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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
00:03
The is so low to John, I don't even know where to start with that. I guess the problem is, and by the way, I love that question. Interesting, interesting. This isn't easy to tell. What's the solution here? Show up, understand your part, and just crush it. Pay per click, social media, we can talk about all this stuff, but what really matters is patient experience, that wow factor.
00:33
Please are you listening to yourself? Come on! What are you talking about? Yeah exactly, so sit back, take notes and listen. Oh, oh, I love this. This is gonna be...
00:49
Startup Unscripted. The questions you have with the truth you need to hear. And now your hosts, Michael Dinsio and John Bertagni.
01:10
Hey, everybody. This is Startup Unscripted. Let's get this Shark Week going. Mike Dinsio, your co-host, John, my partner and friend. Thanks for being here today. We got a big week coming up here. John, why you introduce our first guest? Yeah, this is the start of it all. This is the start of the Real Estate Shark Week, which for our viewers and listeners and followers, this is going to be your, you know,
01:39
These are your partners. These people are gonna bring you to your spaces, to the promised land for the next 17.2 years on average where you're gonna be, right? So this, to start it off, we got Brian Mills from Rome. Rome Realty Group, if I'm correct with that. And we're excited. He owns the markets in California. And so...
02:08
We definitely want to listen to what he has to say. Brian, thanks for being with us, man. Yeah. Thank you guys. Shark Week. I borrowed my wife's blouse. It's very sort of shark-esque, I thought. Maybe it's a half shirt. I got to get it back to her closet in a couple of minutes. So hopefully we can wrap up pretty quick. know what? brought this up. I'm wearing something very nautical. And I'm wearing this vest that almost looks like I have a life preserver on from the Leukotenia.
02:36
Yeah, I thought it was an umpire. Brian looks like he's Aquaman and John you look like you're fishing boat. So I and I'm very nautical I guess maybe I don't know. I don't know. It's working guys. It's all. Yeah, listen, it's a big day for me. I have cut my hair literally for the first time people may not recognize me. I've cut my hair for the first time and probably I don't know three years I had I had a
03:02
full ponytail and I'm not even in jest. Wow. This is, this is my first unveiling to the market. I love it. I love it. Thank you guys, man. I'm super stoked to be here. Shark, shark week, shark tank week, whatever it is, man. I'm, I'm, I'm super pumped and not to be a braggart here, but you can find a real estate agent. think one out of every six people in state of California is a real estate agent. If you want a real estate agent, you can get your license on a weekend.
03:30
We are negotiators. are the last thing we are is space finders. That's what you got to do at a base level. But our job is to, to hammer home on your landlords, owners, developers, et cetera. If you want to open up a startup in California, that's what you need. If you want to get off the ground and have a high performing startup and your dream practice from day one, you don't need somebody who's selling houses on the weekend and may, may be able to go find you a space out there.
03:57
You're going to get eaten by a shark if that's your strategy in this market. Boom. Man, that is perfect. like that. I love that. Episode over. Episode over. So that brings up some good points here, Brian. I'm going to go straight into it because that's what we do. know, someone coming from the East Coast right out of school or, you know, a large group practice across the country and they say, they call up your firm.
04:26
And you cover quite a bit of geographic territory and they say, Hey, all I know is I want to be in California. How do you narrow that down for this, this individual that's really putting his hope and direction in you? What happens there? Yeah, that's good question. So sometimes my biggest competitor is the doctors themselves. Anybody who says I'll go anywhere will never open. Right? Yeah.
04:53
It's just too large of a swath. You have to narrow your focus. And I say business is number one, but let's not forget the personal aspect because if you're married, if you're thinking about starting a family, if you've got friends, family, relatives, that's not ultimately the number one factor, but you have to consider that. So lifestyle is a huge factor here. I have three kids of my own that my wife does 99 % of all the work. God bless her.
05:19
You have to think where's mom and dad located? Where's your sphere of influence? Where's your friends and family? Sometimes that's number one to help sort of isolate that geographical area. If you're moving and you have none of that infrastructure whatsoever, then you go right to number two, which is solid demographics. I'm talking about demographics, what I call a feasibility or a competition study, not necessarily household income or ethnicity, all those good things. We're looking for.
