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Welcome to The Dr. JJ Thomas Podcast! Here I'll be talking all things physical therapy, raw and unplugged, giving you the unfiltered insights you've been searching for in your cash-based physical therapy business. If you're caught in the grind of the traditional model, swamped with paperwork, or feeling like you're not reaching your full potential as a physical therapist, this podcast was created just for you.
So we could point to that spot that's bothering you, but it'd be better if we can say, what predisposed you to pull that area or or strain that area after that workout? And right now, it's pulling towards, like, an anterior chain thing.
Kevin Sheehan:Welcome to the doctor JJ Thomas podcast.
Dr JJ Thomas:Hey, Rudy. Welcome to the doctor JJ Thomas podcast. I'm JJ Thomas. And today, we have my friend, Kevin.
Kevin Sheehan:Shit.
Kevin Sheehan:That's alright.
Dr JJ Thomas:Kevin's in my phone. It's Kevin Windback
Kevin Sheehan:Kevin and everyone.
Dr JJ Thomas:Because Kevin is our Windback rep. We're gonna do an episode on the Windback in a little bit, so you'll learn more about the Windback. But, but Kevin was coming down here, and for some stuff with our wind back machine, and we were talking, and he's like, budget by the way, JJ,
Kevin Sheehan:I I
Dr JJ Thomas:kinda tweaked my back the other day working out, and I said, hey, man. We're gonna have Dane, our video guy here. Can we can check you out on camera and see what's happening?
Kevin Sheehan:Sounds good.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. So so we're gonna go through kind of a history, like, just like an evaluation we would. I know a lot of the feedback I get from other clinicians often is that kind of really having that live insight into how we do things here at Primal Physical Therapy, has been helpful for their clinical practice. So when Kevin said this and I knew we'd have Dane here to video and capture it, I was like, let's go. So, so, yeah, we're gonna go through everything just as I would in a normal physical therapy evaluation, here at Primal with with Kevin as our as our demo.
Dr JJ Thomas:So, so first, Kevin, if we can just talk a little bit about what happened.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah. I was doing, some barbell work the other day, with some bent over rows and some overhead presses and, you know, a couple other variations with kettlebells as well. And, felt fine after I worked out and then, you know, later that day, I got home and bent over to pet my dog and, you know, kind of felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. So kind of seized up and had a difficult night sleeping just because they couldn't find a comfortable position for that kind of upper back on their inside.
Dr JJ Thomas:Okay. And that was, like, 2 days ago you said or how many days?
Kevin Sheehan:Yesterday.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yesterday. Perfect. Alright. And then, today, how was it today?
Kevin Sheehan:A little bit better. You know, tried to go through some mobility and stretching this morning, and it definitely feels a little bit better. But, you know, being in the car for a little bit is probably
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Kevin Sheehan:Locked up now.
Kevin Sheehan:So You
Dr JJ Thomas:did you say you were doing some overhead passing too that day? Yes. Okay. Yep. And it felt fine when you were doing all that
Kevin Sheehan:stuff? Yeah. It felt fine.
Kevin Sheehan:It wasn't, you know, any onset from the workout itself where I was like, oop. That wasn't right. Yeah. Yeah. Just kinda later that day, I got home and it wasn't feeling too great.
Dr JJ Thomas:Okay. And then no tingling or numbness anywhere? Nope. Alright. And where do you feel it?
Kevin Sheehan:Kinda like here, mid back. And it's more it feels like respiratory in a sense when I take deep breaths is when I get it. Or, I've noticed, you know, bending over if I favor the right side, trying to go lower with my right arm in a bent over position. That's where I
Dr JJ Thomas:feel it.
Kevin Sheehan:It really
Dr JJ Thomas:start to
Kevin Sheehan:bother me.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright. Cool. So let's take a look at motion. I'm gonna have you stand in front of me this, I think, yeah, I think I'll have you stand that way if that's okay. So relax your arms at your side, feet together.
Dr JJ Thomas:You're just you're so
Kevin Sheehan:tall that,
Dr JJ Thomas:we're gonna do some arm motions and things, but, but we might have to just have your arm out to the side just a little. So first, I want you to just look down as far as you can. Good. And then go back to center, and then look up as far as you can. Good.
