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For so many modern, driven women, life is about being more than one thing. We’re multidimensional—and so are our conversations. We carry multiple identities; we can be both mother and artist; both attorney and entrepreneur. Both clinician and CEO. Both humble and proud. Life for women like us is about both. About…all of the above. It’s about the “and”...
00:00.00
heymarvelous
Welcome to the Angie spoke podcast in today's episode we're talking about audiences why you need 1 and 2023 why they're important to you as a creator and maybe a few tips on how to build 1 so Miss Sandy um we talking about audiences today.
00:17.40
sandy
Because if any of you are trying to create a business I don't think you have a business unless you have an audience and that is a constant nurturing and growth and attention and I think so many people will tend to just go in like try to run their business with the delivery side of whatever their. Building membership courses coaching they'll focus there and they'll forget how important it is that they have to have people out there in the public Realm who are aware of their work and um, sort of nurture that desire for their work.
00:50.25
heymarvelous
Yes I think that's exactly right? and I think that this is the part that is hardest for almost everyone that we encounter this side of business like most of us are quite comfortable with our craft and making things and. Remaking things and making more things and getting really excited about making additional things because we're Makers. We're creators. We're Entrepreneurs. We Want to go um, share our skills and share our creations with the world. But then who do we share them to once we've with once we've exhausted our immediate you know network. That's where it gets a little bit more tricky. So I think that that's that's this concept of audience where it comes in because I think most of us wouldn't think of our existing client base for example in the in-person in real-life world as audience like we we would think of them as just like our clients or students or people we know or our network.
01:28.48
sandy
Um.
01:40.57
sandy
Um, ah.
01:45.63
heymarvelous
And audience has this like implied other to me, it's like yeah yeah, yeah, like fans or yeah crowd of people that don't interact back with us.
01:48.62
sandy
Hecklers implies like stand up comedy and hecklers in the crowd. That's what I think.
02:00.20
heymarvelous
Yeah, So one of the articles I Actually we were just talking about that I looked at and I was reading about actually several articles before we were recording this podcast. There's like kind of a bit of controversy around this word because I know that a lot of people feel uncomfortable with it because I think if you're not a performer shout out to our Archetype Quiz. You're not a performer like the idea of having an audience of people paying attention to you is probably pretty unnatural and maybe not appealing. Um, and then I think because of that there's some pushback to this idea in the creator economy of building an audience like. Well, That's so one sided and really what you want is a community because it should be interactive and like I don't know how I feel about that have that.
02:44.96
sandy
I Know how I feel about that I think it's a bunch of Malarkey I think that if we're talking about someone who has an online business and you are trying to obviously make some money and sell something I don't believe you need to have an interactive. Audience in order to sell I think you need to have eyeballs out there watching you and reading whatever you're writing but I don't think they need to be clicking like or writing comments on a blog. For example I don't think that is necessary for the business. So community.
03:05.30
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah.
03:20.49
heymarvelous
Ah.
03:23.11
sandy
But you're having back and forth I Think that's much more important part of as part of paid programs. Um, where you're really sort of the leader of whatever it is. You're teaching and you're you know, helping people and guiding people and advising people. Um, and then the the engagement kind of happens there but I don't believe it's necessary. Be great if you had it in your like public audience. But I don't think it's an absolute.
03:45.26
heymarvelous
Yeah I agree with you actually and as you're saying that you know what it's just making me think about Patreon and this idea of like how how Patreon was created to help creators particularly youtubers monetize. And like you have your audience on Youtube and then you have your patrons right? So the people who want to interact with you are paying you for that through a platform like Patreon or shout out marvelous like it's just this idea like you don't as a creator.
04:06.10
sandy
Um, ah.
04:15.82
heymarvelous
You don't have to give that interactivity away for free and in fact, once you get big enough. It's impossible to scale that right like you can't respond to every comment that you get on social media or on a platform like Youtube or on a blog if you have a large enough readership or viewership like it's just not humanly possible.
04:32.52
sandy
Um.
