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Welcome to Choose Your Struggle Presents: Made It, Season 1: Stay Savage. In this episode we begin to understand Sarah's struggle. We're still heading down and we're nowhere near the bottom.
Choose Your Struggle Presents: Made It, a documentary, serial-style podcast telling the story of a person who has made it back from the depths of trauma and created something extraordinary with their second chance.
Season 1 is titled Stay Savage and focuses on Sarah Laurel and the harm reduction and recovery housing organization Savage Sisters.
* This transcript has not been edited. Sorry, I ran out of time!
Made it made it as a member of the shameless podcast network previously on made it, I was obsessed and in love with Dylan. I mean, he is just, um, a beautiful human so, and I was sober for him, like completely. Um, he really got like a good, he got the. Part of me in the beginning. You want the truth? Here we go again.
So I knew something was wrong. If she dies,
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welcome back to made it where we left things with Sarah was she just had her first child with her boyfriend clay while Dylan was unplanned. He was still very, very much loved, not just by Sarah, but by the entire family. Here's Mac when Dylan was born. I just thought that it was so epic. I love babies. And I had cared for Aiden.
So I knew like how to change diapers and bottle feed and, and properly hold them. So I didn't drop them. And it was for me, super exciting. Yeah, it was, it was very exciting for me, Adam, to remembers that even being so young himself, the birth of his first nephew was an absolute cause for celebrate. It was amazing.
I remember being ridiculously excited. Um, and at the time, um, my mom wasn't really planning on having any more children. So, uh, I, I didn't think I would get any more little siblings, my dad either, but Dylan, uh, when he came, like all the rest of my siblings fought to hold him, um, fought to go be able to see him because at the time Sarah was with clay Dylan's father and clay was just a.
Sarah really was doing amazing. She had a fantastic career. It was literally, it was amazing to go over there. The, the energy was always fantastic. Um, and getting to play with Dylan was awesome. We, uh, we've literally battled to, to spend time with him. Sarah was happy and for a while, things were stable.
Unfortunately this series doesn't end here. So of course that would change. Here's how. So we got engaged and, um, there was some abuse within our relationship. He drank and I didn't drink at that time, really? Like at all. Um, I worked a lot and he had some job insecurity issues and it caused for a lot of.
You know what we were kids and he was like gaming and I was working and taking care of the baby. So we split up, I left and I took Dylan and I went to my mom's for two months. And then I got my place in south Philly with just me and Dylan when he was a year old. When Sarah left clay and in the process, told the family about the abuse.
Adam remembers it coming as a shock that wasn't at all, who they thought clay was. Here's the. I found out that clay hit her. Um, and he was wasted drunk and apparently was getting wasted drunk regularly. I never saw that in person. Um, at that time I didn't, I was too young to be drinking and smoking with Sarah.
So she kind of kept that apart from me. However, um, I did eventually hear what happened, um, because Sarah left him and I do remember going there. Um, Like 12 year old and or however old I was with Alex and Osmium, like threatening clay. Um, along with my father who also made a visit to clay at that time, another major change was happening for the family around this time while Mary and Fokker, his relationship had been Rocky from the start.
It was at this point in the story that they split up for. Good, not long after this, Mary started dating a man named Brian who brought along with him, two children from previous relationships. The oldest was Charlie, who was a preteen and slightly younger was Hannah. Brian, Mary would eventually get married and have a daughter of their own, who they named Erin.
You'll hear from Charlie throughout this series. Here's Charlie, my first memory. I mean, I'm editor, I want to say at her mom's house, I'm sure it was like a Sunday brunch or, or something like that. But the first like memory I have formed, um, and like, Fully remember it would have probably been, uh, at our apartment.
Um, it's like hanging out, maybe watching her son, um, something like that from the beginning, the family readily accepted Charlie and his siblings, but none more so than the brothers, Adam, Alex Oz, me and Charlie quickly became itself. Yeah, like me, Adam, um, Oz and Alex were like a tight, tight knit group growing up.
So I would, I would go stay with my dad on weekends and then I would go to, I would go to school for my mom's house. And like, my dad just brought me over there one time and I, and I'm pretty sure it was the first time I went over there. Um, w it was like a Friday night cause my dad would get me on Friday.
