A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Emily: Pretty happy that I was
here on time and surprised cuz I
was taking a really intense nap.
Jeremy: I just, I get this picture of
you like on a pillow, just going, hok you
hok, you hok, you like intense napping.
Tell the rock naps.
Ben: Put the power and power nap
Emily: yeah, if there's a way that the
rock naps and that's it, I will do it.
Emmanuel: Assuming naps while like
facing cod, just like gotta get my
protein in even when I'm sleeping.
Ben: every time he naps.
The hierarchy of sleep changes.
Jeremy: He snores.
He, you know, he curls with his lower jaw.
Emily: got like resistance bands
all over the place and then he is
just like slathered in avocado.
For the protein.
Emmanuel: I feel like we're veering
into fantasy territory, Emily.
Emily: Listen, don't.
Okay.
Jeremy: Millennials and their avocado rock
all right, you guys
ready to talk about this,
Emmanuel: let's do this.
Emily: Why not?
Jeremy: All right, let's do this thing.
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards that never agreed to.
Tonight we're talking a movie about a
movie that perhaps more than any other
movie we've talked about before, has heard
of subtext and thinks it's for cowards.
It's time to talk about
tales from the hood.
I am your host Jeremy Whitley.
And with me tonight I have a
panel of Shils and Sena Bites.
First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.
My co-host Ben Kahn.
Ben Howard tonight,
Ben: I think the exact moment I
realized what kind of movie I was in
for was when the racist cop in the
first story was literally named strum.
That was the point, like we're
just straight up naming dudes.
After Strom Thurman was the moment when
I knew Subtext had left the building, its
services would not be required tonight.
Jeremy: One of the characters
is named after Trump Thurman.
One of them is basically Straw Thurman.
Ben: Name Duke, just straight up name.
David Duke.
In what?
I'm sorry.
When did David Duke run for governor?
What year was that?
Jeremy: I don't know.
Ben: 1991.
So like four years after David
Duke actually runs for governor.
They have Duke running for Governor.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: Subtlety got told to fucking
blow itself and get fucking die.
This movie, this is a movie, we've
straight up Martin Luther King.
Jesus tells people to get venge.
Jeremy: And of course, the
Cinnamon Roll of Cino Bites.
Our co-host, Emily Martin.
Harry tonight.
Emily.
Emily: I'm doing good.
I knew what movie I was in for the
second that they showed a skeleton
with a smoldering cigarette and
sunglasses great on the title card.
Did not expect that skeleton
to appear in the film.
And he does.
And it's, it's cool.
I I'm into it.
I'm into
Jeremy: It's a rat skeleton.
Emily: Yay.
Suki is very Brad.
Jeremy: Yeah.
And we have two guests tonight, both
of whom are friends of the podcast.
First writer, filmmaker, and educator.
Jay Joseph Jr.
Jay, how are you?
Good to have you.
Jay: Thank you very much.
Having me back.
When I first knew what I was in for
first movie was um, when you set out
the list of movies you're gonna watch.
Cause I've seen this.
I forget how old I was.
I saw it as little kid.
two other times since then, this'll be
the fourth time I've seen the movie.
Jeremy: Yeah.
and our second guest, my good
friend, an English educator.
Emmanuel Lipscomb.
Emmanuel.
A long time, no c
Emmanuel: I know right.
Super pumped for this.
This movie has everything
you could hope for.
Creepy children, creepy dolls,
creepy flying, hypodermic needles.
It's just lots of good stuff.
Jeremy: Yeah, it is.
it is full.
Ben: that, that's my new favorite
stand power is syringe Essis,
Emily: What's the name of
that stand?
Ben: who's the
mutant showing up to crico, which is
like, I have mutant con, I have the
mutant power to control syringes.
Emily: Just, just syringes though.
Ben: Just syringes.
Jeremy: that feels like an
early two thousands X-Men story.
I gotta say that's an ultimate
Ben: some real jojo power is
I can only control syringes.
Emily: it's a, it's an
image comic situation.
Jeremy: it's it is a thing.
So I, I drew this Sure straw
to recap this one tonight.
It is four and a half stories, so
there's a lot to recap and, and also
at the same time, not much to recap.
It is directed by Rusty Cundiff.
It is written by Rusty
Cundiff and Darren Scott.
It stars a veritable who's who
of that guy from that things.
there's Clarence Williams the
third is as close to a main
character as this movie has.
He you may know him as link from the mod.
We've also got Joe Tory, we've
got Corbin Bernson, David Allen
Greer, apologize, Parker, Rosalyn
Cash, Tom Wright Wings Hauser.
There's somebody in this movie that
you've seen in another thing, probably
three or four of them that you're like,
oh, that's, I, I know him from something.
It's broken up into four vignettes
and a framing story, which sort of
ties into the fourth story as well.
The framing story is about three
extremely straight out of central
casting inner city thug types who are
here to rob the Sims funeral home.
When they knock on the door, they
encounter the eccentric mortician
played by Clarence Williams iii.
Emily: Oscar.
Jeremy: yeah, he's doing as much,
he's doing as much as everybody
else in this movie put together.
He is really, he's really feeling it.
Apparently this mortician found some
drugs hereafter referred to only as
the shit that the gangsters want.
But he just wants to tell some fun
stories about people dying to them.
Like this first one about Clarence,
a black rookie cop who sees a couple
of white cops beating up a black
activist and tries to speak up.
Though ultimately, I guess he
trusts these racist cops to deliver
this man, they've already beaten
nearly to death to the hospital.
Well, he goes and waits in the other car.
That doesn't
happen.
Ben: Clare.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's very clear that these
guys are okay, they're cool with murder.
But Clarence is gonna trust them
to take this guy to the hospital.
Of course they inject this man with drugs.
His name is Martin, and they roll his car
into a lake with him inside, killing him.
And I guess then Clarence spends a whole
year drinking and throwing things at
mirrors cuz there's only one scene here.
And then we're told it's a year
later as he hears the voice of
Martin, the activist, telling him
to deliver the bad cops to him.
Finally, on the anniversary of Martin's
death, Clarence, who has quit the force
at some point in the last year, calls
the bad cops to Martin's grave where
they proceed to start pissing on it.
And again, not much unsettled here.
Martin is willing to let one guy piss on
his grave, but not two, because when the
second cop decides to piss on his grave,
he grabs him by the nuts and pulls him
into the ground , while the other cops
plot to kill Clarence in the background.
Martin pops up out of the grave and
chases the cops on foot and then in
their car, and then on foot again
murdering one, and then crucifying
the third one onto a street mural.
Into a street mural.
It's very
Ben: I was very unclear on how,
what that method of death was
Emmanuel: He also like
melts first, like he
gets
turned into paint and
then put into the mural
Jeremy: yeah, he
telekinetically needles the guy to
an image of the cross on this mural.
He melts into the wall
and then is in the mural.
Emmanuel: like the
Bible,
Emily: like in
velvet
bus.
Ben: I guess he got liquified so
he could then be paint to then be
a painting of himself on the wall.
That doesn't sound right, but I
don't know what the fuck happened.
Jeremy: I think, I think Emily
was saying the same thing.
I was thinking as watching this,
which is, this is not the first time
in this uh, podcast that we have
seen somebody be killed by being
incorporated into a street mural.
Because we did also watch
Velvet Buzz saw where that same
thing happens to a character,
Emmanuel: man, that rule.
Ben: And if I had a quarter for
every time a dude got died by
being incorporated into a mural,
Jeremy: and have 50 cents.
Emily: whole
Ben: and I'm 50 cents
and I could, I could pay for a
whole hour of parking for that
depending on the
town.
Jay: I'd say, I say not.
You haven't watched
Ghostbusters two on the podcast?
Jeremy: We haven't
talked
Emily: be nice.
Not yet,
Yeah,
not yet.
We haven't even talked
about Ghostbusters one, but
Ben: It'll have to happen
eventually, though.
I mean, it's Ghostbusters, it's
where they bust the ghosts.
Emily: Yes, I,
Jay: Yeah, no.
Killing people by putting them
into murals was a very popular
thing in the eighties and nineties.
Apparently.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's a, a
transmutation of trauma.
I'm, I'm digging here.
Ben: I think it's because it's an
inherently fucked up way to kill
somebody that isn't inherently gory,
except in this movie where the dude
gets melted down into melty, gooey
beds and then fuses into the wall.
Jeremy: he gets, he gets Raiders of the
lost Ark before he fuses into the wall.
Emily: It's
a
lot.
I kinda love it.
Ben: cuz normally getting fused into
a painting is a great way to kind
of have your cake and eat it too.
This movie decides it just
wants to eat a shitload of cake.
Jeremy: yeah, it is not the cruelest
fate that anybody suffers in this
because that belongs to Clarence,
who just wants to be left alone.
But the ghost is like, nah, man,
you should have sp spoken up and
done something about it when I
was still alive and needed you.
So he gets locked in a mental
institution where two guards just
deliver unneeded exposition outside
of his cell forever, I guess.
Emily: And apparently he
dies because we we're
looking at his corpse.
Jeremy: Yeah.
The, that
Ben: he just dies from being
insane, I guess is the implication.
He just insanes himself to death.
Jeremy: that whole sequence where he
is sad in a mental institution and
two guards stand outside and talk
about how the, basically recite what
happened at the end of this thing.
But you know, that he got blamed
for it, I guess, to us at the end.
Does always a great way to end
a mo end a, you know, short film
within one of these by recapping
what just happened in the film.
Emmanuel: Is also wild because those
depths, like one guy's underground crotch
first, another dude's like decapitated
and the third guy's a painting.
Like how do you,
Ben: Well, don't forget about,
there was a heart that was
still beating in a dude's hand.
Emily: Yeah, I, yeah, there's,
well, I mean, who was doing the the
investigation of
that particular
Ben: what was that murder trial like?
Where they were like, okay.
So Clarence must have dug himself into
this other grave so he could then crotch
first, which from the bleeding, the
autopsy indicated was the wound of death.
That was the first wound was crotch
Emmanuel: do you even go to the gym
to build up that strength to like
one arm drag someone into the ground?
Jeremy: I mean, I don't know.
Once you've got somebody firmly
by the nuts, I don't think there's
much they can do resistance wise,
Emily: but the
Ben: I think it's really more of a grip.
I think it's really more
of a grip strength exercise
Jeremy: Yeah.
Either they're coming, I
mean, their nuts are coming
with or without them, so that's
really their
Jay: the, the true artistry of the,
of the nut grabbed here though.
Cause it's not only that he's been grabbed
by the nuts, but it's that he's grabbed
by the nuts and then, He managed to
maneuver his whole body, to bash his head
against the headstone a couple of times,
and then jack by the nuts.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Fucking as amazing as the, all
the cathartic violence is I really
like after straw pees on the grave,
just the other cops like reaction,
, like dead pan, all of a sudden not
wanting to be their reaction of
literally just going in the dead pan.
Way to go Strom.
That's pretty cool.
Jay: I, I
wanna say,
Jeremy: Yeah, I.
