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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Kathleen:
[00:00:55] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to Sisters in Sobriety. Thanks [00:01:00] for being here. I'm Sonia and I'm with my sister in sobriety, actually my sister in law, Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing today?
[00:01:08] Kathleen: I'm doing really well. I'm doing really well. I am feeling good about life these days. How are you doing?
[00:01:14] Sonia: I am really good. I'm in a co working space, in a room called the phone booth. So I'm kind of excited. I don't co work and so I'm feeling it today. Okay. Okay.
[00:01:25] Kathleen: Awesome.
[00:01:26] Sonia: So today we are flipping the script on a fear we've all felt in recovery, which is, is all the fun over?
[00:01:34] Sonia: So if you're wondering whether life's sparkle has fizzled out the moment you chose sobriety, I have some good news for you.
[00:01:40] Kathleen: Sobriety can be the doorway to a more vibrant life, filled with genuine joy, more than you ever imagined when the wine was flowing and the mornings were rough.
[00:01:50] Sonia: And one of my favorite quotes, and I really keep it close to me on hard days, is Mary Carr's quote, When I got sober, I thought I was saying goodbye [00:02:00] to all the fun and all the sparkle, and it turned out just to be the opposite. And that's when the sparkle started for me. So this isn't just about staying sober.
[00:02:11] Sonia: It's about thriving in Technicolor.
[00:02:14] Kathleen: In today's show, we're going to unearth the joy that sobriety holds. We're talking about the deep laughs that come from real conversations. Sonia and I have had quite a few of those. The adventures that feel like they're in high definition, and the morning wake ups filled with clear heads and bright eyes.
[00:02:31] Sonia: So put on some comfy socks, grab your favorite non alcoholic drink, and let's chat about how sobriety isn't the end of the party. It's just the beginning of a new celebration and let's get to it and let the fun begin. So Kathleen, how has your definition of fun evolved since you became sober?
[00:02:50] Kathleen: Wow, that's such a big question because, I Fun looks so different to me now than when I was. Using drugs. My [00:03:00] definition of fun is really shifted. Fun for me was going out all the time, staying out all night, and that is definitely not what I see as fun anymore. Some of it, I will say, has to do with my stage of life though, not just sobriety, and I just feel like fun things are much more low key.
[00:03:17] Kathleen: I do like to spend time with people. People, but not as much as I used to. I definitely don't like going to super crazy, loud places. Um, I definitely prefer low key. So yeah, it's really, it's really shifted. Absolutely. The things I do now for fun are very different than what I used to do. How do you describe the sparkle of sobriety to someone who's curious about it?
[00:03:46] Kathleen: Mm
[00:03:47] Sonia: there's a really specific clarity that comes with sobriety and some people start to feel it after a few days or a few weeks of being sober. And there is this first time that you see [00:04:00] something that's awe inspiring when you're sober. So That's when you feel the sparkle, whether it's a sunset, sunrise, a first snow, that first cup of coffee.
[00:04:12] Sonia: and for me, I actually remember it was a sunset. because also sunsets were around when I would start drinking, right? So that's when my major kind of cravings would kick in. And I remember a few weeks into being sober, this very specific sunset and thinking, this is amazing, that I get to be sober.
[00:04:32] Sonia: every other day for the last 10 years, I would have been drunk for this, and I really, I felt the sparkle then.
[00:04:38] Kathleen: What are some of the misconceptions listeners might have about fun and sobriety?
[00:04:43] Sonia: Yeah, I think there's for sure this idea, and I had it, right? That I wouldn't be able to enjoy certain things anymore, and they would just be off limits, This was weird. I thought I would never enjoy music the same way again. I thought I would never dance again. Uh, I thought I wouldn't want to [00:05:00] celebrate New Year's Eve.
[00:05:01] Sonia: But you can. Do they require adjustments? For sure. it's not the same, but I feel like it really can be better. What was your turning point that made you see sobriety could be joyful?
