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No state has fallen further than Kansas in America’s Health Rankings. We used to be 8th in 1991.
Why did we slip so far down in the rankings? The answer might surprise you; it’s based on a leadership challenge.
At the Kansas Health Foundation, our bold vision is to make Kansas the healthiest state in the nation and to do so, this movement must be powered by Kansans in positions of authority and influence to shift Health outcomes.
Starting with the launch of the 2025 publication, Leading Health, written by President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, Ed O’Malley, this podcast aims to break down key concepts of this leadership challenge and actionable ways that we can work together to make a real impact on Health in Kansas.
In each episode, Ed O’Malley, and Senior Advisor at Kansas Health Foundation, Susan Kang, will highlight a chapter in the book and discuss with Kansans who are actively engaged in expanding our definition of Health.
Leading Health is an invitation to move the needle on Health in Kansas, and we invite you to join us in leading the way.
Ep11
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Why Authority Isn’t Enough
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[00:00:00]
Ed O'Malley: Alright, welcome back to episode 11 of the Leading Health Podcast, Susan. Today we're talking about chapter 11 in the book, which is the final chapter in part two. Remember [00:01:00] part one of the book. Is setting up kind of the slide of health in Kansas explaining America's health ranking, talking about the 30,000, right.
And ending with, you know, what leading the nation of health really could be A North star, should be a North Star. Part two of the book is surprise. It's not a health challenge. It's a leadership challenge. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And today we end that section of the book. We'll talk about part three next time.
And this chapter, you know, I couldn't write this book and not include a little chapter on the difference between leadership and authority. Mm-hmm. And it's a little wonky.
Susan Kang: Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I, and I, I, I, of course I read that chapter.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Susan Kang: I, I,
Ed O'Malley: I sure hope so.
Susan Kang: Yeah. I totally did. Totally did.
Leadership vs. Authority: Fancy Titles Don’t Mobilize People
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Susan Kang: Really loved it, and I think, it's actually worth really digging a little bit into, the difference between exercising leadership and being in a position of authority.
Ed O'Malley: Well, it's a little bit of a weird kind of juxtaposition that we're [00:02:00] asking our listeners and our readers to kind of think about with us a little journey we're asking them to go on.
But yes, the 30,000. Our critical members of Kansas who hold outsized authority. I use that word a lot in the book, like the 30,000 hold key roles of authority. Mm-hmm. You know, I hate the word leader. Right, right. So I do, I like talking about the exercise of leadership, which is an. It's something that happens and I like talking about people who have authority, and to me, those being two different things is really, really important because what we know is just having authority.
Doesn't mean we're actually exercising leadership.
Susan Kang: Right,
Ed O'Malley: right. We've all seen plenty of people who have a fancy title, but they don't lead, they don't mobilize people to make progress on tough challenges. They just kind of exist in the role.
Susan Kang: Right. And I think because of the title that they have.
People [00:03:00] automatically think that they have the ability to lead. Yeah. And so I think that's what's interesting about this chapter.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Susan Kang: Yeah. To, to, to dispel that notion.
Ed O'Malley: Right. And what we're trying to help do in this chapter is to help people understand that, hey, number one, leadership and authority are two different things.
Yep. Okay. And when.
The 30,000’s Role: Necessary but Insufficient to Climb the Health Rankings
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Ed O'Malley: It comes to a daunting challenge, like helping climb the health rankings, helping turn around the slide of health in Kansas. Yes, yes. We need people in authority to understand, number one, the limitations of their role. Mm-hmm. But also to understand, but what is it we need? You to do.
Teresa Lovelady: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: You know, like you can't do it all. The title of this chapter is authority isn't enough. Right? Authority isn't enough. We cannot climb the health rankings just with the 30,000 doing their work. But we also cannot climb the health rankings without the 30,000 doing their part, like Right. Their part is necessary [00:04:00] and insufficient.
So this chapter is trying to help explain that in some ways it sets up part three, which part three is a lot about how people in authority, the mindsets they need to have to help others. Exercise leadership on this challenge. Yeah. But first we gotta nail the difference between leadership and authority.
And that's what we're gonna be doing today.
