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Hosts Spencer Horn and Christian Napier discuss a better way to build and strengthen teams in any organization.
Christian Napier
00:12 - 00:25
Well, hello everyone and welcome to a special afternoon edition, afternoon for us, here at Teamwork a Better Way. I'm joined by the incomparable Spencer Horn. Spencer, how are you doing this wonderful Monday afternoon?
Spencer Horn
00:26 - 00:29
I'm so great. It seems like it's been a while since I've seen you.
Christian Napier
00:29 - 00:42
You're looking good. You're a little tan. That's unintentional, but thank you. It has been a minute, and I'm super excited for us to have a conversation with our guests.
Christian Napier
00:42 - 00:48
But before we do, you've got to tell me a little bit about what's been going on the past few weeks. I'm sure you've been super busy.
Spencer Horn
00:48 - 01:03
Oh my goodness, yeah. I mean, we just welcomed our 11th grandbaby just a couple days ago. You know, just so many wonderful things going on. My daughter and her family are moving close, and so we've got the whole brood.
Spencer Horn
01:03 - 01:14
My lovely wife is just in heaven with grandkids all around her. Just life is good. I know you've got a lot of people going on in your home too.
Christian Napier
01:15 - 01:32
Yeah, my office is a little disheveled at the moment. Our daughter is down here with our three month old grandson. So great. She's here with her husband visiting and they're going through a lot of her belongings that we've had in storage for a while.
Christian Napier
01:32 - 01:53
And so we've got various staging areas set up here in the house where she's going through things. So my office is kind of like the The closet is kind of the storage annex here at the moment. So apologize for things being a little disheveled here at the moment, but we're super excited to have her here. So yeah, everything's great.
Christian Napier
01:54 - 02:04
Okay, well, speaking of great things, we have a great guest. I'm super excited for you to introduce her. Let everybody know who we're gonna be speaking with today, Spencer.
Spencer Horn
02:05 - 02:57
Well, let me put Pollyanna up on the screen so everyone can see my amazing friend, Pollyanna. I've gotten to know, what has it been, the last month or so that you and I, or two, and we've actually had the opportunity to speak quite a bit online. Pollyanna Lenkic is a Melbourne-based team coach, facilitator, and speaker who spent over two decades helping leaders build high-performing, sustainable teams and approaching performance through a systems lens rather than an individual fix by itself. And before her coaching career, she co-founded a specialist recruitment consultancy in London and growing it to a team of 18 and an 8-figure turnover before returning to Australia.
Spencer Horn
02:58 - 03:26
She has since worked with leadership teams and organizations including National Australia Bank, and St. John, guiding them through major transformation using structured team diagnostic methods. And her core belief is leaders spend too much time developing individuals and not enough time examining the system those individuals are working within. Pollyanna, welcome to the show.
Spencer Horn
03:26 - 03:28
We're so glad to have you.
Pollyanna Lenkic
03:29 - 03:35
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. And congratulations on your grandbabies, both of you.
Spencer Horn
03:35 - 03:45
Yes. You know what? It's the reward for having been a parent. And I know you know parenting is very rewarding, isn't it?
Pollyanna Lenkic
03:46 - 03:48
It sure is. It sure is.
Spencer Horn
03:48 - 04:00
So Pollyanna, you say that 80% of team performance comes from system design, not individual behavior. Would you walk us through how you arrive at that number?
Pollyanna Lenkic
04:02 - 04:08
Absolutely. And you know, it's all important, right? Individual development is important. We're not saying it's not.
Pollyanna Lenkic
04:09 - 04:36
However, on its own, as my good friend Guntiswa Boda says, a coin minted on one side has no currency, right? So therefore, we need to look after individuals while we're looking at it from a systemic lens and supporting the environment they're in. So they need to go together. And this When you think about 80% of team performance comes from how a team is designed and supported.
Pollyanna Lenkic
04:37 - 04:48
And that design shows up in two places. It shows up in how people engage with each other. It shows up how well they actually do the work they're there to do together. And it's interesting, you've probably seen this one.
Pollyanna Lenkic
04:48 - 05:15
McKinsey surveyed over 15,000 employees across seven countries, the US, the UK, I think Australia and Canada as well. And they modeled what a typical mid-size S&P 500 company would lose when those components aren't in place. And it's between 228 and 355 million a year in productivity alone. So they're mid-tier organizations.
Pollyanna Lenkic
05:15 - 05:33
Now scale that out to large organizations, government agencies, and it just keeps building, right? And I don't know if you've been watching the World Cup, but it's been in your home country. I know Christian has. Oh my God, yeah.
Pollyanna Lenkic
05:33 - 05:53
We're getting up at stupid o'clock here to watch it as a family. But think about Argentina and Messi, arguably one of the greatest individual players that soccer has produced. The guy's phenomenally talented. And yet Spain won 1-0 in the final because they outperformed Argentina.
Pollyanna Lenkic
05:53 - 06:01
Were they the better team? They were the better team. Did they have better star players? I'm not the expert, but they didn't have a Messi.
Pollyanna Lenkic
06:02 - 06:21
So when you look at what happened in that game, it actually speaks to what we talk about, Spencer and Christian, is star players don't make a high-performing team. It's been really interesting to watch that play out from a individual development versus a team development lens.
Spencer Horn
06:22 - 06:27
You're speaking our language, Christian. I'm going to let you run with that one, because I know you've got stuff to say about that.
Christian Napier
06:28 - 06:49
Well, I think a lot of that depends on the sport, right? Like in basketball, a star player can have a larger impact than, say, in soccer. But the team concept remains, and the system is super important. I want to ask you a question, though, because what you're saying sounds right to me.
Christian Napier
06:49 - 07:12
Like, OK, the system really matters. But at the end of the day, who's responsible for the system? I think this is where sometimes people get get stuck. It's like, okay, well, I'm an individual team member or I'm the team manager, but my ability to affect outcomes is limited.
Christian Napier
07:12 - 07:36
And so everybody, yeah, Spencer, like you're doing, everybody's kind of pointing fingers like, okay, well, Who's responsible for implementing this system, right? I guess it depends on organizations. You could draw out the racy charts and you could see, but at the end of the day, if it's a systems thing, then on whose shoulders does it fall to implement the system?
Pollyanna Lenkic
07:37 - 07:56
I think there's no argument from my lens here in the work I do is we are the system, right? The organization is a legal company on a piece of paper on a file somewhere at a data center. The system is the people in the system. We all have a responsibility in the system.