05:46
pockets of opportunity where you have a demographic that you're trying to attract and where there's a need for another GP or a specialist. But you got to be careful about doing demographics because demographics are even the very best demographics out there are beholden to most of the time census information. So all you're going to get is numbers on a piece of paper. Well, most of the time the demographics guys, they send me, okay, here's a big fat gold star. And I'm like, that's great. There's a gold star here, but guess what? That's an island of homes and there's nowhere to open up.
06:16
a retail spot, a dental office, a pediatrician, you name it. There's no commercial spaces whatsoever there. So we're looking at what are those numbers and then where do we draw from that area? Because the big gold star may be on an area where there's just nowhere to open and that's why the gold star is there. So it's about understanding those numbers with also sort of boots on the ground in the trenches style strategy knowing.
06:41
Okay, where can you actually put a dental practice? You know, that's pretty consistent with, you know, with some of your peers, you know, in Chicago, you know, Rossi in, you know, Crown over on the East Coast. I mean, a lot of them take that that take that onus of saying it's not only about demographics, it's not only about where you want to be, but it's also about what you understand about that market, Brian. And, and that's a key point, what you started with in this whole thing.
07:10
you understand the healthcare marketplace and what it means to open up a practice in that area. you know, that, that, you know, to our listeners, this resonates over and over again. This is a solid point. Well, the other thing you have to weigh in that I find that most young startup doctors, it's a little bit of a misnomer, I guess, is everybody's thinking about coming out of the DSO space and retail, retail, retail. Well, there's a certain
07:38
a footprint or location, depending on what demographic you're trying to attract, right? If you're trying to attract a higher end, more affluent or a PPO trending the fee for service, the last thing you want to go is into a retail location. So it's also about knowing the mindset of the consumer and the household income, et cetera. So there's a multitude of facets that go into play when you're looking for those ideal business situations. So it's not a one size fits all, you you have to be very strategic when you're talking about
08:07
We're not just talking about startups here, right? We're talking about high performance startups, startups that heavily outperform your peers. Brian, that actually is sparking something in me. How do you, you know, I think about the startups that I've been a part of and I've, I've found that the real estate broker oftentimes doesn't find the actual location. It's something that you said right out of the gate in the beginning of the episode is, is anybody can find you a spot, but
08:37
you know, the truth is, is it's finding that the good spot, right? And using the knowledge and the data and the demographics to help guide you. So, you know, we interviewed a demographic firm on the show and he kind of gave us his ideas for what are good demographics. How do you narrow down that search to find that powerhouse spot so that we can help these guys get right out of the gate quick? Yeah.
09:04
Well, in California, it's good or bad. It's not like we're going to look at a dozen spaces. Typically, say California has less than a 2 % vacancy rate, even today. We're a totally different animal. Our landlords are not Joe Smith who owns this little retail center or this one little two-story medical building. You're typically dealing with publicly traded REITs or bazillionaires.
09:32
I always sort of say ingest, it's true anywhere that's safe to be after dark in California is going to probably have less than 1 % vacancy rate. So it's really about identifying that spot where you can pull those demographics and putting your best foot forward to beat out your competition. But it's very unlikely that you're going to have a dozen different spaces to look at, or even three, four spaces. Sometimes there's one space to compete with and you're not competing with another dentist. You're competing with a national credit retailer. You may be competing
10:03
with the likes of Starbucks for that space, or you may be competing with, you know, Hogue or Kaiser Permanente or somebody like that for these very coveted spaces. So, you know, I would say doing this every day and doing hundreds of transactions with my team every single year, oftentimes we know about these spaces before they come to the market. Not always, right? You don't ever want to say, hey, we're going to find you something that's an off-market property, but
10:30
just by being in the trenches every single day and having a reputation with the guys on the other side of the fence, you're going to get looks before anybody else does. Well, and that's through reputation and by doing not only right by the dentist, but right by those big reeds or the CBREs, what have you. So you brought up something there that I want to go back to because there's, from our perspective, as we're leading
11:00
our followers through this process, right? From banking to real estate to all the way down to fee schedules. You brought up it could, it might not be a retail space. We might be in a, actual office building or a healthcare facility type of situation. So one thing that I want to focus on, obviously there might be more opportunities, right? Because it's not a retail, right? Because, and we're talking about
11:29
about an office building, but what about the marketing dollars that we have to make sure that we hold back? Do you forewarn the clients saying, the retail space, it's already built in, your marketing a little bit. Now we're going into an office building, we might need to think about a little bit more marketing dollars or something along those lines to hold back for you guys.