Guest Returns: Teresa Lovelady on Dual Citizenship (30,000 + ALICE)
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Ed O'Malley: We have the wonderful Teresa Lovelady back with us now, listeners will remember, she was with us on episode two when we are talking about the 30,000.
Susan Kang: Yeah. And that was a great episode around the Alice population.
Ed O'Malley: It was great.
And I love, I loved how she talked about how she has dual citizenship.
Susan Kang: Yeah. You
Ed O'Malley: know, she's she's a member of the 30,000 and she will, she said, I'll forever be a member of Alice. Yeah. Yeah. She, she first engaged with Healthcorp at the clinic that she serves as president and CEO of as a patient.
Yeah. And as a member of the Alice population. Yeah. So we're excited to have her back with us here to dive into this chapter, to explore the difference between leadership and authority [00:05:00] and why that difference matters so much. For those who want to make a difference on closing the health gap.
Susan Kang: Yay. Super excited about this.
Ed O'Malley: All right, let's do it. Alright, Teresa, awesome to have you back with us. Thank you for joining us. Episode two is fun, episode 11. It's gonna be fantastic. Yes. And it's awesome to have you back.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes. Well I am. Happy and excited to be back and again, the work you guys are doing here with the Kansas Health Foundation and casting this huge vision of being number one.
I mean, who doesn't wanna be number one? So I'm honored and, and just really excited to be here today.
Susan Kang: Well, it's really happy to have you back. Thank you.
Ed O'Malley: Well, let's get into the conversation. Susan, how should we tee this up? You know, this is kind of a nebulous concept, leadership and authority. It's a little wonky.
So we gotta help our listeners know we're gonna try to make it as concrete as possible, but it's a provocative chapter. It's a big idea. Mm-hmm. So, Susan, how should we tee it up?
Making It Concrete: Teresa’s Definition of Exercising Leadership
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Susan Kang: Well, so what I was wondering was there, like, can you describe like [00:06:00] an experience or a time when you felt like that distinction between having authority and exercising leadership?
Sort of became clear for you the difference between those two concepts?
Teresa Lovelady: yeah. So when you think about the role of a leader, right? Yeah. So it's a position. So you sit in that seat and you sometimes it could be lonely because you're sitting there going, okay, what do I do and how do I manage all these different things coming at you.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Teresa Lovelady: Exercising leadership to me. So you're in a position of authority then, but when you start to exercise leadership, you take all of that that's coming towards you and you try to make sense of it and do something about it.
Ed O'Malley: Mm-hmm.
Teresa Lovelady: So a lot of times I think especially those that are in the 30,000, we're in these positions where it's like, I am in this position of power and how do I, how, how do I wail?
How do I yield my power out there? Instead of going, okay, how do I. Take this role and use it in a way that I can help. Move change or help initiate [00:07:00] change. Improve something, yeah. To
Susan Kang: mobilize others, right? Yes. To make progress on the thing that's most daunting to them. Yeah.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes. ' cause leadership doesn't have to be lonely.
COVID as a Case Study: Sharing Leadership Beyond Positions of Power
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Teresa Lovelady: I mean, if you're inspirational and you're working to help engage others, and like you said in the process I think about an example during COVID, right? This was a time where there was so much going on. There was like, I mean, there was big hn little H at. And going at it. Yeah. All the same time and health all the same time.
Everything so hard, just clashing. Yeah. And as the leader of a nonprofit health center where we knew our patients like COVID was not gonna eradicate or get rid of cancer and all the other issues we were having with serving kind of our underserved or uninsured or the Alice population. Right. Yeah. And so it was, it was really tough to just.
Be in that position with all of that coming at you and all of your patients and trying to work through and figure out what do you do next? And then to be able to reach out in the community and start engaging others and, sharing the leadership role, right? Mm-hmm. So as a leader, you to exercise leadership, you have to share [00:08:00] with other leaders and engage them into the process.
And then I think about how we needed so much leadership. Hip exercising of leadership during COVID mm-hmm. To literally save the lives of not only our neighbors, our peers, our babies, our seniors. Like it took a lot of us exercising leadership. Yeah. And so not just those that were in positions of authority, but those individuals who literally from any position they were in.
