love to work with high school students just to help do some of that coaching before they get them as employees. I think when you and I spoke earlier, I was telling you I found some research that said that employers who were hiring recent college graduates tended to hire graduates who had worked.
That simply having some work experience during the four-year college journey was a big plus because it meant that they already knew some of the basics, like you said, regarding privacy policies and the cell phone or being on time, hopefully wearing appropriate attire and things like that. So it sounds like the employers are saying the same thing, even if they're apprenticing or allowing teenagers to shadow. It's helping them grow up some.
Absolutely, absolutely. I can tell you as the mother of a daughter, my daughter will go to work while she's in high school. I think it's very valuable, not just to earn money, but to develop the soft skills.
When you are working, you are interacting with people, with customers. You learn a lot just about the world. You learn a lot about yourself.
So I will advocate every day for high school students to get a job. I know a lot of parents will say, oh, they're so busy. I'm sure they are, but even if it's just eight hours a week, something to get them in a routine of working and they learn so many skills, soft skills.
I would agree with you. I think just being organized and time management, having spent decades working with a wide range of students, just when they are working, sometimes if they're getting a paycheck or they're getting their volunteer hours, that necessity to be better organized and understanding that very possibly on the other end of this is the need to ask someone for a letter of recommendation. Now, that's not the only reason you show up and do your job every day.
But as Dr. Brown in our first episode said, we're talking about a piece of paper or some kind of credential. And every student, whatever their age, they're going to have to fill out a form. And at some point, they're going to have to ask for that letter of recommendation.
And you want somebody to be able to tell your story so that you can get to the next step, whether that's in your academic journey or in your professional journey. I am absolutely certain we could probably talk for another hour. But as we kind of come to a close, what are the things that I have missed in asking you that parents are asking you or students are asking you? Because one of the things I think about is I do think that there may be some parents or mentors out there saying, this is just too early.
Students don't need to be working that soon. They don't need to be focused just on job skills. They should be enjoying more of high school and learning just how to engage with their peers, do the community service, do the leadership, and that kind of thing.
What do you say to those parents? This is what I say. With proper time management, they can do a lot of things. They can.
And one thing I will say is I've heard a lot of parents say, well, you know, he's in high school now. He's got to figure it out. Or she's in high school, and I'm going to let her do her thing.
Really, our young people still need us. They need us all the way through high school. And I see it every day.
I see young people that, you know, they need, I'll say, you need to make a phone call. They might be asking about a job or a dual enrollment class that they're having some difficulty with. They might need to call the community college.
And they'll look at me, and they'll say, I don't know what to say, Ms. Davis. I don't know what to put in the email. They still need us.
They still need some of that coaching. And if you do it with them a time or two, they'll figure it out. They'll learn.
So I just say to parents, stay engaged. Don't assume just because they're in high school and making straight A's that they've got it figured out. Be there for them.
And they might not want to talk with you about careers, and they not, you know, but stand behind them almost as a coach to say, I'm with you. I'm going to support you wherever this journey takes you. And if your student, and you'll know, if your child is not one that's going to ask questions, you be the one right there with them asking the questions.
My mother, I remember her telling lots of parents or giving them the advice, go work in the concession stand. Volunteer to do something at that school so that you can meet with other parents and learn from them and share with them. You can meet teachers.
You can meet administrators. You have to have a relationship of some sort with someone at that school who can be your child's cheerleader, who can help you somewhat even say interpret or translate those school announcements and opportunities. Again, because you as a parent head down, you're working the two or three jobs.
You're just trying to cross the T's and dot the I's. So it really is a process, I think, of parents and mentors getting better educated about what's going on there in the school at the same time that the teenager is getting educated. You have had an incredible career, again, as a social worker, school counselor.
Why don't you sign us off with the one piece of advice you would love for parents to have as we, as they head into a summer break, as they prepare for a new semester, kind of take a break and look at what the next few years is going to hold for their teenager. Wow, that's big. Here's what I say.
It all goes by so fast and now that I'm a parent, I really get that. The years are flying by. The days are long, but the years fly by.
So I would just say take every opportunity you can to engage with your child, even if it's just in the car, right, about what their interests are. What, you know, what do you think your strengths are? And then you say, well, these are the strengths I see in you. Sometimes students have never thought about what their strengths are.
Nobody's ever asked them that. You don't want the first time they get asked that to be at a job interview, right? You know, as you're out and about in different businesses or restaurants, you know, talk with your child about careers. I'll say to my daughter, oh, look, I wonder what they're doing over there.
That looks like an interesting job. And might even go up to that person and say, tell us a little about your job. My daughter and I are very interested.
So just having the small little conversations frequently and spending time. You have to spend time together. And I know it's hard.
Teenagers want to go in the room, shut that door. And use the thumbs to communicate. Absolutely.
Kim, thank you again for your time. I know we'll have to have you back for another episode, but I think you've enlightened a lot of us again about at least asking questions and being more aware of opportunities for career and technical education for teenagers so that they can level the playing field and get where they want to go. We thank you again for coming to be with the folks here at Ask Ms. Robyn, and we'll see you soon.
Thank you, Robyn.