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Real stories and small steps toward a more sustainable life.
We talk to people building climate-friendly startups, making better choices in daily life, or just trying something new. Each episode is a chance to learn, get inspired, and maybe try one thing yourself.
Arundhati (00:00)
So at some point I was like, you know what, I keep saying I want to work in the climate space, but at the end of the day, I'm a fashion brand and I'm telling people come and buy.
In my opinion, the most sustainable thing you can do is consume less.
Any effort to change is hard at first. mean, even if you need to show up to the gym every day, it's hard at first. But people who follow it through for some time, it becomes a habit. And it could be the simplest thing, it could be carrying your own bottle.
Pramod Rao (00:31)
Hello everyone, I'm Pramod and you're listening to Sustainably Curious. In this episode, I chat with Arundhati Kumar, a former corporate leader, founder of the sustainable brand, Beej, and someone who now helps others tell honest stories and build more thoughtful practices around sustainability.
We talk about sustainability as something personal, not perfect, about habits that stick, the discomfort of climate conversations, and how our intentions often get buried under everyday convenience. It's a thoughtful conversation about small shifts, honest choices, and finding your own way in a world that's changing fast. Let's get into it.
Pramod Rao (01:06)
Hey, Andhati, thanks so much for taking time and joining me today. Let's dive in. Would love to know when somebody meets you and asks you what you're doing. How do you answer today?
Arundhati (01:11)
done.
I think I struggled because for five years I had a very practiced response. Hi, my name is Arundhati and I'm the founder of Beej So it was said so many thousand times, I think, that it just used to roll off my tongue. And now I have to step back and say, hi, I'm an entrepreneur, I work in the climate space, I am an activist, I do a bunch of things. So I think depending on who I'm meeting, my intro kind of changes a little now.
trying to find what my next intro should be like. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (01:49)
Amazing.
Yeah, so we did an exercise. Me and my wife went to this workshop recently where we explored this question of who are you. So it's like, know, we typically tend to say about our work, but that probably doesn't just define us. Like, we are a lot more than just that. but anyway, like, you know, our audience, it would be great for them to know a bit about your journey. So.
Arundhati (02:05)
Yeah.
Pramod Rao (02:14)
Who's Anandati, what's been the journey so far,
Arundhati (02:16)
Sure, so I've been a corporate professional for 18 years and then in 2019 I just said this is enough, I want to do something else and honestly my journey I have these this is enough moments quite often and I'm like okay now this is enough pause now what next so it was something like that I was already I'd already been head of HR of a company I used to head consulting practice for something and then
You know, in the consulting practice interestingly, we used to talk a lot about leadership traits because I was into leadership consulting. So one of the things, one of the things we used to explore is ambition. So what is ambition? And there's a very nice definition that we would use. That is, what's more to you than there is already? That's ambition. And I was like, you know what, being an HR head of a small company, medium company, big company, that's...
can't be what there is to be, there has to be more. So I think that's how I started exploring and sustainability was an interest area of mine. Not so much fashion or anything, just the climate space. think what was happening, you know, back in 2019, the murmurs were much lesser, but they were still there. And I used to just perpetually worry about the fact that, know, by the time
daughter grows up, the world's going to be a hard place. So all of that, right? I was trying to think what can I do and stuff like that. And interestingly, my father was into leather. He's a leather exporter. It was also the time there were conversations around, you know, come and join the family business. I'm the only daughter. He's 80 now, was around 75 then. So I started, you know. ⁓
looking for alternatives. I like to say this, my business started on a Google search, sustainable alternatives to leather, literally. And like this whole world opened up of things I had never heard of, I didn't know of. So I spent some time researching all these materials. And I was like, why are why is no one in India doing it? Why is no one in India talking about it? And that's the time the alternate materials space was practically non existing in India like five years ago. So my
first idea was to go to my father and say, listen, I think we need to pivot if you want me to take over the business. Let's kind of transition to this. So he of course heard me very patiently and he said, you know what, leather is not going anywhere in my lifestyle. It's not even going anywhere in your lifestyle. And you know, I've spent 50 years building this business. It's a profitable business. It makes money. I'm not changing it anytime soon.
So I was like, all right. And he stays in Kolkata, I stay in Bombay. So I said fair enough, I'll start off something of my own. And that's literally how Beej started. And that's really how much thought I gave the business. And I said, all right, let's do this. And then I built Beej for over five years. We did well. were first of our kind in India. We were award-winning brand. A lot of good things happened with the brand. Also what happened with the brand is my own
perspective and worldview of the space changed because I was exposed to so much more. I learned so much more. I studied so much more. I saw so much more. I was able to connect the dots much better. So at some point I was like, you know what, I keep saying I want to work in the climate space, but at the end of the day, I'm a fashion brand and I'm telling people come and buy. And I am, you know, constantly my team is telling me, you know, you need to do discounts, need to do sale, you need to run promotions because at the end of the day, it's a B2C business.