They had to actively engage in leadership.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah, true. I love that you're bringing up COVID because it's, it's a great example and I remember. Feeling and, and you know, listeners and viewers know that I used to be at the Kansas Leadership Center Yes. And served as the founding president and CEO there.
Susan used to be the vice chair of the board at the Kansas Leadership Center. Mm-hmm. And Teresa, I know you've gone through courses Yes. At the Kansas Leadership Center. And so this idea of course of leadership and authority being two different things is a key kind of part of the KLC framework.
What We Need From Authority: Certainty of Process & Casting Vision
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Ed O'Malley: And I love that you brought up COVID because I [00:09:00] remember back then spending a lot of time thinking about.
Like what do we need from authority? Right, right now during COVID, and I think one of the mistakes people made during COVID. Who are in authority is they thought what they were supposed to do was provide certainty of outcomes, and they couldn't, right. They would say things like, oh, we'll be back in school by the kids will be back in school by next month.
Or they, and what I remember feeling was that what we needed back then. Were people in authority to realize that what we need from them is to provide certainty of the process. Yes. We're gonna use mm-hmm. To try to get through this. Like you know, we are gonna update you every Friday at two o'clock about the status of schools.
Right. We are gonna like, what can people count on? I think when it comes to helping. Kansas lead the nation in health. There's like a similar question, like [00:10:00] what is it we need from those in authority, right? What do we need from them that only they can do? Right? Like in COVID, only people in authority could say, here's the process by which we are gonna communicate about this challenge.
Yes. And update you on this challenge and how we're gonna try to work through it. Like that's a role for authority with this. Challenge of improving the health of Kansas and climbing the rankings. It's like we need people in authority to know there are certain things that only you can do.
Teresa Lovelady: Right.
Ed O'Malley: Like casting vision, saying the Alice population matters.
Teresa Lovelady: Right,
Ed O'Malley: right. There's certain things that only those in authority can do, and if they don't do them, it's gonna be really, really hard. Now there's other stuff we need others to do. Right. But does that resonate at all with either of you? What are you thinking about?
Teresa Lovelady: Oh yeah.
Authority as Resource Broker: Clearing Paths, Connecting Resources, Setting Policy
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Teresa Lovelady: I mean, as a person that's in authority, you're kind of a resource broker, right?
Yeah. You, you're able to clear the path, bring in the resources needed so that others could do the work that has to be [00:11:00] done, and sometimes acknowledging the role that you, you play. I know sometimes being, some people may ask, am I one of the 30,000? But then are you one of the 30,000 that has a role of authority that, are you a resource resource broker or are you someone that helps set policy or like.
In that 30,000. Mm-hmm. What's the role? What's, where's the authority? And then where's the exercising leadership In that and, and then how do you own that part, in that subset of that 30,000 to be able to help move the needle or improve our rankings in a way that's meaningful and it does the least amount of harm while we're going through the process.
Yeah. Yeah.
Susan Kang: Yeah. I mean, I think as we're looking to become number one in the nation, I think it is critically important to have the people in positions of authority on board, right. To exercise authority and to be a resource broker in different, you know whatever the role may be. Right? And it could be a resource broker, it could be a policymaker, it could be, you know, many different concepts and [00:12:00] positions.
Yes. But, so it's, it's authority and mm-hmm. It's authority and. The ability to then exercise leadership around the thing that we want to make progress on. And for us it's about, you know, trying to get to be number one in the nation,
Ed O'Malley: you know, and resource broker. That's a great example. Like what one of the roles of somebody in authority.
Is to be a resource broker to, in essence say I'm gonna connect you, Teresa, to this resource. Yes. I'm gonna connect you to this resource. Like that is a discreet role that people in authority, often because of the lens they look. Through, because of what they get connected to, they have the opportunity to do that.
Mm-hmm. Yes. And are they doing it consciously? Are they doing it well? Is a key question.
No Magic Wand: Wicked Problems, Limited Authority, and Working Together
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Ed O'Malley: I want to connect to a couple things here in the book real quick. One of 'em is that we make it clear that authority isn't enough. Yeah. In this book, like the 30,000 have to do their part, but their part is insufficient.