Jay: disclaimer, this isn't even
the craziest fight of the movie yet.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: So let's, let's go on to story
number two, which is about a young boy
called Walter, who is being haunted
by a monster in his house, who's
rattling his door at the beginning.
His teacher, who is Rusty Kiff, the
director himself notices, bruises
on Walter and asks what the deal is.
Walter says he's being attacked
by a monster in his home.
He's also getting his ass
beat by a bully at the school.
Walter gets an idea from a
classmate to draw things that
scare him and then overcome his
fear by destroying the pictures.
Walter is a little more literal
in this as when he crumbles up the
picture of his bully from school, he
suddenly breaks both the kids' legs and
arms as he's going down some stairs.
But to the general teacher's
surprise of like, we don't know how
he fell down the stairs, he managed
to break both arms and both legs.
It's pretty wild.
So the.
So our teacher rolls up to Walter's
house unannounced and find Walter's
mom there hot and hardly dressed.
She invites him in.
The teacher tells him, tells her
about this monster and about what
Walter's been saying, which causes
her to yell at her son and about
spreading these monster stories that
he's been telling while the teacher
is there, a car horn honks outside.
Clearly everybody tenses up and we
learned that the teacher is very bad
at social cues cuz he does not seem
to notice any of this has happened.
At which point David Allen Greer walks in
playing, I guess the boyfriend of the mom.
The relationship is
never actually discussed.
He is already cussing and yelling
here at the point that he comes
in about not coming to the door
or coming to his car or whatever.
He is clearly abusive
from second one on screen.
TJ doesn't seem to notice that either.
And doesn't realize this guy is obviously
the monster from the moment he steps in.
And then without knowing anything about
this guy or his relationship to the kid.
And why everybody seems to be terrified
of him, just starts telling him everything
about the kid and this discussion
that they've had which I mean just to
start out with is like, get you would
get you in all kinds of trouble as a
teacher, but well beyond that is just
bad.
David Allen Greer kicks the teacher out
and proceeds to absolutely start beating
the hell out of Walter and his mom.
This is not
like a soap opera abuse, open hand
slap, fall to the ground thing.
This is like he's delivering several
punching blows to this woman.
Ben: well, this movie has a lot of
horrific violence, but what we also
get a strange number of is these like
open pong like martial arts strikes,
Emmanuel: Yeah.
What
was that?
He like Tiger palmed her like,
Ben: Yes, he, he tiger Palms like
surprisingly often in this sequence,
like there's still some just like
old-fashioned slaps and punches, but like
the tiger palm is a surprising
frequent weapon in his arsenal.
I,
Emmanuel: listen, eighties and
nineties were just like that.
We'd all been watching
martial arts movies and it was
just in our minds.
Jay: I, I
don't wanna, I wanna go to bury
the lead here, but it kind of
evolves into a Full on ww e.
Cage matches.
The fight continues on.
Emily: Yeah, it's very campy,
Jay: Yeah,
Ben: I mean, I appreciate
this one just beginning and immediately
delving into a no set of just
full on child on child violence.
Jeremy: Yeah.
The teacher comes in to, I
guess, help or stop this and
he proceeds To also get
Emmanuel: nothing.
Jeremy: beat Like he, he also just
straight up gets his ass beat by this guy.
Finally
Ben: is quite the role for the
director to put himself in.
Just the like ineffectual teacher who
gets his ass and just handed to him.
Jeremy: Yeah.
By, by noted comic
actor David Allen Greer.
Like,
Emily: Right.
Jeremy: you know, I'm not saying
that you can't take David Allen
Greer seriously, but like that's
an interesting choice as well.
So, Walter finally saves them all by
finding this picture of the monster that
he is drawn and folding it sharply across
the arms and legs causing David Allen's
arms and legs to bend it unnatural angles
and for him to collapse in on himself.
And then he sort of twists the whole paper
and causes his whole body to twist up.
And then go ahead and cap this off
by having the mom step on it with
her heels and blood gush out of it.
There's a very, like, interesting
framing of all this with the, it's
a very step on me vibe from this,
which is a little bit uncomfortable.
Finally.
Ben: do we wanna start talking about the.
Jay: His performance here while he is
getting, because he comes in and he's
like this very serious, you know, type.
And he initially plays a role
with like a quiet rage, I think.
But as the fight kind of goes
on and, and it, it does get into
like this ridiculous, you know,
dragon ballsy martial arts kind of
slug
Emmanuel: At a point
he's beating all three of
Jay: Yeah.
Yeah.
And like, and, and, and, and then he
just like starts throwing out like
these, like street level insults at them.
He's like, you know, I like, like,
I'm gonna beat your little ass up.
The shit ain't over yet.
Like, so stuff like that,
that's like, just so
like
school crowded.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: I liked when he had a
tattoo that said Monster, just
in case there was any fucking ambiguity
Emily: it was about no subtext whatsoever.
Like
Emmanuel: and that's the other thing is
like, you don't, if I, you're whooping
my ass, you don't have to tell me.
It's not over yet.
Oh, I know.
I, it's still happening to me.
I.
Jeremy: he's straight up moving between
punching three different people.
Like he's just gotten a hot
tag in a, a tag team fight.
He is just knocking people
every which direction.
Jay: And see that's
the thing.
It's
like,
Ben: this,
Jay: it's, it's, it's, it's not
funny cause it's , it's, it's a
scene of, of domestic violence.
I, you know, I, I I I, part of
me feels like it's just kind of
the way it's evolved over time.
I, I, I think it just
doesn't translate well today.
Cause you know, in the nineties there's
that, that, I feel like that kind of
over the top stuff was more everywhere.
Emily: Yes.
Ben: there's also that wild,
horrific domestic violence.
It is also coming at the
hands of David Allen career
just being an unstoppable wrestling heel.
Emily: Yeah.
I, I have some things,
I have some questions.
I wanna pause it to the forum about this,
Jeremy: Let's, let's hold that
until we get to the end part.
Because we, we are, we're
finished with this story because
the teacher then is like, you
know, we know what he has to do.
He has to put this crumbled up
piece of paper on this gas stove,
which you couldn't have this story.
Now liberals you know, and.
He, he puts the crumpled
up piece of paper on there.
And David Allen grew,
ignites, mostly offscreen.
And, you know, we go back to
our gangsters who see his burnt
up corpse in this in this box.
And we go
on to story
number three.
Ben: talk about the mom now or later.
Okay.
Cuz definitely need to
talk about the mom in this
Jeremy: Yeah.
Cause we're gonna, we're gonna get to
the feminism section of this eventually.
But now it's
time for what might be the absolute
wildest story of this group.
It
certainly feels, certainly
feels like the wildest to me.
It's definitely the most cartoonish.
And this is about our white supremacist
Duke, who is running for Senate,
who bought an old plantation house
where a bunch of enslaved people were
murdered by their old ma old master.
Rather than let them go when they were
free, when they were supposed to be freed.
Sometime between then and now, a woman
who's referred to as a, a voodoo witch
or an old voodoo woman in the story made
a bunch of dolls and put the vengeful
spirits of the dead into those dolls.
That now I guess, are supposed to
live in the house and are in a, like,
there's a painting of her and all of
these dolls on the wall, which is very
plot important as we go through this.
So this guy is living in this house
regardless of, of all of this, and
it says he's looked around for the
dolls and, you know, there's, there's
no dolls to be found in this place.
So it's all, he thinks it's all
a bunch of bunkum and hooey.
So there's, there is one doll whited
out and missing from the painting.
He proceeds to.
Trip the racist would-be senator's
black campaign manager making him fall
down the stairs and snap his neck.
The doll then shows up at the funeral and
duke is only just now starting to realize
that this doll tripped his, his campaign
manager made him fall down the stairs.
Duke pitches this doll out into the
road but the doll comes back anyway.
He attacked Duke.
Duke catches him and
crucifies him on a dart board.
There's a lot of
crucifixion in this movie.
And then proceeds to shoot him
several times with a shotgun.
He then goes back in the house and
we, we noticed that several more dolls
have disappeared from the painting.
And there's a lot of, mostly just
running around, no, no actual
sightings of any of the other dolls
before he eventually ends up back
out in the hallway and sees the doll.
He thinks he's killed.
Reassembling itself.
And it chases him around.
He runs back into the room
with the painting and locks the
door, and now all of the dolls
are missing from the painting.
He tries to, to run around and shoot
some, but mostly he just collapses
against the back wall and gets
overwhelmed by this group of dolls
who proceed, it seems mostly to bite
him to death with their wooden teeth.
Ben: Yeah, they do.
Jeremy: there's, there's dozens
of these things . And then
Ben: I mean, deservedly so, because
that whole sequence where he is
running around not seeing a doll, is
him going from room to room, yelling,
increasingly creative uses of the N word.
Emily: Yeah.
I was, there were some,
some stretches there.
I mean, it's all bad, but some
of the, it's like in the craft
Jeremy: I
was gonna
say,
Emmanuel: certain point, are
you like, is this still racist
or are these just
Ben: some things he says in this
movie where I'm like, I'm not
even gonna write that in my notes.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I
was like, this is, this is like Leonardo
DiCaprio and Jeno unchained level of
of like, oh, that's uncomfortable.
Yeah.
Finally, because this movie loves
unnecessary exposition and really putting
caps on things the Voodoo woman disappears
from the painting and appears in the
room and sits there in her rocking chair
and watches her dolls, eat this man
Ben: that was fantastic.
Jeremy: as she
Emily: love that.
Ben: 10 outta 10,
Emily: love that shit so much.
I saw
that was,
Ben: Just rocking giving him
this tin guy while he's fucking
eating to death by dolls.
Hell yes.
Jeremy: I really just
think, I just feel like she should
have just said, bitch at the end there.
Like, that's, that's really all
Ben: weird exposition.
How much exposition is delivered
by Duke in this the level that
he goes in knowing about it.
But by far my favorite character
in this whole fucking movie is Eli,
the man in the strange hat who his
energy is just dialed all the way to
11 the moment he enters the frame.
Emily: That that dude is well, Jeremy
said something about the casting call.
That dude seemed like he was someone
that they found in front of a, a
Emmanuel: He
was like a time traveler, like,
and like you don't talk or look
like anyone else here, but like
you're showing up, like he's
gonna get what's going to him.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Was
Jeremy: Yeah, they do say that this, this
Ben: the souls, the dollhouse, the,
Jeremy: the south.
but this man just seems like a, just
seems like an angry prospector telling him
about this haunted house full of dolls.
It's, it's wild.
He pops up two different places
in this in that one short film.
And
now,
Ben: he's fucking incredible both times.
Jeremy: yeah, he, he is, he,
he seems like he's probably
somebody's uncle that they cast
in this movie.
He doesn't even really get, I
don't think you even really get
like a full on shot of his face.
There's a lot of like the back or side
of him as he is yelling at people.
And this leads us to our fourth of
these stories, which does intersect
with the f like which does interact
with the frame story at the end.
