Dr. Amy Hoyt (02:12)
Hi everyone, welcome back. This week we are continuing our focus on domestic violence because October is domestic violence awareness month and we are going to be actually discussing a topic that is pretty sensitive and sometimes a little scary I think. And today we're talking about sexual abuse, sexual assault and trauma
and how really how that plays out within domestic violence.
Leina (02:46)
Right. And I think what's really an interesting thing to note is that when you have a relationship that has domestic violence in it, so intimate partner violence in it, what you see really is the power and control dynamic that then overshadows every aspect of the relationship. So the financial, the emotional, the mental, the sexual, the psychological, the physical.
And it's unusual to have a domestic violence or intimate partner violence relationship and not have sexual assault and battery part of it, unfortunately.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (03:26)
That's interesting. Okay. I did not realize that. So we did discuss this a little bit, last week that it can include, you know, domestic violence can include, sexual assault, but we really didn't go into great detail. And so I guess, one of the things I want to break down is, you know,
a lot of times, especially in a committed relationship, such as marriage or a domestic partnership, there is not a realization that there is coercion sexually. And so what are some of the, the signs or, you know, how would one know beyond, you know, a straight up surprise assault, which I think it's a little more nuanced than that, that they're being
Leina (04:07)
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:25)
coerced or, you know, really targeted in a way that displays power and control. What are some of those signs?
Leina (04:35)
I don't think they're very obvious if you're in the dynamic. I think they're pretty subtle. I think we mentioned in our first episode for this month about gaslighting, but I don't know that we mentioned it last time, but the gaslighting has a lot to do with it. It can have a lot to do with it sexually, the sexual domination and the power and control dynamic. You also get a lot of emotional blackmail and guilting. Those can be subtle.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:38)
Mm-hmm.
Leina (05:05)
Part of the gaslighting is this aggressive or abusive sexual behavior that then you're told is not abusive or aggressive. That you're the one with the problem because you're uncomfortable or having a reaction to some of the intensity or the behavior or stuff that's coming out during sexual behavior or sexual engagement with your partner. And so once again, you're the crazy one because
you're the one who has upset feelings about what's happening, and since the person that has the power and control can't be wrong, it has to be you who's crazy, or you who's weird because you don't like these things, or you're not comfortable with these types of things.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (05:53)
Okay. So like I'm thinking of, know, you're so uptight. Why, why won't you just loosen up and let me XYZ? What is wrong with you?
Leina (05:59)
Yes.
Yes. Why can't you relax? Why? So it's really an interesting dynamic and it's a real mind. It really screws with your mind because by virtue of the sexual engagement containing power and control dynamics, the person who does not have the power is going to be tense.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (06:31)
Yes.
Leina (06:31)
because they are in a dangerous situation. And so then you get a partner who's, know, ranting at you or complaining to you that you're not relaxed and you won't just go with the flow. But in essence, your body is saying, I can't be vulnerable to this person because it's too dangerous. And it's subconscious a lot of times.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (06:53)
Yeah, yeah, because if you're in the dynamic, as you said, you're not necessarily aware that it's as bad as it is. And so you're trying to be intimate with your partner. You're trying to please them because that's, yeah, it's much safer to please them. And but your body, as we know, the body does hold on
Leina (07:01)
Mm-hmm. Correct.
It's safe.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (07:21)
subconsciously to that sense of danger. And we are conscious of it at times, but in this sort of dynamic that's long term, it is at least the way I experienced it when I was in a domestic violence dynamic, is that you become so immune to how dysfunctional it is that you really doubt
Leina (07:25)
Right.
Mhm.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (07:48)
your every decision, your every thought, your every feeling.
Leina (07:51)
Mm-hmm. Well, and that's part of how you survive it, to be quite honest with you. That's not some kind of character flaw or weakness in the person who's being victimized. It is absolute survival because the more complacent and the more compliant and the more agreeable you are, the brain believes that you will have less danger in your relationship.
The problem, though, with intimate partner violence or domestic violence is that it doesn't have any basis in reasonableness or logic.
But the brain is always looking for logic and reasons. And so when we have this dynamic going on, we can't figure out what's going on and we're being told over and over again that it's us.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:40)
Yeah, yeah. And so we believe that.
Leina (08:45)
We kind of have to to survive the dynamic.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:49)
Yes. And so going back to looking at sexual abuse, sexual assault, so some of the things, you know, being criticized for being too uptight, feeling uncomfortable, but not feeling that you can verbalize that, that would be a sign.
Leina (09:10)
Absolutely. Yep.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:15)
I'm trying to think, you know, because when I was in this situation, I just, there was so much shame about being in this situation, I would never talk to anyone about it. And so I'm trying to think of other things that would help a listener identify that this is not okay, essentially, any sexual interaction that you do not feel
Leina (09:24)
Of course.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:44)
that your full consent is honored is a form of assault. It is.
Leina (09:49)
Yeah.