So the chapter talks about that [00:13:00] a lot. We also say that no one person or one organization has enough authority to solve the health gap in Kansas. Right? So it's, it's one of the, those wicked challenges. One of those adaptive challenges where even somebody like a governor who has so much authority in Kansas.
Her authority isn't sufficient. It's not enough. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. So we need lots of people kind of doing their part, those who have authority and those who don't. More on those who don't have authority later in our podcast series. But one thing I just wanna read real quick and then get back to our conversation
Susan Kang: is, so Ed, tell me what chapter you're, what page you're on.
'cause I actually have the book with me. Oh,
Ed O'Malley: wonderful. I'm on page one 10 right now. In the chapter. Thanks. And it, there's a, a paragraph where we say Every county health officer. Whether a Republican or a Democrat, a conservative or a progressive, knows initiatives that if [00:14:00] implemented, would improve capital H Health in their counties.
But none have enough authority alone to enact those initiatives. And that's one of the things that I want people in authority to think about is your authority gives you. Some ability, but not enough just to wave a magic wand and improve these types of things. Right,
Teresa Lovelady: right. It's kind of like I know we're in Kansas, you know, wizard of Oz.
We can't click our heels and make this go away. 'cause if it was that easy of clicking our heels, we can just all simultaneously start clicking and, and the whole state, we're at number one and everybody's up there. Oh man, I wish
Susan Kang: it were that easy.
Teresa Lovelady: It, it's not gonna be that easy. It's gonna take us all being able to work together.
The Tension of Real Change: When Leadership Threatens Organizational Survival
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Teresa Lovelady: Differently acknowledge our role, first of all, acknowledging your role in the problem too. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes I think as a nonprofit organization, we have these missions that are so deeply embedded in who we are and if we're going down this path. So I'd say if I was an organization serving the [00:15:00] unhoused, right?
Our goal is to serve X amount of. Individuals experiencing homelessness each year because my grant dollars are tied to it. This is our, our history is that, and so what happens when I no longer have individuals who are experiencing homelessness to count so that I can exist as an organization?
Mm-hmm. Well, what's gonna happen is our state's gonna be better, our community's gonna be better, there are gonna be less. But then what about that leader? Who exercised so much leadership that she worked her organization out of existence. Mm-hmm. So sometimes, I mean, exercising leadership and then being in an authority role.
I mean, it's, sometimes it's a conflicting thing.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Where Authority Comes From: Expectations, Accountability, and Who Grants Power
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Ed O'Malley: Okay, let's play with that, because what happens a lot is when you have authority and people don't like to talk about this, right? Yes. But when you have authority, that means somebody gave you. That authority.
Teresa Lovelady: Right.
Ed O'Malley: That means they have expectations on you.
When People Expect “No Chaos”: Why Leadership Disrupts
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Ed O'Malley: Yes. And usually their expectations [00:16:00] are that everything runs smoothly. That there are no big problems, there's no big disruption. Right. Just everything is kind of shift. No chaos.
Susan Kang: No chaos, because that's always how happens. Right? No chaos.
Ed O'Malley: But what we talked about earlier in the series related to part two of this book is that.
Leadership is disruptive. Leadership is risky. These challenges require progress. Requires loss.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes.
Ed O'Malley: Right.
The Penalty for Change: Trust, Access, and Job Risk
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Ed O'Malley: So like people in authority are not often rewarded for stirring up a bunch of change that leads to loss. But yet we need loss so we can move forward. As we talked about a few episodes ago,
Teresa Lovelady: not, not only are you not rewarded, you're penalized.
Yeah. Like there's a penalty to it.
Ed O'Malley: Right? Right.
Teresa Lovelady: So in the penalty sometimes it could be, you know people don't trust you anymore. People don't invite you to the meetings anymore. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, you're someone who disrupts too much. You're shaking it up, so, so. Much for the other organizations and their leaders that [00:17:00] you're impacting their authority, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So if you're impacting their authority, their authority, how do you, how do you still continue down this uphill battle of exercising leadership when you know that all these forces are coming against you and you could possibly lose your job. Yeah. And then if you lose your job in this community.
Where do you go?
Susan Kang: Right, right.
