Adrienne (00:01.122)
Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Sugar Coated. Happy 2024. I cannot wait to introduce my next guest to you. She's going to help us set ourselves up for success, mentally, in 2024. I'm so pleased to welcome Olivia Verholst to the Sugar Coated podcast.
She is a licensed psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, wellness consultant, media contributor, Forbes health advisor, certified perinatal mental health provider, and an adjunct professor at NYU. She's certified to provide telehealth in New York, New Jersey, and Florida. One of Olivia's primary passions lies within the realm of delivering effective therapy services, helping individuals to improve their lives with lasting change,
and spreading trauma-informed awareness around mental health so that she destigmatizes having hard and vulnerable conversations that can improve our wellbeing. It's Olivia's belief that the more loudly we discuss mental health, the less inclined others will be to continue to suffer in silence. And I cannot agree with that statement more. Olivia's areas of specialty are trauma, relationship issues, high achievers with anxiety,
think we can all relate to that, a high, highly sensitive people, and perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, and maternal mental health. Olivia has been all over the media, which is so exciting. She's also been a speaker at the She Leads Live conference. She's been on PIX 11, New York Living, News 12, NBC, Cosmo Shape, Mantra, Thrive, Global, Forbes, The Skim,
wake and wake up with Marcy. So with that incredible introduction, I cannot wait to say hello to Olivia and welcome to Sugar Coated.
Olivia Verhulst (02:04.329)
Hello, I am honestly very honored to be here speaking with you. So thank you so much for having me in that amazing introduction.
Adrienne (02:12.838)
Oh my gosh. Well, the amazing introduction comes from the fact that you have so many accomplishments and you know, it's incredible because we're going to talk today about, you know, what we can do to really set ourselves up for, you know, mental wellness and success, whatever that means to us for 2024. And I'm going to really love your perspective because not only are you helping women, but you are also an entrepreneur yourself.
who is trying to get out there, spread your message and your mission. And so you're facing a lot of the same issues that a lot of the women in the sugar-coated audience are facing as well.
Olivia Verhulst (02:54.633)
Yeah, well said. And it's a new adventure for me to be going off on my own, trying something new. And so different muscles are being worked where I do have that sense of relatability to your audience. And some of the challenges that I've gone through recently, they're new to me. So I'm really happy to be sharing this conversation with you and exploring this topic together.
Adrienne (03:16.81)
Yeah, I would definitely love to dive into this. Maybe we'll start there and then kind of go back. So you have been doing many appearances on national platforms as well as speaking engagements. And so you are putting yourself out there trying to get visibility. It's what so many women entrepreneurs are also trying to do. It's so difficult to cut.
through all of the clutter of everything with social media. So how are you being so successful in sort of getting all of these opportunities?
Olivia Verhulst (03:55.669)
Well, that's a fantastic question. It's a loaded question because there's so many different ways that I could go about it. But what I'll say is in my pitches to producers and just in my purpose, I am leading with vulnerability. So I don't leave it to the cut and dry kind of cookie cutter pitches that we might find on Google. I definitely add in my personal.
Adrienne (04:10.428)
Mmm.
Olivia Verhulst (04:21.977)
drive and my personal mission there, which is I do believe that the more publicly and loudly we are having these conversations that people want to hear, the less inclined people will be to suffer in silence. I mean, I see it every day, the impact of having these conversations publicly and just shutting light and destigmatizing mental health and supporting people, getting the help they need. I'm really targeting the areas that elicit the most shame in people.
Adrienne (04:47.36)
Mm.
Olivia Verhulst (04:51.249)
And I think it's a pivotal moment for mental health too. So people are more receptive to those pitches. And I do add that in the pitch, right? I'm like, hey, here's an article from Harvard Business Review, or here's the new research on X, Y, and Z that suggests now is the time. And so, yeah, that's a little bit of how I operate and get the attention that these topics are deserving of in my mind.
Adrienne (05:04.052)
Yeah.
