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S6 EP14 | The Fantastic Four may soon rise above the failures of previous iterations, but they aren't the only great characters to languish in obscurity or relegated to anonymity. History is filled with forgotten heroes who deserve a time to shine, and the Studio demands four such heroes be found for an epic piece of historical fiction.
Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media
Hello and welcome to the studio demands that an exercise in creative thinking where we will conceptualize, pitch and craft a film or series based on the demands of one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. Hypothetical. I didn't know I didn't know what to expect there. As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time.
Speaker 2:All the time.
Speaker 1:And we like to believe we can meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am TC DeWitt. And joining me as always is Jim Now there's drums. Now there's drums Burzelic.
Speaker 1:Noisy nosy neighbor no noisy neighbor Burzelic. Sorry. Your middle name is it's got the umlop over the u.
Speaker 2:It it does. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's very strange.
Speaker 2:We have a a new intern. They're gonna supply a a scoring Very live scoring to the episode. They're very new, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They
Speaker 2:So they're they're gonna work it out.
Speaker 1:Very new at drumming even, and they only have the one tom.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's how drumming starts. You always start with one drum, and as you level up, you get another drum.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I've seen whiplash. I know. I yeah. So above us, a toddler is currently playing a drum and hopefully oh, and thumping around.
Speaker 1:We we've discussed the toddler goblins before. I don't know if it's even coming in through the mics I don't either. So yeah. Do but do you have experiences with noisy neighbors? Have you felt that you've been the noisy neighbor?
Speaker 2:I think I've been the noisy neighbor. Yeah. There's there's only one occasion in which me and my friends back in high school were really really loud way too late one evening Mhmm. And the neighbors did actually call the police.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Okay. But we deserved that. We were literally yelling at the tops of our voices and yelling about how the neighbors must be very upset with us.
Speaker 1:I bet the neighbors are round pissed right now. It's it's wild to me when noisy neighbors complain about noise. Yes. You how dare you? Yeah.
Speaker 1:You are by far so much more disruptive and noisy than I ever could be. I mean, I could be. Yeah. I choose not to be.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's nice of you.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna be a noisy neighbor. It I the thing that always strikes me and I and it it every time it happens, I realize, like, oh, that means this. When I can clearly hear people talking through the walls or above me,
Speaker 2:that means they can hear you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, no. They've they've listened to lots of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I I think about that regularly, and I get real uncomfortable. My my my previous roommates, friends of the podcast Mhmm. Have have talked about how thin the walls are in the I when I used to live with them.
Speaker 2:And every time they bring it up, I kinda, like, clench because I never really heard them. So they Never. Like, they weren't thin walls to me, which means, oh god, what did they hear?
Speaker 1:Every fart. Oh, no. Every fart. Every fart and audible reaction to said fart. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whoo. Oh, man. You didn't hear that one, but boy, can you smell it. Yeah. And that's the only fart joke for the episode.
Speaker 1:Yep. I'm gonna stop it right there.
Speaker 2:We I believe you. Yeah. I believe you.
Speaker 1:Good. I wouldn't lie to you, Jim. I wouldn't lie to our listeners because our listeners have given us demands from studios literally all over the world, and they're the reason we keep this show a going. You listening now, you can send us any yeah. We got a we got the they can't hear.
Speaker 1:I I I They they
Speaker 2:probably can't hear.
Speaker 1:It's just us. Yep. You can send us any demand you'd like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spot. And when we reach the end of the episode, if we've done our jobs, we'll have pitched a full script and story meeting or possibly exceeding those demands. And when the end of the season comes, your demand could have helped us craft the script that will be greenlit by the fans for our finale.
Speaker 1:Thank you to everyone who has submitted. Please keep them coming. Today's demand alright. Let me bring it up here. Here we go.
Speaker 1:Is from Here
Speaker 2:it comes.
Speaker 1:Okay. Is from Sam and Katie at terrible two pictures. The Fantastic Four. This is why I picked this.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I I key searched Fantastic Four. We had a couple demands. One that we've already done Cool. That we did that last season. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You are you surprised?
Speaker 2:I am surprised.
Speaker 1:You suddenly remembered? Yeah. Okay. So Sam and Katie, here we go. The Fantastic Four is a team of four individuals who are connected through blood, loyalty, love, shared trauma, and a freak cosmic twist of fate that bestowed them with powers complementary to their personalities.
Speaker 1:Very true. We'll get to it. Never mind. The nature thing. They work together as a family to face all sorts of threats and wondrous adventures saving the world time and again and often as the last men and women standing.
Speaker 1:The Avengers may be the Earth's mightiest heroes, but the Fantastic Four are the first and greatest. We are lucky as comic readers to have been given these fictional heroes to guide us with love and determination. Oh, that's very sweet. Even if pop culture outside of comics has allowed them to languish and rarely be listed as the best or most important characters in comics or film. True.
Speaker 1:History may change soon, but for now, the f f are easily cast aside into the shadows of time. Okay. Where are going here? With that said, our studio demands a light be shone upon four other characters. Four others who history and pop culture should remember.
Speaker 1:And we ask not that you dig into comics history. History. We want you to search actual history. Our demand is that you reach back into the past as through some freak cosmic twist of fate, pluck four fantastic figures out of time and space, and pitch a film that tells a tale worthy of being called fantastic. Use real figures or legends if need be.
Speaker 1:Choose your time and location. Have a doom sized villain who threatens the world. Show us what heroes humanity has had. Excelsior. Thank you.
Speaker 1:That's them. That was them saying Excelsior. Sam and Katie, thank you for a fantastic for historical fiction. Is that what this is? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Basically. Alright. Okay. I was all prepped with some comic possibilities, but I did not consider historical possibilities, Jim. Okay.
Speaker 1:Alright.
Speaker 2:So So my pitch.
Speaker 1:Woah. Jumping in. Here we go.
Speaker 2:There's these two teenagers.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And they're they're big old slackers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they need to complete a history project.
Speaker 1:Okay. Are they Someone from the future Okay.
Speaker 2:Comes back in time to them and says, hey, you are a
Speaker 1:big deal in the future.
Speaker 2:So it's important you pass this this test.
Speaker 1:Those two teenagers are a big deal?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so he gives them his time machine and lets them go in time to pick the the the the greatest figures that these two teenagers know of
Speaker 1:Great.
Speaker 2:To bring to the future
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:To to help them finish their project. Because as we all know, homework is the most devious villain Well there is.
Speaker 1:Especially if those two guys guys. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those two guys are a big deal in the future. It makes sense that this is some sort of pivotal moment in their timeline. Yeah. That sounds excellent. That sounds excellent.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It'll be an adventure. Podcast over.
Speaker 1:Alright. Cool. There you go, Katie and Sam. We'll call it William and Ted's
Speaker 2:Theodore. William and Theodore.
Speaker 1:Oh, darn it. There we go. Yes. Bill and Ted. Well, now you are that's funny for you to reference that, but the demand does specifically say a villain who's threatening the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I suppose if Bill and Ted don't do their project, the world will be over because there will be the crumbling of society. Right?
Speaker 2:Sort of. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Cheeky fun. Okay. Testing our history brains. I I suppose it would be like easy gimmes.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, George Washington, is, you know, a a badass general, but, surely there's some Billy the Kid, Abraham Lincoln Mhmm. So crates. Right? Where where's your head go with this? This is a this is an interesting demand here.
Speaker 2:Well, the first things I think of are the things that I know that have done this. There was a comic that I think they they actually well, no. They used mostly historical figures that I really liked and had a very short run. And I can't remember the name of the comic, so this is an entirely pointless story.
Speaker 1:Oh, god. But it
Speaker 2:was it was an image comic from the late nineties, early two thousands
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That starred Sam Clemens and Oh. Annie Oakley.
Speaker 1:Okay. So Mark Twain and and Annie Oakley? Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.
Speaker 1:But you you didn't like this?
Speaker 2:No. Well, no. I did. I collected the whole thing. No.
Speaker 2:I I quibbled about certain things like it cast Tesla as this sort of secondary villain who just made weapons for the for the for the bad guy.
Speaker 1:Who who who is it? Who's the
Speaker 2:bad guy? Tesla. Tesla. Okay. No.
Speaker 2:Tesla wasn't he was cast as a secondary villain. Okay. I don't remember who the it might have been Thomas Edison. I don't remember for sure.
Speaker 1:Alter nations. That's the one. Yes.
Speaker 2:That's the one. You found it.
Speaker 1:Got it. Alter nation from Image Comics 02/2004. Would well, with with that said, you is Tesla a character you'd offer? Okay. Sure.
Speaker 1:Let's see. If we're thinking Fantastic Four Yep. Let's use Fantastic Four as a template, which is more or less what we're being asked here. Right? It's it is what we're being asked.
Speaker 1:And taking time out of the equation because we can have people from all over history
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Let's think of our forming five. Well, Doom is our villain, unless you wanna do Namor. No. They said doom sized villain. Let's think of those let's read Sue, Ben, and Johnny and start thinking of historical figures.
Speaker 2:Sure. There's a number of ways we could do this. We could start with the villain and figure out what kind of heroes could stop them.
Speaker 1:We've been doing that more than once this season, so it might be way to go. I think it's a great way
Speaker 2:to go. I'd write if I don't know. Like like starting with He Man and figuring out Skeletor is is, I guess, a fine way to do it. But knowing your alien is going to be the predator and then coming up with Dutch and his his
Speaker 1:Crew. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Crew. I think feels more natural than to be like, we got some mercenary guys. How do we sci fi this up?
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Mhmm. Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, yeah. Do we thinking of a doom threaten the world style villain. This is verging into League of Extraordinary Gentlemen territory, which are all
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:All fictional characters, literary characters. We did our Millennium's End Mhmm. Which is all our movie characters. So maybe maybe in a sense, we are putting together a a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen here.
Speaker 2:Well, it and it's real people. It's not not fictional Right. Right. Characters.
Speaker 1:So thinking of some villains oh, we saw something recently. I I thought Faust popped up in Ironheart.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:I know Faust is is Faust is fictional, but it's it's German folklore could be inspired by like Vlad the Impaler. There's a there's a real person
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:That inspired fiction.
Speaker 2:I think we're we're gonna be going a little more pulpy action. Well, no. It was very action oriented. I don't know if we'd wanna do some something like Hitler. I feel like doing something like Hitler should be more comedic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I Like, right, like danger five fought. Danger five was such a weird show. It was amazing. I I recommend checking it out for my brand of humor. He was reincarnated in a high school girl in the eighties, and he was kinda good for, like, half of the season, but then too much Hitler came out and it became bad again.
Speaker 1:Hey. Also, the bad guy in Kung Fury, the feature films.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna use him. I I would I I think we should avoid that.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go through sort of the the quick the quick obvious gimmies. Okay. I could think of some modern day people I would love to vilify,
Speaker 1:but Sure. I can They're doing fine themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, in in fictionalizing them, I don't wanna do that just yet.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:We'll we'll wait a decade before we we start saying, yeah, they're a bad person and we're gonna start murdering them with heroes.
Speaker 1:Yes, please. Okay.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Go ahead. Napoleon is is another one. Mhmm. Genghis Khan.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Attila the Hun. Sure.
Speaker 1:Nero. Oh, Nero Nero. Yeah. Yeah. That that's not bad.
Speaker 2:Does he have fire powers?
Speaker 1:Oh, well, yeah. If Nero is like some sort of pyro kinetic. Yeah. I that's another thing is deciding how we give if we if we enhance that
Speaker 2:another way to to choose, like, what powers do we want to to have represented here, and then we can find historical figures that kind of match those powers.
Speaker 1:Let let's stay on the villain track right now. Nero's not bad. Do you know John Dee, d e e, John Dee?
Speaker 2:Of course, I know John.
Speaker 1:You do know John Dee. Okay. Yeah. We sure. You wanna share?
Speaker 2:He's the he's the the the the the father of of don't even know if he'd be modern anymore, but basically mysticism.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yeah. He was he was a mathematician. He was an astrologer. He was an alchemist.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Just like you listing some of the gimmes, you know, Mussolini and whatnot. Yeah. It's like, okay. Let's while you've been thinking that, I've been thinking like, what are some like cool, albeit upsetting villains Sure.
Speaker 1:That aren't those go to ones. This could be a fun way to pull some history out of the shadows.
Speaker 2:Well, if he's using magic that because the other thing is how how are we gonna have people through time come together?
Speaker 1:Right. That that whatever our freak cosmic event and we can find that. But John Dee was an adviser to Queen Elizabeth the first.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:He he was a scholar. He was a scientist. But he he was totally like into mysticism. And he tried to he tried to re like re communicate with like angels and
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Discover the language of the universe. Yep. And, like, he was he was an obsessive. He was obsessed with hidden knowledge fate. He believed you could you could somehow conquer fate.
Speaker 1:So he has, like, super villain tendencies in him. And he was he was celebrated for a time Mhmm. Because of his, like, science and math and all that, and he still actually has there's some things that he created within history that are still applicable today. Like, did he just became a supervillain kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And but he when he died, he died he just died like, went into obscurity. He he had he died of in poverty. Like, he had everything and lost everything, which feels like a villain arc.
Speaker 2:Did you learn about John Dee through me mentioning, Comp Saint Germain?
Speaker 1:Yes. That has to be where I came came across him. Yes. Absolutely. Because that Yeah.
Speaker 1:I Oh, my God. When was that? That was probably like a
Speaker 2:That it wasn't too long ago.
Speaker 1:Was like a barbecue or something. Yeah. That's that's where I came upon John D and I and just falling away trivia for later.
Speaker 2:There's a fun game, called Rippers. That's our role playing game.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And in Rippers, John D is sort of the original bad guy. And in in the in that story, he finds ways of extending his life to essentially be immortal. And then This is
Speaker 1:why I thought of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Through other people find he meets some other people study together and they find more supernatural stuff. But it eventually he eventually goes crazy and becomes Jack the Ripper. Unsolicited ad for For Ripper's. The game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:John D though.
Speaker 2:But referring specifically to John D.
Speaker 1:So imagining him going into obscurity, but actually you like, then displacing him from time or conquering That
Speaker 2:that's that's what if that's why he that what if his obscurity is caused By by him disappearing into time?
