AUDIO - Daren Roast V1
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[00:00:00] Chenell Basilio: Hello, welcome back to the growth in reverse podcast. I'm Chanel
[00:00:03] Dylan Redekop: and I'm Dylan.
[00:00:04] Chenell Basilio: And recently we asked for some submissions to have your newsletter roasted live on air. And so today I want to share our first one of those with you. Uh, we're going to be walking through. Darren Smith, who has submitted his Craftsman Films newsletter to be roasted by me and Dylan and we haven't done this before, so I'm excited to kind of just ramble on about what we think he can improve and how he can better grow and optimize his newsletter.
So, uh, yeah. I think we're just going to jump right into it.
[00:00:33] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, let's do it. Thanks Darren for submitting this and being kind of a guinea pig to our first ever newsletter roast too. That's um, it's pretty, it's pretty fun, exciting. And I think we mentioned in the, in one of our last episodes that we're not going to be, I think too harsh, but at the same time we want to be constructive and help you out.
So yeah, I'm excited to get into this. And I think if you do want your newsletter roasted, email us, uh, or email Chanel, chanellacrowthunderverse. com. Um, or you can, uh, go to, I think. [00:01:00] Growthuniverse. com slash roast, I believe is the, the form and fill it out and get a chance to have your newsletter roasted as well.
[00:01:11] Chenell Basilio: So, all right. So Darren's newsletter is, and actually, if you're listening to this, I'm not sure it's going to be a great experience. We're going to try and make it a really good audio only experience and talk through everything. Extra if you're not looking, but you can go to craftsmanfilms. co, which is where his newsletter and website lives.
Uh, but this is also going to be on YouTube. So if you're not over on YouTube yet, uh, we just cracked a thousand subscribers there, which is so exciting. Uh, so come join us there if you'd like to see the full roast. Okay. So let's get into it. So Darren submitted craftsmanfilms. co slash join as his newsletter landing page.
Um, and yeah, I mean, if you're looking at this, the first thing we see is join craftsman films is the headline. And then there's a giant image of an arrow pointing down and it takes up the whole screen, [00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Dylan Redekop: the whole screen. You know what? Like if you're, if you're zoomed in like at a hundred percent browser, like you got to scroll down to see the whole image.
So it is big.
[00:02:08] Chenell Basilio: Really big and then there's a caption with an unsplash tag. So right away, giving links out to another website right on the page, uh, which isn't necessarily ideal, but I'm glad you're giving some props to the person who created the image.
[00:02:22] Dylan Redekop: Yes. Giving the credits. That's nice.
[00:02:23] Chenell Basilio: Yes, exactly. Um, yeah, so I don't know.
I mean, from my perspective that there's a lot that can be done here. Um. My mind's actually going a hundred miles a minute because there's like, so it's the join craftsman films is the headline. Then there's this massive image. And then, um, the tagline reads whether you're an investor interested, interested in learning how to profitably invest in independent film or a filmmaker looking to get to the next level in your career.
That's what we help with. And then it says investors, if you're an investor and would like to learn about indie film, join here to get weekly emails about the process. Then he has a kit form embedded below [00:03:00] that with another image.
[00:03:01] Dylan Redekop: We should also call out that there's like a little button that's, um, a sticky button.
It says, join craftsman films on the bottom, right? And there's also at the very top of the landing page, a subscribe button in the nav menu,
[00:03:12] Chenell Basilio: which
[00:03:12] Dylan Redekop: is fine. Um, if you want to click one of those, see what happens, maybe. Okay. So he's got some,
[00:03:18] Chenell Basilio: yep. Using
[00:03:19] Dylan Redekop: ghost. And then also you've got. Uh, three kind of subscription options with your name, email, and then there's like, uh, you got to duck down to see past my camera.
It's like a 0 option, a 1. 99 per year option and a 4. 95 per year option. Right. So, um, I guess, yeah, we can close that up, but my, I don't know about you, Chanel, my first thought is just get rid of that image entirely. Like 100%. Let's get rid of that. Um, I would build this more like a traditional landing page where above the fold, you see the head, the, maybe the name of the newsletter, or at least an enticing headline to why you'd want to join the newsletter and then a enter your email address field and a submit.
Of course, you'd want some social proof if you have some and, um, another, like. [00:04:00] Uh, you know, get smarter about creating profitable indie films, kind of like, you know, that's, uh, off the cuff sort of a sub headline, but you'd want something there to really kind of just entice people to join.
[00:04:10] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, agreed. Um, so I took the liberty of just editing this real quick.
So if we remove the, if we remove the giant image, this already looks so much better. Um, yeah, I would honestly. perspective, you have way too much going on here for this landing page. Um, we probably just want to get rid of this whole header bar at the top and just have join. Well, this should be changed too, but we can get that.