And this short film could just be
called, what about black on black crime?
Emmanuel: Or a clockwork black.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: I, I, I'm, I have like the exact
same thought when I was watching it.
It's like,
you know, it's just like, well
we had to get to that eventually
Jeremy: I
don't know
if this is run Rusty's idea or this
just sounds like it might have been
a white producer's note that they're
just like, what about you make one
about how it's wrong, how black people
do bad things to each other too.
It's like,
Ben: When he comes out and they're like
tying him down, especially on the crotch.
I have my notes.
Are we watching a sex crime happening?
Emily: Yes.
Also that is like directly
from a nine inch Nails video.
Like that shit is like
direct, like there's
Emmanuel: even.
Emily: lot of like nine inch
nails e shit going on there.
I'm here for it.
And like the this, it's also like
Hellraiser too, like they're in the
fucking asylum from Hellraiser too.
There's a lot of fetishy
shit about that, like
Emmanuel: But also like just
wardrobe being like, I saw his,
he's got like these, like black
dynamite boxy brown sideburns, but
also with this stencil K above it.
I'm just like, what is happening?
What
Ben: gays shaved into his hair.
Holy
Emmanuel: I don't know how to explain to
my barber to reproduce that haircut Like,
Jeremy: Could you cut my hair very short
and then paint sideburns onto my face?
Because that is literally
what's going on there.
I mean, okay, so this is
like, , we go back to the mortuary
and they see another body.
And the three gangsters immediately
recognize this dead body as a guy that
they say they've just seen around town.
But they seem very spooked
to see his body here.
The mortician tells a story about
this guy and how he shot a bunch
of other people and then gotten a
shootout with a group of three shadowed
characters in this who you know,
shoot him and then are cornering him.
But then are, he's ultimately saved at
the last minute by a police intervention
which even,
even he,
Emily: most cops ever.
Jeremy: even he hangs a, a lampshade
on as it's happening in the movie.
So this guy whose name is crazy, Kay
spends his first years in prison, I guess,
between scenes only for a, a doctor with.
White dreads who is played by Rosalyn
Cash to offer to get him out Scott free
if he participates successfully in a
behavioral modification experiment.
Naturally he agrees.
Of course, we think it's gonna
be a clockwork orange thing.
It is sort of a clockwork orange thing.
But they start with him getting
locked in a, a cage next to a very
vocal, scary white supremacist.
Who has all the white supremacy tattoos?
, he's, he's the Pokemon collector
of white supremacy tattoos.
He's gotta get
'em all.
Emily: ever say that.
Ben: Gotta hate him all Nazi.
Emily: No.
Jay: He feels like he walked straight out
of American history X to be in this movie.
Emily: Yeah, yeah.
He was a very American history
ex,
Jeremy: he's taken several turns
through American history acts just to
get all of these tattoos, you know,
he's been in the green room, you know?
Ben: He went for like the Nazi tattoo
punch card where it's like nine,
eight symbols and your 10th is free.
Jeremy: yeah.
So they, they tie K to a platform.
And then specifically, crank, I guess,
I don't know, I don't know what you
would call it, a wedge, a a crank
onto his nuts very specifically.
Emily: it's like a sea clamp.
It's like the bottom end of a sea clamp
Ben: It's
Jeremy: they, see
clamp his
Emmanuel: and
also I'm not a doctor, but.
The stickers usually go on your
chest, not on your nipples, like,
Emily: Right on his nipples.
Ben: is the most, well, I gotta
say, when he first comes in, my
first thought was like, okay, yes.
I would also like to be tied
up and taken to the, like the
leather short skirt laboratory.
Emily: I know the, all of the nurses in
there crazy, like sci-fi, leather outfits.
The orderly, The mail orderlies are just
like you know, wearing orderly outfits.
But like, I wanted to see
the orderlies in outfits too.
Like if the nurses are in, like, come on,
Ben: there's some like really good like
cheesy, aggressively horny like bee movie
sci-fi energy going on with the last one.
Jeremy: yeah, so they basically do a
racialized version of the Clockwork
Orange thing here, where they intercut
pictures of his crimes and his victims.
with the crimes of the KKK and
Nazis and various lynchings
by other white supremacists.
And they really wanna drive home the
point that this guy has also killed a lot
of black people, like those groups have.
And now it's time for him to go into
sensory deprivation, which is usually done
in a tank, but for some reason they put
him in a chair and lower it into some sort
of drained pool in a warehouse under this
place.
I
Ben: They don't know what
sensory deprivation tanks are.
Emmanuel: And the ropes drop down.
Like they have no plans to bring them out.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Also, man, this whole sequence
where it's just like endless fucking
strobe blade right at your face, like.
I found it like physically hard to watch,
Emily: Yeah.
we should put that in
Jeremy: Yeah.
It's a
Ben: like my eyes, just like, I
just kept needing to like look
away, like from the screen.
It was legitimately giving me a headache
Jay: no, I had to look away at the, but
it, it's funny because there's actually
the one story I didn't remember going
into this movie at fourth time, and I
think that might be a major reason why
I just couldn't look directly at it.
So
Jeremy: Your brain was erased
by disturbing,
Ben: and it,
it's not like a short, overwhelming like
sequence, like it goes on for minutes.
Jeremy: and it
makes it very difficult to tell what's
going on in this sequence because you're
just having a hard time looking at it.
Emily: It's like it's doing
to you what it's doing to him.
Jay: Ooh, yeah,
Jeremy: he sees
each of
his victims, throughout this.
They start out with like rival gang
members, guys that, you know, conceivably.
We're also trying to kill him.
And then it moves to guys that he's
killed in, you know, various drive-bys
and stuff who maybe weren't a direct
threat to him, but we're, you know, he
thinks still justified to eventually
moving to random children who were caught
in the crossfire and his conclusion
from seeing all of these things.
And you would think, you know,
maybe having a scrooge moment
where he redeemed himself.
But no, his conclusion is, fuck them kids.
He ain't sorry for anything.
He is did he is not apologizing
and he is like, what about all
the shit that happened to me?
I ain't sorry.
So the doctor lady says she's sorry to
hear that she really wanted to try and
save him, but at this point it's over.
He closes his eyes and he opens him again
and he is back in the street where he was
at the beginning of the story with three
shadowy characters standing over him.
and they shoot and kill him.
There's no, no police involved this time.
There may never have been police involved.
Emily: Whoa.
Ben: They, they fucking straight
up did a Jacob's ladder on us.
Emily: Yeah, they've
some Jacob's letter shit
spoilers.
Ben: laddered the hell out of.
Jeremy: Yeah.
he he gets blown away.
I'm a little unsure if Rosalyn cash is
supposed to be God in this or, or what.
But that really seems like the kind
of the direction they were going
with it is, you know, they, he gets
a, he gets a chance to finally like,
say, ah, what I did was wrong and
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do better and
refuses to so he goes
ahead and gets killed.
But what's that?
These three formerly shadowy
figures are actually the three
guys from our frame tale.
They're onto the mortician.
He told them this story
to fuck with them there.
Sure.
And now they want this shit immediately,
or they're going to kill him or
possibly end, they're going to kill him.
and he says, sure, it's
down here in the basement.
It's in these caskets.
Where else would it be?
And takes them to the caskets and,
oh no, they open the caskets and
they're actually full of bodies,
but they're the bodies of them dead.
They're these gangsters that are dead
and the mortician,
Ben: Zone.
Jeremy: the mortician's eyes start
glowing and their guns turn red
hot and they fall on the ground.
And he's not actually a mortician.
He's the devil.
And this is
a hell.
And he says this, but that's
not enough for him to say this.
That reveals too subtle.
So before their eyes, he morphs
into the giant horny devil and the
funeral home falls away around him.
And there's giant pits of fire.
Rah.
It's hell.
The end obviously.
Emmanuel: but then they
all start like Harlem shaking in the fire.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Clarence Williams with that reveal.
Fucking brings it.
Emily: he sure does.
I
Jay: it's one of my favorite.
Ben: Oh, it's great.
Emmanuel: So Jay was talking
about how like he's seen this
like four times or what have you.
I've never seen this to my knowledge.
I remember this reveal, I remember this
scene exactly like as soon as it started.
I was like, I've seen this.
I dunno how that happened.
If it's like a, I wandered
into the room and my parents
were watching it kind of thing.
But I distinctly remember this reveal
Jay: It's, it's probably like one, the,
the most shared scene from this movie,
You know,
Ben: not be
Emmanuel: I just, again, no subtext.
This is hell,
Jeremy: I mean, and
very clearly, Like
this is the, the character that Tony Todd
was like had in mind when he is the final
destination version of this character,
who's not the devil, but has some
creepy thought knowledge and abilities.
And is,
is doing basically the same act
The wildest part is that they use the
split between this actor's teeth to
like have a early nineties CGI light
Ben: Yes.
Jeremy: out.
Ben: Oh my God.
That fucking tongue.
That was like fucking
Tuty anime drawn on in.
I don't
Emily: I,
Jeremy: it's hell.
Razor level special effects
Emily: was like
Ben: But speaking to Tony Todd, Roco
Revelation feels almost like a short
story pitch deck for the candy for
like the most recent Candy Man film.
Emily: a little bit.
Jay: True.
Yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: If candy Man was a
vengeful, Martin Luther King Jr.
Yes.
Ben: Yes.
Which, where's that movie?
Emily: I mean, it's a little sad.
Ben: I feel like
at this point, you know what, I
feel like that'd be a hell of a
fucking thing to have to bring to
Coretta Scott and be like, Hey,
do we got the green
light on for, for production on
this?
Or what?
Jeremy: Martin is?
Jay: Sure.
I was telling before the film, but there
are actually two sequels from the hood.
Emily: Yes.
Emmanuel: That's a wild sentence.
Jay: two sequels.
The second one's a bit of a trip as well.
And they do the same thing
where like Emmett Till comes
back as a vengeful spirit.
Emmanuel: I'm into this,
Jay: and only this, cause, you know,
in cup Revelation, they give them
some name like Morehouse or something
seems generally representative of.
Emmanuel: right?
Martin Morehouse.
Emily: Yes.
Jay: but in the
Emmanuel: Martin,
Jay: just
Emmanuel: Morehouse, I think what it was,
Emily: Oh my God.
Yeah.
Jay: In the second movie, it's
just straight up Emmett Till.
It's like,
Ben: Amazing.
I love that this, I love that
this franchise somehow finds a
way to get less subtle as it goes.
Emily: I, I appreciate this movie being
like a TV Tales from the Crypt that
is, you know, just so straightforward.
Like, I, I, you know, we talk about
how this movie has no subtlety,
and I can appreciate that.
I mean, the, the, the moral quandaries
of each, that's are sort of the crux
of each episode, I guess are, you know,
Jeremy: they're not that deep.
Ben: It's, you know, it's domestic abuse.
It's, you know, police brutality.
It's
Jeremy: general racism.
Ben: explicitly a racist yelling.
You won't get reparations.
Emmanuel: Right.