Pollyanna Lenkic
07:57 - 08:19
There's an amazing consultant I met years ago who mapped influence in a system. He just did the most extraordinary work. And the highest levels of influence often either enabled or derailed a system wasn't coming always from the top C-suite or the leadership frame. So influence within a system, we are the system, right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
08:20 - 08:45
We are all a part of the system and we can all make a difference in that system. It just, you know, what difference do you want to make in the system? Do you want to have it to be constructive, the difference or, you know, by inaction, do you want to be a passenger so you can add more blame into the system? Or do you want to start to behave and act in a constructive way where you're working within an ecosystem?
Pollyanna Lenkic
08:46 - 08:47
rather than just from an individual focus.
Spencer Horn
08:48 - 09:16
You know, I think one of the things that would be very helpful, Pollyanna, is I don't know that on this show that we've actually really defined a system. So to your point, Christian, or to your question, if the system is that the people in it are not taking that ownership, that's the system. There's a system where individuals on that system are not taking individual ownership and they're deferring to one leader. That's what we call the system.
Spencer Horn
09:16 - 09:17
Pollyanna, is that right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
09:19 - 09:45
Yeah, so think about, and I don't know anything about basketball, but how does a system organise around a star player? You know, they don't just go, well, you're the star, go do your thing, and we'll just take the trophy at the end, right? I'm not sure how that organises, and you'll be able to speak to that. But when individuals are stuck, It's absolutely what support does that individual need?
Pollyanna Lenkic
09:45 - 10:05
Let's help that, be it a leader, be it a team member, what support or intervention is required to help this person move forward? Again, it's only half of the picture, right? It's what does the system need? What does everyone who's within that system, what's the focus and the lens shift that needs to happen or the perspective shift?
Pollyanna Lenkic
10:06 - 10:17
so that we can look at it from a, what do we need together, rather than what do I need individually? Does that come, is that what you're looking for, Spencer? I'm not- Yeah, I think so.
Spencer Horn
10:17 - 10:49
I mean, I don't know that we've really done a good job, because when you talk about leading the system, what does that actually look like day to day? I mean, you're describing, you know, we need to do what the system needs. So often, I mean, I have talked with you before, but not on this show, where I as a leader would lead the individuals or talk to them about what they needed, but I wasn't addressing what the system needed, and that created a problem for me. So what does that mean?
Spencer Horn
10:49 - 11:16
I mean, you can have a system, for example, that's geared around messy. and they defer on certain plays to him, but they, you know, Spain was able to defeat that because they organized their system differently in a way, and they attacked it as a system, not individual star against star, but complete system against, you know, maybe a different type of system that gave them an advantage. I don't know if I'm explaining it the right, but how do you...
Pollyanna Lenkic
11:17 - 11:26
So it's working together and shifting your lens. You know, we think about, think about professional development. you know, self, what do I need for me? What's my agenda?
Pollyanna Lenkic
11:27 - 11:36
What do I want for my career focus? What's important to me in how we build skills, capabilities? That's a self-lens. Going into a meeting, what's the outcomes we need to get?
Pollyanna Lenkic
11:36 - 11:46
Self. Then we expand it out to other. I think these three lenses are really important scaffolding as part of the response to this question. What does another person need?
Pollyanna Lenkic
11:46 - 11:58
So you're connecting in with other. But then the third layer is the systemic layer. What does the team need to be successful? It might be surfacing the tension that's just rumbling and being discussed out in the corridors.
Pollyanna Lenkic
11:59 - 12:24
It might be looking at how decision rights are organized within that system. Who has decision rights? It might be that the leader inadvertently, beautiful, well-caring leaders that we work with become the bottleneck because they're holding everything and every decision has to come through them. So therefore the system has no, the people in the system Remember, as you rightly mentioned, who is the system?
Pollyanna Lenkic
12:24 - 12:46
Well, everybody in that team, everybody in that organisation, we're all part of a system. So how do we organise all those key traits that we need to do in a professional environment? Everything from how we engage with each other, and there's so many factors there, down to how we do the work we do together. And that's, where does accountability sit?
Pollyanna Lenkic
12:47 - 13:04
Where do decision rights sit? What do we agreed on? Are we actually all aligned on what we're here to do? Think about the last time you got into a messy conversation and maybe had the impact that wasn't intended.
Pollyanna Lenkic
13:04 - 13:22
We all create a mess, right, occasionally. It can be because we've got the same words, but maybe there's different meaning and different weight of emotion attached to it. So unless people come together as a unit, as a team, that is the system. When I'm working with the team, the team is a system.
Pollyanna Lenkic
13:22 - 13:36
It's an entity in its own right, based on the TCI methodology. And so how do you bring together what this team needs to be successful? And then you look at all the components. And there's so much research out there, right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
13:36 - 13:54
We are so blessed with the research that we have on teams. We can actually use that research to look at the team, have a conversation with that team, and get really clear. on all the key components that will have this team be successful. That's what makes the work so exciting.
Pollyanna Lenkic
13:54 - 13:55
You know, it's tangible.
Christian Napier
14:09 - 14:15
I was waiting for Spencer to press the button. I saw you. I was like, he's waiting for me. She's saying great stuff here, Spencer.
Christian Napier
14:15 - 14:16
I know, I know.
Spencer Horn
14:16 - 14:18
I was a little slow. I was watching you watching me.
Pollyanna Lenkic
14:18 - 14:21
And I was going to my dad's.
Christian Napier
14:24 - 14:54
OK, so while I'm listening to you, a lot of the words that you're using and the concepts that you're sharing, sometimes people think about a system, sometimes people use the word culture. I'm curious to hear from you, are culture and the system, are they the same or are there differences? And what is the relationship between system and culture? Because we hear people talk about culture a lot, right?
Christian Napier
14:54 - 15:08
Especially in the last, I'd say 10, 20 years, a lot of people talking about culture. So I'm just curious to get your perspective on, you know, how synonymous are systems and culture? How are they related to each other?
Pollyanna Lenkic
15:10 - 15:19
It's all interwoven. You know, culture is, you know, you're walking, have you ever walked into a room and someone's had an argument? Of course you have, right? And everyone's smiling and going, yeah, it's all fine.
Pollyanna Lenkic
15:20 - 15:35
It's all good here, nothing to see here. And you can feel it, right? So culture is something that you can feel in an organization. You sit, you know, you sit in a reception area of an organization you're going to work with, you'll pick up the energy, the nuances of the culture.
Pollyanna Lenkic
15:35 - 15:44
So they're interwoven cultures. What is the culture in this system? It's nuanced, it's layered, it's interconnected. It's not one thing.
Pollyanna Lenkic
15:44 - 16:06
It's not that you can pull each part, each bit apart and go, we'll just work on this. It's connected. And when you start to pull out the aspects of what makes this place a great place to work or not, What makes this a great team to be a part of or not? Culture sits in that.
