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In this episode of Sober Banter, Rachel and Colin welcome Adam Lyons, host of The Modern Meeting podcast, for an honest exploration of how chasing losses drives gambling addiction and how recovery is possible. Adam shares his personal journey through nearly twenty years of compulsive gambling, highlighting the powerful role of online media normalization and how gambling apps and social platforms quietly encourage risky behavior. The conversation dives deep into the overlap between gambling and alcohol use, revealing the challenges of breaking free when both addictions are present. Listeners will learn why chasing losses becomes a dangerous trap, how support can sometimes cross into enabling, and what real recovery looks like beyond just willpower. Whether you’re in recovery, questioning your relationship with gambling or alcohol, or supporting a loved one, this episode offers insight, hope, and actionable advice.
- (00:00) - Early Gambling, Poker, and the Illusion of Control
- (00:55) - A Spiritual Awakening in Oklahoma
- (07:30) - “Living Dirty” and Normalizing Chaos
- (08:37) - When Did Gambling Become a Problem?
- (14:27) - The Cycle of Chasing Losses
- (20:00) - Desperation and Survival Mode
- (25:17) - YouTubers and the Glorification of Gambling
- (31:08) - How Often Is the 1-800-GAMBLER Line Used?
- (44:52) - The Reality of Living With Addiction
- (54:01) - Final Thoughts and Resources
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Creators and Guests
What is Sober Banter?
Sober Banter is a sobriety podcast for people living real life without alcohol. Hosted by Rachel and Colin, it blends honest conversation, humor, and the messy middle of recovery.
Rachel Casey (00:00:05):
Welcome to Sober Banter.
Rachel Casey (00:00:07):
I am Rachel.
Colin Casey (00:00:08):
I am Colin.
Rachel Casey (00:00:09):
I'm so glad I have a co-host today because we have another podcaster joining us on
Rachel Casey (00:00:14):
Sober Banter,
Rachel Casey (00:00:16):
Adam Lyons.
Rachel Casey (00:00:16):
He is the host of the Modern Meeting pod.
Rachel Casey (00:00:20):
Adam shares about stories from...
Rachel Casey (00:00:22):
all things of addiction but really compulsive gambling in addiction and offering
Rachel Casey (00:00:26):
support perspective and personal stories for those walking their path of recovery
Rachel Casey (00:00:34):
and whether you're sober curious or supporting someone who is having addiction or
Rachel Casey (00:00:38):
gambling or in recovery from alcohol drugs this is going to be a great episode to
Rachel Casey (00:00:44):
talk about things that are going from hiding the healing if you will so welcome
Rachel Casey (00:00:49):
adam
Adam Lyons (00:00:50):
Thank you so much for having me, guys.
Adam Lyons (00:00:51):
Appreciate it.
Rachel Casey (00:00:52):
I'm grateful that you have time to be on here.
Rachel Casey (00:00:55):
And thank you for joining us.
Rachel Casey (00:00:56):
One thing we haven't really talked about is gambling.
Rachel Casey (00:00:59):
And I wanted to just hear a little bit about your story and how you got here.
Adam Lyons (00:01:03):
I gambled for 20 years from the age of 18 to 38.
Adam Lyons (00:01:07):
I started out learning how to gamble really young.
Adam Lyons (00:01:11):
My uncle Rick,
Adam Lyons (00:01:12):
who has since passed,
Adam Lyons (00:01:13):
he was a big gambler and he was teaching me how to play craps at like nine years
Adam Lyons (00:01:17):
old.
Adam Lyons (00:01:17):
I was throwing dice against a Monopoly board folded up against my grandma's couch in Cape Cod.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
Not how to play craps.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
I can't get it.
Rachel Casey (00:01:25):
Don't understand.
Adam Lyons (00:01:26):
Do not learn how to play craps.
Rachel Casey (00:01:27):
That's crazy.
Rachel Casey (00:01:28):
At nine years old.
Adam Lyons (00:01:29):
My first vivid memory, I can remember the dice tumbling down.
Adam Lyons (00:01:32):
And my uncle, hard six, hard six, winner.
Adam Lyons (00:01:35):
And getting that money after that roll of the dice.
Adam Lyons (00:01:38):
And I was like, oh, I like this.
Adam Lyons (00:01:39):
I kind of held on to that through high school, through college.
Adam Lyons (00:01:42):
Well, through high school, I didn't really gamble because I was playing sports, keeping busy.
Adam Lyons (00:01:45):
But once I got to college,
Adam Lyons (00:01:46):
and that was right around the poker boom of 2002,
Adam Lyons (00:01:50):
2003 of Chris Moneymaker winning the World Series of Poker.
Adam Lyons (00:01:52):
For the first two years of college, I went to EMS Amherst.
Adam Lyons (00:01:55):
I went to class, barely, and I played poker.
Adam Lyons (00:01:57):
That's all I did.
Adam Lyons (00:01:58):
I didn't really socialize.
Adam Lyons (00:02:00):
I met a small group of people on my floor who all liked poker, and we were just obsessed.
Adam Lyons (00:02:05):
Online poker was still legal at that point.
Adam Lyons (00:02:07):
The money wasn't an issue because I was a college kid.
Adam Lyons (00:02:10):
I didn't have much money, but...
Adam Lyons (00:02:13):
The addiction was setting in.
Adam Lyons (00:02:14):
I can remember calling my parents saying, hey, I need a book for school.
Adam Lyons (00:02:19):
I know we got a couple of those savings bonds still left.
Adam Lyons (00:02:21):
Can you send me $100 savings bond for a book?
Adam Lyons (00:02:25):
And they're like, I thought you got all your books of the year.
Adam Lyons (00:02:26):
And so I'm 18 years old and I'm already lying.
Adam Lyons (00:02:28):
I'm already coming up with these elaborate lies.
Adam Lyons (00:02:31):
And they sent me the money and I used it to gamble.
Adam Lyons (00:02:32):
And that was just the tip of the iceberg.
Adam Lyons (00:02:34):
So I've worked in the restaurant industry for the last 20 years besides about four
Adam Lyons (00:02:38):
or five years where I worked in casinos.
Adam Lyons (00:02:40):
And I guess I can say it.
Adam Lyons (00:02:41):
I worked for MGM Resorts for four years.
Adam Lyons (00:02:43):
When I worked at Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut,
Adam Lyons (00:02:46):
That's where I was introduced to table games.
Adam Lyons (00:02:49):
That's where I was introduced to cash advances on a credit card.
Adam Lyons (00:02:52):
This is pre-recession, like 2005, 2006.
Adam Lyons (00:02:55):
I'm a 21-year-old kid, 22-year-old kid.
Adam Lyons (00:02:57):
I'm applying for a credit card, getting a $5,000 limit like nothing.
Adam Lyons (00:03:00):
So I did that three times.
Adam Lyons (00:03:02):
And over the course of a couple of years, I maxed them all out, all from gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:03:05):
And I wasn't gambling at Foxwoods.
Adam Lyons (00:03:07):
What I would do is I would drive.
Adam Lyons (00:03:09):
I was still living in Massachusetts.
Adam Lyons (00:03:10):
I was driving 75 miles one way.
Adam Lyons (00:03:13):
To go to work as a poker dealer,
Adam Lyons (00:03:15):
I would then sign what's called the EO list,
Adam Lyons (00:03:18):
where if they're not busy,
Adam Lyons (00:03:20):
you can sign yourself out,
Adam Lyons (00:03:21):
basically.
Adam Lyons (00:03:22):
No penalty, no nothing, but you don't work, obviously.
Adam Lyons (00:03:24):
So I would drive 75 miles, sign the EO.
Adam Lyons (00:03:26):
They would let me out in a half hour,
Adam Lyons (00:03:29):
and then I would drive 10 minutes down the road to Mohegan Sun and blow everything
Adam Lyons (00:03:33):
I could get my hands on.
Adam Lyons (00:03:34):
So this led to me declaring bankruptcy.
Adam Lyons (00:03:37):
I was 28 when I declared bankruptcy.
Adam Lyons (00:03:40):
That was the first of my many rock bottoms.
Adam Lyons (00:03:42):
For a few months after that, I stopped.
Adam Lyons (00:03:43):
I was embarrassed.
Adam Lyons (00:03:45):
I was broke.
Adam Lyons (00:03:46):
I was ashamed.
Adam Lyons (00:03:48):
And then,
Adam Lyons (00:03:49):
as you guys know,
Adam Lyons (00:03:49):
with addiction,
Adam Lyons (00:03:50):
the disease,
Adam Lyons (00:03:51):
after a few weeks,
Adam Lyons (00:03:52):
I get a couple of paychecks.
Adam Lyons (00:03:53):
that shame starts wearing off.
Adam Lyons (00:03:55):
And then I dabble with some Kino in a bar, do a couple of scratch tickets.
Adam Lyons (00:03:59):
And the next thing you know, I'm back at it again, full fledged.
Adam Lyons (00:04:02):
But now I need to escape, right?
Adam Lyons (00:04:04):
Now I don't want my family to see this.
Adam Lyons (00:04:07):
So I'm like, I just need a change of scenery.
Adam Lyons (00:04:09):
Right around when I turned 30, around 2010, 2011, I spent the next 10 years
Adam Lyons (00:04:16):
Living in five different cities,
Adam Lyons (00:04:18):
having 12 different addresses,
Adam Lyons (00:04:19):
always thinking,
Adam Lyons (00:04:20):
I just need to change the scenery.
Adam Lyons (00:04:22):
It's the next thing.
Adam Lyons (00:04:23):
I lived in New York.
Adam Lyons (00:04:24):
I lived back in Boston.
Adam Lyons (00:04:25):
Went out to Vegas, worked for MGM, D.C., Austin, Texas.
Adam Lyons (00:04:29):
This whirlwind of chaos for 10 years,
Adam Lyons (00:04:32):
the second half of my gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:04:34):
borrowing from people,
Adam Lyons (00:04:35):
committing illegal acts to fund my gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:04:37):
Now, I always paid my bills and I always had a job.
Adam Lyons (00:04:41):
Every spare dollar I had went to gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:04:44):
And then once I didn't make enough, I just started borrowing.
Adam Lyons (00:04:48):
It wasn't until January 30th, 2022.
Adam Lyons (00:04:52):
I moved to Austin, Texas because...
Adam Lyons (00:04:56):
At this point, I knew I had a problem, but I wasn't ready to stop.
Adam Lyons (00:04:58):
I said, you know what?
Adam Lyons (00:04:59):
Let me move to a place that there's not a casino within five hours.
Adam Lyons (00:05:03):
I'm going to go.
Adam Lyons (00:05:03):
I'm going to work in this poker room.
Adam Lyons (00:05:05):
I know the kid who's running it.
Adam Lyons (00:05:07):
I know a few people.
Adam Lyons (00:05:08):
For six months, I did that.
Adam Lyons (00:05:09):
The plan was I was going to save money.
Adam Lyons (00:05:11):
I was going to send the money to my father back up in Rhode Island.
Adam Lyons (00:05:15):
Once I hit X amount, I'm coming home, starting my life over.
Adam Lyons (00:05:19):
until the nfc championship game in 2022 when i placed a large bet on the game lost
Adam Lyons (00:05:28):
in a half drunken gambler addict mindset i did what i never thought i would do i
Adam Lyons (00:05:35):
drove five hours by myself in the middle of the night to a casino in oklahoma
Adam Lyons (00:05:40):
And I spent the next 36 hours gambling every dollar I had.
Adam Lyons (00:05:44):
I was borrowing from people.
Adam Lyons (00:05:46):
I was doing tricks with PayPal and Venmo and bouncing virtual checks.
