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Each episode of GAIN Momentum focuses on timeless lessons to help grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, and technology. Whether you’re a veteran industry leader looking for some inspiration to guide the next phase of growth or an aspiring executive looking to fast-track the learning process, this podcast is here with key lessons centered around four questions we ask each guest.
GAIN Momentum episode #82: Keys to the Australian Hospitality Kingdom | with Brendon Granger
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Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the GAIN Momentum Podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. We have a special episode today. I'm joined by my fellow GAIN advisor, Brendon Granger from Australia. How are you, Brendon?
Brendon Granger: I'm really good, Adam. Really good. Glad to be on the GAIN podcast with you.
Adam Mogelonsky: So fellow gain advisor, focusing on technology, and you have a, you're the, also the founder of technology for hotels. So tell us, what does the day in the life day in the life of Brendon look like?
Brendon Granger: As for technology for hotels was founded basically to help hotels improve guest experience and their operation through the use of technology. Uh, sounds like a bit of a mouthful, but you know, we, um, we do a couple of things. We are a distributor for some products in a Australian market. We act as an advisor. And, uh, both to hotels and to vendors, um, in the market as well. So I have the, um, I think it's a pretty cool title, the title of Ambassador for a number of, uh, overseas companies, sort of helping them in the Australian market. And we do a lot around education as well, you know, educating hoteliers as to why mobile check-in is a good thing.
And, you know, we, we can talk about that later, but it probably took us a couple of years to get Hotelier to sort of switch mindset from, you know, traditional check-in is the holy grail and the first point of contact to guests really want streamlined experience. So therefore, mobile check-in is something that guests want.
Adam Mogelonsky: The title of this episode is The Keys to the Australian Kingdom. So as an ambassador to your home country, you have to understand. How technology works, what boots on the ground looks like from the Hotelier side, as well as what's happening in local trends, local development, local municipal laws, everything.
So where, where I wanna start is, let's assume that most of our listeners are not in Australia or New Zealand or even apac. What is the Australian hotel market like?
Brendon Granger: It's a good point. I mean, Australia as a whole, you know, we've got this, um, eastern seaboard, you know, Melbourne, Sydney, sort of Brisbane. This is where the concentration of the population exists. Um, it's the same for hotels. Um. People probably don't realize the capital of Australia is Canberra. Um, it's sort of a small little town.
Um, you know, over here, uh, most people would probably fly into Sydney and are familiar with, you know, the landmarks being the Harbor Bridge and the Opera House. and that's where the concentration of hotels, uh, you know, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, um, and then we've got some luxury, you know, as you go up the coast.
Um, surfers Paradise. Um, the Gold Coast, as people call it, up to the wit Sundays and places like CAIRs where we've got the, you know, the Great Barrier Reef. like everything, um, you know, we've seen the growth of the international change in the Australian market, particularly over probably the last 10 to 15 years.
You know, the number of, of, uh, Marriotts that have opened has been quite substantial. Um. And a lot more, well, like most markets I suppose we've got luxury and we've got lifestyle. Uh, probably those, those two key areas. Um, and in the middle, yeah, prop proper properties like Holiday Inn Express as well.
So the market's fairly well covered. There are some local groups that are that are, that are unique to Australia. Um, event hospitality is one of them. it's a company that, owns, theaters and they own a number of brands, um, including qt, which to me, yeah, it's, it's, it's an irreverent sort of virgin style, um, property.
Uh, each one is unique. Um, the one in Sydney that I know is, is one of your favorites. It was a department store. Um, you walk into the lobby and there's a whole wall full of suitcases in 1960s. Tech that's built in, um, they've changed a little bit now, but the, the girls on the street, the concierge team that would welcome you, were very sexually dressed.
Um, and they would really stand out though. All the girls would wear red wigs, um, you know, stockings. Um, they probably toned that down a little, but, uh, you know, each property is, is just, um, unique in its own way.