Pollyanna Lenkic
16:06 - 16:19
What culture have we created? We who are the system. Culture isn't just something that's handed down in an email and some words on a poster in reception. Culture is what we create together.
Pollyanna Lenkic
16:20 - 16:36
And that's where accountability sits in a system. Again, maybe system can be a confusing word because it makes it feel like we're detached from it. Think about the team. we're part of systems, we're part of community systems, we're part of our family systems.
Pollyanna Lenkic
16:36 - 16:50
Culture sits in each of those places, but what are we bringing to it? We're not passengers in this process. And I think that's a really important thing to take on board. We each contribute.
Pollyanna Lenkic
16:51 - 17:11
So Christian, culture sits there, it's interwoven, it's what we create when we're with people, whether we're working together, whether we're you know, in a sports team, we create an environment that we're either contributing to in an engaged way, or we feel we can't, or we choose not to.
Spencer Horn
17:14 - 17:46
Can you give us, Pollyanna, an example of a system or let's call it a team that looked dysfunctional. And it was basically looked at as this is a dysfunctional team, but it was not individuals that were causing the problem. It was a system that was broken, dressed up as individual people problems? Am I making myself clear?
Pollyanna Lenkic
17:46 - 18:08
I don't know if I've... Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I know we've spoken about a case study that I've shared with you in the past, where we had team members from two very different organizations, and they felt they had very different identities, very different cultural context, and had a lot of judgment about the other, the fact that they just called them the other.
Pollyanna Lenkic
18:09 - 18:49
So with that team, there was a disconnect with how they saw themselves and how they saw that in relationship with other. And that team really did not want to work well together. They had a lot of entrenched beliefs. When we worked, when I worked with the team, they went from completely disconnected to not only an engaged team, but they, improved productivity by 47% across multiple factors, and they improved their positivity rating by 38%.
Pollyanna Lenkic
18:49 - 19:01
Trust increased by 38%. Constructive interaction increased by 60%. So when Christian asked, is culture a part of that system? Absolutely.
Pollyanna Lenkic
19:01 - 19:07
When you're able to have constructive interaction, what happens? Trust builds. None of it is in isolation.
Christian Napier
19:13 - 19:39
All right. So I'm going to ask kind of an off-the-wall question here. But as Spencer was reading your bio, he's saying that when you were, and I looked at this as well, when you were in your mid-20s, you founded this consulting firm, right? And you had a number of full-time staff, and you had over 100 consultants working with you.
Christian Napier
19:42 - 20:09
Your present day self, if you could go back in time and tell your former self one thing, like you should have done this or it could have been just, hey, fantastic job, you were great. If you reflect back on where you were then and now the journey that you've gone through now, what advice would you give to your former self?
Pollyanna Lenkic
20:12 - 20:46
get a coach, get a mentor, like, as quickly as you can. I, the advice I would give to my younger self is to develop competency and capabilities around leadership, how to work with a team, both for the systemic lens, which, you know, back then, I don't think it was a thing. And also, You know, there's a reason why we say know thyself, right? We quote, you know, is it Socrates or Plato or one of those greats?
Pollyanna Lenkic
20:47 - 21:04
Know who you are and how this ripples out into how you interact and impact others. Do the work. I would just grab myself and say, go do the work to be a better leader because I wasn't a great leader of people. I didn't have the expert skills.
Pollyanna Lenkic
21:04 - 21:28
I didn't have the experience. And my focus was, clients and candidates, you know, absolutely cared about them deeply, cared about my people, but just didn't have the skills and the resources to do that. So there was a missing chunk in how I showed up in that environment. And, you know, it had a cost.
Spencer Horn
21:29 - 22:00
That's what you were talking about earlier. McKinsey was measuring that cost of leadership that is not fully aware of their impact. And I'm just so curious as why do you think so many leaders are so focused on individual capacity and developing that rather than And it's not that that's wrong, yet they ignore the systemic part or the developing or managing the system as a whole. What's the gap?
Pollyanna Lenkic
22:02 - 22:24
Awareness. I mean, the leaders I work with are incredible people doing amazing things under intense pressure in a global economy that is really tough right now. So when you say leader, let's remember they're a human being. a human being under intense pressure who gets up every morning and wants to do their best.
Pollyanna Lenkic
22:24 - 22:44
There's very few people that wake up in the morning and go, what havoc can I create today? So they're caring humans that want to do their best. It's awareness. When I speak to leaders about shifting an approach to broaden their skills to look at a team from a systems lens, it's always a surprise.
Pollyanna Lenkic
22:44 - 22:54
They sort of go, this has changed. so much in such a short time. And I just wasn't aware of this. So it's an awareness piece.
Pollyanna Lenkic
22:54 - 23:04
It's not being offered as a as a solution. It's not being offered because there's not enough awareness around it. And I do believe that's changing.
Spencer Horn
23:14 - 23:18
I think I wake up in the morning saying, What habit can I cause today on?
Pollyanna Lenkic
23:18 - 23:27
There you go. That's a different conversation. And you know, can I add something? You know, we also have to know that self-awareness is great.
Pollyanna Lenkic
23:27 - 23:34
It's not enough to elevate a team from a systems lens. You know, that's why we need both.
Spencer Horn
23:35 - 23:55
I don't know that I've told this story on this podcast, but Pollyanna, you've heard me say it a couple of times now. Christian, you've heard about me talking about my experience at Rapport Leadership, where I became that CEO. I was the fourth CEO in five years. Long story short, I really worked on the individual capacity.
Spencer Horn
23:55 - 24:07
I was trying to be a good leader, and I was completely unaware of this idea, I've got to manage the system. And the system won, basically. It defeated me. And I left there 11 years ago.
Spencer Horn
24:07 - 24:26
And the funny story is, the guest we had, do you remember last month, Christian, that worked there? She worked there for about a month. And I asked her when I was interviewing for our podcast, And she was a thought leader that this company hired to help them. And she described the system that existed while she was working there.
Spencer Horn
24:26 - 24:52
It was the exact same system that I was fighting against 10 years earlier, 11 years earlier. And the system wants to survive. I can't remember the exact Drucker quote, but it's just like the system, however it is, and he said this back in the 90s, that whether the system's good or bad, it's fighting to perpetuate itself. And it does, and I just did not even, I didn't even know that was a thing.
Pollyanna Lenkic
24:53 - 25:02
And you know, I don't know, Spencer, Christian, if you see this play out, but when that happens, people start looking to individuals to go, right, who's the problem here?
Spencer Horn
25:02 - 25:03
Exactly.
Pollyanna Lenkic
25:03 - 25:06
Am I the problem? Are you the problem? Is this person here the problem? So...