We were hanging out and like, I'm pretty sure it was at first. And I had asked me that I'm like, can I just stay here for the weekend? Cause it's like, like built-in friends. Um, and then I'm not sure that I actually slept in my dad's apartment, like ever again. Um, I would just start going there every weekend, even knowing what was to come and yes, I know.
Thank you, Freddy foreshadow. Charlie looks back at this time. My siblings are my best friends. Like I, my step-mom's like I hear of my, I love my dad to death. Like I wouldn't trade it for anything. Uh, it was as perfect. And as perfectly imperfect, as one could ask for, with so many kids in the family, especially all of them being between the pre-teen and teenage years, it was only a matter of time before the brothers followed the sisters into trouble.
Let's see, I was in eighth grade. I was arrested on a school field trip. Um, cause I brought weed to Sandy hill, um, which is like a three-day overnight for eighth graders. So I got expelled and uh, went to a secondary school and got put on probation, which at the time sucked. But, um, looking back at it now, I was definitely headed on a downward spiral.
The family reaction was that everyone knew what I was doing except for my mom. And my mom was just really sad. For Charlie. However, the problems went way deeper than minor scrape the law. Here's Charlie, it's it started with alcohol for sure. Um, I, I acquired a bottle of vodka and I took it to a party. And like from the first shot I took, uh, I was just like, damn like this, this is where it's at.
Like, I, I feel like my skin fits. I feel like I can breathe. I feel like, uh, I feel like I finally just got handed the, the, how to be a human manual that everyone else got when they were born, that I just got missed on the assembly line. So I promptly took like nine shots back to back after that, just chasing that feeling and, and got blackout drunk.
And it just kind of took it from there. I think my first time smoking was with Alex and I's, um, but like anything, the one for the most part, because I didn't get into hard drugs like I did, but like, for the most part, anything socially acceptable that one of the four of us did all of the four of us would.
I didn't even like really enjoy smoking weed, uh, especially at first, but I just, I did it cause it was better than being sober. And then by the time I was 15, I mean, pills were like readily available in my high school. Um, I started taking a lot of like Percocet, Vicodin, Xanax. I remember my, my, I think it was my 15th birthday.
I like, I don't know if I overdosed or like, I just took way too much, but like, uh, I definitely did too way, too many operas before going to school. Um, and to the point that I had to go home, I, by 15, like I already couldn't control like how much I took while this was going on. Sarah was living alone in south Philly, raising Dylan while cracks were beginning to show her life was for all intents and purposes, pretty stable in this next section.
She's going to talk a little bit about a job. She had a. We bleeped it out because we didn't seek any permission from that organization to say their name and just to make things easier. We thought it's best to avoid mentioning it anyway. When I moved to south Philly, I had gotten a promotion to dual account executive.
I had been working at that location in Devin, and I got transferred and promoted to a location at the airport. And so the move to south Philly was just kind of natural. And, um, I was able to afford living on my own and paying for my son's daycare. More after this break. Here's this episode's podcast recommendation brought to you by great pods.
Hi there. My name is Janie and I'm the host of the podcast called what's on your mind. At the end of the day, we are more than our bios and our professional descriptors and our credential. Where people with unique life experiences, interesting perspectives and stories to share with the world once a month.
I like to showcase stories specifically from the neighborhood that I live in, in Memphis, Tennessee. The first Monday of every month is mental health Monday. So again, that podcast is called what's on your mind, new episodes weekly, and you can find us on your favorite podcast streaming platform.
Throughout the process of preparing for this show. It sounded like to me that this is when Sarah's problems truly began. I asked her about this here's her response. I didn't have a problem. I mean, in my mom would dispute this because she would always say that I drank too much, which is hilarious.
Editor's note. He does say that, but I, I had a really good career and I would go to, uh, out with my friends to a bar and I would have one drink and go home. I had no problem having a drink and going on. You know, up until that point, I was able to kind of step away from drugs and alcohol. It wasn't until opioids were entered into the mix that I was unable to say, no, I had like fizz, a physical compulsion to keep going.
Wow. There was a lot in there. We could use this time to talk about the difference between substance misuse and full-blown medical addiction, which is a diagnosable. Uh, but I don't want to use all this time for that. What I will do is put a link to an episode of my other podcast. Choose your struggle in the show notes, where we talk about these topics.
Instead, I want to briefly mention here the importance of the idea of something doesn't have to be a substance. It can be an action or a life event serving as a trigger. You're about to hear Sarah talk about the first time she tried Percocet and for her, that was a. Again, we just don't have time in this show to discuss these incredibly important topics, but I encourage you to do some research outside this show on different thinking around addiction.