Yeah. And, and, and on the point of qt, which is a brand that everyone should look at. An Australian born brand that now has expanded into Singapore and the one in Singapore just won, uh, it was on the Times 2025, top 100 hotels in the world. So that was, you know, for the Australian brand that that could, and it really is a brand that.
Really quintessentially fits that lifestyle, luxury experience that you, that you want. It's, it's unique, it's sense of place. The services is, um, is whimsical, yet still perfect and flawless. And the design is inspirational, aspirational. It's just a fantastic product that not a lot of people know outside of Australia, New Zealand.
And, and now s uh, Singapore.
That is a good point. Yeah. That, that, when you consider the Singapore property from memory open in about September, so to have achieved that award in such a short period of time
is, is testament to, to what they've created.
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Uh, but it does speak to the level of ingenuity that flies under the radar because Australia is. At its core, geographically removed from a lot of other major centers, and that plays into its perception as an innovator. So I'm wondering, um, could you speak a little bit more about any other innovative trends you see in Australia, whether on the development side, unique properties or the tech.
Brendon Granger: Um, yeah, definitely, uh, unique properties. Um, know, within the QT brand, uh, event, also have. It's probably not unique, but a, a brand called, uh, a Torah. Um, it was designed to be that, um, traveler brand, um, sort of a, a low level qt, uh, a little bit of reverend as well. Um, and then we've got brands probably in the Australian market such as TFE.
So that's Toga Far East. So Toga was a construction company in Australia and then, uh, far East Corporation out of Singapore. Uh, bought, uh, in 50% quite a number of years ago. They have, um, an apartment style property and what they created in Sydney a couple of years ago, with the A by Edina. Um, what they've created is, is the best of a hotel.
The best of a service department brand. So you've got, um, the size of a service department. You've got, you know, all those, uh, kitchenette facilities and everything, but then you've got the luxury services of a hotel as well. So that's quite an up and coming chain. Um, you'll see them in Australia and they've also got, um, substantial footprint in Germany.
But apart from that, you know, they're actually. I think they've got about 69 70 properties in the Australia market. So it makes them actually quite a substantial player, TFE in this market.
Adam Mogelonsky: And. How does tech fit into their situation for TFE, insofar as facilitating that service luxury elevated experience?
Brendon Granger: Yeah, that's a really good point actually. They are, um, on a journey at the moment, um, of creating their own guest app. Um. As everyone is, um, not so much creating, but, but all of the chains that I talk to are pushing further about delivering more to the guest across their app, you know, in-room dining, um, pre-arrival, check-in, um, obviously loyalty points, booking room selection, um, everything like that.
So, TFE being, you know, still a smaller group saw a need to create. Um. Their, their own app, um, with plugins from other vendors to deliver that experience to their guests. Um, and to, they're in a difficult situation because are they big enough to have their own loyalty program? Um, and I think they're getting to the point where, where they wanna establish their own loyalty program now as well.
Adam Mogelonsky: Right. Well, the future favors these boutique scalable brands that can leverage scalable technology to drive their own loyalty program or perks, uh, program that the big boys would only be able to do in past eras. So I'm wondering what other technology are you seeing that Australian companies or otherwise are deploying that is really helping to lay the groundwork for.
Future, future brands or doing great things with hospitality at scale or at efficiency using technology.
Brendon Granger: Yes, great point. Um, I, I think to your point about those, those smaller chains being more nimble, um, they are able to adopt technology and be flexible. Um, you know, we are talking to a group at the moment that have a couple of small properties. Um, that really only have a dozen check-ins a day. They're looking to introduce mobile check-in or pre-arrival check-in, whatever you choose to call it.
and then therefore eliminate pretty much the front desk. What they plan to do is then actually greet guests, take the guest up to the room. Sit them down with a glass of champagne and literally explain the room. Uh, with all the paperwork having been done, pre-arrival, then they're looking to change that experience.
There's another group here, and I, I won't mention their name 'cause I don't think they're, they've actually, um, deployed it yet, but it's a luxury brand. And talking to the managing director, he said, you know, they, they thought long and hard about this. Do we offer in room dining via. QR code-based ordering.