Speaker 1:That then and thus we have we have a being or a person that could then be responsible for disruptions in time that bring together our four fantastic people.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And he's he's trying like, if his if his villainous goal, much like because, yes, it was you talking about that game that made me look him up along with Saint Germain. Right? The Counts Yeah.
Speaker 2:Counts Germain. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which we can also talk about him in a second. But just the idea that John D, his obsession that led to his downfall is he thought not that not just that he could communicate with angels or that he could control fate, but that he could he could find the voice of God. Mhmm. Like he he was obsessed with contacting God to know his voice, to not, hey, ask answer my questions, but so that he could then use that. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If he knew the voice of God Mhmm. He could then use the voice of God on anyone and anything. Oh. At least that's that's my understanding of the the myth and legend that that is the John Dee, the once proud adviser to Queen Elizabeth that Sure. Disappeared into obscurity.
Speaker 1:So that's just just thinking of him now. Yeah. Nero's still a good one too, though. So, yeah, count Saint Germain is he's an alchemist. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Musician. John d.
Speaker 1:No. No. Count Saint Germain.
Speaker 2:Count Saint Germain is he's not a really known person. He he's someone who's popped up and very likely was different people Is he the one? Taking on the moniker.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's the that's what I thought. Because there was the the legend by Saint
Speaker 2:John d. I thought
Speaker 1:it I thought it was. Saint what I remember from Saint Germain is he was believed to be immortal because he existed for a century.
Speaker 2:Because he's been seen across several centuries.
Speaker 1:Yes. And but the but the real notion is that his moniker was picked up and and that he was a face that could be replicated, so people kept picking up Saint Germain.
Speaker 2:Likely.
Speaker 1:Like, which is the more likely idea as opposed to a somehow centuries old, never seems to age, man of nobility and knowledge and charm.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But in a fantastical setting, he could all he could just be that guy who somehow it's sort of like the immortal in Invincible. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's a lot like him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He
Speaker 2:Fun fact, the first place I ever learned about the comp Saint Germain Count Saint Germain was in Heavy Metal February.
Speaker 1:The movie? Yeah. That's awesome. But he's yeah. Germain, he he's been associated with with eternal life.
Speaker 1:Another someone who tried to manipulate fate for themselves. Sure. Because John Dee and him were contemporaries or had some sort of overlap?
Speaker 2:No. The the the thinking is that he was. That that John d was count Saint Germain.
Speaker 1:Oh, great. Cool.
Speaker 2:I believe. I need to go back and and re research all of that.
Speaker 1:Well, the the the other if if knowing that's them, right, remembering the the immortal man that was Mhmm. Count Saint Germain. Because he was immortal, it was believed he had infinite knowledge. Yes. So a a a man who knows all with unknowable motives Sure.
Speaker 1:Moving behind the scenes like a ghost. Right? It could it could just be Count Saint Germain and John Deere, the same guy as as Mhmm. Could be legend. And now we have our our time moving.
Speaker 1:Maybe is he displaced from time, or has he figured out how to displace some time at his and he's been moving wherever on the timeline he wants to go, and now our heroes have to to shut that down before he unravels reality or something?
Speaker 2:Maybe. So because Count Saint Germain is more of like a myth
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And the ask was for historical historical people
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:I want to go with people we definitively know were someone.
Speaker 1:So John D. Yeah. Okay. So John D is our is our doom.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what if so he's found a way to to jump through time. Mhmm. It's one of the magics he's discovered. But that alone has not gotten him closer to finding the voice of well, and then we can discuss exactly what that means.
Speaker 2:And maybe that's a part of what actually, maybe that's a part of his journey as well. But my thought is he he initially brings our heroes together under the hopes and belief that they would hear his plan, hear his his goals Mhmm. And agree and be like, yeah, let's do that. And then when he gets them together, they're like, no, that's an awful plan.
Speaker 1:You are a bad guy. Yeah. We must now stop you. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, what I like where you're going there. What purpose would he have to bring together for these four people? Are they if he's creating a think tank, then we're creating four super scientists. If we wanna adhere closer to the Fantastic Four themselves, you have one scientist. Well, two.
Speaker 1:Sue has been retroactively upgraded to being just at the And then a pilot and, like a hotshot pilot and and a muscle Well message.
Speaker 2:There's two people I can think of that he might recruit to his efforts. But before that so he's he's jumping through time. He can he can jump through time and he wants to find the voice of God. Mhmm. Or he want he wants to find the voice of God so that he can have the voice of God.
Speaker 2:Specifically, it wouldn't be just to control people because literally, I I believe the translation in the Bible, I shouldn't say literal, but in the Bible It's literature. It does say that's true. Literaturally, it does say God spoke reality into existence. Right? So that's what John D wants to do.
Speaker 1:He wants to be God.
Speaker 2:He wants to reform the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? And because he can jump through time, he could do it. Right? So he can jump through time and if he has the voice of God, he can make reality what he wants it to be. And he's inviting these people.
Speaker 2:He says, we can make reality what we want it to be. And they are gonna say, no. That that would why would you why would you shatter the world? Like like, no. Your hubris knows no bounds.
Speaker 2:We must stop you kind of thing. Sure. Sure. Sure. The the whole idea that you know best is is is folly.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So the first two people I can think of that John D would find use for in this endeavor might be Albert Einstein.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because Albert Einstein understands he he he, at the very least, intuits the fabric of space and time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:While John D has figured out how to jump through time, he doesn't necessarily know how to manipulate it. Mhmm. And and Einstein could could know that.
Speaker 1:Through through Einstein's hypothesis and
Speaker 2:Well theorizing. Basically, powers become reality manipulating. Okay. Right? Like
Speaker 1:So Einstein?
Speaker 2:And the other would be Joan of Arc.
Speaker 1:Oh. Okay. Funny enough, thought of Joan of Arc too. When Because fire. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Joan of Arc has heard
Speaker 1:the voice of God. Oh, okay. Okay. I I that's that's fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1:She literally Yeah. Spoke to God. There's certainly other historical figures, literary or otherwise, that spoke to God. But definitively, we know Joan of Arc existed. We know she could speak to God.
Speaker 1:Maybe oh, okay. What what that's not what about this? Instead of picking up, people to recruit. Right? Okay.
Speaker 1:May not necessarily, like, let's work to what if he's going to points in history to people who, one way or another, believe to, whether they believe it or others believe that they were touched by God somehow. That, oh, I'm gonna choose Joan of Arc because it is said that she through her words that she spoke to God. She heard the voice of God. Einstein could work in this. It's like, this man was so brilliant.
Speaker 1:He was touched by a higher power to be so smart. So he's picking historical figures possibly. I don't know. I'm I'm I'm brainstorming here.
Speaker 2:Okay. So so you're not wanting to to choose you're not saying let's choose people who like, that that's it. Like, we're gonna choose a bunch of saints.
Speaker 1:No. I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna pick saints. I'm saying, like, for example, the Red Baron. Red Baron or no.
Speaker 1:Actually, do you know the white the white devil? The white hold on a minute. Hold on minute. It's oh, god. What is it's a it's a it's the greatest sniper in history.
Speaker 1:The it's a Finnish oh my god. The white the white the white death. Yeah. The white do you know the white
Speaker 2:death? I've heard that
Speaker 1:story. Yeah. So the the white death, is a Finnish sniper who has recorded over 500 confirmed kills, died in 2002 at at the age of, like, 90, like, late nineties, had and those 500 kills during the winter war, not over like a lifetime, during one specific war
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Used a sniper rifle with no scope
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because he didn't wanna give himself away with a glimpse of of Sure. Light and survived being shot in the face. Like, this guy was a a man. Like and also it was in the interviews that exist of of the white death, just quiet, calm, nice, kind, little old Not this and you'd guess you'd have to have cool head about you to be out there sniping through snow and taking out Soviets. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, like, that's what I'm thinking is, like, historical figures who did such impossible feats that they're, like, likened to two superheroes in a sense.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Maybe? I don't know. I because you're you're suggesting creating a think tank of Einstein and It well, it doesn't have to be a think tank.
Speaker 2:Like, he could find people, like, for whatever reason, their abilities. Yes. I think I'd I'd end up leaning toward men or people of of thought Mhmm. Because they're going to because they're gonna be problem solvers, and John d has this problem. I need or he has literally a metaphysical problem that he is trying to solve.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't mean that others couldn't be. Like Joan of Arc was a reluctant woman of action. Mhmm. She is necessary to this because she's heard the voice of God.
Speaker 1:And she's a soldier. She she she knew how to hold her own in battle.
Speaker 2:That that that's Bill
Speaker 1:and Bill and Ted knew to to grab her.
Speaker 2:It's it's true. Yeah. That's just one one possibility. We we don't have to go that way. It could be something else.
Speaker 2:It it could be the these our heroes could fall together in some other way. Right. So for example, use to match Fantastic Four, it should be a cosmic event.
Speaker 1:Some some event occurred that Yeah.
Speaker 2:I I think for the most part, we, as in a culture, have latched on to the the notion that doctor Doom got his powers at the same time as the Fantastic Four, but originally, they did not.
Speaker 1:That's not the original case. Yeah. The original case was he he came back having learned magic. Yeah. He was just jealous.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it could be that John Dee doesn't bring these characters together and a thing happens that gives them fantastic powers. It could be the fallout from something John D does.
Speaker 1:Like, he he he does something that does creates a fracture and a rift that pops up in multiple places all across reality. And our
Speaker 2:Perhaps, Jairus discovers one of the words. Like, he discovers how to speak one of the words as God does.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it cracks reality in such a way that our characters fall through.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Like and then those fractures appear and then like, I was gonna like, Amelia Earhart disappeared. Like, John Dee disappeared. Amelia Earhart flew through.
Speaker 1:But I don't know how exciting Amelia Earhart is as a character. How dear. She
Speaker 2:has an airplane.
Speaker 1:She was an you know, first woman that traveled off of the Atlantic Grip. But if we're gonna take a pilot, I'd take the Red Baron.
Speaker 2:Tangent here. I once used her as a main character in a story world that was the world of of lost things.
Speaker 1:That's fun.
Speaker 2:And her her sidekick was a Bigfoot. And, yeah. Stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Her sidekick was a Bigfoot. That's funny. Now if we're gonna take a pilot, I'm gonna go Red Baron, man. Manfred von
Speaker 2:Why the Red Baron? Because he's like
Speaker 1:the greatest fighter pilot in history. He's a bad guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Wasn't he a bad guy? Thought he
Speaker 1:was a bad guy. Flew for the Germans. Yes. Yeah. But he's still Snoopy plays him.
Speaker 1:Snoopy plays the red bear.
Speaker 2:No. Snoopy Oh. Fights the red bear.
Speaker 1:I always thought he was he was the
Speaker 2:red baron. Right? On his because he's on his red doghouse.
Speaker 1:No. He he's on the red the red baron painted his plain red. Yeah. Snoopy is the red baron. Okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe he I thought
Speaker 2:I always because Snoopy always gets shot down. And I I always thought he was he was fighting Fighting the Red Baron. Red Baron.
Speaker 1:You're right. He was he was fighting the Red Baron. Manford Von Richtough Rich Richtoughen. Richtoughen. No.
Speaker 1:Not the Red Baron? Bad guy?
Speaker 2:There's no reason. I I well, no. The the reason would be technically the demand is one big bad guy. I was gonna recommend if you wanna get the Red Baron in there could be he John D could have said, I'm gonna be busy. I need some people Lieutenants.
Speaker 2:To cover me.
Speaker 1:Sure. That he could he could he could have his
Speaker 2:We can have Amelia Earhart versus
Speaker 1:the Red Baron. Is Amelia Earhart exciting enough of a historical figure to
Speaker 2:I I guess, what do you mean by exciting enough?
Speaker 1:I I don't know. Like, the the notion of pulling some people out of the shadows that people should know more about, people know who Emilio Ehrhard is. She's one of the most famous missing people in the history of humanity. Right? Sure.
Speaker 1:But saying someone like John Dee, who very few people know of, this would be an opportunity to to present this fabricated version of him. And even someone like the Red Baron's not a good choice because the Red Baron is the famous World War one fighter pilot. Hedy Lamarr. The Hollywood starlet Hedy Lamarr was also a brilliant scientist. And she she Tarantino used her inspiration to play the spy that Dan Krueger plays in Inglorious Bastards.
Speaker 1:So having having a a Sue Storm esque, like, she's the pretty the pretty lady. Oh, she's also a brilliant scientist. Like, if Okay. If someone gave me an opportunity to do a biopic, I have a list. And Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hedy Lamarr is one of those. I've actually literally written that for a producer. Like, what a fascinating life to know. And she died in 02/2000. She died just, in the past twenty years.
Speaker 1:So, like, Hayley Lamar created the a communication system that was used to jam torpedoes during World War two. So she was a brilliant engineer. Like Bluetooth and GPS technology and WiFi exists because of Hetty Lamar's inventions. Okay. And that's so cool.
Speaker 1:Like, she's a super scientist who is also a Hollywood actress. That's a cool, like, spy persona type character. Because she was she was so often dismissed because she was beautiful. And and and instead without knowing that she was this pioneer in science. And, yeah, so just as someone who's this intellectual behind this dazzling facade, she could be a cool, like Sure.
Speaker 1:The the leader of the team.
Speaker 2:I I you're you're wanting to pick, yeah, lesser known historical figures. That reminds me of a webcomic I used to read called Frederick the Great. Okay. A most lamentable comedy. Great title.
Speaker 2:It's about Frederick the Great who I know don't know much about him beyond this comic in which he's an an irresponsible character that he's a he's a Munchausen esque character who kind of stumbles through history Mhmm. Solving huge problems going up against major villains. And and it's mostly because his handler is Isaac Newton. Isaac Newton, like, uses the power I think was it think he had the power of calculus. He used the the mystical power of calculus to, like, do magic, basically.
Speaker 2:And he recruits Frederick the Great to to go on all these adventures. They eventually recruit Peter the Great, who was a Russian leader, and he's a big old barbarian, and Voltaire who who has like music based magic. He he plays the chords of of the universe.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Are you suggesting those characters
Speaker 2:Not necessarily. I'm merely basically, this episode, I think more than more than many, has just been me sort of, like, remembering a thing and
Speaker 1:then I remember this guy.
