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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
Coach Mills (00:00.696)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new Clearcombs episode today. We're gonna talk about Season 9, which is the biggest patch that we've ever seen in Marvel Rivals. And we're joined by two special guests first off, educator, content creator, and probably the only guy that hates supports more than Captain Coach does, FullmetalLamps. What's up bro? How you doing?
CaptainCoach (00:18.577)
Yeah
FullMetalLamps (00:22.317)
Nice to meet y'all. I'm I'm full Metal Lamps. I also go by Coach Joseph. I stream Marvel Rivals f frequently and I'm r former rank one penny, current rank one Angela, that's a lie. And yeah, I'm just excited to get that started.
Coach Mills (00:37.934)
Let's go, let's go. And also for our second special guest, the number one crash out punisher that I've ever seen. Some insane clips though. Streamer, content creator, Supress, how you doing bro?
CaptainCoach (00:38.808)
Hell yeah, man.
SUPPRESS (00:51.739)
Doing amazing dude. I'm suppressed, as I'm sure you know. And I've been grinding this game since the alpha dude, but now now it's finally time. Now I have the computer. I have the monitor. It's time to take over.
Coach Mills (01:05.102)
And and yeah y'all joined joining us for a special episode cuz like like I said season 9 Everyone was keeping it under wraps and you know, they were they revealed a ton including an entirely new team up system Before we even get into the patch itself. I want to go around the room and just say what are y'all's initial thoughts about? Everything that we got in season 9. Let's start with you suppress. What do you how do you feel about just first first impressions?
CaptainCoach (01:06.02)
Let's go.
SUPPRESS (01:35.685)
Honestly, bro, I like skimmed through it a bit before I like took a nap. And from what I saw, it looked unbelievable. Like Widowmaker looks like she went from like F tier to like she might honestly be like at least A tier. She could be S tier. I don't know what they're thinking. They gave her like the Barret fifty cal or something. Just unlimited everything. And then the Punisher team up. I mean, from what I've seen, like unlimited ammo. Doesn't matter. I'm not sure how you get it even, but
Coach Mills (01:51.947)
You
SUPPRESS (02:01.902)
Whatever way I am gonna get that unlimited ammo, that's not gonna be balanced, huh? And those two things alone, that's all I really need to know, dude. That's gonna be that's gonna be messed up for everyone else who's gotta deal with that. It's gonna have to be banned.
Coach Mills (02:14.932)
What about you? What about you, Lamps? How do you, what's your first impressions?
FullMetalLamps (02:18.433)
Yeah, I mean, first thought is like next season's gonna be hell ranking up. But
Coach Mills (02:22.926)
Yeah, yeah, the wild fucking west right yeah
CaptainCoach (02:23.515)
The duality of Rivalous players from one to the other. I'm gonna abuse this broken shit to, this is gonna suck.
FullMetalLamps (02:25.507)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:33.045)
Yeah, I mean it's just like I don't I don't even know what to think about the meta next season. How like how am I supposed to coach anybody on that? Right? Like I don't know where to get started, but I I'm almost excited. You know, it's like it it's kinda like season zero where it's like a new a new beginning.
Coach Mills (02:39.566)
Good point.
CaptainCoach (02:40.207)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (02:47.957)
Absolutely. This is going to be the wild, wild West, man. We're going to get that excitement of discovery, feel like. Like you said, back in season zero, when we're all kind of just learning the new stuff, all the new team ups that all these heroes are getting. then really, to me, what I'm excited about Mills is the changes to the core fundamentals of the game, mainly with the regenerative health, giving brawl type heroes and side flank diver type heroes.
Coach Mills (02:49.794)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:16.205)
a lot more freedom to do it. They want less reliance on healers. And in turn, that's gonna take pressure off, not just the healers, not having to heal as many people like the Hulk who's taking too much damage. But those shield tanks and other heroes like Punisher and other front-to-back type heroes are probably gonna be able to receive more attention from those healers. So I think increasing the self-sufficiency of everybody is going to be an absolute win for the game.
I think it's gonna be crazy, it's gonna be in balance, it's gonna be honestly a lot of fun, a lot of content. I'm super excited for it, even if maybe a little shaky at first.
Coach Mills (03:47.113)
Right.
Coach Mills (03:53.486)
Yeah, I mean something that we've talked about a lot we've debated about power creep a lot on this on this channel And I think power creep like that's kind of in a way what they did They did it in an interesting way where everyone gets more abilities, but it that's what it is It's like everyone just gets more Everyone that had you know, everyone's gonna get an extra cooldown or more shit to do. There's more things that are going on So I think it creates like a really interesting gameplay loop
for some characters and we'll see how the sustain stacks up, but I'm definitely extremely excited going forward.
CaptainCoach (04:29.669)
It seems like less of a focus on swapping. Now it seems like individual heroes. I hear an echo.
SUPPRESS (04:30.148)
Less of a focus on
Coach Mills (04:35.916)
Yeah, yeah. I think I'm hearing an echo from you. there you go. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (04:38.575)
Yep, I think I got it. think there's a lot of more individual freedom now with a specific hero. So you'll be able to kind of lock in and play what you want, I feel like a bit more, because it seems like they're giving everybody different tools they can use at different times based off the matchup rather than what the game kind of encourages you right now to do, which is just swap. Because that's a lot of what I think the higher ranks are especially is just swapping to Groot, Emma, Triple Healer, right? Or...
whatever, Rocket Punny, or I mean, I'm sure you guys can think of some more, but are we excited about the diversity that this is gonna bring, or do we think it's gonna kinda break the game and there's just gonna be even more overpowered stuff now, do we think?
FullMetalLamps (05:18.739)
I guess I'll go first here. yeah, my my first thought is like what how do you even start with a ban phase for these characters? 'Cause that it really is it's kinda like you just have to be selfish and ban whatever you want to ban out. And so if I'm a tank player, I don't want to see Wolverine for the next seventeen years, but then some support players gonna be like, well they have a you know a diving daredevil with three different team ups. Well like how am I supposed deal with that? And it I'm I'm willing to give it a try.
But it might just r like change the game in a bad way for a long time. I'm not sure. That's like a pessimistic view.
CaptainCoach (05:54.076)
I do kind of agree with you that you're going to probably want to ban your individual counters more, at least at the start, just because everyone's going to be wanting to limit test on their heroes. Obviously, suppress Punisher getting infinite ammo. And I know Coach Mills is probably itching to talk about Thor right now. So do you think that giving that level of power to a hero, does he get the infinite ammo every game or is it only when he has rocket?
Coach Mills (06:12.009)
yeah, it's gonna be a good season.
Coach Mills (06:25.208)
So it's infinite ammo every game. You can do it without ROK, you don't even need the team up. It's just an ability you get to have.
CaptainCoach (06:31.567)
So is that just like, you're just gonna spec into that every game and only go for that one? Is there every time where you're not going to?
Coach Mills (06:36.682)
Well, it's it will that it's a it's a multi like the problem is every character is broken like like the everyone has multiple really strong things that you can do so like Maybe if it's I don't even know what is what is his second team up? It's with daredevil, right? I believe it's with their double and it has like it has like piercing bullets. I believe Which is also really strong too is what it looks like like like it just feels like you get you just get more shit like every character is just straight-up stronger than they were before like
SUPPRESS (06:37.631)
If the if it's a bold mic.
FullMetalLamps (06:55.029)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (07:06.862)
Team up, no team up, in any comp they're just stronger. And then there's gonna be some cases where the team up is extremely busted. That full auto team up feels like it's gonna be fucking insane.
SUPPRESS (07:20.088)
Could get it. I didn't like look too into it, but you could get it without anybody every game. What are the devs thinking, dude? I mean, I'm happy about this, but no one else is gonna be happy. That is unacceptable, dude. I was talking about the hundred-round drum, but you have unlimited ammo on the cooldown. Like that was like unbelievable that they thought that was okay and they're bringing it back. I mean, all right.
Coach Mills (07:27.406)
my god.
Coach Mills (07:41.132)
Yeah, you don't even need Rocket. Like, you don't need him to do it. Like, you don't need him at all.
SUPPRESS (07:45.484)
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. But I'm down with it. Hey, thank you, go on.
CaptainCoach (07:51.067)
Fuck yeah, dude
Coach Mills (07:52.801)
Okay, um, okay, uh, Supress, do you mind turning your mic down just a tidy, tidy bit? I can turn it down in post, but it's like really loud. Um, see if you see if you can. No worries if you can. I'll deal. But, um, but yeah.
SUPPRESS (08:02.766)
Let me try here.
FullMetalLamps (08:10.819)
Yeah, I I tried turning him down individually but I don't think it works on the
Coach Mills (08:14.198)
It won't let you. It should let you in Riverside, but I guess it does not. It's just trolling me.
FullMetalLamps (08:18.947)
Yeah, I like right clicking on his name. yeah. A lot better.
SUPPRESS (08:20.292)
That about it?
Coach Mills (08:22.19)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sounds great, sounds great. Okay, so we're gonna go really hard into the team ups and talk about all of them in a second, but before we even get to the patch notes of the team ups, let's talk about Jubilee. First impressions, if y'all took a look at her. Lamps, do you have any first impressions on Jubilee as the newest addition to the supporting cast?
CaptainCoach (08:23.035)
Yeah,
FullMetalLamps (08:43.541)
Yeah, so I I had this reaction on stream and my first thought was it's gonna be a similar her her introduction to the game is gonna be similar to White Fox in the sense that because her ult is an ult where you have to actually be active and walk forward, a lot of support players are not gonna do that and they're gonna call the character weak. And so they're gonna gigabuff support like Jubilee and then make it so that she has all these different abilities and team ups and whatever and then that's when she'll be good even though she was already good enough with her ult. Yeah.
On release.
CaptainCoach (09:15.547)
That seems like it happens a lot in this game, to be honest.
Coach Mills (09:15.864)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we had that big, we had a conversation, Captain Coach and I on last patch where it's like some characters, they come out and people are, they get as good as they're going to get on that character quickly. So like Cyclops is an example where like within a week, hitscan players are like, they've already figured the character out, right? But like Support Pool as an example is one that wasn't the case. And I think White Fox is also a character that like wasn't the case for a lot of supports where it wasn't like intuitive to like,
FullMetalLamps (09:19.521)
Yeah, all like all the time, all the time.
Coach Mills (09:48.864)
And maybe that's because they are so used to the other supports and the power they bring, like just AFKing at the neutral. But like that learning curve is hard. Maybe they're better equipped for it because White Fox like kind of introduced some of these other concepts to them. But I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
FullMetalLamps (10:03.98)
Mm.
CaptainCoach (10:07.547)
She honestly just looks like a Luna but more AOE focused rather than projectile focus. I think she looks pretty straightforward and simple. Suppress your nod in your head. What do you think?
SUPPRESS (10:18.01)
Yeah, I mean Luna with the switch, you know, I guess everybody's just getting the pack a punch. Like they're giving her everything. I mean, I'm down with it, I guess. As long as I keep the ammo. I don't know. I'm honestly not sure what Bucky's getting, but if he gets the ammo too.
Coach Mills (10:31.746)
No, he gets, so he has the slam with Cap, like he could slam to a teammate. He has that all the time, regardless of if Cap is there or not. That's one of the two.
SUPPRESS (10:37.496)
He gets to do that all the time? my god, bro. Thank you, Guang. They're really blessing me this season, dude. This is like a dream come true. Every game, Captain America team up, people will come to know, dude. I'm loving the look of this season for me personally on DPS.
CaptainCoach (10:40.111)
He,
Coach Mills (10:46.488)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (10:55.227)
Yeah, think Bucky also gets one where he kind of extends his bionic arm and it flicks people back. He gets like a knockback. I feel like you'll probably be able to combo your shots and hook out of it, would imagine, if you can aim it right.
Coach Mills (10:59.223)
yeah, it's a pushback. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Create some more separation too. So the one thing about Jubilee that I don't quite know is because she seems kind of like a die victim apart from one thing. Because I played against her a little bit. I played a little bit of the play test and she doesn't really have great CC abilities and comparatively to the other supports that exist. Mostly her blind is what gives her this ability to outplay characters.
SUPPRESS (11:07.064)
Yeah, that sounds insane. I mean I'm excited for that, for sure.
FullMetalLamps (11:19.659)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (11:34.658)
Like her ability to cause visual clutter and like, you not like literally not being able to see. I don't even know how I feel about an effect like that in the game. Like the ability to just be, I mean, we see it kind of with cloak and dagger like right now, but like Jubilee's thing, like she's flash banging you like.
FullMetalLamps (11:34.731)
Mm.
FullMetalLamps (11:53.47)
Mm.
CaptainCoach (11:53.723)
Can you explain exactly how it works? Because I have not seen the...
Coach Mills (11:55.82)
Well, that's the thing. Like, I know that the effect there's an effect. I don't even know how it works. Like, like, I don't even know what it feels like to be hit by it.
CaptainCoach (12:03.042)
You played against her right on the...
FullMetalLamps (12:03.447)
really?
Coach Mills (12:05.65)
Yeah, but like I was playing against like people that weren't really using their cooldowns properly, most likely. So it wasn't like a great representative of it, but like just the whole idea of like value in the form of you can't see. How do you feel about that?
CaptainCoach (12:10.297)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (12:10.603)
FullMetalLamps (12:25.131)
Yeah, I guess I'll go. again, I haven't seen how the blind works, I just know there is a blinding effect. I th the thing about utility in this game is there there's just so much of it that they're always making up new types of utility, right? There is a like for one C C there's seven different side effects of the same stun. And this is kinda like no different from another type of blind, like Daredevil has a blind, Bundesher has a blind with the team up. And so
It's just gonna be another thing that they will do, 'cause they don't wanna repeat ideas, but they wanna make it unique in some way. And it's more I think it's just kinda something you have to accept is going to happen when you play a game like this that's dropping characters every every month.
Coach Mills (13:12.162)
I guess we're gonna eventually run into like the meta where you triple blinded or some shit. I don't know. Like you can't see the fucking game.
FullMetalLamps (13:17.505)
Yeah, like your computer's just gonna blow up.
CaptainCoach (13:19.269)
She's, would you say, would you say she's one of the first hero releases or at least one recently where they kind of overlapped some things and she's, I've personally, from what I've seen, she looks pretty simple. I think she's a simple release that'll be an entry level character. It's just my first impressions. I think she'll be popular in the skin department because of her aesthetic, her style, know, the type of hero she is. Like I think they're,
She's gonna be like, maybe like Luna Light is kind of where I feel like she's gonna kind of fall as a hero. I think she'll probably always be one of those characters that's kind of strong, just easy to land abilities. Nothing looked too hard to hit on her. Big AOE circle, all like people were saying she wasn't gonna get that and now she has, you have one that knocks people back, you see their health bars going up. I think she's gonna be a pretty straightforward priest.
FullMetalLamps (14:03.127)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (14:12.661)
tame release, which honestly considering all the other changes coming in the game, I don't think is necessarily the worst thing, because you're just going to be encouraging more people to play a consistent, reliable healer while all this chaos is going on, man.
Coach Mills (14:19.982)
Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. This is not like dino season at the same time that we get all this stuff going, you know, some crazy shit.
CaptainCoach (14:27.009)
No, no, I don't think she's too crazy. I mean, there might be something I miss. I saw she put up debuffs and stuff, but it's been so crazy today. Like there's been so much happening. I haven't even had a chance to look exactly at what her abilities do. So.
FullMetalLamps (14:41.995)
Yeah, when I saw the trailer out, I I think it's okay for ha for her to have a a simple kit. But again, that goes back to my point like with White Fox. Because her kit is so s quote unquote simple, people will probably call her weak on release and then f like force netties to buff her cause committee backlash or or whatever. Yeah, like it that's the first thought I had when I saw her ult, you know. Like it's just the support actually has to press W instead of just sit back.
Coach Mills (15:00.75)
Hey.
CaptainCoach (15:02.384)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (15:09.711)
Well, I know we'll get to the balance changes and maybe suppress you as someone who probably just like shreds through this on your damage heroes. White Fox alt getting a buff, but her overall healing is actually, feel like White Fox is probably getting one of the few heroes that's seeming to get a lot of nerfs along with Cyclops. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (15:29.882)
I'm down with that. I'm down with that. But honestly, yeah, I don't mean to cut you off, but wow, like just everything that's coming for like the changes they're doing, I don't think people realize like how insane the stuff that's coming is like is about to be. Like having unlimited ammo every game without needing somebody like you have to ban that character. If they ever let Punisher get through, like you've lost your mind.
Coach Mills (15:33.026)
Yeah
SUPPRESS (15:56.207)
And like all these other characters, the abilities seem absurd, like for every character it's about.
CaptainCoach (16:00.793)
Now, do you see a world where they leave characters like Punisher who probably have a bit of a higher skill ceiling, you know, having to land your shots? Do you think there's a world where they leave something like infinite ammo in, just nerf his damage? Cause they did nerf his damage, I believe a little bit to compensate. So, but you get it back. You get it back.
Coach Mills (16:01.507)
Yeah
Coach Mills (16:14.678)
a little bit. did a, I mean, it's, it's one per one, one, one day. You get it back if you have the daredevil team up. So, so if you, if you do the rocket team up, you, you're, you're down to damage, but if you do the daredevil team up, you're back to just the normal amount of damage.
SUPPRESS (16:15.108)
Yeah.
One? They got him with one damage?
CaptainCoach (16:26.273)
Right. So they're, they... Yeah.
SUPPRESS (16:33.986)
Yeah, you're down a damage but you're up one million bullets. Like what the fuck, yo? I mean I'm down with it though. Heh. This is my season. I'm excited. I'm really excited. Wow.
Coach Mills (16:36.874)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (16:37.377)
Hahahaha
FullMetalLamps (16:37.536)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (16:45.134)
And so I'm gonna transition us into the patch notes and we're gonna take a look because the thing I wanna talk about first is like, what they did, I don't know, can y'all see this? Is this looking clear? So what they did is they nerfed ultimates across the board, ultimate charge rate across the board. And you can see the damage to energy conversion here. So Vanguard's the duelist, they're gonna get 15 % less ultimate from their damage.
SUPPRESS (16:55.598)
Yeah, I could see, I could see here.
Coach Mills (17:13.588)
and strategists are gonna get 15 % less from their healing and actually 20 % less from their damage. And so the reason they did this change is they know that because they're giving more abilities to every single fucking character, ultimates would just be on way quicker, because there's just more shit that everyone could do, right? Like Punisher just having random full auto means that he's gonna build ultimate stupid quick. So in order to kind of compensate a little bit,
FullMetalLamps (17:37.528)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (17:38.702)
Yeah, yo
Coach Mills (17:41.986)
They did this to every character.
SUPPRESS (17:43.93)
Does this mean the DPS Deadpool is insanely overpowered now too? I think all my characters have become unacceptably broken.
Coach Mills (17:48.077)
He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,
CaptainCoach (17:52.891)
you
SUPPRESS (17:58.639)
Wow. I'm loving the sound of all this. I'm loving it.
Coach Mills (18:03.156)
Heheheheh! Okay! Yeah,
FullMetalLamps (18:03.413)
my god.
CaptainCoach (18:03.643)
I think the major takeaway from this is that they said because of the new increased crazier pace of the game that this is more or less going to offset the like the uptick in alts that you're gonna get to where it's gonna feel about the same. But I think the main thing to look at here is the fact that they're focusing more on nerfing the damage to energy conversion rate for the
strategist damage, I think, because they nerfed, it seemed as though they actually nerfed their overall healing. And I think that that's going to bring them more in line to about equal, because it looks like strategists, there is like a global damage nerf from losing the team ups, but I think it's probably gonna be made, or sorry, losing the anchor bonuses. But as you'll see, it's gonna be made up for in the team ups tour. Again, this is probably not going to, this is pretty much them just offsetting the changes that we're all about to look at here.
Coach Mills (18:37.537)
a little bit more.
Coach Mills (19:02.614)
Right, right. I did wanna, so I'll throw out an idea and then I wanna pitch it to you Fullmetal before we continue. So in my opinion, when we add another layer of abilities to every single character and then you kind of weaken a little bit the ultimates, even though it's gonna be similar because you're gonna have more abilities that can build you ult charge, I feel like this creates...
less power or less importance in ultimate use and like more importance and like getting value out of every single ability because you have more of them. There's more windows to fuck up. And if you do fuck them up, you're going to be way behind on ult charge comparatively to other people. Like you need to get value out of every single ult. You need to, you know, create some sort of ult charger or some sort of value. What do think about that?
CaptainCoach (19:48.571)
That's a really good point.
FullMetalLamps (19:50.123)
Yeah, I I think I would agree initially that because ults are gonna take be harder to build in the first place, it's gonna cause a a lot more focus on the neutral, or at least that's what it should do in theory. But then the issue is because there's more abilities, that means you just do more things more often, which might just like offset it back to where you just get your ult back anyway. And the other other concern is because the ult is so
valuable, I think, for the majority of the player base, they're just gonna cling onto the ult and like hyper focus on making sure that it's like perfect ult instead of a bad ult because they're afraid to fight the neutral with their other abilities.
Coach Mills (20:33.538)
Hmm interesting
CaptainCoach (20:34.275)
Yeah, I agree with that to an extent, but don't you think that with the added number of abilities and more of a focus on the neutral, it's going to hopefully increase the skill ceiling so that the average player, yeah, even if you choose to play that way, you're gonna be playing against... I feel like giving more freedom to people and their heroes is going to raise the bar, so to speak.
FullMetalLamps (20:55.501)
See, I would agree with that if every time I coach somebody and I watch their va review or I just look at a game, half the time people just don't use the abilities on their characters. Right. I'll see it I'll see an Invis that doesn't use her self shield. I'll see a a Spider Man that only looks for pulls and not any other part of his kit, you know? A a rocket that forgets to put down the res beacon, even though that's like the main reason you put it that right. It's just and it it's not like a one off occurrence, it's like
Coach Mills (21:05.797)
Okay.
SUPPRESS (21:18.104)
Wow. Painful. That's painful.
Coach Mills (21:19.982)
Right. yeah. Well, guess like, yeah, I don't know how to put it. like, just like as an example or the one like an example that I thought of is like, let's say Bucky, you know how Bucky always gets the cap team up, right? That's like, that's like another mobility that he gets that further strengthens his neutral ability. So like when it comes to kiting,
CaptainCoach (21:21.808)
Well.
FullMetalLamps (21:24.737)
I see this trend for a lot of ranks and a lot of players.
Coach Mills (21:47.758)
or it comes to combating an ultimate, he has one more tool. Now will that tool matter? Probably not in the grand scheme of things. But would every character has one more tool to make a difference in the neutral fight? Yeah, and customization too, that's true. And there'll also be, supports will have maybe tools. One is like, Deadpool has a Gambit team where he fucking jumps. He jumps, he can slam on someone, but he can also use it as like, he just has another movement tool.
CaptainCoach (21:59.384)
and customization to go for different tools.
Coach Mills (22:16.162)
That he can just fucking, he can yeet out like... Yeah, hehehehe
SUPPRESS (22:16.186)
Let's go, dude. I'm loving this season. Give it all to everybody, dude. Everybody's got every ability. They all all the characters became like 20% harder. And I'm down with that.
CaptainCoach (22:20.975)
Ha ha ha!
CaptainCoach (22:28.087)
Exactly. So that's exactly my argument is that, yeah, like Lamp says, there's players who I'm guessing are probably in a pretty high rank, some of them, because I've seen the same thing with support players, just straight up not using abilities. Will you be able to still play like that now?
Coach Mills (22:28.728)
That is true.
Coach Mills (22:39.502)
A depressingly high rank, yeah.
Coach Mills (22:47.67)
I feel like they're gonna get punished by people that use ability as well.
SUPPRESS (22:49.978)
I hope not. I hope they're absolutely sent out of the gulag bro and they have to relearn everything.
CaptainCoach (22:53.621)
hahahahah
Coach Mills (22:53.932)
Like, like, like, like, like, here's the thing, someone's, some rocket's gonna use a bad rocket ult, and suppress is just gonna fucking full auto ammo that shit instantly in two seconds, and they, they lost, they lost the game. They, they, they, they lost the game because they met, they fucked up their timing. You know, like, like, like, if we go to Angela's team ups, like, I forgot who she has it with, but she has to like two ghost pushes, like push, like, like,
SUPPRESS (23:03.258)
Yeah, it's probably evaporated. I mean it's just so dumb. Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (23:08.587)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (23:16.013)
That I don't think of his brain dead.
Coach Mills (23:18.122)
They're gonna pop like two ultimates try to run it all down You're gonna push back both their tanks and then you're just gonna like you just full kited their ult and like they did fucking nothing like like that's what kind of what I'm talking about is like there's ways to just like if They're really trying to play for this this ult to value they it's not gonna It's not gonna win the game like it did before at least it shouldn't on paper
CaptainCoach (23:38.416)
Yeah, like the way I kind of view it is more tools in the game is probably going to benefit the heroes who maybe already have less control over the outcome of a game because now they have more options. Cause like a support, they're just always useful. Supports in this game are always going to be good. You have one on your team, they're going to provide an insane amount of sustain and then like an immune to death ultimate. Not everybody has the same level of guaranteed value as that. think this now kind of...
FullMetalLamps (23:38.573)
Yeah, that's fair.
CaptainCoach (24:05.561)
I mean, who knows? Maybe supports will be even more busted and the game will be in a worse spot. It's entirely possible. But from what I've seen from the notes and we'll get into it... Yeah. Just to kind of summarize what we're about to go over here, end with the regenerative shields. I think it's kind of pulling power a little bit away from supports and giving it back to the people. Giving it back to everybody else. So I'm really excited for this. Mills, did you want to...
Coach Mills (24:09.038)
Yeah, Matt Matt just gotta yeah, we'll talk about Matt just later, but yeah
Coach Mills (24:31.224)
So, so, so I'll tell, so for those of y'all who are listening at home, I want to talk about regenerator shields, because this is a new thing that they're adding in for those of you who don't know what this does. So we have, we have, we've talked about it a lot. So we talked about the concept of when you're out of the fight, when you're not taking damage, you get health gain. Like the, the whole idea behind this is that supports don't have to coddle you as much. And then like you get more agency.
CaptainCoach (24:41.849)
which we've talked about extensively on this podcast.
Coach Mills (25:01.166)
Now they didn't give this to every single character, but what they did instead of just giving you life gain is they gave you what is regenerative shields, which is certain characters have a percentage of their HP that they take damage if they're out of the fight for a certain amount of time, they're going to start gaining shields over top. think of it like Halo shields. That's the best way to describe it. That's like...
SUPPRESS (25:21.146)
This game is getting fucking insane dude like this game is getting insane. It's like Fortnite siphon like twenty abilities, like I'm down with it. People are gonna go crazy.
Coach Mills (25:31.79)
And the more HP that a character... So the more regenerative shield they have, the faster it recovers. So if you have 300 regenerative shield, it's gonna recover at 60 per second. If you have 150, it'll recover at 30 per second. So I limitedly tested this when I was... Because I did play the play test a little bit and I tested this. Thor with regenerative shields feels fucking unkillable. Because I can dip out of a fight for a little bit.
SUPPRESS (25:56.709)
Wait. Is it like Bucky too? D is it like his E, like all his abilities is out of the shields, or like what how does this work, yo?
Coach Mills (26:03.774)
No, so only specific characters get it. So not every character has it. it's like Angela, Thor, Venom, Thor, like there's a couple there, then there's some DPS that have it, but not every DPS. Only the hyper mobile ones do. like, yeah. Star Lord, I don't know if Deadpool got it. Star Lord did, I don't think Spider-Man got it either. We'll go through all of them. We'll talk about all of them.
CaptainCoach (26:04.161)
It's it's brawl tanks
SUPPRESS (26:07.832)
Okay, thank God. That would have been unacceptable then.
CaptainCoach (26:19.899)
It's a buff to the brawl and dive mostly. Gives them... Starlord.
SUPPRESS (26:21.678)
Ooh, like Star Lord, Deadpool.
SUPPRESS (26:28.964)
Damn, Sarlott'll be deadly then too.
Coach Mills (26:30.638)
Yeah, Star, there's a lot. There's a lot about Star that's kind of broken. But basically, regenerative shields operate in the same way that HP does. So any character that gets regenerative shields, it's a strict buff. Like if they lost 100 HP and they got 100 shields, that's just straight up just strictly better. It's a strictly better thing. Before we move on, Lamps, do you have any thoughts on regenerative shields as a concept?
FullMetalLamps (26:55.383)
Yeah, so I mean I come from Overwatch and they've had blue health, blue shields for the longest time. And they they've always had a hard time balancing that with regular shield and then this concept called armor, yellow shield, yellow HP. And yeah, and my my issue is just having blue shield, blue HP, re like regenerative shields, that's always gonna be a buff. And so that's just gonna be another thing that they have to balance around.
Coach Mills (27:09.996)
Yeah, armor was always dumb,
FullMetalLamps (27:24.001)
Right, like maybe maybe Daredevil, right. I I think he has one fifty regenerate shield. Maybe that's too much and they have to change it to seventy five. But if they change it to seventy five, maybe they have to buff another ability on this kit to make like make up for that because just the healing itself is too strong. It I I'm not sure how it's gonna work out in this game, but again, I mean I'm willing to give it a try and then it's terrible. And then we just kinda fire everybody.
Coach Mills (27:47.63)
I mean
CaptainCoach (27:48.544)
I agree with that, if you'll notice here with some of the heroes, think, yeah, they will have to balance around it, but more so, I think this is the balance. I think this is them trying to make certain heroes less reliant on the healer so they can heal in a more typical sense. Healers are actually, think, to inadvertently benefit from this, because they'll actually have more freedom to do what they want.
and it's really going to reward the good players in particular.
Coach Mills (28:16.59)
And I I I I I played the so I played a lot a lot of venom in the in the playtest I played like three games of venom full metal Because venom has this and I know you play a lot of venom too And I watched a clip specifically of you where you were like trying to set up and you like you try to set up You took damage you got stunned you try to set up you took damage you got stunned and you have to go back to your fucking team Or you just die With venoms new team up that he can have with
SUPPRESS (28:19.086)
Yeah, it it will.
FullMetalLamps (28:25.795)
Mm.
FullMetalLamps (28:34.691)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (28:43.96)
blade where he has tendrils give him life gain like life steal. So he just gains life from his he gets regenerative shield. So if he's out of combat on a setup, he gets to get HP back the combination of those two things together make you exponentially more independent from your team like you can set up completely independent like you could be at one HP get out get your 300 fucking shields back re-engage with tendrils and you could gain HP on that and then have shields over top like
FullMetalLamps (28:47.576)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (28:48.993)
Fuck dude.
FullMetalLamps (29:01.101)
Right.
CaptainCoach (29:08.495)
Get a health pack.
Coach Mills (29:13.92)
It's fucking, it's actually, like maybe it's too broken, but it does mean that you don't have to full kite out, go back to your team all the time. Like you are so much more independent from what you were before, which it makes me excited as like an off-tank player. I can understand how it might be too broken, but I guess it's one of those things. It's like, it be a case-by-case basis.
FullMetalLamps (29:26.039)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (29:38.607)
Yeah, I'm I don't mean to cut you off, but I'm not gonna lie, like I feel like that is another reason, like all the characters getting buffs like that, that's another reason. Like that itself is another like Punisher Bucky buff. Like all these insanely healthy tanks, Venom, Thor, these characters are gonna like the best in the game. If you don't play Punisher, if you don't if Punisher's not banned, you have to play it into these characters or you will never kill them. And then if that is like if that is banned, you have to play Bucky.
CaptainCoach (30:01.499)
That's a point.
SUPPRESS (30:04.812)
Or you have to like play some other DPS character like Phoenix, which probably will be banned. So you'll be forced to play Bucky. And with the team up you get the extra three rounds. So if you could like use that properly, I mean Bucky and Punisher are gonna be probably like the two best characters on DPS.
