Fractional Leadership & Scaling Businesses - Mark Scrimenti - Entrepreneur Intel - Episode #38

In this episode, Wes is joined by Mark Scrimenti, an expert in fractional leadership, to discuss the power of fractional executives and how businesses can scale effectively using frameworks like EOS. Mark shares his experience transitioning from digital marketing to fractional COO and how businesses can benefit from having strategic support without the commitment of a full-time executive. They explore the challenges of being a visionary leader, managing growth, and the importance of setting clear goals while embracing iterative improvements.

Takeaways:
- Fractional executives bring a strategic edge to companies by focusing on specific needs while offering flexibility.
- The role of a fractional COO is often temporary, aimed at setting up systems for growth and eventually handing over responsibilities to an internal team member.
- The key to a successful fractional leadership model is regular communication, accountability, and a structured approach to planning and goal-setting (e.g., EOS, OKRs).
- Visionaries need to embrace imperfection, iterate often, and allow their businesses to evolve in response to feedback and changing market conditions.
- Building a healthy, growth-oriented culture within the company is crucial for long-term success.

Quote of the Show:
“Done is better than perfect. If you get it out there, you get real market feedback, and you just keep improving.” – Mark Scrimenti

Links:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markscrimenti/
- Website: https://vividpathconsulting.com/

Ways to Tune In:
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2I9O1Du2CFBfhGkvR1Oyem 
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/entrepreneur-intel/id1720785558 
- Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/4d7fcd6e-e68f-4855-bb8a-8f872fc5b799 
- Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/entrepreneur-intel-5556614

Creators & Guests

Host

Wes Mathews

KC

Producer

Kyle Conover

What is Entrepreneur Intel?

Welcome to Entrepreneur Intel, a podcast where we discuss the most important strategies for success from amazing entrepreneurs. Host Wes Mathews sits down with business owners to learn about how they got started running their own business, what helped them succeed and the biggest lessons they learned along the way.

Be sure to catch new episodes every Thursday morning, and to make sure you never miss out on any insights, don’t forget to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, You Tube or wherever you get your podcasts.

This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, your Fractional CMO. Stealth provides the roadmap and accountability to reach your business and marketing goals. Learn more at https://stealthconsulting.com/

EI - Mark Scrimenti
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Intro: [00:00:00] This is the unfiltered truth about entrepreneurship. Raw. No VS. No sugarcoating. Welcome to Entrepreneur Intel. I'm your host, Wes Matthews. Each episode, we'll learn from experienced founders and uncover the top 5 percent learnings that led to their success in all things personal, family, and business.

This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, delivering clear marketing strategies, ROI, and no surprises.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: I am super excited for today's guest. Uh, he's an entrepreneur who is purpose driven to help other entrepreneurs achieve their growth objectives. He's helped execute an innovative growth strategy that delivered a hundred million in organic sales and triple, tripling profitability. He's a business coach, strategic advisor, fractional COO for SMBs and startups, founder of VividPath LLC.

Welcome, Mark Scrementi. Welcome.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Thanks, Wes. It's great to be here. [00:01:00] Thank you for having me.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Absolutely. Well, just like any good entrepreneurs, I think this is like our sixth or seventh attempt to get to this day, but as the world goes on, happy, super excited, happy that you're here. It's been a long time coming, but here we are. I have to ask you, I ask every guest, you, you founded VividPath five years ago.

What's the most important lesson you've learned thus far?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Let's do it. And by the way, um, didn't get to the setup at first. Can I switch you? Uh, you're at the bottom, at the top, or is it fixed? Are we fixed here?

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: You can, if you condense this, close your,

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: close your window a little bit.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: And it will flip it.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Is this, are we going to start over

now?

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: go ahead.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: okay. All right.

Um,

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: uh, answer that [00:02:00] question on one, two, three, and then

producer will pick right back up.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: I'll re ask it

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Okay.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: one, two. So you founded Vivid Vision, Vivid Path, five years ago. What's the most important lesson you learned thus far?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: I think the most important lesson I've learned is that most small businesses, and we know it's a fact, most small businesses don't. survive, uh, after a few years, something like 10 fail. But beyond that, even the ones that don't fail. Or within that time frame, aren't doing the basic things that larger businesses have learned how to do in order to overcome some of these growth obstacles and move on to the next phase.

So they, and they keep evolving over time and growing. It's the basic stuff like strategic planning. They don't know how to do strategic planning. And, and for, you know, for example, like I've seen professional services firms, these are highly [00:03:00] intelligent, competent people. They're, they're very good at what they do, but when it comes to running a business because they don't have the experience or they don't have the person in house who knows how to grow, scale a business, they'll do one of those two day planning retreats and, you know, very expensive.

They'll fly people to a destination location and they'll spend two days Strategic planning, they'll come away with a random to do list that is really just like a hodgepodge of And they're not on the same level. Some of them are like fragments of vision statements. Some of them are specific projects or a product launch.