Adrienne (05:17.458)
I love that because it's a little bit of the, you know, what it takes in order to get in front of the media. But I also think that what you said is so important being vulnerable, right? And sharing who you are as an individual. I think what happens to women is that we're told that we need to be something in order to get the result that we want. And so you're sort of
practicing what you're teaching about being your authentic, self-genuine and expressing that. So how can more women tap into that sense of like, I am not only okay, but also special for who I am and that's the stuff that I should be communicating. How do you kind of build that? Because I think that's like a…
a foundation before we can even think about how are we going to be successful in 2024.
Olivia Verhulst (06:21.029)
Yeah, when you as you're asking me that question, the first thing that's coming up in my mind, so it must be applicable somewhere here, is aligning with our values, is being aware of what drives us, our why, so to speak, and being aligned with our values. And then what does it feel like when we are not aligned with our values?
Adrienne (06:43.875)
Hmm
Olivia Verhulst (06:45.361)
what type of sensations come up for us mentally, emotionally, fatigue-wise, physically. And so I think this year, maybe one thing that we can focus on as entrepreneurs is really thinking about our drives, our value systems, and finding the spaces and finding the opportunities that are going to align with them. Otherwise, I do find that we're more prone to burnout.
Adrienne (07:06.69)
Hmm.
Adrienne (07:11.154)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (07:11.425)
We're more prone to identity crises. We're more prone to mental health struggles when we're not acting in our value system. That's something that came up for me. What do you think about that? Yeah. Okay.
Adrienne (07:24.286)
Yeah, I love that. This is therapy. What I really love is this idea of tapping into yourself and instead of chasing what I think we're taught to chase, which is maybe like profit, like yes, impact, but there's always in our minds, even with the press, like
Get the most exposure, make the most money, drive the most profit. And that sort of takes us outside of ourselves versus what you just said about checking in with ourselves. What are our values? And does this opportunity match with it or is it in opposition to it? And instead of like having those outer voices telling us what we should do,
Right, like how do we tap more into our inner knowing?
Olivia Verhulst (08:30.649)
Yeah, I really, I mean, you just said something that even brought me back to the first question that we were talking about is how do we arrive at success and how do we reach visibility in some ways too? And I think you had said something there about not just doing what we think we should do. And that's actually, so people often ask me for my formula, right? How, how have I achieved X, Y, and Z? And honestly, I feel like
It's not necessarily a formula. I try to be myself. I'm very open and passion driven. I don't do exactly what I have seen others do. Though with that said, mentorship is everything and I am a big advocate for mentorship and learning from others, let me tell you. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna reach out and talk my own language and do things my own way.
Adrienne (09:07.006)
Hmm
Adrienne (09:14.35)
Mentorship is everything. And I am the advocate for mentorship. And I'm so happy to be here.
Adrienne (09:23.729)
and talk my own language.
Olivia Verhulst (09:29.381)
And so that's also, I mean, hopefully, as we align with our value systems, we can think about what makes us unique and not just follow everybody else's formulas, so to speak.
Adrienne (09:35.624)
Yeah.
Adrienne (09:42.022)
Do you think that women are moving toward being more comfortable with that? Have you seen in your practice and the people that you speak to and the people that you are around, do you see that more and more that people are willing to bring someone into whatever it is that is different than everything else?
Olivia Verhulst (10:08.025)
I do. I do feel like I'm seeing that more. I'm embodying that more myself. I'm in circles with women who inspire me to do that, which means they're doing it. So I do. Do you see that similar?
Adrienne (10:18.382)
Hmm. Yeah, I do. I feel like there's something that is shifting. And I think there was maybe a movement toward like authenticity and being genuine. But it's almost I think people were trying so hard to be genuine that they lost their...
actual authenticity, because it was like they were trying to be so real, you know, that they weren't real. And so I think that there's an appetite for diversity. I'm sick of seeing the same, same. And it's so refreshing when people are themselves because that is what is so beautiful about the world, I think.
Olivia Verhulst (10:49.663)
Yes.
Olivia Verhulst (11:04.535)
Mm-hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (11:14.589)
Yes, so now we're getting into right leading with our humaneness as teachers, mentors, leaders, as individuals, as people, how we show up in our work, kind of just leading with our humaneness. Because that is what ultimately is going to make us unique, right? I mean, there's, everybody is greeting X with their own subjective experiences, right? We're a product of our very unique complex experiences. And so
Adrienne (11:19.586)
Yeah.