So have the headline standalone at the top, get rid of the book, call out at the top. I know that's exciting. Congrats on launching a book, but on this newsletter join forum, we really just want them to join the newsletter. So I would probably just scroll down here and have it start somewhere about. I was just
[00:04:50] Dylan Redekop: going to say, if you scroll down, get rid of that nav menu, it looks, that looks even already a lot better.
And some hierarchy would be good here too.
[00:04:56] Chenell Basilio: Um, and then you can even embed the form. Well, [00:05:00] first he's asking for a first name and email address, which is fine. Um, it's definitely going to like lower conversions, which isn't always a bad thing. Like sometimes you want more people or less people to join, but have them.
Be more interested and like, I dunno, you know, like they actually want to take that time to fill out both fields. Um, I'm a big fan of just doing email address, but you do lose that personalization on the backend. So there's that, um,
[00:05:28] Dylan Redekop: I wonder Chanel, what you would think if he just removed everything above that kind of built in form or you could, you could have just in beside that image of the cinema, the headline could be joint craftsman films.
And then the learn how to profitably invest in indie films could be the subheading, and then that's your.
[00:05:45] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I'm always a big fan of just getting rid of images that don't serve the purpose and I don't know that the cinema one does either. Um, if it was a picture of, you know, maybe a lead magnet that you're giving away or something relevant that they're going [00:06:00] to see in the future, or like on the next page, I think that's a good way to use an image, but just having one there because there was an image field maybe is, I Kind of forcing it.
But then also, actually, if we keep scrolling down, there's like, he's calling out other potential, um, people who want to sign up. So there's a heading that says investors, and it's just like, if you're an investor, then filmmakers, if you're a producer or filmmaker, we have resources. I feel like this is too much for a landing page for an opt in.
[00:06:29] Dylan Redekop: I think you get people in, um, kind of a wider funnel and then segment them once they're in. And I believe Darren does do a bit of segmentation. Once you're in, I wonder if that's a, maybe a better approach, or maybe you just need to focus one of these two audiences.
[00:06:43] Chenell Basilio: Or just call them out in a, if you're an investor or filmmaker, we share weekly emails.
So I'm always a fan of having like one call out, like a headline of what people are going to get, not join craftsman films. Maybe it's. Uh, weekly indie film [00:07:00] content. I mean, something that tells them what they're going to get. And then in the smaller, uh, text below that you can kind of call out who it's for.
And like maybe a little bit more about what they're getting, but one to two sentences max, I'd probably lean in. with one if you could. Um, yeah, this feels like a lot.
[00:07:17] Dylan Redekop: I think I just ate a fungus net, just flew into my mouth. Um, so it happens when you have too many plants, but what I was going to say, um, was, uh, two things.
One, you mentioned the image and something that's more relevant. Just going back to that really quickly is, um, Darren's face maybe might be relevant if people if he's somewhat well known in the space Maybe his face or an image of him producing movies because he's produced quite a few medium budget indie movies, so That's one thing.
The other thing is, you know, the elephant in the room is like Darren you've produced medium sized indie Films, why are you not saying that here? Why are you not using that [00:08:00] as like a reason for people to subscribe to this? Like, you've been in the trenches, you've done this, you know what, um, what it takes and what goes on and how to do this.
So I think a little bit of credibility or authority. Um, a line about that would be very, very much helpful to get people to buy in right on this landing page.
[00:08:17] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, definitely. You're 100 percent right on calling that out. Um, it should just be a picture of Darren, like behind the scenes, Darren, like filming or doing something.
[00:08:27] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Chenell Basilio: I think that would be amazing because this, this whole page leaves out his experience and why people should listen to him. Exactly what you just said. I love that. Yeah. It should just be a picture of Darren and say like, I've produced X number of films, blank dollar million budgets. And every week I share tips and behind the scenes stories and ways that you can be a better investor and filmmaker.
Yeah. In the indie space or something. Um, get rid of, that's
[00:08:53] Dylan Redekop: like, I'm like, I'm in, I'm, I'm actually just kind of curious what that life's like without being interested in this industry at all. Like that, that's got [00:09:00] me, that's got me hooked
[00:09:00] Chenell Basilio: a hundred percent. So I think if we can just clean this up a lot.
Yeah. I, I kind of wonder if he's double using this page as a newsletter, opt-in form and, uh, join my $495, uh, year founding membership. Mm-hmm . So I think we need to separate those and just focus on the one goal, which is getting people on the newsletter. You can create another page that is focused around getting them to upgrade later on.
Uh, but I think getting them to your free content first is a great way to go. What do you think about that?