Anyway, here's the. The first time I got prescribed Percosets, it was for carpal tunnel. I had no idea that I even had carpal tunnel. I just had like really bad shooting pains in my wrist and my hand. And so I had gone to a doctor on the main line and he told me to take a perc five when I felt like I was having pain.
So I did, I thought it was like an ibuprofen to be, I didn't think that it was that big of a deal. I did know that they were like selling drugs on the street. I wasn't that naive, but I didn't think that this was. What it turned out today, for those of you who know my story and overzealous to put it nicely therapist is, is a big part of it.
And of course, all the headlines for the last couple of years have been about doctors pushing pills. So I asked Sarah if she thought the doctor who prescribed her, the Percocet was pushing the pills, or if she actually thought that she needed them, here's her response. I don't know if he was pushing them.
I, I don't know the doctor well enough to understand what his motivation behind the prescription was. Maybe he thought he was helping and I was not appearing to be, I wasn't like med seeking at that point. I didn't ask for it. So he may have just thought, oh, she's going to be responsible with this. And, you know, blah, blah, blah.
There was never a conversation between the doctor. And I, in fact, I remember that he never really even looked at me and. There was no conversation about the dangers of this being a highly addictive substance. So do I think that he maliciously did it now? Do I think that it was irresponsible? Yeah, I do.
Admittedly, the next question I asked Sarah was a bit tough, but I'll be honest. I kind of love the way she responded. You know what? I won't even preface it. Let me just play her response to this. Uh, everything I do, I do addictively so I think eventually I would've found some sort of substance that made me feel the way that I wanted to feel.
I think that I have the addict gene, if that makes sense. Um, there's always the potential that if I hadn't been introduced to opioids, I would have never found that substance that made me feel the way that I wanted to feel. Um, But I'm, this is my reality, you know, I can't, I can't kind of guesstimate what could have been, or would have been, I can only go based off of what, what happened.
And that is once I found a substance that gave me the feeling that I wanted, I took it to the end of the. There is a common myth in the world of drug use that we hear all the time. And that is that drug users are just chasing a high and while for some people that is the goal of drug use, that's not true for everybody.
So I asked Sarah to clarify here, what did that look like for her early on? Was she chasing a high or was there something in that feeling that she was looking for? Here's her. I think that that changed progressively. Um, in the beginning I felt like Hercules, you know, I was, I didn't feel pain and I wasn't tired.
And I was just kind of speeding around and getting things done. It gave me energy. Um, And things didn't seem to upset me. You know, the music bounced lighter in my ears and colors seemed brighter. And I don't know, things seemed funnier to me. There was kind of like a weight that was lifted, that I was allowed to experience things and in a different way.
And that changed so drastically when I got to heroin and that, and then it just became a feeling of safety. I wasn't sad or anxious anymore. I felt the weight of. Life from a very young age. I, there wasn't, I don't remember having this like very light and flighty and like exciting, happy childhood. It was a happy childhood, but in all of the moments where there were joy, there was also a depth of like, okay, real life kind of fucking sucks.
And. That stayed with me. And the only thing that kind of stopped it was Percocet. It kind of took that overwhelming, like, Ugh, away when you actually sit down and talk to drug users, stories like this are common. Sarah is not in any way. As most of our media or drug counseling programs would have us believe the exception to the rule.
In fact, she is the rule for most of us and myself included here using a substance is often trying to fill a hole. And obviously for Sarah, that was noted. Unfortunately, the people who usually can't understand that or those around us, because they don't have the same feelings that we do. So I asked Adam if he was aware of Sarah's growing drug use and largely misuse here's his response.
I mean, I knew she was drinking and smoking weed because I was secretly smoking weed as well. Um, and soon after that, she found out that I was. We ended up drinking and smoking weed together. And that, that is, that is the time that looking back at it? Absolutely. It was a, she was definitely, she had left the abusive relationship and she had moved at that point to the city.
She got an apartment in south Philly, um, right by the bridge, going over to New Jersey. What's that street packer app, um, right at the end of packer app. And at that time, yeah, she just started drinking and smoking a ton of weed, um, along with all of us, um, Alex ASMI me. And, uh, and Liz as well. Oh, right. Liz, when we last heard from Liz, she was bolting her mom's house for Ireland with the help of her grandfather.