[00:05:13] Kathleen: I think it really had to do, for me, with my body, actually. I just felt so amazing, physically. And I just had so much more energy. I wasn't lethargic. I didn't need cocaine to, pick me up. so I really felt amazing after sleeping a full night. And just finding simple pleasures.
[00:05:37] Kathleen: mornings for me, I love mornings. So I get up at 5 a. m. And I could never have done that really. Well, I would go to bed at 5 a. m. Like I just I would never Have enjoyed mornings and like for example this morning. I the lilacs are starting to come out where I am So I got up at 5 I went for a walk with my dog at 6 and I literally [00:06:00] stopped and smelled lilacs on my walk and that was so Amazing to me.
[00:06:06] Kathleen: And it was fun. I had a good walk. I saw some turkeys. I smelled the lilacs. But I never would have done that before. Never. What was your turning point?
[00:06:16] Sonia: Yeah, so the first few months were really rough. I tried going to a bar and it sucked and everything just seemed hard. And then around three months of being sober, I went to Italy and I had booked the trip when I was still drinking. So whenever I pictured the trip, I pictured wine tasting, like wine heavy dinners, Negroni's at lunch, which By the way, if that's how you view a trip to Italy, you may want to re examine your own drinking.
[00:06:48] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:06:49] Sonia: also there, there's so much more to vacations than drinking and so many more fulfilling things to do. So that vacation on my second day in [00:07:00] Florence, I remember waking up early and walking on the Ponte Vecchio in Florence. And Seeing the sunrise and it was breathtaking. And again, like the sunset I had experienced earlier just wouldn't have been possible a few months before, right?
[00:07:17] Sonia: I would have had a crazy wine tasting at dinner and gotten up way later the next day, not felt good. Would have probably stayed in bed and ordered room service. And that's a theme that comes up so much for me. I do experience things that weren't possible when I was drinking. So yeah, I don't get that rush of the first sip of wine anymore, but I get something way better that's still fun and it's more sustainable.
[00:07:45] Sonia: Are you looking to reset your relationship with alcohol? Look no further than our self paced seven day reset program. In just one week, you'll gain the tools and support you need to kickstart your journey to a healthier, more [00:08:00] balanced lifestyle.
[00:08:01] Our program includes daily audio, helpful exercises, and guided reflections. And best of all, it's on your time. Head over to sistersinsobriety. substack. com and let's take that first step together towards a better you.
[00:08:15] Kathleen: So I remember when you were drinking and you were really like fun, Sonia, I remember being at a dinner with you when I was pregnant and you were just like, Fun Sonia.
[00:08:28] Kathleen: So what, what changed about your identity?
[00:08:32] Sonia: I was wild and crazy for sure. So for me, I had started drinking in large part because of my social anxiety and over time it had started to shape my identity. Partly because I was so young, I think, when I started drinking and it really started to shape that outward facing identity. And so I was wild and crazy and up for anything and I was, loud and outgoing and I [00:09:00] said outrageous things and people had come to expect that of me.
[00:09:04] Sonia: And so while I had created this persona based on alcohol, that's really not who I was inside. And I knew that I needed to stop drinking, but I was terrified. I was worried that I would be this serious, irritable person who was judgy or jealous of other people's drinking. And that kept me drinking for a long time.
[00:09:28] Sonia: So even though I had an idea of the types of things I wanted to accomplish and the way I wanted to feel now that I wasn't drinking, I didn't know how to reconcile that with the only way I knew how to socialize. So I really leaned into things and people I loved and fun just happened. Actual, real, memorable, authentic fun.
[00:09:51] Sonia: And for me, it had a lot to do with feeling like me, which I hadn't felt like in a long time. And when I was [00:10:00] drinking, I was mostly hungover, not feeling like my best self. And when I was drunk, it felt like I was having fun. But honestly, looking back, it was more of a performance of fun, right? From the outside, I was laughing, I was wild.
[00:10:16] Sonia: But I said and did a lot of things that I regretted or didn't remember. And The fun was sort of tainted by this, guilt or shame. So, I'm not going to say that getting wasted and dancing all night on a table isn't fun, but I am going to say it wasn't worth or isn't worth the consequences. Being hungover, I missed, I missed my cousin's engagement party.