Spencer Horn
25:07 - 25:10
It gets to the theme of our podcast today.
Christian Napier
25:14 - 25:33
And I would say on the opposite side, they will start to look for people to be the savior, right? Like this is the person that's gonna come in and solve all of our problems, right? That's what they were doing. So you mentioned your stint as a CEO, the fourth CEO in five years, what is the organization trying to do there?
Christian Napier
25:33 - 26:09
They're trying to find the person to come in and solve the thing, right? And when person after person comes in and can't get the thing solved, then I think you need to look at something a little bit differently. Pollyanna, I wanna kinda go back though a little bit to the question that I asked earlier, the advice that you would give to your former self. And one of the things that I wanted to ask about is, what you talked about in response to Spencer's question, which is most people want to do a good job.
Christian Napier
26:09 - 26:36
They're trying the best that they can. And so I am wondering, in this system mindset, how we can Hold people accountable while still giving them grace. I think about your situation, a young professional starting out this company. It's growing.
Christian Napier
26:36 - 26:51
And you're saying, hey, I could have been a better leader. And I'm like, well, sure. I mean, you were young. How do you go about giving yourself or giving other people grace while still holding them accountable?
Christian Napier
26:53 - 27:07
Acknowledging that people aren't perfect and we have journeys that we're going through and we're all in different places in those journeys and we're all learning different lessons at different points in time. I'm just really curious to hear your thoughts about that.
Pollyanna Lenkic
27:11 - 27:29
You're touching on something that's really incredibly important. And I've experienced this myself. I'm sure you have, too, and certainly with the leaders that we work with. Take shame out of the system, all that wonderful work that Brené Brown has brought to light with her research.
Pollyanna Lenkic
27:30 - 28:13
When I realized that I did do the work after I sold my company, it was too late for the people where I was. And the shame that I felt was so intense and it taught me so much about the ripple effect of that. It taught me about having compassion for others and a little bit further down the track, having compassion for myself. So how we set up, how we engage together as a team is what's happening in the system.
Pollyanna Lenkic
28:13 - 28:23
It's all that nuanced stuff. It's stuff that's not on a report. It's what you feel in the room when you're together. What are the norms?
Pollyanna Lenkic
28:23 - 28:29
What's allowed? What's OK here? What's not OK here? Is it OK to challenge?
Pollyanna Lenkic
28:30 - 28:49
Is it OK to make a mistake? How do we repair that? So take shame out of the system by not bringing it into the system. train and learn how to communicate in a constructive way that talks about the situation and doesn't demonize the person.
Pollyanna Lenkic
28:50 - 29:15
And we, when I say we, the great human race, inadvertently, when we're in discomfort, our languaging isn't always constructive because we're fighting through that fog of discomfort, right? So I talk about prepared spontaneity a lot. I know Spencer's heard me say this before. It comes from some wonderful person mentioned it, and I'm so sorry, I can't remember who that was.
Pollyanna Lenkic
29:16 - 29:41
But in my skydiving days, we prepared for the rotten stuff to happen. And you have three seconds to save your life. When you're in the air, it's all going to hell. And prepared spontaneity, how do I prepare myself for when I'm nervous, there's adrenaline, there's fear, there's cortisol, all that stuff happening physiologically.
Pollyanna Lenkic
29:41 - 30:10
How do we prepare ourselves for those situations? Again, it's multi-layered. How we prepare ourselves, how we work and train ourselves, how we build our own capability, how we bring calm into a system is really important. I was speaking to a leader from one of my academic clients, and they were very keen to understand my philosophy of leadership.
Pollyanna Lenkic
30:11 - 30:33
And this person was just incredible, you know, dean of leadership of a major university, who had so much knowledge, had so much respect for this human being, and still do. But for me, show up as your adult self. And that is the work, Christian, that I had to do. Learn how to step into my adult self.
Pollyanna Lenkic
30:33 - 30:58
You know, Dr. Eric Burns' ego states, parent, adult, child. How do you do the work so that the person that's driving that bus is the adult you, not your parent state and not your ego state? Spencer, hopefully you got the book I sent you, but I wrote about a case study in Leaders of Influence. The leader, we called him Ted because we're both Ted Lasso fans.
Pollyanna Lenkic
31:00 - 31:28
And in a great, caring, great human being, very self-aware on how I look after others, but completely unaware of how he was a bottleneck and really created so many challenges in the system. What it boiled down to is he felt like he had to be the one to fix, solve, and save everything. And looking at Dr. Eric Byrne's work, he was parenting his team. He wasn't leading them.
Pollyanna Lenkic
31:29 - 31:48
So the bottom line, do the work, show up as your adult self, and keep doing the work. Because just when we think we've done it, something happens, you go, hmm, I might have to practice that again. And prepared spontaneity helps you, when you're stuck, build that muscle memory.
Christian Napier
32:01 - 32:01
you
Spencer Horn
32:03 - 32:19
I love that idea of prepared spontaneity. I actually teach that when I'm talking to people who are learning professional speaking. So many of them want to just, well, I want to be authentic, right? I want to be able to speak from the heart.
Spencer Horn
32:19 - 32:52
And I'm like, when you're on a stage, you're not going to be able to do it unless you're prepared. And what the preparation allows you to do is actually be more present so that you can, once you've perfected it, then you can, then you can actually ad lib. But you're doing it from a place of preparation and total choice rather than just, you know, you've created, exactly, it's the muscle memory. I mean, that's what a lot of great sports, you know, athletes do is they put themselves under pressure.
Spencer Horn
32:53 - 33:22
purpose that champion mindset is I'm gonna put myself in in duress and distress and And then recover right so that when they get in a distress or duress situation there they're not flummoxed or overcome by it the audio, you know, the the the the opposing crowd isn't getting into their head the the the opposing player doesn't have the opportunity to get into their headspace. Because you've practiced that. It's very, very, very powerful.
Spencer Horn
33:23 - 33:38
All right, I know I'm monologuing, but how should leaders think about AI as part of the team, Pollyanna? Should it be part of the team that it operates in, or rather just an external tool that we use?
Pollyanna Lenkic
33:40 - 33:51
It's a tool. It's a tool that we use. And I think there's a real danger that we build a relationship with AI. Think about the prompts.
Pollyanna Lenkic
33:51 - 33:59
It's always validating. You're going, hey, well done you. I don't need to be told by a computer that I've done well, right? So stripping out all those things.
Spencer Horn
34:00 - 34:03
I think, Christian, you manage that, don't you? You tell it, stop doing that, right?
Christian Napier
34:05 - 34:13
Oh, the AI says what it's going to say. And it's easier said than done to get it to do what you want it to do all the time.