Dr JJ Thomas:Back to center, and actually, do you mind taking the shirt off right away? Because right away I'm gonna look at, some pastoral things, and as you just did that, I think I saw something on this right shoulder. Feet together, relax your arms again. Yeah. That's good.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright. Good. So look down, and then look up, back to center, and then I'm actually gonna have you turn this way so that the, the other way. Face the camera, feet together, and then because what I'm seeing, if I just look at posture right off the bat, there's, there's a little bit of like a right shore shoulder forward pull here when I just look at, postural lines, and, from the front. So and it's kinda more obvious when you start moving your neck.
Dr JJ Thomas:I don't wanna stand in front of you, but so now look to the right, and then look to the left. Good. Back to center, and look to the right again. So a little difficult when you go to the right. Mhmm.
Dr JJ Thomas:Can you take this right arm cross it across to the left like, hold it on just kinda do that, and now look to the right again and back to center, and then put the arm down, and then look to the right again and back to the center. They look about the same to me. Cross it again. Oh, no. It's definitely easier when you put that arm up.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:Do you feel do you feel that? Yeah. Yeah. So put it down again and look right. Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:So you you push both range because you're former d one lacrosse athlete, by the way, so a total achiever, and and you can always tell an achiever because they'll push through motion, but you can see that the ease of motion changes when he puts that arm up. So, take a step back for a second. I wanna look at, shoulder motion. Yes. So feet stay together, pull it straight straight back, go back.
Dr JJ Thomas:Just kinda do this with your hand, and then go back as far as you can. And then from there, touch behind to the opposite shoulder. Good. Back down, and then left arm, same thing. Elbows straight.
Dr JJ Thomas:So pause at the back for me. I know it's hard with the ceiling, and then touch behind. So the range looks pretty darn good there. Back to center. Right.
Dr JJ Thomas:Relax your arms again. Right arm straight back, chest stays up. So that's what I see comes forward, come back to center. So we're seeing that right anterior delt and pec again. Face the camera for me.
Dr JJ Thomas:Feet together, and then goes pulls that arm straight back. See how that whole shoulder kinda just dips and the whole pec goes with it. From there, touch behind to the opposite shoulder. And the, and keep the elbow high when you do that so I can so come out of it. This is this is where I see my OCD come out.
Dr JJ Thomas:Okay. So right arm straight back.
Kevin Sheehan:Yep.
Dr JJ Thomas:Pause. Keep the elbow high and touch the opposite shoulder. So that looks good. So if people, but his whole shoulder is already forward potentially from the pec. Come on out of that.
Dr JJ Thomas:Okay. Now we're gonna go, turn and face me again. Bend forward as far as you can with your knees straight. Good. Any pain there?
Kevin Sheehan:No. K. She feels
Kevin Sheehan:kinda tight. Okay.
Dr JJ Thomas:Come back up, arms overhead, and extend back as far as you can. Like, let your hips come forward and extend, and back to center, and then hands on your hips, and extend back as far as you can again. So that's very different. So that tells me that your shoulders are affecting the rest of your back range of motion. Let's go face, let's have a seat on the table.
Dr JJ Thomas:Let's look back at the, the neck piece because this is all gonna help me understand better, just the different components of what might be affecting that part of your shoulder, back, shoulder, whatever. Yep. So in that position, look to your right. Also easier. Come back to center.
Dr JJ Thomas:So stand just so you get that comparison and keep your feet there and then look right. So a little harder when you're standing versus sitting. Right? Mhmm. So that points more to the abdominal region.
Dr JJ Thomas:So when we shorten the abdominals or the hip flexors, that's putting unnecessary strain on the backside of your body. Okay. So we could point to that spot that's bothering you, but it'd be better if we can say, what predisposed you to pull that area or or strain that area after that workout? And right now, it's pointing towards, like, an anterior chain thing. Probably some right pec, probably some abdominals.
Dr JJ Thomas:Let's go face down on the table. Kinda I'm stealing all your things. I'm taking your shirt now. Okay. You know, you're good.