12:00
Yeah. I give you my elevator pitch that I give to every single startup that I sit with at coffee for an hour and a half who, you know, listen, they, they, have one experience and that's coming out of school and typically working two years in a DSO primarily. mean, I would say that's the path for 90 % of most new grads. don't know if you guys agree with that, but, um, that's also one thing that I say, you know how there's a need for.
12:25
additional services or another practice in this market. And I always say, you know what, Doc, I bet if you called any any DSO or any corporate group around here, you could get a job in a day. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. So those groups are hiring like crazy. That tells you there's a need in that immediate area. So that's one good to kind of think one item to think about when people are talking about, you know, is it saturated? Is it too competitive? But, you know, I've been in this business for 20 years. I would say.
12:54
Easily 15 years ago, dentistry in a retail space was taboo. Would you guys agree with that? I mean, it's just not something that we did. 20 years ago, it was unheard of. Yeah, my dad was a dentist and he would always, he didn't mark it, right? He said, if you put a shingle up, that's taboo. And you're right. Now people are coming out of the DSO marketplace. And I've talked to Mike about this. In his era, it was actually
13:22
you went to the armed forces and got your chops and that's where you got your speed. So lot of these guys, this is where they're getting their speed, what not to do, what to do. And then now they're putting their lives in your hands, Brian, to say, it's amazing your teeth are so bad and your dad was a dentist. I don't know if he didn't like you you had a favorite sibling. So many other siblings.
13:46
Yeah, you must have been the youngest. started channel care to those. So a lot of what I do when I sit down with these potential startups is just to correct sort of that mindset, right? Like what type of practice do you want to have? Am I your clientele that you're looking to attract? Is it an HMO? Is it a PPO? Is it a fee for service? Is it a Denical? There's no right or wrong answer, but you've got to give me the answer. You've got to give all of us the answer so that we can help direct you because there's a very specific
14:16
strategy and tact for every single one of those answers. So, most people say, I wanna have a nice higher end PPO fee for service style practice. Okay, that's great. Well, that patient base is gonna put you in the same category they put their dermatologist and their pediatrician and that educated affluent demographic is not gonna go see their.
14:41
dermatologists, their primary care physician, their pediatrician next to a Vaughn's or an Albertson's or a Target, right? So people immediately think about, well, at my corporate job right now, we get so many walk-in patients. Okay, but what you don't think about is how many people you're losing. You think about what you're getting, but how many people are walk past that location every single day who are...
15:08
you know, educated or have a certain household income and they wouldn't think twice about walking in or picking up the phone. I know I wouldn't. Let me take the dental context out of it. I wouldn't take my kids to a pediatrician next to a target. I just wouldn't do it. That rings very corporate to me. But conversely on the other side, if you're targeting a lower demographic or it's an HMO or if it's a dentical style practice, you absolutely have to go into a retail setting because that franchise style look and approach
15:36
provides comfort and safety to a certain demographic. And sometimes my clients will sort of sheepishly put their head down or say these things. There's nothing wrong about identifying the type of demographic or the household income or even the ethnicity that you're trying to attract. These are conversations that you have to have and put everything on the table. It's like opening a McDonald's on Rodeo Drive. It just doesn't fit, right? We always talk about that though. We talk about vision first before anything else because there's
16:06
there's nothing wrong with having a high volume business plan or a spa and there's all kinds of business models in not at all. Yeah. And if you don't know that how's Brian or any real estate expert gonna know where to put you so I think that I mean, we keep coming back to a john is is vision first and then driving that through the through the team. That's what helps Brian, right? I mean, it shaves time. It makes it more
16:36
Just all around it's more efficient for everybody. Hey Brian real quick question You just mentioned something that I think is a little bit unique than the rest of the markets that we've interviewed and that is You know when you're going into a spot and you're trying to secure it and you're competing against bigger firms, maybe more sophisticated commercial Opportunities bigger businesses. You just said Starbucks you might be negotiating again. So that's that's a very
17:05
That's a very strategy focused approach where in some markets you might not have to have a crazy strategy going in with the LOI, but give me your approach or how should dentists go into that LOI mindset, just strategy into securing a good spot? Like what are some pitfalls there that you see with your clients? Hang on one second. Are you saying that
17:30
the dentist coming out of school with $400,000 of debt, their PFS is much weaker than Starbucks? Yeah, and PFS would be personal financial statement for everybody listening. And yeah, it is slightly different for sure, John. So to that point, I think what you're asking, Mike, is what angles are you suggesting your clients having in the LOI to beat out Starbucks?