[00:09:28] Dylan Redekop: I totally agree. I don't want, I think you're trying to do chasing too many rabbits here and people are just gonna not catch any of them. So, um, I think what you could do is just focus and then drive people down a funnel, uh, later.
Now I think you should subscribe and see what that experience is like on the front end live. Here, Chanel, at least for, um, the point where what happened. Oh, and we're pulling it. Yeah. Let's go mobile here. Why not? Let's do it.
[00:09:53] Chenell Basilio: Okay. Why don't we do it on the
[00:09:54] Dylan Redekop: mobile version?
[00:09:55] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I just want to walk through this and just to like hammer this home.
So the, the giant [00:10:00] picture that I deleted from this page, um, it actually does look better on mobile. It's much smaller. Still think you could get rid of it. Uh, still continuing to get rid of the cinema one. And honestly, I feel like, like, this is me being picky, but the font colors and the fonts are just not the same.
And so I'm a big fan of having everything be the same font, same colors, all that, uh, just keep people from getting whiplash. But if you look at the, the text on the homepage, it's like really long on mobile. And then once you get to the bottom, there's no signup. So if he were to continue to keep this page as is and said, you guys are completely wrong.
I'm just going to leave it. I would at least put a button at the bottom to like sign up for email. So that's one thing I did want to call out. So. We can, uh, go through the actual process if you want to. So since we've now talked about my email address a number of times on this, I'm okay with sharing it here.
I'm going to go ahead and subscribe to his newsletter and we get to another giant image.
[00:10:59] Dylan Redekop: [00:11:00] Uh, the often overlooked thank you page.
[00:11:03] Chenell Basilio: So for those listening, it has a headline that says thank you. And then there's a giant image that takes up the whole screen. With like a neon sign on a wall that says, thank you.
Um,
[00:11:14] Dylan Redekop: two thank yous,
[00:11:15] Chenell Basilio: two thank yous. You're welcome, Darren. And, uh, okay. So he does do some good things here. He has welcome to craftsman film. So glad to have you join us. Make sure to check your inbox. Oh, be sure to check your inbox to make sure the email we sent ended up where you hoped it would. And then he has some links to other recent posts, I imagine
[00:11:34] Dylan Redekop: for these.
And then bottom right corner there as well. That little toaster pop up
[00:11:39] Chenell Basilio: and then he has the right message, uh, customization form. So if you're not familiar, right message is a tool you can use to kind of get more data and personalized information from people who sign up for your emails. So I use this as well.
It's a great way to like, now he knows there's some cookie on the back end that knows that was my email [00:12:00] address. If I click on one of these. And the three options are, I want to make profitable films, I'm interested in investing in films, or just exploring the film industry, so I'll click on that one.
[00:12:10] Dylan Redekop: That's the one I clicked on too.
[00:12:11] Chenell Basilio: And then it actually asked me to subscribe again.
[00:12:14] Dylan Redekop: Yes. So, that's confusing and I wanted to call this out as well, because he needs to update his right message here, because It says join craftsman films, but the smaller text says get help along your filmmaking journey with a complimentary copy of the book blockbuster, how independent creators can build massively profitable businesses.
So that sounds cool. Like if you're in this industry and you want that, but it's also misleading because it says join craftsman films, you enter your name and your email address and the call to action button to submit it says join craftsman films again. So it's like, well, am I. Joining the newsletter or am I getting the blockbuster book?
So that needs to be tweaked so that it's very clear on what you're getting and not joining the newsletter twice.
[00:12:53] Chenell Basilio: Well, and also right message. You can set it up. So it only, there are different flows. So if like I just subscribed, so I am now. [00:13:00] A subscriber and so I should not be seeing this, this should not, this should be hidden from me completely.
So that's actually interesting that it kind of showed there. So I wonder if that button that I just clicked is going to be tagged to my current subscriber record or not. So I'm not sure. Sorry, what
[00:13:17] Dylan Redekop: do you mean by that? This shouldn't be visible if you're now a subscriber, which part of this shouldn't be visible to you.
[00:13:23] Chenell Basilio: So I'm on the thank you page. Like I literally just subscribed to the email address or the email newsletter. So I shouldn't be getting another form to join.
[00:13:29] Dylan Redekop: Right. And so my thought is, um, one of those three options that were in the right message pop up, the one you picked, uh, the other two might go somewhere different.
But the one you picked goes to some, you like, he wanted to send you somewhere. And so the call to action for that option is to get that blockbuster book, a free copy of that book. But my thought is like, it's very confusing when it looks like you have to. Oh, geez.
[00:13:52] Chenell Basilio: Oh boy. Okay. We have a little issue here.