Adam Lyons (00:05:51):
When the dust settled, I was sitting in a parking lot at five in the morning.
Adam Lyons (00:05:55):
The next day in the middle of Oklahoma, I had this feeling wash over me.
Adam Lyons (00:05:59):
I can't describe it.
Adam Lyons (00:06:01):
Through recovery, I think it's a spiritual awakening.
Adam Lyons (00:06:03):
I think it's God.
Adam Lyons (00:06:04):
I don't know what it was, but bottom line was I was sitting there looking around at like
Adam Lyons (00:06:10):
Where am I?
Adam Lyons (00:06:11):
I finally said I'm ready.
Adam Lyons (00:06:13):
Six days later, I found a 12-step meeting in Austin.
Adam Lyons (00:06:17):
It saved my life.
Adam Lyons (00:06:18):
I've never looked back.
Adam Lyons (00:06:19):
And my last bet was February 8th, 2022.
Adam Lyons (00:06:22):
Wow.
Rachel Casey (00:06:22):
That's amazing.
Adam Lyons (00:06:24):
That's like 10% of my story.
Colin Casey (00:06:25):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:06:26):
Rachel said this really dove too deep into the gambling addiction.
Colin Casey (00:06:32):
And it's heavy.
Rachel Casey (00:06:33):
I found a meme and gambling is one of those that feels it's so easy to substitute
Rachel Casey (00:06:40):
because we got sober from alcohol in 21.
Rachel Casey (00:06:43):
Right.
Rachel Casey (00:06:43):
And we're like, OK, we can't drink.
Rachel Casey (00:06:45):
Obviously, we're not doing drugs, can't do edibles, no longer smoking marijuana.
Rachel Casey (00:06:49):
We have been clean and sober.
Rachel Casey (00:06:51):
And gambling is one of those that just is so is a quick fix.
Rachel Casey (00:06:55):
It is the only thing.
Rachel Casey (00:06:57):
addiction based disorder in the dsm-5 that is not an ingestible substance that is
Rachel Casey (00:07:05):
listed under gambling use disorder and it's because your brain makes its own
Rachel Casey (00:07:12):
chemical it makes your own dopamine that it's the same as what alcohol produces
Rachel Casey (00:07:17):
only gambling can do it 100 crazy two things number one
Adam Lyons (00:07:22):
Of all the addictions,
Adam Lyons (00:07:24):
it says gambling is not going to kill you,
Adam Lyons (00:07:26):
but it's the one that makes you want to take your own life,
Adam Lyons (00:07:30):
right?
Adam Lyons (00:07:31):
And I cannot tell you how many people I've met in these 12-step rooms where their
Adam Lyons (00:07:36):
story is,
Adam Lyons (00:07:37):
I'm in another fellowship for 20 years and I'm 30 days clean from gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:07:41):
So many people, they call it living dirty, a lot of these people.
Adam Lyons (00:07:43):
They get clean from drugs and alcohol and then they start going to the casino and
Adam Lyons (00:07:47):
scratching tickets.
Adam Lyons (00:07:47):
Next thing you know, they realize that they have a problem and now they have to get help.
Rachel Casey (00:07:52):
I think what I was going to say, my mom is sober too.
Rachel Casey (00:07:55):
And we've talked about Vegas and gambling.
Rachel Casey (00:07:57):
I can see how it can intertwine.
Rachel Casey (00:07:58):
In early recovery, I actually did say I could tell that gambling was starting to substitute.
Rachel Casey (00:08:02):
And I'm like, I can't do this.
Rachel Casey (00:08:05):
I had to have more time because if you go immediately after you're doing alcohol
Rachel Casey (00:08:08):
and drugs,
Rachel Casey (00:08:09):
it produces the exact same effects,
Adam Lyons (00:08:11):
right?
Rachel Casey (00:08:11):
I don't think people are as aware about that,
Rachel Casey (00:08:13):
but there's a meme that goes around that's like,
Rachel Casey (00:08:16):
all the money I saved on drinking,
Rachel Casey (00:08:17):
I now spend on gambling.
Rachel Casey (00:08:19):
And it's like, that's just substituting one addiction for another.
Rachel Casey (00:08:22):
Living dirty, I suppose, I've never heard that either.
Rachel Casey (00:08:25):
I think as people who are sober, both from drugs and alcohol,
Rachel Casey (00:08:30):
It's such an awareness to bring like a compulsive act that there's another level of
Rachel Casey (00:08:36):
sobriety to hit.
Rachel Casey (00:08:37):
But my question for you is,
Rachel Casey (00:08:39):
did you realize the sobriety piece of the drugs and alcohol or the gambling or it
Rachel Casey (00:08:44):
was all together?
Adam Lyons (00:08:46):
So I still occasionally drink my entire life.
Adam Lyons (00:08:49):
Like during COVID, everyone's making videos and saying how they're getting drunk every night.
Adam Lyons (00:08:55):
I think I went March, April, May, June of 2020 without having a drop of alcohol.
Adam Lyons (00:09:01):
It's so weird because I have this insane disease with gambling and
Adam Lyons (00:09:07):
Yet, I have never had an issue with drugs and alcohol.
Adam Lyons (00:09:11):
When I hear people say they should abolish gambling and it's crazy what they're doing.
Adam Lyons (00:09:14):
Yes,
Adam Lyons (00:09:14):
it's crazy right now,
Adam Lyons (00:09:15):
like what the DraftKings and the FanDuls and all these people are booming to the
Adam Lyons (00:09:18):
young people.
Adam Lyons (00:09:19):
But if you can go gamble...
Adam Lyons (00:09:22):
responsibly and use it as a night out or if you're budgeting and doing it like the
Adam Lyons (00:09:27):
way I will go out and have a glass of wine at dinner or two beers after work like
Adam Lyons (00:09:33):
there's all different forms of recovery in my opinion and there's all different
Adam Lyons (00:09:36):
forms of sobriety it's just about for me it's about being honest with myself and 10
Adam Lyons (00:09:42):
years before I entered that room February 2022 I knew I had a problem gambling I
Adam Lyons (00:09:48):
never got to that point with drugs or alcohol but
Adam Lyons (00:09:52):
With the gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:09:53):
the way I look at it is the disease is always just hammering me with
Adam Lyons (00:09:57):
justifications,
Adam Lyons (00:09:58):
no matter what.
Adam Lyons (00:09:59):
I could be scrounging up chains to go to Walmart to buy frozen food because I'm
Adam Lyons (00:10:04):
broke for the next four days.
Adam Lyons (00:10:06):
And my disease will say, we just got unlucky.
Adam Lyons (00:10:08):
Like, don't worry about it.
Adam Lyons (00:10:09):
You should have saved that extra 10 bucks, but it's fine.
Adam Lyons (00:10:12):
The insanity of that, right?
Colin Casey (00:10:14):
Wasn't there something, you might have said this before,
Colin Casey (00:10:17):
that you almost get not addicted to the winning, but you get addicted to the losing.
Rachel Casey (00:10:22):
That's the difference with gambling addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:10:25):
The best example I heard,
Rachel Casey (00:10:26):
and this is not from someone who is recovering from gambling,
Rachel Casey (00:10:30):
studying addiction in school.
Rachel Casey (00:10:32):
It might not be as accurate.
Rachel Casey (00:10:33):
If it were coming from a gambler, I would probably be more willing to.
Rachel Casey (00:10:36):
This is probably true, but in roulette,
Rachel Casey (00:10:39):
you're doing red or black and it hits black that first time you're almost happy
Rachel Casey (00:10:42):
because that means you can double down and then hopefully it's red the next time
Rachel Casey (00:10:47):
but eventually it fizzes because you can't keep like unless you have infinite money
Rachel Casey (00:10:52):
but at that point there's a small in the beginning I think
Rachel Casey (00:10:57):
happiness that comes when there is a loss because there's a potential for a bigger
Rachel Casey (00:11:02):
gain but it's very subconscious and that comes much later in the stages of gambling
Rachel Casey (00:11:07):
that is not in the beginning i think that's a learned thing from when you have the
Rachel Casey (00:11:11):
experience of you've lost like three rounds and then you double down on that fourth
Rachel Casey (00:11:15):
one and then you win and then from there on out you're kind of hoping it doesn't
Rachel Casey (00:11:20):
hit so you can double a bit more it's very weird
Adam Lyons (00:11:24):
I have so many things.
Adam Lyons (00:11:25):
I don't even know where to start with that because you're right.
Adam Lyons (00:11:26):
Like that's all true.
Adam Lyons (00:11:28):
First thing I thought of as you're talking is the first time I went into that GA
Adam Lyons (00:11:33):
and I read the literature,
Adam Lyons (00:11:35):
I thought I was being punked.
Adam Lyons (00:11:37):
Someone's been following me around for the last 20 years and they are writing down
Adam Lyons (00:11:40):
exactly how I think.
Adam Lyons (00:11:42):
The dream world of gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:11:43):
To your point,
Adam Lyons (00:11:44):
there's a line in the literature that was written 60,
Adam Lyons (00:11:47):
70 years ago that says there is evidence that
Adam Lyons (00:11:51):
that a compulsive gambler subconsciously wants to lose.
Adam Lyons (00:11:55):
They want the pain because they just wanna feel something.
Adam Lyons (00:12:00):
The last five years of my gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:12:03):
especially the last two,
Adam Lyons (00:12:05):
if you watched me hit a jackpot at a casino,
Adam Lyons (00:12:08):
which I did often,
Adam Lyons (00:12:10):
when the cashier comes over and they're counting out the hundreds,
Adam Lyons (00:12:13):
this is my face.
Adam Lyons (00:12:14):
And if you're listening on an audio, it's stone face.
Adam Lyons (00:12:16):
Like I'm not, I don't feel anything.
Adam Lyons (00:12:18):
Notionless space.
Adam Lyons (00:12:19):
And it's because at that point, right in year 20 of my gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:12:25):
I'm down so much money that I would have to hit the lottery in order to be even.
Adam Lyons (00:12:31):
Early on in your gambling, you think like, okay, I had a bad year sports betting NFL.
Adam Lyons (00:12:38):
I lost $5,000 last year, so I need to win that back.
Adam Lyons (00:12:41):
But once you get to the level that I was at, you lose count.
Adam Lyons (00:12:45):
You have no idea.
Adam Lyons (00:12:46):
So subconsciously, even when I was winning,
Adam Lyons (00:12:50):
I was still down so much.
Adam Lyons (00:12:53):
And,
Adam Lyons (00:12:53):
you know,
Adam Lyons (00:12:54):
for me,
Adam Lyons (00:12:55):
it's interesting,
Adam Lyons (00:12:55):
like now with all these YouTubers and all these guys that are making these
Adam Lyons (00:12:59):
ridiculous bets and playing these ridiculous slots,
Adam Lyons (00:13:02):
high limit slots,
Adam Lyons (00:13:03):
I was the opposite.
Adam Lyons (00:13:04):
I wanted to lose by a thousand small bets.
Adam Lyons (00:13:08):
I wanted to sit at that Kino slot machine for hours.
Adam Lyons (00:13:12):
And I was too afraid to wager it all.
Adam Lyons (00:13:15):
I was the guy who wanted to bet a dollar for the thousand to one shot.
Adam Lyons (00:13:18):
And I'll do that a thousand times rather than putting up a thousand bucks for even money.
Adam Lyons (00:13:22):
If that makes sense.
Colin Casey (00:13:24):
Death by a thousand paper cuts.
Colin Casey (00:13:25):
Yes.