[00:10:42] Sonia: Um, the next day, getting so drunk I told someone their boyfriend seemed interested in other women. or even like picking a fight with my partner about something useless.
[00:10:54] Sonia: So How can sobriety impact our sense of self confidence and [00:11:00] self expression in social settings?
[00:11:01] Kathleen: Well, sobriety can really change how confident you feel and how freely you express yourself when you're around others. But when you stop using substances, you are We'll need to face those social fears directly, right? So like you don't have that coping mechanism of the drink anymore or the drugs, and it's tough at first, but it can help you understand yourself better and actually will boost your confidence.
[00:11:27] Kathleen: You know, when we go through tough things. There's growth that comes from that, and that can really, really boost your self confidence. Um, being sober means you can think more clearly and manage your emotions better. You're able to Really choose your response and versus reacting, um, more. And this is a work in progress for people who are sober or not sober, but, it really helps when you're not using substances to do that.
[00:11:53] Kathleen: So that can help you speak your mind and connect with people more genuinely versus that performance that you were [00:12:00] talking about that, the fun performance you you're more genuine now when you're, when you're sober, how, how you're interacting with people. How can our sense of identity change when we start to get sober?
[00:12:13] Sonia: Yeah, like I mentioned, it starts, I think, with this social outward facing persona, because I think deep down we know who we are, but what we're projecting is different. So it was like I was living this sort of like imitation Sonia, and the real Sonia was down there under the alcohol. So I think the best way to explain it is when we get sober, we start to uncover the parts of ourselves that have been hidden a long time.
[00:12:38] Sonia: Like dusting off a book that's been sitting on the shelf for a while. So, how do we work on having a sense of identity without alcohol?
[00:12:47] Kathleen: Well, I, I think this is, trial and error in a sense. I think that values are really important. So understanding what your values are, not what you value when you're using a substance, but your actual [00:13:00] values, what matters most to you, and then kind of going from there.
[00:13:04] Kathleen: So what things do you like doing? Who do you like spending time with? Are they aligned with your values? Are they not aligned with your values? What does fun mean to you now? And how is that aligned with your values? So I think that. It's trial and error though, because I think that you will try some things and be like, Oh, that's not who I am.
[00:13:25] Kathleen: You know, that's just not who I am. And if you feel disharmony in something you're doing, generally it means that it's not aligned with your values. So that's why I definitely suggest and recommend starting with the values first, identifying those
[00:13:38] Kathleen: there's this concept that alcohol makes us uninhibited and it shows us who we truly are.
[00:13:45] Kathleen: What do you think about that?
[00:13:47] Sonia: I, I think that's such bullshit. I probably did believe it when I was drinking. It was like, oh, I'm a truth sayer. Um, but I don't, I don't believe it at all now. I think, Alcohol made me take risks that I [00:14:00] otherwise would not have taken, but honestly they were almost all bad. So I took like physical risks starting back in high school, not having safe transportation, not being with people I knew well.
[00:14:12] Sonia: and as I got older, like getting super drunk in high heels. Passing out at a club, and I'm sure you've done this, you've smoking or taking something of unknown origin that somebody gives you. And there are emotional risks, right? I was picking the wrong people to have in my life. People that supported that lifestyle of drinking and not really me.
[00:14:32] Sonia: And the idea of telling the truth, I really, yeah, did I say things I wouldn't have said sober? For sure. But they weren't. kind or helpful or even necessarily true. So I think you say more, but I think you say more hurtful, mean things. What do you think about that idea that alcohol reveals the
[00:14:58] Kathleen: I think it's such a common [00:15:00] thing that we hear, right? But it's not accurate. It's, while drinking can lower your inhibitions, like you talked about, and, you know, Make you take more risks. I'm thinking about it as you were like listing off the things you were doing. I was like, my gosh, like I won't even get into it.