Coach Mills (30:19.662)
They're gonna be very strong, yeah, 100%.
FullMetalLamps (30:20.927)
Yeah. And and my thought process with those type of buffs where it's you rely on your team less is I don't know how good that is for a a team based game, but then again, this community is so bad at the video game. There's no coordination in the first place. Right. But i if if that does happen, it i I don't I just don't know how that's gonna play out for a majority of the community where it's
Coach Mills (30:35.023)
Hehehehehe
FullMetalLamps (30:49.707)
It might feel like they're more isolated, more individualistic. This fucking guy.
SUPPRESS (30:52.474)
That'll play out well for me, that's for damn sure.
Coach Mills (30:54.57)
No yeah!
CaptainCoach (30:54.627)
I got to, I got to, before we like really dive into it, would you say that maybe that the balancing that this game has had for previous patches, maybe not all of them, but has probably pushed some of the people who value that competitiveness away, like push them away from the game. Kind of like the, what was it? Ship of Theseus where you keep replacing one bit of the player base and eventually it's not the same one anymore. Do you feel like that's happened a little bit? I feel like it has, but.
FullMetalLamps (31:16.93)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (31:22.365)
I I think a large amount of like especially people from Overwatch, right? They don't view this game as very competitive and I kind of agree, I think it's like a a baby game, quote unquote. Because of how a lot of the times they will reduce a character, right? Like they'll make instead of instead of having low key be like complex where you could be attack or, you know, supportive, it's like only a heel dot now, right?
CaptainCoach (31:34.319)
Yeah
FullMetalLamps (31:50.519)
Like those type of balance changes kinda make the game less interesting and less versatile, but also it's just like very heavily top heavy, right? And
Coach Mills (32:00.578)
Wait, would you say this is a step against that? Like a step in the other direction? all these changes? going back to your Loki example, with the team of Loki can fucking mid fight copy a Punisher and then shoot people. Yeah, he can. No, he can.
FullMetalLamps (32:07.522)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (32:12.315)
You got TF- I- I don't think he can shoot! I don't- I don't think he can shoot, he can just pretend to be it. I think it's just a disguise only. I- he does? Okay.
FullMetalLamps (32:13.056)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (32:13.914)
Yo, like what the fuck are they doing, yo?
Coach Mills (32:19.694)
No, I'm pretty sure, no, he can shoot. No, no, you turn, so if you have the team up with Hela, you can legitimately turn into somebody, and then if you die, you go back to Loki. Now you don't have your ults. It's like a copy, but you just get the neutral. Yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (32:20.211)
No, no. He he straight up kills people as the punisher.
SUPPRESS (32:23.842)
Awww
FullMetalLamps (32:27.681)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (32:33.179)
Uh-huh.
FullMetalLamps (32:33.623)
Yeah. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (32:35.652)
You're just a zombie, you come out as a zombie and then you're back again, dude. You have two lives. I mean, every character is insane, yo.
FullMetalLamps (32:39.725)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (32:42.604)
No, but that's kind of what I'm talking about is like that is like, it's very wacky and weird, but it's undoubtedly like a much higher skill ceiling than it was before.
SUPPRESS (32:51.662)
Down with it. I think it's gonna be insane. I think the best I think it's really gonna show who is absolutely terrible. Like, if you are not the best, you are gonna get absolutely embarrassed. Like, if you don't know how to do every ability, every character, like maybe they got even harder than 20%. They have two abilities, dude. Like, even for like the punisher ability, the piercing ability, maybe there's a time where they're playing like some crazy comp and you pull that out, and it's like it's gonna get to a point where if they don't remove all this shit, which they probably won't, and they'll keep like
FullMetalLamps (32:58.539)
What the
CaptainCoach (32:58.885)
Hahaha
SUPPRESS (33:20.418)
working around it. If you could like get good and being like, okay, this time I'm gonna use the piercing against this comp, like and if you could switch it in between the game, like that's insane.
CaptainCoach (33:26.787)
Yes.
Coach Mills (33:27.574)
Yep. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (33:30.307)
I'm so excited for that.
FullMetalLamps (33:30.359)
You can you can switch it.
SUPPRESS (33:32.536)
Yeah, that's absurd.
Coach Mills (33:32.622)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're good. Yeah, in the middle, in the middle of the game. you could even, cause so like, for those of you, for those of you who are listening in for the first time and y'all didn't really kind of see how, how the team ups worked. If you get to choose either team up and it doesn't matter if you have the team up character, you get to use the team up. But if you do have that team up character on your team, you get an even further effect. Um, so like as an example with Loki, he can choose the hella team up and he can just copy any character and plays them.
CaptainCoach (33:37.563)
This is a bluff to one tricks.
SUPPRESS (33:39.534)
Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (34:02.572)
But if he has the Hela team up, or if Hela's on his team, if he dies as that character, he gets to go back to Loki. And so there are other effects like that where it's like you get even more. And so let's say you're in a duo, right? And you're running, okay, I'm gonna run Puny Rocket, and it's a bigger aura and it lasts longer. So you run Puny Rocket, you get the team up, and you're like, fuck, okay, actually, let's swap, you go Daredevil, I'm gonna swap my team up to the Daredevil team up, and now we get to run this powerful team up. And so you can...
You can do that with a lot of character pairs. Like, duo-ing is broken, in my opinion.
SUPPRESS (34:34.052)
Yeah, that is insane. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. This is making the game like three times crazier overall. Like the amount of stuff that's about to happen is gonna be like unbelievable. I'm not gonna lie.
Coach Mills (34:45.261)
Like
FullMetalLamps (34:45.377)
Yeah. one thing I will say though is I I and I welcome this change and I think it is there's a lot more versatility, but I think it also makes it a lot harder for the pro scene, right? Because like
Coach Mills (34:59.721)
No, I saw I Saw I forgot who it was. I think it was spark sheep or someone they tweeted out They were like LAN is in two weeks and they did this change They're playing LAN in in Cali in two weeks and they they had to deal with this bullshit
SUPPRESS (35:00.462)
Bro, it's gonna be insane.
FullMetalLamps (35:05.931)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (35:09.246)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (35:09.541)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
FullMetalLamps (35:15.266)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (35:16.618)
It's a good thing it's legal over there 'cause it's about to be a fucking clown show, dude. What in the world is about they're about to have unlimited ammo, rocket with the team up with more unlimited ammo, like
Coach Mills (35:21.134)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (35:21.175)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (35:27.906)
But doesn't it excite you a little bit full metal? Like I'm actually excited to watch the pro scene. I don't, I normally don't, but I am very interested in what the fuck they're gonna cook up in two weeks. Like, what are they gonna do? Like who would...
CaptainCoach (35:34.063)
I am too.
CaptainCoach (35:39.021)
It's gonna be all dive, I think.
FullMetalLamps (35:41.047)
I agree. Yeah, like it's gonna be interesting to see. I think more people will watch the the pro scene temporarily, but then at a certain point it just kinda gets overwhelming or maybe there's just too much shit going on that it's just it it's just like y the pro players themselves don't even know what to do, and maybe it like lowers the the skill rating quote unquote because there's just so much random shit you don't even know how to actually deal with it.
Coach Mills (35:56.278)
Yeah, baby, baby.
Coach Mills (36:07.022)
you
FullMetalLamps (36:11.123)
and so just anything goes kind of situation. and also for other people, they might see the game as less competitive, or like as competitively serious because it's just kind of well, anything happens, you know, Looney Tunes cartoons.
Coach Mills (36:14.446)
Gotcha. That makes sense.
CaptainCoach (36:19.631)
Well,
Coach Mills (36:25.932)
Right, I mean your ability to adapt is being tested mostly. If you can adapt and you can figure it out, that's what's truly being tested.
CaptainCoach (36:26.019)
Yeah, I think
SUPPRESS (36:34.296)
yeah. I mean the whole game is changing, dude. I'm like the the best players could become terrible. The worst players could become amazing. Like the amount of stuff they're adding, like anyone can do anything.
CaptainCoach (36:45.491)
I think though long-term that won't be so much of an issue as long as they keep in the team ups and keep kind of fine tuning them and improving them and balancing. Yeah, cause now, okay, whatever, infinite Ambo is always going to be in the game, but you know, now you know, you're not going to get that taken away from you. So once you have that skill, you kind of learn it, right? So the, like the pro scene, yeah, it's going to be crazy at first. It's going to be like, you know, the wild West, but I think eventually over long enough period of time.
Coach Mills (36:52.482)
Yeah, that's what they said. Yeah, they're not gonna.
CaptainCoach (37:12.559)
having stuff like that, because they can add team ups. like, man, Punisher is actually really susceptible to dive somehow, whatever, maybe he ends up really bad with these changes. So they give them some kind of like defensive spec he can go now.
SUPPRESS (37:24.972)
And now he has a fifty cal sniper rifle too in his back pocket. I'm down with it, it's next season. It's his third his third ability. Yeah it turned into a mortar launcher and he just starts moving around.
CaptainCoach (37:28.397)
Yeah. And now his turret? What if his turret goes vertical,
FullMetalLamps (37:28.467)
Coach Mills (37:30.094)
Okay, well, okay, all right, let's
CaptainCoach (37:37.371)
Get a little helicopter
FullMetalLamps (37:40.781)
Jesus.
Coach Mills (37:41.953)
Um, all right, let's, let's, let's move through the, this is going to be a while where we got a lot to go through. Let's, let's start going through each character and keep in mind that, you know, we have to think about the team ups in, in, uh, compared to the changes. Like the changes aren't in isolation. Like, um, and so the first one we got to talk about is, Angela, who is going to be losing a hundred, uh, 200 total HP, but then gaining 200 regenerative shields. Which is what we talked about is
CaptainCoach (37:44.419)
stupid. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (37:48.418)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (37:57.686)
Right.
Coach Mills (38:10.082)
just a strict buff, she gets regenerative shield instead. And then so she has a strict buff here. I think regenerative shield is probably gonna help her a lot. Well, you could talk more about that in a second, Lamps. And then she gets two powerful team ups. what's your overall thoughts on Angela going forward here?
FullMetalLamps (38:26.371)
I would argue Angela's probably like top two, maybe top three tanks in the game next season. And I don't necessarily like that because that means like Angela bans are gonna be happening. Yeah. Like I I already get banned at a lot of my games and I can't tell if it's target bands like through trackers or if it's because when people think Angela's like a ban worthy tank. That that's what I'm saying, but they're always like she's a she's a meta band and you gotta ban Angela I like, bruh.
Coach Mills (38:36.014)
You're gonna get banned? You gotta start, yeah.
Coach Mills (38:43.416)
Probably.
CaptainCoach (38:47.801)
Nobody bans Angela. That's a Target ban,
SUPPRESS (38:53.93)
She's a meta ban if you have anyone human playing her, but otherwise like I don't know. Maybe I'll have one yeah.
FullMetalLamps (38:56.296)
yeah.
Coach Mills (38:56.82)
Okay
CaptainCoach (38:57.851)
Maybe on that one map, but that's about it.
Coach Mills (39:02.478)
Cause what we'll see through a lot of this is like most characters got some form of compensation where they get these powerful team ups and they get regenerative shield. So they got some nerfs. Angela is one of the few that didn't get any nerfs. She didn't get any compensary, anything. She just got strictly better. What's the team up that she has with, who was it with? Is it the one that pushes like the two ghosts? Is that the one? Is that what we're talking?
FullMetalLamps (39:12.579)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (39:16.771)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (39:21.113)
Starlord. Starlord.
FullMetalLamps (39:22.231)
Yeah, Star Lord.
SUPPRESS (39:23.268)
THIRE
FullMetalLamps (39:25.759)
No, the two ghosts is Loki. So with the Loki team up, she basically gets a Shadow Clone Jutsu and she just sends a free kidnap in any direction and it just pushes them back. And yeah, it's range.
CaptainCoach (39:36.313)
ranged.
Coach Mills (39:37.423)
That's gonna be insane. I want you to get a triple kill with that shit full metal like yeah
FullMetalLamps (39:41.257)
I I think I could. I could get four kills potentially.
SUPPRESS (39:43.482)
Yeah you could probably get a 6k with that thing, dude.
CaptainCoach (39:45.135)
So I checked it is a separate cool down than your charge. So you'll be able to, if you do it into a wall, you might be able to like chain stun lock them twice, which I think is, that's why they added tenacity.
FullMetalLamps (39:45.836)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (39:51.007)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (39:52.11)
Yep.
SUPPRESS (39:55.103)
Wow. It's like a Dark Souls boss.
Coach Mills (39:55.734)
Yeah, well... Yeah, you can... Yeah...
FullMetalLamps (39:58.125)
Bro. Fucking tenacity.
CaptainCoach (40:00.517)
So that's gonna make sense now if they knew this was coming, right?
FullMetalLamps (40:03.683)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (40:03.714)
I mean apparently they knew this was coming for a long time so before we even keep going So they said that they knew that this chain all these changes were coming for a long time They didn't want to officially talk about them even though they knew That it would probably get people excited to get the heat off their back the criticism off their back because it wasn't ready yet What do y'all think about that? Do you think that was? You know smart to do or what do y'all think cuz I you know some of these patch notes came out We're like what the fuck the devs doing
FullMetalLamps (40:30.913)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (40:31.342)
I mean, I'm down with it dude. It's about to be crazy.
Coach Mills (40:33.644)
They've been cooking the whole time behind the scenes. Like this, this definitely took a ton of work. Like all of this, there's so much.
SUPPRESS (40:35.886)
Hell yeah.
Like a whole new game almost, dude. It's like a a changing genre. It's like Fortnite now or something.
Coach Mills (40:44.686)
It kind of makes me feel like they'll be able to do a lot more during patch note time because they're not working on like this entire thing that you know Yeah, cuz they said they've been working on it for a year So they they've been they've decided to make this change like very soon after the game came out. They were like, yeah With with two hands, yeah
SUPPRESS (40:52.942)
Yeah, yeah. No, I yeah, they probably put all their time into this for like many, many months.
FullMetalLamps (40:58.167)
Yeah, I mean
SUPPRESS (41:00.996)
Yeah, wow.
SUPPRESS (41:06.232)
And they've been adding all these swimsuit skins at the same time. So imagine the time they're gonna have after they're done with all this. Yeah, how imagine the time they're gonna have after, dude.
CaptainCoach (41:09.243)
Hehehehehe
FullMetalLamps (41:16.287)
I I think with it I lost my train thought. But it it's just like how do you mm
You can come back to me. I I lost my trade at that, yeah. But
Coach Mills (41:33.206)
Okay. No, no, no, no worries. No worries. no, I was just saying sandbagging. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. okay. So I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to keep up a reasonable pace on this. So the pot isn't like five hours long. first, cats in America, he, he ends up losing a hundred health total, but he gains 300 health in regenerative shield. So he is down from 700 to 600, but 300 of that is regenerative shield. And this is the thing that
CaptainCoach (41:36.059)
Bro said swimsuit skins, he's just, rep, I started racing.
SUPPRESS (41:37.78)
Angela swimsuit skin, we need that dude. That
FullMetalLamps (41:38.207)
Yeah, I I just lost my mind.
Coach Mills (42:01.102)
I kinda wanna talk about, actually think this is the net buff to Cap. Even though he has less total HP, regenerative shield is so much stronger than normal shields, normal HP in my opinion, especially for a hyper mobile character like Cap, that this is a big deal. Like he can cycle in, take 300 damage, cycle out around the corner, get full healed, cycle back in again, without ever going back to his supports. Like that's...
CaptainCoach (42:22.843)
Yeah, he's going to be higher up time. He might not be able to stay in as long, but I think that's a fair trade off. A little bit less health means you'll have to jump out sooner and start regening sooner. But now he's got that regen, and again, not going to be reliant on healers. This is definitely a buff in most situations. Oh, that's right.
Coach Mills (42:32.898)
Day.
Coach Mills (42:37.376)
And he gets, he hits harder cause he can get the Thor team up. He gets the Thor team up automatically so he can, you know, he can hit harder during that little cycle window.
SUPPRESS (42:40.73)
Hell yeah.
CaptainCoach (42:47.747)
I feel like cap's going to still be the best take.
FullMetalLamps (42:50.465)
Yeah, I I think the the thing is like all these changes are coming with the previous buffs from s you know, all the past eight seasons, right? So Cap has the old charge boost, he ha like Cap's more valuable now 'cause his old literally gives you old faster, right? And they changed how how s how how quickly you get olts nowadays. So like that that alone makes him more valuable. And then, you know, wi with characters like Venom and Angela and Captain America who just live forever, that's gonna be infinitely more valuable than
SUPPRESS (42:50.65)
I mean, yeah, he is gonna be insane.
Coach Mills (43:00.227)
Right.
CaptainCoach (43:02.565)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (43:07.043)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (43:19.787)
someone who just like sits there and just falls over from any amount of, you know, punish or infinite ammo team.
CaptainCoach (43:26.265)
I think Cap is one of the biggest winners, personally.
FullMetalLamps (43:29.143)
Yeah, I agree.
Coach Mills (43:30.714)
He's gonna be sick. Okay, so Deadpool Vanguard. So I actually tested this quite a bit as a chronic Deadpool Vanguard abuser. He's like, I feel like he's the only character I was ever actually good at this game on. Probably because he was broken. But so they made his primary more powerful. They gave it to where now he gives 5 % more damage reduction to his team with his aura and 5 % more damage reduction to himself.
He gets basically no HP change. He loses a little bit, but gains a little bit. But overall, this is gonna allow him to level faster. Now here's the thing about this. Like this is nice, but this is not why the Deadpools are like on crack. They're on crack right now because of the Hella team up. So now, for those of you who don't know, listening in, after you upgrade the pistols or the sword, you can flip to the next page of the Deadpool book.
and upgrade the pistols or the sword a second time to imbue them with hella energy. Yes. Yes. Yes. And the hella pistol fucking slams. Like it does a crazy amount of damage on every character. And the hella swords is very similar to like Phoenix Sparks in the fact that you
SUPPRESS (44:31.482)
WHAT RORE!
CaptainCoach (44:35.503)
Hahaha!
SUPPRESS (44:38.17)
Game no, thank you, Grong. It's my birthday. Every game? Wow.
SUPPRESS (44:50.549)
my god, I'm excited.
Can you get them both or you gotta like decide which one you pick?
Coach Mills (44:57.838)
You can get them both if you have a heli on your team. Yeah, it's... I think you can only get the pistols if you don't. I'm not 100 % sure. I need to take a look at it. Yeah, it's basically packed. That's literally what it is. Pack a bunch of pistols, pack a bunch of swords. That's basically what it is. it turns Deadpool... Like, it gives you different lines to build to actually become really strong.
SUPPRESS (45:02.5)
But you get one if you don't, you could still get one.
SUPPRESS (45:07.93)
That's still absurd. Some some pack a punch pistols.
Coach Mills (45:22.616)
But it also means that like if any of the pools, Vanguard, Support or DPS in overtime situations where you're fully leveled, you are probably 20 to 30 % stronger than you already were. Like you were already maybe Thanos of overtime. Now you are like, I mean, you're just unreal. Yeah, yeah, it's actually insane.
SUPPRESS (45:31.556)
Dude, my god. Wow.
SUPPRESS (45:39.672)
All the stones, you got the stones.
FullMetalLamps (45:40.301)
Thanos times four. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (45:44.474)
Dude, I am so excited for this, dude. Holy.
Coach Mills (45:47.502)
It's like all the pools are like, it's crazy. Hela is a big winner. We'll talk about Hela in a little bit, but she is crazy. They did. It's actually fucking sick.
SUPPRESS (45:55.589)
They needed some love, dude. The pools needed a little bit of love. And they got a lot.
CaptainCoach (46:02.44)
just quick aside like why hella is the team up? Is there some weird lore thing between them two? I never understood
Coach Mills (46:09.295)
SUPPRESS (46:09.908)
i I think it's because honestly I bro I know the lore I think. It's cause Hella's the god of death and I think that he's like in love with the god of death. I think that's what they have a T bum. No, I was playing this Deadpool game and he was like driving around on the ship and he was like, I love the god of death and he was like kissing her. So it might be it might be a little deeper, dude, I'm telling ya.
CaptainCoach (46:18.127)
I thought that was Thanos.
Coach Mills (46:18.574)
what?
CaptainCoach (46:22.139)
Coach Mills (46:28.47)
Mmm, that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, hella has hella somehow has a team up with fucking every character in this game right now. she she's they they yeah hella Hella hella the harlot. Holy. yeah All right. So devil dino. devil dino is going to overall net
CaptainCoach (46:28.686)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (46:32.154)
Alright.
FullMetalLamps (46:36.143)
Actually.
CaptainCoach (46:36.699)
Ha ha ha.
SUPPRESS (46:39.13)
For the streets, wow.
FullMetalLamps (46:43.394)
Ha ha.
SUPPRESS (46:48.418)
I'm down with it. I'm down with it. Hell yeah.
Coach Mills (46:57.334)
Net even on HP, he loses some from the anchor, gains some just normally. But now his critical, hitting him in the head is gonna do 10 % less damage, so now he takes only 60%. And he's also gonna give enemies and allies 5 % less ult charge from healing him or dealing damage to him. So he's less of a battery for his opponents and his team, but he also doesn't die quite as quickly, shooting him in the head is not gonna be as much.
CaptainCoach (47:26.127)
These are pretty much the exact changes I said they should have made to him. Just make him tankier. He's a melee anchor tank. I wanted them to maybe nerf his E, his shield a little bit, but I said that like the headshot they could have reduced and just made him more beefy and like lowered his damage a little bit.
SUPPRESS (47:37.89)
Yeah, give me a little bit more beef.
Coach Mills (47:41.766)
Oh, surprise you'll like this. So his team up with Jeff, can his beam, know, his beam, he can heal people with it now. So he can he's a partially a healer. Oh, oh, yeah, that's the one with Punisher. Oh, yeah, you're gonna like that. Oh, it's Elsa. What's with Elsa? Is it?
SUPPRESS (47:48.077)
On the dinosaur? The dinosaur heals you? Bro, yeah. Dude, I was seeing some other team up where the dinosaur had like some rocket launchers on his on his side and he was walking around, dude.
CaptainCoach (48:01.625)
That was Elsa. I think that was Elsa, yeah. Or Punny, maybe.
SUPPRESS (48:04.579)
Yeah, I mean I'm down with it dude. I'm loving I'm loving all this. And I don't know if that extra ten percent's gonna help him from the extra ten thousand bullets out of the unlimited ammo mini gun.
Coach Mills (48:07.694)
No, it is it is funny, it is fu-
CaptainCoach (48:14.735)
Yeah, I was gonna say this is mostly a buff just because of the punny buff and like all the damage like pretty much he's just gonna have to, I feel like this kind of makes sense though, cause there are a lot of more damage effects that are gonna be added to the game and characters like Dino are gonna experience it more. So if he's not gonna get regenerative health, since he is that melee anchor tank that's going to be in the front lines more feeling the brunt of that assault more, I think a change like this is more compensatory than it is necessarily gonna make him super OP.
Coach Mills (48:43.2)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, go, go on, go on for minute.
FullMetalLamps (48:44.439)
I want yeah, go ahead. so I want to make a quick point. Someone in my chat said if everyone's broken then no one is. I think that quote actually applies for the first time in this game, whereas now everyone is actually broken, whereas in other seasons like quote unquote everyone is broken, but it was just like just four characters were like top heavy and then you ban them out and everything like Yeah. Like before it was Hella, you season zero Hella Hawkeye and then like Black Panther was fucking useless.
Coach Mills (48:55.118)
You're right!
SUPPRESS (49:01.582)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:02.868)
Yeah, yeah, right
SUPPRESS (49:04.908)
Yeah, now it's forty characters are insane.
CaptainCoach (49:08.123)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:08.366)
Well.
Coach Mills (49:13.88)
Hehehe
FullMetalLamps (49:14.165)
And then he was useless for the next seven seasons. But now like you might see some Black Panther players like actually doing something.
Coach Mills (49:19.762)
Yeah, the magic, the magic team.
SUPPRESS (49:19.794)
And look at Widow. Like, what did they do to Widow? I feel like they actually like I was looking a little bit. I think they made her insanely overpowered. Like, I don't know if anyone really is realizing, but like she has six bullets with a bigger hitbox on her ult that's like instant full charge round. Like that seems unbelievable.
FullMetalLamps (49:23.799)
Yeah, like widow.
CaptainCoach (49:33.134)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:38.412)
Yeah, you can you can easily headshot and then use your fucking one tap thing.
CaptainCoach (49:41.069)
and she can dive in, go for kicks. They made her kind of more generic, they did kind of, again, what we said, they gave her just more consistent damage and less relying on those one shots. Right.
Coach Mills (49:49.548)
Yeah, yeah, they basically did what exactly what we talked about. And so going back to that point, you said like when everything everyone's broken, no one is good because I keep when we were going through when I was going through on stream, everyone kept on saying we need more bands like there's too much broken shit to ban. And it's like, well, actually, like the power level of everything is so much higher. Like, yes, things are more broken. But so are you. And the tools you have is better, too, like no matter who you are like there are undoubtedly is going to be like some broken things that rise to the top. There always are. But like
SUPPRESS (49:49.56)
Yeah. I mean I'm excited to try her out.
FullMetalLamps (50:17.613)
Gab it.
Coach Mills (50:18.58)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not it's not like You're gonna feel like you need to ban everything because like yeah that person has This amazing insane ability now, but so do you you have some also amazing insane ability like as an example Punisher has the full auto so he can fuck you up Well, guess what group can go into a Jeff bubble and protect himself now, by the way He gets to go into a name or devil so like so so
SUPPRESS (50:41.21)
Hey, hell yeah, you should better be bawling out.
CaptainCoach (50:41.849)
That's a cool ability.
Coach Mills (50:45.518)
So he but he had like everyone has something that like like that they feel like they could do more too so like exactly like I think They're deciding to take power creep to like the full like they they could go they could have gone two paths and one path is they nerf every fucking thing and I think a lot of people would probably not like the game and be really unhyped when their character feels like it can do less like and it's the same way with like
FullMetalLamps (51:09.732)
Mm. Yeah.
Coach Mills (51:14.018)
We talked about invis shield, like the fact that she can shield herself is bullshit, right? But once you give it to an invis player, if you take that away, it kind of feels like you're taking like taking away an arm or whatever the fuck. Like you give someone something, it's very hard to take it away just from a design point of view. So instead they went the opposite way, which is just, yeah, let's just fucking buff everything. Let's make it all broken. I'm excited. I'm excited. I don't know. I don't know about y'all, but I'm fucking excited.
FullMetalLamps (51:18.123)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (51:34.957)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (51:40.306)
bro, this is about to be unbelievable. All my characters went from like A to B to like quantum S tier. Like I don't know what I'm down with it, but hell yeah. Hell yeah.
CaptainCoach (51:52.524)
I think it makes sense though just for the game in general to have people be able to even like in the casual like we're talking about more of like the higher ranks but just being able to log on play a character that you want and not feel like you just immediately have to swap because you don't have the tools necessary to outplay a lot of the broken shit now everybody seems to have more tools like they kind of rising tide raises all ships sort of thing everybody's a little bit better now to where maybe you don't have to just play this swap carousel where
boils down to the same 15, 20 heroes every game, you know?
Coach Mills (52:23.32)
That's true. That's true. Yeah, that's true. that is true. Yeah. Especially the characters that have like dramatically different team ups like as an example, we'll talk about Storm later, but like Storm has like one of her team ups is literally like a heal rain. Like that's like way different. Like she has the Thor. I'm going to do more damage thing with her right click, but then she also has like, hey, I can be like a support type character.
CaptainCoach (52:26.383)
can actually specialize and be good at stuff.
CaptainCoach (52:51.727)
That's another thing we talked about too, give Storm more elements to mess with around with. Like literally, yeah.
Coach Mills (52:54.956)
Yeah, yeah, we did. We did. We talked about a lot of this shit on the pod. Yeah, they're listening. They're listening. Anyways, Dr. Strange. So Dr. Strange is actually going to be losing 25 health total, but his shield gets 150 more HP. And if you have invisible woman selected as your team of partner, you're going to have another 150 shield HP. So you could have a thousand. So like,
But like there is a cost here. So like you get the invisible woman, you know, like the pull in mouse from madness and you get an a thousand shield, like big ass fucking shield. But the alternative is you get gamma, which gamma is insane. So like you get the, the option of like, you know, know, a little bit of utility plus like a big ass shield, or you get like a super powerful mouse from madness in the form of like gamma. like, right. But like a thousand shield.
CaptainCoach (53:46.735)
Yeah, offense or defense, which one do you want?
Coach Mills (53:52.992)
is insane. From 700 to a thousand is a lot more shield, but there is a lot more damage sources as we talked about with fucking punny. Like there's a ton more damage that is just being poured out.
FullMetalLamps (53:58.263)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (54:02.233)
Yeah. It definitely seems like the tanks that don't get the health regen out of combat are getting other tankiness buffs, like in other areas. like if you're gonna frontline, you're really gonna be a frontline now. I think they're really trying to solidify Tiro's identities. So I think in the long run, it's gonna make it easier to balance. Like, Lambs, do you think a hero like Angela is now, like, don't you think she'll be pushed more into a way where she's just only gonna be doing her own thing and kind of like,
Coach Mills (54:15.052)
Hmm, that's.
CaptainCoach (54:31.535)
looking to make plays on it. I feel like the game's gonna almost become more predictable in
FullMetalLamps (54:36.771)
I I think that depends on what kind of ability you get. Like with Angela's slam, the one with her Starload team up, that one gives you an extra movement ability, right? And so you can use that to engage and then use your kidnap to run away. You can use that to finish off a someone who's running away when you don't have your kidnap after you commit all of it to your kidnap. And those type of abilities have that versatility, that flexibility to do however you want to use it. Versus something like
I don't know, strange with extra shield. Like there's only so much you can do with, you know, a hundred extra like two three hundred extra shield. and so
Coach Mills (55:15.148)
Right, okay.
CaptainCoach (55:15.247)
Yeah, so you think these raw stats maybe aren't as valuable overall, they're more of just.
FullMetalLamps (55:20.865)
I I think they're more boring, and it leads to less versatility in the game. And again, I come from like Overwatch. When they give, you know, Winston the ability to use his right click, which is a ranged option, versus his primary fire, which is like close range AoE, it it adds a little bit of complexity to the game. Whereas if they just made it so like his shield does extra fifty, you know, HP blocked, it's just kinda like w what difference does that really make? Right? It's not dynamic.
Coach Mills (55:47.318)
Right. So like one's just one's just increasing his power level over.
FullMetalLamps (55:53.26)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (55:55.514)
What a... So that's really the only team up Seagate, you didn't get anything too crazy ability wise or...
Coach Mills (56:01.71)
No, no, it's just it's It's it's it's it's basically just changes to his mouse from a madness. That's it Like he gets the same team up with invis but like that that invis like pull in Um, yeah, it's like like he likes that one a lot um, but like Uh, but like the gamma one like you'll see it. We'll talk about iron man 2 later Like gamma doesn't give him an extra ability. It just replaces one. He already has it just makes it lot more powerful and that's like that's a difference with some characters some characters get
FullMetalLamps (56:02.399)
Yeah, there's only two for each character.
CaptainCoach (56:12.037)
Yeah, the pull and then, yeah, right.
FullMetalLamps (56:16.94)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (56:30.752)
a whole new ability and some characters just get more powerful versions of ones they already have. And like in Iron Man's case, it's that, he just has more powerful. Like I would love to see maybe more stuff like barrel rolls and different mobility stuff they could have added to Iron Man, but instead they kind of just doubled down on what made him already strong historically, which is gamma. like they're just giving him back what made him really, really powerful before.
FullMetalLamps (56:35.179)
Right. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (56:52.635)
Yeah, I think this is a bit of a missed opportunity if I'm being honest. Kind of with Dino, but you know, again, you don't want to be changing too much all at once. Like, to me, strange. Something like reality warping, maybe a deployable like a Loki clone or a Groot Wall you could just turn into a puppy or something. You know, just something. Right? Just, right, some cool utility or you transmute the Groot Wall into like a pile of logs or something. know, just something funny like that.