Teresa Lovelady: Where do you go?
Susan Kang: That's such a hard question. I mean, that's a really hard question, Ed. So, I mean, so you have a person who's asking that question. I'm curious to know what you might say about that.
Ed O'Malley: And by the question, you mean like where do you go if you lose your job?
Susan Kang: No, no.
The question consulting
Teresa Lovelady: now. Well, I, AI does that. Now,
Susan Kang: it can also help you with that if you do lose your job, but I'm just saying No, but really, I mean, it's about right. It's this, it's almost like a catch 22, right?
Ed O'Malley: It is.
Authority Isn’t Enough: Avoiding Martyrs by Sharing the Work
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Ed O'Malley: Well, and I think it's one of the things we're trying to get at in this chapter.
And in this part of the book is that what we're talking about right now is one of the reasons why we're saying, Hey, authority isn't enough. You can't do this. You can't mobilize change to close the health gap just by [00:18:00] yourself.
Teresa Lovelady: Right.
Ed O'Malley: Just with your authority alone. It's too risky.
Right? Yes. You'll, we will create too many martyrs. If you just. Kind of can embrace what we need from authority and understand that we're gonna need a lot from other people too. We're gonna need a lot from the grassroots. Yes, we're gonna need to bring more people in, get 'em involved who aren't currently involved in this, but like what's the role of authority?
Provide some direction, anchor around America's health rankings. Talk about capital H Health, that's not very risky. Mm-hmm. But. We need more people doing that. Like that's an example of what we need from people in authority is to like point towards something that we can all agree on.
And if that doesn't happen, it's really hard to make progress.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Using Authority Well: Direction, Resources, and a Safe Space to Lead
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Susan Kang: And I feel like it takes leadership to get people to care with.
Teresa Lovelady: Right,
Susan Kang: right. About the same things, right? That, that, that's, that's where not only [00:19:00] do you have the authority, and it could be in the, it could be in the position of a resource broker, right?
Right. To give out some grants or something like that to help people get on board with your vision and mobilize others to be able to make progress on the thing. But I think that. With, you know, I, I think that it's really, really important to understand that you have the authority, but then that also allows you to exercise that leadership to get people on board and, and to, and to like, and to, what's the word I'm looking for?
To, so the risk isn't just on you
Teresa Lovelady: create a safe space.
Susan Kang: Yeah. Create a safe space. A
Teresa Lovelady: safe space to lead.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Teresa Lovelady: For everyone involved in, so from authority, clearing the path, clearing the way, providing the resources. Yeah. And creating a safe space. That people are able to exercise leadership.
Ed O'Malley: Okay, so I like what we're doing right now.
Let's, so what we're doing right now, okay, we're gonna create a little bit of a, like what does it look like? What does it not look like? Okay. Okay. So. What does it look like to use your authority? Well, to help close the health gap. Mm-hmm. Okay. So you just gave us one answer, like, create a safe space.
Mm-hmm. So just say a little bit more [00:20:00] about what, what does that look like? What is somebody who has authority, whether they're like you, a ACEC, EO of an important community institution, or they're a city council member, or they're a pastor or a rabbi. Mm-hmm. Like, what do they do?
With their authority to create a safe space, do you think?
What “Safe Space” Really Means: Permission to Make Mistakes
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Teresa Lovelady: Well, I think having a safe space where people can make mistakes, because if you're gonna take risk, you're gonna make mistakes. So creating the space where it's okay to make. Mistakes and that you're not gonna be whack-a-mole if you make a mistake.
I love that.
Case Study: The Clinic Expansion ‘Swimming Pool’ and Board Support
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Teresa Lovelady: So when I think about there at Health Core Clinic, you know, we wanted to expand our facility, right? And so I will never forget, we were going down the process, going down the road. We were trying to get the funds to do it. We ended up with the huge swimming pool behind the clinic for a year and a half.
Because the finances ran through, the construction issues happened.
Ed O'Malley: Wait, you mean not literally a swimming pool?
Teresa Lovelady: No, there was like a hole
Ed O'Malley: in
Teresa Lovelady: the ground. There was a hole in the ground with steel plates that was holding it up and the process was [00:21:00] delayed for at least a year before we could start construction again.