04:33.64
heymarvelous
So that's why we create these structures of paid offerings in order to allocate that interactivity to people that are paying for it for it and I think early on in your business. Obviously when you have 0 followers then you get your first follower then yeah, that can be interactive. It's like it's interactive up until the point that it isn't right until you get. A certain size and I think our argument in this podcast episode is that you want your audience to be big enough that you actually can't interact with them because you want it that big ideally.
05:03.42
sandy
Yeah, but I mean I would advise our clients not to even worry about that like just to constantly crank out Really amazing. Great free, highly valuable content so that the audience and when we say audience we're talking about like your email list.
05:15.12
heymarvelous
Open.
05:20.89
sandy
And all your social following. Basically so all like the nonpaid clients. Well I guess the paid clients are also in your audience. They're all watching but like I think the focus should just be on but the content that you are putting out there in the world to attract.
05:29.42
heymarvelous
Um.
05:39.20
sandy
People into your audience who need to be there and whether they interact or not I just I don't think it's very important I don't think it's a measure of you or the quality of your work or how desirable your offering is I don't think it's anything. It's just is this dead neutral whether they. Engage or comment or like or share. Whatever.
06:01.61
heymarvelous
Um, yeah I yeah and I mean at some point it's not it's it's not relevant to your business like I'm thinking about like once people are really quite big like someone like brene brown she her audience. Like there's going to be a percentage of people that interact it that do that and then there's going to be all the people that buy our books and watch our Ted talk and whatever else that don't interact and are just kind of lurking in the background and that's just fine. They're just as valuable probably to her her branded her business as the people who are like commenting on her posts on Instagram or whatever.
06:30.58
sandy
Um, yeah.
06:34.22
heymarvelous
Yeah, so I think like that just is is what we mean by audience. That's a long long road to say that but it's just this group of people that are paying attention to what you're doing. They're reading watching listening um, something about you and your brand and your your um, kind of thought leadership is drawing them in and.
06:35.47
sandy
So.
06:53.74
heymarvelous
Causing them to come back for more and that's what you want.
06:56.66
sandy
Yeah I think the purpose of this the purpose of this ah of this audience this purpose of this episode is to change the conversation around engagement to like I need to grow my audience right? like the con the the bigger like zoom out.
07:11.48
heymarvelous
Ah.
07:14.36
sandy
Bigger concept of like how do I get more people to read watch discover me, you know how do I grow this audience so that when I go to sell or launch my next paid offering that there are people who are ready to buy like that is.
07:20.71
heymarvelous
I.
07:29.99
sandy
It that is the entire reason that you want an audience if you're an entrepreneur.
07:31.71
heymarvelous
Yes, yes, yeah, it all leads back to that it all leads back to money in the bank I would say for sure. so so yeah we have like a we can go through Sandy we have a 5 kind of 5 factor.
07:39.90
sandy
Right? right.
07:48.55
heymarvelous
Little list here of why it's so important to grow an audience as a creator and um and we can just kind of talk about this and yeah, that's the first thing is promotion. Um, you want to have an audience of people there and already paying attention to you so that when you're ready to sell something.
08:06.36
heymarvelous
There are people ready to buy it right because they they don't have to go through that exercise of encountering you and your brand and your work and then also evaluating your offering at the same time with they've already done the first half of that they've already they already know who you are. They're already paying attention. They already have like decided that they're gonna. Either be interested in you or trust you um and then they can decide whether the offering is right for them. It doesn't have to all be part of the same decision process.
08:32.75
sandy
Yeah I think too many people forget that step and they just go to building or creating and then like they go go to sell it and there's just like crickets. There's nobody. There. So Even if you're not really like quite ready to launch something or put something up for sale. That this still this audience building component is still like equally as important if not more.