There's no timeframe. They're undifferentiated. They're all kind of lumped together and it's not very actionable. You can't prioritize that list. Some of these things shouldn't be on the same list. You know, they're all, and so this is just an example of basic stuff that small businesses, small to mid sized businesses just don't have. don't know how to do. And it's surprising how basic [00:04:00] some of this stuff.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: So, you know, estimating around like eight to 10 businesses fail within the first couple of years. I mean, at the foundational level, like as a COO, my assumption is. I have a lot of experience with CEOs. I'm more of like the visionary integrator, right. From an, from an EOS model,

but you know, having a COO or an operator mind can kind of come in and help kind of help itemize and prioritize, you know, those items that need to be tackled.

What I see from my visionary seat. Yeah. People focusing on the wrong things or not paying attention to sales or, you know, for me, sales solves a lot of problems and who's owning that, who's focusing on that, what, what do you see like from a tactical perspective, if you're like, Hey, these eight out of 10 businesses that are kind of go down that path, how do they shift their mindset and what do they need to focus on?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Well, you know, right people in right seats is, is a big one. And that's pretty fundamental. That's your Jim Collins getting the right people on the bus. So often [00:05:00] most of the businesses I work with have been around for a few years. So they have a product market fit. They have, and, and I work primarily with professional services, businesses, creative services, businesses, digital marketing, SEO, brand strategy, companies like that. And, um, So they, they have a service offering and they're making some money. They have revenue, but they may have the same people in, uh, for a long time and they've just accrued different responsibilities over time. And so their job descriptions are muddled. Um, they're just kind of taking on whatever needs to be done at the time.

Often this is the founder CEO too, is, you know, wearing all these different hats. And this doesn't scale because, um, it's, it's a very reactive model. And, you know, it's just like, they're just keeping up with the day to day, but it's this key distinction. Uh, maybe you and I have talked about it, but you know, the Michael Gerber distinction between working on the business and working in the business. [00:06:00] So they're in day to day, can't see the forest for the trees. They're having the same conversations over and over again. They're wondering often why, you know, why are my employees not getting more done or why aren't we growing? Or, you know, why don't we seem to be, you know, going where I want them to go.

And it's because they're stuck in that day to day working on the business and they need a framework and they need cycles and to carve out some time specifically to work on the business versus in the business. Um, and so, and this is where you start to sort some of these things out, like job descriptions, job definitions, and you get a real It has to do with standardization, right?

You know, standardizing everything so that it's just great, rational, clear, and you can change it, you can scale it, you can tweak it, you can reassign people, and so forth.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: My assumption is that, you know, most, most, if not all companies are started by a visionary entrepreneur. And if I think about [00:07:00] the first two years. Is it because the visionary is just like focused on growing the company for two years and they just don't even think about the systems processes or an operator because COOs are expensive, right?

So if you're startup, you're being mindful of cash, talking about right person, right seat. I have a little bit of experience around this because of my first company that I sold in 21, I brought a COO in at the tail end of the company. Uh, the company I started stealth in December, that was like one of my first hires.

Because I knew from my own experience, like I'm a terrible operator. Um, I'll just kind of vision and go, go, go.

So I was like, I need to bring in a full time COO. And somebody's like, you're crazy. Like, that's really expensive. But I'm like, Do you know how much it's going to cost me longterm if I don't?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Right, right. Well, that's wise. And so it sounds like you learned from your first experience. And I agree with you, it's an investment. And it's often an investment that Um, [00:08:00] people don't wanna make, or, you know, it's a lot of money upfront and it, it takes that long-term vision to understand, to think of it as an investment and to understand it in that perspective.

And I think, you know, you having gone through the experience once gives you that, that insight. But, um, the, the, it's interesting too. One of the things I've learned, so I was in, I've been in operations for over 15 years and, um. A lot of the stuff that you do at first, even from an operational standpoint, unless you're starting with a framework, something like EOS, like the entrepreneurial operating system, um, you're kind of doing what you need to do and, and you figure it out as you go. Um, but you don't necessarily have a discrete methodology or, um, you know, framework that you're working with. And then you spend the next several years figuring out, how do we do that? What did we do and codifying it? That's, that's the beauty of something like EOS. Um, and. I assume your viewers know what EOS is, or do we need [00:09:00] to define it, the

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: You want to define a little bit. I think, you know, a lot of people are familiar, but give your perspective on the framework.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah, so it's, it's a system, it's a, they call it a business operating system, you could say a business management framework is another way to look at it, it's really a methodology for operating a business, and it's for small to mid sized businesses primarily, but these can be businesses up to almost a billion dollars in revenue, I mean it, it, it scales and it works for, for most businesses. Pretty universal, right? So, uh, Gina Wickman wrote the book Traction and several other books have come out of that, um, you know, Wes is, is an implementer, so he knows this really well, um, the system is used by hundreds of thousands of businesses around the world. And, um, it really, um, it's sort of put together all the, the best literature and about performance and organization building and, and running, you know, management, uh, Management theory into a [00:10:00] simple system that any business can use to organize their operations, scale it, make sure you have the right people in the right seats.