Yeah. So now we didn't have a parking lot. We, you know, it was horrible. I, I mean, I felt really bad because I felt like I made decisions in my position of authority. Mm-hmm. That was really. That was taking us down a wrong path. Mm. But the goal was to really expand the physical facility so we can expand access to alternative services in our community as well.
So dental, behavioral health, and all these things. And I'll never forget one of our board members they created, or my board's incredible, but they created that safe. Space for me mm-hmm. To be able to exercise leadership. Mm-hmm. Without feeling like, which gave me the motivation to keep pushing forward and moving and come up with a solution that instead of building another 5,000 square feet to our facility, we ended up with 40,000 Yeah.
Square feet. So,
Ed O'Malley: and it's a beautiful 40,000 square foot campus. I mean, it is an amazing building. And what you've created there, Teresa, is phenomenal. [00:22:00] But it's a great example too that like. You felt risk. Mm-hmm. You're the senior authority.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes.
Ed O'Malley: Right. And you felt risk. It's risky. Okay. And so in the, in the episode right before this one we talked about it's risky.
Yes. Like leadership is risky. And so one of the things we're getting at here in this conversation is that those in authority and your board did this for you. Yes. It sounds like those in authority. Can help make things less risky for others?
Teresa Lovelady: Yes.
Ed O'Malley: And, they can do that in lots of different ways, but one of the ways they can do that is to just make it clear to people that if we don't take risks, we're gonna get the same darn outcomes we've been getting.
And then they can model risk taking like you did. And protect people when they try something and it doesn't work. Yes. Like to protect them. Right. Alright, I wanna ask, go ahead Susan. I wanna ask
Susan Kang: another question. I was gonna say, and that really encourages experimenting experimentation.
Yes. Around solutions, potential solutions if you have the safe space [00:23:00] to be able to conduct some experiments. 'cause you know you get to a better outcome potentially, right? You
Ed O'Malley: get to do that.
Your Real Job: Create Conditions for Risk-Taking and Experimentation
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Ed O'Malley: And I love how we're playing with this idea of risk right now. And we, again, we talked about last, last episode, but it's great for it to come back now is the, like, what we're trying to help people understand with this chapter is your job, those of you in authority, your job isn't to solve the health gap. Your job is to create the conditions to make it more likely. That everybody who has the help do the work to close the health gap can close the health gap. There's a big distinction there. Yeah. Right. It's like your job isn't to be the one to imagine what risks need to be taken and then take all those risks by yourself.
You might need to take some risks, but your job is to create the conditions where people can take more risk, knowing that we're gonna have to take risks From a lot of us to make more progress.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes. And if you're leading an organization, creating that environment within your organization where your team leaders, all the way to [00:24:00] the front desk.
That they're empowered to take the risk that it's gonna take all of us pushing in, in the same direction To be able to move the needle. Move the needle. Yeah. Little by little. Every parts. And then to me, we can grow that 30,000 to 60,000 to 90,000. Because in theory, if you're in a role of authority, you, you could.
Clear the path, do these things. But we have all those others that are on that journey with us that we can engage the Alices, we can engage everyone to become a part of that group that now shifts their mindset and think differently on how we're gonna close the gap.
Ed O'Malley: In a minute, I want to ask, we talked a little bit about like, what does it look like to use your authority?
Well, and the example, the case we played with was. Creating a safe space to take risks. Mm-hmm. Okay. In just a minute, I want to ask what does it look like when you really screw this up? So be thinking about that. Let's not name anybody, but let's think about times we've seen this go really bad, where people, somebody uses their authority in a way, not [00:25:00] helpful for progress on health or on other key important things.
So be thinking about about that idea.
Protection, Direction, Order: A Practical Framework for Authority
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Ed O'Malley: So before we get to, what does it look like to screw this up, I just wanna lift up something I, that I was taught from one of my mentors, and I don't think I said this in the book, but Marty Linsky, who, dear friend, dear mentor, great author he taught me that authority is about providing three things, protection, direction, and order.
So, protection, like, let people take some risks and protect them when they don't go well. Right direction. Here's the North Star, right? This matters. We have to focus on this, right? In order. Here's how we're gonna work together. But notice that in those three things, protection, direction, and order. Yeah. Not one of 'em is about having the solution.