Colin Casey (00:13:26):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:13:27):
Which in similar fashion to alcohol,
Rachel Casey (00:13:29):
I think it gets to that same point where they,
Rachel Casey (00:13:32):
at least for me,
Rachel Casey (00:13:34):
there was definitely a point where I was drinking so much that it was like,
Rachel Casey (00:13:39):
I kind of hoped the blackout would take me out.
Rachel Casey (00:13:41):
It's,
Rachel Casey (00:13:42):
very subconscious i wouldn't say just like you probably wouldn't say like you drove
Rachel Casey (00:13:47):
to the casino to be disappointed in your mind it's like that's what's going to make
Rachel Casey (00:13:51):
you happy but then you get there and it's like or the amount of alcohol i ingest in
Rachel Casey (00:13:56):
my body it's just not it's never enough it never got that feeling away and it
Rachel Casey (00:14:02):
didn't matter whether i tried to slow my pace or be fast or i hated that i was
Rachel Casey (00:14:08):
drinking but i had to do it yeah it was the only way i knew how to survive
Adam Lyons (00:14:12):
Absolutely.
Adam Lyons (00:14:12):
And that's something I've had on The Modern Meeting, like people with alcohol addiction.
Adam Lyons (00:14:16):
And they talk about walking into the package store and they're like,
Adam Lyons (00:14:20):
I don't even want to be here.
Adam Lyons (00:14:22):
That was me taking the exit to the casino.
Adam Lyons (00:14:24):
I didn't want to do it, but I couldn't not do it.
Adam Lyons (00:14:27):
The vicious cycle for me was...
Adam Lyons (00:14:30):
From year one to year 20,
Adam Lyons (00:14:32):
the rides of the casino or the walk into the casino was always,
Adam Lyons (00:14:38):
this is the night.
Adam Lyons (00:14:40):
This is the night I'm going to hit.
Adam Lyons (00:14:41):
This is the night that I'm going to do X,
Adam Lyons (00:14:44):
Y,
Adam Lyons (00:14:44):
and Z.
Adam Lyons (00:14:45):
And I know I can't get to even,
Adam Lyons (00:14:46):
but I'm going to put a big dent.
Adam Lyons (00:14:48):
My last few years,
Adam Lyons (00:14:49):
I was walking around on my cell phone with a list of people that I owed money to.
Adam Lyons (00:14:52):
I'm going to clear that list, right?
Adam Lyons (00:14:53):
And then you get in.
Adam Lyons (00:14:55):
And you most likely, even if you win, you're going to give it back by the end of the night.
Adam Lyons (00:15:00):
And if you lose right away, now you sing.
Adam Lyons (00:15:03):
And now you enter.
Adam Lyons (00:15:04):
Can I swear on this?
Colin Casey (00:15:05):
Oh, yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:15:06):
Now you enter the fuck it phase, right?
Adam Lyons (00:15:07):
It's just like, fuck it.
Adam Lyons (00:15:08):
I want every dollar I can get my hands on.
Adam Lyons (00:15:11):
And then that's when the numb sets in.
Adam Lyons (00:15:13):
And now you're just a loser.
Adam Lyons (00:15:15):
You can't believe you did it again.
Adam Lyons (00:15:16):
And then you get out to the car in the parking lot when you have exhausted all
Adam Lyons (00:15:20):
resources and you promise yourself you're done.
Adam Lyons (00:15:23):
You say, I want to bottle this feeling up, this feeling I have right now.
Adam Lyons (00:15:26):
I don't want to do this.
Adam Lyons (00:15:28):
Please.
Adam Lyons (00:15:29):
I used to beg to God like in the worst ways,
Adam Lyons (00:15:31):
like instead of what I do now,
Adam Lyons (00:15:32):
ask him for guidance.
Adam Lyons (00:15:33):
And I used to be like, God, please let me wake up and just not want to gamble anymore.
Adam Lyons (00:15:37):
That's not how it works, right?
Adam Lyons (00:15:38):
That's not how it works, idiot.
Adam Lyons (00:15:39):
And I would wake up after crying myself to sleep with the itch and the justifications.
Adam Lyons (00:15:46):
Hey, listen, wipe them tears.
Adam Lyons (00:15:48):
This is the disease talking.
Adam Lyons (00:15:49):
Wipe them tears.
Adam Lyons (00:15:50):
Hey, we'll get it back.
Adam Lyons (00:15:52):
You're getting a paycheck in three days.
Adam Lyons (00:15:53):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:15:54):
Worst case scenario.
Adam Lyons (00:15:55):
Worst case scenario.
Adam Lyons (00:15:56):
Let's do a little overdraft on your bank of America.
Adam Lyons (00:15:58):
Right.
Adam Lyons (00:15:59):
And then.
Adam Lyons (00:16:00):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:16:01):
Whatever you got to do.
Colin Casey (00:16:02):
So not to prey on addicts,
Colin Casey (00:16:05):
but would you say the pawn shops around a casino are probably the best places to
Colin Casey (00:16:10):
find stuff?
Adam Lyons (00:16:11):
Oh my God.
Colin Casey (00:16:12):
Like you said,
Colin Casey (00:16:13):
you get to that fuck it stage and you're willing to probably pawn anything to get
Colin Casey (00:16:18):
some cash to go back in there to try to win big so you can pay whoever back.
Adam Lyons (00:16:24):
So glad that you asked this.
Adam Lyons (00:16:25):
So it's 2017, 2018.
Adam Lyons (00:16:26):
It's my first of two stints living in Vegas.
Adam Lyons (00:16:30):
I have this beautiful laptop that I had bought three months prior.
Adam Lyons (00:16:37):
A $2,200 laptop.
Adam Lyons (00:16:38):
I'm just sitting in my apartment, broke, looking around the room.
Adam Lyons (00:16:42):
Pawn Stars was on.
Adam Lyons (00:16:45):
Not on in that moment, but I knew that pawn shops were all over the place.
Adam Lyons (00:16:48):
And I'm looking around the room and I don't have any possessions.
Adam Lyons (00:16:51):
I have a shitty couch, a plastic table I got from Walmart.
Adam Lyons (00:16:54):
And on that table, I see that computer.
Adam Lyons (00:16:56):
So what can I get for that?
Adam Lyons (00:16:58):
I'm not going to sell it.
Adam Lyons (00:16:59):
I just want to pawn it.
Adam Lyons (00:17:00):
Exactly.
Adam Lyons (00:17:00):
And then I'll get it back.
Adam Lyons (00:17:01):
So for the next two weeks, the effort that I would put in
Adam Lyons (00:17:07):
to fuel and fund my gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:17:09):
if I applied that to my life,
Adam Lyons (00:17:11):
I think I'd be an astronaut or president of the United States.
Adam Lyons (00:17:14):
I went to 20 different pawn shops.
Adam Lyons (00:17:16):
I'm looking for the best price.
Adam Lyons (00:17:18):
I'm negotiating with them.
Adam Lyons (00:17:19):
I finally found a place.
Adam Lyons (00:17:22):
This $2,200 laptop, the highest I got offered was $1,200.
Adam Lyons (00:17:27):
I gave it to over 1,200 and I said, but I'm coming back to get it.
Adam Lyons (00:17:30):
And this is me trying to fight the disease,
Adam Lyons (00:17:33):
but I'm talking to a 22 year old kid who's giving me the money.
Adam Lyons (00:17:36):
I said, how long do I have to get it back?
Adam Lyons (00:17:38):
He goes, 90 days.
Adam Lyons (00:17:39):
Then we wiped the hard drive.
Adam Lyons (00:17:40):
I said, okay, I got 90 days.
Adam Lyons (00:17:41):
Awesome.
Adam Lyons (00:17:42):
I take that $1,200 after two weeks trying to find,
Adam Lyons (00:17:46):
I walk into the nearest casino,
Adam Lyons (00:17:48):
which was South Point Casino in Vegas.
Adam Lyons (00:17:50):
I lost that $1,200 in five minutes on the craps table.
Adam Lyons (00:17:53):
five minutes gone.
Adam Lyons (00:17:55):
And then,
Adam Lyons (00:17:56):
so now,
Adam Lyons (00:17:58):
cause at this point I had committed to moving back East to open MGM Springfield as
Adam Lyons (00:18:03):
a manager in the poker room.
Adam Lyons (00:18:05):
I knew I was leaving in two months.
Adam Lyons (00:18:08):
I said to myself, all right,
Adam Lyons (00:18:10):
The minute you get $1,200, you've got to go get that laptop back.
Adam Lyons (00:18:13):
In those two months, at least 10 different times, I had the money.
Adam Lyons (00:18:18):
I said, okay, I'm going to go tomorrow.
Adam Lyons (00:18:20):
And then I go to the casino.
Adam Lyons (00:18:22):
All right, I'm leaving in a week.
Adam Lyons (00:18:23):
I need this $1,200.
Adam Lyons (00:18:24):
But now I need the money to drive back east.
Adam Lyons (00:18:27):
My car's out there.
Adam Lyons (00:18:28):
You know what?
Adam Lyons (00:18:29):
I'll buy a new laptop.
Adam Lyons (00:18:30):
And I never get the laptop back.
Colin Casey (00:18:32):
When we went to Oklahoma, I mean, just riddled with pawn shops.
Colin Casey (00:18:37):
And I feel like that's how they get you.
Colin Casey (00:18:38):
Like, Vegas has gotten more family-friendly.
Colin Casey (00:18:41):
Like, Choctaw, where we just went to, it's more family.
Colin Casey (00:18:45):
They have a great outdoor pool with slide for the kids,
Colin Casey (00:18:48):
arcade,
Colin Casey (00:18:49):
which her son called kid gambling.
Colin Casey (00:18:50):
That was funny.
Rachel Casey (00:18:52):
It really is, though.
Rachel Casey (00:18:53):
Like,
Rachel Casey (00:18:53):
if you're going to try and convince me that Chuck E.
Rachel Casey (00:18:55):
Cheese is not just kids gambling,
Rachel Casey (00:18:56):
you're not going to be able to convince me.
Adam Lyons (00:18:58):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:18:59):
get tokens get prizes and i mean that hit me really normalized i took my nephew to
Adam Lyons (00:19:04):
the arcade once in a while in newport and i will say that there's been a few times
Adam Lyons (00:19:08):
where i'm playing skeeball with him and yeah like you get those things in your
Adam Lyons (00:19:11):
brain like okay yeah this is yeah no for sure yeah the lights and the sounds i mean
Colin Casey (00:19:16):
they know what they're doing to draw you in yeah the check cashing places the pawn
Rachel Casey (00:19:20):
shops price with free hotels and they'll pay for all the other things colin will
Rachel Casey (00:19:24):
joke he's like
Rachel Casey (00:19:26):
Yeah, the hotel's not free.
Rachel Casey (00:19:28):
You gamble your $300, $400, whatever, and that's what pays for our hotels.
Rachel Casey (00:19:33):
But they try to prey on the people who most likely have a problem.
Rachel Casey (00:19:39):
I mean, that's who they give the most rewards and make it seem so fun.
Adam Lyons (00:19:43):
Rachel, I was just as addicted to all of that as I was the actual gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:19:47):
I was a diamond member with Caesars.
Adam Lyons (00:19:49):
I didn't pay for a room for five years.
Adam Lyons (00:19:51):
Living in New York, I'm going to Atlantic City.
Adam Lyons (00:19:53):
I'm staying in a...
Adam Lyons (00:19:55):
2000 square foot suite, maybe even bigger, but a huge suite by myself.
Adam Lyons (00:20:00):
Miserable.
Adam Lyons (00:20:01):
I go down for three nights.