You know, that's not traditionally what we would do, but when they thought about it, they said, you know, at the moment we've got a team that take room service orders. There's a peak period. During that peak period, they can be stretched. So a customer may not get direct through directly to the team. If we're using a QR code-based ordering, then there's no limit to the number of orders we can receive simultaneously. What we will do is we'll use the team to enhance that in-room dining experience. So what they're going to do is go back to trolleys, cloth, you know, candles, flour, colory, and just elevate that in-room dining experience. So it's a classic case where they're gonna use technology to do what it does well, and then use the team. To enhance the guest experience, which I think is actually a smart way to look at it.
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Yeah. It, it
is. Um, you know, just to, 'cause you mentioned two examples there. Let's go back to the first one and the whole idea of the in-room check-in completion to really have that, that host experience. Can you describe the daisy chain of technology that's involved in stringing together all that pre-arrival stuff that needs to happen in order to have that seamless host experience at check-in?
Brendon Granger: Y. Ahead. Um, effectively it's a, um, a solution that will offer that pre-arrival experience to the guest, which is linked to your property management system, um, via a, a, a solid two-way interface. And of course, your payment gateway. So with a system like that, a mobile, um, mobile check-in is what you traditionally call in the us I call it sort of pre-arrival check-in. You know, the system gets data out of the property management system sends a message to the guest, normally 48 hours before they're due to arrive, welcoming them to check in, just like we've been doing with airlines for
years. Um, that can be an email, it can be a WhatsApp, it can be an SMS. Often it might be all three.
Whichever way the guest chooses to communicate back is then set as the default method for that guest. The guest simply goes through the process. Normally, it involves, um, you know, providing some sort of ID credit card and signing a registration card during that process as well. Um, traditionally you offer the guest, um, an upsell.
It could be, um, to a higher room category. It could be a spa, it could be anything. Uh, what we tend to find is at that point, you know, 48 hours out, um, guests are in that buying mindset, um, and about 25% of guests actually take the upsell offer. Interestingly enough, those upsells will actually offset the cost to the solution.
So the solution actually becomes a profit center for most hotels. And we've had examples here where the return on the investment for a large 400 room hotel was 30 days. so once the guest has completed that process, takes them about a minute. Um, when they arrive at the property, the property knows that.
Already Id credit card and, um, registration card are being signed. They've got the photo of the guest. The guest has probably indicated roughly what time they're looking to arrive. Um, and they can be ready, they can be armed with all that information. You know, uh, Mr. Mul coming in at two o'clock, you know, it's 1 55.
They're waiting there for you. They can truly greet you and, and you know. Take you up to your room and, and, and just make you feel at home
Adam Mogelonsky: And you say that this whole idea of arrival time is. It's so critical, right? Every, every Hotelier wants to know exactly when you're coming, so that way they can schedule everything. Have you ever looked at a project that would involve the integration of flight arrival data?
Brendon Granger: personally? No. That, that would be, no, that, that would be ideal. I know a lot of the higher car services, um, that I've used, you know, in Thailand for et cetera, will monitor your flight and, um, you know, adjust accordingly. Because with you and I both know with international travel, you know, an hour here, an hour there can make a big difference.
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And um, I guess the other thing there with pre-arrival is you can also have. Geos sinking where, or geofencing where you know that somebody's within a certain amount of the hotel, if they've, if they've signed up and then when they've, uh, when they were, you can get a ping with it when they're within 10 kilometers, uh, or so you can set that up.
Have you ever done anything like that as part of the pre-arrival experience to.
Brendon Granger: Yeah, that's a great point. Not at this point. I mean, I think we are at the point I, I think I mentioned from an education point of view, probably two years ago as we came out of the pandemic, it was truly an education around, you know. Mobile checking is actually something that guests want. And as Hotelier, we need to listen to that.
Um, and statistically we've seen, you know, the take up rates in corporate hotels in their first month, you know, 50 to 60 in resort properties. Um, we've got 75% of guests actually checking in before they arrive. So we're at that early stage. I think that, as you said, that the geolocation and also monitoring airline fight details is probably that phase two of a project where we're just taking it the next step.