FullMetalLamps (57:09.027)
Boy, that'd be fire.
Coach Mills (57:09.059)
you say like a magician
SUPPRESS (57:19.692)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (57:20.719)
some cool utility that he could provide that makes him feel more like a spellcaster, but
Coach Mills (57:25.656)
That is true, because they didn't, you know, he feels like the character that should have more, because he is a sorcerer, like Black Cat has more, and instead he has, he just got a replacement ability basically, both times, 100%.
CaptainCoach (57:27.801)
He didn't- it's strange, definitely-
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (57:33.583)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (57:33.645)
Yeah, yeah, I mean
CaptainCoach (57:38.019)
But do get what I'm saying with them, the heroes that there are not the ones that are getting that shield, they're really trying to solidify them as like a frontline main choke to give healers for sure something to do when they don't have to heal as much. Like I feel like they're still trying to keep the game's core identity kind of intact here. It's kind of my...
Coach Mills (57:54.616)
Well yeah, mean yeah, they could, they could give Strange something that like makes him fly forward and does some crazy shit but then your Stranges are not playing front to back. They're fucking flying into their back line or some shit.
CaptainCoach (58:03.971)
Right. They're making it very clear they want the strangers to be in front of suppress with his ammo thing doing this.
Coach Mills (58:11.126)
That's that that's interesting. It's like I think they've talked about this in the past where like certain types of characters design can actually encourage certain types of play styles, right? Like you buff them at the thing that they're good at you encourage that play style or you buff them at something completely different and you can you encourage like a completely separate type of play style, right? Like they could easily do that with Thor, right? They could give him more base health more You know awakening like lightning bolt damage and then less mobility and then you like encourage one type of type of play style like over another like they could do that with
FullMetalLamps (58:11.179)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (58:11.321)
yeah.
Coach Mills (58:41.026)
Balance. Okay, okay. okay. Let's going, moving on. Let's talk about Groot. Groot, nothing. Nothing changed. Okay. He's the same. what was his team ups again? yeah. He gets to turn into a bubble. Jeff, like a, a, like a name. It's basically like a name or bubble. He gets to pop into a name or bubble. Yeah. It looks absurd. And then he has the mantis one. like Groot also didn't really get anything nuts. I think Groot was already probably strong.
CaptainCoach (58:41.189)
Fuck it, just make them all melee, that'd be sick.
FullMetalLamps (58:49.729)
Literally nothing.
FullMetalLamps (58:54.487)
He gets Yeah.
CaptainCoach (58:58.971)
That looks so nutty, that ability. I love it. It's one of the coolest ones.
Coach Mills (59:11.118)
Groot's probably gonna be weaker relative to how he was before because he probably got the least amount of things. Yeah. He didn't need anything, 100%. But like they nerfed him by not buffing him is kind of the thing that I, you know. Okay, we're almost to the DPS. We're getting there. Hulk, this one's not important. We can skip this one. No, I'm just kidding. So, Hulk is gonna do five more damage with his heavy blow, but there's a cost.
CaptainCoach (59:17.157)
He's already hard meta. I think, I don't think he needed anything.
SUPPRESS (59:21.359)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (59:24.631)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (59:24.827)
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
CaptainCoach (59:33.211)
Hehehehehe
FullMetalLamps (59:33.921)
Ha ha ha.
Coach Mills (59:39.726)
And the cost is he gets his ultimate a little bit less quickly. And remember, this is in addition to like the ult nerf that we got. And then he's going to lose 350 HP, but he's gaining 300 regenerative shield. So what do you think about that Captain Coach?
CaptainCoach (59:58.308)
Obviously amazing buffs. I mean, for the longest time you have Captain America, who is a genetically improved human doing more damage with his punches than the ultimate strength rage monster in Marvel. So now at least Hulk has the same amount of melee damage. I think this was something that I never wanted in the game initially, but just due to power creep and having the same...
every hero having more or less the same level of carry potential. thought after a certain point, it's just evident Hulk does less damage than other heroes in most situations. So I think this is honestly going to be really nice change for him. And then, it's kind of same thing I said with Cap with the regenerative shield. It's going... Yeah, I think it's going to be a little better on him in some ways, even though they're reducing his all-in potential, lowering his max health, because with Hulk...
Coach Mills (01:00:41.804)
Yeah, it's so good on Hulk, right? It's gonna be insane.
CaptainCoach (01:00:52.963)
You can jump in and cycle your shields, where his cap has to wait for it to regen. Hulk can use it to stay in fights longer and do damage while it's up. And then the team-ups Hulk gets are actually insane. So I think Hulk is also one of the biggest winners of this patch. His play style is going to completely unlock in a way that I don't think a lot of people are ready for. This character is finally going to be able to tap into his skill ceiling and just absolutely carry games, just like every other hero can. He's not going have to play so supportive.
SUPPRESS (01:01:15.982)
Hell yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:01:21.092)
Yeah. A lot of characters. I feel like they're just making very viable that we're not like the greatest. Like Hulk was pretty solid, but now he's definitely a lot better. But like specifically like Widow, like these characters that were really not good that are just skyrocketing and like what you can do with them. The people who've been grinding Widow for a really long time, like now they're gonna be able to show if they're actually good what how good they are.
Coach Mills (01:01:43.566)
Yeah, that's a good point. We just talked about how like it doesn't matter how good you get at Black Panther You're kind of stuck at C3 you like get stuck there like no matter how good you are now You have like an opportunity to go further
SUPPRESS (01:01:55.524)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:01:58.207)
I people, I think Hulk probably experiences that a little bit too. And now you're gonna be able to just go get kills on your own in the neutral. You stun a support, you got an extra five damage on your punches, and now you get that attack speed increase. You're probably gonna be able to kill the other healer in exile now. So now you can go for your own plays, is where as before you couldn't. I mean, it's just gonna completely unlock him as a hero. Your strategies are gonna completely change.
FullMetalLamps (01:02:13.387)
Mm.
Coach Mills (01:02:19.342)
And then you and then those two team ups, right? You get the cap team up looks pretty cool. It's the and then what was the the wolf one? the unstoppable can't get stunned. I can't wait to the envis trying to push your ass or the Luna trying to freeze your ass and you get to shrug it off. Like you just don't even care.
CaptainCoach (01:02:25.135)
That one's alright. Yeah, the wolf one's gonna be the good one. The- Yeah. The-
FullMetalLamps (01:02:30.401)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:02:34.873)
Yeah, well it's when you're low on health, so it's gonna change your play pattern a little bit too. You're be using shields when you're low now to get a longer benefit with that. You're not gonna be pre-shielding as much.
Coach Mills (01:02:44.012)
It's also, you can trigger it one more way, right? When you throw the wolf or something like that. Is that what it is? think.
CaptainCoach (01:02:48.653)
Yeah, something like that. Or the wolf gets it, maybe. I don't know how works, but...
FullMetalLamps (01:02:48.919)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:02:53.131)
Yeah, you can trigger two times, one when you're low HP and one when you throw the Wolverine. So you can choose if you have a Wolverine, you can choose when you want that team up. And to kind of like sidestep, that's also another concern with these team ups. There are some team ups that are just clearly better than one another. Like, why would you ever go with cap team up, right? If you're if you're a hook player. So
CaptainCoach (01:02:57.403)
okay. my God, that's amazing. It's gonna be so good. I can't wait. I can't wait.
Coach Mills (01:02:58.168)
So like you could, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:03:02.852)
Wow. Yeah. Beautiful.
CaptainCoach (01:03:10.853)
yeah, you're gonna go the wolf one by the way on Hulk every time, every time. Yeah, it's awkward.
Coach Mills (01:03:10.985)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Coach Mills (01:03:16.728)
Cause it's cool as fuck. I don't know. I don't know. What do you want to do? I don't know. But the thing is like they, so what they said is they are going to now not add new team ups every season, but just bounce the ones we have. So like if they, they probably can find data, right? Like what percentage are people going this team up at this rank and then like balance it accordingly, most likely.
FullMetalLamps (01:03:28.769)
Right. Right.
CaptainCoach (01:03:30.885)
That's good.
FullMetalLamps (01:03:37.26)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:03:39.6)
That's actually a really good point. You could have team ups that are probably high rank team ups and some that are probably low ranked team ups and it might actually make the game easier for them to balance in some ways. know, cause now you don't just swap off a Hulk cause he's not good in whatever rank or score goal, you know. Now you just go the high rank team up that like if you're good at it, you're just like, you can abuse this really good thing. You know, you might see something like that emerge.
FullMetalLamps (01:03:49.261)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:03:56.334)
The utilities.
FullMetalLamps (01:03:57.207)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:04:00.822)
Well, okay, like I think that like one example I saw is like so it does spider-man has two team ups that are both really strong One of them is the he has the symbiote team up now So he can do the same one that he used to do the same combos the you know, the the venom symbiote team up now also if he has a penny He gets 40 shields on every proc of his webs so if he if he uppercuts you he gets 40 shields if he
You know, if he goes in for a combo, multiple point combo, he could get 80 shields, a whole bunch of shields, right? And so like, for the low rank Spider-Man players, or like the simple Spider-Man players, the Venom one's probably always gonna be better, because it's like very easy, you don't have to do crazy combos. But for like the really, really good high rank Spider-Man players, I wouldn't be surprised if the Penny one's actually better, because it's like, you can get a crazy amount of HP over the course of an engagement, you know, like weaving in. So like, that's kind of interesting, it's like...
SUPPRESS (01:04:54.966)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:04:58.442)
Now, not every team up is going to be like that to Fullmetal's point. Sometimes it's going to be one team up is good and the other one's Mickey Mouse. It doesn't do anything. Or not Mickey Mouse. Shout out Disney. But yeah, you get the idea. So yeah, interesting. Okay, let's talk about... yeah, okay, Penny. Lost 50 HP. Finally, the Penny buffs that we wanted.
FullMetalLamps (01:05:01.208)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:05:05.583)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:05:07.714)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:05:11.139)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:05:25.166)
No, I'm already a penny nurse that we wanted. mean, uh, no, I'm just kidding. Uh, how do you feel about this full metal? Uh, or how do feel about Penny's team ups?
CaptainCoach (01:05:25.519)
You
FullMetalLamps (01:05:28.322)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:05:30.522)
This is fucked up.
FullMetalLamps (01:05:32.461)
So there's I mean, I've always had this problem since season zero, right? Penny's old as shit and they've never once addressed this in any of her patch notes. So like I really just don't care about what they do to her. I think her two team ups, one's with Black Panther where you get a a shield, you become a shield tank, essentially. And then the second one is you get the rocket raccoon team up permanently. And so this is another one of those examples where the rocket team up is just something you would choose every single time. It it essentially
Coach Mills (01:05:40.842)
Yeah
Coach Mills (01:06:01.43)
Even not unlike attack, like on attack would you use the shield one and maybe.
FullMetalLamps (01:06:04.043)
I I would I would never use the shield tank because I'm never gonna be shielding for my team as a penny. If I'm gonna do that, I'm just gonna play Strange or Magneto or Emma. But with with the Nest, it actually lets you attack Penny better because you can set up quicker or you could put a nest behind you and put one in the front so that you're essentially s like trapping them in between. Again, like the nest gives you more versatility with how you wanna play.
Coach Mills (01:06:27.022)
Gotcha. Well, how strong would that shield one have to be? So it's weird because the shield, okay, yeah, two questions. One, how strong would the shield one have to be in order for you to want to play it? And two, do you think that that shield one is just mainly for like lower ranked pennies? Like not pennies like you, but like the general populace of pennies that like, or they're playing penny front to back anyways right now, you know?
CaptainCoach (01:06:32.069)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:06:47.171)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I again like in Overwatch they have this thing called perks, which is basically the same exact thing here. And there are a lot of times where lower ranked players will choose like the objectively quote unquote bad team up because it just works in that ELO. Like if you're gonna set AFK down main, the shield is obviously gonna be good for you if as a penny. But if you're playing more versatile or you're playing against people who like actually punish you for s sitting down main, the the team up nestle be infinitely better than just having a shield. And
The only way I could imagine the shield team up would be good is if like it it's like a magneto in a way where it either has infinite absorption or you can like you know flash it up as quick as you want, like a strange, right? You just right click, hold, right click hold, drop it, whatever. But then the second thing is like the team up with Rocket is you'll have a Rocket who's like really good. Right? Rocket's always valuable.
Coach Mills (01:07:35.758)
Mmm.
FullMetalLamps (01:07:47.341)
But then with teep with Penny, it's like, why would I want a Black Panther on my team? So that might also be like who your team up i you know is with might affect it. Like even with the Angela, right? You get two clones, but then Loki has a really hard time healing an Angela. So maybe you don't want to have that team up together because I mean you're not gonna get healed as Angela if you're playing with a Loki who can't aim.
Coach Mills (01:07:55.278)
Mmm.
CaptainCoach (01:07:55.291)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:08:10.046)
And it makes me wonder if they're ever gonna move these, like the team ups, you know? Cause like a lot of them have visual effects that are tied to them, like the Hello One with Deadpool. It's like, if they wanted to move those, like not change them in any way, but move the team up, they could, they could do it. It just, it's interesting. I just don't know if they ever will. Like they-
FullMetalLamps (01:08:14.848)
Yeah. I
CaptainCoach (01:08:24.741)
They definitely could.
FullMetalLamps (01:08:31.235)
Yeah, I imagine some like like w like we said, if we you know, look at the data and like one team up is just overwhelmingly bad, no one uses it in all the ranks, they'll probably just replace that one with a you know, another teamup that they think is better. Like maybe the gamma one is bad. So they do the log, you know, tree transformation spellcast thing with strange. but yeah, like it would have to be over seasons.
CaptainCoach (01:08:51.919)
I could see that happening. It definitely seems like they're trying to fill some of the weaknesses a lot of heroes have. And sometimes those weaknesses are a result of not being able to play, you know, whatever a certain character within a comp. Now, okay, maybe some strategy comes about where Penny can function as like a shield tank to the same efficacy as a mag or whatever. And maybe now like...
Right away, everybody will say the traps, the extra mines are better, but maybe in the long run, maybe there's new strategies that come up. But I would see that like, yeah, like what you said, being paired with a BP probably wouldn't be a situation where you'd probably want that one really. You know, it definitely, but they could always switch it between heroes. And I think that's probably the direction they could potentially do that.
Cause like a lot of the tank ones are with other tanks. I've noticed a lot of the DPS ones are with other DPS and a lot of the healer ones are with other healers. It was like the pattern we've seen, think with a lot of the team ups, which is, which is odd to me.
Coach Mills (01:09:53.486)
That is interesting actually. wish I knew the numbers on that, like how many, like what percentage are with. Penny gets one, PennyBP, Penny Rocket is kind of interesting. I think what we're gonna see like early on is we're gonna see some pretty dramatic changes to some of the other team ups. Because of exactly what Fullmetal said, it's like, you know, it's like maybe this one is super weak, right?
CaptainCoach (01:10:01.359)
Cause Penny... Yeah, like Penny BP...
Coach Mills (01:10:21.826)
they might change it dramatically. They might change the entire thing. They might give them like, one of the things I thought about is giving him like something similar to like a bubble shield from Halo, where it's like a deployable, like drop it down. It's like a full, a full shield around you for a certain duration, some shit like that. Like if it's so much weaker, you can make it stronger. You can make the decision hard if you want to make the decision hard. You, they might allow some of them to not be like, so like going back to Groot, the Jeff bubble or the heal wall.
Heal Wall is always gonna be better than a fucking Namor bubble. Undoubtedly, Heal Wall is insane. It's building the ultimate and all this shit. they could find a way to make that bubble broken if they really wanted to.
FullMetalLamps (01:10:55.981)
Yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:11:05.199)
mean, here's another hypothetical, okay? Cause you know, okay, maybe that let's say whatever it functions like a Magneto shield for the penny. Maybe you just had a death, you know, they're punished your alts coming up next fight and you got a whole point. You don't want to swap off a penny cause you got to keep your alt. mean, obviously like maybe you'd still swap, but there's going to be situations, right? Where I think that you're going to have unique and interesting choices to make where, Hey, maybe mid game I want to swap and catch them off guard.
FullMetalLamps (01:11:23.607)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:11:33.563)
I think it's gonna unlock a lot of strategies that people may not, you
Coach Mills (01:11:37.632)
It would be- I swear if I go up against a character the entire game and then they just randomly have an ability I'm not expecting I'm like what the fuck is that?
FullMetalLamps (01:11:45.175)
Yeah. Yeah. You
CaptainCoach (01:11:46.499)
Yeah, it could be really nuts.
SUPPRESS (01:11:47.982)
Telling you, yeah, it's gonna be insane, dude.
FullMetalLamps (01:11:49.603)
You're you're gonna like break the the big group wall and then you're like, Okay, he's he's not C C immune anymore, just use whatever and then he pops a bubble, right?
SUPPRESS (01:11:54.584)
And then he turns into a bubble. Huh.
Coach Mills (01:11:54.99)
Yeah, he turns into a- Or, no, like, imagine you're fucking, I don't know, I imagine that that bubble can block things. So like, what if you're like, you like try to Magneto-ult something and then you just like, fucking body block it as Groot out of nowhere or like, yeah, oh, like there's also like, yeah, that's,
CaptainCoach (01:11:57.555)
FullMetalLamps (01:12:07.629)
Yeah, you could body block, maybe.
CaptainCoach (01:12:11.855)
Whatever breaks you out of CC. You just use it when a wolf grabs you, wolf gets like caught in the bubble too.
FullMetalLamps (01:12:15.169)
Ooh.
Coach Mills (01:12:19.502)
But okay, let's move on to Rogue. basically, Rogue got changed in quite a few ways. They made her less survivable with her damage stance. They also made it so that she's not doing quite as much damage at full energy with the punch. And they're also reducing her HP by 75. But they're giving her 225 regenerative shields. Once again, I think this is similar where it's like, she is losing 75 total HP, but the regenerative shield is so good on a character like this that...
I think it actually is probably a net even or maybe even a buff. And then she also gets some really powerful team ups like with Gambit. Is it with Gambit? No, the other character. What's the second team up she has? Magneto. She can punch people into walls and then they take damage like Doomfist, which is insane.
FullMetalLamps (01:13:02.604)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:13:06.299)
I have pretty strong feelings about this. I think this is a nerf actually for rogue personally I think it's actually a pretty decent nerf for rogue, but I again, but I don't haven't seen the team ups I think with her gameplay loop and lamps you play rogue to write
Coach Mills (01:13:15.905)
Interesting.
FullMetalLamps (01:13:22.215)
no not really. That's cringe alarm, but I I I I agree with you that it is a net nerf to robe.
CaptainCoach (01:13:24.422)
Okay.
Her effective health is so much lower than it was before. And she's more of an all in type of hero where you, like when you know you can get a kill, you full combo someone full to dead. And then you, whatever you use, like whatever ability you have or like your shield to get out with just like a little bit of like, Rogue is really a true brawler, a true diver. And I think her losing the health is going to be a lot worse.
because her primary disengage I think is her kick when she flies out. she, like her regenerative shield, like yeah, she'll be able to go off on side angles more, but I think she's more exposed when she does that, because she doesn't have the consistent mobility that some other heroes have once she's used her cooldowns. So I think just losing the shield and losing the burst is really gonna actually hurt her, and I don't think the shield's gonna help much.
Coach Mills (01:14:10.094)
So when I read, so one of the things they said at the beginning of the patch list is they said some characters got nerfs, even if it didn't make sense why they got nerfs, because when they had the team up, they were too oppressive. And they cited Iron Man as an example where it's like, they had to nerf Iron Man because with Gamma, he's just like completely broken. I think Rogue is one of these examples where I played with the team up. If they did not reel her back, like at all, like if they just kept her completely the same,
Replaced 300 of her HP with regenerative shield with those powerful team ups. She crosses these breakpoint thresholds that I think are just too far like she would be Fucking insane. I mean like she's already doing some crazy damage and like, you know the combo of like the Magneto team up gives her like more Shields and like with her block It's like it replaces her block into a better block and she can punch people into a wall and do like more damage and it's like a knockback CC like I think
CaptainCoach (01:14:47.151)
Mmm.
CaptainCoach (01:15:07.781)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:15:10.476)
She's probably gonna feel weaker without the team up, but like when you add it all in, I think she's gonna be just fine. Like she might end up being weaker, she's, this is just a scary character where she can get insane when you start adding stuff to her.
FullMetalLamps (01:15:22.187)
Yeah. And and that's another thing with these team ups like, well, is it is it better that they gave her a Magneto team up but made her weaker overall, or should they just have not given her such a broken team up that when if they didn't nerf her outside of that, that she's just unstoppable and you have to nerf it, you know?
SUPPRESS (01:15:24.314)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:15:34.126)
You
CaptainCoach (01:15:34.853)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:15:38.572)
Well, she gets the team up no matter what though, right? Like she doesn't, she gets the team up regardless of whether or not, which is, so it's kind of just part of her kit. Like they basically gave her an ability and then nerfed her, is what they did.
FullMetalLamps (01:15:44.191)
Right. Right.
CaptainCoach (01:15:51.706)
Yeah, this one I don't think makes as much sense because I don't think they gave her anything too crazy new. She still has the Gambit 1, the mag shield. Is it just like a stronger shield or does it...
Coach Mills (01:16:00.952)
So her block is better. Like the block, like you know when she's blocking in her defense stance, it's better. Like it blocks more damage and it like looks bigger. And then like, yeah, and it does more damage when you punch and it will push people back and if they hit a wall, they'll take even more damage. Yeah. And then she has the Gambit one too, which she can do, which is like very similar to how Gambit was before. But it is like a lot harder to like...
CaptainCoach (01:16:06.075)
Mm-hmm.
FullMetalLamps (01:16:09.901)
Does more damage, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:16:17.293)
Okay, okay, the pin. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I...
FullMetalLamps (01:16:26.104)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:16:28.78)
Like I thought it was interesting how like before the core of like Rogue, Mag, Gambit, like they all had a team up with each other, right? Or like they both had team ups with Gambit and they became powerful. But like now, like it doesn't matter if you ban Gambit, like she has a connection with Mag, like she can do that team up or like she can do the Gambit one if Gambit happens to be open. like, I don't know. I could end up being wrong about this character, but.
I think that she's just, she might end up being really, really powerful still, even in spite of like maybe not getting the best treatment of these patch notes.
CaptainCoach (01:17:03.215)
Yeah, she's definitely good now, right now.
FullMetalLamps (01:17:05.507)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:17:05.686)
Right. Okay, we're almost done with the tanks. I think we have three more that we could talk about DPS. So I know that there's a lot we can we can we can we can speed it up guys. And by the way, I know that this could be a long pod if you either of you all need to leave for any reason at all. No worries. We'll keep trucking along. But if you but if you all need to if you all need to dip out. Yeah, let's go. yeah. yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:17:12.957)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:17:13.635)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:17:27.417)
yeah, we're looking good, dude. I mean, I'm excited to look over whatever's happening w in the DPS department, dude.
CaptainCoach (01:17:35.351)
Yeah, we got you here for...
Coach Mills (01:17:36.846)
So the thing, so now he can have higher bonus health. like before the bonus health that you got from haymaker-ing like people where you got shields from or bonus health from doing damage, now you can have up to 150 HP, which is good overall. And you could also do your ultimate after your leaps and after your slams easier.
So it's gonna be like easier for you to chain your ultimate into things. And also you're rarely gonna knock someone out of your ult. Like sometimes you would Yancy charge them and they would be above and then they could just like move. They could use movement abilities. So they fixed all those things. Nothing crazy here. I mean the 50 HP max is nice. Like the bonus HP max. Nothing truly crazy, but they did give him two team ups.
CaptainCoach (01:18:16.795)
I hated it. I'm so glad they fixed that.
Coach Mills (01:18:31.054)
one of them is with Invis, which is a fine. It's very similar to what it was before. Kind of an uninspired team up, but the other one is with Torch and you know, he gets to have some flaming swings. I, I think overall it's, you know, thing, not much large changes. He's kind of still just doing the thing that he's always done, which is like still be like an anti-dive guy. He has a few options, but nothing crazy inspired.
FullMetalLamps (01:18:54.889)
It is it is just a buff to him overall, so that like you might see more things now.
CaptainCoach (01:18:58.139)
I think Thing is going to be better. I think Thing is going to be better for sure. He gets the fantastic Force Shield as was the theme of
Coach Mills (01:18:59.561)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:19:05.31)
Right, right. It just sucks because like they when they when they talked about things they're like we looked through all of the team ups and found the most interesting best ones and it's like that one's like really boring to me like I know it's good but it's like is that the best we got on the thing like really like we can't think of anything better. People have been talking non-stop about letting it pick up like a rock and throw it like we can we get we could have got something like that like we got something. I don't know but I think it's fine like yeah it's good.
CaptainCoach (01:19:13.999)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:19:35.126)
It's fine. Okay, these these are the two I'm really excited to talk about because these are probably my two mains going forward for season nine. I'm so hyped. I'm so high. Thor is fucking nuts. So now when you just tap your dash, you're going to go a little bit further. Your throw is going to do five more damage when the hammer hits and five more damage when it comes back. So 10 more damage total if you hit both, you're going to gain 25 more bonus health upon hit of it.
FullMetalLamps (01:19:43.339)
I'm not, I'm not at all.
CaptainCoach (01:19:45.147)
The Thor one I'm not looking forward to.
Coach Mills (01:20:04.75)
And now you get 300 regenerative shield At the cost of 300 base HP. So this is the character I played the most when I did the play test Undoubtedly this Thor is one of the best recipients of regenerative shield because he's a character that is always dipping in and out of combat He dips out he needs a little bit of resources and he can get back in you combine that with the bonus health he gets It's fucking phenomenal like this character has so much more uptime. He's extremely slippery
and he gets, he's like, he just hits harder and then hit both of his team ups are insane. So the first team up is with Angela. He can just get the movement ability with Angela anytime. He doesn't need Angela. If he has Angela, he gets bonus shields. the fact that you give them another movement ability, this allows Thor to play in dive comps like a lot easier. Cause that's the kind of his problem is he can't really overextend himself that much. He can do that really easy. And.
CaptainCoach (01:20:56.059)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:21:00.587)
Namers ain't down.
Coach Mills (01:21:03.02)
perhaps even more broken, which is crazy. Like I thought when I heard I can use Angela team up, I just wanted to use that. He gets the Hella team up, which does two things. Without the Hella, if you take lethal damage, you get a whole big chunk of HP that is decaying. If you don't kill anybody, you're just gonna die. But if you kill someone, then you instantly get resurrected at 300 HP. So like I can int in, die.
Come back alive, kill someone, I have 300 HP, I get to get out of the fight, now I get my 300 regenerative shields back and I can get back into the fight full HP. Like nothing happened. If a Hela kills anybody, by the way, you only have to participate in the final. You don't have to get the final blow. If a Hela kills anybody, I also just resurrect too, with the Hela. either line is completely busted on this character.
CaptainCoach (01:21:40.283)
It's Renata.
SUPPRESS (01:21:40.598)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:21:51.565)
Jesus.
SUPPRESS (01:21:52.74)
That is not okay, dude.
CaptainCoach (01:21:53.071)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:22:00.958)
Never thought that they could not buff Thor's ultimate and I'd be happy but Thor is so fucking insane for ranked play like he might still be bad and like Eternity plus lobbies, but for every other rank this guy is running your fucking lobbies like guaranteed like it's actually insane I Mean you need to you need to burst the fuck out of him. Yeah, you got a person Yeah, yeah, you got a burst the fuck out of him. You got a burst the fuck out of him
CaptainCoach (01:22:15.705)
Yeah, how do you stop this? How do you stop this?
SUPPRESS (01:22:16.142)
Yeah.
Hopefully the unlimited ammo is taking him out, dude!
FullMetalLamps (01:22:22.221)
Just Just ban Thor, bro. We have to ban him. Like the propaganda actually hit way too hard now.
CaptainCoach (01:22:26.092)
I might.
Coach Mills (01:22:26.126)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Let's fucking go. Oh, no, he's act He's actually so good. He's actually so good and the fact that he has two team ups that are both so strong that I want them both is Actually like like that's so fucking good. Um but I think that
CaptainCoach (01:22:29.961)
Hahaha
SUPPRESS (01:22:33.88)
I mean Thor is about to be insane. He is about to be insane.
FullMetalLamps (01:22:34.06)
No.
CaptainCoach (01:22:46.842)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:22:49.72)
Venom is actually an even better recipient. Like I think Venom might be best here. Like he might be the best character in the game. Because, so he's actually losing 75 HP, but he's getting 250 regenerative shield, which is really, really good for a character like him. Cause he can like disengage, set up, get shields. With the blade team up, his tendrils give him legitimately life steal, which is so strong on a character like this, because it allows you to dramatically in...
SUPPRESS (01:22:56.514)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:23:16.59)
your engagements and in some matchups they are looking to survive you they're not really looking to deal with you and you just get to be there like you don't have to leave like you get enough heals to just keep cycling over and over you can cycle their backline reset up cycling their backline I don't even know what his other team up is it's wait what is this other team up he has another team up but I don't even care about it because the blade one's so broken like it's unbelievable
FullMetalLamps (01:23:41.619)
It it it's with Phoenix. yeah, Phoenix where you
CaptainCoach (01:23:43.193)
This, the AOE one?
Coach Mills (01:23:45.482)
with the whip? I didn't even try that one. Yeah, it probably is really, really busted too.
FullMetalLamps (01:23:48.683)
That one seems really strong if you have a Phoenix on your team.
CaptainCoach (01:23:54.172)
I think this is honestly a pretty decent change overall for Venom. Cause I think this does kind of make him better in the lower ranks and not as like he's still going to be tough to deal with, but it's not going to be the worst thing ever in higher ranks because of the way they're balancing his damage. They're taking it away from his primary and moving it to other things that are easier to get off.
Coach Mills (01:23:58.881)
Cough cough
CaptainCoach (01:24:20.443)
So I think in the longterm, they're actually be able to balance this a little better and make Venom not such a high-yellow demon. What do you think about that, Mills? Well, your primary, I think, swaps to that whip for that one. So it's like a cleave.
Coach Mills (01:24:27.927)
What do mean, either taking away damage from his primary or...
Coach Mills (01:24:34.666)
for the Phoenix one? Yeah, like I don't really... I don't. I think the Blade one's too strong. Like the lifesteal on the Blade one is just way too strong.
CaptainCoach (01:24:38.139)
You don't think that one's gonna be picked?
CaptainCoach (01:24:46.734)
Hmm
FullMetalLamps (01:24:47.467)
I think for in the lower ranks, Phoenix will be better 'cause you can just do more damage and just kill people. But then in higher ranks, like Venom's just gonna be unkillable, right? It it's like the same thing with Luna's Snowflake on Cap right now, right? That's why you you have to ban Poly's ignite or Poly's cap and ignite. It like how are you ever gonna kill a Venom, especially if you ban out Punisher and Bucky or whatever? Like that guy doesn't need a support. Yeah, like now now
SUPPRESS (01:25:12.788)
It's not happening. It's impossible. It's actually impossible.
Coach Mills (01:25:14.289)
Hey
FullMetalLamps (01:25:16.033)
So let's let's get a blade, let's get Venom, and let's put Luna Snowflake on him and the Ultron drone and now like how are you ever gonna win the game? Right. It it's just stuff like this adds over time.
CaptainCoach (01:25:23.205)
Jesus, Jesus.
Coach Mills (01:25:25.496)
Well, like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, probably the broken shot on it. I'm just kidding. The thing that's most interesting to me about all these characters that have this bonus HP and like they're self-sufficient like Venom and Cap and Angela is like, I feel like we could build compositions that really don't require a lot of heals at all. Like you put Psylocke and Star-Lord too that have some of this overshield and then you have Venom and then you have Angela and then like...