[00:15:15] Kathleen: My mother listens to our podcast and I feel like I need some more time with her one on one before I get into the lengthy list of things I did, but let's just say I was known for falling down stairs. a lot. That was my thing. And so yeah, it's not, it does lower your inhibitions, um, and makes you less reserved, but it doesn't mean that you're showing your true self or you're, you're, you're sharing your deepest truths.
[00:15:41] Kathleen: I think that alcohol affects your judgment so much and it can lead you to do things or say things that you don't actually believe and regret when you're, when you've sobered up. I think that. It can distort how we express our feelings and handle situations, and it [00:16:00] can make you feel like you're more open, but it can also lead to exaggerated emotions or reactions that don't actually reflect your real thoughts or intentions.
[00:16:09] Sonia: Yeah, I totally agree. getting back to this idea, in what ways do you think sobriety allows us to rediscover aspects of ourselves that we had forgotten or overlooked?
[00:16:20] Kathleen: Well, with a clearer mind, you can reconnect with passions that used to be passions of yours or find new interests. You also experience emotions more deeply, which can be a good thing and also can be a more challenging thing, but it can really help you understand what truly makes you happy. Like I mentioned earlier, physically, you can feel more energetic and you can become interested in other things like sports or things that you like, ways that you're moving your body. You could more drawn to new people or places that reflect who you actually are. So I think that. Being sober, it really removes that. If you think of it like a curtain over you or [00:17:00] a veil over you, it removes that. And so you're able to experience things more deeply and also understand what you actually like.
[00:17:08] Kathleen: How do we find activities that are fun now that we're sober?
[00:17:12] Sonia: I think that we need to look backwards a bit towhen we were kids, right? To kind of recapture that childish ness in us. And I think first figure out, like, what is the feeling that you're looking for? What do you think fun is? Is it freedom? Is it laughing? Is it about moving your body? So it's important to ask yourself these questions before it was drinking.
[00:17:35] Sonia: What gave you joy? And I found that drinking actually took away that kind of playful spark in me. And since I disagree with the idea that it makes you uninhibited, we need to find things that really, truly do make us feel uninhibited. How do you think we can find activities?
[00:17:55] Kathleen: it's like a trying and exploring thing. I totally agree with [00:18:00] your, your idea like looking back to childhood. What did you like to do? I think that sometimes we can also feel What's the word like, we can almost be judgmental of ourselves, right? There's that saying like dance, like no one's watching, we actually just decided right.
[00:18:20] Kathleen: Sonia that we are going to go and dance. And I wanted to ecstatic dance,
[00:18:25] Sonia: just talked about, we literally were like, how can we have more fun? And you were like, let's go ecstatic dancing. I was like, oh.
[00:18:32] Kathleen: but here's the thing. I. really feel judgmental about myself when I do that, but I'm like, okay, I want to do that with you. Let's go do that. So let's be brave. That was what I was going to say. It is brave to go out of your comfort zone. It's not necessarily in my comfort zone to go ecstatic dancing, but I really want to try it.
[00:18:52] Kathleen: And you have to try and explore different things that you might not necessarily do.
[00:18:57] Sonia: Yeah, I totally agree. Let's go [00:19:00] ecstatic dancing. Speaking of, what did happen to your social life, or the way you began to experience fun once you got sober? I don't know.
[00:19:12]
[00:19:13] Kathleen: Oh, it was really, I would love to be able to say it was a transition and it wasn't. It was very overnight because of the way I got sober from drugs. It was like, I went away for a month and then I came back and it was like I was in a sense to my friends at least a different person because Literally, I was partying with them the night before I left and I was always always the life of the party I was the The joiner.
[00:19:45] Kathleen: So I would like brain. I would connect people. I've always been the connector in a sense, like always connecting people together. And I definitely did that. And then when I got back, I wasn't interested. I wasn't well, first of all, I didn't want to go to places where, you [00:20:00] know, cocaine would be readily available.