Teresa Lovelady: Mm-hmm. Right.
Ep11_wide: It's
Ed O'Malley: about, it's about creating conditions mm-hmm. For people to emerge [00:26:00] solutions. Okay. Let's now try to play with an example or two of like what does it look like to get this wrong, and we only have a few minutes left in this episode, so we won't belabor it. We're positive thinkers.
We're glass half full thinkers. But let's try to name, what does it look like when you don't use your authority? Well, when you don't understand the difference between authority and leadership, what does it look like?
Susan Kang: Teresa, what are you thinking?
Teresa Lovelady: Oh, man. I'm trying to keep the innocent, innocent in this situation.
How Authority Goes Wrong: The COVID Vaccine Homebound Gap
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Teresa Lovelady: But when I think about i, I hate to go back to the, to a COVID incident. But there was an opportunity in our community to vaccinate our seniors. Right. The vaccine came out, the shot came out. It's like, get the shot. Yeah. But there was a part of the population that was missing when you talk about our seniors coming down to the interest bank arena and well, there is the home bound. They're the individuals living in group nursing homes. Mm-hmm. And so I was trying to ask permission and to figures of authority to. Go and vaccinate. Those who were home bound because they met the age requirement and all these different things.
And it was [00:27:00] a very interesting response where it was like, you know, this is the way it's gonna go. And I'm like, but there's no way you can get home bound seniors living in group homes out of those environments to get them there, to get the shot in that environment. And so there was a fear of defying authority, right.
But at the same time, trying to exercise leadership in a way where you're gonna do the right thing. So having that, that moral, like, am I gonna lose my job if I do this or am I gonna impact, have a negative impact on healthcare clinic if I make the decision to move forward and do that? Because there were over, I think there were 300 individuals that were living in group homes that needed to be vaccinated.
So,
Ed O'Malley: and Teresa, what I imagine like what, what. An effective authority would've done in that situation. Right? So there were civic authorities in that situation dictating a whole lot of things, right? And what could have been really effective would've been for somebody in that key role of authority to [00:28:00] be able to say things like, okay, well here's some reasons why.
We maybe can't just go directly to those people, but let's bring the right people together into a conversation where we center this challenge as the problem and we don't leave the room back then probably the zoom room, right. Until we have an adequate answer. Like that's an example of like somebody in authority.
Using their authority not to solve it, but to create the conditions and to help shine a light on something that needs to be solved.
Teresa Lovelady: Yes. And the flexibility to the plan, because I think it was just nobody really thought about that group. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so now this is a new situation, so we cannot It did, it was like putting a square in a circle spot.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Teresa Lovelady: So,
Ed O'Malley: okay.
Calls to Action & What’s Next in the Series
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Ed O'Malley: We've covered a lot of ground.
Susan Kang: So I really absolutely enjoy this conversation, learning more about the differences right between being a position of authority and, and exercising leadership. My call to action for people in positions of authority who are really awesome to [00:29:00] really figure out and think about how, what, how, and what they might do to start exercising leadership.
Teresa, I'm gonna hand it over to you.
Teresa Lovelady: Well, and, and for me, I would say understanding when there is authority. Right, that you need to ex like because you're in that role. So you're kind of that authoritarian and whatever you do in that role, right? Mm-hmm. But then also understand that there's gonna be a little give and take, and then to listen and try your best to not be the thing or the person that prevents progress.
Mm.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. The thing that's on my mind, my call to action for our listeners is it goes back to that conversation about creating safe spaces progress at closing the health gap or progress at. Anything that somebody's organization cares deeply about is gonna require risk and a culture that can accept risk.
So my call to action is for members of the 30,000 to think about how they are creating a culture that is acceptance, accepting of [00:30:00] risk in their day to day. What a great conversation.
Teresa Lovelady: Oh, awesome.
Ed O'Malley: Teresa, we will have you back again soon for another conversation. We are about halfway through the book and we're gonna start diving into the mindsets needed.
So Teresa, thank you Susan. This is always a blast. And until next time join us again for leading health Coming up soon.
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