08:56.82
heymarvelous
Yes, absolutely okay, and then the second the second element that we wanted to talk about is engagement and I know we just talked about how community and engagement are not necessary for your overall audience but engagement is really powerful with that sort of first group of people that that first initial. Group of people where it sustainable for you to interact because you get feedback on what you're making it helps you to know if you're making something that resonates with people and I think that that's really really helpful. That's obviously like a huge part on the on the um creation side on the product creation side of what we teach inside. Our um, luminous launch formula in our in our luminaries program but like having feedback from people is so helpful when you're early on in your business because like does this this content mean anything to anybody else like should I keep going in this direction. You know. If you are an artist and you are like literally birthing something new in the world. You may encounter a situation where what you're making is like people don't know what to do with it like but that's so rare that someone is making something so outside of the box and so new and so shocking that there isn't like a. Receptive group of people there that sort of understand it can give you feedback.
10:16.30
sandy
Yes, but I just again if you have a small audience and this is you've put something out. You've put a piece of a blog post up. For example I also wouldn't but to upset if nobody says anything like you may not get the feedback and that's okay, it doesn't mean that it's not right? You just keep.
10:20.24
heymarvelous
Ah, me sorry.
10:25.41
heymarvelous
Um, yeah I Yes, ah.
10:36.50
sandy
Going right? You just keep going So I just want to caution people to think those that are in their early stages who aren't getting any kind of engagement like don't stop right? Just don't stop. So um, it's great like I agree if someone like commented I would always comment back right? like you would you would react to that.
10:37.25
heymarvelous
Yes, ah.
10:46.89
heymarvelous
Ah.
10:55.65
sandy
But if they're not I don't think like the world is not ending.
10:57.33
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, and it just can help you though, get some ideas of what what you're saying might be controversial. You know what? you're saying whether it is something that really touches someone's heart like you might not know that.
11:14.40
sandy
Um, right.
11:14.33
heymarvelous
Before you put it out there. So when you're making something and you do get feedback. Those are really helpful breadcrumbs to help you and like deciding what direction it makes sense to go. Um, okay, um, the next element we talked about was.
11:19.61
sandy
This is the right direction right? right? yep.
11:32.94
heymarvelous
Trust so you know we've kind of alluded to this one already Sandy like why is trust so important when you're building an audience.
11:40.35
sandy
I think trust is like that's like the social credibility part like the fact that you've obviously put some thought into this. You've got some podcasts or Youtube videos or whatever it may be out there. They can sort of peek into your mind and your thinking and your way of approaching. Whatever it is your teacher coach on and like okay I get this I understand her she is the person for me. She is the teacher. So. It's like almost like being able to preview a little bit of the work and that increases the trust plus you're legit person like you've got.
12:15.27
heymarvelous
Ah, honey.
12:15.58
sandy
Some history and some um you know a track record of what you've been doing on the internet. You're not just some complete stranger.
12:21.21
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, and I would say also like oftentimes the social proof that goes along with that record on the internet is also helpful like as much as we might not like it seeing the fact that other people are following. You helps people to know that that's an.
12:27.40
sandy
Yeah, so.
12:38.73
heymarvelous
Like a legitimate thing. It helps people to feel safe whether that makes sense or not like there are entire startups that have been made around like little pop ups that show someone else signed up for this off right? like it's a whole. It's a whole thing that as it's like part of our human psychology is like.
12:40.55
sandy
Um, right.
12:50.70
sandy
Right? um.
12:56.79
heymarvelous
To follow the pack and so if you are out and you're putting your stuff out publicly your thought leadership your work on the internet and then there's there's evidence that other people are paying attention to it that just further helps you to be seen as credible for better or Worse're worse. Okay.
13:10.41
sandy
But.
13:15.62
heymarvelous
So the fourth element. We wanted to talk about is accountability this one I feel like is really helpful for someone like me so when we're talking about accountability. This is this is this idea that you have a relationship to your audience where you have publicly. Said you're gonna show up in a certain way like if you put a blog post out every Tuesday or a podcast episode or Youtube video or something like that like you start to have people that are waiting for you to deliver your content and I think especially early on again. This is so helpful to know if you're like. I'm tired this week I don't really feel like recording a podcast but you have this accountability to someone outside of yourself now right? once you started to build an audience you have group of people waiting which is great.
14:00.71
sandy
Right? It's like this is where women should just lean into this like nurturing I take other I take care of everyone kind of thoughts and beliefs like you got to take care of that audience and they're expecting your content your weekly content. So go.