Now she's back and you know what, there's so much going on here. I'll just let her tell it. I had a blast in Ireland and I learned how to drink. And the thing that happened was when I came home from Ireland, I was 18 and I couldn't drink. And I don't think I was eating. Consciously. I didn't realize that I was rearranging my world in order to get what I wanted, but I was like, I can't stay here.
Like I'm 18 years old. Now I'm the sophisticated world traveled, you know, adult that can walk into a bar and have a fucking drink. I got to move. So I moved to the Cayman islands, British Weston. And I lived there for a year and I, I just did, I did a tropical style, scuba diving and bartending and partying on that island, um, for a year.
And, uh, I was just, I was over it, you know, it was just like, I'll never go back to the United States. It's boring. There's nothing there. I'm just going to keep traveling and working and having a good time and living my life at that point. Um, I don't. You know, I'm, I'm, self-interested, I'm more focused on what's next for me in life.
And I, I kind of looked at my family is that's that's the past, what's the future. And I'm just chasing it. Uh, and then I proceeded to, well, then I moved to South Africa for a few years, but by the time I got back from South Africa, then I was just, you know, I was just in full blown alcoholism and. And that was me for a few years with the family and just working in bars and restaurants in Philly.
And, you know, every night I was either living with a guy or crashing at my mom's house for years. Wow. Right. A lot in there while Liz. And of course, Charlie as well are important characters on this show. I don't have time to give their stories of struggle. The same focus that I do for Sarah, that being said, it is incredibly painful.
And so you'll hear me weave their stories in and out of this series at this time. However, I want to return to Sarah. So here's Liz talking about what that was like when she came home. I was in South Africa when I found out she was pregnant. When I came home from South Africa, probably a year and a half.
Uh, uh, yeah, about a year later, I actually stayed with Sarah in her apartment. I came home from South Africa. She had a brand new baby. She was like Rachel Ray cookbooks and homemaker, and really, really like happy clay was working full time. The baby was awesome. And I stayed with her and I was at that point, a drinker, a heavy drinker.
Sarah was not, but Sarah did introduce me to pills at that time. She did share a Percocet or two with me here or there. And I think that my drinking. Made it all look sloppy to her. And she was a very controlled pill taker. She wasn't a drinker. She liked to smoke pot occasionally, but she, she was, she was managing much better, um, than I was at that point because I was drinking.
So I was just a mess. You know, you can add a little bit of drugs to that. And it looks a lot worse than somebody who's just taking pills, you know, and she was working full time and, you know, cooking and cleaning and taking care of a kid. And so I stayed with her. I don't know, maybe a couple of months and I helped out where I could, but really I was a bomb.
I wasn't working. I, um, my life was still a party. I was depressed because you know, my husband who I thought was going to be the guy that I married and moved to South Africa with ended up splitting my head open. So I came home feeling sorry for myself. Um, I just wanted to have fun. I, I mean, that didn't change.
Like for 10 years, all I wanted to do was have fun and that's all I cared about, but Sarah got a little, you know, she had a child and a career that she was trying to build up and there, I was just like, Hey Sarah, what are we doing tonight? And she just got tired of it.
If you guys want to learn more about Savage sisters, check out www dot Savage, sisters.org. If you'd like to hear more from me and Sarah specifically, please reach out to info@savagesisters.org, and we can come speak to you, your organization, your business, or your place of worship on Narcan, trainings, harm reduction, trainings, or anything in general with Savage sisters.
If you want to donate, please go to seven sisters.org sponsorship page. There. You can find a plethora of ways to give directly to our cause and help our mission addition. You want to come volunteer at an outreach, please reach out to info@savagesisters.org. So we can give you dates times and locations for our outreach events.
Thanks everybody. Stay Savage.
Hey, y'all it's Jay, the host of this show. If you're not really enjoying the series and you're just listening to make me happy, then thank you for the rest of you. I invite you to check out everything else. Choose your struggle does in the mental health and drug use advocacy space, we have a couple other podcasts and putting our incredibly popular weekly show called.
Choose your struggle on that show. I interview people with lived and learned experiences on the subjects of mental. Substance misuse and recovery and drug use and policy. But occasionally we talk about other topics as well. We also have an underneath show called choose your struggle presents Monday motivation, but it's not just podcasts.