You've defined your job functions clearly. You define where you want to go, by when, how you're going to get there, what your vision is, your mission, your purpose, and then your goals. And you're working, you know, quarterly on a 90 day basis to, to work on rocks. That's the, that's the um, the metaphor of if you want to get a whole bunch of stuff into a jar, um, and make sure that it all fits, you start with the, the rocks first, and then you do the pebbles and then you do the sand and then you put it in the water and it all fits. If you do it the other way around, it spills over. Um, so rocks are your big priorities, your quarterly priorities that, you know, your leadership team takes on in a quarterly basis. That's primarily to work on the business that's building out capacity so that you can scale. with scale or for scale. Um, I don't long winded answer, but, but you know, it's a great [00:11:00] framework and it works for most businesses and you can tweak it and customize it to make it work for you.

And I work with other frameworks as well. That's a really good one. And having a framework, that's another, you know, in terms of lessons last five years. I, every business I think needs a management framework, an operating system, and I don't care what it is. If it's EOS, I'm certified at a different one called System in Sol, which I like too. Um, they're, they're similar. They, you know, they enhance each other, but the point is, uh, without a framework, you're kind of, um, You could be directionless and you can waste a lot of time, a lot of activity, a lot of rowing, but you may be rowing in circles because you don't know where you're going and, um, and therefore you don't really have a roadmap to get there.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Yeah, I feel, uh, I agree with you. I'm like, it doesn't have to be EOS, but like pick something right. And I think what really opened my eyes and why I chose EOS for my businesses, and I've kind [00:12:00] of vowed that anything I'm involved with has to, Implement EOS, even if it's self implemented. But for me, what was a game changer?

I almost look at EOS and I don't say this in any disrespect. It's like entrepreneurial company for dummies. Like it's one plus one is two. It's not super fancy. It's not super complicated. You know, a lot of people are intimidated about frameworks and systems and all these different things. But really for me, the, the VTO, the vision traction organizer is a really important document for a visionary.

Because it takes all of your ideas and everything going on in your head and you have to put it on paper. And I think if you're a true visionary, that's kind of scary. It's really difficult to do. You know, I had somebody last week, I'm in like a Facebook community of all these entrepreneurs, and she was really struggling with.

One of her partners, and she was kind of asking for help. And I jumped on a zoom and we started talking and I said, my, my experience share is like, have you done a VTO for the business? Because she's like, we're going in all different directions. My partner, I aren't aligned. [00:13:00] And I said, have you done a VTO?

And she's like, Oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that. She got back to basics and put her plan in place, presented that to her partner and they both kind of refined it, shaped it now they're in lockstep with that plan. Now they can continue on for me. It's like, Holy cow. That's real simple, hard to do, but

me, that's a North star of any business.

And it's super important that you're dialed into that. And I would assume that eight out of 10 businesses, it all lives in their head. They're not putting this stuff in writing.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Exactly. And what do you think it is that's so scary about putting it down on paper?

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Cause it's kind of a final, final, right. And I think entrepreneurs, if they're anything like me, I can change my mind really relatively quick. You

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: You don't want to be pinned down.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: yeah, don't want to be pinned down, you know, change what's hard. Right. I mean, if you're an entrepreneurial company, I think a visionary is constantly changing, constantly evolving.

And they call it in EOS, it's called organizational whiplash. It's really hard for the [00:14:00] organization to keep up. So, again, I think I'm megaphoning all this to highlight the importance of an integrator and or COO. Because you guys come in and wrangle that visionary and kind of keep them in check, right?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Right. Right. That, that is a big part of the job. And, and to your point, um, Putting it, you know, like extracting this information that resides only in the visionary's head is the first step. It's like scaling Wes's brain, you know, and otherwise it stays there. And, and there's a lot of assumptions too. I think the stuff that's obvious to you, cause it's, you're thinking about it all the time and you're operating, uh, under the assumption that this information is kind of out there cause it's, it's, front and center in your head, but nobody actually knows what's going on in your head.

So the first step is getting it down on paper. And like you said, it's simple, but not easy. And this is some of the hardest work. And it goes along with that lesson of businesses, [00:15:00] not doing the basic stuff, not knowing how to do the basic stuff. They may even know it. Usually they know like, Oh yeah, I think I should do that.