14:18.21
heymarvelous
Um, yeah.
14:19.90
sandy
And deliver it and just don't let yourself off the hook. But I love the idea of like imagining like a legit audience out there like drumming their fingers on their table waiting for that podcast to drop right? like that's how you should approach it and want to serve and give this really like amazing content.
14:29.83
heymarvelous
And hope.
14:38.30
heymarvelous
Yeah I love that idea like the idea of people waiting for Taylor Swift's album to release. yeah yeah yeah I mean and that's really like I think that for me that's what I want everyone to feel about their work right? like this is my.
14:38.11
sandy
To your audience each week
14:42.85
sandy
Yeah, like refreshing, refreshing, refreshing.
14:55.20
heymarvelous
I Feel like this calling to share this idea is that like you want to be producing work that you're excited about and proud of and that like you are thinking in your mind there is a group of people here waiting for me to hit publish and waiting for this to show up for them and then.
15:08.81
sandy
Um, yeah.
15:11.75
heymarvelous
You You will do work from a different place if you think like that and operate from that position. Okay, and then the fifth and final element. We wanted to talk about related to why you should build an audience has to do with sustainability.
15:16.17
sandy
That's right, Yeah, that's right.
15:28.22
heymarvelous
And this is really kind of tying it all together right? So this is this idea that um in order to continue to have a business and to sell more things to more people you kind of need that audience like new people. New Eyes kind of constantly refreshing in your business. Whether.
15:35.81
sandy
Ah.
15:47.27
heymarvelous
You know, like ideally that audience is growing and if it isn't growing super fast at least it's like kind of refreshing and people who are done are leaving and new people are coming in and that's the most important thing.
15:55.97
sandy
Which again is like why we talk about audience so much is for that reason like if you have 30 people on your email list and 10 people on Instagram and you just constantly talk to those same same people and try to sell them the same thing.
16:14.76
heymarvelous
The note.
16:15.15
sandy
There's no business there right? like you need to have this like flow of new people who are they may be at different stages with your business on your ideas but you have to have this new like flow of people into your audience so that each time that you sell there are people who are like oh my god this is perfect I'll totally take that. Thank you very much. Right? That is a sustainableness is what you always say is like the predictable sustainable business is going to come from you doing the work to build an audience which comes from you consistently putting out incredible content each week
16:34.89
heymarvelous
Um, different.
16:47.56
heymarvelous
Yeah I think that that's a little bit of a mind I don't want to say the word like it's a little bit of a mind twister because like the work that really grows your business is not what seems like is growing your business right? Like we get really high.
16:56.39
sandy
Ah.
17:05.14
heymarvelous
We get high on launches. We get high on like big cash infusion events but like the work. The reason those things happen is because of like the random Thursday morning when you're sitting there slogging away in a blog post like that you see no immediate results from like for years.
17:12.68
sandy
Um, is as.
17:19.71
sandy
Right? right? right? Yeah and I think that the mindset of like you mentioned before like for you to actually show up and and produce each week from a place of accountability and I want to take care of my audience that is key so that when you do those launches you have.
17:23.20
heymarvelous
That's where those big launch numbers come from.
17:39.33
sandy
Have the success and I cannot tell you them number of times. What? what I can tell you because you've been there with me but people like get so excited about this thing that they've just built and they just like announce it to the world and there's so there's a lot of entitlement about like this should be selling because it's so good. But there's nobody who's listening. It's like the crowds have dispersed right? and so we just really want to emphasize the thinking for each of you around who is in my audience. How many people are joining it. What do I have to do to get the new people into the audience and just really see that just as.
17:56.27
heymarvelous
Um, and I with them.
18:15.21
sandy
Equally valuable or crucial to you doing the delivering of the program or creating the program.
18:19.70
heymarvelous
Yes, you know what? this is making me think so I I'm just gonna say this out loud I feel like if you do the work if you think of your job as being a creator who's producing free content on the internet and that is your actual job What you. Make to sell and how you make it and what what kind of shape. It is how much it costs like it's largely irrelevant like you can make money from such a diverse array of choices like it's It's just.