Like every business there has set up rules. If you're in the business, you've got to play by the rules. that dissonance really started bothering me at some point. And I was like, you know what? This cannot be it. That's why in July last year, I kind of took a step back. I said, all right, I've got to see what I want to build now for the next five years. And since then, I've done a lot of consulting. I've worked on films. Climate communication is a...
big interest area of mine, so I work in that space. I am working on two new ideas which are also in the climate space but with potentially much higher impact. So that's what I do. I used to do as a job. Other than that, I talk a lot in this space, I write a lot in this space. I raise a teenager, which is a full-time job. I also manage two dogs. ⁓ I'm hugely into fitness, so.
Pramod Rao (06:51)
⁓ nice.
Arundhati (06:56)
All of that takes up a lot of my time if I am not working.
Pramod Rao (07:00)
And curious to know the name Beej any story behind that? Like how did you come up with that name? What is the seed behind it?
Arundhati (07:07)
⁓
So I wanted it to be an Indian name because the fact that Indian brands have names that sound like, no offense, but sound like Da Milano or something really used to bother me. I'm like, why do we not have a brand which is from India, rooted in India? That was number one. ⁓ I wanted it to be unisex, easy to pronounce. And Beej in this sense,
Pramod Rao (07:27)
Yeah, got it.
Yeah.
Arundhati (07:35)
stands for seed in Sanskrit and it's the origin of all life forms so human, plant, animal, everything. So for us it was also about respect and coexistence with all life forms. So that's how Beej came about.
Pramod Rao (07:36)
Yeah.
And like you mentioned somewhere along the journey and you had a great journey with Beej know, it was doing well, winning awards, like, you know, great customers and all that, but somewhere there was a shift where you felt there was some conflict internally, right? And it's always hard to let go of what you've built. So walk us through that moment because you built this business for years and then you had to
Arundhati (08:08)
Yeah.
Pramod Rao (08:13)
Yeah, you've probably felt disconnected from it. So what did that feel like and coming to that hard decision of, need to step back? It's a bold decision. So how did you go about arriving at that?
Arundhati (08:24)
I think it's a bit of my superpower. I can build and step back and build again. But having said that, I can tell you that it's never easy. Also, not just because you built it, I think you also get used to the adulation the, you know, anything. It could be press, it could be people, it could be customers. You also get used to the fact that people are constantly reaching out to you. So there is a rhythm you get used to, right? And then...
Pramod Rao (08:39)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arundhati (08:53)
When you decide to step back, and also for most founders building, your business becomes a very large part of your identity. Like I said, for me, my identity was I was the founder of Beej. So suddenly when you have to step back, you're like, okay, now who am I? Now what do I do? Now what do I say? Kind of a thing, right? So think that's a struggle. But when we decided to close,
Pramod Rao (09:05)
Yeah.
Arundhati (09:16)
I had also decided in my head that, you know, we're not going to cry about this. We are going to absolutely celebrate it because it has been five fantastic years. Not the easiest years, but really good in terms of just very wholesome years, right? So everything we did, including our communication to our community, and we had a, we have a very strong organic community on Instagram. To everybody, it was like, you know what, please don't cry about the brand shutting.
really celebrated, really go sharp, you know tell us how you enjoyed the journey with us the last five years so I can tell you the last one and a half two months were my best years at the studio best time at the studio I used to go do nothing right sales are crazy because people are shopping shopping shopping like people really came and shopped everybody is sending me texts messages love videos it was just wild
We did a massive photoshoot with the crew, with my team when we shut down. So I was very clear that we are not crying over this. And I didn't want anyone to cry, not my team, not my customers, none of it. So did it feel crazy the day I of just dismantled the studio? Yes, you do feel out of sorts. ⁓
Pramod Rao (10:24)
got it ⁓
Hmm.
Arundhati (10:41)
so bad I think. was okay. I decided to celebrate it.
Pramod Rao (10:46)
very nice outlook towards that. And one more question on that. So I think, like you said, it's a plant-based leather bags product, right? And one angle of looking at it is people are going to buy leather bags. And what you set out to do was that behavior is probably going to grow, but you'll make that with an alternative. So in a way, it was with a sustainability lens. But at the same time, you felt
Arundhati (10:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, boss.
Pramod Rao (11:12)
conflicted. So tell me a bit more about what was the conflict.