Or that makes sense. Or I've heard about that, that, you know, I should probably do that. But they don't necessarily see the value of it until they do it. And, and it is harder than it seems, deceptively simple. Um, but once you get what, once you get it down on paper, like in your VTO, um, which is really your, your strategic roadmap and it becomes your decision making framework for everything. And you can point back to it. And it's like, cause you've got a million ideas as a visionary. That's, that's common. And, and, you know, the ADHD, the, I call it the platinum squirrel, you know, I've got this, uh, platinum squirrel trophy that I can award people. Like that's the platinum squirrel, uh, you know, moment of the day where, you know, you're, you're you're just taken by whatever the next idea is that runs past your, your eyes. Um, but, [00:16:00] um, man, I lost my track there. So, uh, my, uh, the point being that you get it down on paper and it becomes your decision making filter. Um, and if it doesn't align, if this shiny new idea doesn't align with. Um, the roadmap, then we're not going to do it. Um, or it's a lower priority and it helps you. Um, that's another thing is this distinction in versus on the business.

Um, a lot of people mix the two up and they'll have just a big to do list. And they'll say, well, I got to get this done, this done. They're not all equal. This part of the job, this is the status quo. This is your day to day production systems. You got to do this to keep the lights on.

But if you want to grow. Then you got to carve out time in its own, um, special cycle. I mean, I, I have my own theories about this. Like I like to use Agile Scrum, you know, in a real product development, uh, mindset for building out, um, [00:17:00] The operational infrastructure of your business. So for example, a ROC, you know, a quarterly project for somebody might be like installing a new CRM.

Um, and that sounds pretty straightforward, but that's, that's a big project. And, um, You need to carve out time each week to work on that. And you're going to need to talk to other people on the team to make sure that it's set up the right way. And you're going to need to keep checking in to make sure it gets done.

And if you don't do that, it never gets done. Um, because if it's the marketing director's task, um, they've got plenty of things to do. They're just trying to keep up with their day to day and that can always be pushed off and pushed off and pushed off. And that's how businesses remain stuck is they don't, they don't, develop the, the, the, habits and the discipline, the cycle, you know, the cyclical discipline to put something in on a list in, in a cycle and pursue it according to priority until it's finished [00:18:00] and then implement it and, and move on to the next priority.

So it, it just takes breaking down that big vision into smaller pieces and breaking those into smaller pieces and, and just biting them off. you know, in priority order. It's, it's a lot of discipline, I'd say, like process discipline. And now discipline, again, is also scary, right? It's the word is scary. Um, and how do

you do it?

How do you hold people

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: I just twitched a little bit as you're talking, you know?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah, I, I noticed the discomfort and, and, you know, I think everybody feels that. Um, and quite honestly, I have some visionary instincts myself. So it's not necessarily my favorite thing to do, but it's what I know I need to do in order to, Another company. be successful or if it's my own business to help my own business be successful is to use, to rely on those structures, to let them do the heavy lifting.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: So I'm curious around, like you [00:19:00] focusing as a, as a, as a fractional COO, you know, when, when do founders reach out to you or like, what, what's that massive pain or like what triggered event happens where they're like, I've got to do something because I, to me as a visionary, like something has to happen you're like ready to put your head through a wall or something, right.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: see? Like, what are some of those big, cause I think there's a lot of people that it's like that game of double dutch or like, you know, that jump rope game kids play. Like, when do you jump in? Like, when's the right time to do this? Right. Cause a COO is a big role, whether you're full time or fractional, there's got to be like harmony with that visionary.

What do you see out there?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah. And it's probably, it's like having, you mentioned that you have five kids, you know, it's having, it's having children, it's getting married, like there's no perfect time to do it. At some point you just have to take the leap. Um, it, it's always going to be the live game double [00:20:00] dutch. Um, Which is a great metaphor, but I usually something. There's been some kind of, um, um, setback, you know, where, um, either they, they lost a lot of money, or they anticipated being, you know, You know, further along than they are. They had a bad year. Um, somebody quit and then left them in a, in a really bad spot. Or, um, could be, yeah, there's usually, there's two categories.

There's, there's the people who aren't growing and want to be growing or they're like last year they grew, but then, or the year before last year they grew, but then they were back down again, it's like, oh, you know, they can't sustain that, that steady growth curve. Um, or they're growing. But they, um, they're growing sort of out of control and things feel chaotic because they know how to sell, but they don't have the delivery infrastructure in place [00:21:00] to keep up with the sales.

So they're, you know, they're going to end up churning clients. They're already, um, pissing people off because they're not delivering what they promise. Uh, they're, they're not delivering the quality and so forth. They may be having the same conversations over and over again and then wondering why things aren't changing.