18:47.19
sandy
Um, perhaps.
18:53.85
heymarvelous
Actually doesn't even matter if you're focused on building and nurturing an audience of people and serving them for free like all of the rest of it is really just like then you kind of have I mean it matters and there's ways to be strategic about that which we teach but like for the most part your job.
18:57.72
sandy
Of now.
19:12.73
heymarvelous
As ah as a business owner and as an entrepreneur and as a creator is to literally show up and do this work for free like that's your primary job and if you can start to think about that it creates so much freedom for you because you don't have to think about the uncertainty and the pressure of am I going to make something that's going to take off like.
19:19.67
sandy
Um.
19:31.85
heymarvelous
Is this thing going to go viral like it doesn't just doesn't matter anymore. It's totally up to you. You can choose to make this work.
19:32.36
sandy
Yeah, yeah, no right? Yeah no I think that's exactly right? I think I think it's just a month like nobody talks about in these ways. So for those listening who maybe are new to us like you have to. Like we always lead by product right? like the product I'm gonna make this thing and it will sell but we have to flip that in the online world and like I'm going to build the audience from my brain from my thoughts from my ideas and my experience and my knowledge my expertise and then I will sell to that audience and they. Ease with which that happens is like a thousand times more than leading with the product first I've had an idea'm to go make this.
20:20.33
heymarvelous
Um, yeah I wonder how that ever happened like I wonder like I guess I guess here's here's how it happened because that used to be what worked like all of all of commerce was like. Commodities for a long time. You know like almost all of commerce and I think that I don't know that this is true but in Jenny's brain this is how the world is working and how the economy is working is that like a bigger and bigger percentage of the economy is more like non-commodified right? It's more like non-essentials like as human species. For the most part, our daily needs are taken care of and so we don't have to think about like am I going to go mind salt or whatever like we are thinking about we have like the freedom and the luxury of like free time and and like.
20:53.70
sandy
Lenna if.
21:07.76
heymarvelous
The opportunity to be like do I want to make art or do I want to write or or do I want to be a yoga teacher art like that is so unusual in the span of human history I feel like to have these chances to be like how do I want to make money like it's not just. You know your dad was a blacksmith and now your dad your husband's a blacksmith and now you know like that's how it used to be. You didn't have any choices and now we have this like incredible creative freedom and so we're like oh what do I want to make but because of that we have to do the work of being an artist which is like gathering ah a following. And like a group of patrons and whatever else like that's a different job than like showing up and like hammering the steel I don't know how you do blacksmithing burning something torching something like that's just a different job. It's not about doing the work for X hours a day. It's about.
21:45.77
sandy
Are.
22:02.64
heymarvelous
This idea of like honing a craft and practicing and getting better and drawing a crowd and gathering people like it's a very different way of making money.
22:11.44
sandy
Right? Yeah no I agree agree. It's all like privilege and comfort comes from privilege and comfort.
22:16.33
heymarvelous
It is yes, it's very Downton Abbey it really is that's we're all living in downtown Abbey we just don't know it. Wow that's it. That's a mind twist.
22:27.65
sandy
Um, all right? Let's do join hustle came.
22:33.70
heymarvelous
Okay I will do the joy. So um I spent the weekend at an event for a Youtube channel that I follow like a gathering. Which was a paid gathering again. Build an audience big enough and you can do whatever party you want make money off of it. Brilliant um, and on Saturday we did a huge volunteer event and it was like 120 families and we all came together and volunteered in a food pantry and packaged.
23:04.80
heymarvelous
Meals for I think 30000 people like it was like really tremendous and it was just a few hours in there was little. There were little kids like 2 and 3 year old kids helping all the way up to um, you know people much much older and it was just like I I think.
23:06.67
sandy
Well.
23:23.73
heymarvelous
Because of the pandemic you know most of us aren't used to these kinds of like in-person face-to-face like large gatherings and it felt so good I haven't done anything like that in so long like all of my charitable activities have been just giving money for so long which feels I know money helps as a former nonprofit.
23:27.19
sandy
The.