Arundhati (11:15)
In my opinion, the most sustainable thing you can do is consume less. ⁓ So, you know, really, I think buy less, buy better, use longer. Because I don't think we can sustainably consume ourselves out of the corner we've painted ourselves into. Right? The only way is if everybody cuts down consumption by half.
Pramod Rao (11:19)
Nice. ⁓
Arundhati (11:41)
is the only way we have any hope. So, was it a step in the right direction? answer is yes. If someone was buying, could they have bought a better alternative? Is there a lower carbon footprint? All of that, answer is yes. But two things, think one is honestly plant-based leather is still not a scalable business in India.
for multiple reasons. think the price points, the awareness, people's willingness to really keep, you know, planet at the center of their shopping decisions, all of it put together, right? So we were the first brand after us, multiple brands have come up and you know, I know every founder in this space. So I follow the journey of every brand in this space. It's a hard space. And I think it's going to continue to be a hard space for some time. yeah.
So that was one but also just I mean I really think if you really really want to be sustainable you can't say I'm going to go overboard buying five linen shirts or five hemp shirts because it is better than polyester. I would say don't buy one shirt. So that's not a very healthy outlook for a fashion founder to have.
Pramod Rao (12:59)
Yeah, No, makes sense. And having been through the startup journey, think a lot of times the growth sort of becomes the core function of it. And that I understand is also sometimes you have to question growth at all costs. Does that even make sense or not?
Arundhati (13:21)
Such a trade-off, I think as a founder you need to be very clear about the trade-offs you making in your head. So I could have easily told myself that, listen, I'm giving people a better alternative. But the business needs to be of a certain scale. At the end of the day, it's not a passion project, it's a business. So it needs to be of a certain scale. And I could have gone that direction. ⁓ Maybe five years earlier when I started, that was my thinking. But it just shifted over time.
Pramod Rao (13:37)
Okay.
Yeah.
Arundhati (13:48)
and then it stopped making sense.
Pramod Rao (13:52)
Got it. And I want to pick up a thread link to this. So in a recent talk, you mentioned that nobody wants climate change. And we are just trying to live by our life and trying to make choices from a sea of bad options and trying to make the best choice. So that really stuck with me. And so tell me more about why do you think it's so hard for us to
Arundhati (14:02)
Yeah.
Bad options, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pramod Rao (14:20)
make better choices or act towards making the planet better.
Arundhati (14:28)
I think it's got to do with the fact that potentially as human beings we don't like being inconvenienced because we are creatures of habit and like I said you know in that talk at the end of the day as human beings we attribute a lot to intention so it's not my intention to harm the planet but I have a job, have home, I have kids, I have things to manage
And if something is cheaper, lesser demand on my time, my space is convenient and you know, it's just something I'm habituated to, I will do it. If as an outcome it affects the planet, that's not my intention. So hence it is just collateral damage. I think that's how most of us look at it.
We also put an additional layer to it to say that, listen, mean, look at all the people out there and everything they're doing. So what additional difference does this make? I think that's also something we tell ourselves over and over again. But mostly I have found that people who are intentional take the effort to change.
Pramod Rao (15:33)
Hmm.
Arundhati (15:45)
Any effort to change is hard at first. mean, even if you need to show up to the gym every day, it's hard at first. But people who follow it through for some time, it becomes a habit. And it could be the simplest thing, it could be carrying your own bottle. I mean, in my mind, it's a no-brainer. But why do people not do it? Because you have to start and for the first 15-20 days, you have to remind yourself, every time I go out, I need to carry that bottle.
Pramod Rao (16:00)
Yes.
Arundhati (16:11)
By the 21st day it becomes a habit. Once it becomes your habit, it will become your child's habit. But you've got to be intentional about it. think that's where we... And we also tell ourselves, I mean this whole thing that we tell ourselves, we are too busy, we have too much, our lives are hard. I think that we've just talked ourselves into that space. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (16:30)
Hmm. So
I think you also mentioned that there's no ⁓ one defined starting point in the talk. I think it all comes down to intention. A lot of times, ⁓ the intention is subconscious. It doesn't surface up in the sense that, like you mentioned, the water bottle, it's actually a habit that once you become aware of it,
Arundhati (16:39)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pramod Rao (16:57)
and you start doing it, it becomes second nature. And I think everybody has good intention, but they probably don't surface this intention at all because, it's so easy to find a water bottle anywhere today. You go to a restaurant, there's a water bottle kept on the table, right? So I think one is just, you know, slowing down essentially to think of some of these
Arundhati (17:00)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Pramod Rao (17:20)
I think it's hard to pause in life today where everything is so convenient, accessible. So in a world that is only getting more convenient, what do you think will help more people become aware of these intentions and start taking small actions?
Arundhati (17:25)
So fast, yeah.