They've usually tried several different things, like maybe they tried EOS once or twice, and it didn't stick, um, either because they didn't have the right person, they didn't have the right integrator, or they didn't stick with it long enough or both. Um, so, Those are some of the things I see. I'm trying to address your question directly. So you're saying like

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: No, yeah, you kind of, you kind of hit it. Right. I also think for me, it was, I finally had a realization that I was causing all the problems.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: hmm,

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: You know, like I kept looking externally to be like, who's messing this [00:22:00] up. And I had to kind of look in the mirror and be like, man, there's a common denominator here, like, you know, and I finally woke up and, you know, cause look, I think as a visionary, you're leading the company.

You have employees. And from my perspective, you have a lot of people that wanna make you happy. And they're Yes men, they're not gonna stand up to you, uh, for the most part, right? Because you have to realize like you're giving 'em a paycheck. Um,

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: you have a lot of power.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: that's a, that's a, that's a fine dance. Yeah. I was just curious.

'cause you know, I, I think it's because I'm really bought into the concept of, you know, A COO can can change. Um, you talk about delivery, like founder led sales and just selling, selling, selling, but then who's looking at the deliverable, right? Who's building out the programming or whatever that looks like.

It's hard to be everything, right? Um, and that's why I love the fractional. And is that why you, like, why did you get in as a fractional? Because I feel from my visionary perspective, that's a step in, right?[00:23:00]

Like I can't afford it. Cause I'll hear that from, from entrepreneurs. I can't afford it. It's like, well, hire a fractional.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: right, right. Exactly. And that's, that's the beauty of that model is that you can buy little increments of it. You know, you used to have to buy the whole thing, you know, like the 84 week course of treatment or whatever. And now you can buy one week at a time. And, uh, and I'm glad to hear you say it, though, Wes.

You know, so, uh, you know, like I realized that I was causing all these problems and, and, um, it's better to come from you than from me. But I think, um, that that kind of level of insight, self awareness, honesty, Vulnerability. I mean, that's great leadership. And I do think it takes that self awareness by the CEO at some point.

And it's, you know, the truth is, yeah, sure. Maybe you're causing the problem, but you're also got the business where it is. I mean, so you deserve credit and, and, and entrepreneurs, I think [00:24:00] often don't get the credit they deserve because You know, at some point people are like, well, you know, he's so hard to work with.

He's always changing his mind. He's meddling and, and he's, you know, keeps changing his mind. And, um, but, um, the truth is that, you know, you, you, you start this business. This is, this is the visionaries, you know, character and, and. And, you know, and they, you do a lot of things really well that people, that other people couldn't do.

And you take the risk, that's huge. You know, you have the courage to do it and to, you know, like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Just the DIY, I'm going to figure it out and you do it. And that, you know, is to be applauded. And, but it does get to the point where you're wearing the 16 hats and you're doing things that aren't, you know, You may not be the best at, or even if you're good, you may still be the best person in the company, but as long as you're doing those things, you're never going to, um, All your time is occupied.

You're working 60 hours or 72 hours a [00:25:00] week and you're not focusing on your highest and best value, which could be sales. You know, it often is for that person because they're the, they're the, the wizard. They, you know, cause they know, they understand the needs of their clients really well and they know how to talk to them and identify those needs and find a, you know, the fit, you know, like between what service we can deliver to you and what you actually need. Um, but. You know, in order to free you up to do that, we got to get you out of some of those other roles and Um, I, I agree also you mentioned like, yes, people, yes, men and women and all kinds of yes things and, and point being that I think sometimes a founder CEO doesn't recognize the power they have, you know, by virtue of their position, if, if nothing else, you know, you have the, you have the power to make or break people's lives in a sense. So they're, they're like, you know, it, [00:26:00] it takes some courage and, and, or, or maturity at least, you know, to realize, no, I got it. I got to stand up. I got to push back and to know when to do that. So this is, I think some of the value of bringing in somebody who's experienced. So like, I can say like, like, I'm comfortable talking to you, Wes, as you know, uh, founder, uh, business owner and, you know, more in a peer to peer relationship where we're planning this business together.

Like, I want you to succeed. Like my passion is for my client's businesses to succeed. And fortunately I'm at a stage in my career now where not always, but in, you know, my, My preference is to work with people whose visions, purpose, values align with my own. So I can really get behind that and say, look, I really want you to succeed.

And that to me, I define my success. I measure my success by, you know, how many businesses I can help. You know, to achieve their fullest potential, um, that [00:27:00] sustainable profitability, that's whatever impact they're looking to make, you know, what human lives they want to change. That's how really how you measure impact.

It can be your own employees. It can be your, your customers. It can be the communities that you operate in. It could be whatever you're, you're, you're most passionate about in terms of, uh, causes that your business will support, um, all kinds of things. But, um, And then let's do this together. Um, let's work on this together.

My, my, I work for you. I serve you. And my goal is to take what you envision and, and make it a reality. And, and that's what I've been practicing for, for years. And it is a practice like you never, you never master it. And every, every business is unique in its own ways. I mean, there's a lot of universals

and then there's a lot of just particulars.