Dr JJ Thomas:So in this position, let's check your shoulders out. So let's go, let's go right arm overhead. Good, elbow straight, thumb up, this is better since the ceiling's not in our way, and go straight up here. Yeah, and then I can probably pull you up a little further, so there's a slight motor control thing going on there, meaning you don't have the ability to control through your full range.
Kevin Sheehan:Yep.
Dr JJ Thomas:And then let's see here, elbow on me, and take this arm and go up as high as you, keep yep. Just elbow. Like, just like that. Good. Come back down.
Dr JJ Thomas:Go on your own because I kinda pushed you there. That one looks pretty darn good. Cuff looks solid there. Now go internal rotations the other direction. That one looks pretty good too.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright. Let's check this side real quick. Elbow straight overhead, thumb up, go up as high as you can. Also, a little motor control, not as bad as the right side. Let's go to, propped elbows.
Kevin Sheehan:Mhmm.
Dr JJ Thomas:So, like, just prop yourself up on your elbows. Mhmm. Great. Now, relax your hips, and then from here take this arm, put it behind the back, and then I want you to push down through here and rotate up towards the ceiling. Yep.
Dr JJ Thomas:And then can I yeah? I can pull you through a a fair bit more. Come on out of that. Does that hurt at all?
Kevin Sheehan:No.
Dr JJ Thomas:Okay. And then let's do the other side. So I'm gonna block you from side bending, and then you go. This side's way easier. Right?
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. So go back to this side. I'm gonna block you again, and I want you to put this hand behind the back, and relax your hips, and then push down, rotate up. And we're trying we'd like you to get to closer to 50 degrees there, but how does this change when you put this arm on your head now? So now we're gonna put the pec on a stretch.
Dr JJ Thomas:Oh, it's definitely go compare the 2 for me again. It seems harder, but let's make sure the range.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah. It feels harder.
Dr JJ Thomas:Actually
Kevin Sheehan:With it on the head.
Dr JJ Thomas:Do this one again. Here. And go. Yep. Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:You actually go further, but, let's go now. You're gonna bend your knees. So go back into, like, a child's pose. Yes. Prop your elbow here, and then take this hand and put it behind your back.
Dr JJ Thomas:So now we're comparing behind your back first. So now we're gonna compare this one. Way easier.
Kevin Sheehan:Way easier.
Dr JJ Thomas:And then the other, put the hand on the head and see how that changes things. Yeah. Still you move better. So the biggest differences in all the planes go ahead and sit for me, and we'll talk through this. The biggest chain there were two things that changed all of your other motions.
Kevin Sheehan:Mhmm.
Dr JJ Thomas:The front pec and the abs. So when we shorten the abdominals both in sitting with neck range of motion and in pro from prone to child's pose Yep. From prone to child's pose, your trunk rotated better. So both of these things show that there's abdominal piece that that tightness is affecting your ability to move efficiently when you're training. Those are the things that would predispose you to the strain.
Dr JJ Thomas:So we could rub a strain and work on it. Right? But if we do that and we haven't fixed the thing that caused you to get the strain Oh, yeah. Exactly, then it just keeps coming back. So what we try to do is find that first, treat that first, and then treat the strain if it's still an issue.
Kevin Sheehan:Mhmm. That's good.
Dr JJ Thomas:So let's that actually brings us let's treat the abdominals first, and then we'll retest. Okay?
Kevin Sheehan:Just listened to this episode.
Dr JJ Thomas:You did? Yeah. It's meant to be. Alright. So you're gonna lie on your back.
Dr JJ Thomas:One of the one of actually my favorite ways to treat the abdominals is with the wind back. I swear I'm not I'm not falsifying. Yeah. So, this
Kevin Sheehan:will be a first for me.
Dr JJ Thomas:Oh, really? I don't
Kevin Sheehan:think I've had an abdominal treatment.
Dr JJ Thomas:Oh, most people haven't. I don't know why I sounded surprised.
Kevin Sheehan:Well, I
Kevin Sheehan:say especially with the wind back.
Dr JJ Thomas:I mean Yeah.
Kevin Sheehan:Feel like I've had it tested everywhere else, but not never.