Adrienne (11:28.365)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (11:44.285)
We all have something unique to offer, whatever it is that we're showing up to. And I got a lot of that energy from your conference. I felt like there at the She Leads Conference, I was in the room having a visceral experience of authenticity. Like something about the space that was created felt very genuine.
Adrienne (12:04.81)
Mm. Something about how the space that was created felt very genuine. Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (12:12.369)
What was your experience, woman?
Adrienne (12:14.238)
Yeah, I do. I think, hmm, I was going to say I do try to create that environment, but I'm going to wind that back because it is actually not something that I necessarily set out to do, but I think because I've experienced it so much through hosting the Sheleads conferences that I know it's going to happen. I know that that's there. And
Olivia Verhulst (12:25.098)
for me.
Adrienne (12:43.958)
I think one of the reasons that you may have felt like that is because the producers of it, right? We are attempting to show up as our authentic selves and use all of our gifts in order to be successful and learn from others with this very open mindset, right?
I don't think that there were a lot of people at the conference that were saying that they were the expert and there's no other way, my way or the highway. It was sort of like, this is my experience, what you said, this is what has worked for me. Here's some golden nuggets that you might take that might work for you or not. You might find a different way. And so I think that open-mindedness creates that.
atmosphere.
Olivia Verhulst (13:41.649)
Yeah, I love that I lead with my therapy practice through the lens of ultimately the client or the patient is the expert of their own existence. And similar to that, it seems like you're trying to create an environment there where first of all, there was absolutely a diversity of voices there from different fields, different ideas, different ways of doing things, which was incredible.
Adrienne (13:51.767)
Yeah.
Adrienne (14:01.131)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (14:08.317)
But then, yeah, there was this emphasis of people really feeling empowered to look inward and find their why and find their how through the framework that was being offered and through the motivations that were being offered. So I really liked that.
Adrienne (14:14.482)
Yeah.
Adrienne (14:22.022)
Yeah. And I think seeing too, I think one of the things as women, entrepreneurs, leaders, just even going through business, oftentimes we're just given like a slice or a frame of what success looks like or how, you know, it's almost like how you dress, how you have to wear your hair, you know, that's successful. And if you wear your hair in a different way,
you know, listen, you're out the door. So I think that by showcasing that there are a multitude of ways to be successful, look successful, feel successful, it gives people hope. Like, oh my gosh, I actually can be me. I have to change in order to be successful.
Olivia Verhulst (15:02.238)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (15:15.249)
It gives hope, but it also gives relief. Like I feel a sigh of relief when people are like, no, you can do X, Y, and Z your way. And it's something that I remember as a budding therapist, for example, like early on during my training, there was a lot of a, like I felt like there were some boxes that we had to be in. And so kind of stepping outside that box has been a really
Adrienne (15:18.446)
Hmm
Adrienne (15:24.576)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (15:45.049)
interesting experience. But also, I mean, it's what you're saying. It's relieving and it's hopeful to identify that there is not just one way of doing things that can be effective or lead to quote unquote success. By definition, success is going to differ for every single one of us in a room.
Adrienne (15:54.868)
Yeah.
Adrienne (16:03.326)
Yeah, I actually, this I think is such a perfect opportunity because you talked about being a budding therapist. So how did you even like walk down the path of becoming a therapist in the first place?
Olivia Verhulst (16:15.325)
Oh my gosh. It's such a, it's a great question. It's a loaded question because it's like, I did not have one of those transformational moments where I was on the path to becoming, you know, something else or doing something else. And then I was like, Whoa, I should really be a therapist. A lot of people do have that moment that they can reflect back on. It's so profound and interesting to listen to. I love hearing people's stories, but
My story is a little different. I feel like I have always been wired to be a therapist. You know, I literally think, well, I'm a highly sensitive person, right? About 20% of the population identify with that highly sensitive person characteristic or trait. And so being wired to empathy and feeling deeply and being quite connection driven has just been in me since I was born.
Adrienne (16:55.504)
Okay.