Right.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: I've been in, I was in digital marketing for like 17 years, sold that company, on for [00:28:00] two years. And then kind of, what do I want to do when I grow up for six months? I had personally never heard of the word fractional up until like the end of last year. And I'll never forget somebody said it to me and I'm like, you're going to hire somebody and they're going to fractionally care about you.

Like, but then I started digging in and I'm like, holy cow. Like, I love your analogy of like the 84 week plan. Now you can buy in small bites. I'm like, wow, I've been around the block and I've hired executives or C levels or really expensive individuals. And I'm like, They're kind of only working fractionally anyway as a full time employee, right?

And it always didn't work out because my kind of pursuit was I would Hire the right person, right, that I thought, and like put all that responsibility on them, thinking that they're going to come in and change the company and do all these things. Not really realizing that they need a strategy, they need to be led, managed, held accountable, which is that its own [00:29:00] layer of work I wasn't really doing.

So I love this idea of fractional, but how do you overcome that old school objection of I need somebody here nine to five. You know, I need you to understand my business. Like, how do you respond to this new age idea?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think, yeah, like the kind of butts in seats mentality, especially when it comes to operations. Like people are more comfortable typically with fractional CFO, you know, like, well, he, you know, he or she can show up once a month and, and, and. look at my books and, and help me, you know, uh, with my P& L.

But, um, what about operations? Doesn't that person need to make sure everyone's doing their job on a day to day basis and all that? Uh, first of all, if, if that's what your concern is, you've got, you know, deeper issues, um, you, this is about accountability, I think is what, What I'm implying here, and that, that is a big question that [00:30:00] people have.

And you also have to hold your, your fractional people accountable. Like, how do you know? Yeah, that's a big investment. There's a big check that I'm writing. How do I know that, you know, after a month, they're going to deliver and, and how do I keep them accountable? How, you know, especially in a remote or all, you know, all remote environment, which almost all my clients are remote and that's just more common these days. I think, um, a lot of it has to do with. The relationship between the, the founder, CEO, the CEO and the CEO, you need to meet regularly. You need to make sure you're on the same page. You need to be very clear about priorities. So going back to the VTO and all the stuff that's in, EOS or System in Sol is the one that I use.

We got it. We got a roadmap. It's very similar to the VTO. You need to make sure that it's done or that you have something like that. And just, and keep in mind too that it's, it's a draft and, and talk about like, you know, getting stuff down on paper can be scary. We were talking about that [00:31:00] earlier and you know, it's fixed now.

Um, um, can I change my mind? Of course you can change your mind, um, but we do that iteratively and we do that in a structured, planned way. We're going to revisit this on a regular basis. You can revisit it any time if you want, but, um, just know that nothing needs to be permanent. It's not etched in stone, but having something, having a draft down, a strategic plan that's a draft at the least, um, is better than nothing at all because it gives you direction. And so, And then you keep iterating and clarifying as you go. And that's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of any kind of framework. OKRs is another way to do it. Objectives and key results. You know, this is a goal setting methodology where you start out like What do we want to accomplish and how are we going to know that we've accomplished that?

Like, what are the measurable things we can say? Hey, if we do this, this and this, we check those off. We could say, yes, that's done. Yes, it's done. We will have accomplished that objective and getting that right is hard. You may think, Oh yeah, I do these five things. I've done that thing. You're [00:32:00] like, realize, no. We didn't think about this other thing that is essential. Yeah. Those five things are necessary, but not sufficient. Um, and, and so the point is that communication is a big part of it. Can we, and especially between the CEO and the COO. And then I think you're getting that your leadership team on the same page, you know, so when you're doing EOS, you, you know, the fractional COO is the integrator as well. And, and so they're leading the meetings and they're, they're holding people accountable. To, um, getting done. Getting the things done that they're supposed to get done. And, and I think if you set people up for success, most people really want to succeed. They don't want to let you down. Accountability kind of takes care of itself if you have the right people. But, um, you have to set them up for success first. And then, and then, and then, and then The system really works to hold them accountable because they have to show up at the meeting at the L10 [00:33:00] every, at the leadership meeting every week and say, Hey, I didn't do what I said I was going to do. And then you're like, well, why

not?

Let's talk about it. Yeah, well, right. It's a little uncomfortable, but it's, it's what, You get comfortable being uncomfortable and you have to do that to grow like that's key to growth no matter what

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: What's funny that we're talking about this because we actually interviewed somebody yesterday and I'm a very transparent guy and I, I try to personally scare people away first,

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: yeah Yeah,

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: And my COO, she said, well, what's going to be one of the most challenging things for me? And he looked at me and said, his mind moves way faster than the organization can handle.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: that's that's a great answer.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: and the reason why he's here is to help throttle me and be my filter for the organization because I need to get brought back to basics, which basics for me is staying true to that BTO. We had a conversation the other day, so we did a three, you know, my favorite part of a VTO is the three year goal vision [00:34:00] strategy.