So for those not watching, I. Re entered my information just because I [00:14:00] wanted to like see if it would send me something different and we got a He I guess the url is broken because they're supposed to be hgtps colon and it's missing the colon Um, and actually it's
[00:14:10] Dylan Redekop: is it doubled up?
[00:14:11] Chenell Basilio: Yeah So it should go here.
[00:14:14] Dylan Redekop: We're saving you some money here. We'll send you an invoice in the mail
[00:14:17] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Um, okay. So this does go somewhere else, but I guess what my point is like on a thank you page, you shouldn't be asking someone to subscribe again. It should just be focused on getting them to the email to actually confirm or do whatever they're going to do.
And Dylan, you had said, Oh wait. Okay. So now I got the double opt in. Interesting. Okay.
[00:14:37] Dylan Redekop: Let me
[00:14:37] Chenell Basilio: pull this up here.
[00:14:39] Dylan Redekop: So I like his double opt in subject line,
[00:14:41] Chenell Basilio: complete your sign up to. Craftsman films with an exclamation point.
[00:14:45] Dylan Redekop: I like it in that. It's not please confirm your subscription Like it's at least a little bit something that stands out in your inbox
[00:14:50] Chenell Basilio: to uh, drive this point home So this was the second email I signed up with in that second box So I don't believe that I got a double opt in for the other [00:15:00] one, which is kind of interesting No, I did not so i'm wondering if it's something's up on my end or maybe I have previously subscribed and moved it to my Newsletter inbox.
I'm not sure.
[00:15:11] Dylan Redekop: Oh, yeah, I might have a filter on.
[00:15:12] Chenell Basilio: Okay, so I'm clicking the confirm subscribe Confirm sign up button to say like yes I want to be added and then I go to the same Thank You page again with the same box popping up in the corner Probably want to mess with this flow just a little bit to make sure we're keeping people I don't know engaged and not confused Yeah.
[00:15:32] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. This could be optimized a little bit.
[00:15:34] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I think so. But the fact that he has some of this setup is good. So I think there's like just room to go up. Yeah.
[00:15:42] Dylan Redekop: Would we recommend again getting rid of that big thank you image? Oh, for sure. Or, or at least making it very, very much smaller.
[00:15:47] Chenell Basilio: I'm going to pull, this is not the best one.
I need to update this before I use this as an example again, but, um, cause I think I do this all the time. I'm like, Oh, this is what mine looks like. Okay. So mine is this page. Where I just say [00:16:00] like, Hey, it's me. And I'm waving. There's a picture of me. It says, Hey, you made it happier here. And then I like reiterate what you're getting in case you forgot.
Um, by the time you clicked through on that link. And then I have some latest issues and this font is huge. I need to fix this. The point is I'm like helping people continue to go down a rabbit hole, which he did. He did do this. Although I think there is room to have another behind the scenes image of Darren and say like, Hey, Just a reminder, like I'm super excited to share my experience with you and then send them the blockbuster book.
If it's, I don't know. Is it free? I guess I kind of thought the PDF
[00:16:33] Dylan Redekop: version appears to be free. Yep.
[00:16:34] Chenell Basilio: Okay. So maybe he can just send that as like a surprise and delight email.
[00:16:38] Dylan Redekop: That'd be awesome. And you
[00:16:38] Chenell Basilio: actually got a welcome email, right? Yeah. Oh wait, I just got it. Hold on. There you
[00:16:42] Dylan Redekop: go. Talking
[00:16:43] Chenell Basilio: too fast.
Okay. Here we go. Turn on your images. I don't want to yet. Oh
[00:16:47] Dylan Redekop: wait. Oh, okay. I was going to say, I'm not sure if there's any images in it now that I'm looking.
[00:16:52] Chenell Basilio: Um, okay. So his subject line is good. Welcome to Craftsman Films. It's at least customized, potentially have more enticing [00:17:00] verbiage, but I think it's good.
Um, and then he, he says it's a date, which is kind of interesting and it's in this nice like written font, like typewriter font. Welcome to Weekly Craftsman Films Newsletter. For those who seek. to create profitable indie films and build blockbuster businesses. I guess that's probably a link to the book.
Yeah. Well, let's keep going with this before we go there. You're in, welcome to craft some films, hit reply on this in any future emails. If you have questions, housekeeping items, you know, like, uh, if your provider needs you to screen in email addresses. What does that mean?
[00:17:33] Dylan Redekop: I think, I think Darren's a big user of hey.
com. And I think that might be something to do with like that sort of screen in sort of thing. So if you've got a pretty strict inbox email client that you're working with, then that's probably what he's referencing.