Dr JJ Thomas:So, yeah, the when, when I was in France, and they did the the, what do they call that protocol that I yeah. The fit plus protocol. That was crazy. So, no, we're gonna do more of a, we'll do we're actually gonna use so we're gonna talk about TEC R therapy in the next episode, guys. Good?
Dr JJ Thomas:You good? Yep. Okay. It's cold. He took that really well.
Kevin Sheehan:I used to.
Dr JJ Thomas:So there's a couple different things we can do with the tachytherapy. I'm gonna start with I wanna affect his soft tissue more. So I'm gonna start with the capacitative head, which is gonna give me more of, like, a effect on the soft tissue, meaning the muscles. It's not that soft. So here we go.
Dr JJ Thomas:So put this kinda on your pack actually so that I can yeah. So I'm just gonna go. So, essentially, we can do a massage through with the Tech Art Therapy, at the same time so that it's basically enhancing what we can do with our, with our manual skills, which you know. Because that is the other piece too. Like, normally, if if we had a full hour, say, I might do even more movement testing, but the cool thing about the movement testing is you can still multiple things will come up, so you're right.
Dr JJ Thomas:Your hip tightness might also be from this.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:So, so when we let the movement tell a story, it gets us to more foundational deficits that then, hopefully, once you fix those first, then you're stretching your hips less because we treat the underlying root issues.
Kevin Sheehan:Right.
Dr JJ Thomas:You know?
Kevin Sheehan:I was about to forget the name of it. I have, like, a rare back condition that I found out about in high school because I had a similar issue actually where I got flipped in a soccer game as a goalie. It kept, like, clipped underneath my legs Yeah.
Kevin Sheehan:And I
Kevin Sheehan:landed on my back. And it's gosh.
Kevin Sheehan:I'm driving nuts.
Kevin Sheehan:I can't get the name of it. But,
Dr JJ Thomas:Is it like a hereditary tariff?
Kevin Sheehan:I don't believe so. It was, it was, like, I think it's, like, 3% of the population.
Kevin Sheehan:And it's
Dr JJ Thomas:I don't know.
Kevin Sheehan:The same thing I also have on my left side, a shoulder issue where when I I found out in, like, freshman in high school that I had cysts in my left shoulder, which was weird because I'm right hand dominant, which is really weird. But it was, yeah. It's another thing that they it's typically it was found, you know, when they first discovered the condition in, like, factory workers that did the same thing.
Dr JJ Thomas:Like, repetitive strain.
Kevin Sheehan:But I was it
Kevin Sheehan:did make sense that it was
Kevin Sheehan:in my left shoulder versus my right. But, yeah, it was the back one will come to me.
Dr JJ Thomas:So this side in particular is pretty tight. Oh, I know. So I am actually gonna put the bracelet on too. So the wind back has a bracelet. It's like when you were in middle school, and you would try to be blood sisters with somebody, only you're, like, electrical sisters now.
Dr JJ Thomas:We're electrical brother and sister. So the bracelet will, conduct the electricity through my hand now to him. Yeah. So we can use the bracelet to conduct the energy through my hands. It sounds, like, very interesting, but it's pretty cool when you actually use it.
Dr JJ Thomas:You can feel your fingers getting warm. If you guys don't have a wind back near you, let me know. Shoot me a DM, and and Kevin is always my, Kevin, my my patient has a sis has a sister in Newark. Right? Where do they go for that?
Dr JJ Thomas:My my cousin has a best friend in Colorado. We can we can hook you up, but it's pretty awesome stuff, and so, because here I'm changing that intensity, and he could really probably go warmer, so we're at like 30% now, we're gonna go to 40%. You okay here? So I'm honing in on this, so I had the larger heads for just gross improvement in the soft tissue, basically blood flow and cell permeability, but now that I've found this real distinct area, I kind of want to get it out a little bit better, and then we'll retest him in a little bit, and then if that's not enough, we may use some needles, and always check against the range. So we'll check the range.
Dr JJ Thomas:You feel it getting warm? Mhmm. You doing okay here? Yep. Any previous history of injuries in this area?
Kevin Sheehan:No. K.
Dr JJ Thomas:When you bent forward earlier, did you feel it at all? Like, when I had you do a forward bend or only when you went to reach and grab something?