Adrienne (17:07.453)
Hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (17:12.821)
essentially. And then I remember this moment, like, even on the playground, but I think I said this at the conference, even on the playground, when I was very young, I think I was in like second grade, maybe we were playing around with like a, oh, she's like the playground psychologist. But like, I'm like talking to people, I'm giving people advice. It's so silly. And, and I'm sure that's memory that memory has been added to and taken different shapes over time. But
Adrienne (17:12.875)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (17:42.425)
This is to say, it's been a path I've been on for a very long time. It has always felt right. It has always been fulfilling. And I love the sensation of actually the more that I know, the more that I don't know. It's cool, which for me is amazing because I am very learning driven. And so, so we could talk about that, but
Adrienne (17:49.474)
Hmm
Adrienne (17:59.77)
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Adrienne (18:06.442)
And so we can talk about that, but yeah, it's just always been the right path for me. And that, of course, has been developed over time, right? Maybe it starts first, like, oh, I'm going to be a psychologist. Oh, but then I ended up...
Olivia Verhulst (18:09.285)
Yeah, it's just always been the right path for me. And that of course has been developed over time, right? Maybe it starts first as like, oh, I'm going to be a psychologist. Oh, but then I ended up becoming a licensed mental health counselor, which is still under that same umbrella term of psychotherapist for us doing talk therapy. And so it's taken different forms as I've learned more, but it's been a long-term path.
Adrienne (18:26.638)
still under that same umbrella term as a psycho-therapist for us to do talk therapy. So, sit in different forms as I've...
Adrienne (18:37.338)
It's so that's really such a I think a great thing to talk about because many of us can identify within ourselves that thing, right? That gift, the thing that we just sort of did for fun that people always said, oh, you know, you're this or you're that. And it's something that we just do because it's who we are.
Adrienne (19:07.122)
you can mold and shape that and create a career around it because there are so many different options, especially now, maybe not when we were sort of, you know, going through school, you're a lot younger than I am, but all the technology and the ways to sort of, you know, do things independently didn't exist when I was coming through school, and it's more and more now. So it,
It goes back to what we were saying. It's like more important than ever to go inward because there are so many different paths. And you know, it's funny, I was reading something. I also teach at NYU. I think you know that. Yay, NYU! Love it! Classes start soon. Not prepared. You're ahead of me.
Olivia Verhulst (19:53.287)
I'm not. Who am I? I'm Sam.
Olivia Verhulst (20:00.365)
I loaded my syllabus.
Adrienne (20:05.762)
But it's, oh, so I teach entrepreneurship. And I was just reading something the other day about just experimentation within entrepreneurship. And it's the same idea, right? There are so many ideas out there. There's so many ways to develop a business, create a business model, test experiment, who's the audience.
There are so many different paths and none of them is right. It's sort of like, it's just the one that you choose. And so we have, as entrepreneurs, we don't have unlimited time, unlimited resources, so we can't explore all of those paths. So we have to choose.
Olivia Verhulst (20:43.902)
Mm-hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (20:48.425)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienne (21:02.262)
I think the knowing that we've chosen something but that there are also other paths gives a little bit of freedom, right? That we don't have to stay on that path necessarily in order to be successful. One of the messages I know that I was given growing up from society, my education, is that
choose and you stay and you keep going no matter what and that is not true anymore.
Olivia Verhulst (21:36.673)
Mm.
Yeah, it's, and you know what it's reminding me of is something that comes up in therapy work a lot and in the mental health sphere around not, around giving ourselves permission for our identities to evolve, not holding ourselves to the same standard that we did 10 years ago or five years ago. Because to your point, I think staying in our lane.
Adrienne (22:02.998)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (22:07.173)
It can provide this sense of safety or clarity perhaps, but that doesn't mean that it's the lane that we're supposed to be in 10 years later. So I think what I'm actually hitting on is giving ourselves permission to evolve, not holding ourselves to standards that we've outgrown, and allowing ourselves permission to change.
Adrienne (22:12.3)
Yeah.
Adrienne (22:22.114)
Yeah.
Adrienne (22:28.282)
Mmm.