[00:17:45] Chenell Basilio: Got it. Yeah. Okay. Can you take this quick poll? Okay. This is interesting. So he has a poll that says which of the following best describes you.
And there's two options. The first one says I'm a filmmaker. producer, director, writer, actor, et cetera. Or I'm a current or [00:18:00] aspiring film investor or executive producer. If you remember on the right message box, there was a third option that was, I'm just interested in the film business, I think. And that's what I clicked because I'm not either of these things.
So I almost wonder if there's a opportunity to do like other or that third option. I'm just interested in the business because I don't know, you're leaving me out here. I'm not like the super target audience, but, um, if you have it on one box, you might want to have it on this one too. Um, okay. So then it says, actually, I really want to click one of these and see if I get something.
[00:18:34] Dylan Redekop: I'd say click them both. All right. See what happens. See if there's a different experience.
[00:18:38] Chenell Basilio: I don't know if it's going to let me. Okay. So I clicked on, oops, I clicked on, I'm a filmmaker and it took me to their podcast again with the giant image. Um, I don't know if this is a ghost thing and it's like hard to change the size or what.
Okay. And then it's just like podcast page and gives you kind of a walkthrough of how to listen to the podcast. Um, all right. So if I click on I'm an [00:19:00] aspiring film investor or current or executive producer, Oh, there he is. We finally see Darren. Okay. Great. So now on this one, it says, learn how to invest in indie films.
Nice little, little, little, nice big picture of Darren and some coworkers and friends, I guess. He's probably going to laugh because these are probably like famous people that I just am too silly to know who they are. Uh, you're an investor. You love movies. You want to invest in film, but aren't sure how it works.
Welcome. Okay. And then there's like a link to schedule a call or ask a question. Oh wow, this is like a full little course here. Interesting. Below is a table of contents of an ever evolving blog book. As I write, the words below will become links. That's pretty interesting.
[00:19:43] Dylan Redekop: I know Darren's really, he's really big on building in public.
Like he wrote his first book Craftsman Creative. His, and his newsletter was essentially a So I
[00:19:55] Chenell Basilio: think
[00:19:57] Dylan Redekop: he's doing that again. I think he did that with blockbuster. I think he's [00:20:00] doing it again with this one. Yeah. Very cool. It looks like it at least.
[00:20:02] Chenell Basilio: That's super interesting. I actually, this is just a fun, uh, thought process, but I wonder if he could set up all of these as links and see what people click on the most and then write that next and like gauge interest in each one.
Yeah,
[00:20:16] Dylan Redekop: True. But then somebody who clicks on that link would go to kind of a dead page and the experience wouldn't be good. So you'd have to make that clear.
[00:20:22] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. What do you
[00:20:23] Dylan Redekop: want to read next? Choose your own adventure.
[00:20:25] Chenell Basilio: Choose your own adventure.
[00:20:26] Dylan Redekop: No,
[00:20:26] Chenell Basilio: I love this though. I love the idea behind this. It's really cool.
I don't want to get too far in the weeds on this. All right. So back to the welcome email.
[00:20:33] Dylan Redekop: There's a lot of links there. How do you feel about, you know, welcome email? First, you got a poll, you've got an at saying, Hey, reply to this email. You've got all these links. Like if we're just going back to like best practices, first welcome email, what is kind of the bare minimum that you would want to see here?
Or is this too much?
[00:20:49] Chenell Basilio: No, this is a great call out. I think I love the welcome messaging of some version. Um, the housekeeping items are fine. I think that's a good best practice. Like some people are going to do [00:21:00] that, but then I would, I would probably do the reply, especially because he has right message set up.
Like, I think if someone clicks on a link to his website, they should see that right message box pop up if they haven't answered those questions yet. So I would just leave this. Pull probably off and just focus on the getting the reply. Um, I know getting a click is good, but a reply is apparently better for deliverability.
So I would focus there. What project has your attention right now? I think that's a good question. Uh, there's typically only one answer to that. Um, so I guess what I'm hinting at is a lot of people will ask like a very open ended question that is like almost hard to answer. There's so many options. So I like that he's kind of asking you for one thing.
Um, it just feels like it might be a harder answer.
[00:21:46] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. If you have to think, think about an answer to a question for more than like three seconds, you're probably not going to answer it. So, yeah.
[00:21:51] Chenell Basilio: So I'm a big fan of like, I give people the option to either just say, hi Chanel, or say, where did you find me?
Cause that does help me [00:22:00] like get some data of like where people are finding the newsletter. I like that one. It's simple. I, I don't mind this one. I actually think it's pretty good. Cause it's very on brand essentially. Um, and he's probably getting some good replies.
[00:22:12] Dylan Redekop: I think the other thing that's interesting is the text right below the poll says.