And we had a conversation and I got to use it. I was really excited. So we're talking about a new product or something. And I said, does that help us get it, get us closer to this, or does it create more, you know, and we all looked at each other and said like, let's move on. So I think from a visionary, it helps you stay out of the weeds, And it helps you stay focused because you said you give away a platinum squirtle award.

I mean I have inputs coming in my mind even as i'm sitting here talking to you looking at your guitar chair I'm looking at like all these things are going on in my head.

But the reality is this VTO is gold because It helps you connect with your company. You can have conversations with your team about what they're working on, how it's going.

It took it, it took me from like scaring people in my company when I'd come up and talk to them to like, Hey, tell me about that CRM implementation. Like, that's really cool. And they're like, Oh, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Like, let me show you. And it just really connected the company. And I, and I'm a big believer that as a visionary, like what you put your sites on, you'll [00:35:00] do.

But you have to commit and you have to show up to your team and be accountable just like everybody else.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: right, right Or it doesn't work and I've seen that too where that the the visionary wants EOS or some kind of framework for everybody And like, no, your company is not big enough yet and you're way too integral to the, the, the company success for you to, um, not play by the same rules you have to play by or it undermines it anyway. But it's, it's almost like just that, like, nope, like, like, like Wes, like, You know, like, just keep turning you towards that. It almost doesn't matter how detailed it is or what's on it, but if it's directionally in the right, going the right way, you'll, you'll refine it as you go. For now, it's just like, no, we gotta keep looking at the same

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Yeah. And I, and I think what's important for me in my experience, it's don't expect to get it right the first go around. Um, you know, as we are creating rocks, my, my goal is like, don't change it mid flight, like wait the [00:36:00] 90 days and learn from it, reflect back on the rocks and say. Was that a good rock?

What we found is we would set rocks and we would not really, you know, think about the strategy, the development, you know, we kind of made an acronym, like buy in, roll out, like there was a lot of steps and projects that we would just skip, so we started using that acronym SMART, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, timely, that kind of helped us, but just know, like.

You're never going to get it right. It's never going to be a hundred percent. It's always a work in process. Um, I feel like I'm, I'm kind of a sub opt in this and I still screw up all the time. It's still really hard. I want to change my mind. So yeah, I think as a visionary, you always want to strive for a hundred percent, but just know that no system's going to do that for you, but it just gives you really good guardrails in my opinion.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Exactly. No, I, I, I completely agree. And I've become a big fan. And I have perfectionistic instincts as well. And I think most visionaries do. [00:37:00] They've got, they've got a gift. They've got talent. They, they, um, quality matters. They want to do things well. And, and, and even there's a sense in which nobody's going to care about as much as I do, or, you know, care about the details as much as I do, or they're not going to be as good as I am.

And that may be true. In some cases, though, it's an illusion because in reality, they're just going to do it differently. And it doesn't, you know, in a different way is, is, you know, Could even be better. Um, but, but the point is that, um, done is better than perfect. I've, I've come to embrace that and, and all things lean, you know, like the, the lean, um, the lean startup, you know, you start out with an MVP, this idea of an M a minimum viable product, it's going to suck and you're going to hate releasing it, this is, you know, a product metaphor, um, but it works for companies as well. You're going to hate releasing. Cause it's going to be, it's going to be ugly. It's going to have bugs, you know, it's, it's, you know, I'm putting my This is me, this is my baby. I'm putting it out there and it's an ugly baby. But the point is that you [00:38:00] learn that way. You get out there quickly. You get real market feedback, which is, you know, it's a really good test. Market place is a great testing ground, you know. And, um, the people, the early adopters are going to embrace it, you know, warts and all, and they're going to give you great feedback. And you just, you know, that two weeks from now, if you're doing, you know, Agile Scrum or whatever your sprint, you know, cycle is, you're going to have improvements out there and it's going to gradually, continuously improve. And I think that's, every business has to operate that way these days, no matter what industry you're in, because things are changing so fast. Otherwise you're going to get Disrupted from below or crushed from above. You got to keep evolving and changing like, you know, that's another, it's a, it's cliche, but you know, change is the only constant, like embracing that. And that's hard, and that's how you get towards mastery and excellence, I think.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Well, I feel like a lot of my sphere of influence, like I, you know, [00:39:00] There's a lot of people around me right now that Q3, Q4, like the economy, you know, it's all these challenges coming. And I'm like, I love being a fractional because it makes our case that much stronger, right? So like, are you trying to hook up with a company long term or do you have a vision of like, I'm going to go in for two years and hand this off to like, what's your perspective

of the role?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: yeah. And I'm glad you keep bringing it back to fractional. I kind of keep forgetting that that's what we're talking about here. To me, it is a temporary, it's not a permanent thing. My goal is to work myself out of a job. If I've done my job successfully, At least in theory, um, I am getting the company into position, uh, to be able to hand off that chief operational role to somebody else.