Adam Lyons (00:20:02):
I'm broke by night one and I'm just sitting there in the room for two nights.
Adam Lyons (00:20:06):
I have a casino host calling me and offering me free play.
Adam Lyons (00:20:10):
I was losing tens of thousands of dollars and I was on the low end.
Adam Lyons (00:20:13):
Some of these people that are spending that much more, I mean, they're getting flown out.
Adam Lyons (00:20:17):
They're getting everything.
Adam Lyons (00:20:18):
But yeah, like walking in.
Adam Lyons (00:20:20):
Oh, Mr. Lyons right this way.
Adam Lyons (00:20:21):
I'm not going to wait in line with the rest of the peasants.
Adam Lyons (00:20:23):
I'm going to go with a diamond check and check in right away.
Rachel Casey (00:20:26):
I feel so wrong that I get like all these diamond rewards,
Rachel Casey (00:20:30):
but complained when I was drunk,
Rachel Casey (00:20:32):
got mad,
Rachel Casey (00:20:32):
talked to a supervisor and they upgraded me.
Rachel Casey (00:20:35):
ever since i've accepted but i didn't spend that much money and so they'll send me
Rachel Casey (00:20:39):
four free nights and give me like 50 in gambling which i'm sure it's really not
Rachel Casey (00:20:44):
that much yeah the thing with mgm is if you can go up to one status more they'll
Rachel Casey (00:20:51):
let you keep doing it so what we do is we just buy in the blackjack have them
Rachel Casey (00:20:56):
register it and then we check out
Adam Lyons (00:20:57):
Trust me, there's definitely ways around it.
Adam Lyons (00:20:59):
They have credit cards you can sign up for and you get all the rewards.
Rachel Casey (00:21:01):
But no, he's such an imposter.
Adam Lyons (00:21:03):
My friends and family would always tell me, oh, cool, you had a free room.
Adam Lyons (00:21:06):
Oh, how much did you lose gambling?
Adam Lyons (00:21:07):
Oh, okay, so that was a $3,000 room, actually.
Rachel Casey (00:21:10):
You paid for it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:11):
It wasn't a free room.
Rachel Casey (00:21:12):
There was a time where I was drunk gambling where Colin was trying to get me off
Rachel Casey (00:21:16):
the table because when I would black out,
Rachel Casey (00:21:18):
I would go hard.
Rachel Casey (00:21:20):
And I don't remember doing bets and stuff.
Colin Casey (00:21:22):
Well, the scary thing for me was you were winning.
Colin Casey (00:21:24):
And I was like, all right, she's almost blackout drunk and winning.
Colin Casey (00:21:29):
And I can see the manager of the table or the pit boss just going,
Colin Casey (00:21:34):
feed her,
Colin Casey (00:21:35):
give her more drinks.
Colin Casey (00:21:36):
And I'm thinking, I got to get her off the table more than I've ever seen.
Rachel Casey (00:21:41):
And they're feeding me.
Rachel Casey (00:21:42):
I'm blackout.
Rachel Casey (00:21:44):
Like, I'm blackout drunk.
Adam Lyons (00:21:45):
Yeah, and obviously they want you to lose, but all they want you to do is play.
Adam Lyons (00:21:49):
Because if you play, you're going to lose, right?
Adam Lyons (00:21:51):
You're just going to keep playing.
Adam Lyons (00:21:53):
For all the years that I gambled, I think I was drunk while gambling maybe once or twice.
Adam Lyons (00:22:00):
That 36 hours I was in Oklahoma, not one drop of alcohol.
Adam Lyons (00:22:03):
I went out to Vegas to audition for that job I got in 2017.
Adam Lyons (00:22:08):
I was there for two days, not one drop of alcohol.
Adam Lyons (00:22:10):
I never drank when I gambled.
Adam Lyons (00:22:12):
It was so weird.
Adam Lyons (00:22:12):
I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if I did.
Rachel Casey (00:22:15):
I think the way that you describe your gambling,
Rachel Casey (00:22:18):
like you can separate that you understand when you drink,
Rachel Casey (00:22:22):
it doesn't have that same feeling.
Rachel Casey (00:22:26):
There are a lot of times that like you can cross contaminate.
Rachel Casey (00:22:29):
Like, I don't know how when you stopped gambling, but you probably didn't.
Rachel Casey (00:22:32):
Like if you would have started drinking right after, maybe it could have had a sub addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:22:37):
The way that you describe gambling,
Rachel Casey (00:22:39):
I don't necessarily feel like that when I'm going,
Rachel Casey (00:22:41):
but I feel exactly that way with alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:22:44):
like tea that I'm like I would go to the ends of the earth to make drinking okay
Rachel Casey (00:22:50):
into blackout and I relate immensely with that but it's crazy that you don't feel
Adam Lyons (00:22:55):
that way about alcohol to me that I'm like I think why I'm in a unique spot where
Adam Lyons (00:23:00):
I'm able to talk to all these different addicts and we all share this common thread
Adam Lyons (00:23:05):
when they tell me how they feel about gambling they can do it I'm like yeah that's
Adam Lyons (00:23:08):
how I feel about alcohol and now on the flip side of that recently what I've
Adam Lyons (00:23:12):
learned is that
Adam Lyons (00:23:14):
There are studies that people who are addicted to eating or overeaters,
Adam Lyons (00:23:19):
that they have the most similar feelings as gamblers.
Adam Lyons (00:23:24):
It's that instant gratification.
Adam Lyons (00:23:27):
It's the not wanting to do it when you're doing it and then having that insane
Adam Lyons (00:23:32):
guilt after the fact.
Adam Lyons (00:23:33):
It's something that I need to control.
Adam Lyons (00:23:35):
It's probably my eating.
Adam Lyons (00:23:36):
So that makes sense to me.
Adam Lyons (00:23:38):
Because that's the thing with drinking.
Adam Lyons (00:23:39):
Whenever I drink, once I hit like...
Adam Lyons (00:23:43):
three or four drinks, I just feel full and I feel gross.
Adam Lyons (00:23:45):
It's honestly a physical thing for me.
Adam Lyons (00:23:47):
I know other people who can just drink all day, like at a cookout and they're fine.
Adam Lyons (00:23:50):
I've never been able to do that, but gambling.
Rachel Casey (00:23:53):
And drinking up,
Rachel Casey (00:23:53):
that feeling of feeling ashamed goes away and you don't feel anything because you
Rachel Casey (00:23:57):
black out.
Rachel Casey (00:23:58):
And so that's where I also have eating disorder,
Rachel Casey (00:24:01):
which my psychiatrist at the time had said that binge drinking can intertwine with
Rachel Casey (00:24:08):
the binge eating because you don't have a stopping point.
Rachel Casey (00:24:10):
It is an indulgence of never enough.
Rachel Casey (00:24:14):
There was never a time with alcohol where I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:24:17):
I feel full.
Rachel Casey (00:24:18):
And then you talk about mixing those together.
Rachel Casey (00:24:20):
With Gamley, we've usually been pretty good.
Rachel Casey (00:24:23):
Our story of the first time we went,
Rachel Casey (00:24:25):
Gamley,
Rachel Casey (00:24:25):
we brought the envelopes,
Rachel Casey (00:24:26):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:24:26):
because you have,
Rachel Casey (00:24:27):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:24:27):
your per day,
Rachel Casey (00:24:28):
whatever.
Rachel Casey (00:24:28):
And his envelope said, not yours.
Rachel Casey (00:24:31):
And I was like, what the hell is this?
Rachel Casey (00:24:34):
He's like, it's not yours.
Rachel Casey (00:24:36):
And I'm like, we are newly dating, but...
Colin Casey (00:24:38):
again they're like i was like what's the envelope say this is not yours i go
Colin Casey (00:24:43):
exactly that's not yours i don't need to put my name on it but i will say that i've
Rachel Casey (00:24:49):
played poker and i'm so bad about sports betting too like i think we did for a
Rachel Casey (00:24:54):
super bowl one year and i didn't even understand the actual bet i don't have any
Rachel Casey (00:24:57):
desire to go i'm like whatever that's probably how you are with alcohol yeah you're
Rachel Casey (00:25:02):
like
(00:25:02):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:25:02):
Okay, I can't have another drink.
Rachel Casey (00:25:03):
That was my entire life.
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
All I could think about was the next drink.
Rachel Casey (00:25:06):
With gambling, it's the next bet.
Rachel Casey (00:25:08):
So it's like it's the same.
Rachel Casey (00:25:11):
It's just a different substance.
Rachel Casey (00:25:12):
But the act itself, the feeling, what you're describing, interchangeable.
Colin Casey (00:25:17):
Absolutely.
Colin Casey (00:25:18):
So I have two different questions I want to ask you.
Colin Casey (00:25:21):
How you feel about a lot of the YouTube stars glorifying betting.
Colin Casey (00:25:25):
I think the one that I see commonly is Mickey Mays or something like that.
Colin Casey (00:25:30):
He's all tatted up.
Colin Casey (00:25:32):
Oh, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, I know that guy.
Colin Casey (00:25:34):
And he seems to be a lot of social media is just this person who's the only successful gambler.
Colin Casey (00:25:40):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:25:40):
That's just something you don't want to glorify as becoming a professional gambler
Colin Casey (00:25:45):
because you're not going to win.
Rachel Casey (00:25:47):
You tried to tell me something about there's a trick in your list.
Rachel Casey (00:25:49):
I was like, there's no trick.
Rachel Casey (00:25:50):
It'll eventually, if you have endless money, maybe, but then you're probably not gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:25:55):
But yeah, let me be clear.
Adam Lyons (00:25:57):
No such thing.
Adam Lyons (00:25:58):
If you play long enough, it's a mathematical certainty.
Adam Lyons (00:26:02):
Okay?
Adam Lyons (00:26:02):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:26:03):
To Rachel's point,
Adam Lyons (00:26:04):
if you're Dana White and you have millions and millions and he has a certain level
Adam Lyons (00:26:09):
of discipline,
Adam Lyons (00:26:10):
you might be able to break even or have a short loss.
Adam Lyons (00:26:14):
You are not going to win over time.
Adam Lyons (00:26:15):
And all these YouTubers and all these guys,
Adam Lyons (00:26:17):
like the Vegas Mats and the Bretskis and the Bluffs,
Adam Lyons (00:26:20):
I've DMed all of them.
Adam Lyons (00:26:21):
I'm trying to have a conversation with them so we can show both sides.
Adam Lyons (00:26:25):
That's the worst to me because...
Adam Lyons (00:26:28):
These guys are either, I don't know if they're using their own money.
Adam Lyons (00:26:32):
I don't know if they're getting the money from their YouTube channel and they're
Adam Lyons (00:26:34):
putting it into it.
Adam Lyons (00:26:35):
I don't know if the casinos give them X amount of their losses back.
Adam Lyons (00:26:38):
But these guys were playing slot machines.
Adam Lyons (00:26:40):
You can't win.
Adam Lyons (00:26:41):
You won't win.
Adam Lyons (00:26:43):
But all they do is show their wins.
Adam Lyons (00:26:46):
They are getting inside the brains of all these young,
Adam Lyons (00:26:49):
naive people who might not even really be addicts.
Adam Lyons (00:26:53):
But they're getting those flips switched.
Rachel Casey (00:26:55):
Let me give you it this way of maybe a really good comparison of,
Rachel Casey (00:26:59):
and while the YouTubers,
Rachel Casey (00:27:00):
it might be like a longer stint.
Rachel Casey (00:27:02):
It's like the same as what I say with alcohol commercials.