You may be wondering where to go from here. Well, this isn't a sales funnel. There isn't a next step that I hope you take. And I thought that was very counterintuitive to what we usually see in, I mean, people aren't calling out that, yes, this is a sales funnel. This is where I want you to go. But, um, I think that I just can't help but wonder if that language might.
Um, there's a different way to phrase that. Or if you do genuinely want people to a next step, because it kind of feels like there's a whole bunch of doors to go through, pick your door that you want to go through. Um, so I don't know, to me, as somebody just subscribing here, I'd be like. My time might be limited.
I might, I might just want you to tell me where to go. Like, I don't, I know this, you don't want me to necessarily buy something right away, but be like, this is where you should go if you want this kind of thing. Or I don't know, [00:23:00] something like that. Cause I see a whole bunch of blue text here and a whole bunch of links and I'm kind of like overwhelmed.
[00:23:03] Chenell Basilio: Agreed. Um, and also you have to kind of remember your audience. And so I feel like if it was me and I put, this isn't a sales funnel, people would get it. But as someone who's a filmmaker, they might be like, what's a sales funnel. You know, like it might, it might confuse them and then. Get them not doing anything else after that.
So I would probably remove that. I think just having the living table of contents as like his way of being different, I think is a good forcing function. I don't think he needs to call out like, Hey, I'm different because this isn't a sales funnel.
[00:23:34] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And it's also one of those things, like if you say that it's not this thing, does that make it feel even more like it is this thing?
[00:23:40] Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
[00:23:41] Dylan Redekop: And I know Darren's a pretty. Genuine guy. So he, I'm sure he legitimately means that it's not a sales funnel, but yeah, I like the living table of contents and that's probably where he's going to get the most direction from, um, his audience as well. If they go there and they start clicking on certain links, um, that might help direct what he should.
Right next if they're clicking a [00:24:00] whole bunch in the development section, for example, then he knows I got to do more development posts or something.
[00:24:03] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I agree. And I, I still feel like there's so much more opportunity for him to lean into his background. Yeah. And maybe that comes in the next email and I just haven't gotten there yet.
But yeah, it could be just signing off as just. Darren Smith with his picture is like, I don't know.
[00:24:19] Dylan Redekop: You're, you're an executive producer of, um, indie movies, Darren. You have a, yeah, a little bit more credibility. It's I know. And I get it. It's probably weird. Um, super weird to kind of, to put those things, uh, as titles or under your name and stuff.
But I think it's going to help. It's going to help build that authority and credibility for why people want to listen to you.
[00:24:37] Chenell Basilio: Um, okay. We did the welcome email. We did the thank you page. Um, Are we missing anything? Should we go to like? Those are the main, those are the main things, I think. Let's go to this one.
So you, I think this is a recent, um.
[00:24:52] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
[00:24:53] Chenell Basilio: Post. And actually now I'm signed in. So maybe I can sign out. Uh oh.
[00:24:58] Dylan Redekop: Or can you?
[00:24:59] Chenell Basilio: I can't. [00:25:00] Uh, how do I get to like? Okay. If I just click on one of these. So I guess if you're in a post, I just want to see the sign up workflow. So it looks like it's just the ghost button, which is kind of getting drowned out by this right push thing too.
[00:25:13] Dylan Redekop: I want to make one of those, um, hide on these pages.
[00:25:16] Chenell Basilio: I think that might be a good idea. I'm just going to see what it looks like on mobile if we need to switch. So I just went to that page on mobile like as if someone had shared it with me and it's just the article which is great, um, and then I guess this is.
Right. Message again.
[00:25:31] Dylan Redekop: Oh, yeah.
[00:25:32] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. On the bottom. So that's kind of an opt in, but not really. So as I'm scrolling down, I don't see anywhere except for at the very bottom to subscribe to the newsletter. Right. So I wonder if there's an opportunity here to, you know, pull like a, you know, a sub stack as you scroll down, it'll like pop up like a, Hey, you're not subscribed or logged in.
Do you want to do that?
[00:25:51] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Or subscribe to read more.
[00:25:53] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Exactly.
[00:25:54] Dylan Redekop: Just put some stuff behind like a free paywall, but like a subscriber paywall.
[00:25:58] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I'm not always a huge fan of [00:26:00] those, but I think having a box that looks like you have to subscribe to keep reading is nice. Um, but if somebody clicks out, maybe they can still read it.
[00:26:08] Dylan Redekop: I know it would strike me too. Yeah. If you're, if you're into just getting the numbers, the numbers game and getting as many subscribers as you can, cause this is like a big media play, then yeah, you wouldn't want to get that. But I think, I just feel like Darren's going to want people who are very targeted.