Whether that's a, a hire, it could be a full time hire, it could be, um, often it's somebody [00:40:00] inside the company who has that potential, they may be younger and they need some mentoring and coaching, um, And they may not have the experience level yet to make strategic decisions. But if you can set things up, align all the systems and so forth in the strategy so that they're just managing the process, that can work. Um, but the idea is to, Get in, spend a fixed amount of time there, which can vary, uh, depending on where you're entering and what the goals are and then handing it back off again in better shape than it was. Okay. Now you guys are good. You know, are you good? If you're good. All right. My work is done here. I move on to the next thing.

And that's satisfying to me too, because it keeps me interested, you know, always a new challenge and a new opportunity.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: awesome about that is we have two different perspectives Which is and i'm very clear with my team around I I agree with [00:41:00] that, but I also i'm sitting in a position of If we can add the value and continuously add the value, they'll never need to hire a full time and constantly reap that reward and savings.

So my culture is, you know, we want to stay long term. Now, if the client, if it makes sense, right? Hey, my sister's cousin's brother's daughter just graduated and I really want her to be, like, there's always those circumstances, but my philosophy is, you If we're able to move the needle, we can continuously grow in this role and add resources.

So, and the reason why I mentioned that is this is a really good CEO, COO debate, right? Because what's healthy and smart for the organization, you might be like, Wes, you're nuts. Like the market doesn't like that. Like, so this is what's really good, I think, about a CEO and a COO because Just that difference of vision needs to be crystal clear within an

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Yeah. Right. I agree with you. And I mean, I love your vision. And clearly, you know, it's, it's better for the fractional. It's like, [00:42:00] and you, you do want that in on some, or you may want that, um, if you've got a good relationship with a client and things are going well, why wouldn't you continue it? But the, but the assumption there, I think, is that you're growing and that you're continuing to grow. And to me, like, if you're not growing, if I'm not helping you grow. Or if I'm not even, if I'm not preparing you for growth, um, you know, and, and scaling, you know, scalable growth, um, then I'm not doing my job. But, but if, if we are, and, and that, and we're clicking and we're kind of paced together, then let's keep going, you know, cause I think there, I think there is that potential and that's where maybe like marketing might be different.

Cause it's, it's, it's RevOps, you know, like you're, you're, you're, you're It's top of line stuff. Although to me, that's ultimately, it's all, all of a piece. It's, it's a whole, like, you know, that's what I'm thinking of too. It's like, you got to keep growing and, you know. If only to afford me, you got to

keep growing.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: the beauty is I, I talked to a friend of [00:43:00] mine, like real successful entrepreneur. And the beauty is I'm like, these problems never go away. They just change and evolve.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Right,

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Oh, you know, in six months, all this is going to calm down and I'll have nothing. And I'm like, and then the next things are going to pop up.

Right.

And cause he was like, he, he written, he wrote down all these things on a whiteboard. And he's like, I have all these problems. Can you kind of like be a sounding board to help me solve these? And I said, you just need to hire a COO. Like, you know, you're never going to have a shortage of problems.

Like that's the beauty of being an entrepreneur. Like it's always something.

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: right. It's kind of like Zeno's Paradox, you know, where you go halfway there and halfway there and halfway there, but you never get there at that pace because

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: I've met a lot of consultants in my lifetime. And one thing that stuck out to me from this gentleman, he said, Wes, this was like when I was early startup, like 15 years ago, he said, every business has the same problems. It's just different zeros at the end of the, you know,

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: yeah, yeah [00:44:00] That's true

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: you know, and, uh,

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: from my

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: it's interesting.

So no, Mark, I really awesome talking to you. Uh, really glad to have the opportunity to sit down with you. Uh, if there's any visionary, any, anybody listening, that's like, huh, something resonated with them. They want to get ahold of you. What's the easiest way for somebody to reach out to you?

mark-scrimenti_1_08-13-2024_090934: Thanks. I think LinkedIn is the simplest. I'm there, uh, Mark Scrementi on LinkedIn. I can send you my URL and, um, just send me a connection notice. Say, you know, you saw me on Wes, Wes's, uh, podcast or however you want to introduce yourself. That's probably the simplest. You can also go to my website. It's vividpathconsulting.

com. A little bit long as far as URLs go, but that's me. Um, I'm there. You'll find me there as well.

wesley-j--mathews_54_08-13-2024_100934: Awesome, Mark. Thank you so much for coming on. Learned a ton. Super fun hanging

Outro: This has been another episode of Entrepreneur Intel. Thank you for joining us. For show notes or other episodes, please visit us at entrepreneurintel. [00:45:00] com. Until next time.