CaptainCoach (01:25:27.451)
my god.
CaptainCoach (01:25:46.235)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:25:50.434)
who gives a fuck what your supports are, like you don't need them that much. you could play Adam Ultron if you fucking want to, like you don't need them. Which is kind of crazy to think about. Like I do think it does open design up a little bit, or not design, like comp building, but it might just be too broken. Like it might end up being really, really broken.
FullMetalLamps (01:25:52.759)
Yeah. I mean
CaptainCoach (01:26:08.507)
Yeah. Is all this regenerative shield that these tanks are getting an indirect nerf to poke slop? Just a lot of the random damage? Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:26:18.508)
Yes, yes it is, yeah, like every mobility character that got, basically if you didn't get regenerative shield in this patch, you needed to get something really strong. So like as an example, like Punny didn't get regenerative shield, but he got a very, very powerful team up. If you didn't, yeah. But for some characters, they didn't get regenerative shield and then their team ups are not insane. And those characters, like as an example, like Cyclops, he got nerfed, he didn't get an insane team up, and he doesn't have regenerative shield, like.
SUPPRESS (01:26:31.086)
Yeah, he'd got a minigun.
Coach Mills (01:26:48.136)
He's gonna feel that shit like a lot comparatively like that's a big nerf to him. I think it's gonna create like a kind of a divide between like anything that doesn't have regenerative shield. You're gonna really want that character to be very strong at doing whatever it does.
CaptainCoach (01:27:01.979)
Yeah, I mean, any prolonged engage where there's no healer, the regenerative shield will always win in the long, like if it goes on long enough, because they'll have to go get health packs or go back to healer you can just kind of hold space. So it's gonna completely change the game. Why do you think Venom got less is the last thing I wanted to ask you Mills or Lamps, just because he's more self-sufficient or are you just too good? Yeah, it's a good point.
Coach Mills (01:27:15.746)
Yeah, it is.
Less regenerative shield? I mean, it's, he's already just so broken. Like,
FullMetalLamps (01:27:24.939)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I'd be okay with them giving him like a hundred fifty regenerative shield, really.
CaptainCoach (01:27:32.676)
Yeah, honestly, yeah, he doesn't even need it. His mobility is so good. Right. Well, that's the cool thing about it too is that they can tune it for different heroes. if you are just like Venom's like an actual tank, whereas like a lot of the other tanks in the game really aren't, they die super fast. So with him, it's like in and out, in and out. So that shield on him is more just like a tempo thing for healers than it is the actual, like he needs it. He doesn't really need it.
Coach Mills (01:27:33.206)
I don't even know if they should have gave him any to be honest with you! Like I'm gonna abuse it but holy fuck like-
FullMetalLamps (01:27:35.029)
May I maybe like the compromise here is just that he gets a little bit Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:27:43.726)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:27:58.028)
I know that people might not, so like, I have a strong feeling that people are gonna like Regenerative Shield so much that before long we'll see more and more characters with it. Like, I don't think that this should be an effect that only should be on mobility characters. It's always gonna help mobility characters more, right? Because they can dip out of fights easier and play angles. But I also don't mind, like, as an example, Punisher having it. Like, I don't mind. Like, if he's out of fights for a while behind a piece of cover.
CaptainCoach (01:28:07.931)
oooo
CaptainCoach (01:28:15.481)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:28:23.396)
Mind that either. Hell yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:28:23.867)
Just give him like 50. Give him like 50, you know?
Coach Mills (01:28:25.462)
Yeah, like like like anything that takes away the need to be heal bodied and like gives more agency to a player Is always a good thing in my opinion. I wish they would have gave regenerative shields to every character in different amounts But this is a good start. I think I also think it's such a powerful effect that it's It's kind of strange to they only gave it to the characters that could abuse it the most when it's just like you could have just gave it to everybody and They're already gonna use it better. But like, you know
CaptainCoach (01:28:39.194)
Mmm.
FullMetalLamps (01:28:48.62)
Yeah
FullMetalLamps (01:28:53.549)
Yeah. With with Overwatch they have like a similar thing where everybody just gets passive healing if you don't take any damage. So that that changes the game a lot and it might just make like Poke Slab really bad next season. but then th it might be like a hell to balance it out because, you know.
Coach Mills (01:28:58.572)
Right, right.
Coach Mills (01:29:07.566)
think it will.
CaptainCoach (01:29:10.51)
I... To me, I feel like they're just gonna have to be more coordinated just like everybody else. Like, your dive has to be coordinated, going in at the same time, not poke. You're all gonna have to shoot people at the same time. You're gonna be able to just, like, pop a tank three times, headshot, boom, boom, boom, dead. You're actually gonna have to... I feel like you're gonna have to be a bit more coordinated. I think this is kinda even in the playing field, really. I mean, it might be super imbalanced, but... think... I... I think it's... I think it's a step. I think it's... It's pretty exciting, for sure.
FullMetalLamps (01:29:22.083)
Fair. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:29:28.878)
It's gonna be, it's gonna be in fucking paradise, right?
Coach Mills (01:29:35.694)
I don't know about you guys. I know we're not even done yet, but I think this is such a breath of fresh air, like actually reading real changes in a patch notes, because like these past like four patch notes I've just been reading and I'm just like, okay, no, like just begging for two characters to get changed that don't get nerfed, you know, or whatever. So like, I know it's going to be a fucking chaotic nightmare, but it's like, it's an exciting one, you know, like that's how I feel anyway. Okay, so Black Cat.
SUPPRESS (01:29:36.41)
yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:29:45.56)
yeah, I dude.
CaptainCoach (01:29:45.979)
100%.
CaptainCoach (01:29:53.435)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:29:54.453)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:30:01.389)
Exactly.
Coach Mills (01:30:04.748)
So now, you know, she's losing some HP, but she's gaining it back in regenerative shield, 125. This is a character that's probably gonna very, very greatly use this shield, because she can dip out of fight. Like that's all she does, is dip out of fights and cycle. And during that cycle, she's gonna get 125 HP. She has more fortune cap, so she can top out. Not the most important, but it is relevant. She has a higher odds of...
CaptainCoach (01:30:14.869)
yes.
Coach Mills (01:30:31.182)
of like getting better payouts with the tablet, like the dice roll, Gamma thing. I don't know what the odds increased to, cause they don't tell us. So I don't know, nice. But then she is losing five damage. She is losing 5 % damage.
SUPPRESS (01:30:43.75)
at least she's using a tiny bit, you know. Tiny little little bit of damage to make up for it.
Coach Mills (01:30:49.184)
Little bit. Yeah, but she does get some really strong team ups. One was Spider-Man, that if she hits someone twice, they get webbed up, I think. And that, with her whip, yeah. And then one more, I forgot who the other one was. But like, dive characters that get new abilities, sometimes just the combination of them, the break points, they can disproportionately gain when you give them small things.
SUPPRESS (01:30:58.584)
Wow, that is absurd.
FullMetalLamps (01:30:59.841)
Yeah. I think with her whip.
Coach Mills (01:31:18.54)
like that.
CaptainCoach (01:31:20.877)
I think this is going to make her OP again.
I'm happy about the damage nerf and I don't know maybe suppress. You could give us your thoughts on this hero as like a hit scan, like range more character. Cause I feel like she's just about to go kill whoever she wants.
SUPPRESS (01:31:36.773)
Yeah, I hate this character. I'm gonna be honest. I like for at least now that Bucky's better, like I am down with that. Like Bucky will be able to deal with her to an extent. But she was unbelievably OP. I'm sure she'll be unbelievably OP again, but every character will be, so I mean, as long as you play around it, hopefully. It's not too bad.
CaptainCoach (01:31:40.602)
Ha ha.
Coach Mills (01:32:01.358)
Okay, moving on to Black Panther. So he just lost, he lost a little bit, but he gained it back in Regenerator Shield, which is just gonna be a net buff. I think more interestingly on this character is he has two team ups. One of them is the Magic team up where he gets to rewind time, which I think is probably one of his best team ups he's ever gotten because you just get to go all in and then go back.
CaptainCoach (01:32:27.461)
pair super well with the shield too to be able to reengage quickly once your health goes up and go right back in as soon as those cool downs are up,
Coach Mills (01:32:30.138)
Right, Recycle. You might be able to do something like go really hard in, bait out some cooldowns, rewind, and then get your shield back and then reengage and actually get kills on the second engagement. Like, you basically do, you get to do a double engage really quickly and like actually make something happen. Cause like your first engagement could like bait out like, thing slam.
CaptainCoach (01:32:44.922)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:32:56.15)
or some shit and then you rewind and then the next engagement they don't have it or whatever, you know.
SUPPRESS (01:33:01.39)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:33:01.499)
And it's cool because if you do take a big chunk and maybe they get a good trade on you when you do that initial engage, you come back again, maybe you can't get a health pack in time, maybe you only come back with 175 health. So I think the supports are gonna be in over their heads this patch. I do think there is, like the fact that it doesn't completely heal you to full makes me feel like it will be at least a little bit of counterplay involved. But again, it's just so much up in the air.
Coach Mills (01:33:16.718)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:33:28.4)
We're gonna have to see what's what's this other team up to y'all know
FullMetalLamps (01:33:31.265)
He he has one with Storm where he basically pulls them in kinda like the strange in this team up.
Coach Mills (01:33:35.722)
yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't wait for the, like think about the, just the clips you could get like in this. There's going to be so many clips. You got to be the first one suppressed to get a 6K with the new team up. You just got to.
CaptainCoach (01:33:36.516)
wait, that's gonna be so cool if you can pull people in and just like, cleave them all.
FullMetalLamps (01:33:42.882)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:33:43.583)
my god yeah, I'm excited dude. I'm so excited.
SUPPRESS (01:33:49.987)
okay, I'm gonna ask, can you use a shotgun with unlimited ammo? No way you can, right? No. No, the shotgun they let you use the shotgun. What are they thinking dude?
Coach Mills (01:33:53.542)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing as... Yeah, I literally, right before we did the pot, I just watched the... I tuned into a random one of your stream suppress and you like, you got a quad kill with O and you fucking zipped into their spawn and killed like four people again with your shotgun. So I'm excited to see whether you do this shit.
CaptainCoach (01:33:58.134)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
SUPPRESS (01:34:08.725)
my.
FullMetalLamps (01:34:11.651)
Jesus.
SUPPRESS (01:34:11.778)
Yeah, and that was w that was with eight bullets. Imagine twenty seven million with the shotgun, dude.
Coach Mills (01:34:16.494)
Hey, no, I here's the thing. All right. This is a PSA to supports lamps loves PSA to supports if I see like cloak and dagger if you fucking anywhere near Punisher in vis if you pull anywhere near pressure y'all are fucking dying You're taking like five shotguns to the fucking head and you're dying to like any Punisher It doesn't even have to be a good Punisher because they just get to shotgun you So
SUPPRESS (01:34:20.024)
I'm down with it, dude.
FullMetalLamps (01:34:34.935)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:34:36.314)
Yeah. Yeah, you're getting evaporated. No, the shotgun is gonna be the most deadly part about the unlimited ammo, dude. People don't know that used to be more broken than the old. Like you could kill everyone with just the shotgun unlimited ammo.
FullMetalLamps (01:34:39.01)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:34:52.686)
That's just absurd.
CaptainCoach (01:34:53.699)
And I believe you can put it down yourself now too. It wasn't before it was The Rocket who had to put it down.
SUPPRESS (01:34:53.858)
I'm ready for it dude. Yeah, yeah Yeah you had to you had to wait for them to put it down the the rocket
CaptainCoach (01:35:01.135)
Yeah. Alright.
Coach Mills (01:35:01.288)
Wait, wait, wait! Wait, wait!
FullMetalLamps (01:35:01.975)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:35:05.698)
You throw it yourself, dude.
CaptainCoach (01:35:07.695)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:35:08.163)
The my my number one memory in this game is I was playing Penny Parker. I see my rocket and my Punisher try to do their to team up on on the waterfall map on the Wakanda map. I see my rocket throw it out and I ask him, What the fuck are you doing? Because he he thought his res beacon was the infinite ammo. So each fight he would toss I was like, Where's the where's my res? I'm not getting res
Coach Mills (01:35:26.456)
You
SUPPRESS (01:35:27.3)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:35:31.779)
CaptainCoach (01:35:32.421)
Hahaha
my god.
FullMetalLamps (01:35:36.171)
And then he's not doing the infinite ammo because he's throwing the wrong ability. Like, and now you don't have to rely on a stupid ass support to do that.
Coach Mills (01:35:39.726)
Hehehehehahahaha!
SUPPRESS (01:35:39.876)
That's what I'm saying dude, it's bad. Yeah, you need to do it yourself. Yeah, you you can do it yourself now, dude. You can do it yourself, hell yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:35:41.817)
Jesus.
Coach Mills (01:35:45.32)
my god. Okay. Okay. So Cyclops, this is a, this is a character that I think got a, like a pretty sizable nerf here. So, so his primary does four less damage, which is actually a lot when certain characters get like very little. His ricochet does 10 less damage and both of his movement cooldowns are three more seconds. Plus he loses 5 % damage on top of that.
CaptainCoach (01:35:46.235)
Hahahaha
Ha ha ha ha.
SUPPRESS (01:35:55.973)
He needs one bro, he was insane yeah, he needed one. He was dumb as fuck.
CaptainCoach (01:35:56.678)
Good.
SUPPRESS (01:36:12.11)
Damn, that's yeah, that's crazy. Thank God, bro, fuck that crazy.
Coach Mills (01:36:15.842)
so that's like they they send him to the fucking gulag is what they did like they
SUPPRESS (01:36:19.416)
Yeah, that's what he deserves, dude. He's a piece of shit. I played a bit of him, but he's a fucked up character.
Coach Mills (01:36:24.47)
Yeah, it's just a bit too powerful like yeah like playing this front-to-back bullshit And they heavily nerfed him like like yeah, he does have some pretty decent team I was but like they're nothing amazing comparatively to like other team ups I Think that like this character is quite a bit weaker like they they actually took him like several steps back
SUPPRESS (01:36:44.066)
glad dude. I'm glad. It buffs the other characters.
FullMetalLamps (01:36:45.942)
Yeah, I'm happy.
CaptainCoach (01:36:48.315)
What do you guys think? I think he went from S plus to probably like beat your, that's just a.
SUPPRESS (01:36:52.068)
Yeah, I mean the movement really messes him up. He he probably is like low A, but
Coach Mills (01:36:52.878)
He's he's He's still poke slop and poke slop is still probably gonna be good against a lot of things like he could still kill you from range but He's not gonna be this like I don't think he he's probably like like maybe it He's top ten at best. I don't think he's gonna be a top three or top five like I highly doubt it Especially when you have like other options like there's a lot of really powerful options like am I gonna play him over punny? Am I gonna play him over? Hello, like hella is so good now
FullMetalLamps (01:36:54.285)
I would
CaptainCoach (01:36:56.922)
Lo-eh.
CaptainCoach (01:37:01.295)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:37:06.65)
I don't know.
SUPPRESS (01:37:11.96)
Yeah, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:37:17.358)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, dude. There's a lot of characters. There's a lot of characters.
FullMetalLamps (01:37:22.188)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:37:22.732)
Like, who am I playing him over? Elsa got buffed, we'll talk about Elsa in a second. Like, I don't know, I don't know who. Psylocke got buffed, Starlord got amazing team ups, like, why am I playing Cyclops?
SUPPRESS (01:37:26.369)
my god, dude. I'm I'm excited for all this shit.
SUPPRESS (01:37:31.588)
Starlord. Yeah, Starlord.
FullMetalLamps (01:37:33.451)
I I I think now with Cyclops it's not like you pick him over every other hit scan, it's like if you want his specific hit scan abilities. Like you want someone with movement with the rest of your dive comp. Or maybe you want his ult because it's not blockable compared to like Elsa where you have to play around your map, which might be walling you off. His ult is a lot more maybe versatile, quote unquote. So now he's a little bit more imbalanced. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:37:40.908)
Mm. Right.
SUPPRESS (01:37:54.572)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:37:56.333)
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, he's probably not gonna be like completely terrible. It's just like he's not Yeah before his numbers were just way too high. Just didn't really make sense to pay anything else like So that's good, that's good. Hey you got nerf it's good. Okay, dare dare devil. So dare devil it lost 150 but gained it back in regenerative shield and then he lost five percent damage But dare devil also has these
FullMetalLamps (01:38:05.143)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SUPPRESS (01:38:06.33)
Too stupid. Yeah, it was t it was so dumb. It didn't make any sense.
Hell yeah, I'm down with that.
Coach Mills (01:38:25.602)
Teamups, what are the two he has? think he... I forgot exactly what he has.
FullMetalLamps (01:38:29.667)
One was with Punisher, I think. And this
Coach Mills (01:38:33.684)
One of them, yeah, one of them was with Punisher. One of them, Iron Fist.
FullMetalLamps (01:38:36.787)
second one was Iron Fist. Yeah. He whenever he deflects, he gets healing and it I think it's like bigger more AOB, it does more damage, you don't have to aim it, and it'll still like hit them back. So yeah.
Coach Mills (01:38:44.749)
Okay.
Coach Mills (01:38:52.99)
My thing with like Daredevil is like it doesn't even matter what his team ups are and it doesn't even matter about this damage decrease like For a genitive shield on this character is fucking insane like so fucking good He can because he can cycle in like let's say he gets out of a fight at 50 HP And then he gets he waits for a second goes back to 200 HP You could cycle in at 200 HP like you don't give a fuck if they don't have cooldowns like you don't care so I mean, I just think he's probably gonna be like
I don't necessarily think he's gonna be better than he was before like all these nerfs that he got recently, but I do think he's still gonna be very competitive and probably one of the best dives.
SUPPRESS (01:39:29.934)
There will always be OP, dude. That character is dumb. He could be like one meter and I feel like he'd be OP.
Coach Mills (01:39:35.15)
Hey, it's worst.
FullMetalLamps (01:39:35.683)
I mean yeah, I mean the s the strength of his comes from having infinite wall hacks all the time. So
SUPPRESS (01:39:40.292)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:39:40.63)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:39:41.472)
Yeah, I think this is going to be another server. think Daredevil Black. I think just Dive in general is back. It's like so big.
SUPPRESS (01:39:47.172)
Hope they're banned every game, that's what I'm hoping for. They just don't exist.
CaptainCoach (01:39:50.344)
I think you will see dive being banned again. That is actually my prediction because of just the supports are, they're going to have more freedom, but if they're always getting dove and that kind of gets taken away, right? So it's, think triple healer also just because of how much of this is in the game might actually be picked even more, even though you don't need to heal as much just for survivability, which I will get to.
SUPPRESS (01:40:01.775)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:40:08.696)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:40:12.13)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:40:12.194)
Hey, all I'm saying is maybe we're gonna start seeing like fucking Ultrons just like fly up. Like if they're playing an all-in dive comp, like if you're playing Cap, Venom, Daredevil, Black Cat, they're just an Ultron just sitting like up skybox. Like think about it this way, like you could have a composition that doesn't need a lot of heals and then you just need backland supports that can just survive. Like you don't need anything else from them besides like not dying. Rocket Jeff, Ultron, like shit like that. And if they ever come out with more supports that just like...
SUPPRESS (01:40:16.91)
You could, dude.
CaptainCoach (01:40:18.457)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
FullMetalLamps (01:40:25.015)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:40:32.336)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:40:32.346)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:40:34.455)
Rocket, Jeff, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:40:36.698)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (01:40:42.239)
Like probably like white fox is most likely gonna see a ton of play going forward too Even though she did get like a lot of changes. So yeah, we'll see we'll see what this all looks like but it's
SUPPRESS (01:40:46.874)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:40:52.602)
mean that.
SUPPRESS (01:40:52.772)
Excited, bro. I'm so excited for this new this new season.
CaptainCoach (01:40:55.643)
The supports are getting a lot of tools to deal with this and this is less damage overall. I feel like the tanks in DPS are gonna be more like annoying gnats, but not as oppressive when they're actually in. So who knows, it might actually be like not as bad for supports because they get like rocket gets, I mean, we'll get to it. They get a lot of survivability tools. The cloak one in particular is like the.
FullMetalLamps (01:41:06.699)
Mm.
SUPPRESS (01:41:17.349)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:41:18.638)
They would they hey they have to actually use those tools. You know they have to you they at the time So anyways, DPS Deadpool he lost 5 % damage literally doesn't matter. This character is so strong with the team up. It's fucking absurd I I actually think that the team up is so good on this character that he might just be broken with it
FullMetalLamps (01:41:21.347)
True.
CaptainCoach (01:41:21.781)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
SUPPRESS (01:41:32.842)
yeah. I'm hype.
SUPPRESS (01:41:40.026)
Dude, I I am hype. He's one thousand percent broken. I'm about to show the world. He is one million percent broken. I haven't even seen the team up and I it's OP.
Coach Mills (01:41:49.134)
Yeah, it's actually absurd, it's really good. He also has that gambit team where he gets another movement ability, like more movement is good if you wanted to go that direction, but I do think the Hello One is super, super strong.
SUPPRESS (01:41:59.864)
Yeah, that hella one seems insane. I'm not gonna lie.
Coach Mills (01:42:04.904)
It's yeah, it's it's very fucking good. It's it looks cool as hell too. okay, so Elsa i'm very curious about y'all's opinion on this because Elsa now double bail blaster has four more shells some more uptime the helix cooldown is Yeah, yeah, I know there's a one second increase on the helix the right click and then if you if you have devil dino as your team up partner you get
SUPPRESS (01:42:18.136)
What? Four more shells? That's insane!
Coach Mills (01:42:33.998)
more pellet damage you get 0.5 more pellet damage per shot and like you also have powerful team ups I forgot what they were I think if I remember correctly
CaptainCoach (01:42:47.493)
Someone told me you got four dashes, but I don't remember if that was what it was.
SUPPRESS (01:42:51.204)
That can't be rare.
FullMetalLamps (01:42:51.211)
She sh her passive with Deadpools, she gets like another another bar underneath for a passive. So she gets she can recharge to four. Which if that's how that works, then her cooldowns go down even faster. Right. and then the second team up second team up, I think it was with Jeff? I'm I don't remember. But yeah I think there's just kind of like
SUPPRESS (01:42:59.39)
What? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that is not okay at all. I mean I'm down to start playing it I guess.
CaptainCoach (01:43:02.756)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (01:43:06.818)
Okay, gotcha.
FullMetalLamps (01:43:21.003)
I don't like seeing Elsa getting buffed ever. So
CaptainCoach (01:43:23.076)
I don't either.
SUPPRESS (01:43:23.66)
I don't like that either. I don't like that either. Yeah, I don't like this one.
Coach Mills (01:43:23.742)
No, no, I don't like this shit either I don't know why they did this like they took cyclops and made him weaker. You're gonna see Jean in a second They did make her weaker too. But for Elsa they were like nah like we're making this character I mean, I guess she isn't like a pure poke slop. I guess
CaptainCoach (01:43:25.723)
I do not like this hero.
FullMetalLamps (01:43:28.854)
So
FullMetalLamps (01:43:33.879)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:43:34.447)
Thank God.
SUPPRESS (01:43:38.01)
Doesn't she have a Deadpool team up too? Or did they take that out?
FullMetalLamps (01:43:41.783)
Yeah yeah. No, d she still has a dead bull demo.
CaptainCoach (01:43:42.235)
Just.
SUPPRESS (01:43:45.208)
Yeah, so that means Deadpool's even better too.
CaptainCoach (01:43:45.344)
Just for anyone watching while we may feel like it's like we're a little overly biased. Well, one, we have three tank players on the podcast, but I also think Elsa is one of those heroes that not too good in the lower ranks, but once you start getting really good on her and people who know how to abuse her mobility, this is a really high skill ceiling hero. When you play against a good one, especially as a tank, legit just miserable to deal with. Miserable.
Coach Mills (01:44:08.43)
I mean, she kind of feels like cancer to play against no matter what role you're playing. I'm not gonna lie. Like when I take high ground on anything and Elsa just one taps me or just like forces me down every time with like minimal effort or...
FullMetalLamps (01:44:08.844)
Unbearable.
FullMetalLamps (01:44:13.493)
No, yeah. I mean like triple support.
CaptainCoach (01:44:14.426)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:44:21.048)
Four bullets more is insane. I'm not gonna lie. That is a lot more ammo.
CaptainCoach (01:44:25.837)
and not giving up damage anywhere through lost anchors. Like I think Elsa's kind of flying under the radar might be one of those series you end up banning.
Coach Mills (01:44:33.358)
I think she was already a top three DPS this patch and she's definitely going to be better. Like she was in 8.5.
FullMetalLamps (01:44:33.475)
That's right.
SUPPRESS (01:44:33.7)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:44:36.885)
No, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:44:37.166)
Yeah, she's gonna be insane.
CaptainCoach (01:44:38.915)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:44:39.873)
Like triple support on this on this monster is just fucking Jesus. my don't even please.
SUPPRESS (01:44:41.09)
I'm about to start playing her for sure. I mean she's about to be crazy.
Coach Mills (01:44:45.65)
Yeah, man, man, give her Manta's Ultron is Yeah, it's actually Okay, Hawkeye. So basically what they're doing with Hawkeye is they're making it so that his projectile speed is faster at the base It's 10 meters per second faster and at the ceiling it's 15 and then it also charges up faster Yeah through the maximum fully charged damage the the maximum is the same but the scaling like it does more damage quicker Like you don't have to charge it as much to do
CaptainCoach (01:44:46.223)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:45:14.926)
more damage. And then he has a team up with Luna, right? has the, no, is it Luna? like he has, no, no, no, he has an arrow, Psylocke. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:45:22.581)
It's Silock and the other one I forget the other one.
Coach Mills (01:45:28.97)
I'm not gonna lie, like looking at the Hawkeye, just, still think he's terrible. Like, I don't think.
FullMetalLamps (01:45:32.917)
I yeah, I think he's pretty bad this season or next season. right. Yeah, Cloak and Dagger is his other team up, the one where he just like heals and blinds at the same time.
SUPPRESS (01:45:33.146)
Yeah, he's terrible.
Coach Mills (01:45:35.886)
They didn't make him any more survivable, right?
Coach Mills (01:45:43.778)
yeah, I mean, yeah, like it's just not enough. Like, I mean, like, I think this was an opportunity for them to rework Hawkeye too. Like they did with Black Widow and they kind of missed the mark there. Cause like they obviously don't want this character to be strong cause no one has fun with this character strong, but he's just in a state where he's, he's terrible. Like, and he's been terrible for like three seasons straight. he's just not a very fun character to play against. I don't think in
CaptainCoach (01:45:52.782)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:45:54.062)
Yeah, no w yeah. Yeah. Severely.
FullMetalLamps (01:45:54.231)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:46:04.9)
Yeah, he's bad.
Coach Mills (01:46:12.258)
Yeah, they probably should rework him,
CaptainCoach (01:46:16.025)
I think making the projectile a little easier to hit is something where they're probably gonna let it sit and see what the numbers look like and then decide afterwards if they wanna do a rework like Widow. Because I think he, because it's not a hitscan hero, he's a little maybe more tricky. So they're keeping him weak, but giving him little buff to his just his primary and stuff and seeing how it.
Coach Mills (01:46:35.636)
Right, not as, yeah, consistent probably.
CaptainCoach (01:46:43.585)
I think this is a hero that's probably on rework watch.
SUPPRESS (01:46:47.106)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:46:47.136)
Yeah, I mean it should be. Some of my favorite streamers that I like to watch that are Hawkeye mains. They are struggling so much, sometimes even staying Celestial. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:46:57.607)
yeah, bro. You can't play him. I mean you can't even it's like he's so he doesn't he needs some health, dude. He needs some health.
Coach Mills (01:47:03.098)
Why would like why would you play this character over so many there's so many characters you would rather play against yeah? Hella we're back in season zero like this this feels like serious
FullMetalLamps (01:47:07.031)
Literally zero reason.
SUPPRESS (01:47:07.778)
Yeah. He just gets evaporated, dude. my god. yeah, hold on. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Hold on. I used to play this character a long time ago. I might have to pull it out again, dude. Yeah, I might have to. Seventy Seventy to 80? What?
CaptainCoach (01:47:08.965)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:47:21.698)
Well, well dust them off. Well, well, well, book, the book, you know, the, So yeah. 10 more base, but primary damage. have less fall off. So you're yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:47:33.925)
So that gets.
SUPPRESS (01:47:36.674)
Whoa whoa You can f
CaptainCoach (01:47:36.771)
It gets negated, so the damage boost kind of pretty much negates.
Coach Mills (01:47:39.694)
Yeah, they do remove the damage with the 15 % damages, but the falloff is also not as severe. So instead of 70 at 30 meters, you have 75 damage at 35. So you do have more damage at range than like in conjunction with the other buff.
CaptainCoach (01:47:54.46)
I'm gonna say just for I did the math when I was doing the patch notes It it's about the same amount of damage in the neutral and then that damage boost I believe also applies to her alt but the the bird is really the big buff. That's that's the major change
SUPPRESS (01:47:55.739)
You could like you could fly around like RCX in the bird!
Coach Mills (01:47:59.233)
Okay, yeah, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:48:09.956)
Yeah, the bird is insane.
Coach Mills (01:48:10.594)
Well, you can crow, yeah, it's actually really strong too. Cause you can, you can curve, can curve it around the corners and stuff, but it's like, yeah, you can, you can, you can curve it around corners. You're not flying in a straight line anymore.
SUPPRESS (01:48:16.782)
Yeah, like w-
FullMetalLamps (01:48:16.934)
hell no.
CaptainCoach (01:48:18.883)
Yeah. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:48:20.654)
What is a what is her team up anchor? What is her what does she get for like the team up?
CaptainCoach (01:48:23.099)
It's already hard enough to see.
Her alt puts down squids, no more squids. It's gonna be like 20.
Coach Mills (01:48:29.613)
yeah, if you...
SUPPRESS (01:48:30.114)
Wha What No no no Hell No Hell No Yeah she needs to be banned. I'm playing that character every I mean like what are these characters, bro? This is unbelievable.
FullMetalLamps (01:48:31.299)
Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:48:35.918)
HAHA
CaptainCoach (01:48:37.052)
haha
Coach Mills (01:48:38.971)
and, and she has, what's what's the other, what's the other team up that's good? Venom.
FullMetalLamps (01:48:45.643)
It's it's Venom, I think. And it's just like her her right click her I think it's a night w night sword thorn, whatever. It just becomes like AOE enhanced. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:48:53.9)
What? It becomes a fucking sword?
Coach Mills (01:48:55.156)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:48:58.363)
or well, yeah. Like the five swords do like just more damage than this AOB.
Coach Mills (01:48:59.446)
No, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. And isn't it like the E also does the squid thing, I think, you know, the slow squid thing. But like the thing also about Hela is like the other, I guess the same type of Hiskan, I'll say, which is Cyclops and Jean. We'll talk about Jean in second. Both of them got nerfed with less compensations. So like they're gonna be weaker relative. And Hela also has the most extreme, you know, team ups.
SUPPRESS (01:49:02.232)
yeah.
my god, yeah, bro. What the fuck? What the fuck?
FullMetalLamps (01:49:06.547)
Something like that, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:49:08.283)
SUPPRESS (01:49:17.476)
Yeah.
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:49:26.262)
The Loki team up with Hela is completely busted. It's the one we talked about where you can copy someone in the middle of the fight. Like that's so strong for a number of different reasons. She has the team up with Thor, which is extremely powerful too.
SUPPRESS (01:49:29.506)
Wait yeah yeah yeah.
Yeah what?
SUPPRESS (01:49:36.846)
Yeah, you have to play her with Thor and it's just like season zero, you have to play her with Thor and Loki or you're running it.