Rachel Casey (00:27:06):
You get this like one minute glimpse of this glamorous party or how you see it in
Rachel Casey (00:27:11):
movies or on TV shows.
Rachel Casey (00:27:12):
They're having fun, getting drinks.
Rachel Casey (00:27:15):
They don't show the fast forward part of the losing,
Rachel Casey (00:27:19):
the hurt,
Rachel Casey (00:27:20):
the pain,
Rachel Casey (00:27:21):
the overdrafts,
Rachel Casey (00:27:22):
the driving hours and hours on end.
Rachel Casey (00:27:25):
They're showing one very little part because there is a very small five minute
Rachel Casey (00:27:29):
window of drinking that I'm not slurring.
Rachel Casey (00:27:33):
I'm probably at my mid.
Rachel Casey (00:27:35):
And that's where they're like filming the commercial, filming the YouTube.
Rachel Casey (00:27:38):
They're not showing that.
Rachel Casey (00:27:40):
The next 36 hours.
Adam Lyons (00:27:41):
You're so right because I worked in the restaurant industry forever and we have a
Adam Lyons (00:27:45):
saying,
Adam Lyons (00:27:45):
nothing good happens after midnight.
Adam Lyons (00:27:47):
Nothing good happens after midnight.
Adam Lyons (00:27:49):
And you're so right.
Adam Lyons (00:27:50):
Like, yeah, there's that.
Adam Lyons (00:27:51):
I'd say it's like an hour window in between drinks three and four where you have a buzz.
Adam Lyons (00:27:56):
Everyone's looser.
Adam Lyons (00:27:58):
Everyone's having a good time.
Adam Lyons (00:27:59):
The food's good.
Adam Lyons (00:28:00):
But once you hit that second bar,
Adam Lyons (00:28:02):
you start texting your ex or whatever it is that we do when we're drunk or
Adam Lyons (00:28:06):
whatever.
Adam Lyons (00:28:07):
If you do manage to have a decent night,
Adam Lyons (00:28:10):
you're going to wake up the next day feeling like shit.
Adam Lyons (00:28:12):
So, yeah, you're right.
Rachel Casey (00:28:13):
Or the next day you have a good night gambling and they're not showing the people
Rachel Casey (00:28:17):
that come home where they won on that slot machine,
Rachel Casey (00:28:19):
but then they go run over and they put it all on black and then they lost it and
Rachel Casey (00:28:23):
then they're taking out a loan.
Rachel Casey (00:28:24):
They're showing a very, very small, minimal part, just like when they show drinking in movies.
Rachel Casey (00:28:30):
They don't show me...
Rachel Casey (00:28:32):
passed out in a place i've not known they just show the fun part of the club and
Rachel Casey (00:28:36):
it's a very small light it's not a fair picture you're not really given the full
Rachel Casey (00:28:41):
story it's like reading a wrong pull quote you take a quote from an article and
Rachel Casey (00:28:47):
it's like that was completely out of context that is not what i meant at all think
Adam Lyons (00:28:51):
of it this way 10 years from now we obviously live life a day at a time but 10
Adam Lyons (00:28:55):
years from now
Adam Lyons (00:28:57):
God willing, we are still going to be talking about recovery.
Adam Lyons (00:29:00):
Other people are going to be talking about recovery to 12 steps.
Adam Lyons (00:29:03):
All these fucking YouTubers will not be here in 10 years.
Adam Lyons (00:29:07):
They won't be because they're either going to go broke.
Adam Lyons (00:29:09):
I don't care how much money you make from YouTube.
Adam Lyons (00:29:11):
Look at like Antoine Walker was a famous basketball player for the Celtics,
Adam Lyons (00:29:15):
like multimillionaire.
Adam Lyons (00:29:17):
He like is in debt to casinos.
Adam Lyons (00:29:19):
So there's no such thing as a winning gambler.
Rachel Casey (00:29:23):
That's why they have different rooms, too.
Rachel Casey (00:29:25):
Like you look at the high limits and it's just like with alcohol that one or two
Rachel Casey (00:29:32):
drinks will get you feeling tipsy.
Rachel Casey (00:29:33):
And then with an alcoholic, it's like doesn't do a debt.
Rachel Casey (00:29:36):
It's like your body builds this tolerance in the same sense.
Rachel Casey (00:29:39):
Oh, my God.
Adam Lyons (00:29:40):
My value of the dollar from when I first started going to casinos.
Adam Lyons (00:29:44):
And I maxed out those credit cards.
Adam Lyons (00:29:47):
A really bad night for me was losing 500 bucks.
Adam Lyons (00:29:49):
I would go with three.
Adam Lyons (00:29:51):
And if I had to go to the ATM and take out another two,
Adam Lyons (00:29:53):
at the end,
Adam Lyons (00:29:55):
I wasn't putting less than a thousand bucks on the craps table to start.
Adam Lyons (00:30:00):
I once went to Vegas for a six day trip with my family.
Adam Lyons (00:30:05):
I'd gone on a decent run winning sports betting.
Adam Lyons (00:30:09):
I went out there for six days with $14,000.
Adam Lyons (00:30:13):
It was gone by night three.
Adam Lyons (00:30:15):
You want to see someone who's depressed,
Adam Lyons (00:30:18):
have a compulsive gamble,
Adam Lyons (00:30:19):
be on vacation with his family in Vegas with no money.
Rachel Casey (00:30:21):
Oh my God.
Adam Lyons (00:30:22):
With three more days.
Adam Lyons (00:30:24):
Who doesn't like to drink?
Rachel Casey (00:30:25):
And see, the thing that we love about Vegas is I like that I've gotten the free rooms.
Rachel Casey (00:30:30):
We love it.
Rachel Casey (00:30:31):
You can go to a comedy club at any hour of the day.
Rachel Casey (00:30:35):
It's like the buffets, the food.
Adam Lyons (00:30:37):
I loved Vegas.
Adam Lyons (00:30:38):
I loved living there.
Adam Lyons (00:30:39):
I loved the weather.
Adam Lyons (00:30:40):
I loved the scenery.
Adam Lyons (00:30:42):
I loved everything about it.
Adam Lyons (00:30:44):
Unfortunately, obviously, they got slot machines in gas stations.
Adam Lyons (00:30:47):
They got slot machines in grocery stores.
Rachel Casey (00:30:49):
It's a lot.
Rachel Casey (00:30:50):
It's like the air they pump in there and make you awake.
Rachel Casey (00:30:53):
They add extra oxygen in those.
Colin Casey (00:30:55):
Yeah, I don't know if that's true, but it probably is.
Colin Casey (00:30:57):
It might be a placebo effect thing where it's like you just believe it enough to...
Colin Casey (00:31:01):
Because you do tend to just seem...
Colin Casey (00:31:04):
You can live on lack of sleep in Vegas for a day or two,
Colin Casey (00:31:08):
it seems like.
Rachel Casey (00:31:09):
Now, the thing that I will say, and I would like to know your take on this, is...
Rachel Casey (00:31:15):
I've said for a year or so now,
Rachel Casey (00:31:18):
I wish alcohol had the same warning label that gambling when you see the ads like
Rachel Casey (00:31:24):
there's help.
Rachel Casey (00:31:25):
But how often is that actually used?
Rachel Casey (00:31:27):
I mean, they talk about it and I see it on the ads.
Rachel Casey (00:31:30):
If you have a problem with alcohol, here's the thing for help.
Rachel Casey (00:31:32):
But now that I think about it,
Rachel Casey (00:31:35):
how many gamblers are actually using that as a helpline to know that they have a
Rachel Casey (00:31:39):
problem?
Adam Lyons (00:31:40):
So yeah, that's a great question.
Adam Lyons (00:31:42):
So for New England, if anyone calls 1-800-GAMBLER, I'm one of the people that answers.
Adam Lyons (00:31:47):
My phone goes off probably,
Adam Lyons (00:31:50):
if ebbs and flows,
Adam Lyons (00:31:51):
I'd say on average it probably goes off once a day.
Adam Lyons (00:31:54):
But lately, over the last three months, it's almost exclusively parents of kids.
Adam Lyons (00:32:01):
It's not even the kids calling.
Adam Lyons (00:32:03):
Part of the reason why I started the Modern Meeting is because
Adam Lyons (00:32:07):
I just don't think that the 1-800-GAMBLERS and the Problem Gambling Councils,
Adam Lyons (00:32:11):
they're all great,
Adam Lyons (00:32:11):
but it's not enough.
Adam Lyons (00:32:13):
It's just not enough.
Adam Lyons (00:32:14):
Of all the 12-step meetings,
Adam Lyons (00:32:16):
alcohol is by far the biggest and has the most members in a fellowship,
Adam Lyons (00:32:20):
but there's zero warning.
Adam Lyons (00:32:22):
Forget about certain drugs being normalized and glamorized in movies.
Adam Lyons (00:32:25):
Alcohol is just...
Adam Lyons (00:32:27):
It's alcohol.
Adam Lyons (00:32:29):
Alcohol is not a drug.
Adam Lyons (00:32:30):
You know what I mean?
Adam Lyons (00:32:31):
Which is just so sad.
Adam Lyons (00:32:32):
But to answer your question,
Adam Lyons (00:32:33):
there's a commercial with Jamie Foxx saying,
Adam Lyons (00:32:36):
give us $5 and we'll give you 200 free.
Adam Lyons (00:32:39):
And bells and whistles.
Adam Lyons (00:32:40):
And at the very bottom, if you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER.
Adam Lyons (00:32:42):
Like, come on.
Rachel Casey (00:32:43):
But that's what I was saying.
Rachel Casey (00:32:44):
Like, it almost mocks it in a way.
Colin Casey (00:32:47):
I would have said bet responsibly.
Colin Casey (00:32:48):
So do the drink.
Rachel Casey (00:32:51):
I'm like, okay, I'll be responsible in the amount I drink, which is all of it.
Rachel Casey (00:32:56):
And I used to make fun of those things.
Rachel Casey (00:32:58):
Now it's almost backwards that alcoholism is probably viewed as a very serious
Rachel Casey (00:33:03):
issue in the world.
Rachel Casey (00:33:04):
There's more awareness.
Rachel Casey (00:33:06):
We have the Surgeon General now saying there's no safe limit of alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:33:10):
It used to be one drink a day.
Rachel Casey (00:33:13):
But they don't get the warning.
Rachel Casey (00:33:14):
Almost like I don't hear as much about people recovering from gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:33:18):
But we will.
Adam Lyons (00:33:19):
Trust me.
Adam Lyons (00:33:19):
In the next five years, there is a storm coming with gambling.
Colin Casey (00:33:22):
That was my second question.
Colin Casey (00:33:24):
Just how worried are you for the future of where this thing is headed?
Colin Casey (00:33:28):
Because when I think back five years ago,
Colin Casey (00:33:32):
ESPN bet didn't exist.
Colin Casey (00:33:34):
And,
Colin Casey (00:33:35):
you know,
Colin Casey (00:33:35):
or college football,
Colin Casey (00:33:36):
Brent Musburger,
Colin Casey (00:33:37):
and then they didn't talk about the sports lines.
Colin Casey (00:33:40):
It was very hush-hush.
Colin Casey (00:33:41):
Now, all of a sudden, it's everywhere.
Colin Casey (00:33:44):
And what's even scarier is since the betting age is 18, not only...
Colin Casey (00:33:50):
come to the casino let's put the caesars or bet mgm or bet espn on your phone the
Colin Casey (00:33:57):
second most addicting device in the world and then let's put the gambling app on
Rachel Casey (00:34:02):
there the other most addicting thing in the world you're in the right state you can
Rachel Casey (00:34:07):
literally do slots on your phone
Adam Lyons (00:34:09):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:34:10):
When I think of my generation and the generations before me that ended up in these
Adam Lyons (00:34:15):
12-step rooms,
Adam Lyons (00:34:16):
we had to call a bookie.