Kevin Sheehan:No. Forward bend down my toes a little bit, but not
Dr JJ Thomas:Not like yesterday or whatever? Yesterday.
Kevin Sheehan:I noticed it more like getting into that stretch. So if I were to drop kind of my knees
Dr JJ Thomas:Oh, right.
Kevin Sheehan:Get rid of the hamstring Yeah. Portion of that stretch, that's where I would feel it more. But it was just kinda like the arms hanging.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright.
Kevin Sheehan:I
Dr JJ Thomas:know. It's really tight. Did you guys do a lot of I'm sure. Because it you probably did some abs with it too. Right?
Dr JJ Thomas:You said you did some kettlebell stuff? Yep. Sometimes, like, if abs fatigue, then they just burn out and then just try to hit it through somewhere else, but again, I'm not gonna say don't do that. I feel like more things happen when we don't try to exercise. You know what I mean?
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright, let's just see where we are motion testing wise, So you can, slide pull pants back normally, and then I'm gonna have you go sit up first. Yep. You good? Yep. Hot?
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah. Okay.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright. So let's have you stand, and I wanna check neck motion. Because even though your pain is in the back Mhmm. The neck motion was relevant. So feet together Yep.
Dr JJ Thomas:And then look to the right. Yay. That looked Amazing. Like it did before. Right?
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So, yeah, making sure that we use the movement to decide what to treat and then treating that first, and then half the time you don't have to chain you don't have to treat the area that was hurting anyway. Let's do the the one on your belly because that test, and let's check shoulder too, actually. So, yeah, so we'll check, this one first, right arm, drop this guy.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yep. Elbow straight, lift straight up. Better than it was. I can still pull it a teeny bit more, but it's much better.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:So even, like, so what I think I see there is that the right abdominal region was inhibiting your scapular stabilizers from being able to pull you through the full range on your own.
Kevin Sheehan:Okay.
Dr JJ Thomas:So once we affected this area with the wind back and a little bit of massage, now this shoulder isn't inhibited, and it can control that full range.
Kevin Sheehan:Mhmm.
Dr JJ Thomas:So imagine if we, like for you guys listening, like, you know, Kevin said they did some overhead work, with, was it kettlebells?
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. And so if abs are inhibiting his shoulder stability in overhead, then no wonder his scap, so his, he was tweaked kinda like low trap, maybe a little bit of lat area, so if abs are inhibiting that, the scapular, the shoulder's ability to stabilize all of that, then you're gonna pull here. So we can just see that now by your after motion, which is so cool. And then let's go ahead and check. So that one was pretty limited, and then the other one was the propped position.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yep. And then push down with this hand behind your back. Oh my god. Yeah. Ridiculous.
Dr JJ Thomas:That's ridiculous. Put your hand on your head. I just wanna see if it changes, and then go up. Now it looks pretty good. Don't let this come up, but one more time.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. Honestly, I mean it's a little bit The only thing left I would do, that's a little more limited. Now that now that your abs, are loose and you can pull through with the hand behind your back, and I see the difference with your hand up, I would like to treat that lat a little bit, maybe with a needle or 2, and then we'll retest, and then we should be good deal. Perfect. Cool.
Dr JJ Thomas:Any questions? No. Great. Alright. So we are gonna treat this lat a little bit and kinda see where it goes.
Dr JJ Thomas:Let's do I always like to retest right before. So lift one more time up. It's so much better than the first time. It's crazy. Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:I'm gonna do a little bit of the lat and I feel like I saw a little tightness here too. So we'll check that out. So when I needle most people don't feel the needle go in, you'll feel a deep, big, or a twitch. Okay?
Kevin Sheehan:Yep. If you
Dr JJ Thomas:need a break, just let me know. Sounds good.
Kevin Sheehan:It's been a while.
Dr JJ Thomas:Good job. So guys, when we're doing this, I always try to there. That was a good one. Yes. Push and pull the tissue as If you're gonna grasp and thread, kinda pushing and pulling the tissue back and forth to really own.
Dr JJ Thomas:See, now I can grab it so much better. So like, I don't just like do this loosely. It's like, let me get a new needle loaded and then I'll show you guys what I'm trying to say here.