[00:20:02] Kathleen: I didn't really want to hang out with my friends in that way. I didn't want to be out all night. And so, I'm not going to sugarcoat it, my friends didn't really, well, this is my belief, that my friends didn't really see me as fun anymore, and I really had to shift away from, My friend group. Now, some of the friends I had then still remain, but it's interesting because one of my best friends was my friend back then and she's sober now too.
[00:20:31] Kathleen: So, it did shift. It shifted away the things I wanted to do. And I, I'm not, again, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. There were some lonely times for me because I felt. Like, I wasn't interested in doing those things anymore. I remember for New Year's, my first year that I was sober, I went with a friend of mine to a yoga class that was like at midnight.
[00:20:52] Kathleen: And that was really fun to me. Uh, I just, I started doing a lot of things solo and then I started making new friends. [00:21:00] and so my, my, my. My social life did change and then my experience of fun definitely changed. it doesn't even occur to me now to go to a bar
[00:21:10] Kathleen: it's just not even something I would want to do. What are some of the things that you feel like bring you true joy now and that feel fun for you?
[00:21:22] Sonia: Yes, it varies so much, but I feel true joy and happiness when I'm with you and my nieces, and the moments are so crystallized now compared to what they were before when I was drinking.
[00:21:35] Sonia: So, like your daughter and I, I know you remember this, making the lemon pie last Christmas.
[00:21:40] Sonia: summer in the morning and dancing to EDM, and it was just like so spontaneous and fun. And I didn't do things like that when I was drinking. And with my older nieces, a couple of weeks ago, I asked them to come over on a Saturday evening to teach me how to use the equipment in my gym. and it was so [00:22:00] fun.
[00:22:00] Sonia: And then we like, Went to dinner in our gym clothes. And for me, that's uninhibited. Have you ever seen me go to dinner in gym clothes? No.
[00:22:08] Kathleen: Yeah, I
[00:22:08] Kathleen: also
[00:22:09] Sonia:
[00:22:09] Kathleen: paint the picture though, when you were dancing, listening to EDM, it was like early in the morning, like I'm talking like 738. I was like meditating out on your porch and all of a sudden it's like EDM is blasting and I have video of you guys dancing. So yeah, that's like so much fun.
[00:22:29] Sonia: It's so much fun! Like we, we were truly uninhibited. I didn't know you were taking the video and we were just like, we were dancing with the speaker, we were like, yeah, we were waiting for the music to hit and then like, we thought we were at a club. and she is nine. So she was not at the club.
[00:22:50] Sonia: But there, yeah, there's something also really interesting exhilarating for me when I'm trying something new or out of my comfort zone, which I didn't do before. So all [00:23:00] my social activities were bars, clubs, dinners, and so no no mini golf, no bowling, nothing that required any skill. And so I'm more open to doing things that are out of my comfort
[00:23:15] Kathleen: Mm hmm, mm hmm
[00:23:17] Sonia: is a typical fun weekend for you like now, Kathleen?
[00:23:21] Kathleen: I feel like I have to qualify this because I'm also a single mom and I have a nine and a half year old and so I Feel like I might do different things. That would be fun if I wasn't a single mom, but because I have those responsibilities, too so I I'll, I'll tell you when my fun weekend is and it is fun for me, I love getting out into nature and I love trying new restaurants.
[00:23:47] Kathleen: I love, I am the queen of exploring new things. So I often have people say how did you find out about that festival? Or how did you know that was happening? How did you know that that place was there? Because I research and I love trying new [00:24:00] things. And. And I spent like last weekend, I spent a really good chunk of my weekend working on the gardens around my house, like doing container gardening.
[00:24:10] Kathleen: And at one point I would have been frustrated by that and not felt like I wanted to do it, but the sun was shining, I was really happy. I got to go to a farm to pick out my plants and this was really Fun for me. So holidays and celebrations can feel even tougher for some people.
[00:24:29] Kathleen: How do you approach holidays and celebrations when you're sober? We
[00:24:34] Sonia: so these are supposed to be fun events, right? this is supposed to be fun. And we definitely talk about this in our holidays episodes, but without putting too much pressure on ourselves, we should prioritize first. First, staying sober, and second, having fun. And we've talked about ways to do this, and one really great way, and I do this, we do this, is to create new traditions, and that's what [00:25:00] I most look forward to.