Pollyanna Lenkic
34:13 - 34:32
Absolutely. So we're learning. However, really interesting, there was a 2026 study that looked at AI teammates. So it was a working group conversations and they found were, like all the working group conversations they found were really sort of active, it was highly active.
Pollyanna Lenkic
34:33 - 34:51
I just have to remember who did the study now. The AI took everything literally. So there was one situation where there was a discussion, the word fire came up. And then the IAO took that literally and said that fire can't burn the moon.
Pollyanna Lenkic
34:51 - 35:04
So we need to be aware of this. AI can be incredibly helpful. I have clients in the world of coaching. Clients to prepare for difficult conversations or test perspective will use AI.
Pollyanna Lenkic
35:05 - 35:15
And there are coaching AI programs, all really useful. Can AI walk into a room and observe a team? Can AI walk into an organization and feel the culture? It can't.
Pollyanna Lenkic
35:17 - 35:26
So AI is a tool that we are using. It's not your best friend. It's not your mentor. It is a tool, and it can be an incredibly valuable tool.
Pollyanna Lenkic
35:26 - 35:42
It can research data. You've just got to check it to make sure it's correct. But it can't sit in the room and look at the tensions, what's working well. It can't look at where the team are getting towards some aha moments and to help expand that.
Pollyanna Lenkic
35:43 - 35:48
It can't do all of that. I'm not an AI expert. I'm still learning like the rest of us.
Spencer Horn
35:49 - 35:52
How do you think AI is impacting the system?
Pollyanna Lenkic
35:55 - 36:19
That's a really good question. I think we're still watching that play out. The biggest danger is that people I've spoken to, I've had conversations with people I know who are starting to use AI to make decisions for them. And they're not realizing that's happening until we have a conversation about it.
Pollyanna Lenkic
36:20 - 36:28
So get really clear that it's a tool. Would you have PowerPoint making decisions for you? Does anyone use PowerPoint anymore? Probably not.
Pollyanna Lenkic
36:30 - 36:41
It's a tool that we're using, but we as human beings, individually and together in a system, make the decisions that are right for what we're doing. And we use the data.
Spencer Horn
36:42 - 37:05
Here's what you said a minute ago, that individuals or leaders are using it to role play with or to ask questions about and to do preparation when normally they used to do that with maybe another team member. So how is that then impacting collaboration and team, just the team engagement? It seems like it would be more isolating of individuals.
Pollyanna Lenkic
37:07 - 37:36
I don't think it's an either-or situation. If you're nervous about a conversation that you need to have, and you're researching some frameworks on how to have a constructive conversation, and then use that as part of your preparation to have that conversation coming into, whether it's an individual or the team, that can be useful. If you're using it to make decisions, that's less useful. I think that's heading towards a bit of a red danger zone.
Pollyanna Lenkic
37:37 - 38:01
how a team, I've not experienced a team getting on AI and going, what should we do as a team? I think understanding the distinctions of what we're using this tool for and then ensuring that we come together and we have a conversation together about what's important. What do we need to talk about right now that's impacting performance? What do we need to talk about right now that's impacting engagement?
Pollyanna Lenkic
38:01 - 38:09
What are the challenges that we're having that we're not surfacing so that they can become shared challenges rather than one person carrying them alone?
Christian Napier
38:11 - 39:05
I would say, based on my experience, one of the things that's really interesting, I think it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out, is how AI is evolving people's roles in the team. I work a lot with software engineers. We recently did a project, a study in our own organization to see the impact AI was having on software engineering. What we saw over a four-week span of time is that over 90% of the engineers who participated in this little study of ours saw their role changing from more of a task executor to more of an orchestrator or a director.
Christian Napier
39:07 - 39:46
And there was some concern, I think, from me, quite honestly, about the impact that would have on people seeing their roles kind of change over a short period of time. But one of the things that we saw is that over 80% of the people who participated in this reported that they had higher confidence in their ability to deliver more complex projects by using this technology. So I think that there are interesting impacts. And we're still early days with this stuff.
Christian Napier
39:47 - 40:20
And it's going to take us a bit of time to sort it out. But I do think that as leaders, we need to start thinking about how this technology is impacting our workforce. When it comes to decision making, we'll say like a custom GPT, right? If I have something where I know I need to make a proposal to executives to do something, right?
Christian Napier
40:22 - 40:43
I have a framework in there that will say, okay, give me the arguments for this thing. Give me the arguments against this thing. Let's weigh these arguments against each other and see who comes out on top. And I find that Sometimes it's right, and sometimes I disagree with its conclusions.
Christian Napier
40:44 - 41:32
And I think the most important thing that we need to do, and I apologize, I'm the one monologuing here now, is ensure that our teams still can think critically. And we just don't take at face value what the AI is giving to us, but we- And allow those skills to atrophy if we rely on it. Yeah, we look at how we can still maintain some critical thinking in that whole process, and then ultimately take accountability for what's going on. So that was a very long monologue there, and I apologize, Pollyanna, for that, but it actually begs the question, from your perspective, because I work primarily with one organization in my day job.
Christian Napier
41:32 - 41:42
As you're working with lots of organizations, what impacts are you seeing AI having for good or ill?
Pollyanna Lenkic
41:43 - 42:05
Look, it's early days, as you mentioned, and I think we're speaking to the same point that do not have AI making the decisions for you. AI can't have the discussions for you. It can help you prepare. There's a Swiss business school called IMD and they built her AI coaching tool and they use it with 167 executives.
Pollyanna Lenkic
42:05 - 42:20
And I found that more than half gave feedback that landed in with researchers what they call the genius zone. I did help them, exactly what you're speaking to. It helped expand thinking, what might I have missed? Where am I, where's the gap?
Pollyanna Lenkic
42:20 - 42:43
And then you take that information, that data and put some critical thinking behind it. rather than just accepting and going, there's my report, or there's, here's how I'm going to leave that meeting. You can challenge assumptions before diving into a hard conversation. You know, it's great to strip some emotion out sometimes, you know, help as part of that, let's take the heat out of the situation.
Pollyanna Lenkic
42:43 - 43:10
Better to rant on ChatGPT than, you know, to your boss or your partner. But, so use that way, you know, stripping out that emotional charge, getting perspective, really useful. But if you think about coaching or any type of human interaction, whether it's coaching, whether it's the conversation we're having today, whether it's team coaching, whether it's consulting, it's relational. And that's a human trait.
Pollyanna Lenkic
43:11 - 43:39
It's not an AI trait. So we're learning how do we use a tool to help us connect with others, how do we use a tool to help us be more efficient so that we have space to connect with others? Let's reduce some of the drudge, the admin, so that I have more time to have a conversation with you. AI is not going to replace the relational.