Adam Lyons (00:34:18):
We had to go to the casino.
Adam Lyons (00:34:19):
We played poker at home.
Adam Lyons (00:34:20):
We played keno in the bars.
Adam Lyons (00:34:22):
And you would never hear...
Adam Lyons (00:34:27):
Anybody outside of Vegas talk about the spread or the over under or the line that
Adam Lyons (00:34:31):
was Pete Rose never got in the Hall of Fame because he bet on baseball.
Adam Lyons (00:34:34):
You cannot turn on any major sports network at this point without on the bottom of the screen.
Adam Lyons (00:34:41):
It's saying the spread of every single game and every single sport.
Adam Lyons (00:34:44):
If you watch a basketball game at halftime,
Adam Lyons (00:34:47):
they'll give you the updated lines,
Adam Lyons (00:34:48):
the live lines that you can bet.
Adam Lyons (00:34:50):
It's not just Michigan and Nevada.
Adam Lyons (00:34:53):
In multiple states in this country,
Adam Lyons (00:34:54):
whatever there is at the physical casino is now available on your phone.
Adam Lyons (00:35:00):
And so you can play craps in your phone.
Adam Lyons (00:35:02):
You can play roulette.
Adam Lyons (00:35:03):
You can play blackjack.
Adam Lyons (00:35:04):
You can play whatever you want on your phone.
Adam Lyons (00:35:07):
So to answer your question, yeah, this thing is going to explode because...
Adam Lyons (00:35:14):
It's already at your fingertips.
Adam Lyons (00:35:15):
Every day, I still go to a meeting twice a week.
Adam Lyons (00:35:19):
I'd say 90% of the new people that come through the door, it's all the same story.
Adam Lyons (00:35:24):
It's on my phone.
Adam Lyons (00:35:24):
It was on my phone.
Adam Lyons (00:35:25):
I'm playing blackjack on the way to work.
Adam Lyons (00:35:27):
I'm spinning roulette while I'm sitting on the toilet.
Adam Lyons (00:35:29):
You can use credit cards.
Adam Lyons (00:35:30):
You can do cash advances on your phone to gamble.
Adam Lyons (00:35:33):
So that's why I'm so passionate about the Modern Meeting,
Adam Lyons (00:35:38):
and I'm so grateful I got into these rooms when I did because...
Adam Lyons (00:35:42):
Within a few months of me getting help is when all this exploded on the phones.
Adam Lyons (00:35:47):
So I don't know.
Adam Lyons (00:35:48):
If I waited, I don't know if I'd be here.
Rachel Casey (00:35:50):
Say,
Rachel Casey (00:35:50):
and then the extra layer of manipulation,
Rachel Casey (00:35:53):
and this is the same with alcohol,
Rachel Casey (00:35:55):
is that the ones making all the money are the casinos.
Rachel Casey (00:36:00):
So during Super Bowl, the ads are the most expensive, right?
Rachel Casey (00:36:03):
That's what it's known for.
Rachel Casey (00:36:04):
It's a very expensive spot to have.
Rachel Casey (00:36:06):
But it's filled with...
Rachel Casey (00:36:09):
online betting of this five dollars input 200 output it's filled with these
Rachel Casey (00:36:14):
alcoholic uh here's all the different beer and liquor commercials but they're the
Rachel Casey (00:36:19):
only ones able to buy it and no one's questioning science for the money going there
Rachel Casey (00:36:24):
and they're making it in whatever view they want you to see it yeah they have
Rachel Casey (00:36:29):
control of the market
Adam Lyons (00:36:30):
And what these companies are doing, too, is they're doing the research.
Adam Lyons (00:36:34):
They're figuring out exactly what is going to make that 18-year-old kid download the app.
Adam Lyons (00:36:42):
What is it?
Adam Lyons (00:36:42):
There's no catch, buddy.
Adam Lyons (00:36:43):
Put in five bucks, make a bet, and we'll give you 200.
Adam Lyons (00:36:48):
Who's not going to at least do that?
Adam Lyons (00:36:51):
And that out of all those people, how many are going to get hooked?
Adam Lyons (00:36:54):
Because here's the thing about gambling, right?
Adam Lyons (00:36:56):
The one thing about gambling is that we live in this dream world.
Adam Lyons (00:37:00):
But every once in a while, we win.
Adam Lyons (00:37:02):
So for me, quick story.
Adam Lyons (00:37:05):
2018, I am in Twin River Casino in Lincoln, Rhode Island.
Adam Lyons (00:37:10):
I'm down to my last $150.
Adam Lyons (00:37:11):
Another crazy marathon night.
Adam Lyons (00:37:14):
Adam got out of work, drove to the casino, went with $1,000.
Adam Lyons (00:37:17):
He's down to $150.
Adam Lyons (00:37:19):
walking around on his phone with 12 people that he owes $12,000 to.
Adam Lyons (00:37:24):
In 20 minutes, I turned $150 into $15,000 at the craps table.
Adam Lyons (00:37:29):
My biggest win of my life.
Adam Lyons (00:37:31):
I'm literally tears in my eyes, thanking God at the table.
Adam Lyons (00:37:33):
It's five in the morning.
Adam Lyons (00:37:35):
I paid everyone off on my phone,
Adam Lyons (00:37:36):
but of course I called them all like they were of credit card companies and I'm
Adam Lyons (00:37:40):
negotiating with them.
Adam Lyons (00:37:40):
I didn't tell them that I won.
Adam Lyons (00:37:41):
I said, Hey, I came into a little bit of money.
Adam Lyons (00:37:43):
I know I owe you 800.
Adam Lyons (00:37:44):
Would you take five?
Adam Lyons (00:37:45):
And of course they all said yes.
Adam Lyons (00:37:46):
Right.
Adam Lyons (00:37:46):
Scumbag behavior.
Adam Lyons (00:37:48):
But of course I paid them all off.
Adam Lyons (00:37:52):
I'm debt free on the street.
Adam Lyons (00:37:54):
At least,
Adam Lyons (00:37:54):
you know,
Adam Lyons (00:37:55):
within six months I have a new list of 10 people and I'm down all that money.
Adam Lyons (00:37:58):
But from that point until the end,
Adam Lyons (00:38:03):
I chased that role.
Adam Lyons (00:38:04):
And it's like, well, how do you, you know, the odds of you hitting that are astronomical.
Adam Lyons (00:38:09):
You should be lucky you did it.
Adam Lyons (00:38:10):
But guess what?
Adam Lyons (00:38:10):
I did it.
Adam Lyons (00:38:11):
So the addict mind is like, if I did it, I can do it again.
Adam Lyons (00:38:15):
I watched it happen.
Adam Lyons (00:38:16):
And so that's the disease of gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:38:18):
You're never going to talk to a gambler who hasn't won or hit big.
Adam Lyons (00:38:23):
Most compulsive gamblers have all hit big.
Adam Lyons (00:38:25):
Some of these people that take the picture with the lottery,
Adam Lyons (00:38:27):
with the big checks,
Adam Lyons (00:38:28):
they're in these GA rooms.
Adam Lyons (00:38:30):
Millions they gave back.
Adam Lyons (00:38:33):
So, I mean, that's the hardest thing.
Adam Lyons (00:38:35):
When I see these people come into these rooms or when people reach out to me on the
Adam Lyons (00:38:39):
modern meeting and I say,
Adam Lyons (00:38:40):
listen,
Adam Lyons (00:38:41):
it's okay if you're not ready.
Adam Lyons (00:38:43):
It took me 20 years to admit that I was ready.
Adam Lyons (00:38:46):
So this 25-year-old kid who's been gambling since he's 18 and he's broke,
Adam Lyons (00:38:50):
he lost his girlfriend,
Adam Lyons (00:38:51):
he's this,
Adam Lyons (00:38:51):
he's that,
Adam Lyons (00:38:53):
but he goes back out and gambles after he talks to me.
Adam Lyons (00:38:56):
It's like, well, it's because you're not ready.
Adam Lyons (00:38:57):
And the only person, step one of the 12 steps, as you guys know, it's
Adam Lyons (00:39:01):
You have to admit that you're powerless.
Adam Lyons (00:39:02):
You have to surrender.
Rachel Casey (00:39:03):
You have to admit you have a problem.
Colin Casey (00:39:04):
So knowing that, what do you say to the parents?
Colin Casey (00:39:08):
Because you said that that's who's calling you now.
Colin Casey (00:39:11):
The parents.
Colin Casey (00:39:12):
What do you say to them?
Colin Casey (00:39:13):
Because we all know you're not going to stop until you're ready to stop.
Adam Lyons (00:39:17):
So the first thing I say is there's a word that I want you to remember forever,
Adam Lyons (00:39:22):
and that's bailout.
Adam Lyons (00:39:24):
You cannot bail out your son or daughter no matter what.
Adam Lyons (00:39:28):
They're going to tell you that this money is for...
Adam Lyons (00:39:32):
My roommate didn't pay the rent and I need to do this or I need to pay.
Adam Lyons (00:39:36):
It's a lie.
Adam Lyons (00:39:37):
It's to gamble.
Adam Lyons (00:39:38):
Part of my reason that it lasted 20 years is because I kept getting bailed out.
Adam Lyons (00:39:41):
My parents kept bailing me out.
Adam Lyons (00:39:43):
My friends kept bailing me out.
Adam Lyons (00:39:44):
I was like a shark smelling blood in the water.
Adam Lyons (00:39:46):
If I had a friend who I knew had money,
Adam Lyons (00:39:48):
I would overdraft the account $1,000 knowing that I could pull in his heartstrings
Adam Lyons (00:39:52):
and get him to give me a thousand bucks.
Adam Lyons (00:39:54):
So if all these people didn't do that, I might've found that room sooner.
Adam Lyons (00:39:57):
So what I tell these parents is I know it hurts.
Adam Lyons (00:40:00):
You want to love and support them and you want to bring them to that meeting.
Adam Lyons (00:40:02):
Don't give them money.
Adam Lyons (00:40:03):
You cannot give them money under any circumstance.
Adam Lyons (00:40:07):
And it's hard for them because it's like, well, what if the bookie is going to break their legs?
Adam Lyons (00:40:10):
Well, I don't know.
Adam Lyons (00:40:12):
It's that's, that's the catch 20.
Adam Lyons (00:40:13):
What I say to people, it's like, or what if my kid ends up homeless or this or that?
Adam Lyons (00:40:16):
It's like, think about it this way.
Adam Lyons (00:40:18):
If your kid hits rock bottom and then is homeless for a few months,
Adam Lyons (00:40:22):
would you trade that and then he gets on his feet and stays sober?
Adam Lyons (00:40:25):
Would you trade that for bailing him out and making this go on for years?
Adam Lyons (00:40:30):
Of course you would.
Adam Lyons (00:40:31):
If I'm in a parent's shoes, I can't say that.
Adam Lyons (00:40:34):
It's easier to say that than do it,
Adam Lyons (00:40:35):
to ignore that your kid needs money for a hole they put themselves in.
Adam Lyons (00:40:39):
But that's the first thing I tell all these parents.
Adam Lyons (00:40:41):
You can't bail them out.
Rachel Casey (00:40:43):
It feels like...
Rachel Casey (00:40:46):
You're not helping your kid, but really like that's the best thing you can do.
Rachel Casey (00:40:50):
And obviously when it comes to addiction, there is no one cookie cutter size fits all.