Right, yeah. I think that's a really good clarification. And some of you listening to this might find that absolutely horrifying and maybe you're in a situation where for your survival you've had to go along and that's legitimate. That's legitimate, okay? So if you realize that maybe there's more sexual coercion or abuse or assault in your relationship than you,
Dr. Amy Hoyt (10:11)
Yes.
Leina (10:21)
had previously realized, give yourself some grace and notice without judgment how it's affecting you to kind of come into this realization. Because it's going to be really hard and overwhelming. And you don't have to do anything about it right now. That's one of the things that is really hard about our society is that people in general act like the victim should have all this power. So once you realize that you're being victimized, you
should do ABC or XYZ and if you don't there's something wrong with you. No, there's nothing wrong with you. You're trying to survive and it's been successful.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (11:03)
Yeah. And I think the other besides cultural and societal pressure, to take action, there's also an internal sense when our brain knows something, it wants to do something about it. So when we know better, we want to, I mean, the brain loves novelty, the brain loves learning. The brain also loves shortcut. So we're competing against those two things, you know, but, I think it, takes...
Leina (11:18)
That's a great point.
What?
Dr. Amy Hoyt (11:34)
just as someone who's been through this, it is that realization is incremental because it's almost too dangerous to admit it at one time. And so if you're having those incremental realizations, it's okay to, as Leina said, just notice them and get curious about how you feel during a sexual encounter with your partner, your spouse, your
Leina (11:41)
Yes.
All at once. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:03)
you know, relationship period. Do you feel like it's consensual? Do you feel,
Leina (12:07)
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:13)
that you have some sort of ability to direct your own actions within the sexual encounter.
Leina (12:20)
That's a really good clarifier, yes. Because when we're in a power and control dynamic, we lose agency. And so that clarifier of, you have a sense that you can control your own behavior within this sexual encounter? I think that's really great. And as you said, being able to be curious about it and stay away from judgment, as we've talked about multiple times, judgment stops the...
the assessing part of our brain, it stops the gathering of information for our brain. And so we're always trying to stay out of judgment so that we can gather information and see what's going on. But it's one of the hardest things to do. I can remember listening to Brene Brown years ago when I first discovered her, her TED talk that included talks.
It included discussion about the difference between sympathy and empathy. And she said something about staying out of judgment. And then she says, which is really hard to do when you love it as much as most of us do. Like our brain is a judging machine. And so the skill of noticing without judgment or using benevolent or loving curiosity, that is hard stuff. But it is essential to healing.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:33)
Yes.
It is.
If you are having some aha moments where you recognize yourself or recognize some of these patterns in your own relationship, see if there's anyone that you feel comfortable discussing in general terms, even some of the things that you're discovering. And of course we have a program that helps people. There are you know, many other
options. There are individual therapists, there are group programs, but essentially, I think the turning point for me was having someone that I could just admit. I mean, I didn't admit anything except for like something super small, but then it opened up, you know, but just having the ability to talk to one person about what was happening was
Leina (14:39)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (14:47)
helpful, really helpful.
Leina (14:48)
Yes, and I like your idea of just being very general. So in general, one of the most prominent features of intimate partner violence or domestic violence is that you're never allowed to say no about anything, ever. Not about whether or not you will cook this meal, not about whether or not you will go to the grocery store, whether or not you will... You're just never allowed to say no.
No boundaries are honored in the intimate partner violence relationship. And so you could maybe see if you can find somebody who will not be reactive. And you could explain, like, I'm really struggling because it seems like a lot of times when my partner wants me to do something and I hesitate, I get a lot of blowback. And that would be a great way to start a conversation just in general. And I would
I forgot to mention, I've had several clients talk to me where I was their second, third, fourth therapist and they've had therapists that say, I can't help you if you're not going to leave the perpetrator. Which is horrific because first of all, that is a therapist issue. It's counter-transference and it means I can't tolerate my distress over your situation.
And if you're the therapist saying that, you need to find a therapist. Because what that does is it shames the victim, once again, which is the exact environment they're coming from. And so you want to be careful that whatever help you seek, whether it's personal friend or clergy or programs or groups, whatever, that they do not engage in the same dynamic that you're in in your intimate
partner relationship.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:46)
That's a great point.
As any other profession, there's excellent therapists, there's mediocre therapists, and there's terrible therapists, just like any other profession in the world. So, you know.
Leina (16:55)
Yeah, that's a point. Yeah, and a good therapist is a therapist that understands that they need their own therapy. They need to have their own mental health stuff. And so you should not ever be made to feel guilty by a therapist because you're not performing the way they want you to.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (17:19)
Well, thank you so much for joining us once again. We know this is a tough topic, but it's just so important and it's so prevalent, quite frankly, in our society, unfortunately. And we're grateful that you tune in and we're grateful to have you as listeners. So thank you so much and we will be with you next week.
Leina (17:28)
Absolutely.
Have a great week, everyone.