Adrienne (22:32.352)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (22:32.433)
You know, something that we're seeing across social media is this idea that you do not need to be the person that you were two weeks ago. You do not need to be the person that you were, you know, a year ago. It's okay to change. Like we are ever evolving. And so that also has brought me, and a lot of people have spoken with, this also kind of sigh of relief of, oh, I don't...
Adrienne (22:48.13)
Hmm.
Adrienne (22:52.45)
Hmm.
Adrienne (23:00.098)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (23:02.073)
I don't need to have the same exact value systems and drives that I did a few years ago. I'm ever evolving. I change. Change is okay.
Adrienne (23:08.936)
Mm.
Adrienne (23:13.95)
Mm. So important, like such a great message for the beginning of this year. And it hits me hard because we talked a little bit before we got on the podcast about identity, right? And identity is so powerful because you sort of create this archetype in your head, right? Oh, if I'm a athlete.
If I identify as an athlete, I'm more apt to get out there and jog five miles a day. If I tell myself and others, oh, I'm a couch potato, it's going to be so much more difficult for me to get out there and jog that five miles. I might not ever do it because I don't identify as an athlete.
Olivia Verhulst (23:44.725)
Mm-hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (23:56.645)
Yeah, yeah. Giving ourselves permission to have different identities. Yeah, yeah.
Adrienne (24:01.702)
Yes. And I think, yeah, like in the beginning of this year, maybe it's important for us to do as you're suggesting, to give ourselves permission to evolve into what aligns with our values as they are now. And then even being willing to say,
that this is today without being like crazy, right? Like without being a maniac and changing from one thing to another like day after day, minute after minute, cause that's not good. But that's a different conversation. But to be able to say, you know what? This is how I'm feeling. This is what's coming up for me right now, right here. Let me kind of take a look at that, sit with that, let it bake and know that
Olivia Verhulst (24:40.113)
Right, right. That's a different conversation. Yeah.
Adrienne (24:57.194)
Maybe something happens tomorrow or in a week from now that refines that somehow, or maybe even shifts it and changes it. And I love that idea, permission to evolve, like given right here.
Olivia Verhulst (25:13.257)
Give in, give in folks. And it's funny because whether we like it or not, and whether we know it or not, Adrian, we are ever evolving. So it's the permission part that is gonna be extremely relieving and also a lot of hard work because a lot of what we're talking about requires self-awareness and a commitment to understanding ourself, what is limiting us, what core beliefs are holding us back.
Adrienne (25:22.816)
Yeah.
Adrienne (25:37.174)
Mm.
Olivia Verhulst (25:41.117)
which ones are continuing to propel us forward. But I think part of, you know, giving ourselves permission to evolve sometimes involves a grief, right? Grieving earlier chapters, right? Maybe we're going from corporate life that really fulfills us to parenthood, which is a different type of fulfillment or motherhood. And maybe that involves, you know,
Adrienne (25:44.055)
Yeah.
Adrienne (26:04.489)
Mm-hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (26:09.373)
griefing process of prior identities with the acknowledgement that things are also impermanent as they relate to corporate identities, right? Our identity can change.
Adrienne (26:20.305)
Hmm
I think this is such an important point, especially for the women that listen into this podcast. There's so many of us that we grew up in corporate and we were taught a certain set of values that worked really well within that corporate structure. And it's sort of what we know. And not that we're not intelligent and can't learn more and all of that.
Adrienne (26:52.69)
is that I'm holding onto those principles, those values, and taking them into my own business because I want my business to be as successful as some of the companies that I used to work for. But what I've found is that doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So identity, going from this corporate person that was on the rise and always doing well,
Olivia Verhulst (27:07.421)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (27:12.531)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienne (27:22.562)
to an entrepreneur that maybe recognizes that she doesn't actually know what she's doing and doesn't know how to do all the things that are necessary in order to have a profitable and successful business. That identity shift for me, and I think for others in the audience, has been exceptionally difficult and has been, it's been a long time, a lot longer than
I care to admit.