Pollyanna Lenkic
43:40 - 43:43
And the danger zone is when we think it can.
Spencer Horn
43:55 - 44:09
How do you get the leadership team to accept that they might be the problem, the actual problem? The system that they built, this leadership team, is the actual problem.
Pollyanna Lenkic
44:11 - 44:39
Well, first, we all know, we, the humans, us, we know that we can't make anyone do anything. All we can do is present the information, the data, the observations, hold up the mirror, and ask them how they want to be with that. It's incredibly powerful when you feedback what you're observing when a team is working together. And there's lots of different ways of doing that, as you know.
Pollyanna Lenkic
44:39 - 45:00
There's team diagnostics. There are watching a team in action. When I work with teams, part of that process is I'll often say, let me sit in on a meeting, just fly on the wall, you'll forget I'm here. And then afterwards, or halfway through, or three quarters way through, name what is actually happening in the room.
Pollyanna Lenkic
45:01 - 45:11
That's it, you just have to name it. And now what does this team, A, how do you want to be with this, individually and collectively? And what do you want to do about it?
Spencer Horn
45:12 - 45:42
See, that is the key is, you know, someone persuaded against their will is of the same opinion still, right? So if you come in and say, here's your problem, but if you hold it up and say, how does this look to you? Then they become aware, and I love the answer because that's exactly right, is you hold up the mirror and you point out, this is what I'm seeing. And then they're like, because a lot of times they're not aware of their own teamness, right?
Spencer Horn
45:42 - 45:53
They're not aware of their own system that they've created. They've just been operating in it. They don't see it. And so when you point it out, they're like, oh yeah, we do do that, don't we?
Spencer Horn
45:53 - 46:01
All of a sudden it's like, that's not good. But then they can decide because you said, well, here's what's happening. Is that helping or hurting?
Pollyanna Lenkic
46:03 - 46:21
Yeah, and how's this working for you? If it's working great and you're getting fabulous outcomes, keep doing it. If it's not achieving the outcomes that you desire, both from how you work together, how the results you get together, then let's look at what changes need to happen.
Spencer Horn
46:21 - 46:31
Hey, we have a listener who has a comment. I'm going to throw it up here. It says, Laura Alexander says, never be afraid of listening to good employees and customers.
Christian Napier
46:32 - 46:32
Yeah.
Pollyanna Lenkic
46:34 - 46:34
Absolutely, Laura.
Spencer Horn
46:34 - 46:36
Thank you for listening, Laura.
Pollyanna Lenkic
46:38 - 47:01
Absolutely. And Laura, that speaks to what Spencer spoke about just a moment ago. is that when you're in the system, when you're in it, it's sometimes hard to see what's going on. So taking that step back, speaking to your customers, speaking to other team members, speaking to people outside of your team, hey, how are we a team that's a nightmare to work with?
Pollyanna Lenkic
47:01 - 47:19
Great question to ask, right? What are you not seeing? So absolutely spot on. Also new team members coming into a team, there's a window there that is golden because they haven't yet inducted into the system, right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
47:19 - 47:38
You're not immersed in the system yet. So you see it for what it is. So any leader or team member joining a new team get really conscious about what am I going to induct into and what am I not? What am I not going to be a part of endorsing in this team, in this system?
Pollyanna Lenkic
47:38 - 47:48
get really clear on that. It's not just turning up and having cupcakes, it's getting really clear about what am I observing and what's my role in that.
Christian Napier
47:51 - 48:15
You brought up a really interesting point. It's got me thinking here, Pollyanna. And it's the point of, is the problem worth solving, right? So, you know, typically we get in a situation where the actual performance of an organization is not equal to the expected performance of the organization.
Christian Napier
48:15 - 48:28
So we see there's a gap. Okay, we have a gap. But oftentimes we jump to, let's fix it. without first assessing, is this thing worth fixing?
Christian Napier
48:28 - 49:01
Is it worth the investment? Is it worth the risk? I'm curious how you go about working with organizations to answer that question, because Sometimes organizations will just say, well, it is what it is, and I'm not going to do anything about it. Sometimes they'll spend tens of millions of dollars on change management consultants and things like this to go in and do something that doesn't deliver any real return.
Christian Napier
49:03 - 49:16
Or sometimes they'll make a small investment that makes a huge difference. So I'm trying to figure out, how would you help an organization answer the question? I have a problem, but is it worth fixing?
Pollyanna Lenkic
49:19 - 49:36
That's a really big question. And you work with the organization, maybe the ELT. What are the problems that we're focusing on? And that is more than a one answer.
Pollyanna Lenkic
49:36 - 49:51
That is very, very layered and nuanced. There's a couple of things that come to mind. A very wise friend of mine once gave me some feedback and said, not every thought has to be an outside voice, right? And so it also speaks to that.
Pollyanna Lenkic
49:51 - 50:00
Where are we wasting time? Where are we wasting time and energy? I mean, everyone looks at time management, it's actually energy management, right? Where are we expending our energy?
Pollyanna Lenkic
50:01 - 50:11
And is that best use of our time and energy? And getting to the heart of those challenges. So what are all those challenges? Lay them all out.
Pollyanna Lenkic
50:12 - 50:25
Actually, what's at the heart of it? If you think about health and well-being, symptoms, we can't treat symptoms for long-term health. We have to go down to the core, down to the immune system. So what's actually at the heart of this conversation?
Pollyanna Lenkic
50:25 - 50:34
Why is this conversation surfacing now? And what are the real issues that we're looking to solve? Let's start there so that everything else becomes a domino effect.
Spencer Horn
50:36 - 50:50
Yeah, I mean, I think you were kind of going down the sunk cost fallacy, right, Christian? We've spent money, and we just keep going after it at some point. What's the value? But I love your answer, Pollyanna.
Spencer Horn
50:50 - 51:36
This is great. So really, the focus of today is that 80% of team performance comes from the system and not just the individuals on it. How can leaders listening to this go forward, take action, and avoid the mistakes that you made early in your career and I made more recently in my career, though I didn't You know, I looked at that and I, you know, I felt very frustrated with that. And for a while I blamed, you know, I blamed the, you know, the what the system and instead of taking personal responsibility.
Spencer Horn
51:37 - 51:55
And that's, you know, I needed to say, okay, I made a mistake. And if I could do it again, I would do it definitely differently. But how can leaders listening to this do it the right way? I mean, how do they make the changes that they need to have?
Spencer Horn
51:55 - 51:58
And then we've got another comment that I want to throw up after you're here.