Speaker 2:Dropping it, like, five minutes about some piece of media
Speaker 1:You said
Speaker 2:that does this kind of thing.
Speaker 1:You said barbarian. So thinking about the thing, Leif Erikson, as as sort of the they they figure Interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I was thinking of Ben as the the brute, the muscle of the team, the the rock. Right? Mhmm. Oh, I had mentioned this when I was reading the demand. There's a fun way to look at the Fantastic Four, which I know you, Jim, you like this as well.
Speaker 1:They are the elements.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Love
Speaker 2:the fire, wind,
Speaker 1:and water. That that they each represent a piece of the elements. So thinking of Ben as earth, as the rock, as this hulk of a monster. Yeah. A bar you said barbarian that triggered oh, a Viking, Leif Erikson.
Speaker 1:We recently watched Predator Killer of Killers. Highly recommended. It's on Hulu. Watch it. And that has a Viking story in it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like, Leif Eriksen or I'm trying to think of other historical, like
Speaker 2:Big guys.
Speaker 1:Big guys. Or just, like, who are these, like, fighters, these barbarians?
Speaker 2:Well, another thing to consider, they don't have to start that way because the thing didn't start that way.
Speaker 1:Oh, alright. Someone who had a fighting spirit within them that became like, it's true their power is true to their personality. So someone like Geronimo. Geronimo escaped, like, 30 times every time he was captured. Sure.
Speaker 1:He always escaped into the mountains. They're like, well, he escaped, he's surely gonna be dead and he'd come rolling back in with an army. Like Geronimo wasn't like a big dude by all accounts. Yeah. He was kind of life, but like imagine that fighting spirit manifesting into Rockman.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. If we choose to like give these guys the corresponding powers that is.
Speaker 2:I was thinking we would invent new powers.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'm cool with that.
Speaker 2:But we could we could do the fantastic four. But I I think I think it's amazing that the four powers match up to the four elements and I'm I'm pretty sure that was not Stan Lee's original intent.
Speaker 1:It just happened to work out that way. Well, do you want to to grab heroes from history that correspond with those four natural, elements? Do we wanna look at the personalities of the four existing Fantastic Four and do try to do as much a one for one as possible? Like, how do you how do we we need
Speaker 2:I don't I don't know yet. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I'll just keep shouting out historical figures. I've t, you know, t t e Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia. Oh. Sure. He was a leader.
Speaker 1:He fought against the
Speaker 2:The other the reason I brought up the Frederick Frederick is a great thing, not only it's another story that kinda takes only characters from history and
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Tells these fantastical stories with them, but it also kinda pulls, like, how many of those names did you recognize?
Speaker 1:Half of them.
Speaker 2:Right. See? So so so grabs people from all over. Mhmm. Right?
Speaker 2:So if we want if we want it to relate to John Dee's plot Mhmm. People talking about God or or or have been touched by God in some way You're right. It could be John D. It could be John D or someone else saying they've been touched by by this or that
Speaker 1:Or by his
Speaker 2:their own way.
Speaker 1:Or by his interpretation, how he he says. Interpretation, how he he says
Speaker 2:it. And and to that end, William Blake
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Had some very interesting symbolism. He built he built some like like, all of his poetry kinda built on his own personal take on Christianity.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, the there in lies in something I wanna work around is is not making this I don't I in fact, even Well, that's the lens that I know. No. No.
Speaker 1:No. But but for for John Deed to even if he's even questioned, like, why aren't you talking to John the Baptist or or his mother Teresa? And he'd be like, none of those people talk to God. I know. I've I've deduced.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:All those saints that they've bestowed. There's not a single pope in history, even the first one, who even knew the guy. Like, if if he's so so much hubris about him that he literally, like, tears down the constructs of Christianity and, you know, Muhammad. Muhammad never talked to a guy. Like like Sure.
Speaker 1:Like, literally, like, very heretical heretic. He's Great heretical. Heretical. Yeah. Tearing down oh.
Speaker 1:I am the heretical. I'm gonna get you. Yeah. That's what I'm saying is that, like, the it'd be easy to go, oh, talk to everyone who talked to God. Great.
Speaker 1:Here's a checklist of all the people in history who talked to God. And he's like, nope. I I checked every one of them. None of them said. John did.
Speaker 1:John Mark did. Sure. And then people who were were touched by a higher power Mhmm. That you could call God, I guess, but it's been called that being has been called by many names, and I will find its voice.
Speaker 2:Well, I can think of so, like, right, then Einstein is is might be a little obvious. But also, I think more contemporarily, there the other names I have to suggest to kind of fill that sort of genius role Mhmm. I feel are more well known now too. Feynman, Richard Feynman, the the the the father essentially of quantum physics. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And Oppenheimer.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oppenheimer would be
Speaker 2:great because he says, I am I am become death, destroyer of worlds. And he came to regret it, meaning he'd be a great hero to be like, no, John. What you're doing is wrong.
Speaker 1:When when when you think back
Speaker 2:to The power of nuclear explosions.
Speaker 1:We we actually did destroyer of worlds. I believe it was season two of the show where we took Da Vinci, Oppenheimer, and I can't remember who the third was. Oh, no. But we had talked about Was
Speaker 2:it Tesla?
Speaker 1:Was it Tesla? Yeah. Like, three men in history who yeah. We've talked to Oppenheimer before, but even I'm imagining Killian Murphy, like, he looks like Reed Richards. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Here's your leader right here. Here's the here's the thoughtful and certainly not someone who's living in the shadows ever best picture winner, at this point. But, yeah, he he is
Speaker 2:Well, but previous previous to that movie, I, how many people knew the name Oppenheimer?
Speaker 1:Sure. Sure. So but, yeah, I think he's a he he is your Reed Richards archetype. Yeah. He's a tortured genius Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Who would have every reason to say this much power beyond any power I could have ever conceived should be controlled by no one. We must stop this man. Mhmm. And I will and I will I will displace myself from time and space and to see that happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great great yeah. If if we can John you know, Oppenheimer, there you go. Like, I'm happy with him being being a part of this team despite being probably the one of the most notable characters we've listed, Einstein and Joan of Arc and Emilia Earhart's, like, Oppenheimer. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Do do you like Hedy Lamarr as a as a surprise character in this?
Speaker 2:So I guess she she she's a very accomplished person. What will her power be? Right? That that's that's another thing to consider is we're giving these we're they're we're gonna make them the fantastic four. They're gonna get powers.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like, William Blake, he was a he was a poet. Mhmm. And we can give him a tiger star powers.
Speaker 1:Wait. To back
Speaker 2:up Because that's the only poem I remember.
Speaker 1:Tiger, tiger burning bright. The to back up to to Oppenheimer having some sort of pointed atomic energy powers.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. Cool. I'm aware. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what would Hetty Lemars be? Well, she dealing with sonar, she literally could have some sort of visibility.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say superhearing powers. No.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking like the invisible woman being able to be unseen. Like, it's that she she has some sort of she spy, covert, invisible woman type powers.
Speaker 2:Well, then okay. So if we're going to correlate them to the fantastic four
Speaker 1:It's just working out that way. This guy.
Speaker 2:Sure. No. And but but if we are, she correlates to invisible woman. So she has invisibility powers, and we could probably even flesh them out the way Sue Storm can make shields and bubbles and stuff Mhmm. As well.
Speaker 2:That means Oppenheimer, his power set isn't Richard's, it's Human Torch.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Sure. Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that that's fine. And Joan of Arc, if we stick with her, is the thing.
Speaker 1:Because she's this
Speaker 2:She doesn't become a monster, but she she is Force. She's a force. Yeah. Right? So so she has holy armor.
Speaker 1:And I'm not I'm not averse to that. If we just take a moment here to acknowledge that currently, as of recording, the greatest Fantastic Four movie, as we've said before, for those who've listened, is The Incredibles. And The Incredibles power set is The Thing is the leader.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And one would argue miss is fan The Lasting Girl is the leader. Yeah. But you got The Thing, Mister Fantastic. Instead of Johnny, you have Dash with super speed, and the Invisible Woman's powers are violets. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So, it sort of removed moved everyone around.
Speaker 2:It did.
Speaker 1:Having Joan of Arc be the the tank is kinda cool. Yeah. That she's maybe her armor's, like, fused to her so that she's just, like, perpetually in some sort of armor, and she's got her sword and I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe. Yeah. For whatever reason, I don't see her being the well, right, to that end, invisible or Invisibles Incredibles didn't scar any of their characters the way That's true. The thing did. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If if I were to do anyone, actually, Oppenheim I think Oppenheimer would have, like, almost looks like he's it would look like he's burned. Like, imagine, like, red burning cracks like he's burning on the inside.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Like, maybe and even, like, being as though, like, he's it's pushed away from him. Like, that is there's
Speaker 2:Like like like he like, he's perpetually in in the blast? Blast?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be a cool comic design for sure to have that look of someone.
Speaker 2:We're he we're kinda designing him like a villain.
Speaker 1:Like like he would look like yeah. Yeah. There is a Mongol noblewoman. It was Kublai Khan's niece. She is she was a she was a warrior.
Speaker 1:She actually went to battle. She was the greatest wrestler in history. She refused to be married.
Speaker 2:Oh, I have heard that
Speaker 1:story. Could defeat her.
Speaker 2:Mongol it was Mongol?
Speaker 1:It was Yeah. It was Kub Kublai Khan's niece.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:She ref she she was a commander, and she refused. She famously would not get married until a suitor could defeat her. No one had ever defeated her, and she won thousands of horses Mhmm. From dowries because they kept coming. They're like, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So she's very, yeah, a combat a combat that's that's if if we I'm just thinking of I'm trying to think of other, like, fun historical a little tangent here. I've been asked to write a lot of biopics, and and sometimes I'm asked to write almost in this fashion of, like, pick a cool we want this movie's big right now. Find something that's a close approximation.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And then I'll just go on a Google rabbit hole trying to find fun historical things. So while I'm not remembering her name, she's a Mongol princess who kicked the shit out of anyone who was put in front of her
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And was a badass. Mhmm. Yeah. She a she was a warrior princess. So another I had mentioned Geronimo as a character.
Speaker 1:Okay. Who do we have right now? Who do who do we, like, truly sign off here for?
Speaker 2:Are are any of the do you like do you like this do you like this plot? John John d is trying to capture the voice of God so that he can manipulate reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He wants to he wants to rally for himself.
Speaker 2:Is the event that you do you like the the the story that the the cosmic event is he finds one of the One word. One of the words of creation and he utters it and that, like, jiggles reality Yep. That causes the causes the the cracks Yes. That bring our characters together slash empower them.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna I I yes. I do like that. And I'm gonna offer up this to to kind of put our don't know if Oppenheimer's the right way to go. But having him having John D come to Oppenheimer and have, like, a close developed friendship with him too, just even just a conversation over a train ride of, like, when you when you did it, when you were standing there and you saw it, like, what I mean, just picking his brain. I know you said, yeah, I didn't become deaf, but did you what did you experience?
Speaker 1:Like, John d wants to hear what Oppenheimer experienced, like, truly delving deep into his psyche, and Oppenheimer is the one who has the singular word in him that he gets out so that when the event occurs that fractures reality, it's right in front of Oppenheimer. So then he becomes the de facto leader because he witnessed what this evil was. That I'm throwing that out as an option. Sure. And that's also, like, when the rift happens, that's why his his look of him is this blast in his face kind of perpetually happening.
Speaker 1:Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. What do think of that?
Speaker 2:It I'm I'm I'm roll it Mull it over. Mull it over.
Speaker 1:My my only concern with choosing Oppenheimer as a character, let alone the team leader, is the Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter Sure. Appearance of what we're doing here. It's like, sure. Oh, you're just taking the most popular guy and doing a fun little burpeder.
Speaker 2:You didn't know who he was before 2020.
Speaker 1:So I'm just I'm acknowledging that that's a possibility, but for for whatever that's worth, I don't care. Because I think John as an as a character is that's a he's got a cool that there's cool stuff to be had here.
Speaker 2:I'd I'd though, what I all I would want to really change with what you said instead of a conversation, instead of that, John d because he can jump through time, John d is there. John d is there when he utters it. Mhmm. So Oppenheimer does not realize a, the power on his tongue and b, that there is someone there to take it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Whatever is whispered in silence. Like, our audience wouldn't even get to hear it, but John would hear it. Sorry.
Speaker 1:John d would
Speaker 2:hear I think I I don't remember the the exact point at which he said it. I don't remember if he said it I don't think he said it as the bomb was No. No. Going off. I think he said it as response, or he might have even said it once he knew it was possible, but before the detonation.
Speaker 2:I I don't know. I don't remember for sure. Technically, we could fictionalize
Speaker 1:It it was it was history says that after the Trinity test, after witnessing the first detonation and he was recalling it, he recalled that, like, on the spot. Mhmm. Like, he did say it when it happened.
Speaker 2:Okay. Even better. Then we you have him seeing the explosion happen. As it's happening, he is saying these words. And John d is not watching the explosion.
Speaker 2:He's watching Oppenheimer. And we see we you you would even like would look cool, but I you you would sort of see this, like, mystical energy, almost like this white light. Like everything would slow down. It'd go into like slow motion and you'd see not a glint, but almost like the shape of the the the word itself. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Some like slipping off of his tongue and out of his mouth. And as it's beginning to dissipate into reality, John D snatches it.
Speaker 1:Like, literally pulls it out of
Speaker 2:the air.
Speaker 1:And then and then does Oppenheimer suddenly see that?
Speaker 2:I'm I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Okay. Also, I I keep saying John Oppenheimer. I'm I'm I'm conflating because that's the name of doctor Manhattan. Uh-huh. It's j Robert Oppenheimer, and the j stands for Julius.
Speaker 1:I just it's just dawned on me now because I kept saying John John. I'm like, no. John d Robert Oppenheimer.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Sorry. But, yeah, snatches the word from him. The minute that he grabs the word, is that when the fracture happens?
Speaker 2:Maybe. I I would think the, it could. I'm thinking the the fracture would happen when that's why if you want it to happen at the moment of the blast Mhmm. I would think John d would need to be the one to utter the word to actually fracture reality.
Speaker 1:Sure. Sure. Sure.