[00:25:01] Sonia: We were already talking about Christmas Eve fondue last week. And it's that stuff, for me, that makes it so fun and so exciting, so these new traditions. AndSpeaking of, how do you deal with FOMO, or fear of missing out, in social situations?
[00:25:20] Kathleen: I don't even get FOMO anymore. I have to say like, I really, you know that there's the JOMO now, right? The joy of missing out. I feel like I have JOMO most of the time. Yeah, I do. The joy of missing out. I do. I think my FOMO is actually for certain people, not, not places or situations. So. if I'm on Instagram, let's say, and I see some of my friends when I used to live, I don't live in Toronto anymore, but when I did, like, I'll see them going to like a really cool market.
[00:25:48] Kathleen: I'll be like I miss them. I miss those people versus the situation. but I think that, it's definitely when you're first getting sober that FOMO, uh, can be tough and there [00:26:00] are different ways you can handle it. First of all. Try to see things differently.instead of thinking about what you're missing, think about the benefits of waking up clearheaded and making real connections with people.
[00:26:12] Kathleen: I'm a big proponent of mindfulness and I think that can really keep you focused on the present moment instead of worrying about what you're missing. And if FOMO really gets to you, I think just Talking about it to someone that you trust can make a big difference. I know I've talked to you about having FOMO in the past and again, it was for certain people, not situations.
[00:26:32] Kathleen: And I think that made it feel better. Can you describe an instance where sobriety made an event actually more enjoyable?
[00:26:42] Sonia: I always tell people this, that concerts are way better sober, and I remember my last few concerts when I was drinking, and I was so preoccupied with getting my next drink that I wasn't focused on the concert, or I was in [00:27:00] line getting my next drink. I really, I missed some of George Michael.
[00:27:05] Sonia: Like careless whisper. Cause I was trying to get a drink
[00:27:09] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:27:11] Kathleen: I've so been there. Not with George Michael, but with Jack Johnson. I missed an entire concert because I was wandering around.
[00:27:19] Kathleen: Hi.
[00:27:21] Sonia: yes, it is like, so yeah, it's like you spend money on it. You're excited about the experience and then you don't,
[00:27:27] Kathleen: Mm
[00:27:27] Sonia: feel like it's a
[00:27:28] Sonia: bit of a letdown when you're just sort of like looking for drinks and so, um, yeah. And and I've had clients of mine say, I missed my favorite song.
[00:27:37] Sonia: I don't remember Taylor Swift,singing my favorite song. And so, I have heard so much feedback about this concert thing, and that concerts are so much better.
[00:27:49] Kathleen: hmm. Well, what simple pleasures have you discovered or rediscovered? Since becoming sober. It sounds like listening to music is one of them, but, but what else? [00:28:00] I
[00:28:00] Sonia: I'm really, I'm really into this sense of awe. And I think that's also in the last couple of years. Um, I'd love to bring up my divorce, but that guy was like, my ex was not
[00:28:14] Kathleen: love that you always call him, that guy.
[00:28:19] Sonia: That guy is kind. Okay. That's kind. Compared to what I want to say.
[00:28:24] Kathleen: he's not kind, but that guy, that phrase is kind.
[00:28:28] Sonia: He truly though, like, I don't know if you felt this way, But He lacked a sense of awe.
[00:28:33] Kathleen: Oh yeah,
[00:28:34] Kathleen: for sure.
[00:28:35] Sonia: He really lacked, Especially in the simple things, he may have been like, Oh wow, look at this like super expensive hotel or whatever, but there was something about like having awe over simple things.
[00:28:48] Sonia: And so I don't know if I worked on it, but I definitely notice andcultivate that feeling. And so really it's about simple things. So mostly things in nature, but [00:29:00] also other things. And it's really about this out of body experience in a sense, like it's surreal. It takes your breath away.