Olivia Verhulst (27:54.521)
Yeah, there's two things coming up for me there as you're describing that. I mean, human beings are inherently adaptable and resilient. And so this idea of transferable skill sets and just transferable traits across different categories of life absolutely exists. And with that said, sometimes there can be this difficulty transitioning.
from one chapter to the next. And so what's happening a lot, for instance, in the therapy room is we are identifying our needs and identifying that our needs right now in our relationship, our professional development, our physical needs, our emotional needs, whatever it might be, they might be different than they were last season. So maybe that's something that we can also encourage listeners to do today is,
Adrienne (28:21.37)
Hmm.
Adrienne (28:42.783)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (28:48.005)
what are my needs in these current identities and in these current seasons of life that I'm in right now because they might be different than the practices that you have going to meet the needs that you had five months ago.
Adrienne (29:03.774)
Yeah. And it's so odd too, because there, as you're talking, I'm thinking about myself, of course. But, you know, I was, I was happy in a lot of ways, I was dissatisfied in a lot of ways in corporate, but I was happy in a lot of ways in corporate because there was that, that knowing, that stability, that every two weeks, you know, paycheck, the knowing that
I had great relationships and could figure anything out really within that environment. And so it's like those were, you know, happy times. I liked how I, you know, I think I liked my age that I was at. I liked the way that I physically looked, how I dressed, the whole hustle and bustle of it all. And that's not to say that I don't love where I am right now.
but it's different. And I look back on that and I say, gosh, like I wish that I could have some of those things that I had then now, but I don't think that I can because I am a completely different person.
Olivia Verhulst (30:16.529)
Yeah. And it sounds like, I mean, it sounds like you're saying, please correct me if I'm wrong, that in the past, you kind of familiarize yourself with that corporate territory. And this, whatever season you might be in is a little bit more of unchartered territory. Okay. And so obviously human beings, we crave certainty, we like to know, and it is inevitable that uncertainty is a fact of life. So those two things are in competition
Adrienne (30:31.202)
Totally, yes.
Adrienne (30:42.24)
Yes.
Yes.
Olivia Verhulst (30:46.881)
Sure, that's hard for all of us. Yes, there are so many ways we could talk about expanding our tolerance for uncertainty. But in terms of knowing, what I like to go to personally is I may not know this territory, but I know myself. And so while I may not be able to trust X, Y, and Z external things yet, because I don't know about them yet, I can trust my future self to figure out whatever unknown is coming.
Adrienne (31:04.494)
Hmm.
Olivia Verhulst (31:16.265)
So refer back to the self and what you do know about yourself during times of uncertainty. That is one tool.
Adrienne (31:19.85)
Mm.
Adrienne (31:24.666)
The message in the podcast is go within, right? Like everything exists on the inside. It's funny, I had a conversation yesterday with a really interesting woman that does investments and she invests in other women and she told the story and we'll hear it, it'll come out on the podcast episode soon. But she talks about how she worked at Google and she was in a room with...
all men that were talking about investments and venture capital. And she didn't know what the heck they were talking about, even though she was in the same room with them. And so she said to herself, I'm a lifelong learner. I know how to figure these things out. Let me go investigate what the heck they're talking about. And she got, yeah, she got so like going from not knowing, she didn't even know the words venture capital. So she went from that
Olivia Verhulst (32:07.337)
There you go.
Olivia Verhulst (32:15.059)
Yeah.
Adrienne (32:16.75)
to now writing checks for women's businesses that are in the $500,000 range, I mean, in a pretty short amount of time, is like mind blowing. And that also is encouraging too, right? She didn't know, but she knew herself.
Olivia Verhulst (32:37.862)
I really love that. First of all, I can't wait to listen to that episode. Her story sounds really wonderful and I can't wait to learn from her. And yes, that's exactly what I was getting at. What a great example. What a nice topic. I also- Go ahead.
Adrienne (32:50.75)
Yeah, it's a perfect example and it happened yesterday. So yeah, so. Oh, go ahead. No, you go ahead.
Olivia Verhulst (32:59.625)
Well, I was just thinking and I recognize that, you know, I'm in the privilege of being in the mental health space, which tends to be circles that are more empathic and understanding. And so not every space might be conducive to this, but I do believe that sometimes the smartest person in the room is the one that says, I don't know, I'm gonna have to get back to you on that.