Jay: corrupt politicians in general,
especially you know, the post Reagan era.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: The.
Ben: You know, it's very in your
face as to what real world evil
each one is supposed to be about.
Jeremy: So I do wanna ask what
everybody's favorite one of
these is, or even just like
a
Ben: definitely.
K come UPNs.
Emmanuel: Yeah.
Ben: A hundred percent.
I mean, it's the Jews get
a shoutout in that one.
Come on.
How can it not be my favorite?
They're like, black and
Jewish groups hate this guy.
I am like, Hey, there we are.
Emily: I, I think that
one's also my favorite.
I do like the idea of the kid,
like the idea of the kid being
able to crumple up people.
As drawings.
Like I like that idea.
Like, that's the thing that I like
about the movie that I appreciate
about it is it's like this Twilight
Zone situation where they're like,
what if, and it's a sentence and then
they make a, a vignette about it.
And, you know, there's the Twilight Zone
existed for however long just doing that.
And I feel like, you know, there
were other things we could explore
from like different voices and
I think this movie does that.
But the, the, I, I got a little
confused with the bit about Walter,
because I thought it was Walter
initially that he was talking about
in the, in the coffin, but I think
it was actually the, the stepdad
Jeremy: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
That's the boyfriend.
Emmanuel: is all burnt up.
Ben: I figured it wasn't, it
couldn't have been Walter.
Cause I'm like, that feels too dark to
just be like a child's corpse in.
Emmanuel: So any day, one
day he accidentally crumbled
himself and this is where we are.
Jeremy: yeah.
they don't show who it is at first,
but all of the guys react as if
they've seen something real fucked up.
And then, you know, at the end we
see sort of, the the boyfriend's
charred bones sticking out
of the
Ben: Also, I mean, I know while
he is a fucking ridiculous racist
monster, Corbin Bernson is kind
of ridiculously fun to follow.
Emmanuel: Yeah.
Emily: really
Ben: Like he, he puts in a pretty
like really enjoyable performance.
Emily: And I mean, he's, this, this
is all comics, cartoons, writing,
like, it's all very, like, I think,
you know, it's four young people.
Because all, you know how
straightforward these stories are.
Ben: Were dead on with
the crip keeper reference.
Like in the beginning when they go up to
and the funeral home and the door opens.
I kind of flat out just expected
the Crip keeper to like show
up like in the funeral home.
Emily: I think the funeral director is
so much like, I love the funeral funeral
director as a character.
So much like putting
his lips, cigar in his.
It's so good.
Emmanuel: When he's not as
self-aware as the crib keep is.
Right.
We don't get all of those puns and
like looking at the camera, he's
just like, I'm weird and creepy
and
I'm.
Jeremy: He's the devil.
He doesn't have to overdo it.
You
know,
Emily: yeah.
He does.
He's got some subtlety
in that regard, I guess.
Ben: I think my favorite tiny detail in
one of these is in the one with Walter
and it's in the beginning when the other
kids are just like beating the crap
out of him and there's like one fucking
white girl, like super blonde, white
girl who somehow got into this school and
she's in the background and she's just
snarling out for blood, rooting
for this fight going on.
Jay: Yeah.
She's like the first one to
notice it and all that too.
She
Ben: Yes,
Jay: she
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: there's just one little
blonde girl in this fucking school
and she is like here for blood.
Jeremy: he
grew up to work at a waffle house.
Ben: Ugh.
Emily: Bless the, the the doll episode
I thought was the most compelling.
And it also introduced them more
like the most complex dynamic of
the film for me, which was the
campaign manager and the politician
because like the, the campaign manager
doing his whole like, example speech and
him being like, God, I'm around you too
much, and like, all this kind of stuff.
Like I really wanted to know
more about that character
before he fell down
the stairs.
Emmanuel: Right.
They have the
most
character
Ben: the campaign manager
specifically Roger Guinevere Smiths, like
UA DVI that he brings to, it really feels
like him and his character is in like
the act one of a romcom where he is like
successful but douchey and now he has to
learn how to be a better person through.
Emmanuel: Too bad
that doll snapped his neck.
Ben: And it's gonna like
end with him quitting the
racist candidate.
he just falls down the stairs and
dies.
Jay: well, here's the thing.
I think actually, because when
I was watching that story, I was
thinking initially that's where the
story was gonna go, because I had
distinctly remember that, but I have
recalled afterwards that does end up
being a thing in the second movie.
Whereas as, as, as the emett, so,
sorry, not the same actors, but it
falls like the same course of where you
have this, you know, black politician
willing to, you know, throw a bunch
of black people under the bus to make
sure this white guy gets elected.
And And it follows really from
that person's perspective.
So,
Ben: It
feels like there's a natural kind of
civil rights movement, Scrooge, like
Ebenezer Scrooge story to be told.
You'll be visited by the ghost
of Martin Luther King Jr.
Days past president and future.
Emily: yeah, like,
Jay: that's quite literally
what he's visited like by the
spirits of all these past.
And the judging him, like, you know, they
don't quite set it up as, oh, you'll be
visited by like the ghost of the civil
rights movement, but it's the same.
Jeremy: You boy, what day is it?
Why It's Martin Luther King Day.
Sir.
It's no time
Emily: That's the soul, everyone.
Jeremy: No,
Ben: saw a play,
Jeremy: shall overcome.
Emily: There we go.
Ben: saw a version of Christmas Carol
this year at a local theater in Atlanta
that said it in 2000 so they could
have it deal with the AIDS crisis.
And they had Ebenezer Scrooge called Bend
Scrooge, and that really threw me off.
yeah.
Choices were fucking made.
Jeremy: yikes.
Emily: I am curious.
Yeah.
But yeah, like I don't think this
movie as, as much as that situation
was, you know, had potential.
I don't think this movie
was the place to explore it.
Jeremy: I, gotta say I , I think the
doll one is by far the dumbest of them,
but Corbin Bern's, like cartoonish
racist character, yelling as he's
getting into the car going fuck.
Can't we all just get along?
Is like,
Ben: You didn't, you didn't
ask, which was the best you
asked, which was our favorite?
Jeremy: like I.
I,
feel like that one is
Ben: You know, how often dumbest
and favorite are the exact
same fucking thing for me?
You know what I'm
about?
Jeremy: he, he really
leans into it.
And I mean, that's still, that might
still be my favorite because the like,
Well, ultimately I think probably
my favorite is Domestic Abuse.
What is terrible as that sounds.
But you know, it does have an element
of the, you know, the supernatural
to it that's not quite as like, in
your face as the cops that you know,
like
Ben: that's got some, like
Jeremy: there's so many
Ben: I was gonna say like
interesting magic realism except for
the fact that fucking, like again,
Walter's just got a straight up stand
power with his, like I can fold,
like I can make voodoo drawings.
Emily: That's, I mean, the,
the drawings thing is read.
I,
I think, I think we should
talk about how his teacher is
like, now you do the murder.
Emmanuel: I mean, he knows he's
gonna have this kid in class Monday.
He can't fuck with him like he is,
like, I gotta stay on the good side.
Like
just,
Emily: but I feel like he should,
like, I don't know, like participate.
He can't, you know, I feel
like he's, it's a kind of a
a
Ben: okay.
If we're talking about domestic abuse,
I need, I need to talk about the mom.
This fucking horniest fuck mom who is
just immediately hitting on the t-shirt.
There is one thing where she says
like, oh, when she's trying to
explain away his bruises and entries
and she says, the boy's clumsy.
He's always falling
off things not like me.
Is that supposed to imply like
his dick, she's not gonna fall off
his dick.
Is is, is that is that what, is that
what the ipl, is that what she's trying
to insinuate to him in this scene?
Emily: I mean, she could also be just
saying that she's limber and she's
Emmanuel: This is also after she
answers the door wet from the shower
and like a robe that doesn't fit.
Like what?
What was that about?
Like
Emily: I mean,
Emmanuel: Like the UPS
guy
Emily: I think she's looking for a way
out of that relationship is what I think.
Jay: Yeah.
Emmanuel: obviously didn't work.
He has a glass jaw like.
Ben: No.
Emily: Well, I mean,
Ben: Yeah, if it turns out that
kid doesn't have psychic powers,
that whole family is dying tonight.
Very different
scene at the funeral of home and hell
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I'm
conflicted here because,
because Paula j Parker is
very attractive in this story.
And that's great.
But also there's, there is
nothing
going on in that character.
Like she is the first woman who
appears in this movie because
there's none in the police story.
There's none in the frame tale.
And so, like, the first woman who
appears in this movie is a mom who
answers the door wet and half dressed.
It was introduced by a
long pan up her legs.
And I'm like, boy, is this movie feminist?
Like, I don't think so.
Ben: Let's see.
We have we have the newscaster in KKK
comeuppance, which it really bothers me
that the title of that is kkk and then
the full word comeuppance instead of the
last K
being like AOR too.
Like that
really fucking bothers me, but whatever,
we're gonna have to power through it.
Emmanuel: it'd be KK come upends.
Ben: I think our best is Dr.
Cushing, Rosalyn Cash, who I
believe is actually supposed to be
a metaphor for a nubis where she
is weighing crazy Kay's heart to
determine his place in the afterlife.
Emily: I mean, American gods, this ain't
although someone on that staff is reading
Vertigo comics, let me tell you what,
Ben: I, I really like how
Rick Dean is credited on the
castless as just racist inmate
Jeremy: Yeah.
With the exception of the reporter all
of the women who appear in this movie
are either like victims or manipulators
because like whatever it is that Rosalyn
Cash is supposed to be at the end of
the day, like, , she is a, you know,
a doctor who is manipulating him into
going through this program
Ben: Again, I will maintain that she is,
Dom Mommy a new.
A sentence that I'm pretty sure
nobody has ever said until now,
Emily: I think I've seen, I
think I've seen it before.
Emmanuel: Oh yeah.
Where.
Jeremy: I'm
pretty sure that appears in
a mobile game of some sort.
Emily: Yeah.
Or, or you know, just
on
Ben: Yeah, there's gotta be some Haiti
spinoff fan art with Dom, mommy and Nubis.
Jeremy: But yeah, she's, you
know, I, I think she might
supposed to be God in this, in, in
some form.
You know, she wears nothing but white.
She has, you know, white dreads and she
is literally giving him a chance to avoid.
It would seem going to
hell at the end here.
Emily: She does the cane enable thing and
Jeremy: yeah.
Oh, oh.
Can we
talk about that line?
Payne was the first murderer.
He killed his brother.
How many of your brothers have you killed?
I was like, stop.
stop.
Get that line away from me.
Take it back.
I don't want it.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: am worried to do the degree of how
much of her dialogue could work in a
Lori Lightfoot campaign speech All right.
My Chicago politics jokes not going over.
Well,
I'll, I'll eat that one.
Emmanuel: I just, her final words,
her final words to crazy kay.
About how like you can make a different
decision, felt like, what is it?
All dogs go to heaven like that.
You can never come back.
Emily: Yeah, .That's right.