Coach Mills (01:49:41.59)
Yeah, yeah, it's even stronger than before Like hella hella. I think she has some other team ups too. Like she triggers quite a few team team ups Like she's she's gonna be very good going forward even in spite of like it doesn't look like she's moving all that much but like the movement plus her just being better than the other options now like the other poke options like
SUPPRESS (01:49:50.522)
That's insane.
FullMetalLamps (01:49:51.061)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:50:02.724)
I mean yeah, she is insane. Wow. Yeah, I don't know why they're buffing her either. That is delusional, but I'm down with it. Ha ha ha Hey Hell my god Yeah, bro my god my god
FullMetalLamps (01:50:07.031)
Like, why are they buffing her? I just don't get it.
Coach Mills (01:50:10.222)
It's cuz it's cuz she has cool team up synergy, bro That's it cuz I forgot the pool the pool team up the pool team Like pull Thor Loki like insane like and that's that's for all three, right? So like
FullMetalLamps (01:50:19.884)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:50:26.752)
Like, like, like,
CaptainCoach (01:50:28.923)
Would you say that Hela's probably one of the weaker poke heroes right now at least though? So this is kind of more bringer in line.
SUPPRESS (01:50:33.662)
yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean this is saving her. Yeah, she wasn't that good.
Coach Mills (01:50:33.942)
Right, yes, yes, yes. She was probably like B tier before, so she's... But I actually think she's gonna be better than Cyclops now. So like, I think she passes him up. So I don't know if that means Cyclops falls a lot or she rises a lot, but like... Like big picture, I think she's gonna be really nice. What do you think Fullmetal?
SUPPRESS (01:50:41.133)
yeah, yeah, easily.
CaptainCoach (01:50:41.378)
I agree.
FullMetalLamps (01:50:54.051)
Hella wasn't even that bad this season. the only reason why people didn't play her is because Cyclops is in the game. Or Punisher with the Rocket or with Gambit was in the game. Or like Phoenix is worse than Hella right now. And Elsa Elsa's always just been good because, you know, her ult is just bright and dead. And yeah, like now with this, Hella's I I would probably put her top one hit scan outside of like Punisher. Yeah. This is
Coach Mills (01:51:07.542)
interesting.
SUPPRESS (01:51:18.148)
Yeah, she might be Yeah, she could be the best. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. She might be the best in the game. It's unbelievable.
Coach Mills (01:51:24.886)
I think she's she's ever gonna be my top three DPS. I think I I don't know. I think we're probably we'll talk about in a second I think we're almost there the Cyclops is or Psylocke. mean, sorry is really strong. We'll talk about that in a second But yeah, definitely we'll revisit hello in a second when we can see the full patch list because I do think At the end of all this I want to I'm gonna ask each of y'all like the the most broken and least broken in each of the rules I want to hear your opinions We'll talk about that like everyone's opinion about like best in slot type stuff.
SUPPRESS (01:51:28.296)
yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:51:52.332)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:51:53.669)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:51:54.518)
So, human torch, okay, 5 % he lost 5 % damage, whatever. I don't- have y'all seen this fucking team up with Invis? Have y'all seen this fucking team up? So, so, Suppressive, you haven't seen it. The, the wall that Invis can place is two times the size. The Invis wall. Can we pull the- let me see if I can pull that up really quick. Invis torch new season 9 team up. Do I have- is there, is there a- here, I'm-
FullMetalLamps (01:52:01.735)
Ha ha ha ha.
SUPPRESS (01:52:04.697)
No.
CaptainCoach (01:52:15.621)
firewall.
FullMetalLamps (01:52:17.505)
Literally a firewall, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:52:22.553)
What?
Coach Mills (01:52:24.374)
find it. I'm gonna find it so you can see it.
CaptainCoach (01:52:25.679)
Honestly, I wasn't too blown away by this one. I thought this one was kind of tame compared to some of the other ones, the torch wall. It looked good. It gets bigger when she's on the team.
Coach Mills (01:52:30.786)
The wall? Or the...
Coach Mills (01:52:36.128)
It amplifies damage when you shoot through it. And it's big as fuck.
CaptainCoach (01:52:40.047)
Okay.
SUPPRESS (01:52:40.538)
That might be insane, yo. Amplifies damage, yeah, that might be deadly.
CaptainCoach (01:52:42.509)
Yeah, that could be good then.
FullMetalLamps (01:52:43.915)
That is branded. apparently apparently the passionats are out for team ups, actually. Like with full numbers and everything.
Coach Mills (01:52:43.982)
I don't know exactly how much damage it amplifies, but it is... So here here here here here
SUPPRESS (01:52:48.119)
My
Coach Mills (01:52:52.142)
we with full numbers. Okay. We can take a look at that if we want to. well, I want to go through the patch notes and then maybe we can look back through that. So, so look, do you see that wall? so what watcher put it on herself. Where's she?
FullMetalLamps (01:52:56.877)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
SUPPRESS (01:53:04.418)
What? No, no, no, no, no, no.
Coach Mills (01:53:10.562)
Yeah, look at that wall.
SUPPRESS (01:53:10.65)
Imagine hella the new hella or the punishers holding an angle with that wall and you get damage boost and they never die. Like, okay.
Coach Mills (01:53:19.58)
And you can put that wall on yourself, too.
SUPPRESS (01:53:21.24)
No no. Yeah, that is insane.
CaptainCoach (01:53:22.017)
Wait, the Punisher gets, the Punisher gets damage boost?
Coach Mills (01:53:24.856)
So yeah, as it goes through, so let me see if I can pull up what he said. Yeah, if you shoot through it, it does damage.
SUPPRESS (01:53:27.118)
Think so.
FullMetalLamps (01:53:29.494)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:53:29.764)
Yeah, I don't that say, dude.
FullMetalLamps (01:53:32.267)
I the copy paste is generate a flame shield for a targeted ally that blocks incoming damage while providing a continuous healing aura, so same as normal. Projectiles from teammates shot through the flame shield receive a damage boost. Enemies that pass through the shield are slowed.
SUPPRESS (01:53:46.99)
What the fuck yeah what the fuck Yeah what are they doing? What the fuck are they thinking dude?
Coach Mills (01:53:49.6)
Yeah, yes!
CaptainCoach (01:53:52.161)
the hyper carry comps.
FullMetalLamps (01:53:58.069)
Invis, Ultron, Mantis, Luna Snowflake, like
CaptainCoach (01:53:58.625)
It's... It's gonna be...
SUPPRESS (01:54:01.646)
Yeah, everyone's about to evaporated.
Coach Mills (01:54:02.798)
But hey, you know what like there are ways to combat it I think like on paper, you know like Yeah, bad So so this is my sleeper of the past me it's not even a fucking sleeper cuz I actually tried this shit Iron man has gamma again. So he got a lot of nerve sear to his spell field damage to his repulsor blast
SUPPRESS (01:54:10.916)
Hopefully. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:54:10.934)
Yeah, ban him.
SUPPRESS (01:54:16.12)
Gotta get technical with the band for sure.
CaptainCoach (01:54:17.179)
Now hyper carry comps are gonna be a thing again.
FullMetalLamps (01:54:23.821)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:54:27.044)
Gamma for.
Coach Mills (01:54:30.914)
The damage from his Uni Beam, like they nerfed him, but the reason they did is because Gamma, it's so fucking strong. Like I didn't really remember how strong it was, but like he got a lot of buffs since Gamma. Like there was a ton of buffs to him since then. He's beaming things so quickly. And remember, he still has that change where if you kill someone, you get more seconds added to your beam. So your Gamma kills very quickly and you get more Gamma seconds.
SUPPRESS (01:54:37.028)
Yeah, that's
SUPPRESS (01:54:42.105)
yeah, it was OP. It was fucking OP.
SUPPRESS (01:54:53.347)
What?
CaptainCoach (01:54:56.167)
And... I th- I think the beam with Thor is longer range too. That's what it looked- Okay. Which is- is game-changing buff, like insane.
SUPPRESS (01:54:56.996)
Dude, what the fuck are they doing?
Coach Mills (01:55:00.718)
It is it is it's it's about 10 more meters. It's about 10 more meters And and it also is five seconds less. So instead of 20 seconds, it's 15 on the cooldown
CaptainCoach (01:55:12.247)
I think they went and took Iron Man.
SUPPRESS (01:55:13.85)
I mean, I'm hype about this. Everything, dude. I'm excited.
Coach Mills (01:55:15.662)
Iron Man is gonna be like really good
CaptainCoach (01:55:18.681)
I think he went from.
SUPPRESS (01:55:19.034)
Every yeah, everyone should be crazy.
CaptainCoach (01:55:21.751)
Yeah, I think Iron Man went straight to
Coach Mills (01:55:22.926)
Iron Man being good is kind of so I think this is a good character to be good and the reason is because dive looks insane Iron Man is actually a character that Might be equipped to deal with dive, you know, cuz he just does so much fucking damage very quickly And he's outside of a lot of the characters range venom cap like they're not gonna be able to zone him away so like I This is
SUPPRESS (01:55:35.236)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:55:43.588)
That is I mean, yeah, Iron Man is gonna be crazy. I'm not gonna lie. With Gamma, he was absurd.
CaptainCoach (01:55:48.123)
Amen.
Coach Mills (01:55:48.162)
Like, like, Cap, Cap, this is the duo we're running by the way. by the way, if you have, if you have a Hulk on your team, when you pop your ultimate, you get a Hulk bubble just automatically. Yeah, you, get a Hulk bubble on your ult. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can't get killed out of your ultimate.
CaptainCoach (01:55:58.475)
yeah, that's insane. Yeah. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:55:58.669)
What? What? So you just are invincible? Yeah, like what the fuck? I bro, Iron Man has to be banned. He just kills every support ult, you can't kill him.
CaptainCoach (01:56:05.775)
Yeah. Iron Man, can't interrupt them.
CaptainCoach (01:56:11.971)
Yeah, he went from F to probably like A or S for sure. think he's S, like honestly.
SUPPRESS (01:56:15.402)
Yeah, like wow. Yeah, bro, all these characters are insane. Wow. Yeah, what the fuck, yo.
Coach Mills (01:56:17.815)
He's very good. It's actually really strong. It's very, very, very strong. What do think, Fullmetal?
FullMetalLamps (01:56:21.827)
yeah, I like that Hulk bubble team up is like insane. Cause now there's like what's the counter play? You just go Magneto?
SUPPRESS (01:56:30.554)
How do you yeah, who do you ban? How do you ban how do you ban all these people?
Coach Mills (01:56:31.834)
Hey, yeah, it's Magneto. Yeah, but like Magneto is definitely gonna be... Like I actually wonder can he even die to Magneto? You know, like if Magneto absorbs his ultimate and throws it back at him, does the bubble protect him from it? Like we need a- that's probably a test thing.
FullMetalLamps (01:56:33.613)
Like
FullMetalLamps (01:56:43.333)
shit. Yeah, like
CaptainCoach (01:56:49.177)
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, you- Everybody says Iron Man counters Penny, but guys gotta remember, Penny got a shield, so she's gonna have to block that. Duh.
FullMetalLamps (01:56:49.367)
That's probably a patch note thing. Yeah, like where it says how much HP it has or how long it lasts.
Coach Mills (01:56:58.742)
No, okay, okay god, I like the the downside like the the reason I could see iron man not being good is because like tank pulls a lot better tank pulls really good at contesting iron man from a from a tank like roll Angela's good Angela's good at contesting iron man. So like Yeah, I mean like like iron man's very strong, but we don't live in the same world where gamma was good like back then there was no Angela back then there was no tank pool like
FullMetalLamps (01:56:59.171)
yeah, exactly. Shields up, man, shields up.
SUPPRESS (01:57:18.378)
True every character is crazy.
SUPPRESS (01:57:26.04)
Yeah, and now we have unlimited ammo and you just throw it out yourself. You don't even have to fucking have anyone near you, just drop it down and beam him down.
Coach Mills (01:57:29.038)
So anyways, well we'll see on this one, but I do think that Iron Man could be enemy I'm gonna I'm gonna cap we're running this duo by the way every game We're running this shit down. I'm just letting you know. All right, okay. It's gonna be it's gonna be sick All right Magic is getting 125 regenerative shield, which is really good on a character like magic kind of similar to Thor where she's in and out of fights But she's also getting just a net 25
SUPPRESS (01:57:40.568)
Yeah, he could be insane.
CaptainCoach (01:57:43.581)
but I'm down. I love playing with Iron Man as this Hulk.
SUPPRESS (01:57:47.61)
Bro, yeah, that should be crazy.
Coach Mills (01:57:59.032)
more HP so she's at 275 now and she has that regenerative yep and she gets the she either gets permanently the strange team up where she gets to tie people together or she gets she gets a team up with the new character which is she gets a demon circle that's the size of fucking Texas
SUPPRESS (01:58:01.528)
Wow, twenty five more is about to be crazy.
SUPPRESS (01:58:11.684)
This is Kenny's season two, Kendrick.
FullMetalLamps (01:58:14.669)
The hood.
SUPPRESS (01:58:17.626)
The hood my god That guy's
Coach Mills (01:58:22.062)
I think this is going to be really good for magic. Regenerative Shield is very good on this character. Very, very good.
SUPPRESS (01:58:25.763)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (01:58:25.783)
Yeah. I don't
FullMetalLamps (01:58:31.339)
And like she already has a hard time dying and they abuffed her like total HP. That'd be crazy.
Coach Mills (01:58:35.658)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:58:36.058)
All right, yeah. Hell yeah.
Coach Mills (01:58:40.994)
definitely gonna be interesting about very strong. She was already like in a reasonable spot, but I think this might push her over the edge like a little bit like back into like meta relevance. She hasn't really been in meta relevance for a while. Okay, so Moon Knight, Crescent Dart does two more damage. His ultimate's a little bit more expensive and then he lost five damage. So it's kind of a net negative and he's gonna have a bit more expensive than ult. He does have some team ups though.
CaptainCoach (01:58:41.197)
Yeah, magic's gonna be crazy. Gonna be crazy.
SUPPRESS (01:58:54.894)
Yeah, this season's really changing shit up.
Coach Mills (01:59:08.926)
Where you he gets to throw his onk and it it pulls people in and drops one like or or three like like like a mini ult Doesn't do a crazy amount of damage though, but it is something you could like combo with your ultimate And then he has one more team up which the dash shield. I'm not gonna lie I think it's I think he's really bad still like I like he got cuz he got nerfed quite a bit last patch And he's been kind of pretty mid
CaptainCoach (01:59:21.839)
Dash heal, he has a dash heal. His look took.
CaptainCoach (01:59:28.315)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:59:33.615)
think Moon Knight's going to be one of the weaker DPS in the game. don't think he got too much. His changes were kind of unimpressive. then I don't think this is like nerfing the ultimate, nerfing his damage. Like Moon Knight's going to be kind of like left in the dust here.
Coach Mills (01:59:46.254)
I gotta ask y'all as like high elo players like... Does anyone like it when Moon Knight's good?
SUPPRESS (01:59:47.844)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (01:59:54.028)
I don't. I think he's brain dead.
FullMetalLamps (01:59:56.739)
Back in like season two where Groot Moon Knight was just every game and I would have to go against I I think it was like BTS, bro. Like
SUPPRESS (02:00:04.27)
Yeah, BTS! He loves Moon Knight. He's like the greatest Moon Knight in the world. You if you ever have to play against him on Moon Knight, you will hate that character.
FullMetalLamps (02:00:11.971)
And it's like the only interaction you have is either block the Groodolt, ban out Grood, or kill the Moon that before he gets his ult off, which is like how often can you do that when he's double pocketed by two supports or whatever, right?
Coach Mills (02:00:24.63)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like us also moving into more dive oriented characters being good. think Moon Knight is just like pretty ill equipped. Like when Psylux are good, Starlords are good. Like I'm surprised that he didn't see bigger buffs here, but I'm kind of fine with it, you know? Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:00:40.105)
I'm okay with it. Yeah. He's like one of those characters that shouldn't be buffed.
SUPPRESS (02:00:43.492)
Yeah, I'm down with her.
Coach Mills (02:00:43.758)
Okay, Phoenix. So Phoenix lost 10 % damage boost. No, compensatory about giving her more damage to take when she took away, but she is getting slightly more damage on the ultimate, you know. But like that's, it's like compensatory for the ultimate, but not compensatory for the rest of her kit. Her right click, her primary. She does have some team ups that are okay, I think. What were the two? One of them is...
FullMetalLamps (02:01:12.067)
She
CaptainCoach (02:01:12.187)
The little thing jumps, it's like AOE damage.
Coach Mills (02:01:13.836)
the jumps. That's, that is nice when enemies are stacked. You know, can get more sparks on people.
FullMetalLamps (02:01:18.421)
Yeah, it it does healing too. And then there's I think it was with Hella where she gets anti heal, like the Namor. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:01:23.641)
That one's insane. That one's really good.
Coach Mills (02:01:23.816)
the Neymar. It's yeah. But I really think that Jean is probably going to feel worse this patch than she did before. Like she I actually I know that people thought she was kind of some people thought she was weak. I thought she was still pretty good last patch. But like, I think she's probably like pretty weak.
CaptainCoach (02:01:40.527)
Mills, I've been talking about this, man. Like all these poke heroes just nerf the damage by like five or 10%. And the game is going to feel a lot better. I think this is exactly what they needed. I know they're going to be doing more damage with the team ups and it's going to even out. But I think relative to the other heroes, this is putting them more in line to where I think it's going to be kind of balanced. Like I don't think she's going to be a super big problem anymore. I really do think this is the type of, this to me feels like a nerf too. Like I actually feel like she's going to be a little weaker.
Coach Mills (02:02:09.358)
I think hella jumps her and cyclops like pretty easily
CaptainCoach (02:02:09.675)
and may be balanced. Yeah. I agree.
FullMetalLamps (02:02:12.897)
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.
Coach Mills (02:02:15.67)
And I'm happy because this character has been fucking too strong for too long for historically. So yeah, it's pretty good.
SUPPRESS (02:02:17.742)
Yeah, I hate this character too. This character's so dumb.
FullMetalLamps (02:02:19.691)
Yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:02:24.141)
Get her out Get her out. Yeah. Mm, maybe.
CaptainCoach (02:02:24.249)
I think she'll still be good though. She'll still be good.
SUPPRESS (02:02:24.442)
Thank God some things are changing.
Coach Mills (02:02:31.212)
Yeah, you don't think so? Lamps?
FullMetalLamps (02:02:34.101)
I mean, i it's just like all these other characters are just so much better, you know.
Coach Mills (02:02:37.994)
Right. Speaking of a better character, Psylocke gets more damage with the psionic crossbow single hit base damage from 12 to 13. A reduction, reduce the base health, but gain 100 regenerative shield. Another character that really loves regenerative shield like a lot. When Emma Frost is selected as a team a partner, you're going to increase the bonus health gain to Cyclops upon hitting an enemy with your wing shurikens from 10 to 15. That's your right click, I believe.
SUPPRESS (02:02:38.275)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:03:07.16)
What? That might be crazier.
Coach Mills (02:03:07.182)
And then cloak and dagger if that's the partner your crossbow single hit base damage goes from 13 to 14. So it's even higher And the Sonic crossbow in which one is that again? I'm pretty sure that's is that the is that the just the left click right? It's a primer, right? Yeah. Yeah This character was already good and now she's better and she has great team ups in the Emma team up which is really good and
SUPPRESS (02:03:20.826)
I think that's just her left click. Her Yeah, yeah, I think that's just her her fire.
FullMetalLamps (02:03:22.819)
I think it's her primary, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
FullMetalLamps (02:03:30.156)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:03:36.408)
There's one more team up that she got. I forgot what it was. The cloak and dagger. yeah, yeah. Cloak and dagger. Yeah. And that cloak and dagger one looks insane by the way. There's some like some fuckery going on with that one. I think this character is going to be like one of the best characters in the game. One of the best DPS in the game. What do you think?
FullMetalLamps (02:03:37.837)
The click and decker one. Yeah. again.
SUPPRESS (02:03:49.622)
yeah. Which also will make Bucky even better because she'd be so good.
Coach Mills (02:03:54.478)
Like maybe they buffed her because it's gonna take you a long time to build her ultimate. And that was a way that she got a lot of value is because she had one of the best ultimates in the DPS roster. But I think that this character is just too good at too many things.
CaptainCoach (02:04:06.587)
Yeah, think given that she'll do a range hero like a pure range hero is just it it's a little better when you it works like that because she she's gonna be able to harass from such a safety and I Don't know if it's if it's based off the damage you deal or take but if it's a damage you deal She could just sit back and be farming that shield constantly, so I'm assuming it's out of combat completely like not damage dealt But you have to not deal damage for that shield to trigger you get what I'm saying
FullMetalLamps (02:04:09.003)
I it's like
Coach Mills (02:04:33.646)
no, so like for the shield to trigger, I'm pretty sure it's just not damage that you take. I'm pretty sure. So let me read it. Insane. yeah, yeah, avoid taking damage for five seconds. Your shield will begin to on. So, but like this is really strong also for like Hulk, right? Because if you jump in and bubble, if as long as you don't take any damage, you can still be gaining health technically during your engages, right? Psylocke is gonna be a little bit different because she can just, like you said, she can just do this stupid.
CaptainCoach (02:04:39.803)
Okay, well then Psylocke's gonna be like S++ gigabusted then if that's how it works. Okay.
SUPPRESS (02:04:43.471)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:04:57.733)
Right.
Coach Mills (02:05:01.998)
You know, peak poke, peak poke thing. And then if she ever gets hit at all, she gets to hide for a little bit and then she's back to full. And then if she ever sees an opening, she gets to go in. Like there are more cooldowns to get through, know, more, you know, but what do you, what do you think Lamps?
CaptainCoach (02:05:04.321)
my god.
It's gonna be so annoying.
FullMetalLamps (02:05:16.963)
Who had netties is like Silicon needs a buff right now. Right?
CaptainCoach (02:05:19.771)
They do that a lot.
Coach Mills (02:05:21.646)
Hey, they've done that with Psylocke a lot like a lot a lot
FullMetalLamps (02:05:25.365)
Like some intern over there is just wearing his Silock plushie on his bag, on his tote bag, drinking some matcha tea and then he's walking and saying, You know what? Let's buff Silock again. Like who who
Coach Mills (02:05:33.262)
No!
CaptainCoach (02:05:33.659)
Hahahaha
SUPPRESS (02:05:33.77)
One hundred percent. One hundred percent.
CaptainCoach (02:05:39.784)
my god.
Coach Mills (02:05:42.752)
It's me. No, that's actually insane. She but like there's been many times in history where Psylocke would be S tier They would give her a small nerf and maybe she'd be a little bit worse and then they'd immediately buffer the next patch and it's like what the fuck? What the fuck? But maybe maybe they think she's a healthy character like the thing about Psylocke that I can understand why they like her to be one of the best characters in the game is because she never runs low elo lobbies like she's too hard for like low elo players to like be efficient at and she's too squishy for them to be efficient at so like
FullMetalLamps (02:05:53.367)
Yeah, yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:05:56.132)
Yeah, I don't know.
Coach Mills (02:06:12.394)
If she's the best character in the game, I think it's a lot healthier than like Psyclobs being the best hero in the game or Elsa being the best hero, even though Elsa got buffed or Torch or whatever. she's, if I had to think of like any DPS to be the best DPS in the game, I think Psylocke is probably the healthiest. I don't know if y'all agree with that. I can't think of one that I would prefer to be better. Like I like it when things are good.
CaptainCoach (02:06:31.671)
a ranged hero with one shot potential, stealth, insane mobility and now has self sustain? I don't know about that, bro. And instant kill ult?
Coach Mills (02:06:36.648)
Well, what else? Well, what would you, who would you rather, who would you rather be meta? the best, if you would depict one DPS to be the best character in the game in the, highest levels, what would it be? Would you rather like, who would you rather have besides Psylocke?
FullMetalLamps (02:06:52.003)
Scarlet Witch.
Coach Mills (02:06:53.614)
But like you gotta understand how strong does that character have to be? You know what I'm saying? Like how strong does that character have to be in a normal elo for that character to be the best?
CaptainCoach (02:06:53.755)
Girl, girl.
FullMetalLamps (02:06:58.177)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:07:01.947)
Honestly? Honestly? Is this gonna sound crazy? I think Cyclops is the most ethical DPS in the game after this patch drops. I think...
FullMetalLamps (02:07:11.617)
I gotta leave the podcast, y'all. I gotta I just gotta go.
Coach Mills (02:07:11.822)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, The thing is like cyclops is he's not hard like he's he's easy to play like relative to silo. He's so much easier to play like like by by orders of magnitude like He was when people are messaging me said hey, were stuck in plat now. They're in, you know grand master on site
CaptainCoach (02:07:15.035)
After the patch drops, he might be the most ethical.
Yes! No hard CC!
Coach Mills (02:07:41.279)
That's not gonna happen or on Cyclops. It's not gonna happen on Psylocke You're not gonna like if if you get to a rank on Psylocke you have 100 % earned that rank I don't care how strong this character is like you've earned it like Because because if you play out of position you fucking die you're 250 HP
CaptainCoach (02:07:52.988)
I'd say she is fake hard. She's such an easy character to play like she she she makes people feel like Thanos when you're like hardly you just have an insane her mobility is instant, bro She's never at risk
Coach Mills (02:07:59.246)
I completely disagree.
Coach Mills (02:08:04.974)
And any top tier Psylocke player can play anything else at a top tier level, in my opinion. Like, you're telling me an Eternity Psylocke player can't hop on the Cyclops?
SUPPRESS (02:08:20.074)
Anyone can hop on the cyclops soon?
CaptainCoach (02:08:20.205)
I'm saying Cyclops is more balanced. I'm saying Cyclops is more balanced.
Coach Mills (02:08:20.718)
That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Like, I'm not saying that this character isn't completely absurd and insane, but I'm just saying, like, if you had to pick one character to be the she's like the tracer of this game. Like, if you have to pick one character to be the best, you would rather be her than something else.
FullMetalLamps (02:08:34.626)
Well
So I mean I just took a list at all look at look at the list of all the DPS heroes. I'm like, none of these guys are honest. They're all they're all brand new. But but nah, I don't like if I had to choose one, maybe fantastic just because of how much work you have to put into it. But Star Lord I would like someone's saying Star Lord, right? 'Cause they play Star Lord. Star Lord's actually like the true tracer, you know, one on one at the end of the game.
Coach Mills (02:08:43.374)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're all fools! Cycle and uh...
CaptainCoach (02:08:44.587)
I know, right? That's what I'm saying. Cyclops is ethical!
Coach Mills (02:08:54.179)
LOL
CaptainCoach (02:08:55.254)
Nah.
Coach Mills (02:09:03.81)
Well, I mean, Star-Lord is similar to Psyc- Psylocke.
CaptainCoach (02:09:06.521)
He's harder than Psylocke. In my opinion. Star-Lord's way harder than Psylocke. Like the movement for him?
FullMetalLamps (02:09:10.891)
I I think I think he's a little bit harder and but I think he just has too much going for him that I can't call him like honest or fair. Like they buff his range, they buff his damage, his ammo, they give him overshield, they have him i iframes, he has free flight, infinite ammo, auto aim.
CaptainCoach (02:09:19.515)
I agree.
Coach Mills (02:09:24.492)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not even talking about like what feels fair or not. I'm just talking about like if we're thinking about the health of the state of the game, I think this game is healthier when something like Salak is the best character in the world. When it's in the game, rather than Elsa, rather than Moon Knight, rather than Bucky, rather than Namor, if those characters are the best characters in the game, I think that you're probably in a fucked meta.
CaptainCoach (02:09:50.779)
her alt is point clear, like there's just no way. just can't, I just disagree at a fundamental level.
Coach Mills (02:09:53.504)
Like you like think about it has Psylocke ever been the best DPS in the game in a triple support meta It hasn't happened once you don't play Psylocke in triple support medas in in the worst minutes in the game where it's Mantis Ultron pocket a DPS. It's never Psylocke Right, it never once it's not like you would you rather play against Mantis Ultron Elsa or a Psylocke to to to come?
CaptainCoach (02:10:09.499)
Mmm.
FullMetalLamps (02:10:10.552)
The
CaptainCoach (02:10:15.097)
Nah, mean when her alt was buffed you could do...
SUPPRESS (02:10:16.484)
I would rather just get on Bucky and Killer!
Coach Mills (02:10:18.699)
Hey, well, that's it but you you feel like you have counterplay right on bucky like against sila you can you can win
SUPPRESS (02:10:24.164)
Yeah, no, for sure. I yeah, compared like I honestly hate playing a triple sport. I would way rather have Psilock be like crazy and then just grab her on Bucky. Like she is crazy and it isn't easy, but like if you're dialed in, you definitely could shut her down on Bucky. And maybe that's about it, but Bucky Namor, Iron Man, and then I mean wish wish you luck for the rest.
Coach Mills (02:10:47.126)
I like think about all the meds that we've ever had what is one better meta than you think and it's not like I'm just curious of your opinion I know we're kind of going off on a tangent But I don't even play select like that like I'm terrible at this character and this character is a terrorist for me like to play into I understand but like I just I think that she she's probably like the best of the worst options like like
CaptainCoach (02:10:54.554)
well I-
FullMetalLamps (02:10:55.403)
No.
CaptainCoach (02:10:58.683)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (02:11:06.811)
Well you mentioned the more, I think the bubble for instance is a way more visually clear and counterable mechanic. Like okay, the more bubble is down, I have a 25 or whatever 30 second window where I can probably kill him. I don't feel that way with Cyc. Like if she uses her cooldowns correctly, she's pretty much untouchable.
Coach Mills (02:11:22.68)
I also...
SUPPRESS (02:11:27.128)
Yeah, no, depending on the character you can't kill her.
Coach Mills (02:11:27.362)
Whoa, I mean, but like, but I'm talking about like a Namor meta, like we've only been in a Namor meta one time. It was a Namor Bucky group meta and it was, it was terrible. In my opinion, it was terrible.
FullMetalLamps (02:11:36.747)
Yeah. the the only time I I think like I enjoyed the meta was season zero 'cause you only had to ban hell you just had to ban Hella and Hawkeye and like every game was like you could do whatever. Back in season zero. But like after that it's like I don't want to play into Emma, I wanna play into Torch, I wanna play into Ultron, I wanna play into Devil Dino, I don't wanna play into D Daredevil. Like I 'cause
CaptainCoach (02:11:38.479)
Gamma Squid, Helen Amore.
Coach Mills (02:11:44.802)
Hell and no more was terrible too.
Coach Mills (02:11:52.312)
Great.
CaptainCoach (02:11:52.354)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:12:01.923)
Is Spider-Man the most ethical DPS then?
Coach Mills (02:12:04.856)
Yeah, no, no
FullMetalLamps (02:12:05.505)
His hi his webs no, his fucking his kidnap is like I can't deal with that.
Coach Mills (02:12:10.446)
Well, the only time he's ever been like best here is when he had the venom team up, right? And he was just like really simple and easy and killing. I mean, he has it again. We'll talk about it in a second, but.
CaptainCoach (02:12:15.993)
Yeah, that one was nuts.
Does he get the iFrame still that he had when they added it in the later patch?
Coach Mills (02:12:24.526)
And, okay, let me clarify my point so I don't get roasted in the comments, okay. I do agree with you, Captain Coach, that Psylocke is like a nightmare to play with. And I do think that there are arguments to make her worse. I just think that she, like, she could still be the best at the DPS without being that strong. Like, I guess it's more of about the power level of other things. Like, when things come out and they're just like Jean Grey, Elsa, these characters that are stronger than her.
FullMetalLamps (02:12:25.667)
I would imagine so. That's kinda the whole point of the team up.
Coach Mills (02:12:53.58)
then you know you really have a problem in the meta, in my opinion. then things are fucked when Elsa is too strong, like, or whatever.
CaptainCoach (02:12:57.187)
I get what you're saying. She requires a acquired play style that's unique in design, which I respect. That being said, I still think that, was toxic the right word? It's just, she's almost like too, she's so good that she doesn't have to play that way. It's just the best way to play.