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah. I don't feel like That's it's floating a balloon.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. That's better. Right? So put kind of pushing and pulling back and forth so I can really delineate the tissue. And now I really now I own that tissue, and I can control, where I'm treating a lot, lot better.
Dr JJ Thomas:I also have more tissue accessible to me than if I'm just kinda loosey goose in there, and I know I'm safe. So lots of benefits to kinda taking the time to identify the tissue that you're treating better. Good. Alright. Let's retest.
Dr JJ Thomas:So 3 needles. Oh, I dropped a piece. There we go. Elbow straight, lift straight up. Let's go.
Dr JJ Thomas:That's perfect. Okay. So now let's do that last test again propped on your elbows. Great. And then go the other way first so I can compare it.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. So go as far as beautiful. That's perfect motion now. Hand on your head and up. Pretty darn close.
Dr JJ Thomas:Pretty darn close. I kinda wanna do one more. Can I do the front delt just to see how it affects? So flip on your back and do the front delt. Kinda what we saw earlier.
Dr JJ Thomas:Really the I have to feel where. I'm not sure yet. It may be the clavicular portion, and it might be the sternal portion. Alright. Good?
Dr JJ Thomas:Mhmm. So I'm gonna swab it first, and then I'll get into that muscle play and see where we wanna treat you guys. We'll be good to go, and we'll finish with that last test. So yeah, that's pretty that's pretty limited right there. I guess should we ought to move that back and forth.
Dr JJ Thomas:You feel tight there?
Kevin Sheehan:Yeah.
Dr JJ Thomas:Yeah. So this is one I would not recommend doing if you haven't trained in it, you guys. For sure I mean, obviously, anything you haven't learned, but this one in particular, you wanna make sure that you have had some it's a little different technique than how they usually teach it in courses, but we're gonna thread across it, and there they are. I need to get one more. Sometimes you have to take a couple passes of things till you loosen it up to grab it better.
Dr JJ Thomas:Right? So Same thing as I said with the lat, like I'm pushing and pulling and pushing and pulling till I can get the tissue that I want to treat within my grasp, because I can only treat that which I know I have kind of gathered in my fingers, and I know it's in a safe zone. Good. Good. Let me see.
Dr JJ Thomas:Here we are. That feels great. And then the only other thing I see in this position is one more lat. You guys aren't gonna be able to see this, but sometimes I get the lat and cuff from this side, and that's the only thing I see left here. So I'm gonna do one more in the lat before we retest, and then we'll be all good.
Dr JJ Thomas:And then I'll make you try to make it hurt again because I yeah. This is
Kevin Sheehan:Felt
Dr JJ Thomas:that one. Felt that one? You doing okay? Yeah. Good job.
Dr JJ Thomas:Alright. Let's go face down. Prop yourself. Whoo. It's hot up here.
Kevin Sheehan:Then I was And
Dr JJ Thomas:then here. Yep. No. Down this way first. Yep.
Dr JJ Thomas:Keep the hips down. I mean, that is so good from when we started, and then hand on your head and rotate up. Yes. I like it. Wait.
Dr JJ Thomas:Keep that hip down. He's such an achiever. That's better. Yeah. So go ahead and sit up, and then see if you can, I mean, I had you forward bend
Kevin Sheehan:Yes?
Dr JJ Thomas:But you didn't really feel it with that. So I would do
Kevin Sheehan:Oh, but I didn't feel it getting into it.
Dr JJ Thomas:Good. And what about I think you were saying that, like, if you kind of
Kevin Sheehan:That? Yeah. I don't
Dr JJ Thomas:feel it. Yes. Thank you for playing. You. Alright, guys.
Dr JJ Thomas:So that's it. I mean, basically, the moral of the story is do a movement assess well, listen to your patients, but after you hear them, observe them, do a movement assessment. You're gonna have to try to learn to change to change variables that will give you information on finding that underlying root cause. If you have questions as always message me, shoot a comment in the whatever that section is for comments, reach out and thanks Kevin. You guys are gonna see Kevin in our next episode actually because he's here.
Dr JJ Thomas:We're gonna video all about the wind back, so you'll get to see more about Kevin. Yeah, thanks for coming. Take care guys.