That's also funny because at the
very beginning of the movie, they
basically f like Charlie b Barker, that
the, the activist on the end
of like a stuff, spoilers.
That's how they killed Charlie b.
Barker.
Emmanuel: Impressive.
You just have that name on the ready Look,
Emily: my friend.
My friend straight up was like,
I was watching it with my friend
and he was like, oh, did that, are
they gonna Charlie B bark or him?
And I was like, I know exactly what
Jeremy: Well, I will say that this is
also the only part of this movie that
Alicia saw with me, and she referred to
Rosalyn Cash as that woman who always
plays basically whack ass Tony Morrison.
And I was like, I can't, I can't argue
with that assessment of this character.
She's
Ben: I
can't
Jeremy: Morrison.
Ben: that.
Emily: That's a brilliant,
Jeremy: She was like, oh she was
the dean in a different world.
There's the episode of a Different
World where they have to go do a
sit-in, in her office, and she's,
she's the dean who's being set in on.
Emily: man
Jay: You know, I, I, I'm
actually having a, a hard time.
Picking up David's story.
I, I, I think probably boys do get
bruised is, I guess what I like about
that one is, is that it's the only
one that really becomes close to
showing any remote kind of love or
whatsoever in the film of black, you
know, particularly like black love.
But just every story in this is like, so
angry and hateful, which is understandable
as, you know, it's like made in 1995.
There's a lot of anger going around.
But I, I feel like a big thing
that was missed was like any
kind of community love in there.
And boys to get bruised is the, is the
one that gives us kind of little snitching
of that with, you know, teaching.
So invested in Walter's life and then,
you know, I, I guess his new family,
he gets afterwards being in, invested
in protecting one another for, for, for
whatever problematic ways we got there.
You know, I, I'm trying to figure out
what part of me likes this movie so much.
I think there's a, I think, I
think there, it's got multiple
things kinda going on for me.
And I think the nineties, like, like
whenever you talk about like the
Blacksploitation era film, everyone
talks about like the sixties and
seventies and you know, if you talk
to a lot of people who are into
Blacksploitation and, and who actually
made the films, they're like, yeah.
It's like in empowering.
We were making our own thing.
And, and Hollywood actually starts to
confuse from us and all that's true.
And I personally love
Black Expectation film,
But I think nineties.
Had a little bit of a resurgence of that,
you know, like the spike Lee, in fact,
this was made you 40 acres of the Mule
was one of the producers on this one.
You know,
and, and, and in the nineties
we had a lot of black folk.
Again, going out there and kind
of like doing their own thing and
doing their own takes up things.
And just for longest time, it doesn't
seem, it, it seems like, you know,
it seems so weird today, but for
the longest time, tales Hood was
one of the very few black car movies
we had gotten made by black people.
Emily: Yeah.
And that's one of the things I
think is, is valuable about like,
just having like the, you know,
why it's okay that it's like really
straightforward and lacks nuance.
You know, I don't need it to
to be anything more than just like,
you know, the the Twilight Zone written
with Black Voices.
Ben: this movie in a way is like,
is campy and cheesy and it, it's joy
and it's very sincere and joyous in
that like there, I'm sure like there is.
An infectious joy in this movie.
Like, yes, it's horror,
but it's like fun horror.
Like there's wild performances
and it's so unsettle yet so clear
and everything's just effective.
And I don't know, it just seems like
everyone's just enjoying themselves
and like the effects are fun and,
and then everything is just, there's
a, like, there's just a level
of inventiveness and creativity.
I mean, you know, zombies ripping
dudes into, to Graves Dick first
Ra, like KKK leaders getting like
eaten into death like by dolls.
Like dudes getting like folded
into like human origami.
Like there's just a level of
creativity and fun on display that
I think you just can't of hope it
gets swept away in with this movie.
Emily: Absolutely.
Emmanuel: to watch all that happen with
Black voices and Black faces, right?
Like it's a
product of its era.
But I sort of love that like, I mean,
this is again, my familiarity with
David Alan Greer is in Living Color,
which is a contemporary of this movie.
And so to go from this to that is wild.
But to see that he had
that rage is fantastic.
Right?
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah,
and I
mean it's, it's got.
Whatever else it, it does or doesn't have.
It's got some great soundtrack on it.
I mean, we've got, you know, the
Wutang clan on here, O D B is on here.
Ben: Fucking, yeah.
Oh, some
great fucking tracks on this movie.
Emily: I have a question for all of y'all.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna zero in a bit again
on Walter and his story and the depiction
of domestic violence because now I'm, and
I'm gonna present my personal opinion,
which was that the, the violence was so
cartoony that it felt less upsetting for
me that it, that's what it was about.
Now I can totally understand that.
Going, going the other way and
being like, you know, it's people
being, you know, not okay with that.
I'm just, I wonder how the forum feels
about the depiction of like, that kind
of tiger paw punching, you know, and
very pantomime, like, it was very, very
star Trek violence where there was a
lot of, you could see the gap between
the, the the attacker and the victim.
Ben: There's definitely one.
I actually thought that this movie
was, you know, when it's so many like
fucking Tiger Palms, it definitely
takes you out of it a little bit.
And there was a level of just
like, yeah, this very Star Trek
almost stage act fighting about it.
But at the same time, I think there was
really something stark and uncompromising
about the violence that they showed.
Like, you know, they were, you know,
the movie Reveled in its, you know,
over the top creative horror violence.
But I thought there was something very
kind of stark and honest about the way
it it depicted violence in, you know,
there's domestic violence in the Walter
story and the police brutality violence
in the Clarence story I thought were
both depicted with you know, pretty
unspent, you know, As much as they were
able, you know, like reali, you know,
a degree of realism that I did think
made it you know, effectively upsetting
Emily: Yeah.
Emmanuel: I thought too, just
this is one of the few places
I think the movie is making an
intentional choice not to be nuanced.
They don't want the subtlety.
I know a lot of times it felt like
this sort of got away from them when
they were just being sort of bombastic.
But I grew up getting spanked, right.
And
like it's un, it was understood
to be spanked for the belt.
Like that was sort of how it worked.
And I think part of the Tiger palms
and like the closed fist punching
is the, no, this is actually
like, this is clearly abuse.
There is no, well, you know what
this like, it's intended to be very
clear that he's a bad guy and this
is unacceptable and you know, there's
no wiggle room there so to speak.
Jay: So I, I, I don't wanna lean
too much on the, Oh, this is, you
know, made in the nineties and it's
definitely a product of the time.
But I'm gonna say two things here.
I think first off, that was just kind of
a popular thing to do back then, like,
in that, in that period of time,
like any movie you watch, just
gonna be like martial arts , they
kinda tapped in there, you know,
, whether it fit or the action mat.
And I, I, but I think, you know, I think
that once again, this, this is, I mean,
not, not that this is like the first
ever attempt at realistically trying
to portray domestic violence, but, you
know, we had, we had a, we had a, we had
a couple of different movies like that
maybe really starting truly from the
sixties and seventies and going onwards.
But people mostly stayed
away from that kind of stuff.
And I
would say even.
before that time period, we were exiting
a time period where domestic violence
is just straight up played for laughs.
You know, if a guy smacks a
woman, oh, it's hilarious.
You know, she had that coming,
you know, oh, you shut her up.
That's real masculinity there.
Oh, how, how, how funny.
And we had transitioned out
of that stuff, and I think
Ben: Not in timing.
Don't forget, this is still the
era where Homer Simpson choking.
Bart is getting laughs every.
Jay: right.
Well, look, I, I, I, I think,
well here's, here's the thing.
I I, I think that if you look
at the lead up to it, right,
the lead up to, to the fight,
I think that was a sincere attempt
to show what domestic violence feels
like that a lot of movies weren't
attempting to do at the time, in
terms of like, the whole metaphor of
him being a monster and all of that.
And, and like the door rattling at night
and him trying to hide under the blankets.
It worked.
The visual sim symbolism kind of worked,
but in terms of like, I, I think what
being in that position felt like is kind
of what really delivered all of that.
And yeah, that you, you get to the, you
get to the fight and it's certainly over
the top, but I, I think it's not for lack
of, of, of trying as I'll put it that way.
Emily: Yeah.
That, that's, that brings up some
important points about it where
there's a lot of domestic violence
is very oblique when represented
in, in movies a lot of the time.
And especially like for young people,
you know, it's either very oblique
where it's like, you know, this
is, this is happening over here.
We're hearing a suggestion of this.
We don't see, you know,
tiger palm to the face.
You know, we see, we hear, we hear
it, and we're sort of, adjacent to it.
. And it's very rare that a lot of
movies will show it full on like that.
Especially in something like I mean
horror, horror is a context where I feel
like it's important to be straightforward.
Um, And if they had done anything like
that, I feel like that would've been a
a cop out where if they had been oblique
about the domestic violence and only
shown him as a monster or whatever,
and, you know, while it is a little
bit more, you know, the kind of nice
literary fodder for, you know, your high
school essay, if it was just a monster.
And if we don't see any of the, the
abuse happening, it's just implied.
I feel like it is more powerful to show
that this is literally what's going on.
You know, we don't ha we don't have to be.
discreet about it because
it's not a discreet situation.
And I mean, nothing ab, nothing
about this movie is discreet.
And to its credit, I think because that's
the kind of mo, I mean, it's a comic book.
It's, you know, this is, this is the
kind of, these, these are the ways that
you know, as a teen I learned about
a lot of stuff is through comic books
and through, you know, this kind of
like a lot of the, the the fiction that
was referential to real world horrors
was very straightforward like this.
Jay: Yeah
Emily: so yeah.
That's, yeah, that's pretty valuable
Jay: I, I think that's a great point.
I, yeah, that's a great take.
Yeah, no, it, no, it really is.
You know, and, and I, I think you're
absolutely right in that it's, it's
not just like domestic violence.
There's like a, a, a ton of
different serious issues I think
filmmakers wanna talk about.
you can't figure out how to do it
in like, in a way that they feel is
like respectful or doesn't justice.
So they just kind of like dance around it.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: so yeah, I think that's
a, that's a great point.
Yeah.
Emily: Thank you.
Ben: I mean, I do appreciate this movie
having the energy of, again, almost a
WWE fight where it's like, yes, it's
domestic violence, but yes, it's also
got like hit him with the chair energy.
Emily: there is a good versus evil,
very clear, good versus evil here.
Ben: You know, like this, this is
really good about giving you catharsis.
Like the evil racist cops get their due.
The domestic violence, like the the
domestic abuser, you know, gets, you know,
is defeated at the hands of his victims.
You know, the cake, the
racist is eaten alive.
Like it's very good about, it's very, even
if it's simplistic, it's very satisfying.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: except for the last story, which
again, I guess is our you know, financier
demanded black on black crime story,
Emily: Is that, was that
Ben: which,
Emily: For real?
Jeremy: I mean, it's, it's
Ben: no, no.
That's just us being a little conjecture.
Jeremy: was,
Ben: That's just, that's just
us being our, you know, little.