I don't know why people are not aware already. mean honestly I don't get it because I sometimes think what would it take for you to start taking action and I have a feeling it's I mean I'm taking the example of COVID it's a very bad example and but we all started acting when we started feeling like the danger is at our doorstep.
and it can happen to me, it can happen to my family, it can happen to my loved ones, I'm seeing it happen to my neighbor. I think that's when people kind of spurred into action, right? We are still thinking the flood is somewhere else, the wildfire is somewhere else, the earthquake is somewhere else, know, something is somewhere else, the AQI is bad in Delhi, Bombay is okay. We're still thinking it's not happening to us.
Pramod Rao (18:16)
Yeah.
Arundhati (18:32)
But I don't think we realize it's going to happen to us very soon. And I don't like saying this, you know, God forbid tomorrow if your child, let's say develops something because of pollution or breathing or bad food, it's then as a parent that you will start noticing that, my God, pollution is everywhere. my God, plastic is everywhere. my God, this is happening. So like I said, different starting point, that starting point could be a health related trigger. It could be
It could be a fact that maybe somewhere in the place that you live, the place has been hugely affected by climate change. So those triggers are what are going to kind of propel people to change. Now, the point is, do we really need those triggers? Do we need something to come and disrupt our lives in such horrible ways for us to start acting?
Pramod Rao (19:14)
Hmm.
Need it, yeah.
Yeah.
Arundhati (19:27)
shouldn't have to but I feel like
Pramod Rao (19:28)
correct.
Arundhati (19:32)
may be the case. It might be the case.
Pramod Rao (19:35)
Yeah. And one of the things that I feel is the more we, like you said, the more we do it, maybe let's say our child sees it and then inculcates that habit, or neighbors see it and get inspired by doing that. So I think more action only results in more action and also talking about it.
Arundhati (19:58)
talking about it yeah yeah because
in a situation like this, I mean, there's enough and more research to say that when communities talk about stuff, that's when those problems start appearing as problems to the community. So the moment you choose not to talk about it, essentially what you're queuing is, it's not important, or it's not a threat, or there's nothing we need to fix here. So you are thinking that I'm not going to talk about it because...
Pramod Rao (20:15)
Yeah.
Arundhati (20:29)
And a lot of people think about it individually, but we don't want to have those conversations because they don't make for great dinner conversations. It's a killjoy. You don't want to go and talk about climate or sustainability in a group. But the fact that many of us think about it and many of us don't talk about it, what we are essentially queuing as a group is that, listen, it's all right.
Pramod Rao (20:31)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arundhati (20:54)
And it's not a problem yet.
Pramod Rao (20:55)
Yeah, and yeah, like you mentioned, it comes across as awkward in conversations, like in a group setting sometimes. Why is that? And like any funny examples of it that...
Arundhati (21:05)
Many,
I I can give you a thousand dating examples of people who have judged me because they ask me what I do and then I say hey I work in the climate space and then they'll raise their eyebrows and be like what does that even mean and then I'll say something and then they'll do something extremely inappropriate like maybe order a bottle of water and then I would say why can't we have house water? I don't know many such examples of you know especially when I meet people and they're like you know why?
doing this even a lot. I think I gave an example of my daughter who cringes because when she's out with me and I'll make one of these comments she'll just look at me and say like why can't you just be normal? why can't you just not say anything? So I'll tell her but you don't even need to say it's okay. So yeah people judge you all the time. All the time.
Pramod Rao (21:59)
And you've worked in the last one year on climate communications, Like, you know, what have been some learnings on, you know, normalizing this or like, you know, where you've seen change happen as well.
Arundhati (22:11)
I think you need to make it simple. You also need to make it very relatable in the sense that I don't understand if you say climate change is happening, but if you help me see how it is playing out in my context, in the place I live, in the job I do, in the community I function, then people understand it much better. Because I have realized instinctively
everybody realizes something is happening. Summers are getting warmer, rains are getting, you know, harsher, weather is changing. You go to the hills, the locals will tell you that you know there's not enough snow, there's not enough this. So everybody, whether it's urban, whether it's rural, educated, uneducated people who know the term climate change or not, instinctively everybody understands that.
something is changing. So how do you help them see what is happening, why it is happening? Could you be playing a role in it directly or indirectly? And hence, what can you do? I think that is very important. Also, feel like when individuals feel like...
too small to make a change or I do not have the agency or the power to make a change, that's very anxiety inducing because then we are literally saying that hey we are stuck in a world that's going to happen to us and we can't do anything about it. So the minute people start feeling that hey change is possible and we can do something, whatever.