Adrienne (33:24.031)
Yeah.
Olivia Verhulst (33:24.925)
I mean, it's inevitable. There's gonna be so many things that we don't know it. We're not expected to know everything that's ridiculous And so this idea of trusting our resilience and adaptability and our ability to learn Yeah, I don't know but I'm gonna figure this out and get back to you. It is okay not to know let's normalize the crap out of this because another fact of life, but
Adrienne (33:35.35)
Hmm
Adrienne (33:43.755)
Yes.
Let's normalize that. That brings up for me something that happened in corporate. When I first started at a particular company, I said on a call, I was new at that company and I said, there's something on this list. It's these letters. I don't know what that is. Let's discuss that. It was a fine conversation. As soon as the conversation was over, I got a call from my
that said that he heard that I said that I didn't know about something and to never, never admit that I do not know something, that I need to find it out beforehand, but never admit that I don't know something. And it really shook the ground that I was on because I'm very inquisitive. I'm a lifelong learner. I never have any trouble saying that, hey, can you explain that
quite understand it because I know that I'm not the only one. So, uh, but that really, you know, got my back up and made me fearful of admitting that I don't know in that, in that environment.
Olivia Verhulst (34:47.209)
Thank you.
Olivia Verhulst (35:01.961)
How could it not? And I'm glad then I did preface that with not every environment will be conducive to that, but which is sad, which is unfortunate. We really wanna be able to lead with our humanity in places of our employment, but sometimes it doesn't feel the safest to do that, which is a whole other conversation. And I will say...
There are different ways to say I don't know, right? I wanna give the quality answer that your question deserves. And so I'm gonna get back to you on that tomorrow or whatever version of that is, you know?
Adrienne (35:32.158)
Yes, I like that. That's so good and so helpful. And of course, being new somewhere and not understanding the culture and the environment, it's something that I think as we navigate through life, we do need to understand not only ourselves, but also the context that we're operating within so that we can choose those words that are going to sort of work in that situation.
Olivia Verhulst (36:00.661)
Absolutely.
Adrienne (36:01.618)
Yeah. So I let, oh my gosh, Olivia, I could talk to you forever. I think there's so many things. And I think that are, you know, the sugarcoated audience is going to be so interested to just, you know, hear more from you. And I'm so glad that you are out there, you know, talking about this so that people can, you know, see you in different segments on TV and all of that. But if they wanted to get in touch with you, how can they go about doing so?
Olivia Verhulst (36:27.369)
That's a great question. I am on psychology today under Olivia Verhulst. I also have a LinkedIn page I'm quite active on. And I also have for more social inquiries, I have a Instagram called the inner work with Olivia. So those are a few ways. And I'm also at this wonderful thriving diverse practice called Let's Talk Psychological Wellness in New York City. And I work for your friend, Natalie.
Adrienne (36:43.383)
love it.
Olivia Verhulst (36:55.605)
who is just the epitome of what a great leader is. And so we have a team of 20 plus therapists there, all qualified and certified in different areas. And so that is also the group practice I'm at. Let's talk psychological wellness.
Adrienne (37:09.354)
Thank you so much for also mentioning that because Dr. Natalie Kildare is just a wonderful therapist and entrepreneur. And she's somebody that I met when we both went through the golden and sex 10,000 businesses program together. And we were sort of car mates. We used to drive in and out of the, um, to the class together. And I really got to know her and, and of course love her.
So thank you so much for mentioning that because she truly is such a wonderful person that is also in that same realm practicing, helping others with their mental wellness and also trying to do it for herself and building a business. It's a lot. It's really a lot.
Olivia Verhulst (37:56.925)
truly to know her is to love her. She's someone I deeply respect. And so yeah, those are some of the places I'm on. And I wanted to say again, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. This is a really wonderful opportunity, Adrienne. So thank you.
Adrienne (38:11.278)
Aw, thank you. It is my pleasure. You are just incredible. I'm so happy to be in company with you and I can't wait to see you everywhere and just continue our amazing conversations.
Olivia Verhulst (38:23.793)
Thanks, Adrienne. Take care for now.
Adrienne (38:25.954)
Bye bye.