Speaker 2:But he snatches the needs to happen, like, all in sort of the same moment Mhmm. If you will. Or we he could take the word and he jumps back out of time
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And this is how he gets the word. None of our historical figures yet know that their situation. Mhmm. And I guess maybe it could get literal and this is gonna start resembling I think our fantastic four episodes. So you can, veer me off of this.
Speaker 2:What if the building up to this, this whole first act, we meet John d. He's jumped out of time. We kinda learn his plan. He has jumped through reality to find different things. And there's this bright light.
Speaker 2:There's this bright point further further up the timeline. He goes to it and he finds that's, Oppenheimer. He takes the word, goes back out of time, has it, looks at the timeline, however we manifest that. Mhmm. And he and he ingests the word or whatever or absorbs it in some magical way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then says the word. Mhmm. And we do a montage across reality that we've seen. It reality breaks. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so all of all these characters at their point at their point in history, we can choose their moment. Mhmm. Oppenheimer's moment can be that same moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They that's when reality breaks and they slip through and they literally are in this out of time space.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yep.
Speaker 2:It doesn't this I'm buying us time in the narrative in our podcast to decide what it's gonna be. It can be more than our four.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All of these people fall through. Not all of them either manifest a power or or manifest the right power, but we can then choose the four that kind of rise up to defy and defeat John d.
Speaker 1:I I I'm gonna evoke this. It's a strange thing to evoke. It's like in the Lego movie Oh. When they gather all the heroic Legos and Emmett's brought in and Yeah. At the county.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, who's gonna do this? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Batman?
Speaker 2:Green Lantern.
Speaker 1:Green Lantern. Emmett. Was it Green Lantern?
Speaker 2:Or yeah. Yeah. Superman, Wonder Woman. But yeah.
Speaker 1:No. They pick Emmett. Yeah. And what but yeah. So some sort of outside of reality arena of and through the powers of this magic, everyone understands each other.
Speaker 1:Like, there's a universal communication happening where everyone speaks the same language and and a this quorum is held to then select the Oh. Go ahead. Oh. Uh-oh. Is this good?
Speaker 2:It's because it is literally a a it wouldn't be a conference room or so I don't I don't imagine a table. I'm imagining like a not the Colosseum, like like an amphitheater.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2:At the top of the Tower Of Babel. Oh, okay. And so the Tower Of Babel is outside time. Mhmm. And John John so John D has found the Tower Of Babel.
Speaker 1:Freaking building used to reach God.
Speaker 2:Reach
Speaker 1:hell yeah. Yeah. That's great.
Speaker 2:And an amphitheater where you where where it's about talking. And everybody So that's why
Speaker 1:speak to each other. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then and then as our I don't mind this that we have a a whole selection of of historical figures, and we barely I don't know. Maybe we said a dozen at this point, so we barely even scratched the surface of possibilities here. So it's probably a good time for us take a break. But then selecting our four heroes to be sent off to chase him through time? Is that
Speaker 2:Yes. Our call? Possibly. If if it's gonna be a chase through time.
Speaker 1:Or I well, I think it
Speaker 2:Well, so the other thing that's occurring to me is is my initial notion was all of these characters kinda get pulled out of time
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Pulled out of their their places. And it's this isn't a secret history, and they're all gonna go back to where they were. Mhmm. These people have been pulled out of time, and we're going to put them in the contemporary world.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So here at the edge of time Mhmm. Which is the right now, John D or or our our heroes confront John D and defeat him. And now these four contempt four four historical figures now live contemporarily with these powers protecting reality from this point. That might not be the way to go.
Speaker 1:No. Or but it also might be the way to go. Because are you
Speaker 2:Also, means they lose their time travel ability. I mean don't know if we'd want to give them like, they do we want to make them the guardians of time? Is that
Speaker 1:I there there might be something in a the the Tower Of Babel remaining the pocket place they can return to sort of becoming this pseudo Mount Olympus Mhmm. Of historical figures. But but by doing this, the question is when they're ripped out of their reality, does reality unfold the way it always has? Because you said we're not gonna reinsert them where they left at the end. We well We could.
Speaker 2:That was my initial notion. If you want to do that, we can.
Speaker 1:Well, the the the reason I'm asking is if we remove them from the equation and then time proceeds as is, is does it proceed are are the what's being pulled from them echoes of the existing they basically there's two of them now. One that remained in history and the one that was pulled from history.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. And that's a thing we need to answer. Mhmm. I got a couple ideas.
Speaker 1:Okay. Do you do you wanna mull those over for a minute here while we take a quick break? Or do just wanna keep going?
Speaker 2:I I could I could do either.
Speaker 1:We're take a quick Oh. No. No. No. Okay.
Speaker 1:We're gonna take a real quick break right here so we can just jump right back onto this. We'll be right back after these messages from six seven. Oh, and we're back so fast. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:You had a thought going.
Speaker 2:It's it's right about what happens to the timeline when they're when they drop out.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The whole John d's whole plan. Oh, by the way, comp Saint Germain, was not John d. He was Nicholas Flamel. Oh. That's what we had initially looked up.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Because I there there are still details I don't fully remember and need to relook up about all of these characters, Neville's Flamel, John D, and and comp Saint Germain and stuff. Anyway, back to this. So John D's whole goal is to unmake reality anyway to remake it in the image he wants Yeah. To make it in.
Speaker 2:So my my first notion is no, they're not ghost versions of themselves and reality continues as is. The reality starts falling apart because all of these people have have been pulled from where they they are to are supposed to be from. Mhmm. Yep. And we we can kinda hand wave it because the way time actually works is if you pull Joan of Arc out of the timeline before you pull Einstein out Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I the world might be so different than Einstein's world doesn't even look the way it does. It's a movie, so we don't have to do that. We can only show the moments in which they've been pulled out as and show how the world starts fraying at at that point.
Speaker 1:They're like anchor beams to use the Sort of.
Speaker 2:The ensue term in. Like Joan of Arc's pulled from a a key battle, and she's gone. And so now, oh, no. The army's failing because Joan's gone. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What does this mean for things? Cut to nineteen thirties with or twenties, actually, I think was ice when Einstein was was really doing his his biggest stuff. Mhmm. He has has disappeared, and I don't know how you necessarily show his his disappearance affecting things very immediately in his vicinity.
Speaker 1:I I I I know it's there's questions within time travel, and we need to adhere to our own rules. We have this hubris driven monster.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Like John d, who could literally hand wave some of these effects away if we if, like you Napoleon Joan of Arc didn't do anything because time is not linear. That's just how you see it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It did not affect the timeline. That's not how this works. The only thing that's gonna affect the timeline is me. Something like that where it's like, no. History is still unfolded as it is.
Speaker 1:Because if you wanna use oh, boy. Trying to figure out which version of time travel, it's string theory of like Sure.
Speaker 2:No. Which would be the reason to use Feynman because Feynman understand it is string theory.
Speaker 1:To to okay. Joan of Arc wasn't pulled out
Speaker 2:No. But we said Oppenheimer.
Speaker 1:Here. She was pulled out in the future of her. She like, that this is where time travel gets complicated when you really try to break down its bootstrap theory and all that yada yada yada. If you pull her out here, then she doesn't exist. If she doesn't exist, the time traveler who pulled her out would never do it.
Speaker 1:Therefore, she does exist, and therefore, the time traveler who can pull her out does exist, so on and so forth. You create a
Speaker 2:paradox. Sort of. That's
Speaker 1:I'm suggesting that we we acknowledge the paradoxal nature of this and time isn't affected by these people being removed from the timeline.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's not dire enough.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's fine. I I I yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's too clean. No. No. Grant, again, it depends on on how you want to we where you want this to end up. Do you want these to be a a fantastic four like our fantastic four that like that are now like, ah, this thing happened and we solved it and now we we continue to be this group in the world that works together.
Speaker 2:And do you want them to be that in the same space time? Or do you want them to be like, that was a fantastical adventure that no one will know about?
Speaker 1:Have to go back to where we were. Yeah. And and the I'm of two minds. I I think that the if the situation is he pulls these people from time, time is now fracturing. He's gonna either he's gonna remake reality with the voice of god or he's gonna obliterate the timeline as it is, and we treat it as a fade effect like back to the future or Loki where the ripples start to occur and it takes time within time for it to happen.
Speaker 1:So now there's a ticking clock that if Oppenheimer Sure. Is our is our leader of this team Mhmm. He's the one that's saying, we don't have time to argue about this. We need to stop him in the next x amount of minutes or hours or days or weeks or none of this matters. We have to fix all this and seal these cracks and go back to where we were and then proceed from there.
Speaker 1:The the the disadvantage of that is that means erasing their memories.
Speaker 2:I have a solution.
Speaker 1:Okay. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:So so we we have other problems is we've only come up with really the the inciting incident.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:She's over here. Cat cat meowens over here. Don't don't worry about her. My solution for this so John d just got the fur got one of the words. He's going to want more of the words.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's going to basically have to be our second act second and third act is is the rest of that. In the meantime, yes, the timeline is falling apart because even from their external perspective, if it's like literally a thread they can see, they see it fraying. Right. The fix in in the end, the fix is they stop John d.
Speaker 2:They get enough of the words to put things right. And but the way they put things right is they can't put themselves back in and just have secret knowledge of the universe.
Speaker 1:Right. And I don't want that. I don't want that.
Speaker 2:But they also can't not be in the timeline because it clearly will fray without. And so they essentially do in the reverse of what you initially said, that ghost versions of themselves don't manifest. Instead, the way they use the the the words of creation is they create the the the cell their selves that should have been in their times doing the things they should have done. And they themselves
Speaker 1:Remain.
Speaker 2:Will need to reenter the timeline because they cannot exist out of time because I think what we'll do the outside of time, a thought occurred to me, the Tower Of Babel isn't just here. John like, the the reason it crumbled is because John D went and stole it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Cold it out of reality. Mhmm. And he like, so this is his fortress of solitude. Right? This is his this is his fortress of I can't be touched because I'm outside of time.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Only these people fell into it, and they need to they they need to stop anyone from coming here again. So they need to destroy this
Speaker 1:The means for anyone
Speaker 2:else space.
Speaker 1:The means for anyone else to ever do this again.
Speaker 2:This pocket dimension, essentially. Yes.
Speaker 1:And then our four heroes.
Speaker 2:They reenter the timeline together.
Speaker 1:In 02/2025? Yes. Okay. And then they are now here to protect us from the threats of reality.
Speaker 2:That sounds that's super comic book y. I don't know if that would be cool to see or if it would be really hokey.
Speaker 1:It's cool. It wait. Hold on a second. Did the demand specify that it had to be a movie? Because
Speaker 2:That's So if it's a comic, we can be as cheesy as we want.
Speaker 1:Our this is not good. Studio demands
Speaker 2:Bur bur burring?
Speaker 1:No. I think it's great. I love it.
Speaker 2:Drummer,
Speaker 1:give us some some some thinking music. So
Speaker 2:what this I I we really should just worry about one story at a time. But what this does also do what this also does is it prevents. No. Not necessarily. Because if these four heroes are the ones who do it and the way they do it isn't nest they they don't necessarily have the faculties to do it seamlessly.
Speaker 2:Everyone who fell out of time will be duplicated and put into the now.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So it's Oh. So we have a whole
Speaker 2:It's sort the legion of heroes. Yeah. So Oh my god. We can have a sequel
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where Nero has fire powers and he's all like, yes. This A whole new world to burn. And so
Speaker 1:Film. This is a movie. Yeah. But hey, it could be a great animated movie.
Speaker 2:It's also fine. Yeah. Yeah. And so so that way, we now have a a gallery of characters Mhmm. We could call upon for sequels and continuing as a franchise.
Speaker 2:That's how that's how I would solve that.
Speaker 1:The demands and but we still remain the four these four heroes. There's four heroes
Speaker 2:They are the four heroes that step up to stop John d.
Speaker 1:And as it is now, we have Oppenheimer. And well Well,
Speaker 2:I I we have we have other, like it sounds like Oppenheimer, Joan of Arc.
Speaker 1:I like yep. I like Joan. With so with Emile Earhart, the white death, William Blake, Einstein. I I say if we have Oppenheimer, we don't have Einstein. Einstein's had enough time in the sun.
Speaker 1:We don't
Speaker 2:need Okay.
Speaker 1:We don't need Einstein. We got Oppenheimer. Okay. Do you wanna fight for Einstein? No.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Einstein would be a fun character to give stretch powers to because he can understand space and time so he can stretch it.
Speaker 1:Stretch
Speaker 2:it. Or from our perspective, he is stretching it.
Speaker 1:From your perspective, I am stretching, but what I'm actually doing is He
Speaker 2:has that he has that crazy hair,
Speaker 1:and he he Tongue out.
Speaker 2:Crazy tongue
Speaker 1:sticking suit every day. Yeah. Smart man. Having this gallery of people standing together, like, in an theater.
Speaker 2:So now what's happened is these are not people that have been chosen by John Dee. Mhmm. They are just people. People of historical significance, which is why they were near the cracks when they fell through.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We we can choose we can choose anyone we want.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, we've always been able to everyone we want.
Speaker 2:Well, but even more so now.
Speaker 1:Okay. Good. Having
Speaker 2:I'm I'm the thing what you had said, I'm trying to find people who aren't the immediate go tos Right. Right. For things. So now I'm trying to think of, like, the second or third
Speaker 1:Like Unsigned. History nerd Right.
Speaker 2:Right. Characters to jump to.
Speaker 1:I wish I could remember her name. The freaking should just Google it. Yeah. Now now now we're in a weird weird position of sitting here thinking and that
Speaker 2:like Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like Blackbeard. Blackbeard is a horrible pirate monster man, but he got stuff done. So so is this someone who like, I don't like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen has bad people on it, and they're basically a suicide squad of literary characters of the nineteenth century.
Speaker 2:Correct. Because it's a suicide squad. It's literally put it's literally put together by people using expendable characters. Like, you are a villain. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So if you die doing this, we, the British government Yeah. Don't care.
Speaker 1:Right. But if you serve your country With
Speaker 2:the of well, even they don't they don't care about Mina Harker either. Mina Harker was, like, the one exception Yeah. Because they they went to her first to assemble the group.