It could be anything, could be composting your food waste, could be just ensuring that you are not consuming any single-use plant, anything. I think people just feel like, you know, we can do something about it. And honestly, that's not easy because all around you, you see the world is like falling apart. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (24:14)
Yeah,
and I've been through that phase, I mean, stayed with that phase for like a year plus, where, you know, felt that I as an individual, what can I do to ⁓ change this, right? And or anything that I do will not have an impact. But I think the moment, you know, for me, at least it shifted saying that, okay, let me go through with that journey and then talk about it.
Arundhati (24:24)
Yeah. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (24:37)
Um, and then we heard like, you know, um, me and my wife, met someone who one month later talked about something that they implemented because they heard it from us. So we just felt like, you know, it's a small impact. mean, it's, uh, but it felt good. And I think that this inspired us to like, you know, talk more about it and small things that we do. Right. And, um, and now I think, you know, you still live with, how can we create more impact? But I think like, you know, at least start somewhere.
Arundhati (24:47)
Nice.
Yeah, yeah,
Yeah. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (25:06)
and see it grow over time, right? And it doesn't have to be like a huge impact right from day zero, but how can we make a small change and talk about it so that others can implement and see where it goes from there?
Arundhati (25:19)
Even how can you influence the conversation? I think it's a very big thing today. If your podcast is just able to get 10 more people talking about it and those 10 people can get 10 more people talking about it. That's what we need essentially.
Pramod Rao (25:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Funnily enough. the previous podcast, it was with this founder of flux gen and we shared it. And one of my ex colleagues applied to join Fluxgen. And I don't know how the interview went, but she got to know about the story and then applied there. So these are small things. I think like more people switching to the domain is also a great step. So,
Arundhati (25:48)
Yeah, nice.
Yeah, nice. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (26:00)
But yeah, like I'd love to know more about reverse the stripes.
Arundhati (26:03)
yeah, sure. So, Reversed Stripes actually started as a climate awareness initiative while Beej was still there. ⁓ So, it comes from the climate stripes and, you know, Professor Ed Hawkins and his stripes are just symbolic of climate and how it has shifted. And the idea was, can we go back from red to blue?
Pramod Rao (26:10)
Okay.
Hmm.
Arundhati (26:26)
and hence reverse the stripes. It's of course now a patented name that we have. But the whole idea was how do we start conversations within individuals, within communities, within small groups, within corporates to say, how do we, you know, when you talk of climate change, there are largely two angles to it. One is adaptation and one is mitigation. I feel we overindex on adaptation.
Pramod Rao (26:53)
you
Arundhati (26:53)
saying
now this has happened, let's adapt for it, let's adapt for it. But there isn't enough conversation around mitigation. So this is more about mitigation saying guys, what can we do at the design stage, at the action stage, at an individual stage to not even let it get there. I think that's how it started. And we started it about two and a half years, three years ago, I think. We built a whole accessory range around the reverse the stripes. We partnered with a bunch of
Pramod Rao (27:07)
Hmm.
Arundhati (27:22)
businesses who had designed products with the stripes as a theme and stuff like that. So that's how it started for me. And then when I decided to shut Beej, I just decided to keep the name from a consulting perspective. I like the name a lot. said, okay, let me just stay with this. hence my consulting firm is called Revers the Stripes. And what we do is I work with a lot of businesses who are
Pramod Rao (27:28)
Hmm.
Great.
Arundhati (27:47)
setting up in the sustainable space and it could be beauty, fashion, anything, a lifestyle business, home, decor. Just to say that how do you make sustainability, how do you integrate it into your story, how do you integrate it into your products, your supply chain, your packaging, all of it. So that's one of the things I do. I also work with larger corporates on
their storytelling. So if they have a sustainability slash climate impact element to their business, how do we bring it out? And it could be for employees, could be for investors, anybody, clients, customers, internal external stakeholders. You know, that's something I do. I am building something in the event space. So zero carbon.
Pramod Rao (28:39)
Got it.
Arundhati (28:42)
know, carbon neutral events again, end to end. So a bunch of things, right? A bunch of things that I've learned over the last five, six years. That's what we do at Reverse the Stripes.
Pramod Rao (28:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And when it comes to climate communications, like you said, you work with brands and corporates around storytelling, right? What do you think is missing today and or is challenging for brands or corporates to bring out this story in a way that really resonates with their customers?
Arundhati (29:12)
I think the first thing is that the story needs to be real. I mean, and I say this to a lot of brands that you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be everything. You do not have to go to the market saying we are 100 % sustainable. In fact I hate that term So, but whatever you do, stop small, build it with intent and be honest about it. I think
Pramod Rao (29:35)
Hmm. Yeah.