Jeremy: I feel like we're very attuned
to see those arguments now and be
like, oh, this is, this is some crap.
But I
think in the nineties that
was something that was a very
vocal discussion being had,
On the news and in media and, you know,
I think, I don't know, I, it's, I don't
know how much of it is something that it
seems like Rossi kind of wanted to talk
about and how much of it is something that
he felt like he had to do in this story.
But I, you know, the, the fourth story is
definitely the, the weakest of the group.
And I, I like the general
format of this movie.
You know, it, it's, it's got plenty
of weak points, just like any
real anthology horror stuff does.
But I think like it is important in the
context of anthology horror to at the
point that, you know, tales from the K
crypt was a, a big deal at this point.
And for there to be a version of this
that was specifically black with black
writers and the black director and
you know, black actors talking about
specifically like very every day horrors.
You know, there's not, there's, there's
stuff almost everything in this is
something that, you know, people in,
in the community were facing in some
form or another every day.
It's, you know, racism or
domestic abuse or cops.
But like, you know, it's very specific
to who the, you know, perspective
audience of the movie is supposed to be.
That like, these are things that they
would have experienced or at least would
know people that had experienced just
sort of turned up several levels but,
you know, I, I, I think it is important
in that context, even if like, there are
plenty of, there are plenty of places
that you could point out that, you know
some of the, some of the actors are,
some of the acting is a little rough.
Some of the writing is a little rough.
And, you know, certainly could have
used, I think, another editing eye
to pass over some of the bits in, in
especially the first and fourth story.
Cause that
first story, it just, it really jumps
from that that murder to like him
going through a montage of throwing a
liquor bottle at a win or at a mirror.
And then suddenly it's
a year later and there's
a lot of like us having to infer things
from the
dialogue.
Emmanuel: when I, first saw him as
sitting in his room drunk, I was like,
is this just like the next weekend?
Like
what's, what's happening?
Like what's the time scale
here that we're dealing with?
Jeremy: He is apparently
drunk in his room for a year,
Ben: we, we, really needed a montage
showing a calendar on the wall and like
the pages falling off it while the amount
of Bo beer bottles on the table like
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: The seeds in LA changing.
There's summer and then summer,
and then you know, wet summer.
Jay: Just, just really quickly on on
what's the, what's the name of the
story on not the hardcore convert?
Because I had a thought in terms of the,
the, the black on black violence question.
Like Jeremy, I, I, I think you nailed
it, that it was a very vocal conversation
at the time and I think it was
definitely vocal in black communities.
I think, I think I, lemme play it
this way, I, I, I, I don't think
that conversation has ever gone away.
And I think the black
community still takes it.
Very seriously.
But I think we see it so much as a cop
out these days as to not talking about
everything else that's happened to
us that we like that we just started
telling people, look, drop the topic.
Like you, like, first
off, it's, it's, it's, it's,
condescending and rude to think
that we're not thinking about it.
Right?
That, that this isn't a problem
that haunts us and plays.
There's not that we touching
ourselves every day.
But the second thing is, you know,
certain people in society at, at
large pretend that because that's
just no other problem that we are
legitimately facing systemic or anything
else, you know, can be addressed.
. And, and you gotta remember, like I, I
grew up in a time and, and I, I especially
see it a lot more present in conversations
among like, boomers and Generation X,
but even I grew up in a time where, you
know, you just couldn't wear certain
colors while walking down the street
that people would like tag you or they
would jump you or something like that.
So it was a very real fear and there
was a very real question of like,
how do we kind of get this to stop?
How do we adjust this?
So, I, feel like that's kind of the thing
about like the overarching movie is that,
is that everything they talked about
was something that really was like, like
it's almost like, even though it's an
anthology, I guess I'm put almost like,
even though it's an anthology almost feels
to me like no story could exist without
the other, like, you know, it's all tied,
it's all, it's all hitting community at.
and this, the, the movie really
tries to like, touch on all of them.
And even when the, when the film,
when the shorts weren't like directly
connected, like how a hardcore
convert or welcome to the mortuary are
clearly directly connected, I think
they were still like thematically
connected to the other stories, right?
Like at at, at the very
start of hardcore Convert.
Crazy K comments, man, I can't
believe I was saved by goddamn cop.
You know,
which might of, you know, the first story.
So, it, I, I, I do think it was
really born out of, you know,
just, just the social issues then.
Emily: Yeah, for sure.
I also think that I mean, I, we hear a lot
of the the black on black violence being
brought up when people talk about B L M.
and you know, and it's a big scapegoat
for people who are trying to, you
know, downplay the importance of B l M.
Yeah.
And so, but I think it is really important
to remember this movie's specific index.
Like was it, is it the Tupac,
the Hate You Give Little,
little Infants Fucks Everyone?
Was that Tupac?
Yeah.
And so that was in, in art and music.
That was a big subject.
And it's really interesting too, because
in a lot of those cases a lot of those
a lot of especially the music was
vilified for condoning this thing that
it was actually critiquing and, you
know, and a lot of white people heard
gangster rap and they heard, you know,
whatever rap was going on in their area,
in their, on their radio and thinking
like, oh, this is just like thug's,
you know, you know, slur, slur, Right.
And dismissing it when it was
like really real valid critique.
And you know, like you said, it
was a, a big part of the discussion
and of the the social issues.
And especially, you know, like,
it, it does feel, especially as
the last episode in this, you know,
I think that it does suffer from
being like, oh, also, you know,
By the way, you know, but
like you can also like people.
also will try to devalue like black
communities and, and and not, so,
not specifically b l m, but and also
like welfare programs because they're
like, oh, well, well these families
are all abusive to each other and
there's this, this culture of abuse.
And, you know, I don't, because
of the, that was a, that
kitchen was fucking awesome.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I just wanna mention that
because I thought it was cool that
they were in a regular ass house.
Like that was a, that was a full house.
House that they were in, but with
a better color palette and more
plants, which I was like, damn.
Sissy got some good taste.
But anyway but I think that like, yeah,
we could talk about, How these issues
are discussed these days, you know,
whether it be abuse or black on black
violence or whatever, you know, when it's
not a cultural thing at all and it's,
you know, a part of a greater problem.
But you know, with this movie, I think
it was, it, you know, that's what was
being discussed at the time and that
was also kind of the understanding
of that situation at the time.
Jeremy: I think to the credit of this
movie, as compared to people who will
often bring up the what about black
on black crime kind of argument.
This movie recognizes that that
guy, the black guy who shot people,
is in jail and has been there for
two years and will be there for.
Some long amount of time and
the cops who were openly killing
black guys are still out on the
Jay: Right.
And, and, and you know, I, I,
think.
Ben: Yep.
Jay: It could even represent a bit
of the conversation we're having.
Cause it's, ridiculous over the top.
As, as he was, we still had
the Ku Klux Klan member.
He's like, oh, you know, my
racism is fine because you're
doing the same thing that I do.
You know?
So, so
it's but I, I, I just say, and then
this is the last time mentioned of
this section of the story, but what
sold me on the sincerity of this
section is the very ending when crazy
case, like, I don't give a fuck.
I don't give a fuck.
Case it over and over again.
And the reason that sold me as
sincere is because that fatalism in
young black men is a very real thing.
Like, yes, you could like talk
about the, the, the social
reasons and all that all day.
And, you know, we could even talk about
like the psychology of, of having this
attitude, oh well I didn't have mine
in life, which crazy kid very much has.
But I think it's that, just
that one particular blind.
That sold it for me because it is, it,
it is that real just fatalist attitude
that exists in, in young black men.
and I think, again, part of like the
issue today is that, you know, not
only does the, does that conversation
come at the cost of other serious
stuff it also ignores trends.
like I was saying earlier I couldn't
wear certain color clothing around the
corner, but I live in the same exact
neighborhood now, and it's like one of
the most peaceful places in the world.
The demographics haven't like, shifted
dramatically or anything like that.
It's just the better quality of life.
And, and so, you know,
everything's better.
So people tend to ignore that part
because they're like, oh, what
about the black and black violence?
It's like, well, depending on
where you are, the black and black
violence has been going down.
Ben: Yeah.
What?
What about when it's no longer useful
as a fucking distraction in a cudjo?
Jay: Right.
Ben: Or like bad faith dip shits.
The wine that when I first heard it
in this movie that like really stuck
with me was in the Walter story.
When he tells the teacher, he
said, you wouldn't believe me.
And at first I'm like, oh damn.
What a hardest thing about how hard it's
to ask for help and how little there is.
And then by the end of
it, I thought about it.
I'm like, well, hold on Walter,
you insisted on describing
it as a mythical creature.
If you had said, my mom's
boyfriend is hitting on me.
Like everyone would've believed you.
I know, I know.
I shouldn't blame the child, but I'm
just saying, Walter, maybe there's some
lessons here in terms of communication.
Emily: He's a ch Yeah, I'm,
I'm, I'm going with the
the
Ben: Yes, he is a child, but first, like
again, if you want people to believe.
Don't describe them as mythical beings.
Emily: When you're an adult.
Certainly like if you want someone,
if, I mean abuse is complex, but
I don't You have a good point
that communication is important.
Ben: Like I'm just, again,
I mostly just bring it up.
Cuz when I first, when they
first said the line, I'm like,
oh damn, that makes you think.
And then at the end I'm like, hold on.
I did more thinking.
Jeremy: I've
Emily: it was successful
Jeremy: thought too.
Ben: Yeah.
Too much thinking.
Let's go.
Let's unpack this.
Emily: I wanna respond to what you
said earlier, Jay, about the the crazy
Kay's response to the moral lesson,
like to the, the big lesson, you know?
And I felt, yeah, I think that
that was actually profound because
this is a very, very simple.
discussion.
And if it worked, if it was that easy
to convince somebody of their issue, you
know, of their wrongs, it would've worked.
You know, the wrongs
would've stopped by now,
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: But yeah, I, I think that that
is, I agree that it's an indicator that
there's, there's a little bit more to it
than just like, wow, isn't this fucked up?
Jay: Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
The, the thing that made me laugh
is you were talking about lines that
really stuck with you, and one of the
few that I wrote down word for word
was, I ain't afraid no dolls man.
Fuck a Barbie
Emmanuel: That was, was that
one of the ones from like, was
it the Bulldog Stack and Ball?
Jeremy: Yeah.
But after
they hear the story about the, about
Duke being killed by by dolls, he says
He's not afraid of any dolls, man.
Fuck a Barbie.
Emmanuel: I just love that they, at
the beginning of the story, the frame
narrative, they're talking about walking
into the funeral home and he's like,
what if like a dead guy like comes up?
He's like, if a dead motherfucker
come fucking with you, you kill it.
In my notes I have how sway,
like it's already dead.
Like,
Emily: Yeah.
And then he says that, and he's
like, he's like, refried beans.
If why don't you fry
it right the first time
Jeremy: The real irony
Emily: ref fry it?
Jeremy: the whole time.
Emily: Whoa.
The, yeah.