Speaker 1:At least in the film. No. That's in the comic. No. In the comic.
Speaker 2:The comic. Yeah. In the film, they gave her vampire powers, which technically lends to that notion more. In the comic, at least for that first arc, what I what I've read, I didn't read the black dossier, so I don't know if they go into it. She did not have vampire powers.
Speaker 2:She was just a super kick ass human who had an encounter with the supernatural that that that led to her being kick ass and why she was the one to lead this team. And, right, like
Speaker 1:We're we're off to changing it. Don't wanna talk about it like a big string, gentlemen. I'm sorry I brought it up. I the to think of some historical figures that could be superheroes, Harriet Tubman was, you know, led the underground railroad, and she freed all like, there there's someone of historical significance who was a superhero of her own right.
Speaker 2:Sure. Right? Her power is she also she she carried a gun. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I still stand by the White Death being a cool character because she was this, like, incredible sniper.
Speaker 2:Do you wanna you wanna make him one of the Fantastic Four?
Speaker 1:Possibly. I I'm trying to think of other there's a pirate queen. She's a she's a Celtic pirate queen.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. She We use her for the basis of Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
Speaker 1:What was her name? Because she, like, went on a freaking warpath and destroyed, like, an entire British armada because they assaulted her daughters, which, you know, good for her. She was like, oh. Oh, you you you doing a thing? Oh.
Speaker 1:Okay. Let's go kick some ace.
Speaker 2:To that end, what was oh, crap. I can't remember her name. There was a there was a woman I don't I don't even know how to how to Google search for this.
Speaker 1:Grace O'Malley was the pirate queen I was thinking of. She ruled the Western Irish Sea, she commanded a fleet from a very young age. And she she was a smuggler, and she would board British ships during storms. She gave birth at sea once, and she was just this this badass. She actually negotiated with queen Elizabeth.
Speaker 1:Woah. Which means she would have connections to John Dee because she she existed the exact same time. Negotiated with face to face with queen Elizabeth the first without ever surrendering anything. They negotiated a ceasefire. And she yeah.
Speaker 1:She was just, you know, a badass pirate woman.
Speaker 2:This is another badass pirate woman.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Jean Declissant became one of the most feared people in France as she took a scorched earth approach to avenging the execution of her husband. Hell, yeah. And she she was she was also a pirate.
Speaker 1:Having a a swashbuckling pirate queen just just kicking ass. Have like well, we have we have Joan as our tank. Right?
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And we have John with some sort of atomic powers. Mhmm. Julius. Julius. Goddamn it.
Speaker 1:Just call him Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer. I'm calling him Oppenheimer. White death, the sniper. William Blake.
Speaker 1:You had mentioned William Blake because he was a
Speaker 2:Because the looking up that Frederick, the great comic Oh, that makes sense. Emily Dickinson and and a couple other authors reminded me that we could because that's the other thing. We don't just have to find people who are really cool in and of themselves. We're gonna give them powers. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Fantastical powers. Four of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, okay. So let's go back to John d. If he's someone who has magic and super science on his side, need a group of people who can stop that. Yep.
Speaker 1:That he is he is doctor doom. He can he can fire off a magic missile and he can fire a missile.
Speaker 2:Oppenheimer, the nuclear man.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yep.
Speaker 2:Joan of Arc, the holy knight. Who else did we have? Oh, you you you Hattie. Hattie, what's
Speaker 1:her name? Hattie Lamar.
Speaker 2:The Hattie. The invisible spy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hattie she's the sneak she's the Batman. Sure. She's the Batman. Well, no.
Speaker 1:She's the invisible woman. She she she does I'm just saying she does all, like, the covert stuff because she's not she's not a in your face character. She's a work in the shadows.
Speaker 2:And that just leaves, old Stretch, who's who has stretchy powers.
Speaker 1:Oh, he said Einstein because he could stretch and whatnot, but, perhaps there's who, I just thought of someone to, Hemingway just being like this, I'm ready for a fight. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Having having okay.
Speaker 1:So now, John Dee is, you know, fighting the and we have, Oppenheimer Mhmm. And Joan face to face with him. And Hetty is basically super science and trying to stop whatever mechanisms he have.
Speaker 2:So you're sleuthing.
Speaker 1:Super sleuthing. Yeah. And we need we need one more someone stretchy. Like, what's well, maybe someone
Speaker 2:Who was a great tactician?
Speaker 1:I'm you were onto something with poets. What about someone do you ever read Planetary, the comic? Yeah. The drummer uses percussion to detect things throughout reality. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how
Speaker 2:about
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:you basically to to read and manipulate quantum physics.
Speaker 1:So what about a poet or a musician that that is able to stretch the words? I'm I'm being very, like, literal in what he can do is he literally he's someone who's whose voice and the ability to stretch the meaning of things. Doctor Seuss. Right? Like, not doctor Seuss, but someone who can who's so good with words that they they they can that's their magic or whatever.
Speaker 1:Their power is that they
Speaker 2:I mean, again, we want to find we were wanting to find, not, not the top of their field, but, Beethoven.
Speaker 1:He was deaf. Right?
Speaker 2:I don't remember anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Beethoven was Yeah. He was deaf.
Speaker 2:Then actually, I I I think I was thinking of reputation wise, I was thinking of Mozart. Mhmm. The and the reason for that is because what Mozart popularized was the notion of silences.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So, basically, I'm I'm I'm stretching that Oh. Into the idea of he uses music to stretch reality.
Speaker 1:It but using silence as well as a power, if a character is you igniting half his spells are all vocal because he's been searching for the word of God, like the voice of God, words are so powerful to him. So to literally silence him into bubbles.
Speaker 2:So Mozart can silence God?
Speaker 1:No. He can silence John Dee. I don't know if you heard someone butcher Mozart. It feels like God is dead. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But someone who creates bubbles of silence. Sure. I know that's, you know, not exactly stretching powers. I'm having a a a character who can negate one of the power sets of Mhmm. Of John Dean.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's how we should look at it is if if Oppenheimer face to face with him is using his atomic power and trying to speak to this man and get through to him Mhmm. Like, you are destroying all of reality. I don't care. Having Joan who's like, no no time for talk me swing sword, and having Hetty be working with the science, a fourth character to negate powers would be some sort of magic user, someone who can
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Who can fight the magic of John Dee and having a musician or poet who can manipulate those sounds. I don't know. Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is is Mozart fit that category? We know a lot about Mozart. So is there Salliere poor poor Salliere? Or was Salliere a bad guy? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Depends on depends on the telling.
Speaker 1:What we got.
Speaker 2:Or me we well, I guess, Bill and Ted did use Beethoven.
Speaker 1:Oh, sure. Yeah. I got it. And we already have Jonah Archer Jonah Varkin here. Don't Yeah.
Speaker 1:We cannot use any other characters that Bill and Ted all
Speaker 2:the same ones.
Speaker 1:We cannot use any other character
Speaker 2:Party on,
Speaker 1:dude. Having Homer be someone who, like Yeah. Like, we don't even know what Homer's music sounded like. He could have been right or, like, Ringo. Like, that's the musician.
Speaker 1:He's like, though never respects me. Though peace and love, come on. Scut it up, John Dee. I'm not even the greatest drummer in this group.
Speaker 2:Oh, crap. What what was his name? Who was oh, my God. The the the drummer who was who was so fast, the machines couldn't keep
Speaker 1:up. Keith Moon. Oh, from the who?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Keith Keith Moon is our fourth wild card character who's just like, Adam, the guy who inspired animal from the Muppets. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of fun to kinda think that, like, Keith Moon, like, of all people is this fourth wild card character who's just this barefoot maniac. And you know what?
Speaker 1:I don't mind choosing a drummer because I did
Speaker 2:Well, that's what that's what you're referencing. That's that's why and then you said Ringo. I'm like, okay. Well, he really wants a drummer. No.
Speaker 1:I didn't. That was pure chance. That was pure chance. Although, Keith Moon being, like and then, you know, died young Yeah. From from drugs and having him plucked from reality to be a a superhero time and space maniac.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's kinda fun. Oppenheimer, Joan of Arc.
Speaker 2:I think that's Lamar. The other problem is.
Speaker 1:Keith Moon.
Speaker 2:Actually, that that what you just did is kind of kind of important. Before we list it together, should probably be somewhat identifiable together to and I feel like Hetty, I don't you explained who Hetty Lamar is, but I still kinda don't know who she is. But the whole I the but the whole point of this would be to educate people.
Speaker 1:Sure. Sure.
Speaker 2:And to that end, maybe, you know, three quarters into this episode, Oppenheimer and Joan of Arc are the wrong choices.
Speaker 1:Right. Right. My my I I had posited that a while ago.
Speaker 2:You did. But You know,
Speaker 1:I'm trying to trying to get some traction here in building this historical Fantastic Four. Honestly, what what and I'm not trying to say we've we're failing here. We didn't have enough restrictions. The demands were like, just pick four historical figures. Oh.
Speaker 1:Tens of thousands of years of of planet Earth and boy, did I just pick a wrong number.
Speaker 2:You need to think about how much history we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So that's really what I was babbling out is that, like, we the whole of human history and we can pick any historical figures, that's a big pool to draw for It is. Especially without preparing anything.
Speaker 2:But our our studio believes in us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, studio, for believing us. Let's okay. I if I'm gonna go back to the White Death. I think that's such a cool character. Having another distant character, a character fighting from a distance while we have two characters fighting up front.
Speaker 1:And if Hetty stays in the mix and she's doing the super science to shut down machinery or what have you with her invisibility.
Speaker 2:What's the okay. What's their power?
Speaker 1:Well, he's a he's a really good sniper.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So guns.
Speaker 2:He he He can curve a bullet. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Ew. No. I hate that.
Speaker 2:There there there's nothing in reality he can't shoot?
Speaker 1:Nah. Nah. Let's let's gun guns don't get us anything good here. It's just a cool character from history.
Speaker 2:It
Speaker 1:is. Maybe we're around to something with a musician or a poet and having some sort of magic. Is there in fact, if we pick someone I honestly, if we pick freaking if we pick Keith Moon no. No. Hedy Lamarr passed away in February.
Speaker 1:I was saying that's, like, the most contemporary person we would pick.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Picking someone from further back, Confucius.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Some sort of, Japanese artists. Maybe there's something like, we're we're we're limited not just by our
Speaker 2:Yeah. By we're we're well, we're limited by our education, which is has been framed in a very western
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yeah. Way. So by not thinking of, say, like, who's the famous there's a famous swordsman, a Japanese Oh, crap.
Speaker 2:It's just
Speaker 1:I know it's like a he's Oh, my God, Jim. We're failing left and right now.
Speaker 2:The main character of Ninja Scrolls
Speaker 1:Miyamoto. Jesus. Mushashi. Oh, he's a Japanese swordsman. Was philosopher.
Speaker 1:Was an artist. He fought
Speaker 2:A different person.
Speaker 1:60 duels and won every single one of them. He used to beat people up with a boat orph. Like, that guy was such a skilled swordsman.
Speaker 2:Was that the one who, like, he started basically as a kid and he didn't have, like, a proper sword for his first duel?
Speaker 1:Yes. Yeah. And he used a wooden sword. He, he wrote a book, the six ring, seven ring?
Speaker 2:The the five rings.
Speaker 1:The five rings. Yeah. Yeah. Which is still used today. It's a philosophical text.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, you had asked earlier who's a good strategy, a good tactician. Miyamoto Mushashi was a was a a tactician. He was his strategy of his text in that book that I couldn't name correctly, five rings. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Five rings.
Speaker 2:Let let
Speaker 1:was still legend of the five rings. Studied to this day. And he was he was a ronin. He just trail he used he had a two sword technique. Maybe that's our our wordsmith who's also fighting alongside Joan as she's swinging her broadsword.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:Maybe. You you made me think of other Japanese swordsmans. Yagyu Jubei Mitsuyoshi. That's who I was thinking of, Jubei, the famous historical samurai who also became fictionalized and has has seen a lot of Mhmm. Like, copy knock off characters to reference him.
Speaker 2:He he's he's almost like a a Django. Oh. Many different Oh, yeah. Filmmakers and storytellers have used keeping using them all over the Django. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, what about how about that? Using someone like a swordsman? I I was the one you just referenced.
Speaker 2:Jubei? Jubei? I think I I like I like Musashi.
Speaker 1:Musashi being literally being known as a strategist is is could be helpful to our Fantastic Four here. The if we're looking let's look at the actual fantastic four. You got two brains and two two Hearts. Hearts, to say. Reed and are the brains of the operation, and Johnny and Ben are the heart of the operation.
Speaker 1:They're the muscle. Right? Yeah. Not to say that all four of them can't kick ass in their own right, but breaking them down to their parts. Ben and Johnny aren't leading the team.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Reed and Sue are. So having having Oppenheimer and Mushashi Mushashi working in conjunction or but Hetty's in there too as as a super scientist. So maybe Mushashi is the is a muscle type character. I don't know. I that may I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm I'm I'm lost in the weeds here.
Speaker 2:I I keep coming back to their their their fantastical characters. So what's the power gonna be?
Speaker 1:Right. Okay. So if Joan is using fire sword. Oh, no. She's she's our tank.
Speaker 2:She's yeah. She's a tank.
Speaker 1:She's indestructible. Hetty having her invisibility, John having his atomic power. Yeah. We we don't have a stretchy guy.
Speaker 2:Stretching would be very useful to a samurai.
Speaker 1:If he oh, so okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. Back up.
Speaker 1:Back up. It's not stretchy. It's water. We need to think of it as an element. Right?
Speaker 1:If reed reed is the water of of the fantastic four, if, Musashi moves like water, like, if he if there's like a flow within him that he's almost untouchable.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If he's a man who's won these impossible number of duels, he never lost a sword fight in his life, he could fight with literally any weapon in his hand because of the way he moved, he never was even touched. He moved like water. Mhmm. Now we have something that if he if he has some sort of water elemental ability to him. If he's not, like, shooting water or becoming water, just that he flows in such a way.
Speaker 1:Sure. Yeah. Like, someone would say that, oh, that's like wind. No. Our winds are invisible, girl.
Speaker 1:Alright. Let's let's let's commit right now. Let's say we have Oppenheimer, Joan of Arc Musashi. Musashi Musashi, and I'm the one who brought him up. I should be able to say his name correctly.