Arundhati (29:41)
There is a group of customers out there who are becoming incredibly climate conscious today. And that actually cuts across age groups, demographics, all of that. It's not a function of how much money you have. It's not a function of how old you are. But just a group of people who are increasingly concerned. they kind of align and resonate with brands who are trying to do something but are
trying to do it the right way and with complete honesty. So because we also live in a world where greenwashing is abundant. We also live in a world where it is so hard to believe claims. It is so hard to verify anything a brand says. So if you are doing something, how do you put that across in a manner that's most authentic?
something that you'll follow through. I mean you can't say I'm going to plant trees because it's World Environment Day. So whole of June when you shop from us we'll plant trees but in July we will not do anything. July we'll do a flash sale. So you know that just doesn't make sense. So how do you also have consistency in what you say? How does your story stack up? Like I think all of that is what I kind of work with.
Pramod Rao (31:07)
And any examples, I mean, without revealing the brand names and all, but like any examples where this has worked out very well and, they were maybe not doing this more of it before, but you saw like great success with it.
Arundhati (31:22)
Not really, I haven't worked with any such brands. I have worked with a bunch of startups actually who are now setting up and it honestly is easier for startups because they start with this philosophy at the core so they can build it into their systems and processes at the very beginning. I think it's harder for bigger established brands because honestly, unless sustainability is core to your business and it makes
Pramod Rao (31:39)
Yeah.
Arundhati (31:49)
commercial sense, unit economics of it add up, it is hard to do it at a continuous level. You'll start it, you know, it'll be very topical, you'll do something around it, then you'll stop it because it will stop making money sense. So for larger brands to find that balance between the kind of margins they are used to, the kind of business they are used to, and bring this in is much harder.
Pramod Rao (32:17)
Yeah, got it. Makes sense. And I think you touched briefly on the talk as well, that there's a myth around sustainability or sustainable living requires a lot of sacrifice. But you touched upon, I think, ways in which it doesn't have to be like that. Like, the water bottle example.
in your own day-to-day life, apart from the example that you gave, what else have you changed that you would like to talk about?
Arundhati (32:44)
A, we compost at home. All our food waste is now composted. And I have to say that like many, many people, I shied away from it for many, many years because I was like, I live in Mumbai, I live in a Tibetan slat, it's going to be smelly, I don't have the time, who's going to do it? Also, you know, we are a small two member family, how much waste is there going to be? Many, many reasons I gave myself for a very long time.
Although I was very aware of composting, till I don't know what happened to me one day I went and bought a composter ⁓ from Daily Dump and then when I started doing it I was like my god this is so simple and this is great and there is no smell and why wasn't I doing it earlier and I actually have a lot of plants in my house so now I'm most happy because they thrive on the compost.
Pramod Rao (33:19)
Okay.
Yeah.
Arundhati (33:40)
So we started composting even small things like which we do not code as climate actions, just ensuring you switch off your lights. Just ensuring when you're working in the kitchen or you're working earlier in the washroom, the tap is not on. It's not continuously on. Or just ensuring that your AC is regulated at a certain temperature. The fact that...
Every time you buy something you are a little conscious saying do I really need this? Please can we just buy what we absolutely need? And I am not saying live the life of a know give up on all worldly pleasures I am not saying that but I am saying be mindful I am saying you know and I say this to my daughter also you want to buy something please absolutely buy but do you really need it?
And if you want to buy something, then buy something which is of a better quality and you will use it for a longer time. You know, just ensuring that everything that's in our house at the end of life, we eat our books, our clothes, everything, we organize it, we make sure we give it away, we make sure it's clean. So I think very small stuff and maybe, like I said, maybe many people already do a lot of this. We are just not able to see the correlation to climate.
Just the fact that you don't waste food or just the fact that when you eat you prefer to eat local or seasonal vegetables. Everything is climate action at the end of the day.
Pramod Rao (35:10)
Mm.
Yeah.
It's funny that a lot of these, like when I look back at my parents' they were already doing this. yeah, my wife and I, are consciously trying to bring back some of those habits. Like we have two dogs as well, so we take them for a walk every morning. And we're trying to go to the local vegetable vendor as often as possible, rather than be always ordering last minute.
Arundhati (35:22)
Yeah, they were fabulous.
Yeah.
Pramod Rao (35:41)
⁓ That said, we do order and it's completely fine, I think, but as much as possible, we plan and then take that extra 200 meters walk to actually shop vegetables from the local vendor. I think that's great. Like, you know, just small changes like that. Like we felt we felt good, like, you making that change.
Arundhati (35:42)
Yeah.