Rachel Casey (00:40:56):
The thing we learn about recovery is the uniqueness.
Rachel Casey (00:41:00):
We're not really that unique.
Rachel Casey (00:41:02):
When it comes down to it, the...
Rachel Casey (00:41:05):
Disease is usually in charge.
Rachel Casey (00:41:07):
People will go down far to hold on to their addiction because that's what their
Rachel Casey (00:41:12):
brain is telling them.
Rachel Casey (00:41:14):
It's just one more day of homelessness and then we get paid.
Rachel Casey (00:41:16):
When the never becomes the actuality is when the disease has a chance.
Rachel Casey (00:41:22):
Be like, maybe this is a problem, but you've got to let them hit that.
Rachel Casey (00:41:26):
And you cannot just speak it to them.
Adam Lyons (00:41:28):
I knew I had that safety net no matter what I did, no matter how much I lost.
Adam Lyons (00:41:32):
I knew I could always get my parents to bail me out.
Rachel Casey (00:41:36):
And that's what the disease will hold on to that safety net like you would not believe.
Rachel Casey (00:41:42):
And no one understands that phrase unless you've been in addiction and came out.
Rachel Casey (00:41:46):
People are like, I just don't get it.
Rachel Casey (00:41:48):
Well,
Rachel Casey (00:41:48):
congratulations that you don't get it because if you don't get it,
Rachel Casey (00:41:51):
that means you haven't been through it.
Rachel Casey (00:41:53):
But I did everything I could to hold on to alcohol as long as I possibly could
Rachel Casey (00:41:57):
until I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:41:59):
I can't do this anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:42:00):
I got really lucky that it happened when it happened.
Adam Lyons (00:42:03):
I can remember driving to that meeting with my buddy,
Adam Lyons (00:42:05):
Phil,
Adam Lyons (00:42:05):
shout out Phil,
Adam Lyons (00:42:06):
who was my coworker.
Adam Lyons (00:42:08):
And he came with me as support to my very first meeting.
Adam Lyons (00:42:10):
I can remember telling him like, listen, I don't think it's the gambling.
Adam Lyons (00:42:13):
I think I just need to get in shape or I think I just need to settle down, find a girlfriend.
Adam Lyons (00:42:17):
The gambling is just a product of my depression.
Adam Lyons (00:42:20):
And then 10 minutes into the meeting, wow, was I wrong?
Adam Lyons (00:42:23):
You know what I mean?
Adam Lyons (00:42:24):
The gambling is exactly like, it's reversed.
Adam Lyons (00:42:27):
The gambling is causing all that other stuff.
Adam Lyons (00:42:29):
I can't imagine, I mean, God willing, day at a time, things happen.
Adam Lyons (00:42:33):
But even if I get urges,
Adam Lyons (00:42:34):
once in a while,
Adam Lyons (00:42:35):
if I have a dream or if I'm just thinking about it,
Adam Lyons (00:42:38):
all I have to do is go three steps ahead and realize it always ends in misery.
Adam Lyons (00:42:44):
Always.
Adam Lyons (00:42:44):
No matter what.
Rachel Casey (00:42:45):
And that's the same for me with drinking.
Rachel Casey (00:42:48):
It's always...
Colin Casey (00:42:50):
Well, I know early on in my sobriety, you'd have those first month or two.
Colin Casey (00:42:55):
You have those like what if scenarios like what if I just take one shot?
Colin Casey (00:43:00):
And I would always think of like, what would be the point of that?
Colin Casey (00:43:03):
Go home and I would just be one shot in when it takes like it wouldn't even be
Colin Casey (00:43:08):
enough to get me tipsy.
Colin Casey (00:43:09):
I would literally be taking one shot for no reason or benefit.
Adam Lyons (00:43:13):
Yeah, that's why I moved to Austin.
Adam Lyons (00:43:15):
What if I just played poker and sports?
Adam Lyons (00:43:17):
Yep.
Adam Lyons (00:43:17):
The casinos are the worst things for me.
Rachel Casey (00:43:19):
Same with alcohol gets to a bigger and bigger place.
Colin Casey (00:43:23):
My other quick question is if you can gamble responsibly,
Colin Casey (00:43:26):
just like drinking responsibly,
Colin Casey (00:43:29):
what are your opinions on the age restriction for gambling?
Colin Casey (00:43:32):
Do you think they need to move the age limit?
Adam Lyons (00:43:34):
Honestly,
Adam Lyons (00:43:35):
recovery three years and almost four months and been doing the modern meeting for
Adam Lyons (00:43:38):
six months.
Adam Lyons (00:43:39):
No one has ever asked me that.
Adam Lyons (00:43:40):
So I love that.
Adam Lyons (00:43:41):
The first thing that popped in my head was like,
Adam Lyons (00:43:43):
I kind of feel the same way about drinking.
Adam Lyons (00:43:45):
If someone can vote and go to war,
Adam Lyons (00:43:47):
they should be able to have a drink and I feel like they should go to a place of
Adam Lyons (00:43:50):
bet.
Adam Lyons (00:43:51):
The age restrictions, I don't think it would do anything.
Adam Lyons (00:43:54):
If a kid couldn't bet on his phone, he would find a bookie.
Adam Lyons (00:43:57):
And if a kid couldn't find a bookie, he would go to an Indian casino that is 18 plus.
Adam Lyons (00:44:02):
So...
Adam Lyons (00:44:04):
Where there's a will, there's a way.
Adam Lyons (00:44:05):
When I was living in Boston, this is around 2016, so I'm still six years away from getting help.
Adam Lyons (00:44:12):
I self-excluded myself from Foxwoods and Mohegan, so I couldn't go.
Adam Lyons (00:44:16):
And I really thought that this was going to make a difference.
Adam Lyons (00:44:18):
But what did I do?
Adam Lyons (00:44:19):
I played more keno.
Adam Lyons (00:44:20):
I played more poker.
Adam Lyons (00:44:22):
And I ended up moving to fucking Vegas.
Adam Lyons (00:44:25):
You know, I said that the reason I went to Vegas was because I want a fresh start.
Adam Lyons (00:44:29):
No, it's because I couldn't gamble anymore.
Adam Lyons (00:44:30):
Right.
Adam Lyons (00:44:31):
That's all it is.
Rachel Casey (00:44:31):
So we can manipulate any situation.
Rachel Casey (00:44:34):
We will find a way.
Adam Lyons (00:44:36):
Yeah, for sure.
Adam Lyons (00:44:37):
But do I think that there should be some type of it should not be on phones?
Adam Lyons (00:44:41):
I agree with literally they almost banned TikTok.
Adam Lyons (00:44:44):
You should only be able to gamble in a casino and
Adam Lyons (00:44:48):
I agree with that completely.
Rachel Casey (00:44:49):
My husband might need to cover his ears,
Rachel Casey (00:44:52):
but I'm going to just ask this for half comedy,
Rachel Casey (00:44:55):
half real.
Rachel Casey (00:44:57):
Should fancy football be considered gambling?
Rachel Casey (00:45:01):
Because the obsession that happens with this man to my right.
Rachel Casey (00:45:05):
When I told him I had an eating disorder and I go to meetings for that,
Rachel Casey (00:45:10):
he's like,
Rachel Casey (00:45:11):
I have a disorder with fantasy football.
Rachel Casey (00:45:12):
I care.
Rachel Casey (00:45:13):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:45:14):
And he cares too much.
Rachel Casey (00:45:16):
And he's like,
Rachel Casey (00:45:17):
I bond with friends because he's over there texting and looking up so-and-so
Rachel Casey (00:45:21):
players.
Rachel Casey (00:45:22):
And I'm like, maybe fantasy football should be off of her.
Colin Casey (00:45:25):
But it's not daily fantasy.
Colin Casey (00:45:27):
It's just, you know, your old school fantasy.
Adam Lyons (00:45:29):
So if there's one thing that I am a little bummed out about,
Adam Lyons (00:45:33):
about my sobriety is that I can't do my family fantasy football league and that
Adam Lyons (00:45:40):
fantasy football is gambling,
Adam Lyons (00:45:41):
right?
Adam Lyons (00:45:42):
Like we can't, but you have a problem.
Adam Lyons (00:45:45):
No, but I never ever got like, I would get more out of,
Adam Lyons (00:45:52):
A $5 poker game with my grandma than I did playing fantasy football.
Adam Lyons (00:45:58):
Like fantasy football for me was more about the camaraderie and just about making
Adam Lyons (00:46:02):
Sunday more exciting.
Adam Lyons (00:46:03):
But I never looked at fantasy the way I looked at any type.
Rachel Casey (00:46:07):
Yeah, I'm joking.
Rachel Casey (00:46:08):
I know that he doesn't either.
Adam Lyons (00:46:09):
No,
Adam Lyons (00:46:09):
but there are some that,
Adam Lyons (00:46:10):
you know,
Adam Lyons (00:46:11):
the buy-in is thousands of dollars and you're going to pay X amount for every trade
Adam Lyons (00:46:15):
you do or every waiver wire.
Rachel Casey (00:46:16):
I don't think it's a legal buy-in.
Rachel Casey (00:46:18):
I think it's like you play with for free, or at least on Yahoo anyway.
Rachel Casey (00:46:21):
The commissioner collects money, even though it doesn't bring you the same amount of joy.
Rachel Casey (00:46:25):
That would be like equivalent to like an alcoholic saying,
Rachel Casey (00:46:28):
I didn't enjoy a beer,
Rachel Casey (00:46:30):
but I can just go have a beer.
Adam Lyons (00:46:31):
Yeah,
Adam Lyons (00:46:32):
I mean,
Adam Lyons (00:46:32):
as I'm getting more into meeting people in the recovery space,
Adam Lyons (00:46:36):
I meet a lot of people who are in recovery but don't go to a 12-step meeting.
Adam Lyons (00:46:41):
You might talk to them and they might say that fantasy football is okay as long as
Adam Lyons (00:46:44):
you're not putting any money on it,
Adam Lyons (00:46:46):
right?
Adam Lyons (00:46:47):
Which, I don't know.
Adam Lyons (00:46:48):
For me, that sounds a lot like a prelapse, right?
Adam Lyons (00:46:51):
That sounds like some seeds being planted in your brain.
Adam Lyons (00:46:54):
And so I just would never mess it up.
Rachel Casey (00:46:56):
feel about non-alcoholic drinks I don't beer the non-alcoholic beers or wines and
Rachel Casey (00:47:01):
in my mind it's like I don't want to normalize drinking again and I'm not to the
Rachel Casey (00:47:07):
point where I'm like oh I'm gonna have a sip
Rachel Casey (00:47:10):
But I just don't like the impersonation of it.
Rachel Casey (00:47:13):
And it makes me kind of upset that I have to conform to you.
Rachel Casey (00:47:16):
You know, like, how about I just don't drink because I'm an alcoholic?
Adam Lyons (00:47:20):
No,
Adam Lyons (00:47:20):
it's the same when I'm bartending and someone I'm working with is staring at the TV
Adam Lyons (00:47:27):
the whole shift.
Adam Lyons (00:47:28):
And they're like, oh, I just lost my parlay and this and that.
Adam Lyons (00:47:31):
And I just want to be like, bro, like, you want to know how this ends?
Adam Lyons (00:47:34):
Whether you're an addict or not, you're not going to win.
Adam Lyons (00:47:37):
And that's the other thing that's so irresponsible and so fucked up about all these
Adam Lyons (00:47:41):
influencers and all these people that post it.
Adam Lyons (00:47:43):
Like someone, for instance, like Dave Portnoy.