Speaker 1:I literally had to wrack my brain to find him, damn it, and Hetty, Lamar, who you know the least about. Yep. Listen, man.
Speaker 2:It's okay.
Speaker 1:She's an impressive lady.
Speaker 2:Okay? Yeah. I'm gonna have to watch this movie to learn about her.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. She I I I don't need to try to sell her to you again. That would be prostitution, and I'm not gonna do that. She's a very accomplished woman.
Speaker 1:She died.
Speaker 2:Well, you would be pimping I bet. So gonna get really technical about it.
Speaker 1:She's just I I I go back to the fact that she was easily dismissed because she was this beautiful Hollywood actress. No. No. What? She also invented radar?
Speaker 1:The technology we're some of the technology we're literally using right now is because of Hetty Lamar.
Speaker 2:It is it is very impressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And WiFi specifically. Yeah. Super science. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Go Hetty. Those are our four. They get pulled from time. Yep. Tower of Babel.
Speaker 1:Yep. Are they
Speaker 2:I mean, the characters we named to get pulled pulled from time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. But they're all background.
Speaker 1:And a 100 other characters we did name. Yes. You are screaming at us right now saying, this would be a great character for a historical Fantastic Four, but we can't hear you. We can't manipulate time and space.
Speaker 2:Because Mozart has deafened you to us.
Speaker 1:And John Dee
Speaker 2:is has has has has silenced. You are in the the the silenced beat. Silenced bubble.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm that wrong. Are in the Tower Of Babel. These are these the four that are selected to to
Speaker 2:chase No. They're not selected. They they step forward. The others cower in fear and confusion.
Speaker 1:There's too much arguing and what have you going on like a tower of babble would have. And do I think the notion of John Robert Oppenheimer being the one to go, like, we are on a ticking clock here, people. I we need to get moving right now. I'm leaving. Who's with me?
Speaker 1:Sure. And then these are the or does he just go off on his own and these are the three people follow on their own volition?
Speaker 2:Well, so while John D didn't pull them out of time on purpose Mhmm. Now that they're here, he could proposition. He'd be like, hey. Here's my plan. You can help me or you can get out of my way.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yeah. And maybe a few of them are like, you know, that sounds good. Okay. I know you wanna make the white death a good guy and maybe
Speaker 1:Make him big guy. Make him
Speaker 2:a big Yeah. This is this is my chance to erase all of Russia.
Speaker 1:Sure. I'm in. How about this? He, he pulls the word from Oppenheimer. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:This fracture occurs. All these people meet. John d cannot get beyond that word and also sees the repercussions of using it. So then he goes to the arena and says, behold, I am God. You're not God.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm trying to be God. You can either come with me or you're against me. I'm not putting you back into town. Like, I'm basically, the pitch you just gave.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And The your time is over. It crumbles it crumbles as we speak.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then so it's, you know, it's kinda like kinda like the never ending story. He's the nothing that's destroyed. And this arena is when the childlike empress is like, we need a hero and Atreus is one who rides up. We're just doing a never ending story.
Speaker 1:So they so Oppenheimer hits the road.
Speaker 2:And isn't that what history is?
Speaker 1:It's a never ending story. It's true. That book is horribly depressing. It's written by a German.
Speaker 2:I believe it.
Speaker 1:And then they chase him through time. So so it might be an opportunity for him to, if they are popping around the timeline trying to chase him, well, we should go back to what his motives are for moving through time. Mhmm. He's clearly looking for more words.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So so perhaps he's choosing if if if Oppenheimer was like, oh, I need to find others that were this critical to to, history, maybe others like Oppenheimer who who did who are responsible for something so destructive. Sure. So Napoleon and Hitler might come into play here. But, you know, they maybe not. Maybe maybe it's less no.
Speaker 1:I don't I still don't want Hitler to be involved in this. But maybe other historical figures who achieved greatness, but at what? What were the consequences of those greatness?
Speaker 2:It could be they don't have to be people. It occurs so this is this is more of like a myth fictional story.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Perhaps, I forget which which European town it was, but the story of the golem. Mhmm. There there's a there's a giant golem that protects a town. Maybe John Dee goes there to steal the word of creation from its forehead.
Speaker 1:There you go. Yeah. Something like that.
Speaker 2:And then he goes to the library of Alexandria, and he is the one who burns
Speaker 1:it down Burn down. Okay.
Speaker 2:For the word of knowledge.
Speaker 1:Okay. Okay. I like where you're going here.
Speaker 2:That Yeah. So other beats like that. I've run off.
Speaker 1:No. No. No. No. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay. Good. Yeah. You're onto something there that those are the so he's moving through history backwards and forwards, and our heroes are chasing him down. A bit like Mobius chasing Loki kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Right? Mhmm. Loki and Mobius chasing selfie. Crap.
Speaker 2:What? We don't have someone who can manipulate time to for them to chase him properly.
Speaker 1:Who's opening and shutting the the Yeah. Gateways. Let's get a fifth character in here then.
Speaker 2:It's the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 1:They got a they got a Herbie robot. They got Willy Lumpkin, the mailman.
Speaker 2:Fair enough. Yeah. That that is that is true.
Speaker 1:Who's who's who is the the master of all time. Right? Who which historical horse okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:Who is the person who invented the calendar? Gregoria. It it is Gregoria. It is me, Callender.
Speaker 1:Okay. Before we let's let's keep talking and maybe it'll come to us. Yeah. But having them chasing him through time allows them to have face off against things like the White Death, the Red Baron, if we get airborne, meeting some other historical figures along the way, Geronimo. Like, of the ones we've named, including some of the ones we haven't named that you are screaming at us right now, all in trying to chase him down and corner him into a final confrontation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Now knowing that we get, the setup, the call to action, the the initiating crossing the threshold, yada yada yada, we're in the finale now. Right? Like Yeah. We're we're we're blowing through.
Speaker 1:How where does it all come to? Sure. So, then that can also determine where how we get there. But what is this final battle? Is it is it at the okay, if all of time is crumbling around them
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's it's it's it is there is an actual end of time point. The trend line is is erasing itself in every direction, but you can see the light at the end of time. Like, the Langoliers are eating the universe kind of thing. The threshold of that could be where the final fight occurs. So, like, the final fight occurs at that time and all time?
Speaker 2:Sort of. Yeah. The way I'm envisioning it is it it comes back to that amphitheater. Mhmm. And whatever visualization of the universe around them that we've seen crumbling, that they've seen crumbling.
Speaker 2:Because so right. So John d puts out his his ultimatum, you're either with me or you're or you are against if you're not with me, stay out of my way kind of thing. Mhmm. So a few people go with him. The rest are left here Oh, shit.
Speaker 2:In the amphitheater to not be able to affect anything. And our character's like, no. We must stop this. And so they step forward to do something. Our fifth Deus Ex character
Speaker 1:Are watching the watcher. There would be a watcher type character. Like, you you like
Speaker 2:It's the audience. The characters keep looking out at the audience.
Speaker 1:What do we do?
Speaker 2:That's a good idea.
Speaker 1:What do we do? Can you tell me where the bad guy is? Yeah. Our fake anxiety guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Was it that's wait. Right. So who's not maybe who said I think therefore I am?
Speaker 1:I think therefore I am. I think therefore I am.
Speaker 2:That's not gonna help you figure out just repeating
Speaker 1:the It's Descartes Descartes. Renee Descartes said, think, therefore I am.
Speaker 2:Is it Descartes?
Speaker 1:Yes. It is. It is Descartes.
Speaker 2:No. No. Is is it Descartes is
Speaker 1:our character? Who says
Speaker 2:Who is able to send our characters after John Dean?
Speaker 1:Sure. I've picked another very western historical figure. We can't help ourselves.
Speaker 2:It's I I know what I know more western philosophy than I do eastern philosophy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Descartes could
Speaker 2:be that or Buddha?
Speaker 1:The Buddha is the man the know, to all time is time, and therefore, we are.
Speaker 2:Okay. You want you wanted to be Buddha?
Speaker 1:Maybe. There like, Ptolemy figured out the universe. Right? He figured out the at least the, like, astronomy in the solar system.
Speaker 2:Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:So therefore, marking the passage of years and times due to rotations. Right? Maybe there's an Egyptian that we're not thinking of that
Speaker 2:Just an Egyptian guy.
Speaker 1:Just just an Egyptian guy. Sure. Right. Because Einstein is also the one who developed theory.
Speaker 2:And that was my initial notion was was Einstein. But you said no.
Speaker 1:Well, now I'm coming back on Descartes not bad to, like, I think therefore I am is the one who who what what do we need him for?
Speaker 2:To pop them back
Speaker 1:To mootins.
Speaker 2:Into the timeline.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Maybe maybe there's a how about okay. How about, like, a collection of it's not just one, but Descartes and Einstein and Ptolemy, an Egyptian,
Speaker 2:Kronos End of the Buddha.
Speaker 1:And the Buddha. There's some sort of they're the a watcher collective.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:You know what? Actually, that's not bad. If it's a group who
Speaker 2:They have to concentrate?
Speaker 1:No. No. No. No.
Speaker 2:Oh, nom shibai. Oh, nom shibai. Oh, nom shibai.
Speaker 1:They are they are ready they are content with watching it happen. They they're there's a collective of of historical figures like Einstein, Ptolemy, some of it, and Egypt, that they're sit they are ready to witness it all happen for the the sheer audacity of it. They're like, wow. This is this is the perception of this is more than we could ever have hoped for. We're going to sit and witness this and then be like, well, you can't just sit there and watch.
Speaker 1:If you are perceiving this at a higher level of consciousness than we are, just at least point us in the direction we can step through rifts to catch this guy. So they they are they are there to open gateways, but they're not actively you know, is that is that contract that they're I'm just giving them a little bit of of motive here of like, yeah, we don't mind watching you go through these rifts. Go through that rift over there. But Albert's gonna sit here and get his Albert on doing the math on this.
Speaker 2:This just goes back to to very well known people. I was gonna suggest Plato
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Because of the allegory of the cave.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm like, characters like that, like, are sitting there and and bearing witness to it because what what could there be what more important thing could there be to witness than the end of all time in reality? They're almost zen about it.
Speaker 2:Actually, it would be interesting if they they are zen about it, and it's Plato who craftily guides their witnessing. Right? It was like, yes, we shall just witness the end of the universe.
Speaker 1:Universe. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But what if there what if there were heroes that that were to and they're like,
Speaker 1:mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2:What if we witnessed that and that's what takes our heroes and puts them
Speaker 1:Sure. Yeah. In the On it. And and could
Speaker 2:be that that could also be really cheesy too.
Speaker 1:We are pick this is so comic book y. I know. This is what okay. Kate, Sam, Kate Katie, Sam, we are pitching to you a comic book series that will then be adapted into a movie.
Speaker 2:So you just let
Speaker 1:us work this all out, and you will see we have a a a comic worth marketing that could then be adapted. How's that? So
Speaker 2:altogether, they have time manipulation power oh, okay. Sure.
Speaker 1:Works. Their their understanding of it is they bear witness to the end of reality.
Speaker 2:And we have and we have now in an stumbled into creating our own chorus.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Go Greeks. Yeah, baby. And and yeah. If they're they don't necessarily have, a return spot.
Speaker 1:These people basically become their ziggy to borrow Quantum Leap Sure. Reference here. Yeah. Where the failing at one location or just being on the trail of John d and needing that next jump point or what have you. There's there's probably a way to do this where maybe the Chorus, let's call them that now Yeah.
Speaker 1:Get them started. Like, here's a rift. Go through there. You're on your own after that. And then Oppenheimer and and Hetty, even Hetty herself, could be creating the device that cracks those gateways open.
Speaker 2:No. I know you're trying to give agency to our heroes. Sure. I I really like the idea that at each location, whether they succeed or fail, we keep cutting back to the chorus where they're discussing what they've witnessed. Like, oh Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Ultimately ultimately, right, entropy shall win out. They they they were defeated. John d has gotten the next word. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then that's where Plato's like, ah. But it is merely just an obstacle. Right? There there's no reason they they still they still live. They still fight.
Speaker 2:There's no reason they wouldn't follow him to the next. Mhmm. That that's true. And they get transported to wherever John John is next in
Speaker 1:the timeline. Wait.
Speaker 2:Do you see what I'm saying by by Plato's manipulating their perceptions?
Speaker 1:The yes. The chorus, they are they are straight up deus ex mache. They are the gods manipulating this. They're bearing witness to it. But what if?
Speaker 1:What if? So having someone like, I'm gonna remember her name. Hold on.
Speaker 2:You will. I believe you. We will we all, the audience and I will sit in silence
Speaker 1:And as you do so. And Hudana and Hudana, she was she's considered the first writer. Okay. She's from she's from, like, 2000 BCE. Sure.
Speaker 1:The very first writer. She maybe she's the one that's saying that is basically writing the story of the like, but what if this is the and you're having the the idea of the cave, having Chaucer there, having having, like, having writers and philosophers and whatnot. I I don't know how interesting it looks on the screen
Speaker 2:per se. What could be interesting so right. So just the chorus discussing and Plato being the only one to manipulate them doesn't work. What if Plato is the first one to realize that these people are they collectively have the power to manipulate reality as too strong, but they're clearly this is our chance. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:If we can get these people who are way too zen about their role in this Yeah. To actually care and and and move these things about, we can get this done. And so it like, Plato is trying to do it at first and they're like, ah, yes. They failed as as we knew they would Mhmm. And things like that.
Speaker 2:And that's when Plato, like, grabs Hemingway and pulls him over and says, but do they need to fail? What Ernest, what do you think? And and so it it, like they they end up pulling in all of these creators Mhmm. To then tell the witnesses of reality what it should be.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, fuck. Yeah.
Speaker 2:What if in so doing, they end up because these are I don't know if these characters would be knowing or not. Basically, the idea that Dee is tearing apart reality to get the words of God, to get the the language of God. And unbeknownst to him, all of these people who have fallen through as they're speaking to the witnesses, they are lit like like, we see new words flash or or the words. Yeah. They're they're yeah.
Speaker 2:They're kind of in so doing, they're sewing reality back together. Just the storytellers telling the witnesses. Okay. Who then right? So this combination then is helping to sew up the tapestry of reality.