Coach Mills (02:13:15.544)
She's like a gnat. She's a gnat. She's a gnat.
FullMetalLamps (02:13:22.56)
CaptainCoach (02:13:22.937)
Like if she was bouncing around only being able to play that way, I, I feel like on Psylocke for instance, there's been meadows where you can just.
Coach Mills (02:13:27.97)
They had to nerf her ult, right? They would have to change her ult, most likely, and then she couldn't play that way. She'd have to be more...
CaptainCoach (02:13:31.227)
Like you can farm tanks on here, you don't always have to just farm backline. She's like super versatile in like who she's able to attack. Like, Suppress, when you're on Punny, how often do you look and see diving backline as like a viable option? I feel like Psylocke can just do whatever she wants when she wants. I feel like there's more thought that goes into other heroes when you're looking for those types of plays.
Coach Mills (02:13:40.503)
Right.
SUPPRESS (02:13:56.71)
Yeah, no, I mean Silock definitely is like an unbelievable character where you could get away with like just like hiding around the corner and then you could go invisible. Like on Punisher, it's definitely a lot harder to like get away with shit. But like I don't know. I mean Silock is honestly unbelievable. I feel like she gets shut down by like Bucky if you're playing really good and like a couple of characters, but other than that, like if you're not on those few characters
Coach Mills (02:13:59.263)
So,
SUPPRESS (02:14:24.442)
She will just run you down the whole time. There's not really anything you could do about it.
CaptainCoach (02:14:29.721)
Who's your DPS then as like the gold standard for most balanced, like fair to play against then? Since we've said ours.
SUPPRESS (02:14:37.274)
right now you think? Or just like overall? Like on this new patch?
CaptainCoach (02:14:41.209)
Well, I think like once
Coach Mills (02:14:42.156)
Like if you could pick the meta, like not just for your individual picks, but like what do you think is the most healthy as the best TPS?
SUPPRESS (02:14:52.698)
Probably like realistically it would be like whatever's the easiest characters to play, like Punisher. I think that these people are like I don't know, like the average player base, if they're playing like these easier like aimer characters, like I think h it's fine for like Hella, like Punisher, like they're going in a a good direction, I feel like. Like all these characters are OP. I would like for Elsa to not be as OP, but I mean I'll just
player if she's that deadly. but it really seems like all the characters are like insane. Like every character in its own way is insane. So there's not really like Cyclo Psylock does look crazy, but at the same time like Punisher has unlimited ammo in his pocket. Bucky has an extra three bullets, like Iron Man has the gamma team up. Like everybody has got these unbelievable things.
Where yeah, Silock is crazy, but like I feel like every character on this new patch is gonna be unbelievable. If you're good at that character, it doesn't really matter.
FullMetalLamps (02:16:00.427)
I maybe Storm because she relies on their team.
SUPPRESS (02:16:03.69)
yeah, like a couple. A couple characters, sure, but like the majority.
Coach Mills (02:16:06.894)
Wait, you're saying Storm is bad or you're saying Storm is your optimal?
FullMetalLamps (02:16:08.897)
No n I'm saying like maybe maybe like playing Storm and Mag having her be meta, not in the Jeff Nado way, right? But like
SUPPRESS (02:16:11.374)
She might be bad.
Coach Mills (02:16:17.848)
I was like, she's been meta and it's been terrible. I don't know. It's she's been better twice. She's been better two times. And they were both really bad. If you remember.
CaptainCoach (02:16:21.507)
Yeah, I'm not sure I, like the, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
FullMetalLamps (02:16:21.951)
Yeah. So I I I those medals were only bad because of her hold. Right. If they just don't give her Jeff NATO, which she does have now, right? But like I I think a team oriented DPS like that might be a little bit more healthy or honest, maybe.
Coach Mills (02:16:39.426)
Well the problem is, let's say you got rid of her ult and you made her good enough at the team oriented stuff to be the best DPS in the world. She would have to be so good at that that it would be like goats or some shit. It would have to be something like, cause you're saying like even without the thing that she used to win a lot of team fights, if she didn't have that, what would she have to have? Would she have to be like 400 HP or give speed boost like 30 % or some shit? What would she have to give?
FullMetalLamps (02:16:51.147)
Mm.
FullMetalLamps (02:17:00.909)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:17:07.101)
I'm not sure. I think that's kinda like we're kinda at this roadblock because DPS are just so fucking brain made.
Coach Mills (02:17:11.47)
Like a bit, like I guess, yeah, like they all fuck it's like, well like that's why I'm trying to give the devs a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, like as little as possible, but it's just like, if you want to make one character good, like Psylocke is a safe one because sub grand master players, they're not going to get run down by this character. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe Smurfs, but like the character is not like,
SUPPRESS (02:17:17.54)
Yeah, they're all insane, dude.
FullMetalLamps (02:17:21.154)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:17:37.688)
Like I would even say Psylocke is harder to get value with for like a lower ranked player than like a panther is. Like I think panther is far easier to get like a certain level of baseline value than Psylocke is.
CaptainCoach (02:17:47.483)
I think her ceiling is too much higher than her floor, whereas someone like Cyclops, dodgeable ultimate Cyclops's auto aim. mean, Cyclops doesn't have hard CC, but the stealth, I just think with the hard CC that a lot of these poke heroes have, that Cyclops has the most, and his primary is easier to aim.
SUPPRESS (02:17:47.897)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:18:04.366)
I'm surprised that you like Cyclops this much.
CaptainCoach (02:18:08.923)
I'm saying once the changes go through, he's clearly overtuned, clearly. Once they go through, I actually think he'll be like in a pretty good spot. one of the-
Coach Mills (02:18:12.885)
well, yeah. Well, I don't think he will. He won't be stronger than these characters, probably most likely.
CaptainCoach (02:18:18.703)
But that's how we should be though, these changes to Cyclops I think are actually really good. And I think if they can take, because they're nerfing them, kinda.
SUPPRESS (02:18:24.27)
Yeah, I like
Coach Mills (02:18:24.616)
yeah, okay. I'm still afraid though, cause he could like the, problem with Cyclops is that he is a triple support bot. Like you could just give him Mantis damage boost and Ultron drone and he's just this like terrorist. Like maybe in a world where they couldn't do that. I hate, I personally hate that comp. I think it's so boring. I probably complained about it too much.
SUPPRESS (02:18:43.521)
It is superborn.
CaptainCoach (02:18:45.369)
Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, not as big of a reliance on healers does kind of... Yeah, I mean, it's tough. It's tough to say for sure. It does have to do with power levels a lot and like synergies and... I hate hyper carry comps. I don't know how you guys feel. I hate comps that you just make one hero just like God tier, gigabusted and just run the lobby.
FullMetalLamps (02:19:00.353)
No, yeah, it's terrible.
SUPPRESS (02:19:02.286)
Yeah, they're born. Really born.
Coach Mills (02:19:03.97)
Yeah, and it's weird because it's like, I don't really blame Cyclops for it. Like, it's not his fault. It's just like, in a world where Mantis doesn't do what she does and Ultron doesn't do what he does, like, I think Cyclops is a fair and honest DPS. But, I don't know. Maybe there's a way to make those really good. maybe Cyclops, if Mantis is banned, I would agree. Cyclops,
FullMetalLamps (02:19:14.551)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:19:15.972)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:19:19.813)
Yeah, that's a good point.
SUPPRESS (02:19:20.004)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:19:31.265)
Okay. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:19:32.844)
Okay, let's let's move on to scarlet witch so scarlet witch now she can dark seal while she's invisible but then it will cancel the invisible what the fuck is dark seal again? Is it like the
SUPPRESS (02:19:43.438)
I leave it now.
CaptainCoach (02:19:44.121)
And then her stun, her AOE stun, she can cast it.
SUPPRESS (02:19:46.382)
Well
Coach Mills (02:19:46.978)
Like, what does this character even do? Like, has anyone actually played this character?
FullMetalLamps (02:19:48.897)
No one knows. I was I was literally gonna say, I'm just gonna go to the bathroom now 'cause I don't give a fuck about Scarlet Witch. Y'all can say whatever you want and I would just agree.
CaptainCoach (02:19:49.529)
Hehehehehe
SUPPRESS (02:19:54.116)
Mm.
Coach Mills (02:19:54.158)
I'm not gonna lie like it's completely irrelevant. Can we move on like?
FullMetalLamps (02:19:58.096)
Listen let's just go next, go next. Yeah, fuck all the like two Scarlet Witch mains, you like y'all can suck it.
SUPPRESS (02:19:58.745)
Yeah, I don't know, bro. Let's go.
CaptainCoach (02:19:59.44)
Huh.
Coach Mills (02:20:05.118)
They should overwork this character anyways moving on. that's actually funny No, like yeah, I really I really do Yeah, yeah Yeah, Fullmetal lamps is getting about as much value as the scarlet witch does like, know, like the same About of value. i'm sorry. I'm sorry to the two scarlet witch players that watch the pod. Yeah, sorry, star lord So he doesn't
CaptainCoach (02:20:09.435)
Bro just uses mystic projection IRL
SUPPRESS (02:20:28.325)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:20:32.463)
Wait, we're actually skipping her? We're not gonna look into the ability? I thought you were gonna check. I wanted to get my thoughts. All right, fine.
Coach Mills (02:20:33.62)
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, So he So he when he flips the stellar shift is his flip yeah, so his flip he doesn't get the HP back This is actually cool cuz I I hated the fact that he just got free HP for flipping for no reason
SUPPRESS (02:20:41.006)
What are the Star Lord abilities? Let's move on, yeah. What does Star Lord have?
CaptainCoach (02:20:46.459)
I tried, I tried commenters, I'm sorry, I tried.
SUPPRESS (02:20:57.028)
yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that was I'm not gonna lie.
Coach Mills (02:21:03.054)
But now he gets just free HP. He has 100 % regenerative, which once again, he's gonna use this really well, but I think that it's nice that he did lose the Stella ship. have you seen the Adam team up with this guy? Completely busted, completely busted. So he gets to throw it on the ground and it's like.
SUPPRESS (02:21:07.857)
my god Yeah the regen.
SUPPRESS (02:21:15.49)
No, no, what are the team ops or the Wait the the life? The third the other life? my god, wait, I don't know about this. Yeah, the other life, yeah. No way.
Coach Mills (02:21:23.822)
Yeah, the other life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so he throws it on the ground and he could teleport to it Just like with the the rocket thing and then if he ever dies he gets to come back alive I don't know if you're hearing the rant. no, you're not. All right lamps. We're we're bitching about the
SUPPRESS (02:21:34.188)
No he c yeah it's former bro
FullMetalLamps (02:21:37.507)
I hate Starlord. Nerf this character to the ground. Fuck out of Morlock Riz.
SUPPRESS (02:21:39.252)
No, he gets another life! He gets he gets that OG Yeah bro. Bro WHAT? He gets another life?
Coach Mills (02:21:43.53)
I can't believe they did that. They gave him another life. Like, Star-Lord ad... Like, we already know how good Rezcomp was historically. Yes. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:21:44.997)
This is my top man.
Top Ben here.
SUPPRESS (02:21:53.284)
Bro, back in the day, this was like season zero, bro. I thought they removed this instantly. You got another life. And you needed Mantis. You needed the triple. Now you don't even need it.
Coach Mills (02:21:56.782)
But, and this is the thing, and you already get, you already get the teleport too, so it's like, you only get the extra life if you fuck up and die somehow.
SUPPRESS (02:22:08.09)
So if you die then you then you get revived and if you don't then you could keep teleporting? You're invincible? Okay. I mean I'm down to that. All these characters I could play Like they're unbelievably OP, dude.
Coach Mills (02:22:12.044)
Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:22:24.302)
It's actually, it's actually absurd. It's actually, I don't even know what to say.
FullMetalLamps (02:22:24.459)
S someone's gotta be fired. I'm like
CaptainCoach (02:22:24.603)
I
SUPPRESS (02:22:28.536)
Yeah, this is this is insane, dude.
Coach Mills (02:22:32.014)
It's fine, but like once again, I think they want Starlo to be broken just like Psylocke like I don't know like they have an obsession with these type of characters He's like he's like poke off angling mobility characters. They love them
CaptainCoach (02:22:33.211)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:22:39.778)
I'm down with it, I guess.
SUPPRESS (02:22:44.623)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:22:44.813)
I'm telling you though, the reason they removed that bonus health is because when they were initially adding that bonus health to people like Star Lord and then to Iron Man and they started adding them to all the DPS. Remember what I was saying back then, Mills? I said it was a response to making the DPS less reliant on the healers because they gave them their own survivability and what we were finding was it just made them way too OP. So at least they're taking it away when they're giving them this passive healing. They're kind of pushing people into certain play styles. They want you to go on a side flank to get the most value.
Coach Mills (02:23:14.488)
Which is what you should have been doing before, but people didn't really know, right? Exactly what we were talking
CaptainCoach (02:23:16.283)
Right. And then now they're going to be able to balance it. So I think coming down the road, would expect, hopefully, that this hero probably gets nerfed. Maybe the 50 clip goes back down to 40, you know?
SUPPRESS (02:23:30.65)
Fifty of the fifty clip. He didn't even have that back in the day, dude. Now he's got another life he can teleport the fifty. Now they have lost their fucking mind.
Coach Mills (02:23:31.722)
Yeah, they got the 50 clear still.
CaptainCoach (02:23:31.738)
Ha ha ha.
Hahaha
Coach Mills (02:23:36.365)
Ha ha!
CaptainCoach (02:23:39.941)
Ha ha ha ha.
Yeah, Star-Lord to me is my top band coming up. My top band.
SUPPRESS (02:23:45.88)
Yeah, he pr yeah, all these characters are just the bass.
Coach Mills (02:23:47.27)
What do you think, Lambs? How do you feel about all this?
FullMetalLamps (02:23:50.677)
Y yeah, it's just the same I like like there's just genuinely nothing to say. Like, why are we just perma buffing this character?
Coach Mills (02:23:56.532)
CaptainCoach (02:23:57.307)
Yeah
FullMetalLamps (02:23:59.265)
Jesus.
CaptainCoach (02:24:00.205)
Rez comp 50, it's just rocket teleporters is like, my God.
FullMetalLamps (02:24:03.517)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:24:04.588)
I mean wow, dude. Wow.
Coach Mills (02:24:06.946)
So Storm's primary gets five more damage, but it's offset but Which is gonna be a net negative to her ult, but she also gets some powerful team ups including the ability to With Jeff she gets to heal with rain and then she has I I I don't think so. I don't think this character is good. I wish it. I wish it was good enough
FullMetalLamps (02:24:19.757)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (02:24:19.907)
She's gotta be better, right?
FullMetalLamps (02:24:26.206)
I don't think it's enough, you know.
CaptainCoach (02:24:26.522)
No.
Coach Mills (02:24:30.91)
If instead of a heal rain ability they gave her another active state of like an AoE rain heal permanently to her team or something like that then you could see her played as a support but as just an ability it is nice but like the problem with Storm is that she's just this slow little dirty person that just dies like she's she does anything and she dies she's gonna die to punish her like in two seconds just out of position
FullMetalLamps (02:24:39.979)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (02:24:54.904)
But she also dies to Bucky, she also dies to Namor, she also dies to Cyclops and Psylocke and Star-Lord and every fucking character. Like they all just kill her. Like how does she survive? She doesn't survive ever.
FullMetalLamps (02:25:02.328)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:25:06.702)
That's the only time you ever see her played is against bunker comps in like triple DPS because there's nothing that can actually shoot at her. That's the only time she's ever played because she's really good in those comps but she's never played any other time.
FullMetalLamps (02:25:17.859)
She she just doesn't do her niche well enough, is the thing. Like I'd rather a mantis who can crit w on like in base and just damage boost everybody and like heal everybody than a storm who like occasionally heals and then can maybe crit but can't heal at the same time or can heal but can't crit at the same time, right?
Coach Mills (02:25:34.958)
I agree. Similar to Hawkeye, where they realized that they couldn't make that character too strong. I think they ran into the same problem with Storm, because we did run into some Storm edits. I think that this was a character they could have reworked to a support. I would actually love a Storm support. I don't know how y'all feel about that, but one centered around, instead of damage, one centered around speed and healing as the two different things you could give to your team in an aura form.
FullMetalLamps (02:25:51.079)
Mm, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:26:00.93)
And then like her just sitting on like sitting with her team like actually makes sense. Cause like, like she's, she doesn't need to be like this crazy product. I don't know. I don't think she's good enough.
FullMetalLamps (02:26:05.367)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:26:09.295)
I think that Lunafree, well, I mean, we'll get to it. The one that they gave the cloak that could have given to Storm as some kind of defensive tool, that ice block ability, which is insane by the way, we'll get to it. yeah, I kind of agree. wanted to see, I mean, I liked the healing rain thing. I think it's a cool idea. It's 15 second cool down, lasts a decent amount of time. Like it's gonna be like a pretty strong ability, but it's yeah, it's like kind of putting her as like this utility hero and it's...
Coach Mills (02:26:28.79)
It's cool.
CaptainCoach (02:26:36.059)
It kind of begs the question with heroes like Star-Lord and Psylocke around with the regenerative shield who don't even need help, is it really gonna be worth it to take this hero? Probably not.
FullMetalLamps (02:26:44.865)
Yeah, I can agree with that.
Coach Mills (02:26:45.838)
Yeah, that's fair. That's unfortunate. Okay, uh, another character that doesn't really matter. No, I'm just kidding. Let's talk about the Punisher. Uh, um, so yeah, so his primary
CaptainCoach (02:26:53.498)
haha
SUPPRESS (02:26:54.648)
Wait, is that they ga they w made his shotgun go down point five for damage? Point five? Not even one?
Coach Mills (02:27:00.68)
Yeah So the thing is the thing is so yeah, he only gets those nerves if you have the rocket team up So the broken rocket team up you get those nerves, but you get a broken rocket team up If you pick daredevil you still have the you don't get the nerve
SUPPRESS (02:27:12.356)
But even then, what type of nerf is that? Point five. What the fuck are they smoking dude? That is unbelievable. Why even like change it? Like point five is unacceptable, dude. Like that's actually not okay. The shotgun is the most broken part.
Coach Mills (02:27:19.678)
Hehehehehe
CaptainCoach (02:27:24.025)
Ha ha ha!
Coach Mills (02:27:25.97)
hahahaha
CaptainCoach (02:27:27.75)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Coach Mills (02:27:29.43)
They- I think they realized they looked at the Daredevil Timo. They looked at the Daredevil Timo and they're like, yeah, this is not as anywhere near as good as the rocket one. So let's find a way to make it-
CaptainCoach (02:27:41.263)
This is a PR change. This for sure.
SUPPRESS (02:27:41.998)
Yeah, a little bit a little bit worse. I mean, alright, dude. I'm ready to show why that point five is gonna be a problem.
FullMetalLamps (02:27:42.389)
That there's yeah, they're like
FullMetalLamps (02:27:47.699)
And
Coach Mills (02:27:51.47)
I think 0.5 is massive. What do you all think guys? 0.5? No? It's not like a huge change or no?
CaptainCoach (02:27:52.517)
Hehehe... Ha ha ha...
FullMetalLamps (02:27:52.911)
Mm.
SUPPRESS (02:27:57.871)
Hey, I mean that's that's a huge that's a huge nerf. I think he needs a buff of point five. He needs to be b bumped back to ten.
Coach Mills (02:28:03.288)
I... okay.
FullMetalLamps (02:28:04.822)
yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:28:07.619)
What?
Coach Mills (02:28:07.732)
Okay, all right now we finally gotten to like the most like this most skillful role the role with the the best players. okay no, no, we love we love our support players. no, just kidding. I don't need you anymore. I got passive heal. Fuck y'all. No, it's okay. Okay. that's actually interesting captain coach who you're gonna yell at they're gonna say just
FullMetalLamps (02:28:08.023)
Yes, it does.
SUPPRESS (02:28:10.244)
Two seventy five.
FullMetalLamps (02:28:15.233)
I love support players.
SUPPRESS (02:28:16.206)
Yeah, this is where I'm going to the bathroom, bro. I'm taking my chance.
CaptainCoach (02:28:21.15)
That's where I'm sitting up in my chair.
FullMetalLamps (02:28:22.667)
Yeah. I'm I'm ready.
CaptainCoach (02:28:25.339)
Uhhh
Coach Mills (02:28:37.144)
Play behind cover, get your own fucking healing now.
CaptainCoach (02:28:39.609)
Well now I'm gonna yell at them half as much because half of my health bar gets healed up on its own So it's like they've solved the... they've cut down the problem in half We got a ways to go
Coach Mills (02:28:43.662)
Oh yeah, hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey So once it wants your entire health bar is just the fucking shield health Okay, so Adam warlock 25 HP better Cosmic cluster now does three less damage per hit but when you're paired with Ultron you can You can right click your teammates to heal them
CaptainCoach (02:28:52.987)
Where's half of my healing?
Coach Mills (02:29:13.582)
You also get more ammo when you're with Ultron. You have a higher ammo capacity. And then you have a team up with... Someone else? I don't remember who the one is.
FullMetalLamps (02:29:25.291)
What was the other team up? Luna, no? No.
Coach Mills (02:29:27.764)
No, Luda has to team up with her.
CaptainCoach (02:29:27.995)
Doesn't his primary attack heal like a primary healer does now or am I correct? I miss?
Coach Mills (02:29:33.782)
No, that's the Ultron one. I think it's his alternate fire. I don't know if it's... I think it's only his alternate or is it both?
FullMetalLamps (02:29:40.303)
I think it's his his alternate fire, yeah. his storm, his storm team up.
Coach Mills (02:29:42.295)
his alternate heals.
CaptainCoach (02:29:42.553)
He can main heal now, right?
Coach Mills (02:29:47.143)
CaptainCoach (02:29:47.672)
I thought that was a movement speed on Soulbond.
FullMetalLamps (02:29:49.763)
there's some movement speed on Solba and then there's a some other effect that I just couldn't figure out from the trailer.
Coach Mills (02:29:51.126)
Yeah, that one was not that crazy.
CaptainCoach (02:29:56.005)
From what I saw, looks like Adam can function as a main healer if he needs to through just the spam on his, like he doesn't have to use his ability now to heal. He has another way. I think that's what it was, but I didn't know for sure. Cause if so, that's game changing. Like that completely.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:03.81)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:30:09.74)
Well, yeah, because it's like the alternate that he can kind of spam. He can use that as healing now. You can just tap it. Yeah, it's very, very good. I mean, it gives him more ways to get value outside of just using his Pax and his Soulbond. Because like that was like, that's kind of his problem. He runs low on Pax, he runs low on Soulbond. He doesn't have anywhere to heal, but like you can just keep healing your team. And he has more HP. Like he's already really good at taking off angles.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:15.021)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:30:15.161)
Yeah, that's crazy buff.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:31.416)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:35.799)
Yeah. Self res
CaptainCoach (02:30:37.685)
I think Adam's gonna be one of the best heroes in the game now. I think that's how good he's gonna be.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:42.37)
Really?
Coach Mills (02:30:42.402)
You think it's that bad? Well, you have to pair him with Ultron to get or will know if you want the more ammo, which you really do want the more ammo. You really want the more ammo when you're doing this play style, but maybe him in triple.
CaptainCoach (02:30:49.978)
Or yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:30:54.303)
I I think he's gonna I think his storm team up is gonna be better than the Ultron team up, to be honest. I think that movement speed apparently it's on his neutral also, without without the soul bond. So I think that might be more valuable than just like right click healing, because at that point just get another support and just run triple support gomp.
CaptainCoach (02:31:08.858)
Yes
CaptainCoach (02:31:15.919)
That's a good point, yeah. I mean, if he's outclassed by other healers, he still won't actually get into the meta like another... But I think he's just gonna be so good at so many different things to where he's not gonna have those weaknesses anymore, that all those buffs they gave him previously are probably just gonna be too much, is kind of where I'm at with it.
FullMetalLamps (02:31:22.242)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (02:31:32.173)
Maybe.
Coach Mills (02:31:32.866)
Like with Adam being this mobile, his ability to res himself this mobile, this much HP, like we talked about like comps that don't require a lot of healing are possible. I think he could fit into one of those as a two, like a duo support. Like you have enough healing now where you can keep people alive, but like you can also like play him pretty, like I feel like you could play him in a dive comp. I'm not a hundred percent sure. We'll have to see on this guy. I don't know.
CaptainCoach (02:31:35.981)
Mm-hmm.
FullMetalLamps (02:31:45.655)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:31:46.03)
I think so too.
CaptainCoach (02:31:59.002)
I think you'll be able to one trick this hero and not have your teammates yell at you anymore if you're good. I think that's the chat of warlocks are rejoicing right now.
Coach Mills (02:32:02.71)
Hehehehehe
FullMetalLamps (02:32:04.098)
Yeah.
Yeah, tha that's another thing, like with this update. Like last season people had asked me, like, should I learn Thor to climb? I like, Why would you ever learn Thor? That character is terrible. But now you can like actually reasonably you say, like, well if you want a one trick Thor, go ahead. And again that's it it's it's good for the game, but also why would I want to ever see a Thor on the enemy team? I don't want to see that shit. So let's just keep Thor let's keep Thor actually like F tier, not you know, Thor agenda.
Coach Mills (02:32:20.008)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:32:23.429)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:32:29.698)
How are you, how you?
CaptainCoach (02:32:30.779)
Meh.
Coach Mills (02:32:34.346)
No, no, no, no, no, no, that's main baby. Hey, your Angela's better. Let my Thor be better, okay?
CaptainCoach (02:32:35.501)
Next chains.
FullMetalLamps (02:32:39.643)
Listen, that's what I don't want Angela to be buffed either. That's my thing. People say like Angela and Penny are cancer. I agree. So let's keep them like at a at a area where they're not that good.
Coach Mills (02:32:47.278)
Well Thor, in my opinion Thor was like probably the worst tank in the game like before this But they might have jumped him up way too high though like he's very good now and he like I almost am never a fan when they take a character that is like they jump him up like three tiers Like jump him up one at a time Like don't way overshot it. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe this is like a special case so like they could probably fix it after this but
FullMetalLamps (02:32:51.883)
No, he he was bad. No, for sure.
FullMetalLamps (02:32:57.229)
Yeah,
FullMetalLamps (02:33:04.653)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:33:13.76)
I do know that lower ranked players are going to be crashing out about Thor very quickly because he's already good.
CaptainCoach (02:33:17.915)
I think that the next, oh sorry, the next obvious change I think now is going to just be giving everybody their own band. Five bands per team, everybody gets their own band. Just so everyone gets at least one and then you pick three and whatever your top one is and then it would go down the list. I think that's the next change everyone's gonna be asking for here in a week or two. I'm calling it now.
FullMetalLamps (02:33:26.955)
Mm.
Coach Mills (02:33:27.982)
Hey!
Coach Mills (02:33:33.774)
You don't need to ban anything, you just need to do your broken shit better than them. Like, just be more...
FullMetalLamps (02:33:39.117)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:33:43.087)
True, true.
FullMetalLamps (02:33:43.787)
What if it was like one sided bands like Ignite?
Coach Mills (02:33:47.276)
They should eventually implement Ignite bands in Celestial plus lobbies, in my opinion. Maybe GM plus lobbies. I know it would take longer. I think we talked about this with Trust Me. It's like, why is ranked not reflective of pro play? Rank should be reflective of pro play. So let's do it. Let's do it in ranked. Let's mirror the bands. Pro play and high ranked play should be the exact same. And then that's another thing. Once you get to gold, you get normal bands.
FullMetalLamps (02:33:56.739)
Cause
FullMetalLamps (02:34:03.453)
yeah.
Coach Mills (02:34:17.27)
Once you get to Celestial, you get Pro-Bans. It could even be Eternity Plus, but I think Celestial is probably a good line.
FullMetalLamps (02:34:26.443)
Yeah, Celestial should be.
CaptainCoach (02:34:27.259)
We got through one healer suppress.
SUPPRESS (02:34:30.264)
Most overpowered of them all, Adam Warlock.
Coach Mills (02:34:31.278)
Yeah, Adam. Okay, so Cloak and Dagger. Primary is gonna do, so there's a 15 % healing removal. So like a lot of these are compensary. So like the direct healing got buffed, the lingering Spellfield got buffed, the one-time heal of the Veil, the Wall got buffed, the Dagger Storm got, healing output got buffed. But like, this is basically a wash, is like kind of like.
FullMetalLamps (02:34:32.109)
Ha ha ha.
FullMetalLamps (02:34:57.805)
Sure.
CaptainCoach (02:34:59.707)
I think overall it's still a slight nerf to our healing. The Light Force dagger, think, is a slight buff. The other ones are a slight nerf, but yeah, overall, yeah, pretty much a watch. It's a nerf to their ultimate, though, is the big thing, that 15%.
Coach Mills (02:35:05.414)
God.
FullMetalLamps (02:35:11.331)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:35:12.162)
Does anyone know what the fuck,
CaptainCoach (02:35:14.287)
which I really think is good.
Coach Mills (02:35:16.406)
Yeah, yeah, I mean the old is gonna be a lot slower like that plus Especially punnies. What the fuck does her team up do what does that wall do like I'm so confused I looked
CaptainCoach (02:35:19.161)
You might be able to kill through now. Potentially. Right, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:35:29.219)
So what I think it does I I mean the team of patch notes out so we could just read it, but from what I saw it looks like it has a lingering effect. Whereas with the it's just like a one time use but you can like walk through in and out of it. Kinda like the base bubble, right? I think it's gonna be something like that, both with the blind and the the healing.
Coach Mills (02:35:42.087)
okay okay okay okay
Coach Mills (02:35:48.288)
Okay, okay, okay, that's Gotcha, okay, that's cool. Yeah, I think, I still don't think Cloak and Dagger's gonna be like insane. Like she's kind of been pretty mid for a while. I think she's gonna stay mid, but like she's a character that's really, really good in like lower ELOs and I think she kind of gets scaled out in higher ELOs and I think that's probably fine.
CaptainCoach (02:35:49.357)
Yeah, it looked like it did both.
CaptainCoach (02:36:06.991)
I think this is relative nerf overall. Although the ice block she gets is the best team-up ability in the game. That's the best buff to any hero single-handedly with that neutral just- In case of nice, immune to death.
Coach Mills (02:36:09.548)
Yeah. that is I forgot about the Mei team up. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:36:19.885)
Yeah, you can survive any hit, like any, any daredevil venom 321 hit, you just get to nah.
FullMetalLamps (02:36:25.823)
It it i is it actually like a maid block or is it just like redux damage reduction?
CaptainCoach (02:36:25.979)
It's a mini support alt.
Coach Mills (02:36:28.736)
It heals people around you and you just don't take any damage. You don't exist.
FullMetalLamps (02:36:34.093)
So like I could just tink an Iron Man out situation. That's crazy.
Coach Mills (02:36:36.172)
Yes, yes.
CaptainCoach (02:36:36.827)
Yeah, and I think you'll be able to cycle with, you'll do a bubble into a fade into an ice block and your bubble priority will be back up again.
FullMetalLamps (02:36:41.142)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:36:45.691)
I was actually gonna talk about the bubble. I hate that the bubble is on a six second cooldown, essentially. And I like I have two ways of fixing that, which is either they make the the bubble actually go on cooldown after it's done being used, while making it you know un uninteractable, you can't break it or whatever. Or if you're gonna have it be on a six second cooldown, essentially, make it so that you can actually break the bubble like in Winston like a Winston bubble, right? So you punish a bad bubble, but then with the wake
Coach Mills (02:37:11.591)
Mm, to heal.
FullMetalLamps (02:37:14.947)
Cloak is played right now, every six seconds you could just throw it out and get instant value. And there's nothing you can do as an enemy player to stop that.
Coach Mills (02:37:20.568)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:37:23.205)
Hulk clap blows it away.