And like this place
does look evil as shit.
Jay: Yeah, for real.
Emily: And I'm like, I don't know.
Which, I know it wasn't, I couldn't
remember which one was stacker ball.
I know that.
I know which one was bulldog.
But the guy on the plaid seemed
to have a lot of sense and he was
like, He was like actually being
there, like being the character
instead of like a cartoon character.
He's like, Hmm, I don't know you guys.
And everyone else is
like, yeah, let's get him.
Jay: I would say in terms of, of like kind
of focusing on the wrong part of the film.
I think that's the one that I
hyperfocused on because he, cause
he goes in there, he is like, oh,
this place looks super creepy.
I don't think we should go reveal.
I'm like, well, was he gonna go home?
I don't think that's the way it works.
Emmanuel: Maybe he just
spins eternity going about his business,
like running errands and whatnot.
Emily: So I guess when you know
you're doing your, like going through
the tunnel of your life and all the
metaphorical shit that happens, you
know, as you're like processing death,
don't go in the creepy ass house,
you
know, if you're like, yeah, if
it looks evil as shit, maybe
Jeremy: I mean, I do have to say
the one thing that does bother me a
little bit is that I feel like the
morality shifts a little bit throughout
this movie in that like, Crazy.
Kay is offered every opportunity to
change his trajectory at the end.
And they're like, no.
Like he is already dead.
For all intents and
purposes at this point.
And our, our, you know, as presumably
God characters is giving him a chance
to like, change his ways, but Clarence
doesn't get in a three on one fight with
three white cops and, and they're like,
nah, fuck you, you're cursed forever.
because
like, cuz that, that scene is
like, he's kind of dumb.
The thing that they were just going to
take that, that dude to the hospital.
But also, what was he gonna do?
Was he gonna
Emily: right?
Jeremy: throw down with all three of these
guys in the middle of wherever
Emily: Yeah.
He's a rookie cop on the like
new to the force in these three
fucking like white supremacy cops.
are
Jeremy: Ethan Hawk and.
Jay: Yeah, we've, we've been like, I
mean, they're not only like three rights.
an entire drug network.
They weren't alone in that.
Ben: No, they had that ready to
go like this is not the first
person they've made disappear.
Emily: Which is why I think
Ben: a standard operating procedure.
Emily: it was so simple for them
to like lay it all on Clarence.
Like I know that one guy got
his head cut off and one guy was
pulled into a grave dick first.
But you know, with that department
looking into the crime, I think that a
lot of those details were just kind of.
Ben: Yeah, I also wanna meet the
cop who wrote this and was like,
so Clarence is this normal dude.
Then ripped in like with his
bare hands, ripped through the
top, and then just pulled off a
human's head using only strip.
Like, look man, I'm a, I'm union.
Like I got pension going.
Let's just get this paper where I go.
Like, go for whiffing, get to lunch.
Emily: And then later a man walks
into an office and he is like,
Scully, you're not gonna believe this.
Jay: It's
what happened to me,
what happened here, boys.
He stuffed that man inside the.
Emily: I do wanna see the X-Files episode
where they're investigating this crime.
Where they're like, wait
a minute, what happened?
And like, you know, molders, like
going to the cop mural and being like,
Hmm,
Emmanuel: Taste like white guy.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: a, that was a wild image.
Jeremy: I don't know.
I, I, I do wanna say, we talked
a little bit about the lack
of feminism in this movie.
It's pretty bad.
There's,
you know, there are only really, you
know, there's the reporter and then
basically two, two black women characters,
one of whom
is a, one of whom is a, a victim
who flirts with this teacher.
She has only met seconds before.
And the other one is I
don't know, maybe God.
But super manipulative, horrible God,
Ben: Definitely an old,
definitely Old Testament.
God.
Jay: Oh, testament
Jeremy: God,
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: likes to put a
sea clamp on your nuts.
Ben: Testament energy on this God.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jay: Yeah.
There, there's, there's a man I, I
wish, I cannot remember the direct
quote, but there is um, a really good.
Documentary on the Black
Panther party called Vanguards
of a Rev of the Revolution.
And there's a line like it, it basically
takes you through the entire four
year history of the Black Panthers.
And it basically talks about how, the
women took over the leadership of
the Black Panther party and there's a
line in there, something about, while
the Black Panthers, were focused on,
initially black separatists, but then
they changed like black unity and lifting
giving black people the same rights.
And then they joined, like they founded
the rainbow Coalition and you know,
they're about unity among races, but the
women in the party felt like they had
never quite reached that place or they
really embraced like, Feminism until it
was the women that were forced to take
over the party because, you know, the men
were in prison and there's like some mind
in there, like, you know, we were able
to like heighten the, the revolution, but
we weren't able to, you know, get them to
revolutionary heaven or whatever it is.
And I really, I'm, I'm really sorry
to like, butchering the quote because
it's really poignant, quote, but it
does like address that kind of, I guess
having a blind side when it comes to
like, you know, women's rights and
especially rights for black women I
guess in the struggle you would say.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Cause E even in, you know, the
story that is about abuse, her
abuse is almost secondary, like it
is about the abuse of the child.
And she is also getting hit.
You
know, she's, she's not the main
character of this story by any stretch.
And.
. Yeah.
I mean, it, it, that's
one of its blind spots.
The second one, and this I think is
largely due to the time it's come out,
is there's no attempt at any sort of
representation from, you know, the queer
community, from any, any angle whatsoever.
It is one might say aggressively straight.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, it's in the nineties,
which,
Jay: that too.
Yeah.
Emily: yeah.
Yeah,
Jeremy: Not, not even a
potentially queer coded
supporting character,
Ben: Yeah.
yeah.
Jay: when, when when the height
of Hollywood feminism was GI Jane.
Emily: they took off Demi Moore terror.
What the fuck?
It's
Jeremy: Revolut.
Ben: for
Emily: over
Ben: to inspire a viral Oscar
moment, 25 years from now.
Emily: God.
Jeremy: God damn.
Emily: Oh God damn it.
I didn't even think about that.
It's funny because I was
also thinking about how
Ben: Don't fucking imagine being Chris
Rock of all the things he's joked about
in his career and that a G J joke is
what gets him like physically attacked.
Jay: I, I, I think, I think Emily
and I were on the same page.
Cause we were just thinking like that,
that was like, that was like the big
deal that Oh, she shaded up her hair.
But how horrible was, you know, it's like
Emily: yeah,
Jay: that role
Emily: yeah.
I will say also jaded pink.
It's.
Is better like feminist
character in Demonn Night.
The tales of the Crip movie, which is,
Ben: Yeah, Demonn night, which FYI
is definitely my recommendation.
If
Emmanuel: I found out, this is like
Ben: Fucking Demonn Night.
Emmanuel: one of my wife's like
favorite movies the other day.
Like, she's like, yeah, like it was like,
I, I, watched it all the time as a kid.
I'm like, how, what?
You hate horror.
Ben: No, that makes sense.
Like,
again, it's like, it's in that like, it's
that fun horror.
Like
Jeremy: Zane producing
that sponge from his mouth
is, will never
Ben: like,
Jeremy: one of the
greatest moments in cinema.
Ben: like something like
this or demon night.
I absolutely understand.
Like someone at just the right
age watching and being like, oh,
this is the movie that kicked
off my lifelong love of horror.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: I mean, Demonn Knight
is a follow through away from
being Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Like
Ben: Demonn Night is one of my favorite
movies we've ever done on this podcast.
I fucking love Demonn.
Emily: Movies of Revelation.
Jeremy: Yeah.
It's being of, of things we love, I think
it's point time for us to decide whether
or not this was something we loved.
Do we think it's worth people?
Ben: Oh, hell yeah.
Fucking absolutely.
This movie is fucking so much fun.
Hell yeah.
Fucking cheesy, nineties horror.
Emily: And this
movie,
Emmanuel: if
you
Ben: No fault.
Didn't know how to end that.
Just, I guess just dot, dot, dot.
Period.
Emmanuel: I was just thinking like as
I was a kid in the nineties, and so
parts of this are familiar and many of
these touchstones don't escape me, but
it is like a neat little time capsule.
So I think there, it's fun for
watching in that sense too.
Jeremy: It is, it is sort of weird
and that it is a movie that is in some
ways meant to be taken so seriously,
but to enjoy it, you can't really
take it that seriously because like,
there are elements of this that you're
like, all right, that's very nineties.
All right.
Like there's, there's a lot of, you
know, those, those first couple minutes
of our, you know, three gangsters
sort of on the doorstep chit chatting,
Whatever before they go in this place.
I was like, I was almost like,
ah, I don't know about this guys.
I might, might, I might
all out of this one.
But then, you know, once, once, once the
mortician pops up, you can't look away.
Emily: I, that's it.
Ben: he's fucking.
Emily: Well, Jeremy, your, your
description of a movie that is somewhat
attended to take seriously, but kind of
impossible to take seriously, I think
is a very, very good ARAT explanation of
like, description of this movie because,
and I think that that's the, the part
that is confusing to people who aren't
really like, ready for this kind of genre.
And you know, especially like when I
was in high school and watching horror,
I liked stuff to be serious because I
was, you know, I was rude in Vertigo
comics too, and I wanted stuff to be
serious and weird and I didn't get like
the horror comedy so much until like,
I was in college and I kind of like,
you know, got over myself a little bit,
Jeremy: It's, it is tough because
you have to be like, oh yeah,
police brutality is a very serious.
an important problem,
and especially at this
point, was like something
very much on people's minds.
Not that it's not now but like, you know,
it was very active at that point and it's
just like, yes, that is a serious problem.
What is happening to this
character is very serious.
Now he does rise from the dead
by grabbing a man by the nuts
and pulling him underground,
.
And he
does crucify another man with
syringes and turn him into a painting.
Ben: This is a movie that wants you
to both emotionally understand the
horror and bru of police brutality,
and also appreciate the fine
comedy of a man receiving grievous
grievous damage to his nut sack.
Emily: I, yes,
but
Jeremy: movie is the
Ben: So it's a real
emotional complexity line.
It's very, very ancient
Greek in that kinda.
Jeremy: it's the equivalent of watching
any performance by Danny Trejo.
Really like,
it's like, He's deadly serious,
and that meant is scary,
but also he is pretty funny.
Emily: Yes.
And I, it's part of that, like, I
think it's why horror movies like this
and, and like fun horror that actually
discusses serious shit is important.
Just like how comics will, yeah, comics
have to reduce these serious issues.
But it does help understanding a little
bit, like, as long as you're not expecting
this to be nuanced, which it isn't, you
know, like it's, it's just like you can't
critique this like it is a New York time,
or not New York, like a New Yorker article
that delves into the, you know, whatever.
Like it's, it's comic book violence
and com and like horror fun and you
know, I think that being more serious.
I, you know, I think it's important
to also talk about serious things
in a little bit more of a casual
way in certain circles, you know,
as long as everybody's down.