[00:29:08] Sonia: And I definitely did not have those moments sober. And if I did, they were fleeting. Like I wasn't able to hold the feeling like I can now.
[00:29:18] Kathleen: hmm.
[00:29:19] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:29:19] Sonia: How do you maintain a sense of adventure and spontaneity and sobriety?
[00:29:25] Kathleen: Oh, how do I maintain the sense of adventure?
[00:29:31] Kathleen: I mean again, I think I think my stage of life is a little bit different I will say before I had a daughter traveling was really a big deal for me. and I think it still will be very much so in my life. And I think I got a lot of my sense of adventure by going to new places, but I think it's trying different things.
[00:29:52] Kathleen: if you think of it on a smaller scale, like I don't need to go backpacking through India. I can try something new and I love [00:30:00] experiencing things with my daughter now in that sense. And so I think there's plenty of, activities like that can be thrilling and fulfilling, if not more, without alcohol.
[00:30:08] Kathleen: I mean, I can't even imagine going zip lining drunk. I think that would be a safety hazard and not advisable, but I would hate doing that. So. I think it's also saying yes to unexpected invitations or opportunities. Sometimes that might come your way. I am, I am a planner for sure, but I have been reaching out to some friends lately for last minute stuff.
[00:30:32] Kathleen: Like, if I. Don't have, a set of clients in the morning, I will text a friend and say, Hey, you want to go and do this and just, just throwing it out there with a last minute idea. And I think that can really bring spontaneity and adventure, back into your life.
[00:30:49] Sonia: Yeah, I totally agree. Okay. So what strategies help you stay motivated and excited about your sober
[00:30:56] Kathleen: Well, I think that, setting some clear achievable [00:31:00] goals can be helpful. So related to your health or personal projects or new skills you want to learn, and that can be, I want to go to a new place this month. It doesn't mean you have to get on a plane. It can mean, okay, I am going to look at a map or I'm going to do some research and I'm going to go like an hour away or 15 minutes away or, planning what you might do you don't have to plan it exactly out if you want to bring spontaneity into that But just just giving yourself a goal of I'm gonna try one new thing this month I actually have in my I have a weekly planner and I have Um, a section that's learn something or try something new every single week, and I put something in there every single week, so I think that's a great strategy, and I think joining support groups like ever bloom or communities, either in person or online can help you share experiences and challenges around doing these things sober.
[00:31:54] Kathleen: I think it's really important to talk about it with community. How do [00:32:00] you think that your perspective on joy and fun has changed since becoming sober? Yeah,
[00:32:11] Sonia: been talking about it a little bit, like how to get your wild back, and I think I've been thinking about it for a couple weeks, and I don't think that it means being out of control. or putting yourself in risky situations. So for me, I was self medicating anxiety and depression with alcohol.
[00:32:29] Sonia: So anything that reduces my feelings of anxiety and gets me out of my head, so not journaling, but something where I'm not focused on the hard things, when I get this sense that everything's going to be okay, I'm going to be okay, that is really for me that feeling of I guess wild or something that feels like freedom, right?
[00:32:55] Sonia: And so that's been really hard for me the last couple of years. So when I [00:33:00] feel that, I know I found something. So when I feel that where like everything in my body's like, you're gonna be okay. It's all gonna be okay. That, that is like gives me a sense of freedom and fun. So if I find something that gives me that, I'm I'm gonna do that again,
[00:33:19] Kathleen: I've been really thinking about that, that concept of freedom lately because
[00:33:24] Sonia: yeah.
[00:33:25] Kathleen: think that when I was using drugs, I felt free, like, but that, that's what I thought freedom felt like. I also think that, I used to love to travel and not just travel to, all inclusives in the Caribbean, but like really off the beaten path travel.
[00:33:44] Kathleen: I equated that with freedom too and more and more I'm resonating with what you just said like that freedom, that thought of freedom has really changed for me and I feel free now within myself [00:34:00] and that is way, way different than it used to be.