And once a few things become consistent, then move on to the next thing. I feel like if you try and, like I say, it's not binary. It's not a zero or one equation. I think most people code it that way, that I have to do everything. Or then what's the point? Let me do nothing. For most people, it's not binary. There can be some things you will do, some things you just cannot do. For example,
Pramod Rao (36:04)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah.
Arundhati (36:29)
I'm happy to be conscious about my food but I'm just not happy to give up on my fashion for example. It's alright, start with the food. Start with something else you're okay to work on. You'll get to fashion when you'll get to fashion. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (36:37)
Yeah, it's so big. Yeah.
Yeah.
You rightly pointed out that we are all climate hypocrites, but that's OK. That is a great philosophy. A lot of times, there's a guilt around, need to completely give away or live very differently. And that probably is a blocker for a lot of people to just start making that shift. While you can
Arundhati (36:55)
That's okay.
Pramod Rao (37:09)
consciously change some of the decisions and slowly over time it can compound. I totally agree with that.
Arundhati (37:14)
Yeah.
Pramod Rao (37:14)
Yeah, I have a few fun or light questions. So ⁓ given you've been an entrepreneur in the space and also in climate communications, what has given you hope, like a moment recently or anything that you've come across that gives you hope for future? Sorry, maybe that's not a light question.
Arundhati (37:18)
Okay.
No, I think honestly in my interactions Pramod a lot of people
think a lot of people are looking for inspiration in this space to be honest. They are looking for direction. They are looking for someone who can help simplify it for them and say, listen, this is what you can do. And I get a lot of DMs on my social media, on my LinkedIn or on my Instagram, where people write to me saying, hey listen, you spoke about this and it resonated with me or I'm trying to do this or you know.
I live in a joint family and I'm now trying to convince my parents or everybody else in the house. This is how I should do it. I think there is a movement brewing to be honest. Is it a mainstream movement? Not yet. But is it brewing in the fringes? Are more and more people beginning to think about it? The answer is yes. And that's hopeful. Now, how do we bring them all together? How do we kind of...
simplify the change, how do we hasten the change, I think that's important because we're still not changing fast enough, for sure. So yes, there is hope. Is there enough hope for me to think that we are saved from doom? Maybe not yet, but yeah, for sure there's hope.
Pramod Rao (38:41)
Yeah, that's
And you did talk about, I think, if I remember correctly, you said people need to be aware and then acknowledge, and then that leads to actions. When it comes to awareness, I know I've gone through Terra.do course, you've also been part of the Terra community. Are there any sources that you would recommend people to start just being aware about?
the things that are problems in the space.
Arundhati (39:27)
think Terra, to be honest, and I've also done a course with the 1.5 Academy. Courses like Terra and OPF are very technical. They are about people who are trying to transition into these, you know, into these jobs, roles, who want to bring climate and sustainability at the center of their careers and things like that. I don't think to take action, all of us need to understand
Pramod Rao (39:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arundhati (39:55)
you know greenhouse gas accounting or carbon footprinting or life cycle analysis. We don't need to. Can we just start reading the damn newspaper? Like it's dead there day. I have the Hindustan Times in Mumbai. Every day the second page of the paper has something called the climate crackdown. And it talks about something that is happening in the space. It will talk about biodiversity laws. It will talk about the fact that
Pramod Rao (40:05)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Arundhati (40:22)
We are losing our glaciers, floods, this, that, crops, health, something, something. Can we just start reading? Can we just start connecting the dots? Can we just start looking around us as to what's happening? I think information is everywhere. I don't think the problem is that our lack of information sources. I think the problem is we just skimp on them. We don't read them enough. We don't process them because
Because you that's the thing about climate change Once you know it because it is such a collective problem It's on your conscience if you do nothing about it I mean it's like knowing that hey listen there's a crime happening but I'm not going to stop it So most people prefer not to engage with it because then I can say I don't know hey listen I'm just going by life you know I have so many things to do I'm a busy person So
Pramod Rao (41:08)
Yeah. Great.
It's not my problem
kind of mentality.
Arundhati (41:22)
It's not my problem.
I don't even know anything about it. what am I supposed to do? And that's my theory on it. Most people just skim through it because it's the most convenient thing to do. The moment you really understand the gravity of the situation, then you're very compelled to do something. And once you know it, you can't unknow it. That's also the problem with this, right? Once you know it, you just know it. Then what are you going to do? Either you're going to ignore it.
Pramod Rao (41:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ready?
Arundhati (41:50)
or you are going to do something about it. Both of which are hard.
Pramod Rao (41:54)
Yeah,
Yeah, hopefully more people do something about it as we go along. What's something you're still figuring out?
Arundhati (42:07)
I don't know what I want to do for the next five years maybe. I have a plan but yeah.
Pramod Rao (42:11)
Yeah.