Because otherwise it's gonna be like the
domestic violence, you know, or we don't
talk about it or the, you know, the why,
you know, just presenting somebody with
this comparison of you've killed your
friends and innocent people and, you know,
and you may have killed the same number
of black people as this white supremacist.
I don't think that that's the
case, but I feel like that's a,
yeah, I think that's hyperbolic.
But you know, I I feel like those are,
I totally lost my train of thought.
Holy shit.
Emmanuel: Discussing
serious things and without
Ben: Choo, there
Emily: no.
Yeah.
I'm
so sorry.
I was just thinking so much
about everything all at once.
I went into a different dimension,
but yeah, I think that that, that it's
right.
It,
Ben: we love ya.
Emily: thank you so much.
Thank you everybody.
No, I think it's important that
we start the discussion somewhere.
And it's also important that we
have the discussion on different
media and like different situations.
Like, you know, X-Men talked about a lot
the X-Men was oblique about it because,
you know, it wasn't like Power Man, right?
But X-Men was, was like,
you know, racism sucks.
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: but it was also like, but what,
instead if, if race it was like a
human, like Homo Xavier or whatever,
that's a totally different story.
Emmanuel: You're my favorite person.
Emily: really
Emmanuel: Just
Ben: sucks, but Homo Xavier.
Emily: now
I'm just talking about how they're
like a different, a different species
Jeremy: What, what if instead of black
people, they were, they were attractive
teenage, white people with superpowers,
then wouldn't racism suck, right?
Ben: Oh, no, Xavier.
Emily: are called Ho Homo Xavier.
Jeremy: No.
Ben: Yep.
Nailed
Emmanuel: Sapien Superior.
I thought
Ben: You
killing it.
Emily: Oh, I love that.
Homo Sapien superior.
Although Homo Xavier, I
think is my favorite dui,
Emmanuel: they
didn't get their like by no meal taxonomy
name until Professor X came on and he
was like, you could call him Homo Xavier.
I'm
just saying, look,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I think that's
an underground punk band.
The Homo Xavi Xavier.
Emily: that.
Well, homo Xavier, who when you create
your band, just, you don't need to pay us.
This is your, I this is
yours.
As
Jeremy: already existed just
by you saying the words.
Emmanuel: You do have to
subscribe to the Patreon though.
Emily: yeah, no, please.
And also just give us a shout out.
That's all my, that's all I ask.
Ben: Is this a real, I thought this was a
fictional bandwidth in the X-Men universe.
Are we talking through like dimensions?
Emily: I'm done.
Yes.
Ben: in this episode?
Emily: I told you I was
traveling dimensions.
That's why I couldn't stay.
Ben: from the hood?
Fucking what's going on?
Emily: I'm saying.
It's important to talk about racist
and directly, and then Homo Xavier's,
the band When you form, once you
hear this episode and form your band
with this name, give us a shout out.
all I ask.
Jeremy: form like a
Voltron of gay Xavier's.
Jay: So,
Emily: now?
Ben: Don't know,
Jay: so there's a reason I
watched this film four Times,
Ben: it's
Jay: I can figure out what
it was myself at first.
I, I know I was talking to a friend
of mine and I mentioned that I was
gonna be on this podcast about film,
and he talked about the ending.
He's like, let's admit it.
That's the only good part of the movie.
And something in me got really, you
know, a little apprehensive about that.
I'm like, no, I think
there's more to this movie.
And, and, and I think it's awkward.
It's an awkward film.
It's, it's it's definitely
a product of its time.
You know, and it's definitely.
not as evolved, I think as we kind
of like use horror these days, but
compared to a lot of what other stuff
people were doing in the nineties
with horror, I would say it was,
it was pretty advanced for that.
And you know, I think, I think, I think,
you know, film mystery is important even
when it's, when it's for something, you
know, per genre that maybe isn't quite
as respected and even though I personally
think horror should be respected more,
but it's, it's, it's good to have like
this kind of tidbit of, of film history.
I, I, I think it's, if nothing
else, you know, everyone
will get something out of it.
Even if you don't walk away with like,
kind of lessons of race and this is how
kind the, the, was in America at the time.
You away with something
entertaining, you know, definitely.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, I, I think the biggest problem
with it, other than sort of lack of
female characters is the, the very, it,
it's like the nineties gang equivalent
of like rusty kind of really writing
like, hello fellow kids in this script.
Every time that the, the gangsters
are on screen, it's just like, Okay.
This is, this is what they sound like.
But I, I guess on that front what
would we recommend people check
out from, you know, from here Jay,
what, what do you have to recommend?
Jay: So, I would actually recommend two
films and, and probably back to back kick.
My, my first one is sweet
Sweetback Badass song.
It's you know, the first what we kind of
ticked off the Blacksploitation movement.
And then as a supplement to, to that, I
would recommend the 2003 autobiographical
drama called Badass that was done
by, you know, Mario Van Peebles.
And based on kind of his experiences
in childhood growing up around that set
because I, I, I feel like that gives
you a real quick and dirty, you know,
look at what it was to kind of like,
be black and a filmmaker and not having
any kind of resources Hollywood was
interested in giving you at the time,
and maybe seeing how other movies then
came out of that, not only in the black
expectation era, but also like in the
height of the nineties when you had
all this stuff like, you know, menace
to society and you know, tales from
the hood and just everything else.
Those are my two recommendations.
Jeremy: Awesome.
Emmanuel, what have you got?
Emmanuel: I always struggle with
this, been trying to think of
other things and so what I came up
with this week looking at a lot of
this, how it's built around the.
Stories surrounding these bodies
and how each are almost like
lessons to the frame narrative.
I was thinking of Jason Reynold's
long way down it's a YA novel.
A kid's older brother gets shot and
killed and he wants to get revenge and
so he finds his brother's weapon, gets
in the elevator but at each floor of the
elevator, folks from his past who are
now dead get on and try and counsel him.
And so it's kind of an interesting
narrative where the frame is the
travel down this elevator and how
it takes so long to get there.
But you have all of these different
tangential stories dealing with
gun violence and dealing with
violence in the inner city.
So, and it's Jason Reynolds
and so it's just, it's great.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: That sounds good,
especially with the elevator.
Those are especially terrifying to me.
Jay: Yeah.
My mom too.
Yeah, she was like,
Emily: The trust box.
I don't want to go in the trust box.
I don't trust it.
Jeremy: Well, what, what
do you trust, Emily?
What, what do you wanna recommend?
Emily: I I was thinking a lot
about the various parts of the
first season of American gods.
There's some really good stuff there.
And in terms of like the coming to
America, there's a really great sequence.
Any part with a Nazi is really great.
And the Anbu, there's, there's
a actual anbu in that one.
But and the, the story of the, I think
the story of the main character, but yeah,
the, the only, the first season though,
the second season kind of gets off track.
. But and I'm enjoying Cabinet of
Curiosities which is another great
anthology, which is the Guillermo
del Toro Cabinet of Curiosities.
I've mentioned that what I really wanna
recommend is that if you are a fan, you
if you wanna watch this movie and you
want a good pairing for this movie to
learn how a great filmmaker came into
his own, just watch Key and Peel because
this movie is in that d n a, like, you
can see the D n A and how it's, it's
developed in the work of Jordan Peele.
And it's a really good way to show
the, the development of horror.
And if you don't want to just watch
horror and war and you wanna really get
into it, that's, you know, your homework
is to watch that and key and peel and,
you know, and then horror and war.
and then all the Jordan Peel stuff.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben, what have you got?
Ben: Fucking go
Emily: Oh yeah.
Ben: night.
Jeremy: Do do Watch Demon?
We do recommend that.
And then listen to our episode on it.
Cause we did a whole episode
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: It's great.
Ben: Give us downloads.
Five stars.
Fuck it.
Whatever.
Engagements and shit I don't know.
We don't have advertisers.
Emily: We're really funny in that episode.
I mean, we're in fu We're funny in every
episode,
but that episode you like, if you just
need some infectious laughter, listen
to the episode and watch the movie.
Jeremy: Yeah.
What I wanna recommend is I mean
we talked quite a bit about H Noir,
the documentary that is obviously
something people should watch.
They do talk about this film as well as
several of the other films we've mentioned
as we've been going through this.
They did last year release a horror
noir anthology movie series as well.
It is very much like this
in that it is uneven.
There are some pretty good short films
and there are some less great short films,
some that have, you know, Conceptual
merit and some that you're like a, I
don't know how this ended up in here,
but you know, it's, it's got some real
good stuff and it's got some, you know,
newer directors and writers in there and
they are all, you know, black writers
and directors telling horror stories.
So if that is what you come to
tales from the hood looking for,
then you can find more of it there.
And, you know, much more recent
by about 20 years almost,
almost 30, getting up there.
But yeah, that is that's what
I'd recommend you check out.
So that's a, a lot of good
recommendations from folks here.
That's gonna do it for us.
Jay, can you let people know
where they can find you and
find out more about your work?
Jay: Absolutely.
You can find me on Twitter,
cynical angst and you know, you
could reach me for questions,
comments, request@jjcolumbia.edu.
Jeremy: Fantastic.
And Emmanuel, what about you?
Emmanuel: I'm on Twitter at SCU two.
Emily: Awesome.
Jeremy: Awesome.
And as for the rest of us,
oh, what are you doing?
Sorry, my document just went crazy.
Ben: Know what I'm doing
and that should be clear
Jeremy: what are you doing?
Emily: I sure don't know what I'm doing,
Jeremy: As to the rest of us.
You can find Emily at Mega Moth on
Twitter and mega underscore moth on
Instagram, and you can find mega moth.net.
Ben is on Twitter at Ben the Con and on
their website@benconcomics.com where you
can pick up all of their books, including
you can pre-order their new novel.
L Campbell wins the weekend, their
debut graphic novel from Scholastic.
Go order it so that you can
get those pre-orders in.
Pre-orders are important.
We would love it if you
did that pre-ordering.
Emily: please or else
Ben: Pre-orders super
important for a novel.
So that's l Campbell wins their
weekend coming out October 17th.
Give it a pre-order.
Jeremy: yes.
Emily: Cover art as well.
Jeremy: yes.
The, the cover is on is on
Ben's Twitter right now.
It's, it's fantastic.
And finally for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at j Rome 58 and
on my website@jeremywhitley.com, where
you can check out everything I write.
And of course, the podcast is on Patreon
It progressively horrified on our
website@progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
and on Twitter, prag horror podd.
We would love to hear from you and we
would love to get in contact with you.
And we would love for you to leave
us reviews of this podcast, five star
reviews, help us find more listeners,
help us get out there to a wider audience.
Thanks again to Jay and
Emmanuel for joining us.
Guys, it was a great time.
I really enjoyed talking
to you guys about this one,
Emmanuel: Always
Jay: for having me.
Yeah.
having us.
And I enjoyed it.
Cause I, I, I legitimately have
some of tales from the hood.
Jeremy: Yeah.
And I'm, I'm, I know we do now too.
And uh, thanks as always to Ben and Emily
and thank you to all of you for listening.
Until next time, stay horrified.