17:59
Right. First thing is you've got to realize there's just some spaces you're not going to win. So this is, this is, this is big boy. This is big girl negotiations here. And you have to, you have to trust that your, your team, right? So you have to have a solid team behind you. And whether it's me or somebody else, if I tell you, have no shot at this deal, move on to fight another day somewhere else, because you're not going to get the premier.
18:25
Pad site on the corner where a bank might go you might and I've secured dozens and dozens of those but there's some opportunities You're just not gonna win or some opportunities that Financially, there's just no way that you can do a deal there So yeah, there's there's you have to look at the market and you have to know what's overly aggressive and if somebody says hey This is a non-starter here. Let's focus on another area in the LOI or something else That's what's important. You know, I can guarantee you that you're gonna
18:55
you're going to beat the market significantly with my help, but you've got to be realistic. You know, if, if something, I always put it back to residential. If you've got a house that's priced for a million bucks and it's your dream house and you know that it's within the market rate and comps will support it and you go in and you offer 600,000, do you think you're going to get a response on that? So you have to be sophisticated. have to know where to push, but you also have to understand the market and where not to be insulting.
19:22
and price yourself out of something. Because there's many landlords that will say, I just want to even entertain this and I won't come back to it. Yeah, that's so again, it's not about, you know, the deals that that we do, we're very proud of the the our our network would say, wow, that's a phenomenal deal. I've not seen those deals before. That's incredible. But sometimes it's about just beating your competition to a space because here
19:46
We just don't have enough spaces to go around. mean, think we're pushing 40 million people in Southern California, or excuse me, in all of California. Let's say there's 27 million people in Southern California and 10,000 active licenses. That's a great ratio. The market is not saturated, but with 27 million people just in SoCal, we don't have enough spaces to put everybody who wants to open up a dental practice or an ice cream store or a dermatology practice or anything else. So a lot of times it's about
20:13
beating your competition to those spaces and you're going to have an inherent exclusivity on a large swath. Nice. That's a solid answer. And I bet being quick to the answers, you know, your phone call saying, hey, we can get this. That's probably a big piece of that puzzle too. Just jumping on it when the fire's hot. Yeah. It's sort of like the old adage, the good jobs are the ones you never hear about. Yeah. It's kind of the same thing in real estate.
20:42
So here's a tough one. Here's a tough question for you. When you're talking about the lack of opportunities in terms of spaces, less than 1 % vacancy rate or 2%, and then people are inherently gun shy to deal in real estate and that whole mindset of what that looks like.
21:11
Tell us how you're compensated because a lot of people might think that you're compensated, especially if there's only 1 % vacancy rate, know, whose side are you on trying to get this space done? Tell us how that works for these guys that don't actually know how this game or this transaction works. Well, geez, how rude. I mean, we're going to talk about money and how I get compensated. yeah, we are.
21:39
That's a great question. And you know what? Most of my doctors don't ask that. And I always call it out for them. Before we leave any money, I'd say you should be asking me or you should be thinking, well, how the heck are you paid, Brian? Isn't that a conflict of interest? One great thing about real estate in all forms is as a tenant or a buyer, so whether you're leasing something or buying something, you are always afforded free representation no matter what. So if you leave a meeting and you don't like my hair or my skinny jeans or something else.