How often do you change the plans? know you said, you know, you have
Arundhati (42:19)
Not often but
I do change tracks every 5-7 years. Once I have decided then yeah for the next 5-7 years I do that. I also feel that 5-7 years is a long time you know our world view. So I can tell you we would drive, my daughter and I were driving around the Mumbai sea link yesterday and she was telling me, she just made a very random comment to say that you know what I think Bombay will be underwater in 100 years. Now she's a kid.
Pramod Rao (42:29)
Thank
Arundhati (42:49)
I told her
I don't think it's going to happen in 100 years. I said, it's going to happen much sooner. I told her the... I said, you know, you cannot even imagine what this world is going to be in the next 20 years because it's changing so rapidly. It's beyond our imagination really. To think what this world is going to look like. We will obviously very quickly adapt and stuff like that, but...
But can someone really say what the world is going to look like in 20 years? I don't think so.
Pramod Rao (43:18)
Yeah, I think more and more the world is changing so fast. I'm very close to the AI space. My previous startup was in AI. And that world changes every two weeks. yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Arundhati (43:26)
Yeah.
Yeah, everything changes, right? The good and the bad both. Everything
is so rapid. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (43:37)
Yeah.
Well, then if someone's curious but not committed into the space yet, like, know, what's your recommendation on where should they start taking small actions?
Arundhati (43:49)
about the stuff that bothers you most? If you love to travel, then start looking at how it's affecting your bucket list of places. If you love to eat, obsess about the fact that your chocolate is going to go away and your coffee is going to go away. I think you have to find a place that is close to you. A lot of parents worry because they think it's hard for their kids.
You know, some, so I feel like start anywhere that resonates with you. It could be anywhere. And start seeing the connection, start reading a little, start understanding a little because this is all pervasive. you know, that's why, that's why it's termed a polycrisis. It's not about one thing. It's not just about food or health or...
know, extreme climate events or pollution. It's everything. It affects our sleep. I mean, one of the things I really, really worry about is that it's changing us as people. Like, it's literally the heat and the humidity is rewiring our brains. It's making us more angry. It's making us more irritable. It's making us less tolerant, you know.
just the fact that climate as it plays out is going to put extreme pressure on our resources. There'll be fewer and fewer resources. And we already know as human beings we don't do well when there aren't enough resources. We don't do well when there is you know, there is a scarcity mindset. We are always ready to fight and just behave badly. And we see that happening, right? We see more and more people just, I mean, if the...
we are going to stop being good people doesn't bother us. Well, I don't know what will bother. No amount of research is going to then help because there has been research for 100 years. We have not been listening.
Pramod Rao (45:56)
Correct. And being in Bangalore and just getting stuck in traffic itself changes human behavior so much. It's quite crazy. Yes. Yeah.
Arundhati (46:01)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we see it play out every day, right? The calmest
of us is just losing our minds. And do we really want that?
Pramod Rao (46:16)
And last question, like where can people find you and how can they reach out to you if they want to?
Arundhati (46:23)
Googleable but otherwise on my Instagram my Instagram handle is FoolishlyBrave they can also reach out to me on my brand handle which is StudioBeej or LinkedIn as Arundhati Kumar very easy to find yeah
Pramod Rao (46:40)
Awesome. Thanks so much, Arundhati. This was amazing. Got to learn a lot. And thanks so much for joining the podcast.
Arundhati (46:48)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I don't know how helpful that was but I hope it was slightly helpful.
Pramod Rao (46:53)
No, I enjoyed the conversation and I'm sure, I'm
sure like our listeners would enjoy as well. So thanks so much.
Arundhati (47:01)
I think I'll also say that five years ago, I wasn't this person. Five, six years ago. I was also a very blinkered, corporate person, office, home, life. Just had to do stuff. So let's not also expect these changes to be instant. I also feel people who want to get on these journeys
more and more importantly, have to be very, very, very kind to themselves. We will stop, we will stop, we will fall off the wagon, life will happen, some crisis will take over, we will not be able to do it. And it's all alright. As long as it's somewhere at the back of your mind, you will come back to it over and over again. So I think that's also something I really want to put out there, saying
Do not expect to get it right the first time and do not think that you cannot if you could not do it. Just come back to it. Maybe not come, don't come back to what you tried the last time. Try something else. There's no harm. Yeah.
Pramod Rao (48:06)
Yeah, I think keep iterating
as long as there's intention. think like, know, you'll figure a path and there'll be ups and downs obviously with the journey. yeah, like trying to apply the same philosophy with the podcast as well.
Arundhati (48:23)
Yeah, it's not so hard.
Pramod Rao (48:28)
Thanks so much, Arundhati.