Pollyanna Lenkic
52:00 - 52:24
First of all, I'd probably haggle you on the right way. There is no right way. Be well-intentioned. ask yourself really honestly what's my intention here because let's face it we're not all always in a state of grace and angelic mode sometimes you know we have to you've got to be honest with yourself right so look in the mirror and what is my intention here and
Pollyanna Lenkic
52:24 - 52:49
be real you know about that get clear know yourself do the work keep doing the work and then keep doing the work And then for leaders who are listening to this saying, well, what does this mean for me when I go and meet my team tomorrow? When you're thinking about all the things that frustrate you, ask you, how am I a part of this? How do I enable this? How am I a part of the problem?
Pollyanna Lenkic
52:49 - 53:10
Again, get real about that, be honest. Then when you're looking to support others, also whatever you're complaining about, whatever you can't be with. I remember when I walked into my first coaching training, They say, what you can't be within yourself is what you can't be within others. Ouch, that one was a bit of a moment.
Pollyanna Lenkic
53:11 - 53:29
So that can be helpful. This is not for the faint of heart, right? It takes courage. And so find when you're looking at your team members and you're thinking, here's the support that this person or here are the gaps, then also ask, change the question.
Pollyanna Lenkic
53:30 - 53:55
start to ask, what does the team need to develop? What is happening for the team collectively that's keeping it stuck? Or, wow, this team is operating in such a high capacity right now. What's the acknowledgment that I can give to everybody in that room that is more than just an acknowledgment to one individual person?
Pollyanna Lenkic
53:56 - 54:06
So start playing with those layers. Do three concentric circles and go self. That's the conversation with myself in the mirror. Others, how do I support others?
Pollyanna Lenkic
54:07 - 54:12
What's going on for them? And system. What's going on in the system? So just draw those three concentric circles.
Pollyanna Lenkic
54:12 - 54:22
Get clear on it. And then when you walk into the room with your team, come from that systems lens and ask questions. What's happening here collectively?
Spencer Horn
54:23 - 54:44
I love that. And I think our listener has keyed into something you said earlier about just managing the energy. And so she's talking about how she increased profit by restructuring employee hours to assist those employees, you know, with more days away from work. And so, again, it's all about managing the energy, right, and not necessarily time.
Spencer Horn
54:45 - 55:05
How do we get them to be more productive? And so I love this comment, Laura, is that, you know, you're trying to find ways to increase the energy and the engagement. Ultimately, we want the system to have greater energy. Well, then the individuals on that system need to come with more energy and it begins to shift, right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
55:06 - 55:32
Yeah, and you know, Laura, I love, I think Laura's my new best friend on this podcast. What's important about what Laura is bringing into this conversation is you cannot function on a depleted tank. So therefore, if we're running hard always, well, as you know, I've said this to you before, Spencer, the local ER at your hospital is not a meeting room. When you're in there, you've tipped over, right?
Pollyanna Lenkic
55:32 - 55:48
So therefore, how do we manage our energy levels, both individually and together? How do we create space in our systems? How do we create space for ourselves, again, in those three concentric circles? What do we give permission for?
Pollyanna Lenkic
55:48 - 56:04
I worked with a, all my clients are beautiful, as you know. I had a beautiful client that I was working with, and he was saying, look, I'm always telling my team not to work such long hours, because everyone's depleted and exhausted. I'm like, who's the first? He goes, and I'm always in first, so that when they come in, they know I'm here.
Pollyanna Lenkic
56:04 - 56:13
OK, and I'm always out last. OK, so here's what I want you to do today. I want you to leave at 536 o'clock. because they were all working till 10, 11 o'clock at night.
Pollyanna Lenkic
56:13 - 56:40
And then hide in the local cafe and just see how long it takes for that building to empty once you're out of the building, right? So permission, there wasn't, the words were there. Hey, everyone don't work long hours, but you know, boss is in from the morning right till the end. Again, well-intentioned, but not creating space for ourselves means there's no permission for anybody else to have that space.
Pollyanna Lenkic
56:40 - 56:52
So have conversations around what does a healthy team look like? Unhealthy humans in an unhealthy system are not producing results if you need to make it.
Spencer Horn
56:52 - 56:53
And meeting at the AR.
Pollyanna Lenkic
56:54 - 56:58
You know, however, it's not sustainable.
Spencer Horn
56:58 - 57:00
That's right. That's when the meetings start in the AR.
Christian Napier
57:02 - 57:39
So my last question, because we're coming up against it here, Spencer, but my last question, just kind of drifting or drafting, I should say, off of what Laura was saying in her comment and what you were saying here, is that, you know, making these systemic changes doesn't necessarily mean like spending tens of millions of dollars. Some things can be very simple, like changing a person's work week. You know, we had a situation similar where I had engineers who were struggling to meet, you know, deadlines and get everything done in their sprints and so on and so forth.
Christian Napier
57:40 - 57:55
So I asked them, well, what's going on? They said, well, it's hard. It's hard for us to get into a flow because we get invited to so many meetings, and it just interrupts the work that we're doing. So I'm like, okay, well, what if we did this?
Christian Napier
57:56 - 58:12
What if we had Tuesday and Thursday is like meeting day, and we're gonna put all the meetings there. And Monday, Wednesday, Friday is heads down, you guys do your thing. And that ended up making a really big difference. It made them a lot happier, because they weren't getting interrupted all the time.
Christian Napier
58:13 - 58:26
And we were able to hit more deadline. And that was a simple thing. And so my last question to you is, what are the two or three quick fixes? You can do this.
Christian Napier
58:26 - 58:41
It doesn't cost any money. And this can have a real impact on your system and on the team performance. Are there just little suggestions that can help a leader and a team get a quick win?
Pollyanna Lenkic
58:44 - 58:54
Let's go back to Laura's suggestion. Talk to people who interact with your team and yourself. Great place to have a conversation. What's it like?
Pollyanna Lenkic
58:54 - 59:17
And when you do this, no justifying, no fixing it. You just say thank you and walk away, exit stage left, and then have a conversation with the team about what this means. You may go back to that person once you've made changes, But no justifying, otherwise you'll negate everything that you've said. Ask yourself, how am I a leader that is the bottleneck?
Pollyanna Lenkic
59:18 - 59:27
Where am I the problem? Know that you don't mean to be. Have that conversation with yourself. You have hired a team of remarkable people.
Pollyanna Lenkic
59:27 - 59:35
Use the talent in the team. So ask a question and then zip it. What's that great coaching framework? Wait, why am I talking?
Pollyanna Lenkic
59:35 - 59:54
Just ask the question and then be quiet for a moment and listen to the answer. You know, again, the talent is in your team. It doesn't have to sit just on the leader's shoulders. Use the talent in your team to help decide how that team solves and moves forward.