But they're great, great ideas. Yep.
Adam Mogelonsky: But as you said, guests, this is what guests want. So let's tie this back. He's the Kingdom of Australia. What do Australian guests want?
Brendon Granger: I don't think they, they're, you know, unique. I mean, it's everybody, you know, um, wants a streamlined experience generally, you know, nobody wants to wait in a queue. Um, you've experienced it. Um, you know, on one of my last trips, the. Time that it took to check into the hotel exceeded the time that it took me to enter the country.
you know, through border control with, with facial recognition and passport scanning these days,
Adam Mogelonsky: Was that Singapore for reference?
Brendon Granger: it was actually, that was Thailand.
Adam Mogelonsky: Oh, that was Thailand. So you're, you're entering in, um, in through Bangkok.
Brendon Granger: yes. Um. And then you get to the hotel and it's like, can we have your passport, your driver's license, your credit card? Can you sign here?
It's a much more complex process than actually entering the country. Um, and so I think guests want recognition of the fact that, you know, they're booked, they've stayed with you before. You've got all the details. Let's just make life simple. Get me to the room. Um, and then from. You know, once they're in the room, just the convenience of choice.
If they want to use their mobile to make a request for coffee pods or towels, then they should be able to do that. Um, if they want to use for interim dining, fantastic. You should be able to use your device both before you arrive during the state, on and off property. So there's no reason if, you know, if I'm in Singapore and I left the hotel early and forgot to let them know that, um, well in Bangkok there was no body wash.
Um, you know, they forgot to refill that, that that bottle. So, um, you know, if I'm out and about, I could message the hotel and say, Hey, can you just please make sure that the body wash is refilled?
Adam Mogelonsky: let's workshop this a little bit because the whole thing with the, the facial scan and the biometric scans at the airport we're dealing with. A scalable enterprise that has a, a lot of throughput, a lot of volume to offset the technology cost, that investment getting down to the boutique hotel level, that's significantly harder.
But what you said is that this pre-arrival, upselling when done right, becomes a cash center unto itself. So. How, or what would you say to boutique co hoteliers, independent, or even as part of a minor chain, to convince them that this whole idea of offering flexibility to through technology can have a strong ROI in the near term?
How would you phrase that? How would you, how would you plan that out as a, uh, technologist?
Brendon Granger: literally hotely is, um, you know, social proof is a big thing, so. Using, using examples of similar properties we find works particularly well to that point, until we actually had, uh, a very good reference site here in the, in the Sydney markup, for example, you know, had a number of hoteliers like, well, it sounds really good, but who in the Australian market that is five star and has 400 rooms is using it and it's like. No one we can point to overseas clients who've shown great success. and then once we got someone who was willing to sort of take that leap of faith, um, it was interesting because that's the property that, that had the return on investment in, in just under a month. You know, the general managers like, oh my gosh, like, why didn't we do this sooner?
It's like, well, um, so I think we have to show them the return on investment. Um.
Adam Mogelonsky: just to color that a little bit more, when you say. You're looking for comps overseas, which, where, where are you? Where are you talking about?
Brendon Granger: look at in, it could be the US market, it could be the APAC market, you know, the,
the,
the,
Adam Mogelonsky: pull from everywhere.
Brendon Granger: yeah, exactly. you'll always have a Hotelier sort of say, well, you know, the American market is very different
to the Australia market and therefore it may not work here. and, and it's similar,
Adam Mogelonsky: Do you think that's just an excuse not to,
not to innovate?
Brendon Granger: I think it, look, I think it's, you know, everybody knows as an industry, we've, we're, we're cautious when it comes to the adoption of technology, sometimes overly cautious. And, you know, we've gotta look, I know we sh we shouldn't, but the airline industry is often shown us the way.
They introduced kiosks years and years ago.
Um, to the point where many airlines now are saying, to be honest, we probably don't need to, to put in kiosks. We're actually reducing them because the guests can do everything that a kiosk can do on their mobile. And yet we've got hotel areas that are now just starting to say, oh, I think the idea of kiosks is a good one.