So, you'll want the people who are going to subscribe so they can read more of this kind of stuff. So I think that it could make sense here. I don't think, I don't think his, his, um, revenue play here is with like sponsors and ads.
[00:26:34] Chenell Basilio: No, I would hope not. Um, I feel like his stuff is just way too valuable.
Should we jump into like social, like how he's promoting this on social?
[00:26:43] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I'd be curious to see what he's doing there. We can give a quick, quick diagnostic check on LinkedIn and potentially Twitter or yeah, because he's a public person.
[00:26:55] Chenell Basilio: I just, I searched his name and I got this, which is so fun. I love that he like pops [00:27:00] up everywhere and he's just like known.
So I clicked over, let's go to his Instagram. Um, I don't know if he's active, not quite. Okay. But he has. Quite a few links here. Um, read the next book. And this is his other website. And then his Facebook profile, which that's interesting. Craftsman Films. And then a consulting link. I wonder if that still works.
Yes, it does. That's fun. Okay. Um, people are still using Facebook. I'm just kidding.
[00:27:27] Dylan Redekop: It's the world we live in, apparently.
[00:27:29] Chenell Basilio: Um, okay. You
[00:27:31] Dylan Redekop: gotta keep your Facebook account for Marketplace, right?
[00:27:33] Chenell Basilio: Okay, so he has his Twitter, Craftsman Creative. Yeah, I wonder, but it goes to Craftsman Film. Does Craftsman Creative still exist?
Or did he redirect
[00:27:43] Dylan Redekop: it? I thought I saw it the other day. Yeah.
[00:27:45] Chenell Basilio: It is still there. Interesting.
[00:27:47] Dylan Redekop: Like that image right there on the bottom left. Where it shows him and a camera, like that's the image you could use for that landing page before, like, that's kind of the thing I was thinking.
[00:27:55] Chenell Basilio: All right. So we're on his LinkedIn profile and I clicked on one of his, uh, [00:28:00] featured links, if you will.
And it was learn how to invest in indie films. And it goes to that. Uh, interactive glossary table of contents, whatever you want to call it,
[00:28:08] Dylan Redekop: right? The live table of contents the live table of contents,
[00:28:11] Chenell Basilio: which is good, but I feel like you probably want to keep it concise He actually does have a joined craftsman films though.
So that so he did it right with this one So on the left, uh, the craftsman films one that goes to the learn page. He doesn't have this description text And that's good because it, it goes directly to that link. But then on this one on the right, if you add this description text, it opens this modal. So if you were to just delete this, it goes directly to the site, which is nice.
And that's what we want.
[00:28:37] Dylan Redekop: It's a good little LinkedIn hack.
[00:28:38] Chenell Basilio: Good little LinkedIn hack for you if you didn't know that.
[00:28:40] Dylan Redekop: So
[00:28:41] Chenell Basilio: yes, that. And then also he has this arrow image again, which I'm just like, Darren, put your face on here. Um, but he has it on this one. So I just feel like you could probably improve this a little bit.
Maybe say like chewing the newsletter or something.
[00:28:56] Dylan Redekop: My one thought was maybe there is a reason. We don't know. Obviously we're [00:29:00] just, he submitted his newsletter to be roasted and this is just our, like without context, um, kind of tear down of it, but maybe there is a reason why he doesn't want to have his face there for whatever reason, perhaps he's trying to build.
A brand and like, he has some exit strategy in a few years, so he doesn't want to build it around a personal brand, which I, which I'd get that, but if that's not the case, yeah, I see putting your face in here more often would not be a bad idea.
[00:29:24] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I don't want to go too deep into the LinkedIn thing, but I think I just wanted to see if he had it there.
He does have this with. The call out. Great job on this. Um, so in his experience, he has craftsman film as a page, which is great because it just kind of shows people like, you know, I had this other project I'm working on. Um, and then he does have the link out to the newsletter there too. So good job on that.
Uh, independent film producer creating blockbuster Indies at craftsman films and producer fund one. Is there a producer fund too?
[00:29:55] Dylan Redekop: I think that might just be a, is that fun? Oh, is it a one or is it like a.
[00:29:59] Chenell Basilio: [00:30:00] A pipe.
[00:30:00] Dylan Redekop: A pipe, yeah.
[00:30:01] Chenell Basilio: I don't know.
[00:30:02] Dylan Redekop: Oh, there's nothing after the pipes. That'd be weird.
[00:30:04] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I don't know.
Interesting. Um. And
[00:30:07] Dylan Redekop: then he's got his call to action.
[00:30:09] Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
[00:30:09] Dylan Redekop: Link.