Adam Lyons (00:47:46):
I really like Dave Portnoy.
Adam Lyons (00:47:47):
I like most of everything he represents.
Adam Lyons (00:47:48):
But he puts up like a daily...
Adam Lyons (00:47:51):
four or five leg parlay sponsored by draft Kings that he has tens of thousands of
Adam Lyons (00:47:57):
people following him on that bet.
Adam Lyons (00:47:59):
And guess what?
Adam Lyons (00:48:00):
It never hits.
Adam Lyons (00:48:01):
And the one time it does hit at seven to one, they just lost 15 straight before that.
Adam Lyons (00:48:08):
So to my earlier point, even when you win, you're still losing.
Adam Lyons (00:48:11):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:48:12):
And that's the most fucked up part about the last two years of just the marketing
Adam Lyons (00:48:15):
of this is that it's literally creating a brand new,
Adam Lyons (00:48:21):
epidemic I hope I'm being dramatic I really do I think that when we come back maybe
Rachel Casey (00:48:28):
in the future we can have like a regathering that we can be like hey let's look at
Rachel Casey (00:48:33):
our talk five years ago and maybe we're like we weren't being dramatic enough
Rachel Casey (00:48:37):
I really have felt like maybe we weren't so early to the sober game as we thought
Rachel Casey (00:48:41):
because there's so many others.
Rachel Casey (00:48:43):
But now I'm like, I think we might be in the early stages, to be honest.
Rachel Casey (00:48:47):
And it's like getting to that point where you're realizing how many people actually
Rachel Casey (00:48:51):
have a problem with it.
Rachel Casey (00:48:52):
And identifying with others is really the connection that comes from that addiction
Rachel Casey (00:48:59):
is more powerful than the addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:49:01):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:49:01):
And that's why your podcast is so important and why all of our podcasts are so
Adam Lyons (00:49:05):
important because for each of us that goes and tells our story and puts it out
Adam Lyons (00:49:10):
there,
Adam Lyons (00:49:10):
even if that gets one or two people to tell their story or to go to a meeting or to
Adam Lyons (00:49:15):
just tell their spouse or their loved one,
Adam Lyons (00:49:18):
like I have a problem,
Adam Lyons (00:49:19):
you got to keep going.
Adam Lyons (00:49:19):
We got to keep spreading awareness and we just got to keep trying to break down
Adam Lyons (00:49:23):
that stigma,
Adam Lyons (00:49:24):
you know?
Rachel Casey (00:49:26):
And I think the name of your podcast is just so creative in even I like modern meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:49:32):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:49:32):
For someone I'm 31.
Rachel Casey (00:49:34):
I want to go to a modern meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:49:36):
Like that sounds fantastic because before I went to AA, I didn't know.
Colin Casey (00:49:41):
And it feels so old and decrepit.
Rachel Casey (00:49:43):
Oh yeah.
Colin Casey (00:49:44):
And they're going to dark and gloomy or yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:49:47):
And so I think you're spreading awareness.
Rachel Casey (00:49:50):
It's going to have to come to a head at some point.
Adam Lyons (00:49:52):
For sure.
Adam Lyons (00:49:53):
The bubble's going to burst.
Adam Lyons (00:49:54):
And I say this all the time, as gambling is evolving, so needs to gambling recovery.
Adam Lyons (00:50:01):
We can't just rely on the church basements and our sponsors and the 12 steps and
Adam Lyons (00:50:06):
the yellow book.
Adam Lyons (00:50:07):
We need more.
Adam Lyons (00:50:08):
We need to go toe to toe with this ever changing,
Adam Lyons (00:50:11):
ever evolving technology driven monster that is gambling.
Rachel Casey (00:50:15):
Thank you for being literally Sober Manter's first gambling addiction.
Colin Casey (00:50:19):
This was awesome.
Colin Casey (00:50:20):
I thought it was really fun.
Rachel Casey (00:50:21):
I say I'm an expert in anything,
Rachel Casey (00:50:23):
but like says someone,
Rachel Casey (00:50:25):
thank you for being the first person who's been on the podcast isn't also in
Rachel Casey (00:50:27):
gambling addiction because there is a lot of cross addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:50:30):
Thank you for being open and honest and willing to tell your story,
Rachel Casey (00:50:33):
even if it's not one of the more common addictions,
Rachel Casey (00:50:36):
even though it's probably more common than we think.
Rachel Casey (00:50:39):
I can't wait to share this because I think it's such a different perspective that
Rachel Casey (00:50:43):
gives a lot of insight.
Colin Casey (00:50:44):
No, thank you for having me, guys.
Colin Casey (00:50:45):
Rachel Collin, this was amazing.
Colin Casey (00:50:47):
Getting it out there because,
Colin Casey (00:50:48):
yeah,
Colin Casey (00:50:50):
there's got to be more done than just the basements and churches or 12 Steps.
Rachel Casey (00:50:55):
And being in these uncomfortable questions where it's like,
Rachel Casey (00:50:58):
that's what sober banter was supposed to be for.
Rachel Casey (00:51:00):
It's supposed to be like a, hey, let's ask.
Rachel Casey (00:51:03):
Like,
Rachel Casey (00:51:04):
I wouldn't normally,
Rachel Casey (00:51:04):
if I meet someone who does have a gambling addiction,
Rachel Casey (00:51:07):
I'm not going to just ask some of the questions I thought.
Rachel Casey (00:51:11):
Like, what do you think of the 1-800 numbers?
Rachel Casey (00:51:13):
I don't typically talk about my drunkenness or being drunk on the gambling table or
Rachel Casey (00:51:17):
college having to pull me off because I was blacked out.
Rachel Casey (00:51:20):
But that's the truth.
Rachel Casey (00:51:21):
And that's what I need people to see.
Colin Casey (00:51:23):
You were playing blackjack and it was during COVID and they were saying,
Colin Casey (00:51:27):
actually,
Colin Casey (00:51:28):
you need to have a gas.
Colin Casey (00:51:29):
I was like, no, that's my wife.
Colin Casey (00:51:31):
I'm trying to get her off the table.
Colin Casey (00:51:33):
Oh, that's funny.
Colin Casey (00:51:34):
But they're like, well, COVID protocol, you actually have.
Rachel Casey (00:51:36):
I don't remember again.
Rachel Casey (00:51:37):
So like it was the way that I drank overtook everything else.
Rachel Casey (00:51:44):
Alcohol was like my number one drug, but I definitely gambled more than
Rachel Casey (00:51:49):
loosely and ridiculously when i was drinking and i'd wake up and be like i don't
Rachel Casey (00:51:53):
remember doing any of that i think that they do coincide in that way but in
Rachel Casey (00:51:58):
sobriety i've had to be careful because if i feel like i want to go chase a dragon
Rachel Casey (00:52:04):
i can tell you that this is my wanting to fill that void that alcohol gave gambling
Rachel Casey (00:52:10):
can be a close second but not in the way even that you described but
Rachel Casey (00:52:15):
I can see it substituting,
Rachel Casey (00:52:17):
just like I'm sure there could get to a point like if any gambler,
Rachel Casey (00:52:20):
not just you,
Rachel Casey (00:52:21):
but anyone was having a bad day and you substitute alcohol and it kind of gives
Rachel Casey (00:52:25):
that feeling.
Rachel Casey (00:52:26):
It's all about time setting place.
Rachel Casey (00:52:29):
But my main drug of choice, which it sounds like yours was gambling, mine was alcohol.
(00:52:34):
For sure.
Rachel Casey (00:52:35):
But I can relate.
Rachel Casey (00:52:35):
I still don't understand.
Rachel Casey (00:52:37):
I didn't understand the lines back then.
Rachel Casey (00:52:38):
And they're like, lines are moving.
Rachel Casey (00:52:39):
And I'm like, where are the lines?
Rachel Casey (00:52:41):
Not the line.
Rachel Casey (00:52:42):
And I'm like, they're like, the line set.
Rachel Casey (00:52:44):
And I'm like, who's who?
Rachel Casey (00:52:46):
Who's that fucking line?
Rachel Casey (00:52:47):
Like, I don't know what lines you're talking about.
Rachel Casey (00:52:50):
And like, what's an under three?
Rachel Casey (00:52:51):
What's me?
Adam Lyons (00:52:53):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:52:54):
I hated it.
Rachel Casey (00:52:55):
I don't know.
Rachel Casey (00:52:55):
The only bets I've made are straight.
Rachel Casey (00:52:57):
I don't care about lies.
Adam Lyons (00:52:58):
You know what bet I made for like 12 straight years that you would get?
Adam Lyons (00:53:01):
I would bet an obscene amount of money on the coin toss of the Super Bowl.
Adam Lyons (00:53:05):
I did it for 12 straight years.
Adam Lyons (00:53:06):
You were that guy too.
Adam Lyons (00:53:07):
Always heads.
Rachel Casey (00:53:08):
We do like the prop bets, though, but then I did one wrong once.
Rachel Casey (00:53:11):
I didn't even know what I bet, but I was like, here's a dollar that he's going to miss it.
Rachel Casey (00:53:15):
I do know that it is a serious addiction,
Rachel Casey (00:53:17):
just in the same,
Rachel Casey (00:53:18):
that doesn't necessarily develop overnight,
Rachel Casey (00:53:20):
just like alcoholism doesn't.
Rachel Casey (00:53:21):
And probably more people have a problem with it than they realize because it's not
Rachel Casey (00:53:26):
as talked about.
Rachel Casey (00:53:27):
So I'm glad that we're bringing light to the same as alcoholism.
Rachel Casey (00:53:32):
There are a lot of other addictions out there.
Rachel Casey (00:53:35):
And they're the exact same.
Rachel Casey (00:53:36):
You could just intertwine the word and it's the exact same formula of how it takes
Rachel Casey (00:53:41):
over your life.
Rachel Casey (00:53:42):
Thank you again for coming on.
Rachel Casey (00:53:43):
And I hope we'll have a comeback episode where we can circle back and be like,
Rachel Casey (00:53:47):
wow,
Rachel Casey (00:53:48):
were we either way too early or way far off on how it's evolved?
Adam Lyons (00:53:52):
Definitely.
Adam Lyons (00:53:53):
And I would love to have you guys in the modern meeting.
Adam Lyons (00:53:55):
So let me know that or you're awesome.
Rachel Casey (00:53:57):
We are the anomaly of the people that got sober on the same day.
Adam Lyons (00:54:01):
I'm sharing for the pod.
Rachel Casey (00:54:01):
Thank you for listening to sober banter.
Rachel Casey (00:54:03):
And thank you, Adam, for coming on here.
Rachel Casey (00:54:05):
If someone is having a gambling issue, what's the best way to get in contact with you?
Adam Lyons (00:54:09):
Yeah.
Adam Lyons (00:54:10):
So either on Gmail, it's modernmeetingpod at gmail.com.
Adam Lyons (00:54:13):
DM me at modernmeeting on Instagram.
Adam Lyons (00:54:16):
And yeah, we're on all the streaming platforms.
Adam Lyons (00:54:19):
Honestly, call 1-800-GAMBLER in your area.
Adam Lyons (00:54:23):
I might answer.
Adam Lyons (00:54:23):
You never know, depending on where you are.
Adam Lyons (00:54:26):
Thank you guys so much for having me.
Adam Lyons (00:54:27):
This has been awesome.
Rachel Casey (00:54:28):
Thank you to anyone listening and reach out to Adam and go check out the Modern
Rachel Casey (00:54:33):
Meeting,
Rachel Casey (00:54:33):
whether it's gambling or alcohol or you're just curious,
Rachel Casey (00:54:36):
go listen.