Well, we could potentially, you know, leapfrog that technology and go from. Mobile check in directly to mobile key and avoid that kiosk phase.
Adam Mogelonsky: But I think the bottom line here is that you have to innovate, but there you have examples of. A very, very quick turnaround on ROI from investing in technology. It's simply a matter of deploying fast and, and getting it out there. you know, that, that oftentimes is, is where it gets bogged down and in a lot of the, the decision by committee that needs to happen.
Brendon Granger: Yeah, exactly right. Uh, and this, we're talking, this is a SaaS based solution. Um, you know, with the Sydney property, it worked in our favor in the end, but we, we had to go to the Hong Kong, uh, based parent and have a chat to them. We ended up actually signing the three properties in Hong Kong as well.
Um, and they were deployed before the Sydney property.
Adam Mogelonsky: Wow.
Brendon Granger: Yeah.
Adam Mogelonsky: So, okay. This is a great check-in to. Learn about some of, some of the things on the ground with Australia. For those that are looking in, uh, they wanna move in on the brand side, on the tech side. I have one final question for you. Can you explain to everyone who is not an Australian, what a cashed up bogan is?
Brendon Granger: Oh gosh. how would you describe a cashed up vogan? Um, like a bogan is a, I don't know if the American term is a hick, um, you know, a hillbilly sort of type person. Um, you know, here we say they're, they're probably from, from the western suburbs, you know, slightly,
Adam Mogelonsky: Like parata, that it, that sort of part.
Brendon Granger: Probably further out
now, uh, that's becoming a little bit more gentrified.
Um, you know, there are parts of Sydney and Melbourne where, know, it's a lower demographic. They're a, they're a worker, um, but they've got money. And to be honest, a lot of people, um, in trades, you know, if you are an electrician or a plumber, um.
Adam Mogelonsky: A minor, you
Brendon Granger: Um, if, if you are a miner that that does, um, fly in, fly out
work, um, yeah, a little bit more stressful, um, you know, that, that sort of fly in, fly out stuff,
Adam Mogelonsky: If you're going off to the Northern Territories and back and stuff like that.
Brendon Granger: yeah.
And you're away from your family a lot, so you know that that is, that's a short term gig I suppose, that a lot of people do to sort of put some money in the pocket and, um, potentially save for a mortgage or whatever. But if you're a, you know, you might be a, uh, a tradie and you've got, you know, the ute and the jet ski and all that sort of stuff.
Um, so you are cashed up, but your social skills are probably a little bit below path.
Um, and you've got a rough.
Adam Mogelonsky: to finish off. I was gonna end on cashed up bogan, but, uh, describe what a ute is as well.
Brendon Granger: Oh, sorry. It's a Pickup.
effectively,
um,
Adam Mogelonsky: SUV sort of thing.
Brendon Granger: in the
Australian
market years and years ago. It was a, it was a smaller version. Um, now we're starting to see, you know, if people want to wanna Ute they've probably got a, um, a RAM or a, you know, a Ford F-150 type. You know, we've, we've seen those big, big American vehicles become more popular
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah.
Brendon Granger: market.
Adam Mogelonsky: Or the, the, the Commodore equivalent, I guess, as a,
Brendon Granger: Uh, yeah, the Commodore doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately. We, we stopped producing it. Um, but there was, you're right, Ford and, and Holden, uh, who produced Commodore had a, uh, a utility, I suppose was, is probably the other, other word for you. And, and we just have a, a tendency to abbreviate things. Right? So, Ute stands for utility.
That's just a big word for Australians.
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's ending on the point of lingo is you, you, if you want to be on the ground, you have to understand the dialect and you have to be a local because hospitality is a local industry, even though it's global.
Brendon Granger: Yeah, that's quite right. Yeah,
Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Brendon, thanks for, uh, this power half hour of just discussing what Australia's all about.
Thank you.
Brendon Granger: it's a pleasure, Adam. Thank you.