Spencer Horn
59:57 - 59:59
Oh, hold on. Hold on.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:00:08 - 1:00:10
And of course, there's always more, but I know we're running out of time.
Spencer Horn
1:00:10 - 1:00:27
Yes. So, are we ready, Christian, for a final lightning round? Okay, so, Pollyanna, these are just like very quick, short answers, one word, one sentence. Okay, so I've got several of them, so just as fast as you can rattle these off.
Spencer Horn
1:00:28 - 1:00:31
Systems thinking or emotional intelligence? Pick one.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:00:33 - 1:00:37
I want both, systems thinking. Both, no, I want both.
Spencer Horn
1:00:38 - 1:00:48
One word, what's most leadership training missing? The system. Reorg or rebuild, which is harder to get right? Both.
Spencer Horn
1:00:50 - 1:00:54
Fill in the blank, the biggest lie leaders tell themselves about their team is?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:00:55 - 1:00:56
I'm the solution.
Spencer Horn
1:00:57 - 1:01:11
Yeah. I mean, I think you were intimating that there really is capacity in the team to become effective, and they want to be, don't they? We have that assumption when we work with those teams is that they can heal themselves.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:01:12 - 1:01:22
And they're not broken. No, that's right. They're not broken. Yes, there are those one, two percenters where you look at a team and go, this team won't survive without a restructure.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:01:23 - 1:01:30
However, nothing to be fixed. be evolved is probably better language.
Spencer Horn
1:01:30 - 1:01:35
One word, let's see, AI, threat to teams or tool for teams?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:01:37 - 1:01:39
It's a tool, not a person.
Spencer Horn
1:01:40 - 1:01:43
One word to describe a team stuck in a broken system?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:01:46 - 1:01:53
How did you create this system? And what are you willing to do to move it forward?
Spencer Horn
1:01:54 - 1:01:56
Okay, in Australia they have more than one word.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:01:57 - 1:02:01
Sorry, I can't do one word yet. I'm sorry.
Spencer Horn
1:02:02 - 1:02:10
I'm messing with you, Pollyanna, I know. Individual coaching or system redesign, which moves the needle faster?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:02:11 - 1:02:12
Depends on the situation.
Spencer Horn
1:02:14 - 1:02:22
But the needle for the system is, you need both. Finish the sentence. Great teamwork happens when?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:02:24 - 1:02:26
you work together and use all the resources you have.
Spencer Horn
1:02:27 - 1:02:30
What's one leadership buzzword you'd retire for good?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:02:30 - 1:02:38
Oh, that hero leadership, you know. I don't know what the word is. It's early.
Spencer Horn
1:02:39 - 1:02:48
Yeah. It's kind of what we were talking about when we started with soccer, right? With relying on the star player. The star.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:02:48 - 1:02:49
The star mentality, yes. Oh gosh, yeah, the stars.
Spencer Horn
1:02:51 - 1:03:01
If you could fix one thing in every organization overnight, what would it be? This one you can have as many words as you want, my friend.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:03:02 - 1:03:26
If I could fix anything in an organization, I would get people into a room to have the conversation that needs to happen. Let's start there. Let's get together and connect as human beings first, who are there to solve challenges and to understand that They are not the challenges. The challenges are being created by the existing frameworks.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:03:27 - 1:03:35
And guess what? You can be the architect of that. You can be the architect of the framework that you want to scaffold from.
Spencer Horn
1:03:36 - 1:03:49
Yeah, thank you. And Laura, I see your comment, but thank you so much for listening in. She made another comment, but we'll just look at that on LinkedIn or social media later. Christian, bring us home.
Christian Napier
1:03:51 - 1:04:09
Well, it's been a fascinating conversation. Pollyanna, we're so grateful to you for your time and your willingness to share your expertise with us. If viewers and listeners want to connect with you, they want to learn more about what you do and how you could potentially help them, what's the best way for them to reach out?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:04:10 - 1:04:24
Via email, and I know you've got my email there. via LinkedIn, if you're watching this on LinkedIn, just reach out. Yeah, I'd love to have a conversation. And of course, you've got, you know, awesome Spencer and Christian in the US too.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:04:24 - 1:04:26
So, you know, also reach out to them.
Spencer Horn
1:04:26 - 1:04:46
You know, we have offered from Team Coaching International what's called the Team Leader View or the Team Diagnostic. And we will offer that to anybody listening to this. And here's the thing. If you reach out and ask for this Team Leader View survey, you'll get Pollyanna.
Spencer Horn
1:04:47 - 1:05:07
Would you be interested in talking to anybody about their organization with the Team Leader View if anyone wants it? Oh, I got to put you back on because I'm totally, they couldn't hear you. I know I put you on the spot, but I know you do that. If there's anybody interested in that, would you?
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:05:08 - 1:05:24
Absolutely. It's such an incredible baseline to look at how is my leadership impacting the system and what am I helping to create? So I would be absolutely delighted to.
Spencer Horn
1:05:25 - 1:05:42
If you just go on our notes or anything like that, or you apply for it, just say Pollyanna, and I'll make sure that Pollyanna gets that, and then she can follow up with you. Anything you want to share about your book? I mean, we'd love to be able to put a link in the notes or anything like that.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:05:42 - 1:05:46
Oh my gosh, we got Amazon number one in three categories. Yay!
Spencer Horn
1:05:47 - 1:05:48
Tell us about it. Here, let me put it so everyone can see.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:05:48 - 1:05:56
Oh, there you go. There we go. Yes, so please, there's lots of time to read it and have a look. The camera's doing weird things.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:05:56 - 1:06:09
It goes that way. Leaders of Influence with some incredible authors. Just a wonderful project with fabulous people. And we're very excited that we're up for a whole bunch of book awards.
Pollyanna Lenkic
1:06:10 - 1:06:17
And it's a collection of insights for leaders from a whole bunch of fabulous people.
Spencer Horn
1:06:19 - 1:06:23
Excellent. Well, we'll make that available on that Amazon link on show notes.
Christian Napier
1:06:25 - 1:06:41
Yeah, so get all that information into the show notes so that people can connect with you. And again, Pollyanna, thank you so much for spending a wonderful hour plus with us. We went into extra time. We had stoppage time, I guess here, six minutes of stoppage time.
Christian Napier
1:06:41 - 1:06:48
Yeah, with the World Cup theme. But it was well worth it. Well worth it. And listeners and viewers, thank you for chiming in today.
Christian Napier
1:06:48 - 1:06:52
We appreciate you. Please like and subscribe to our podcast. We'll catch you again soon.
Spencer Horn
1:06:53 - 1:06:54
Hang on for just a moment, Pollyanna.