Speaker 1:I just thought of it. Okay. We're onto something here. We're creating the hero with a thousand faces.
Speaker 2:Are we?
Speaker 1:No. I'm saying that like, so Joseph Campbell's mom is
Speaker 2:he manifests right there.
Speaker 1:But we're we're telling like, if it's all these voices telling the story and crafting, like, all of reality exists because people lived to experience it and then tell it Yeah. That you cannot destroy reality if the words still exist. Even though we'll never know what Homer's Odyssey sounded like, it still exists because it was spoken enough that it eventually got written down. And so we've we're we might have our fantastic four, our our boots on the ground characters who are out there punching, swinging, shooting, and and doing.
Speaker 2:We're also creating your cosmic council?
Speaker 1:Yeah. The and and and the words of all these people are are saving reality because the words of all these people are reality.
Speaker 2:Okay. So in the third act, when John D has gathered all of the words he needs Mhmm. He comes back to the amphitheater Mhmm. And the and our heroes chase him. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And and, like, he sees what's happening. He's like, ah. Yeah. And he, like, like stitched back together. Sort of.
Speaker 2:Like like means nothing.
Speaker 1:I'm about to tear apart.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And and and he does so right there. Like, he even, like, sunders the amp like, a big crack across the amputee, and all of our characters scatter to the the edges of it Mhmm. Or something. And our heroes show up, and that's sort of where the the the final fight then begins Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In a good old punch them
Speaker 1:up Yeah. Fashion. With with just these four. But even even so far as because those these four characters weren't here Mhmm. Whatever was happening here also affected the people involved.
Speaker 1:So the the people in the amphitheater can't even fight. It's like
Speaker 2:It I don't know if I wanna make it that they can't fight. Like, I think we we could have a couple characters. We don't have to decide who they are. Like, try to be like, no. We're gonna get you now.
Speaker 2:And they try and d knocks them back. Like, they they show a little power. Yeah. D, like, knocks them back. It's just nothing.
Speaker 1:Quick cameo in the actor who played r Wyatt Earp is in this in this As as Wyatt Earp.
Speaker 2:Wyatt Earp.
Speaker 1:And he gets a few shots and puts at the side. Yeah. But sorry. Oh, I gotta tell don't yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I'll back. I'll come back. Keep going.
Speaker 2:No. No.
Speaker 1:The the idea of of people popping in and out, the finale to Justice League Unlimited has this moment of of where it's one green lantern and then turns into Jon Stewart, turns into Guy Gardner.
Speaker 2:I didn't wanna do that.
Speaker 1:Okay. You're just saying No. When you mean pop in,
Speaker 2:you mean literally? Visually, like, they have been here the whole time.
Speaker 1:Got it. Okay.
Speaker 2:And by pop in, I mean They run into the a moment is like, oh, a new hero enters the the the frame Mhmm. The frame of our camera. Mhmm. And Johnny's like, no, not you.
Speaker 1:And and okay. So our four heroes
Speaker 2:Because because that also gives us a bunch of literally bystanders for our heroes to try to save.
Speaker 1:Right. And it's these four some some events in act two will will clarify this, why it's just these four that are the only four that can stop John d in the end.
Speaker 2:Well, I I figure, initially, it's well, it it has a lot to do with the story that is told. They were the ones who stepped forward. Thus, they are the ones the witnesses sent and the storytellers Mhmm. Supported. And then somewhere in act two, may maybe, actually, maybe they get our chorus and and tellers get scattered earlier.
Speaker 2:John d realizes, why do these four keep coming after me? And he goes and he scatters them.
Speaker 1:Oh, sure.
Speaker 2:So that's actually our low point for our heroes Yeah. Because they get stranded in time. And now we have to find another Deus Ex to to pull them out.
Speaker 1:One fine yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. If you got it.
Speaker 1:The the midpoint moment is when John D realizes why these four keep chasing me down. Instead of meeting them, I'm gonna figure out why. Oh, it's because of the the tower. Yeah. I'm gonna crumble the tower.
Speaker 1:I'm tearing
Speaker 2:it Sure.
Speaker 1:All all these historical figures are not gonna boom boom boom boom. Thus, our four characters are now stranded. And he's like, your your your gods and your machine are gone. I'm I'm it. And you are if you're gonna still be against me, I'm gonna leave you here to to to disappear from all memory and existence.
Speaker 1:And now the four of them are are stuck, and we need we do need an actual deus ex to come in and insert them back into the final fight. And if the final fight occurs in a whirlwind of all time and space, we can still have those moments of other heroes and villains entering and leaving, entering and leaving.
Speaker 2:Sure. I remember the detail I wanted to put in to to show that the universe is is fraying apart and falling apart. Mhmm. Throughout, we we definitely start with anytime we show the sky, there are lots of stars. And as the as the story goes on, they're blinking out.
Speaker 2:And so by the end, there is nothing left.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's just just our
Speaker 2:because we're gonna literally Langle ears this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So do do who is our our last Yoda?
Speaker 2:Off the top of my head, it's Einstein. Right? He he
Speaker 1:wanted to go back to the center.
Speaker 2:Goofy little guy pops pops out and
Speaker 1:says, oh, are you are you having trouble? I see you're having a little trouble getting through time and space. Yeah. What a conundrum.
Speaker 2:You've you've had such such good inertia
Speaker 1:up till now. No.
Speaker 2:He didn't he didn't do inertia. That was Isaac Isaac Newton. The
Speaker 1:oldest person in written history is a Sumerian. And if that's who they come across as, like, the
Speaker 2:old Gilgamesh?
Speaker 1:He's not Gilgamesh. He's a legend, but Kush Kushin.
Speaker 2:Well, no. Well, you purportedly based on a real person.
Speaker 1:Kushman is the Sumerian I'm thinking of. He was Mesopotamian.
Speaker 2:He invented the Kush.
Speaker 1:Was an he used the Kush he created the Kush ball. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of, like, what is the most ancient of historical figures that could be, if not Einstein
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Acts. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Sending them back into the fray to to fight John Dee and and cut having it come down to a punch him up.
Speaker 1:We don't want this to end in a do we want this to end in a a third act battle royale? Like, is there I we've we've seen some perfectly good Avengers. You know? Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, also, we've seen the the twist on that would be Thunderbolts have recently to go like, no. There's a different way to do this final fight. I'm just I defeating John d in the end, do they use does does Oppenheimer use his own word against him? Does how does our four how do our four characters come together in the end?
Speaker 2:My my note my notion was it's a punch them up. Yeah. That's why I wanted to give him powers. They have powers versus magic.
Speaker 1:Well, then let's do this. They un let's unravel his powers one at a time so that he is down to his, like, last and first trick or his first trick. Like, if we just, like, slowly negate or take out his powers one by one courtesy of our four characters so that he's he can't use this anymore. He can't use this anymore. He's just, like, emptying, emptying, emptying down to his last few tricks.
Speaker 1:And then, all he has left is essentially, what I'm trying to suggest here, almost without doing it on purpose is but now I'm doing it on purpose. In reality, John d had everything, lost everything, and died in poverty. So we're literally gonna take this character to the point of nearly being god and then stripping him down till he has nothing left, and he vanishes from existence, forgotten with nothing. I don't know how we achieve that within a final fight, and we don't necessarily have to decide that right now. But that's that is the that is my suggestion of him being this unstoppable force that chip chip chip chips down to nothing.
Speaker 2:Okay. Do we our our ticking clock.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Do we want it to be where reality is almost destroyed or is the ticking clock reality is destroyed and now he is building it? He is building a new one.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Okay. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:And so as he's building a new one, he's kind of using the letter the the words he has gathered. So that's one way he starts losing these words, and he's being whittled down. And maybe they also managed to get a few away from him, but he's, he's using up his power to do the goal he had to begin with. Mhmm. And, right, he's about to use the the if if it has to be the ticking clock down to down to the the the last second before the bomb goes off Mhmm.
Speaker 2:He's about to use that last word, and they stop him. They they they they defeat him. They get away from him, and they they they punch him real hard
Speaker 1:in the nose. How about this? How about this? You know, like No. No.
Speaker 1:No. I like it. He he wins, and he's re creating reality just as you suggested, But you said something in the midst of it. Oh. They've collected some words along the way.
Speaker 1:So then he's he's you'd said that that
Speaker 2:Sort of. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. That if if he he's at a point of recreating all reality, and he's like, don't even need everything. I have enough to do what I want.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And if if Oppenheimer, Hetty, Mushu,
Speaker 2:and Mushashi.
Speaker 1:Mushashi and, Joan have collected words as well, they're gonna like, we give up. You're right. It's all that exists in reality now is you, the four of us, and everything you're about to create. We will we will just give we we give up. We will give you the last bit of knowledge that we have gained.
Speaker 1:We fought you down to a bloody end and you still beat us. We give you this. And they give him the last few things he needs, tricking him into completing the recreation of reality to exactly the way it was before and erasing himself from existence. Like, they it's it's all a ploy in the end. The legend of the jinn, according to
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Thousand one Arabian Nights, your third wish has to be to put the genie back in the bottle. Because if you don't, that genie will destroy the real all of reality in the universe. Oh. Because they are that is what the third wish has to be. So technically, the genie says, you get three wishes, anything you want.
Speaker 1:I mean, you could do anything, and I'll do it for you. But the the legend, as it originally was written, is you have to put the genie back in the bottle with your third wish or they will destroy reality. That's why they were put in the bottle in the first place. So sort of tricking our villain into setting everything back to the way it was is my suggestion here.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm wondering if that so I had another end I don't know how we would get there, but I had another ending in mind as well.
Speaker 1:Let's hear it. Let's
Speaker 2:hear it. But I I also don't I don't I am afraid that it has the same problem as what you're suggesting, which is an unsatisfying our heroes didn't win. The villain just tricked himself.
Speaker 1:Right. Okay.
Speaker 2:Go ahead with your understanding. And it it's something like either John D actually does accomplish what he wants to do or they do stop John d from completing it. And and sort of when he's been stripped down to his barest, two angels literally like descend or appear where they are Mhmm. And stop the things that are happening. And like, they're like, we heard you, John.
Speaker 2:What is it you want? Would you like to have a word with with God? You can come with any they literally take him. And actually, I guess this could even be seen as him winning because then he gets to go through a pearly gate or whatever and he's just never seen again. And they're like, well, what do we do?
Speaker 2:And they said, you have you You have the words? You have the well, you have free will. Mhmm. You do it do as you do as you will. Something something like that.
Speaker 2:Like I said, it doesn't feel Yeah. Doesn't feel quite right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It lets him win. I you know, I yeah. I'm sorry. I don't I don't like it.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be heaven.
Speaker 1:Well, that I'd read that.
Speaker 2:We we've seen what you've done.
Speaker 1:Give the Raiders the last lost arc ending. Like, I did it. I opened the arc. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Melt my face melt my Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. You opened to the gates of heaven, and all that did was like, oh, we noticed the doors open. No. No, buddy. You you're gonna go somewhere else.
Speaker 1:If the okay. Another another shot here. Succeeding and nothing is there. To be like, there is no like, I finally have the words to call to hear the voice in response, and no one responded. I've gotten everything I could ever hope for.
Speaker 1:I've this is all I've this is all I've reached for is this. We get we have an Indiana Jones situation here where oh, so he would've lost no matter what. If I don't know if that's necessary.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Know that that but the the whole no matter what thing is is what doesn't feel right with any of these endings we're suggesting. So I think it's just a punch of all.
Speaker 1:I think I I the They they of Rael is erased, and and they they he's got the he's missing the last few words. So they use the words against him. They obliterate him from all of existence so that you you will not be remembered. You will be you've been tried, weighed, and measured, and you've been found wanting, and they obliterate him. But now they have to set everything right.
Speaker 1:So the four of them are the are they speak the final words to reseal the timeline and then exist in modern day would be certainly, a matter of perspective. But to give us that they can't return to their they've they've reset reality so so well. They've reset themselves, and now these four beings
Speaker 2:Oh, no. Not just four. All of the people who've fallen out of time.
Speaker 1:Okay. Okay. Yeah. Any yeah. Anyone who slipped through the cracks and exists, whether it's a dozen or a 100, what have you.
Speaker 1:Now where where do we go? Where do we exist? We do we just exist in stories from this point on? We could leave that open ended and and then have them have to exist in modern day in whatever sequels amount from this. But Well, I the point is they punch them to death, erase them from existence.
Speaker 1:They work together and reseal time and space, and now they are floating above all of they exist outside of existence and have a choice to make. They are the Olympians. They are the Norse gods. What if They are the shamans.
Speaker 2:They they don't they don't obliterate them out of out of existence because I don't like them using the words. Mhmm. I I like the idea that, at least not on purpose. It it it is a point of hubris to take the words of God Mhmm. And use them for your own purposes.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:So I don't want them to use any words even any even any words that they have have have captured and kept from John. Mhmm. But if they punch him up and defeat him and strip him strip the things he's gotten from God Mhmm. What if he gets a Grecian end? He gets strapped to a bit of rubble there.
Speaker 1:Forever and ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oof. To watch from outside of time.
Speaker 1:Plato can suggest it. I know what we should do. Sure. Actually, I heard a story once. Oh, fuck.
Speaker 2:No. I really yeah. No. I really like that because then it then it makes all of history
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The shadows on the cave wall Yeah. For the audience of John. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. Yeah. And even more so, it's not this doesn't happen in front of like, heroes say, you know, they've defeated him and and even walk like, they walk away, time and space heal itself, and and John Dee reveals himself to have survived in some capacity. And that's when Plato or whatever walks up and goes, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Your your story is not in. In fact, your story is infinite. And then he unbeknownst to anyone else punishes whoever our whether it's Plato or one of our chorus characters.
Speaker 2:So the one of the reasons that they don't destroy him is because the the whole notion they're outside of of reality. Mhmm. They can't obliterate anything. Anything. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They don't have the words of God to do so. All they can do is literally stop him from from doing it, but they can't end him. Right. That's why they then have to chackle him to a thing. Sure.
Speaker 2:Is is is my notion.
Speaker 1:That I'm I'm all for that notion. I'm just trying to absolve our heroes from doing something so heinous to to to give someone an endless hell.