We also host two vulnerable storytelling events, rock-bottom storytellers and a day in the life on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Twitch, and YouTube. And now I'm so excited to announce that we'll be doing rock bottom storytellers live here in Philly, starting the summer. I also have a book coming out, hopefully later this year.
And I regularly traveled the country, telling my story. And speaking about these important topics. I know this is all a lot, but you can check us out at our website, choose your struggle.com and check out all of our podcasts, wherever you're getting this series, just by searching for. Choose your struggle.
All right. That's enough about us. Let's get back to the show.
Liz was back, but she just wasn't back in a way that Sarah was hoping for hearsay. She was in, I don't know, the Cayman islands or Africa or Ireland or something. I mean, she left, um, when I was a teenager to pursue her alcoholism abroad and she came home after my son, Dylan was born. And, um, I mean, we've always been like, she's my sister.
So we've always been close, but also, you know, we've had issues, I think. No at that point, we weren't talking much. She was out drinking to this day, never seen a drinker. Like my sister, Liz was struggling. And while Sarah's use, may have wandered into substance misuse at this time, she wasn't, she was pretty focused on raising her son and just couldn't be there for Liz.
She was also angry because she wanted her sister there with her and Liz just couldn't provide that. Here's what. I would say, when I look back on that time, my sister wanted more connection with me, but because I was drinking so much, I wasn't there. I was there physically and I was there socially, but I don't think that I was there in the way that she wanted me there because she wanted her sister back.
Right. And, and I was back, but it was. I was just there to have a good time and I loved everybody and I wanted, you know, all th it was just a very naive kind of mind frame for me, even though when we were together, there was something missing. Liz hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what Sarah wanted.
This next part is hard to hear at that point.
I was so fucking sad. That, when she'd been gone for a few years at that point that she came back that way, you know, um, like when she left,
when she left, she wasn't that person. And when she returned, I saw. Pain that couldn't be masked. Um, um, I was very disappointed because I was going through a lot at that point. I was thinking about leaving clay and I didn't know how to do it, and I didn't know what was going on. And, and I was kind of excited that my big sister was coming.
I've been the big sister, like I'd been the one in charge. Cause when she left, it was like, I had to kind of fucking, it was a lot, you know, um, especially in our family and especially what was going on. And so when she came back, I think I had this, like my sister's coming and like, we'll get a place together and like, We'll survive the shit that our parents put us through.
And instead we both just fucking collapsed.
There was this like small window of the hole that the two of us would be able to put our backs against each other and just fucking come out of this ugly, massive pain. And it was too late for both of us. It was devastating because I w I felt like she showed herself. Like, I felt it. I just, I hadn't broken down yet.
You know, I hadn't given into it yet. And when I saw that she was too far gone and like, we were both fine. I just started spiraling to,
I think there's only so much that like we could take growing up and like the devastation of like the responsibility and the lack of like support and love and like anything that would be. Be a fucking cushion for us. Um, and it took 10 years. Both of us just kind of banging our heads against the walls and like hoping for a fucking early grave.
Uh,
it's got wrenching to think of that time because. And I think that was like where I was like, we're fucked, we're fucked. And then, um, here we are today, you know,
My sister's always like, been like everything, you know, she's my full blood. And like we shared a bed for 10 years and it felt like for 10 years separated by this like heavy fog, just feeling around in this heavy fog and like just terrified. And like we finally found each other in the fog.
And the thing is like, the fog is still there, but we were holding on to each other now,
but, you know, I think it's always going to be that way with Liz and I, cause, cause we're so close in age because, you know, because we're just like, our DNA is the exact same in like. I think it's going to be that way. I think, I mean, we found each other again and we found ourselves still fucking foggy, man, but whatever next time.
Dylan was four when I met Angelina's dad. And, um, that was a nightmare from start to finish. And that's all I'll say about that. Thanks for listening. Made it. Season one, stay Savage is a chooser struggle. And a member of the shameless podcast network. I'm Jay Schiffman, narrator, producer, and founder of choose your struggle special.
Thanks to Lauren Schiffman and Steve Schiffman for their help on this show, the theme song was composed by me and built on the song. All that by Ben sound, the made it theme you hear in episode 10 was composed by lettuce and Rob devious, all interviews for the show were given freely and no payment was received by anyone for providing an interview for this show, all views expressed by those interviewed are their own.
For more info, please see your show notes or learn more@chooseyourstruggle.com.