22:06
Go find another broker to represent you. Just make sure that they do two things. Number one is they do tenant buyer representation only, which means look at their website or their reputation. They cannot have listings with landlords or sellers, et cetera. You can't worship two masters out there. That's a huge conflict of interest, right? Because they're always trying to gain favor for a landlord and their, you know.
22:32
portfolio of listings. We don't take any listings. We don't represent landlords or sellers, et cetera, across the board. We don't care what they think of us at the end of the day. Our fiduciary legal responsibility is to our dentist clients only. And then number one, make sure they've at least done one dental practice and then their entire career somewhere in there. But I would say most important is make sure there's no conflict of interest and they're not representing landlords or sellers whatsoever.
22:59
And then again, number two, make sure they understand how to build a dental practice because you're building a mini hospital here at the end of the day. I could give you a whole other soliloquy of, you know, hey, listen, we're gonna show you a bunch of properties and negotiate and compare one against the other. But at the end of the day, it comes down to trust, right? How do I know I need a crown on number 19 doc? Well, I gotta trust you at the end of the day. And if you can't trust me,
23:24
this partnership's not gonna work. So you really gotta put your trust in somebody. I know that's a scary thing to do after an hour of coffee at Starbucks, but you've gotta trust in this. A lot of times that happens through multiple referrals in the network. If the lender and your consultant and your CPA and your attorney and your dealer and they're all saying the same thing and referring the same person, you're probably onto the right track. But interview multiple people and see what you think. But again, it all goes back to trust at the end of the day. You gotta be able to trust that person because
23:54
you're putting a lifelong decision in their hands. Yeah, dude, you nailed it right on the head. that single person that's representing the doctor and that's that only person's job is to get it to the finish line and look out for that person. mean, that's exactly it and the experience. And I'll tell the clients I'm in no rush. I always say the same thing. They probably get tired of hearing it. I'm very fortunate in business and I'm in no rush to do a deal.
24:23
today, tomorrow, next year. I'm your ride or die chick. will hang with you for years. So people do demographics and that's the big part of having a startup partner is to say, these are the demographics that we have to hold true to the numbers. Well, Doc, unless you're in a hurry, I'm here to hang with you. If it takes a year to find you a spot, I've got two young guys right now. It's taken almost two years to land a spot, but I told them.
24:51
in this area, something will come available. If I tell you nothing will ever come available in this market because there's just no opportunity and there's nothing on the horizon, there's no new development, we move on to something else. But if I tell you to wait and we're gonna find something, then let's wait. I'm never gonna pressure you to do a deal that's not in your best interest whatsoever. You'll never feel that from me. I think that doesn't that, that takes it home. I say the same thing to my clients. Like if you have to pay me every single hour for every time we got on the phone.
25:19
then there might be something wrong with that relationship. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and you've got to do what it takes to put in that time to make sure that that client gets in the right situation, the right opportunity, the right business plan for the right vision, the right demographics. mean, it just has to be all right. Otherwise, you're forcing the issue and that's probably why you're doing better than most, Brian. And that's because you're not forcing it.
25:47
and you are representing your clients super well, man. So I guess I'll say thank you for being a part of the program. We're big fans of you. We know your work. We know your integrity is at the highest and we appreciate you being a partner on the program. Yeah, and we're always a free advocate. So you can always reach out to us no matter what. And we're here to consult. We're here to give you advice. mean, heck, I've had, I have done deals through with.
26:15
with clients who are working with other real estate brokers or their friend and it's too late to let them go or their sister-in-law said, you know what, just let me do the deal. They can take the full commission on it, but let me get you to the finish line and make sure you're protected because the dental industry is super small and it's all about this network. Well, Brian, thank you. And that shows the type of business that you're running over there and it's why you're crushing it. So thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for wearing the Aquaman suit. That's amazing.
26:44
Thanks for cutting your hair. It's very well clothed. beautiful. No problem. Well groomed. Well groomed. Well hey, this starts off Shark Week, real estate week. We're super jacked and we got a good one to start it off. So thanks again, man. We appreciate you. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you.
27:10
Thanks for listening! Tune in next week for another true-filled episode of Startup Unscripted!
27:19
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