Coach Mills (02:37:23.726)
I mean, you can kind of just... The way that they've kind of solved Cloak Bubble is just by power creeping the game. Like that's mainly what they did. Like you can just kill through it now. Like that's the... I know that that kind of sucks, but like that's kind of what they did. It's like, you as one person, you're never gonna be able to kill through Cloak Bubble, but like two people attacking at the same time, just... One of you negates the effects, the other one kills the person.
FullMetalLamps (02:37:33.709)
But it's like yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:37:47.46)
I just think the whole like making the bubble actually interactable is like a is better for the game and also like makes cloak and dagger players actually use their brain for once instead of turning it off and just slobbering it all over their keyboard.
Coach Mills (02:37:51.393)
is better.
Coach Mills (02:37:57.058)
Okay, okay. Okay.
FullMetalLamps (02:38:05.483)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:38:05.998)
Okay, so 5 % heal nerf on strategist. Once again, I think this character is still like net buff. You can get the mobility from Gambit or you can get the really broken Hella team up at the top end. The only thing I'm a little afraid, in the case of Tankpool, he got a buff to his neutral so he can still level.
Like the early stages are the things that are a little bit scary for pools cause they're really weak, but sup pool can get through those early stages better than the other ones. think like really easily. he just, once you get your bobble head, the bouncing bobble head, you're fine. Like you can just kind of snowball from there.
FullMetalLamps (02:38:46.859)
Mm.
CaptainCoach (02:38:48.411)
Do you think there's gonna be a situation since you play all the pools where you might be more inclined to play one and then swap later on but just be... Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:38:56.654)
I've done it before like in overtime situations like DPS pool is the most broken by far when you're max leveled. So like the ability for me to play the early games as strategist and then like I've actually did that in some games we played where it's just like I didn't feel like we had enough value later on and I and like in overtime I also swapped to DPS pool. I get my ultimate in the first like 15 seconds and then I have like like a like a DPS ult like a DPS ult right away is so strong like it's just so good.
SUPPRESS (02:38:58.879)
yeah, it's crazy.
CaptainCoach (02:39:24.603)
Do you think that progression is going to more or less stay the same for pools? Or do you think it'll flip-flop a little bit with the power reallocation with some of these stat changes?
Coach Mills (02:39:36.928)
Yeah, it's a little tricky. mean, you're still most most of the buffs are mainly going to your high end. wait, wait, wait, I didn't even think about this. This is the interesting thing. You could start the game on the Gambit pool. And then once you're leveled later, you can swap to the Hella pool and level up your pistols. So. Because then then then it's easier to level up early because you have an extra mobility.
CaptainCoach (02:39:39.323)
because the tank pool buffs
FullMetalLamps (02:39:53.777)
No.
CaptainCoach (02:39:55.739)
Ohhhh
SUPPRESS (02:39:56.843)
Oooooh Yeah yeah yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:39:59.524)
Yes.
SUPPRESS (02:40:03.876)
Yeah, that's a good idea.
CaptainCoach (02:40:06.411)
100%, that's kind of what I was asking.
SUPPRESS (02:40:06.978)
On top of that, yeah, no. I mean, he's gonna be insane.
Coach Mills (02:40:10.616)
That's wild actually. I gotta think about that a lot. I gotta test that too, cause if it scales that way, it's insane actually.
FullMetalLamps (02:40:14.872)
We think
Do we think there should be a punishment for swapping perks or swapping your team up abilities?
SUPPRESS (02:40:25.562)
Maybe yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:40:26.043)
Hmm.
FullMetalLamps (02:40:26.901)
Like like let's say maybe like you can't like you s you select one, you can't swap back and forth and spawn. You have to like wait like thirty seconds. Or maybe like the the effectiveness is like cut in half.
SUPPRESS (02:40:36.098)
Yeah, I mean maybe like twenty seconds or like a life or something.
FullMetalLamps (02:40:43.682)
Right.
SUPPRESS (02:40:44.09)
Think if people start like abusing it, then yeah.
Coach Mills (02:40:44.878)
I see, maybe you have to commit to one.
FullMetalLamps (02:40:46.903)
Yeah. 'Cause the difference between I think this game and Overwatch in t in terms of their team up abilities is with with this game you can just insta get it, instant value the moment you swap on, especially if you have a teammate that's on like if you're on Deadpool and you have a Hella, instantly you get the team up, it's like valuable. Whereas I think in Overwatch you have to like build up to it if you swap. or you or you can't even swap it in the game, I think.
Coach Mills (02:41:09.762)
Right. Yeah, Rivals runs with this where it's like, they think about the cost of things. So like in Overwatch, it's also with the old swapping. when you swap, lose, like you get percentages or whatever of your olds. I don't know. think they like it that we're like truly free. Like you're free to just pack up your comp and swap to a different one instead of like nerfing yourself.
SUPPRESS (02:41:10.126)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:41:25.613)
Yeah. Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:41:35.512)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Coach Mills (02:41:40.003)
I do understand what you're saying. Like, I don't know what I prefer.
FullMetalLamps (02:41:43.703)
I mean, we haven't tried it, so I guess we'll we'll have to see. I'd like
Coach Mills (02:41:46.006)
We'll have to see. Yeah, I'm not sure. I do like the idea where I come out on one comp, it doesn't work. I can swap to a different one and I'm not penalized for like trying to build. Because like then you get to build things. Like let's say you and I are dueled. We're like, we go back and spawn and we're like, let's, how do we build? What do we want to do? All right, I'll play this, you play that. And then we figure it out, you know? So that's kind of cool. That's like a cool aspect of it. So I don't know. I don't know.
FullMetalLamps (02:41:55.266)
Right.
FullMetalLamps (02:42:01.464)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:42:08.365)
Yeah. Yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:42:11.246)
Yeah, another thing to add on to that as well, dude, the Deadpool, like the overall ult changes, like the twenty percent decrease, dead all the deadpools are going to be unbelievably buffed because they don't have any ult change at all. They just have your ult on sixty seconds. So unless it's like unless they make it longer than sixty seconds, Deadpool might just be the greatest character in the game. Is it ult every minute? Or forty five seconds or whatever.
Coach Mills (02:42:20.59)
I forgot about that. I completely forgot about that shit. Wait, that's actually insane. Yeah, that's a really good point. That's insane.
CaptainCoach (02:42:28.315)
That's a good point.
FullMetalLamps (02:42:36.941)
You might be right. I forg I forgot about that.
Coach Mills (02:42:36.994)
Wait, that's actually... That's actually insane! So, okay, if that is true, and then also I can level with the Gambit team up and then swap to the Hella team up in late game, if those- both those things are true, all three of the pools are bis, like, they're all insane. That's wild, I even think about that. Yeah, cause the last time they did this old change, they changed it from 45 seconds to 60, like you said. Like, and they didn't change it this time. Fuck.
SUPPRESS (02:42:41.08)
Yeah, people don't really think about that.
SUPPRESS (02:42:51.14)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's that is insane.
FullMetalLamps (02:42:53.239)
Yeah. They're they're they're crazy.
CaptainCoach (02:42:53.467)
Mm.
Coach Mills (02:43:07.598)
Okay, well.
SUPPRESS (02:43:07.748)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think the pools are gonna be insane. But starting with the gambit starting with the gambit team up is a good ass idea.
FullMetalLamps (02:43:11.135)
New Gneties, bro.
Coach Mills (02:43:11.618)
Hey, hey pick them up, baby, let's go Deadpool
SUPPRESS (02:43:17.722)
I've been playing him since the launch. I know I knew about him long ago, dude.
Coach Mills (02:43:20.637)
let's go. Yeah, I backdoored into learning them all because I just went to the whatever the most broken one was and yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:43:24.068)
Hell yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:43:28.132)
Bro, I am excited for this hella Deadpool team up, dude. That is gonna be dope. That is dope.
Coach Mills (02:43:32.174)
It's gonna be sick, dude. It's gonna be actually so sick. Oh Okay, so gambit lost five healing but the kinetic cards single healing output from 28 To 30 kinetic cards is his primary I think So it's like basically a wash is what it looks like. Um, I think
CaptainCoach (02:43:50.671)
Got some AOE healing, looks like with Jubilee team up.
FullMetalLamps (02:43:55.192)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:43:55.5)
Yeah, I mean, like they did. It feels like they didn't really do a lot to this character, but he's still really strong, even though they didn't do a lot to him.
FullMetalLamps (02:44:00.899)
So my thing is, I'm still prima banning him because his ult is broken, right? And then they also gave him like seven different team ups. Right. He's with Rogue, he's with like Jubilee, he's with Wolverine, he's with Deadpool, like Cyclops, right? Like why would I ever want to have him in the game when he himself just existing gives like seventeen characters a buff?
CaptainCoach (02:44:00.953)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:44:18.821)
Cyclops, I think.
Coach Mills (02:44:20.661)
Right, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:44:27.022)
That's a good point. I will say Gambit has historically been worse the more dive Ameda is. He can be played in dive, but teams just kill him because he is kind of squishy comparatively to some other supports. And dive is definitely going to be so strong going forward. I'm not saying don't ban this guy because I'm probably still going to ban him, but I am saying I would expect him to be weaker in 9.0 than he was in 8.5.
FullMetalLamps (02:44:29.449)
I don't I don't wanna see that shit.
CaptainCoach (02:44:29.627)
That's a good point, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:44:55.214)
because I think like 8.5, heavily nerf, Poke was really strong at 8.5. A lot of nerfs to die besides cap.
CaptainCoach (02:45:03.909)
I don't know man, that Jubilee thing looks like a pretty good defensive utility. It just kind of cleaves in melee and I've seen his health bar go up. Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:45:11.726)
And it heals, so maybe that will give him enough survivability. I think Jubilee is gonna be a die victim. Maybe I'm wrong. I might be wrong, but I just don't think that she stacks up to... Like even... Is she really gonna be able to threaten a venom? If the way that she stops a venom is blinding him and dealing damage to him, is that really gonna stop him? I'm just not confident in it. Like maybe...
SUPPRESS (02:45:21.114)
She got that switch, yo. She got that switch on her.
FullMetalLamps (02:45:39.971)
I mean blind is so good because it stops you from doing things like Venom Slam. Right. You can't do s
Coach Mills (02:45:44.642)
I guess that's true.
SUPPRESS (02:45:44.846)
Yeah, does a blind does she have a bl does her blind do damage? Like I feel like you have to cloak like damage
Coach Mills (02:45:50.346)
I think it does. I need to test that character more. It's like...
SUPPRESS (02:45:55.322)
That might be crazy 'cause if you can, then you could just like instantly Venom might be t I'm telling you, if y with the Punisher team of if you pull out the full auto, you could evaporate Venom. Like I don't know what you're gonna be able to do against a full auto shot.
FullMetalLamps (02:45:55.351)
Yeah, I would have to watch.
Coach Mills (02:45:58.53)
But
FullMetalLamps (02:46:05.794)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:46:05.952)
Yeah, how well what's the what's the cooldown because I think venom like the song and dance is Venom's gonna try really hard to bait that out before he does anything
SUPPRESS (02:46:14.914)
I hope it's it's gotta be at least forty-five seconds, but if it's any it might be thirty, dude.
Coach Mills (02:46:19.88)
Like if that's like really short then it's gonna be very hard if it's long then it's it's kind of like just a song and dance where you're like you're kind of sandbagging it as long as you can and he's trying to just like dip his toe in
SUPPRESS (02:46:23.587)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:46:30.956)
Yeah, it's honestly just based off whoever like plays better. If you play it good enough though on the Punisher, you really have nothing you could do on on the Venom there and that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And even then with the blind, you could like three pump him without the unlimited ammo. And then when you do have it, he has no chance.
Coach Mills (02:46:35.235)
Yeah, yeah, I mean cuz you still get to just normally shotgun him like you don't have to use the team up to threaten him
Coach Mills (02:46:44.462)
You do.
FullMetalLamps (02:46:46.563)
Another reason Gambit probably needs to be banned is because his ult will make you get your ult faster. Right. And that's really valuable now, same with Captain America. So that's something to look out for.
Coach Mills (02:46:52.076)
That's also, yeah, that's true.
Coach Mills (02:46:57.89)
Yeah, that's a good point. That is a really good point. Okay, so Invis, the orb outgoing, her primary, this is her primary, right? Orb projection, yeah. Five more healing on the way out, five more healing on the way in, but then Compensate, it's basically a watch, but her other abilities are a little bit weaker. Nerf.
FullMetalLamps (02:47:09.985)
Yeah, her primary.
CaptainCoach (02:47:16.127)
Mm. This is a overall pretty, pretty big nerf to Invis. I think this is a bigger nerf. Like, like don't let the stats. This is not as much of a wash as I think you realize. You'll be able to kill through her all.
FullMetalLamps (02:47:19.756)
It is a big nerve.
SUPPRESS (02:47:22.65)
Thank God.
Coach Mills (02:47:26.166)
cause you know, the shield also doesn't heal as much. her old doesn't heal as much.
FullMetalLamps (02:47:29.591)
Her old.
CaptainCoach (02:47:31.091)
Her primary does go down. Yeah, this is one of the more notable nerfs I would say.
SUPPRESS (02:47:31.162)
I hate this character.
Coach Mills (02:47:36.078)
That torch wall is really good. What's the other team up?
FullMetalLamps (02:47:40.803)
She makes the entire team invisible.
CaptainCoach (02:47:41.263)
That's That's really cool. I'm glad they're pushing her in that direction. Guys, that's what I think. They should have made her more utility based.
Coach Mills (02:47:43.694)
it's cool.
I cannot wait to just be like walking and I see nobody and I get jumped by Invis and fucking Mr. Penn! Yeah!
SUPPRESS (02:47:52.462)
Yeah the ambush, you get with the ambush.
FullMetalLamps (02:47:53.122)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:47:55.236)
No, they need more stuff like this. This is, I actually really like to change this for Invis as someone who I think this they've mishandled this character and made her a raid boss. I think this is kind of moving her in the, direction she should be. Less output, more fun, invisible woman type stuff. So this is to me, one of the better changes on these notes.
Coach Mills (02:48:05.922)
Give her the sneak, yeah, double down on the enviz.
Okay. think it'd be cool. Wait, does that only give Mr. Fent invis or can she give anything invis?
FullMetalLamps (02:48:17.111)
No, it's I I think anyone in the radius. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:48:20.507)
It's cloak of, or not cloak of shadows.
Coach Mills (02:48:22.136)
yeah, you're definitely gonna- we're gonna set up some traps, just jump some people. So fu- heheheheh! So su- suprise, suprise, suprise Iron Man O, like out of fucking nowhere. Like, heheheheh.
SUPPRESS (02:48:25.22)
Unlimited ammo A twelve ambush invisible ambush.
FullMetalLamps (02:48:28.919)
Yeah,
CaptainCoach (02:48:29.081)
Well, here's the thing.
Or, you know, like Punisher, they pop the infinite ammo and your team's just all out exposed and then Invisible Woman on the enemy team is like, nope, you can't shoot them while it's down, so there's gonna be some crazy counter plays coming in.
FullMetalLamps (02:48:32.973)
Horrible shit.
SUPPRESS (02:48:43.75)
that is true actually. That is true. That might be crazier.
CaptainCoach (02:48:47.501)
You know?
Coach Mills (02:48:48.696)
That's it, I'm out.
CaptainCoach (02:48:50.075)
No, is this what I was saying? Like add more blue card type spells. So it's more about like how you use your abilities, not just like raw damage and healing all the time. I really liked the changes for Invis.
Coach Mills (02:48:53.014)
Okay, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:48:56.227)
Mm, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:48:57.184)
You know, yeah. Okay, Luna, so her idol doesn't give 10 % damage boost anymore, but it does give 10 % healing. So she's not as DPS-y anymore. She's gonna give more healing. Now people are gonna get more healing when they have the idol, but then the 15%. So it's kind of like a compensary thing, but then she also does less damage. So like overall, she's just doing less damage, which I think what is like the biggest complaint.
FullMetalLamps (02:48:59.863)
Yeah. That's cool.
FullMetalLamps (02:49:05.741)
Thank God.
SUPPRESS (02:49:08.472)
Yeah, that was so dumb. Thank god yeah, thank God. So stupid.
CaptainCoach (02:49:24.251)
Another nerf.
Coach Mills (02:49:25.942)
about Luna is that she's just done way too much damage historically or like recently. will say that Adam team up is still really fucking good. I just remember it. like, it gives you OmniVamp, the Adam OmniVamp.
CaptainCoach (02:49:29.123)
Yeah. So another output nerf, bro. And again, inadvertent nerf to support alts because of the healing boost.
SUPPRESS (02:49:39.93)
Cheese for
Coach Mills (02:49:46.146)
What was the other team up besides Adam? that the Iron Fist? No, Iron Fist has one with her. What's the... did we skip Iron Fist? We didn't even talk about... He didn't get changed. Yeah, but he has... But his team up with the thing is sick. Because he has an uppercut, he gets an uppercut and then a kick follow-up, but he gets to keep his kick, so he actually has like fucking Street Fighter combos he can hit you with. The bop bop. That's sick.
CaptainCoach (02:49:52.855)
Iron Fist got a cool one. we did. He got a cool team up.
FullMetalLamps (02:49:55.745)
We didn't get changed. That's why. What the fuck?
CaptainCoach (02:50:02.959)
The uppercut is so sick.
FullMetalLamps (02:50:14.145)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:50:15.714)
But anyways, yeah, Luna Snow. think this is a healthier direction for her. She should not be this DPS character. And it's not like she can't fight back. She still does reasonable damage. It's just like, she was doing a little bit way too much.
SUPPRESS (02:50:22.581)
Absolutely not.
FullMetalLamps (02:50:26.689)
Yeah. It she just she just did too much of damage and healing.
Coach Mills (02:50:32.428)
Right. So yeah, I think this is yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:50:35.897)
And she'll still be able to do damage. Because now I think this is, Luna's are probably gonna be less encouraged to just idle themselves, right? Because of the buff and I.
Coach Mills (02:50:45.58)
Right, right, yeah, she's probably gonna wanna idle other people more, I think.
FullMetalLamps (02:50:50.091)
Yeah, probably. I don't really see a reason why you would
CaptainCoach (02:50:50.554)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:50:53.442)
Especially if you have anything with mobility, like maybe if you're just shooting the back of your group, you'll idle yourself.
FullMetalLamps (02:50:59.061)
Actually yeah. Like w why the fuck would you ever self idle yourself now? There's zero reason.
CaptainCoach (02:51:06.649)
when you're by yourself, maybe at end of a fight or going off.
SUPPRESS (02:51:06.97)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:51:09.601)
But you can't I mean I guess if if you wanna like it's just for healing.
SUPPRESS (02:51:10.85)
If you're greedy as fuck.
Coach Mills (02:51:13.716)
Yeah, I mean, I mean really like I think in general a lot of Lunas over over snowflake themselves like they're like even even before like there's definitely even less of a reason now
CaptainCoach (02:51:16.463)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:51:22.747)
100%.
FullMetalLamps (02:51:24.051)
white fox team up where the boomerang with a charm.
Coach Mills (02:51:28.046)
that is really fucking good. That is actually insane. It's a double days. That's insane. It was the double days. It charms and then comes back. Yeah. You get double charmed. Yeah, because she already had it, but now she gets it twice.
SUPPRESS (02:51:28.592)
my god.
FullMetalLamps (02:51:30.359)
That is broken.
CaptainCoach (02:51:34.094)
A slow sin.
FullMetalLamps (02:51:34.975)
It no, it it just charms them, so it it just counts two times over.
CaptainCoach (02:51:40.264)
they gave Luna white fox charm?
FullMetalLamps (02:51:43.021)
Well that's that's been a thing, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:51:46.231)
So she can do that into her freeze and then do it again on the way out. So just line them up in a row. okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha.
Coach Mills (02:51:50.606)
It double would double procs instantly so it's just like days days But it's like it can definitely be really fucking annoying if you like three two one slam a venom in get double days like it could definitely be like fucking We'll see we'll see how that works out. Okay. We're almost we're getting through it. We're getting through We're almost we're almost to the end. Okay, so mantis Lost ten percent healing so they got some compensary stuff
CaptainCoach (02:52:01.103)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (02:52:15.736)
With the Starlord partner, instead of the healing flower doing 10 plus 2.5%, of the target's max HP, it's 15 plus 3 % of the target's max HP. So that's quite a bit better. Basically, you need the Starlord if you want it to be as effective as it was before, and I think it's a little bit more effective. And then with the Adam team up,
FullMetalLamps (02:52:38.477)
Mm.
Coach Mills (02:52:43.438)
The nature favors passive effect is enhanced after casting nature's anger and only while nature's anger is active, increased self healing from 12.5 to 17.5. A second. So.
CaptainCoach (02:52:55.109)
So her initial burst healing actually goes down, so you're gonna wanna pre-hot people now more, I think, on her, is how you're gonna play her. It's something I noticed, I believe it was Saipay do quite a, or maybe not Saipay, somebody was doing, he would basically keep up leaves on people even if they were full health, even though the instant heal wouldn't trigger, just to keep the healing over time, just to keep the health flowing so people could be proactive. I think you're gonna do that even more now.
Coach Mills (02:53:03.342)
Maybe.
FullMetalLamps (02:53:13.184)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:53:19.47)
What's what's nature's favorite is that the sleep or no? Damage boost. Okay Okay, interesting Okay, so you get more self-heal from that. Okay, interesting. I like I here's here's my fear like we have Adam Starlord Like Adam and Star would already have a great team up and then she like she gets to be like great team up with Starlord or Adam Like triple support Starlord is probably still fucking
FullMetalLamps (02:53:21.793)
Yeah. I I I think that's her damage boost.
FullMetalLamps (02:53:49.462)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:53:49.497)
Yeah, I triple supports this mantis is still one of the best healers.
SUPPRESS (02:53:50.18)
yeah.
Coach Mills (02:53:53.848)
Like I don't like they I think they did good on Luna. They did good on Invis. I don't really love them not addressing the damage boost of Mantis because it's
FullMetalLamps (02:54:02.541)
They just need to remove the the movement speed. I don't know why they gave her that. That was broken.
CaptainCoach (02:54:03.14)
I agree.
Coach Mills (02:54:06.786)
The movement speed, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, we thought, yeah, we thought, I'll give her only speed, no damage. Cause then it's good on certain types of characters, but it doesn't make poke broken. Like torch isn't gonna be broken with movement speed, neither is Elsa or Cyclops. Movement speed isn't what make those guys broken, it's just the damage break points.
CaptainCoach (02:54:08.259)
We were saying last week they should full commit to it and just take away the damage boost.
FullMetalLamps (02:54:13.03)
FullMetalLamps (02:54:20.595)
Mm.
FullMetalLamps (02:54:28.257)
Yeah. Okay, I could see that.
Coach Mills (02:54:31.69)
Or, you know, do something besides leave her in this way. I don't know. She's like my, she's my biggest op. Like this is the character that I, and I love Mantis as a design, like when I first played, but she ruins the game in a lot of lobbies.
CaptainCoach (02:54:32.325)
Hmm.
FullMetalLamps (02:54:36.768)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:54:37.147)
I think...
FullMetalLamps (02:54:41.848)
No yeah.
SUPPRESS (02:54:43.374)
Yeah, Mantis is up here.
FullMetalLamps (02:54:48.621)
The the only reason why she's not permaband is because half the support player base can't play Mantis. And so you don't have to worry about it. But when she's in the g when she's in the game, like Jesus Christ the games are miserable.
SUPPRESS (02:54:49.156)
She does.
Coach Mills (02:54:55.692)
No, can't.
Coach Mills (02:55:01.676)
Yeah. But like, but like also to be honest, like at least 75 % of all the DPS players out there would probably get more value if they just swap to triple support Mantis. Like, like it's the same thing. Like, yeah, like it's like, it's like Mantis is, I mean, she's just too strong to not play like in so many situations. If you have even a little bit of aim and you know how to hold an angle, like an off angle, like it's, it's.
CaptainCoach (02:55:01.941)
I'm abusing mantis right now, I love it.
FullMetalLamps (02:55:12.506)
no, a hundred percent.
FullMetalLamps (02:55:24.483)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:55:25.775)
By the way, Miltz I might have got, I think I have a Mantis player who is willing to come on. So maybe next episode we'll have someone to talk about the Mantis changes with. We've been low on supports guys because of.
Coach Mills (02:55:34.48)
nice nice. Okay nice nice nice. We've been trying to get support player. I've asked so many people. I've asked Kaji, I've asked Dylan Dubs, I've asked fucking everyone. No support players wants to come on the pod. If you're a support player please hit me up. You're welcome on the pod. Yeah. Or maybe at some point if y'all don't come on I'm just gonna double down on the support aid because I don't know what to do here. I don't know what to do.
FullMetalLamps (02:55:35.075)
shit.
CaptainCoach (02:55:43.866)
Ha ha ha.
FullMetalLamps (02:55:50.723)
That's not true.
CaptainCoach (02:55:51.181)
It's not gonna get any easier with full metal lamps.
CaptainCoach (02:56:01.637)
shit.
Coach Mills (02:56:02.446)
I'm trying. No, I'm just kidding. I actually play support a lot. I play a lot of Luna and a lot of support pool. Maybe I'm not in the club because I play supports that fight back, but I don't know. I'm not going to heal bot ever. No one should. So if that's the way that you play the game, I cannot relate to you. No, no, no, no, no, no. So he did.
CaptainCoach (02:56:08.219)
FullMetalLamps (02:56:18.101)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:56:18.971)
Speaking of supports.
SUPPRESS (02:56:19.428)
They're they're buffing Rocket. They're making his heel better.
CaptainCoach (02:56:23.099)
I've seen a few of your rocket clips, Suprez.
Coach Mills (02:56:28.236)
So he did get a little bit more healing when the Warp Pair or Patches through an ally, but it's offset by the 5%. But his ultimate's more expensive and now it has a decaying effect where if you are 20 meters from the CYA, you're only getting 60 % of the effect. 60 % of the shield, 60 % of the damage. So this means that this is good. No, no, and it does fuck with damage. It's actually a big nerf.
SUPPRESS (02:56:34.49)
I see.
SUPPRESS (02:56:48.57)
bro, not many people are gonna pay attention to that.
FullMetalLamps (02:56:54.219)
They're not
Points. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:56:57.848)
That's a big, that's a big no. It's hard, it's harder to kill like in an Invisal as an example and like combo it with team or use it offensively or, yeah, yeah, it's.
SUPPRESS (02:57:00.974)
Yeah, that is. That is a big nerf.
FullMetalLamps (02:57:08.631)
So my my thing was like I saw this and I I saw the nerf to rocket ult and I'm okay with that. But I don't know if I like this direction with the nerf. Because it basically just makes it really hard to use rock like how are you gonna position yourself with the rocket or how are you position the rocket ult? Like you just put it out in the open? That's just punishing bad like bad game sense or whatever. Right.
Coach Mills (02:57:26.274)
It's very, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:57:33.702)
Yeah, it's also kind of inconsistent in the effects it does, right? Like, how am I supposed to know if I'm 10 meters away or 12 or 8 or, you know, like, especially if it's behind me, like...
FullMetalLamps (02:57:36.514)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:57:40.065)
Yeah, exactly.
SUPPRESS (02:57:44.602)
Yeah, hopefully it tells you like that you're out of range or something, but it probably won't. Yeah, I probably won't.
FullMetalLamps (02:57:47.361)
They're definitely they won't, yeah. so I just
CaptainCoach (02:57:49.979)
Yeah. This is definitely one of the more odd changes just because of the, yeah, I agree. It's kind of inconsistent. Like I do think Rocket needed nerves and I do think his ult definitely needed nerves. This is a weird way to do it. It's going to, I think, discourage you from using it too aggressively. And I think it's going to make it better inherently with just rain cheeros, which is kind of odd because more, I think more characters are getting.
Coach Mills (02:58:00.238)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:58:16.795)
freedom in how they're able to play then like a character like Raka they're kind of limiting it. It's kind of weird. Kind of weird.
FullMetalLamps (02:58:20.471)
Yeah. Yeah. I I don't like how they're basically forcing you to s stack on top of the rocket ult. Even though the whole point of the rocket ult is like you place it somewhere else and now they have to choose between shooting the rocket ult or shooting, you know some
Coach Mills (02:58:26.806)
Right. But, but maybe it's, kind of like options. Like you could get the maximum effect, but you're limited in movement or you can just get a minimal effect and you have to, you know, you just, I don't know. I can look at it both ways.
CaptainCoach (02:58:40.249)
Yeah, I mean, technically the... Yeah, yeah, I... There's definitely gonna be more strategy now, more decision making based on it, which I guess technically is a good thing. It's just weird taking something away that you've already had.
Coach Mills (02:58:53.138)
Yeah, yeah, it is kind of walking things back a little. What is this team up? The Squirrel Girl one's kind of irrelevant, I think. It does reduce his cooldowns, but like, it's a team up with Squirrel Girl, so like, what the fuck? What's his other team up?
CaptainCoach (02:58:56.645)
But this is a-
FullMetalLamps (02:58:59.978)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:59:03.949)
Yeah. Just a group one. where your right clicks now change to like it it heals and does damage over time, I think.
Coach Mills (02:59:11.868)
CaptainCoach (02:59:12.54)
right.
SUPPRESS (02:59:14.168)
What? Damage?
Coach Mills (02:59:15.092)
Yeah, but it's not a lot of damage. Like I actually don't really think either of his team ups. Like I don't think either, cause I think his primary does more than that does. And damage. Like I think they will be fine. just, don't think that the rocket team ups are game breaking like some of the other team ups we've seen. it.
SUPPRESS (02:59:19.61)
That's deadly for DPS Rocket, maybe.
FullMetalLamps (02:59:21.869)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (02:59:25.685)
It it probably does. Yeah, but it's it's the fact that it does both healing and damage at the same time.
SUPPRESS (02:59:30.436)
You could just shoot the balls and shoot them and walk down.
FullMetalLamps (02:59:38.527)
No. Yeah. I think
Coach Mills (02:59:40.8)
It probably makes Rocket like overall between this and the team-ups not being insane. He's probably just going to be worse this patch like by several steps.
FullMetalLamps (02:59:46.891)
I think so. I think there's I'd like I would just rather play a Luna 'cause so 'cause their ult is consistent than a rocket than like if I accidentally walk left, you know, three meters I'm suddenly dying to an ult that I shouldn't be dead to or something.
CaptainCoach (02:59:49.189)
Definitely.
Coach Mills (02:59:57.806)
Hey, hey, hey. Yeah, I mean, he is the plus side is he's probably one of the best supports to play with dive, which is nice. But you also also maybe don't need that much healing with dive anymore. Maybe like he he provides so much healing like but the res beacon gets a lot of value into dive with dive. I don't know.
SUPPRESS (02:59:58.543)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:00:05.527)
Yeah. Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:00:11.411)
Mm.
FullMetalLamps (03:00:16.29)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:00:18.905)
Also, neutral healing does go up a little bit, not a whole lot, but it does technically go up. So, you know, it is what it is.
FullMetalLamps (03:00:24.183)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:00:26.048)
Okay, well, I guess we'll see on that Ultron, so the firewall drones do more, increase the area healing output of the imperative firewall drones from 30 to 35 per second. And then also he has some insane team ups. So he gets the Ironman team up if he wants, which is the beam. Or he gets a team up with Penny Parker where he can put his drone on everyone simultaneously.
CaptainCoach (03:00:34.554)
I keep
FullMetalLamps (03:00:47.875)
Penny Parker.
Coach Mills (03:00:53.516)
On his entire team and then right click them to give them all shield and damage boost and movement speed at the same fucking time. What the fuck.
FullMetalLamps (03:00:58.911)
Yeah. I I think it's up to four is what it what it is. I think it's up to four, yeah.
Coach Mills (03:01:02.806)
Is it up to four? I mean, it's like a mini-ult. It's like a team fight play. You just pop it, give everyone speed boost and damage, and you'll all make a play together and kill them.