Speaker 2:I'm Is is that heinous to do to a villain?
Speaker 1:No. Well,
Speaker 2:I Such that wants to destroy reality. Sure.
Speaker 1:I'm creating a moral gray line here.
Speaker 2:Fair. Yeah. So to that end, what if what if it like, it's a discussion, like, there, including our our our not just our heroes. Mhmm. What if Plato says, I'll be his keeper.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There you go. That's that's that's good. That that satisfies me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. And now where do our where do these where do our heroes choose to go? Do they become now this has been done in more than one thing, and I'm not for or against it. I'm just gonna suggest it. Do they become the the myths and legends of all of
Speaker 2:I don't don't like that.
Speaker 1:Okay. I just wanted
Speaker 2:to say it. I want I'm I want to create a franchise here.
Speaker 1:Want to create
Speaker 2:a full IP. Okay. In stitching time, they have created the lives that they should have lived Mhmm. Which is the lives we know. Right.
Speaker 2:And because of that, they cannot return to that. Mhmm. Because they they are too changed, whether through memory or whether through actual change. And never mind that they can re rewrite reality.
Speaker 1:And oh, they can only do that that one time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's it. Now they have their superpowers.
Speaker 2:And so, but they can't live here in the amp in in the amphitheater beyond time. Mhmm. So they have to go they have to go somewhere.
Speaker 1:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:And they choose even though time goes beyond they go to the edge of the flow of time.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Basically, and the furthest time that they can find is now.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Does does that the furthest time they can reach from where they are Mhmm. Is is now.
Speaker 1:We could we could even have a moment of them choosing to go there and and heady concealed. I'm looking I'm wondering why we were drawn here. Well, I'm sure whatever it is will present itself. Like, the having that sort of philosophical, the flow at time point has gotten to here. This is the natural place to go.
Speaker 1:But trying to think scientifically about it and go, why here? Why now? Well, whatever it is, we'll find out together. Like, that then even just that little bit of suggestion of it's the Joker card at the end of Batman Begins. It's the it's the game is on Okay.
Speaker 1:At the end of Dracula Untold.
Speaker 2:Why'd you have to choose those? Just Sure. Yeah. Just Well, the thing is we can they are outside of time and space. We can still create a a notion that there isn't truly a future.
Speaker 2:All of these peep there was a future for all of these people once they were pulled out of time. Because one thing we didn't do is we didn't invent future historical people. True. So
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. We don't have a Rufus.
Speaker 2:What we can do I only know of other myths and stuff. It it's it's literally the leading edge of the thread of fate. Like
Speaker 1:Great. That's a good way to talk
Speaker 2:about it. Right? Like, like, you they they literally see particles of of of time in reality pulling together at at at sort of the
Speaker 1:Today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and that's why I said it's sort of like a flow. So it's it's not just sort of a static bar Mhmm. That it floats in front of them. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It's if if you want to even imagine the timeline as a literal line, the past, they can reach, but like the the the the thread of the future keeps keeps going. If if I I'm doing I'm doing a bad
Speaker 1:job of You're doing great. You're doing great. The weaving of time where the weaving is the tightest is the furthest back. And as it gets closer to the frayed edges of it that's being weaved together, it is today. They go to today.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there could even, again, another, bit of dialogue that suggests, woah. This this is why we didn't see anything beyond this point. We don't know. History has not solidified itself from this point forward. That's why there's no year 3,000 heroes amongst us.
Speaker 1:Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Then going to modern day and a little bit of sequel bait of there are fantastical powers currently. The end of Incredibles ends with the, I am the Underbinder.
Speaker 2:Like, coming out, they
Speaker 1:they suit up to, like, let's do it. Some some hint of that of, oh, we chose this. Well, I guess we'll just have to keep our powers under wraps and figure that, uh-oh, maybe there's a reason to use it after all, roll credits.
Speaker 2:Oh. Oh, I I seriously yeah. The reason I figured that they brought all the reasons with them. Mhmm. There's 200?
Speaker 1:Right. And even though even local people? If if we have in the denouement of this not everyone agreed to stay in the amphitheater. What do you mean? You're not the only ones going back to
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, I'm sorry. My idea was they didn't have, like, they didn't have a choice. Initially, they they were going to destroy they were gonna destroy the pocket dimension.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I I was understanding that four of them go to modern day. You're saying all 100 of these characters? Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. You don't like that?
Speaker 1:No. That's okay. We can that's fine.
Speaker 2:No. If you don't like that, tell me.
Speaker 1:I I I I'm I wanna have a setup for more movies that take place in modern day without time travel. So it's fine if this ends with an explosion of magical, scientific, time traveling, super powered, insane people all appearing all at once. It's just it's definitely to be continued.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. That I want near I wanna fight Nero.
Speaker 1:Okay. And
Speaker 2:we can't we can't do Nero if they get written back into the timeline.
Speaker 1:Right. That's fine. Yeah. I'm I'm okay with that. That the that this is definitely way more comic booky than film.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But we and the demand was for a film. That's fine. I think that structurally, we have a a conclusion to this story because the villain has been defeated. Our characters have a new status quo that is nothing like where they started.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. They win on this full experience, using this adventure as a pseudo deconstruction of the monomyth in many sense. Like, the hero of a thousand faces is funny because we have a thousand characters or a 100. We can pick our number. A thousand.
Speaker 1:A thousand. I what
Speaker 2:I always go I always go big.
Speaker 1:Way way more than we probably should have. Yeah. But using this as a storytelling a storytelling mechanism to tell a story within a story. Like, all the weaving of this. This is a lot of juggling, but, hey, we love our time travel and multiverse storytelling in this in this series of in this show.
Speaker 1:So I think we're we're in a we're in a good spot with it.
Speaker 2:I just had an idea. Oh. What if what if when they first fall out of time and they see the timeline, what if the nuclear bomb going off was the end of time?
Speaker 1:Oh, so there's nothing beyond Yeah. The the
Speaker 2:And when they stitch a new timeline together, it it's continuing, and they don't know what that means.
Speaker 1:Okay. Could would we then that's not bad. Would then we exist in a revisionist history from the point of the bomb on? The dropping of the bomb or
Speaker 2:the testing of the bomb? I
Speaker 1:think the dropping of the bomb. Right?
Speaker 2:I think the testing of the bomb is when he said it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, that's when he said it. Yes. Yeah. So it'd be basically, we get
Speaker 2:to play into my one of my favorite bits of of bomb lore, which is they right? Which they covered in Oppenheimer. There was a 2% chance it would ignite the atmosphere. I love that so much. Basically, we insinuated it.
Speaker 1:Okay. And then once they restitched it back together, time went on. Yeah. And now there's there's a lot of questions from that point to where the weaving of time is the most style that we can all go to.
Speaker 2:So maybe they get sprinkled throughout that time. There we go. So in the last at this point, eighty years Mhmm. Our thousand characters
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Got sprinkled through eighty years of now manipulating, changing our timeline.
Speaker 1:Okay. And then and and that sort of thing we'll be able to explore in few further adventures of these characters and our and our fantastic four of Oppenheimer, Joan of Arc, Hetty Lamar, and Miyam oto Musashi Yep. Are the last line of defend. They they're the first family. They're the they are the fantastic four.
Speaker 2:Yes. And and their their Ziggy will be Plato. Yeah. Because we didn't destroy the pocket. The the He's their Uatu.
Speaker 1:He's their
Speaker 2:Uatu. Yes. We didn't we didn't destroy oh, it'd be really interesting if John d is their Uatu. Reality. Like, John, this is what you wanted.
Speaker 2:Reality exists because you witness it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, man. What a punishment. The two of them. It's we'll use an x 51 and Uatu.
Speaker 1:It should blind Uatu from Earth
Speaker 2:X. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. Go ahead and dwell on that for a minute. I think Katie, Sam, terrible two pictures. You gave us a challenge.
Speaker 2:I know we were kinda rushing at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So no. That's okay. I well, we weren't rushing. I think I took that as enthusiasm.
Speaker 1:Were you enthusiasm. I took you like,
Speaker 2:I felt like you were kinda speeding through the beat because we finally had our characters and motivations Mhmm. And so we're kinda speeding through beats.
Speaker 1:I will to I've tip I've explained this before. My writing philosophy, at least one of the philosophies I have is once you get the ball rolling, take a moment to figure out how you want to end, and then you can connect those dots way easier. Like, starting with an end in mind, I know there's a lot of writers who do that. But Hard. It's real hard to do.
Speaker 1:That's that's a that is a tough challenge because knowing where something's gonna end doesn't doesn't even begin to tell you how to start the damn thing.
Speaker 2:And you know what? That's the only way I can figure out how to write a mystery.
Speaker 1:Oh. That's a tangent question. That's a different that's a different thing. I've written move any any script I've written that is a an unraveling of a mystery, will always write in reverse.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I will I will still give my character, like, maybe my first couple scenes, but then go to that end point and go, okay. How do we connect these dots? Mhmm. Backwards is the best way. But for more standard writing, getting that act one, introducing your characters, understanding who they are, their motivations, like what you need to do with them, and then knowing how we crash it all together Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That helps fill in the middle real nicely. And we've done that a 100 times on this show. Yeah. So yeah. So, Katie, Sam, did did we did we achieve this?
Speaker 1:I know. I know we missed so many historical figures, and I really wanna hear from all of you listening who would be great in a scenario like this because, hey, we've got a franchise here. So we can we can certainly throw in as many historical figures as possible into whatever comic book, novel, video game, TV series, movie spin offs this whole thing has. We don't have a name for this. Maybe four fantastic four fantastic heroes, four fantastic figures.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I'll let Jim think about that as I wrap up here.
Speaker 2:I'm staring off.
Speaker 1:How did we do? You gotta hit us up. Agree or disagree. What did we miss? We missed a lot.
Speaker 1:You can message us directly at studio demands it dot com or sorry. I'm joking over here. Studiodemandsit.com or on Instagram at studiodemandsit. If you are not already, you can subscribe, of course. And if you wanna give us a little review, that don't hurt none.
Speaker 1:Right? Get us out there in the algorithm. Even if you wanna give us a one star review, it don't matter. It's still a review. You can find us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video content including material not heard here on the show.
Speaker 1:Hey, Jim. What are thinking about over there? Heroastery. Heroastery? Heroastery?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It just sounds like a chicken place.
Speaker 1:It does sound like a chicken. Have you had their barbecue? Oh, barbecue hero history. Oh, boy. Jim, what do got?
Speaker 2:Oh, for the the the We're saying for the technicals. Come join the conversation at on Reddit at r slash studio demands it where where you we can talk about stuff on Reddit. We can talk about the podcast on on on that part, or you can come to the Discord by going to our website studiodemandsit.com, and there is a link to the server on on Discord at the top of that web page where we are also discussing the podcast and movies in general.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. If you want even more of us, you can head over to Patreon for a couple bucks a month. You can get episodes early, commercial free, as well as extended double length episodes. Before this episode began, we discussed dystopians in fiction and which we'd rather live in as aside from the own dystopian that we're currently existing in. So Patreon will give you that.
Speaker 1:You can also get commentary tracks which have bonus episodes within those commentary tracks. Our commentary track for July was Superman three, which, you know, is is a is a good one. It's good. Might be the best Superman movie?
Speaker 2:Might be.
Speaker 1:Might be. Okay. You can show some love over at Patreon as well by subscribing for free. We do some free content every now and then. So free material.
Speaker 1:Sorry. Content's a dirty Massive thank you to Six Five Media for everything they do for us. Please check out the other Six Five shows. We missed a huge opportunity of to promote another artificial podcast Yep. On the Megan episode.
Speaker 1:We did. I apologize. I can't believe I didn't do that. Yeah. Please go check that out.
Speaker 2:That was an amazing suggestion from oh, no. I I don't
Speaker 1:Someone someone in the Discord or Reddit dropped it on there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Discord.
Speaker 1:Yeah. While Jim is panic searching on his phone for for that name drop real quick. Yeah. I'm going to man, I wish I had more historical figure just figures to just pull out of my pocket.
Speaker 2:Well, honestly, because we mentioned him in so many stories, really too, at the top of the episode and talking about things that have done stuff like this Mhmm. We didn't use Sam Clemens, but I would have loved to use Sam Clemens.
Speaker 1:You ever see that claymation Mark Twain? I own it. Oh, my God. What's the name of
Speaker 2:that thing? The Adventures of Mark Twain.
Speaker 1:The Adventures of Mark Twain. It's this claymation nightmare movie. It's so great. I remember as a kid, they do a whole thing where he's got, like, a dual identity bad version. Go, Jim.
Speaker 2:The Plucky Plumber.
Speaker 1:The Plucky Plumber. Yes. Plucky Plumber is right. We should have plugged another Zelda podcast. Okay.
Speaker 1:We're gonna wrap up the mainline episode here unless, Jimmy, you have anything else you'd like to say?
Speaker 2:Not at this time.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's it for this episode. What a doozy. You know what? No.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna wrap it up. I'm gonna say this on on your head. Okay. Like, we there's a little panic here. This was a little tough, like, to we weren't locking in on anything there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was a little worried about it.
Speaker 2:Well, we we've had worse. We've had ones where we had way less near there. Granted, we went longer. Mhmm. So if we had had the restriction, maybe we wouldn't have gotten there.
Speaker 1:Right. We got there. We got there. But
Speaker 2:we got there. Yeah. I can't recall which episodes we we like, I remember hitting the halfway point, I felt pretty solid that we were on the right track.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Dude, the
Speaker 2:But there were other we've had other episodes where we'd hit we'd hit the halfway point. We have nothing. Missing Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1:Ink was one of those episodes. Oh, yeah. Mister Ink was one of those episodes where we're like, what are we doing? And then that became the finale. So Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's something for you there. Who knows if this will be? That'll be up to you all to decide in the future. But that's it. I'm TC.
Speaker 2:I am Jim.
Speaker 1:And and this is the end
Speaker 2:of the
Speaker 1:world of as we know it. Yep. And we feel
Speaker 2:What would your power be?
Speaker 1:Me? Yeah. I'd love super speed. That'd be great. That's how I sound though.
Speaker 1:That's the disadvantage.
Speaker 2:That's how do you write that in your comic book? B l b l. No. That's too much.