[00:30:09] Chenell Basilio: And it goes links. craftsmancreative. co. But
[00:30:13] Dylan Redekop: redirects. Well, let's call it out for people who can't see. It says, invest where Hollywood won't.
[00:30:18] Chenell Basilio: Oh, that's great.
[00:30:19] Dylan Redekop: A little spicy. I kind of like that.
[00:30:21] Chenell Basilio: I kind of wish he had that like in his. Banner image on the top.
That's actually like brilliant. I really like that. I think he should probably put that on like the newsletter Sign up page like learn how to invest where Hollywood won't or yeah, that's that is spicy I like it use that more Darren. Yeah Put that elsewhere
[00:30:42] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Cause that's like, that's the, that's the whole angle of Dave versus Goliath and everyone's going to root for the smaller guy and people want to cheer you on that way.
So I think you can build,
[00:30:54] Chenell Basilio: I
[00:30:54] Dylan Redekop: don't know, some, a bit of a small fan base and, um,
[00:30:57] Chenell Basilio: yeah,
[00:30:59] Dylan Redekop: I think that's, [00:31:00] that could be valuable.
[00:31:01] Chenell Basilio: All right. Do we have anything else? I feel like we've talked about this for a while now. Yeah.
[00:31:05] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. No. No, I mean, we could go into the weeds more and I think it's important if people are wondering why we're not really kind of like tearing down his newsletter additions.
For one, we haven't received any yet. Um, but also I think it's important to note that like, without context as to the goal of the newsletter, um, who he's writing for previous information, we don't have newsletter content is so subjective. It's, it's pretty tough. Um, there's some stuff that's a little bit more objective.
In, in a newsletter, like your footer and you know, your intro, maybe images, that kind of thing. But for the most part, it's kind of hard to, to do a newsletter roast for content specifically.
[00:31:43] Chenell Basilio: I think the one last thing I'll say is a, I'm sorry for people who. Are seeing my 30 tabs or whatever open just from this one roast, but that is how my brain works.
Also, uh, he has the typical ghost. This image at the top of a tab is called a favicon. And [00:32:00] he could totally change this to be his like logo or even just like CF or like a camera. I don't know something that is like standing out more than the ghost image.
[00:32:09] Dylan Redekop: I mean, he could even use his craftsman creative or a version of his craftsman creative logo, the light bulb.
Um, why not? And I'm thinking, as I'm seeing this image here again, the investing indie film image, that's probably, you know, like WordPress, you've got the featured image for every post. That's probably what that is. And it just drags. It in to fill the full widths of the, like, you probably need an image there.
So that's probably why those are all big and huge and existent.
[00:32:34] Chenell Basilio: There's gotta be a way to update it though. The side. I'm sure. I'm
[00:32:37] Dylan Redekop: sure you could. Yeah.
[00:32:38] Chenell Basilio: All right. Well, I think that's going to wrap up here. Our first ever roast on the podcast. Um, this was fun. I love doing these.
[00:32:45] Dylan Redekop: This was a lot of fun. Um, hopefully helpful to people listening and to Darren, obviously.
Um, but, uh, what would be kind of, do you have any big. Sort of key takeaways for Darren from what we discussed today.
[00:32:57] Chenell Basilio: I would say lean into your expertise [00:33:00] for sure. Um, I think that's what's going to really move the needle with people wanting to subscribe and learn from you. Um, and put your face more, I know it's here, but like, I feel like there's just opportunities for you to, and maybe you do in other posts that I didn't see, but like share stories of like this one time I was doing this thing and here's an image.
I just feel like his. So I think if he can lean into that more, that's my main takeaway,
[00:33:27] Dylan Redekop: better landing page experience for smaller images and more focused, uh, messaging, more of Darren, more credibility and authority, it's like almost like a form of social proof. to some degree. So I think all those things you could definitely benefit from.
[00:33:41] Chenell Basilio: The little plug here. If you want to get your newsletter roasted, go to growth in reverse. com slash roasts. And, uh, there's a little form you can fill out and fun. If you go ahead and leave a rating or review on Apple and Spotify and put a little screenshot of that, uh, we actually. [00:34:00] Um, and we have about 20 people who have submitted roasts already, which is so fun, uh, but not all of them reviewed.
So you can stand out here and, uh, go ahead and get some ratings and reviews, help us get higher in the, uh, in the podcast readings for people who are looking to grow newsletters.
[00:34:17] Dylan Redekop: It'd be awesome. We'd appreciate it.
[00:34:19] Chenell Basilio: Well, this was super fun. Um, if you like this, please comment either in Spotify or YouTube and let us know.
And uh, yeah, I'm excited to do more of these
[00:34:28] Dylan Redekop: as am I. Great.
[00:34:30] Chenell Basilio: We'll see you later.