FullMetalLamps (03:01:10.242)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:01:14.903)
No, it it does last like like maybe two seconds at most. So I don't know how useful that might be.
Coach Mills (03:01:23.092)
If you could do it like timed with like a cat venom daredevil engagement, it probably just kills everybody, right? I mean, it's gonna that's not easy to do, but it might be really strong if like.
FullMetalLamps (03:01:28.893)
yeah, that'll probably be.
FullMetalLamps (03:01:34.689)
Yeah. Also I don't I don't know how it triggers. Is it just like anyone near you or just like at a distance you just kinda
CaptainCoach (03:01:36.731)
you
Coach Mills (03:01:41.664)
I think it has to be relatively near you. think that's like a... So you have to be kind of close.
FullMetalLamps (03:01:44.567)
Then in that case, that that might just be above to like d anti dive rather than with a dive, right? 'Cause by the by the time your like Daredevil gets in after the buff, like it's gonna be gone, right?
Coach Mills (03:01:50.6)
Hmm makes sense. Yeah, give it to your whole team and then yeah
Coach Mills (03:01:59.384)
Well, you do have to use, you kind of have to use it, I mean, to get the most value out of it, you have to use your right click and the team up. So it's like you're using two abilities for one effect, which like effectively, what are you getting? You're getting like a soul bond with a value or something like that.
FullMetalLamps (03:02:07.275)
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:02:13.973)
Maybe. Yeah, I don't know the exact numbers on that, but
CaptainCoach (03:02:16.891)
I don't think Ultrons are gonna like this too much and I don't think too many people are gonna like playing against it. I think this is a hero that they still need to look at for rework. I just think this kind of uninspired, kind of boring, kind of just giving him a lot of just passive healing, which is already the problem that he has and without really changing the way he plays too much. I think he's just, they gotta go back to the drawing board on this guy.
Coach Mills (03:02:39.018)
I'm hoping that the Ironman team up is the stronger one. Cause I think that's more interactive a little bit. You know, your ability to aim. Like I wouldn't be surprised if, sorry.
FullMetalLamps (03:02:45.313)
Yeah, i and it No, I was just gonna say like interactive teamups are more interesting and healthy for the game I think, so
Coach Mills (03:02:55.36)
Yeah, because you could play Ultron, Hulk, Iron Man as a core and it's probably really strong.
CaptainCoach (03:02:55.621)
Yeah, but...
FullMetalLamps (03:03:01.81)
Mm. Yeah, maybe.
CaptainCoach (03:03:04.469)
I think he'll probably be decent, but I don't think he'll be one of the better healers. But I think he'll be okay. Like, just having the beam alone is going to kind of like, add him, make him slightly more viable in duo healer comps. But I still think you're gonna pick him in... I think Trio's gonna be massive. Trio's still gonna be massive, because of all the dive and...
Coach Mills (03:03:20.77)
Trio with Iron Man might be really strong, like Hulk, Iron Man, Triple might be really, really fucking good. Because Iron Man has enough damage to shred through some of these really hard to kill characters. Okay, so we finally have made it to the end. Yeah, I know we've...
FullMetalLamps (03:03:24.792)
CaptainCoach (03:03:25.266)
yeah, yeah, it's death ball comps
FullMetalLamps (03:03:29.474)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:03:35.339)
Thor, Thor Hulk, Trio Heel Iron Man could be nasty. That'd be fun.
FullMetalLamps (03:03:38.275)
Jesus.
FullMetalLamps (03:03:44.247)
Jesus.
CaptainCoach (03:03:46.179)
Well, didn't make it.
Coach Mills (03:03:46.828)
So we're not even to like the questions I wanna ask, yeah, we're at three hours. But, okay, so White Fox, so the Spirit Sanctuary, which is the teleport cooldown, is up three seconds. There's 10 % less healing, but the ultimate is bigger, so the ultimate 300 more HP. I think that the change to the teleport cooldown is interesting. It's probably gonna make the character, like that's gonna be felt. 15 seconds is a lot more, like it feels a lot more than 12.
FullMetalLamps (03:03:50.347)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:04:16.504)
Character's probably gonna be good in this mobility meta, but like is weak to poke. What do y'all think about White Fox?
SUPPRESS (03:04:24.602)
She did
CaptainCoach (03:04:24.805)
I think it's a fair nerf for the teleport. I actually think this is one of the better changes they've made to healers. White Fox was super overpowered. And I think this kind of makes her ult a little bit more reliable, less easy to burst down. You're still going to melt it, especially with all the damage in the game. And think that's a bit of what this is to a response to that. But this is overall, I think, a pretty big nerf to White Fox.
SUPPRESS (03:04:34.057)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:04:47.917)
Yeah, I mean I don't mind it at all.
SUPPRESS (03:04:48.686)
I'm happy about it. I hate that character.
CaptainCoach (03:04:52.387)
Yeah, so mean back to going what we're saying that we think dive and brawl dive is going to be strong.
Coach Mills (03:04:55.054)
Yeah, I mean she's still gonna be good even in spite of this probably being a net nerf to her because she matches really well into the meta.
CaptainCoach (03:05:00.483)
I agree.
FullMetalLamps (03:05:01.323)
all all all of our other the all of our other buffs from previous seasons are still there too. It's just like these specific ones
CaptainCoach (03:05:04.783)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:05:06.51)
And she has a team up with...
FullMetalLamps (03:05:10.975)
Silock and the other one is with
Coach Mills (03:05:14.254)
I don't even know what her Psylocke one does. Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:05:14.607)
Luna or no?
FullMetalLamps (03:05:16.031)
I actually have no clue what this I I watched it back like ten times, I was like, What the fuck am I looking at?
Coach Mills (03:05:20.718)
Okay. but but yeah, no overall, think white fox is going to be fine. Like she's going to, she's probably going to actually be better in the meta to be honest, but yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:05:29.083)
I think overall this is some of the best changes we've seen as a whole to the supports from any patch ever released. think these are actually, I think these are nerfs overall to supports, which again with the regenerative shield, they're not gonna have to be as reliant on teammates. So think this is all going to make the game feel a little bit more balanced and less reliant on these killers who press their button at the right time. I think this is gonna be really good.
FullMetalLamps (03:05:29.133)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:05:46.445)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:05:51.456)
Yeah. And I think like, I know like a lot of supports, like they might just be listening to the pod and thinking that we just want to shit on supports, but like, I actually think that this is going to give you more freedom. Like when, when characters, you don't need to care them as much when, when Venom's can reset up on their own and Thor's don't need you to like constantly look at him on an angle, you get more freedom to do what you need to do. Like what you, or what you want to do. Like you can take an angle, you can make a play, you can.
FullMetalLamps (03:05:51.511)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:05:52.526)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:06:13.913)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:06:17.1)
You know, people are less reliant on you, but you're also less reliant on them and you can do what you need to, like what you want to do in any given moment. So like, I think this is a win-win for like a lot of players. Like there are some characters in this patch that they got shafted, like Hawkeye and a few others, like Storm Hawkeye, some others, but like there's a lot of characters, like a lot of players are going to be able to have a lot of fun this patch, do a lot more of what they like to do.
CaptainCoach (03:06:26.715)
And those...
CaptainCoach (03:06:43.963)
You're gonna be less punished for making that major mistake with like an alt or something. And you're have more freedom to kind of just do plays on your own. feel like with a lot of, mean, I think a lot of supporters might actually enjoy the role more because of it. Because it's less about them and more about, yeah, like you said, just being free to play the game the way you want.
SUPPRESS (03:06:45.46)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:07:04.259)
Yeah, I've talked about this before and I'm I was supposed to drop this TikTok which I'm still planning to do, but a lot of I think the mentality or like the culture around supports in this game is reductive to heal bot heal by heal bot. If you do anything else you're bad. And if you try to do anything else, you get punished for it because supports are so powerful where if you're not heal botting most of the time or at most sea most seasons and most modas, you get punished, right? You you can't play flank Luna because if you do, now you need a third support.
CaptainCoach (03:07:29.019)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:07:34.879)
Or, you know, you play a support like Mantis and it's like, well it's not enough healing compared to Rocket. We need a rocket. So go rocket and stop the Mantis plays or whatever. And so this these changes should help with that, but it's a matter of like will the rival's general fan base or players like actually accept this and like adapt to it or are they just gonna like, Well, I want it I liked heal botting. I like sitting in the back and not doing anything else.
and turning my brain off, right?
CaptainCoach (03:08:06.139)
Okay, so what would your message be then to those players? Like how would you encourage them to get like a shield tank if they want to play that way, like a duo or what's like a way you can encourage people to try these new play styles and be more useful to their team while creating maybe play styles of their own.
FullMetalLamps (03:08:22.775)
Yeah, so I I th again a lot of it's like toxic incel based gamer culture, right? Where if you do anything besides heal bot, you're bad and you have to hard pocket the DPS or hard pocket the tank. And so or like even if you try to speak out on it, they're like shut the fuck up your support. but I think the best way 'cause a lot of people are like, Well, I want to play aggro Luna or aggro, you know, invis.
But I get punished for it 'cause my team's not pushing up or my team's not doing whatever. So the obvious best way in this game is to communicate with each other, whether that's through, you know, voice chat, your duo, text chat pings, whatever. But then again, because of how people are, you might not want to do that or like you you don't feel like safe enough to do that in the environment. So that's an issue on its own, but communication obviously helps the most with
alleviating the pressure of trying to make plays. Or maybe you're just not like exceptionally better than the entire lobby where even if you try to do something, it's just not enough of a difference maker for you at at your current like skill level.
Coach Mills (03:09:35.534)
I'll say that like I probably played more support this season than any other season or I played a lot of support this season I've been flamed on DPS a ton. I've been flamed on tank Fairly often but like I almost never get flamed on support because I do a couple things I communicate I Play for like actually winning the fight and sometimes that means like I'm not gonna run all the way back and heal my DPS like I'm playing for the fight like I'm playing to win and I communicate what I'm doing and I press my keys
And like most of the time when someone dies off by themselves, like they understand they fucked up. they're, you know, they're, they're, they're doing, but like, I'm not like staying AFK, not calming, you know, whatever. And I think especially supports, sometimes you have to just kind of, how do I define this? It's like, yeah, or I mean, like if, you're making a proactive play that you know is good and it like helps the team win the game.
CaptainCoach (03:10:25.571)
let people die to make your own play.
Coach Mills (03:10:35.138)
Like who gives a fuck about what your random, you know, four and 12 Spider-Man says? Like who cares?
FullMetalLamps (03:10:39.297)
Yeah, exactly.
CaptainCoach (03:10:40.953)
I think there's a bit of a fear of blame with healers that I think may go away a little bit.
Coach Mills (03:10:46.478)
I definitely don't give a fuck about what my supports are doing at all when I'm on Thor. Like, I don't care. Like, don't heal me the entire game. I give no fucks, like, ever. Like, I'm not even joking. Like, as Thor, I'm completely independent. I don't need anything. And I think that there's several characters that are more like that than ever. Like, they don't need anything. Like, I don't think Psylocke ever needs you to ever look at her. Ever. Like, you don't have- She doesn't need your help. And so...
FullMetalLamps (03:10:47.053)
Hopefully, yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:10:47.343)
Hopefully, hopefully.
FullMetalLamps (03:10:58.699)
no.
SUPPRESS (03:11:04.698)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:11:09.155)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:11:13.132)
That means I have a lot more agency, but it also means that like you're freed up to like go do what you wanna do and I'm freed up to do what I wanna do. And as long as we both do things that are valuable, we'll win the game. That's it. Okay. But moving on to the thing I kind of, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. Before we move on to.
CaptainCoach (03:11:27.791)
Did suppress, did you want to give any thoughts on like the support changes before we?
SUPPRESS (03:11:32.909)
Glad honestly, I'm glad that they're getting nerfed because they've been unbelievably broken for so long, and especially even just like a smaller nerf to White Fox, like the three second cooldown. Like, I think that they should have been nerfed a long time ago, and finally we're starting to make some good changes, even though some of the stuff is like Mickey Mouse, like at least they're trying something new instead of just like
FullMetalLamps (03:11:56.664)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:11:59.032)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:11:59.757)
Triple healer every game, every season for five, six seasons. Like, thank God they're doing something different. It's exciting.
FullMetalLamps (03:12:05.185)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:12:08.646)
okay. So I'm going to go through each of y'all and I want you to give me top two best characters in each role, for tank DPS and support. What do you think and why, you could talk about the team ups. You could talk about the characters, kind of to wrap it, to wrap up our evaluation of this patch notes. I'm going to stop sharing my screen and also kind of give your summarizing thoughts about the patch notes as a whole.
Suppress! We're gonna start off with you. What do you think? You can give one or two characters per role. Just characters that you're thinking are gonna be good. Like looking good, maybe a sleeper pick, best winner.
SUPPRESS (03:12:42.199)
yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:12:49.284)
So f for me, honestly, for I'm gonna start on DPS. That's what I'm most excited about. The Punisher with the unlimited ammo is gonna be unbelievable. With the shotgun primarily, that's gonna like ridiculous to have unlimited ammo with the shotgun. Star Lord, I'll probably start playing him again. I mean, the res was unbelievably broken. You have another life, you can teleport away. That's gonna be a problem. Hella, I think I'll have to pick up again.
With all the changes they're adding to that, I mean she just looks unbelievable. And then Bucky as well with the Captain America team up, like not many people know how good it is, but you have another dash that's even longer range, you get more ammo off of that. Like you could do you could use the cap team up to like escape Grudel if you do have like a cap. Like there's so much stuff you do with all this all these team ups they're adding.
for DPS, like I'm super excited. And even DPS Deadpool, like he is gonna be maybe the best of all of with the hella team up, like he has been a sleeper pick for a long time. And now with the ult changes, like everyone has longer ults. His ult's gonna stay the same, I presume. And with like the hella buffs for him, like for his ability stuff, it honestly looks absurd. Like I am I am very excited to see how it's gonna play out with all like the
all the changes, especially for those four characters specifically, like they look unbelievable. Like Bucky b Bucky, maybe people won't really know about but at least Punisher Star Lord and like DPS Deadpool and even Hella, like are all look unbelievably overpowered if if you know how to play And that's just like DPS. And then for Tank, I mean Venom looks unbelievable. The only way you can really stop him is with the Punisher, but I'm sure he'll be banned a lot of the time.
Especially if you're going to be playing Venom. and then on top of that, I mean honestly, I think the Hulk could be a big problem with the Iron Man team up, like Iron Man is a very Iron Man is a very good character if you know how to play him. Like with the ult, like and with Gamma, it's unbelievable. Like Rhy Mazing. Like if Rhy Mazion has a Hulk every game, you just won't be able to win. Like you have to ban Hulk. You have to ban one of the characters.
Coach Mills (03:14:53.257)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (03:14:55.247)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:15:06.35)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:15:10.274)
So I'd say Hulk, Venom are probably the two most devastating. Even with like Groot, like he could fly away. Like all these characters are gonna be ridiculous, but probably probably Venom, Hulk are my two most like probably gonna be the most deadly, which as well makes Punisher Punisher might be the best DPS in the game just off the unlimited ammo, because Venom and Hulk and like all these super healthy characters are.
are going to be you have to pick them. If you could play them and they're either gonna be banned or you have to play them and if you don't play Punisher or if you don't ban it like it's gonna be almost impossible to kill these kill these characters.
Coach Mills (03:15:50.402)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Any, any supports that kind of caught your eye or anything that or none really.
SUPPRESS (03:15:56.675)
Adam, honestly, Adam, I think is gonna be a problem. if like the people who are good on Adam with the the more health, like he could heal himself. Having the extra twenty five health, it's already hard enough to kill him. So that's gonna be a problem. and then on top of that, I mean it doesn't look too bad. Maybe like Ultron might be bad, maybe Adam Ultron might be a problem, but like realistically I don't think the supports really look like that.
overtuned. It's mainly like the the DPS role looks unbelievable this season and Tank looks pretty crazy, but like DPS really is seems to be shining this season.
Coach Mills (03:16:39.246)
What about you? What about you lamps? What are your best in slot top two for each role?
FullMetalLamps (03:16:44.809)
Yeah, I think Cap is still gonna be probably the best tank in the game. yeah, like his ult charge, with his ult, boosting that for the rest of the team is gonna be really powerful. He just has better survivability, more uptime, more consistency, basically. I think Angela's a sleeper tank. her team ups are both really good, regardless of if you have a you know, the the team up member or not. they've kind of buffed her in every way.
SUPPRESS (03:16:49.26)
yeah, Cap as well. I forgot about him.
FullMetalLamps (03:17:12.685)
Where she has a regenerative shield. maybe these other characters are a little bit weaker, especially the supports, which is why like Angela's bad into triple support. She's bad into Cyclops. like a lot of these poke characters, but they kinda got hit with nerfs as well. So I think those two are my like are the things I'm looking after the most next season. I think for DPS, definitely Hella, definitely Punisher, maybe another sleeper pick.
That's not even a sleeper pick, it's just DPS pool. Yeah, I mean like basically everything suppressed said. Like the I mean those characters are just crazy. you could probably argue Sideluck also. And I think for supports there's support pool and there's Adam. I'll also Mantis. I guess these are like the quote unquote off supports that a lot of people don't play often. I think they're gonna be a lot stronger. but I think for like the four
SUPPRESS (03:17:45.358)
He used to be insane.
FullMetalLamps (03:18:09.591)
The four horsemen of generic support players, which is Luna, Invis, Cloak, and Rocket. Rocket got hit the hardest. I think Invis is probably the best of those four. 'cause Luna got hit hard with the lack of damage boost. And so I guess Invis and like support pool are the things I'm gonna be looking out for the most. one for like top tier play, one for just generic ranked. Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:18:40.049)
What do think, Captain Coach?
CaptainCoach (03:18:40.213)
In my head, just from a meta perspective, I think it's gonna actually look somewhat similar to this early season metas just based off of the team ups alone. think Triple Healer Rez comp with Adamantus is gonna go back to being the best comp with Starlord. I think that'll be the number one comp hands down. I don't think there's any question, but I might be wrong. Even with the self...
sufficiency that a lot of tanks are getting, especially Brawl. I felt like Brawl has been historically the easiest tank lineup comp to counter now because of just how prevalent poke has been. So I'm really excited to see now Brawl having other options to play the game that isn't reliant on just having more healing output. That being said,
Triple Healer, think, is still in a lot of situations really good in the brawl, because you have a lot of shooting characters, a lot of ranged characters that can just blow them up as soon as they walk in. So I think we're still going to fall into this meta where Triple Healer, despite there being nerfs to a lot of the main healers, because like Lamp said, I mean, I agree with everything you guys said that those off healers are really not getting touched too much. it kind of now...
just getting their weakness filled like you're seeing with a lot of these heroes. But when you do it, the heroes that are already very good at their one niche, I think it's gonna create a problem where they're gonna have to get nerfed pretty quick.
Coach Mills (03:19:59.758)
Do you think now because we have, in a situation where like Cyclops is nerfed, Gene is nerfed, Luna, Rocket is nerfed, can we just like invest more or ban Slots and do just triple support supports like we can actually consistently ban Mantis and consistently ban like, you know, we can eliminate it. Cause I do like looking at the patch list, I think it's like, that's the main thing I want to ban out is triple support every game probably or like cap dive.
CaptainCoach (03:20:28.727)
Yeah. I think so. think, I mean, as hype as Suppress is and excited about his changes, I don't want there to be any kind of bias. I do actually agree with, I do think Punisher is going to be probably top three DPS this, but I truly believe, because again, I think it's going to be the older season meta. I really do. I think it's going to feel like season zero again, not just in the way the meta kind of shapes out, but more with how the game feels too. And to me,
more agency among individual heroes and having a game force less on swapping and more just picking what you wanna play overall is good for the game. I think it's gonna be crazy. I think it's gonna be chaotic, but ultimately I think in the long run, once people figure it out, it's gonna be better for the game. And I'm really excited. I'm really excited.
Coach Mills (03:21:16.398)
So I think in this patch, think Poke is taking a massive step back and I think there's gonna be two primary comps. It's gonna be a form of Brawl centered around characters like Thor and Hulk and characters like that. Or it's gonna be a form of All-In-Dive centered around Venom and Cap. I think especially Spider-Man with the Venom team up and Venom together, those two are gonna be extremely good. Spider-Man, Venom, they were running games down.
when that was meta before and I think it's gonna be similar. think Daredevil is gonna be a massive winner just because of like, like I know I've harped a lot about how good the over health is, like the shield. I think it's even better than I'm even saying. Like I think it's gonna be so big. But yeah, I think for supports, it's gonna be like, I think Support Pool, like after everything we talked about with Support Pool, like Support Pool is gonna be so incredible. Like that's a character that gets to break the rules.
CaptainCoach (03:22:09.402)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:22:12.398)
is good with dive is good with brawl plays well into both like with and against both comps gonna be so insane. yeah, no, I'm actually so excited. I wanted to give like the last thing I wanted to say is like if you had to give all these announcements a grade, we always do this a grade, you know, one through 10. What's it? What's your score for everything? The patch notes, the reveal, the new content. What's your what's your score? What do you do you think? What do you think lamps?
FullMetalLamps (03:22:42.507)
Yeah, I won't give it a ten, but I I am like at a eight, maybe even a nine, just based on like how excited I am to play it. Now, once I actually play ranked, I'm gonna not enjoy that. But it's like it's a lot better than w the previous seasons where it's like one team up, added, n like nothing adjusted, poke slop's still meta, triple support still meta, they changed absolutely nothing but buffed the characters that were already strong.
Coach Mills (03:22:56.737)
Yeah
FullMetalLamps (03:23:11.543)
This is dynamic, this is different. I like this. Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:23:17.464)
What do you think, suppress?
SUPPRESS (03:23:19.3)
I mean, I am more excited than I've ever been ever. I'm gonna be honest. I'm like a thousand out of ten for my characters, bro. For my yeah, for my characters. I was joking around, people are like, what do I want? I was really telling the hundred round drum on the Punisher is all I want. And I was joking around, like there's no way. But then they gave me unlimited ammo. That's even better than the hundred round drum. I mean
Coach Mills (03:23:26.498)
Hehehehehahahahah
CaptainCoach (03:23:27.291)
Thousand ammo!
SUPPRESS (03:23:45.655)
All the characters, even DPS pool, I love playing DPS pool and even support pool. I'll probably start playing him if we need a support, just because he's so he is gonna be so crazy, honestly. Like all the the pools are gonna be crazy. Like I genuinely think if any season, this is a season f for the DPS players to take over. It's been no DPS player has gotten like sipe levels of top ten, like one through five.
If anyone's doing it, it's this season, dude. You have everything to do it. Now it's DPS season. And I'm ready for it.
CaptainCoach (03:24:21.319)
yeah, man. Mills, I wanted to ask you one more question before, because one thing we didn't touch on, where's Magfit in all this? Is Mag just left in the dust? Magneto?
Coach Mills (03:24:22.232)
What do you think? Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (03:24:30.776)
So he gets the Scarlet Witch sword team up, which I think is actually a good enough team up that you don't even give a fuck about a Scarlet Witch on your team, like you just want the team up. You also get like the Emma one, which I think is kind of mid. I don't really personally like it all that much. He definitely, I mean, he's bad into Brawl. He doesn't do a ton against Dive. He's good against Star Lord, but he's not good against Sai and lot of the characters.
SUPPRESS (03:24:39.844)
Wait, yeah, that's crazy.
CaptainCoach (03:24:46.075)
I think Mag might be one of the worst tanks, to be honest.
CaptainCoach (03:24:58.69)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:24:59.98)
Yeah, I think he's actually probably fucking like C tier. Maybe B, B, optimistically B. He's definitely weak.
CaptainCoach (03:25:03.963)
It's crazy.
SUPPRESS (03:25:04.26)
think the only way he's gonna be good is 'cause he's the only person you could really counter the Punisher though. So if you don't ban the Punisher, then you have to play a Magneto.
Coach Mills (03:25:10.734)
that is true. But is he gonna always be behind on your ultimate though? That's the thing. It's gonna be even hard, right?
CaptainCoach (03:25:11.011)
Yeah. Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:25:17.879)
He already is, right? He already is. And then if you give him infinite ammo, it doesn't matter. He's just gonna like it's basically on punish your old like every thirty seconds. What are you gonna do about that?
SUPPRESS (03:25:21.816)
Yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:25:25.902)
Yeah, I guess that's true.
Coach Mills (03:25:28.695)
That's true.
SUPPRESS (03:25:30.298)
Yeah, maybe I'm Punisher might just be unstoppable. If you don't have Mag, you can't really kill the Punisher. Like he's the only way you could really kill him.
Coach Mills (03:25:35.01)
Like you, you bet. The only way you're to stop a, you like, have to dive him. Like that's you have to like.
SUPPRESS (03:25:39.318)
Or just ban him. And even then, I mean you have to hope he doesn't have eight thousand bullets waiting for you.
CaptainCoach (03:25:40.09)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:25:43.331)
Yeah, yeah. it's going to be like, yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:25:43.841)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:25:45.551)
Yeah, mean, to me, my grade, just because this is, they're giving us so many things that we have been asking for for so long. And even though it's gonna be broken, I still think just that the effort alone into actually attempting to make this game better and give every role an equal chance to carry and see them kind of listen to community feedback. I mean, this is, I think, the best patch the game's ever received.
And I really don't even think it's really close. think 10 out of 10 for me. don't see how they could be much better. Obviously, there's changes they could do. Obviously, they're not going to hit the mark perfectly on everything. But to me, this is exactly what I'm looking for as a player, shaking up the game in a meaningful way that's going to make player skill matter more. 10 out of 10.
SUPPRESS (03:26:14.97)
Hell yeah.
Coach Mills (03:26:32.598)
Yeah, think like after we went through so many patches and sometimes they were just putting patches or patches with really little things happening where I was kind of just, I'm not gonna say afraid, but I was just like, is this just what balance for this game is gonna look like? Like, is it just gonna be like this where it's just like these little ticky, tick tack buff plus minus, you know, I'm kind of just like lukewarm, like four out of tens for every patch. And I was like, I need to change my expectations. Them working on this when I had no idea.
SUPPRESS (03:26:52.388)
Yeah, I was scared too, honestly, bro.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:27:01.324)
Releasing it with this much content. I mean This is this is like a bigger change than like overwatch 2 like this is fucking huge like there's so much here
SUPPRESS (03:27:09.358)
Yeah, it's actually yeah, this is insane, dude. People don't realize how crazy this is about to be.
Coach Mills (03:27:16.396)
Like, I...
CaptainCoach (03:27:16.761)
Are they forgiven for lack of changes in the past now because of this?
Coach Mills (03:27:20.302)
I think, I'm not even sure that they will be, but I don't think that they'll be the same team going forward because if they were working on this behind the scenes, that had to have been at least half of their brain power, their team power. They spent so much resources on this. I think you gotta, this is a new chapter. We gotta think about them post season nine or new season nine going forward. We can evaluate the devs from now on.
CaptainCoach (03:27:24.015)
Ha ha ha.
SUPPRESS (03:27:25.146)
For me they are, dude.
Coach Mills (03:27:48.78)
I think this is an insane thing to do just like a year and some change into the season, the game being out. Like I have to give it just a perfect score. Like what else am I going to give it? Like, like I'm so happy we get to be happy about the game. and I, I'm so happy for the future of the game. Like I, I like, I'm, this is insane. Yeah. We're out of beta.
SUPPRESS (03:27:56.75)
Hell yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:28:04.549)
Marvel Rivals 2, baby.
FullMetalLamps (03:28:05.655)
Yeah, no.
SUPPRESS (03:28:07.086)
Yeah, I'm excited, dude. I've been whining for a while, but I am finally excited to play.
Coach Mills (03:28:13.966)
Like I'm actually so fucking hyped to play like I can't wait till Friday
SUPPRESS (03:28:16.794)
Dude, yeah, I did I was not expecting any of this shit, dude, but I am actually hype to play.
FullMetalLamps (03:28:22.487)
Yeah I mean if we had to suffer for nine seasons to like really, really enjoy the game, then I mean I it was worth it then, you know.
Coach Mills (03:28:28.91)
Yeah, I cannot wait to where I click a full metal lamp stream and for the first time this motherfucker smiling on stream. He's having a good time. Let's go No, no
CaptainCoach (03:28:29.819)
Cheers!
SUPPRESS (03:28:30.714)
Hell yeah, bro. Imagine what's about to happen on season thirteen. It might be fucking insane.
FullMetalLamps (03:28:38.695)
Okay. Okay. Okay. I'll see how this.
SUPPRESS (03:28:45.026)
be having a good time. You'll be loading onto my stream it's me a fucking big smile every time you say I'm gonna be throwing down the ammo and I'm gonna be like Yeah
FullMetalLamps (03:28:49.313)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:28:53.226)
No, you you I'm telling you when you get your first off the map kill with the fucking Angela thing like you're gonna be a blast like it has to be like it's gonna be sick when you block your first magl with the penny shield. Don't scare. I'm kidding. but yeah anyways, Guys, it's been awesome having you on I want you to tell people where they can support you suppress. Where can people find you? Where can people support you?
FullMetalLamps (03:28:58.741)
Yeah. That's gonna be crazy.
SUPPRESS (03:29:01.1)
that should be crazy. Yeah, that should probably be crazy.
FullMetalLamps (03:29:05.72)
Okay. I'm not
CaptainCoach (03:29:07.739)
Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm.
CaptainCoach (03:29:13.668)
Hell yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:29:19.14)
Mainly on Twitch. I mean I'm on everything and I'm uploading short form everywhere. YouTube, X, Instagram, but mainly Twitch. My Twitch is just suppress. My Instagram and my TikTok are suppress T T V. And then my X is Soft Aim Suppress. And then lastly my YouTube, which I'm also trying to upload more, but mainly I'm just uploading like short form content is also soft aim suppress.
Coach Mills (03:29:48.974)
Hell yeah.
SUPPRESS (03:29:49.24)
But mainly I'm on Twitch. I'm gonna be definitely streaming every damn day. I'm taking over. They're gonna call me the fucking Psype of DPS. They're ready. Every and this is only the beginning, dude. Hell yeah.
Coach Mills (03:29:54.54)
Yeah, locking the punny. Let's
Let's go. Let's go. Let's fucking go. and Fullmetal Lamps. Where can people come support you? See what you're all about.
CaptainCoach (03:30:00.121)
Let's go, dude. You've been popping off. You've been popping off lately.
FullMetalLamps (03:30:04.845)
Yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:30:12.033)
Yeah, I'm I'm mostly live on twitch that TV slash full metal lamp with no s. and then I'm everywhere else, Instagram, Twitch, TikTok, Full Metal Lamps with an S. I do a lot of coaching content, educational content, pro esports analysis, and then I ha make a lot of support hate content. So if you enjoy that, definitely check it out.
Coach Mills (03:30:30.728)
hahahahah
CaptainCoach (03:30:33.659)
His crash outs are the best. We had a couple games lately, man. I've been tuning into his stream. It's been full-blown content every time I go in. One of my favorite new streamers that I've found. It's been great. Absolutely, bro.
Coach Mills (03:30:38.542)
It's actually peak.
FullMetalLamps (03:30:39.935)
Yeah.
Thank you. Mizalua. And one last thing is if anyone's interested in coaching, I do also offer that service. just hit me on my Discord and we can talk about it. But yeah.
Coach Mills (03:30:57.688)
Hell yeah, yeah. Very deeply understands the game is a great coach. I highly recommend. Definitely check him out. But thank you guys so, so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. If you like the pod, make sure to smash that like and subscribe. Definitely check out both suppress and full metal lamps. All their links will be in the description down below and hope to see you in the next pod. Peace.
CaptainCoach (03:30:58.774)
yeah.
FullMetalLamps (03:31:03.403)
Make thank you. Kind words.
CaptainCoach (03:31:20.444)
Bye!
FullMetalLamps (03:31:20.577)
But that's