[00:34:03] Sonia: I love that. I think it takes a while, right? To understand what freedom is, especially once you get sober. I think that when people would say wild or free, I just pictured being drunk and that actually isn't. Being wild and free. what are some common challenges people face when trying to have fun sober and how can they overcome those?
[00:34:29] Kathleen: I think like feeling out of place at social events where everyone else seems to be drinking. I think that's getting. better in the sense that I feel like there are more and more people who are sober, but I think that, you've talked about this, we've both talked about this, that having a plan in place to navigate those situations is really important and it can make you feel more comfortable.
[00:34:53] Kathleen: another challenge could be dealing with questions or pressure from people about why you're not drinking. And so [00:35:00] again, we've talked about this in past episodes, having a simple response ready, you don't have to tell everyone your whole story. You can either say that you're, you don't drink, or you can say I'm focusing on my health.
[00:35:12] Kathleen: and most people will respect that and move on. And I think the FOMO is, it's, It's a challenge, too. And so, really, Engaging in activities that genuinely interest you really. And I am often saying that to my clients, that comparison is the thief of joy. So if we're comparing ourselves to other people and the FOMO is there, it's like, no, what are you doing now in the moment?
[00:35:38] Kathleen: What are you, what plans do you have or what do you want to do to bring fun to your life? So really focusing on that.
[00:35:44] Sonia: And so what advice would you give someone struggling to find fun in sobriety while also trying to redefine their identity?
[00:35:52] Kathleen: Yeah, that can be challenging because you're trying to find fun and then redefining your identity, but they can also go hand in hand. And so really [00:36:00] start by exploring new activities to see what actually interests you and be patient with yourself as you try different things. Like not everything is going to be a hit.
[00:36:08] Kathleen: I can't, I did five paint nights, where you do the one picture and I, I hate paint nights. I do not like paint nights. I am not doing that anymore, but I tried it and each one, each activity teaches you more and more about yourself. Connecting with other people that are on a similar path can definitely make this more enjoyable.
[00:36:29] Kathleen: So whether you're joining, a group or joining a club that's more aligned with your interest. I know you are a member of a book club, Sonia. You've had you've joined photography groups before. It can really help align your interest with, with a group of like minded people and then.
[00:36:46] Kathleen: Also reflecting on your progress. I think that one of the things in general that I at least find with the clients I see that we don't do enough of is celebrate how far we've come [00:37:00] and our successes. So even just attempting to try new activities is cause for celebration and I got out of my comfort zone.
[00:37:08] Kathleen: That's a great thing. What resonated with you the most today about our episode?
[00:37:15] Sonia: This is what resonated with me the most, is Jomo. The joy of missing out. And not only because it's, Sounds ridiculous. but it, so accurately defines how I feel So that moment, when I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go home. Like if I'm out with my friends and they're drinking and I get to this point where I'm kind of like, I just want to go home and watch Netflix and, you know, snuggle with my dogs and eat some ice cream.
[00:37:42] Sonia: Um, that. I don't feel bad about it, but it's hard to explain it without sounding judgy. It's like, well, I don't want to wake up with a hangover. It's like, no, no, no. It's Jomo. It's the joy of missing out on that experience. I am, I have joy over it. And so it's, it's not like [00:38:00] I'm judging other people or it's just that I feel a personal
[00:38:05] Kathleen: Yes.
[00:38:06] Sonia: out.
[00:38:06] Sonia: What about? Jomo,
[00:38:09] Sonia: oh my god, it's like Joe Bros. Um, so what, what resonated with you
[00:38:15] Kathleen: Well, actually, I think what you said about freedom, because I've been thinking a lot about that. And, not just in the context of sobriety, but just in stages of life too. And I think that freedom is also an inside job. Like it is. It is. It's not necessarily. What you're doing, although that can help, but it is really a perspective and a mindset shift.
[00:38:41] Kathleen: And so that, that component of freedom is something that really stuck with me today.
[00:38:46] Kathleen: Thank you for listening to Sisters in Sobriety, and we will see you next week. [00:39:00]