23:39.70
sandy
Um, and.
23:43.46
heymarvelous
Worker money to nonprofits is very helpful to those nonprofits but there's just something about like getting yourself dirty and mucked up and like physically laboring in community and it was really really special and I probably um.
23:52.28
sandy
Right? yeah.
23:59.77
heymarvelous
Pulled apart. You know 3000 plastic bags for like bagging produce and that's all I did for like 3 hours was like tear apart plastic produce bags and my fingers are all numb from it. But it's great. Yeah, it was just outside of like Sedona Arizona and Cottonwood Arizona
24:11.49
sandy
That's so cool and where was that said on it. Wow.
24:18.68
heymarvelous
And um, one of the largest like food like ah donation facilities in the country in the Us So it was cool. It was also cool to see like logistically how this like small group of people in this very rural town have like solved this problem.
24:30.25
sandy
Um, um.
24:36.43
heymarvelous
Of delivering food to people and um, it's really impressive. It was. It was great to be part of it. Yeah I'm not sure I understand.
24:43.11
sandy
Yeah,, that's really cool. It's a good weekend. Okay I have the hustle and I have the hustle and it is um to do with audience building. So We have a program called Visitz. No, that's not it. We're gonna do the quiz. Do you want quiz. Do you want visible.
24:58.64
heymarvelous
It's okay, it's okay, ah. You can do whatever you want. We were gonna do the quiz but you can do that one.
25:08.60
sandy
Okay I have the hustle and it is the program that we offer called visible so directly related to what we're just talking about if you're thinking oh that totally makes sense and I want to build my own audience. This is the program. Um, so you can head over to an she dot co slash visible. It's super short. Really like condensed teaching with um lots of um, ah content a lot of templates to make this very simple for you. So it's ah it's I don't think this is all from Jenny's brain and the way she teaches it is is brilliant and easy. And the clients in our existing programs that do it. They're doing the work and they're seeing their results and they feel it truly does simplify their business because they don't have to worry about any other marketing or paid ads or whatever. It's like my focus. My job is to do something every week and start to gather this audience around me. That's it. It's so simple and so good.
26:08.87
heymarvelous
It's extremely liberating and it's both of our brains for the record and if you haven't done it I would say like out of everything we've ever made. This is the thing that I wish I had access to early on in my like online business journey. Yeah.
26:20.71
sandy
It wouldn't change everything Jenny Millionaires but Mr Beast can't be that great I've never heard Mr. Beast.
26:25.00
heymarvelous
Everything like we would be so famous on Youtube right now we would be we would have we would be like Mr Beast we would be that. Oh my god sandy google it. It's like the biggest you he's like the biggest Youtube star sandy's son is too old to know about Mr Beast but my daughter is not she's barely not too old. So anyway.
26:40.70
sandy
Um, oh all, right.
26:52.48
heymarvelous
For the record we would literally be the most famous people on Youtube but we would have our own Netflix series like we would we would be so rich. We would have an entire line of like clothing we would have we would be on the ncaps target like that's how it would be.
26:55.59
sandy
And Rich be so rich.
27:04.31
sandy
This like is like the promise from visible is like take this program and you will be the most famous on earth and have your own line at Target and a Netflix special about your life.
27:13.70
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, well honestly like if we had known this back in like 2015 2016 it would have literally changed everything because there is like a little bit of like you know. Um, a cumulative effect here right? As a creator you're putting out content every week like it adds up over time and it's sort of snowball. So we're still we still got to podcasting early Sandy but I wish that we had figured this out sooner. But we figured it out at least and we're giving it to all of you on a platter.
27:27.41
sandy
Right.
27:34.90
sandy
Um, right right.
27:46.54
heymarvelous
For 1 low lifetime price. So.
27:46.67
sandy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly it's so great. So and she dot co slash visible all the details are there. Um, check it out if this makes sense to you and will fit in with your business. Of course it will fit into your business fits into all business.
27:58.82
heymarvelous
It will all businesses regardless of what they are okay. All right folks, we'll see you next time.
28:02.82
sandy
Ah, businesses all right. Thanks Jenny.