Ep.69: ILya Koshkin the Dark Lord of Optics

ILya Koshkin, AKA The Dark Lord of Optics, is an optical physicist who is extremely passionate about sharing his love and knowledge of all things optics in a straightforward and understandable way.  

With over 2 decades of experience in imaging, optoelectronics and electro-optics ILya works with a wide range of visible and infrared imaging systems, lasers, targeting payloads and weapon sights and has also dabbled in spectroradiometry and hyperspectral imaging.  This is to say, ILya’s knowledge and experience with optics is extremely well founded.

Having come from the USSR, ILya also has a unique perspective on politics and has written numerous papers on the subject.  Check out his website and YouTube channel if you would like to hear more.

 

https://darklordofoptics.com 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LveRHZgnq469aWVQVhM2w 

https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/?hl=en

 

This episode contains a note to Paul Rogan’s memory and his role in creating the Canadian Access to Firearms newspaper.  If you would like to see what optics, and other items, are available for sale right now, please check out: 

https://canadianguns.com

 

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Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the

Silvercore Podcast.

Silvercore has been
providing its members

with the skills and
knowledge necessary to be

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in on everything that
Silvercore stands for.

I want to take a moment
to reflect on the life

of Paul Rogan, who
recently passed and who

founded and produced
the Canadian access

to firearms newspaper
since 1984, my friend

Donovan is carrying on
the legacy that Paul

created by continuing
publication of the news.

Canada's largest print by
itself and the shooting

sports for those who are
interested, I've put a

link in the description.

If you've ever had an
interest in optics,

weather, scopes,
binoculars, thermal

night, vision and more
you're in luck today,

I'm joined by the dark
Lord of optics himself.

Welcome to the Silvercore
Podcast, iLya Koshkin.

Wow.

Thank you for having me.

And it's a
self-proclaimed

dark road of optics.

So the, I did not really
come up with that.

Well, I'm going to ask
you about that in a

little bit, but for the
listeners, for those

who aren't aware is
an optical physicist

who has a talent for
taking complex ideas

and problems and
relaying them in the

most simplistic way.

So that they're
understandable

by everyone.

He does this through
his website and YouTube

channel named the dark
Lord of optics and

https://darklordofoptics.locals.Com.

And I'm gonna have
links to that in

the description.

So you guys can
check it out.

Now Eylea, I received
an email from a good

friend of mine and
past Silvercore Podcast

guests, Paul Ballard,
who in turn, got the

email from firearms
instructor and mutual

friend, Curtis Miller.

Chuck saying, you
have to check out this

Elliot fellow I did.

And the content that
you provide is amazing.

And so I jumped at
the chance to have

you on as a guest here

and amazing.

I don't know either
one of those guys know

you probably don't.

I probably should.

Well, you know, we spoke
off air about kind of

the best way to get
this information across.

And we're talking about
breaking this into

segments and where we
do a general overview

of you and what you're
about and a bit about

optics and what people
should be thinking about.

And we can follow this
up at a later point

with questions that
people might have more

specific to optics.

And you're talking
about more of a, sort

of a white board lesson
where we get into the

ins and outs of what.

What people should
be looking for in

optics and a bit of
an education there.

So, uh, we'll, we'll
have that available at

a later date as well.

So I was like
a good plan.

So Ilya, can you tell
me a little bit about

yourself and how you
got into this wonderful

world of optics?

Uh, three lectures, OCD?

Uh, no, uh, it was
kind of a funky story.

Uh, I'm an optical
physicist by education.

I have degree in applied
physics from a place

called Caltech in
California, but not on

a, what we call classical
optomechanical systems

like rifle scopes.

My field of expertise is
actually electronics, uh,

image, sensors, cameras,
surveillance systems,

targeting systems.

I worked on things at
top in space flight

and the drones,
that kind of stuff.

I, when I was in
college, I purely by

accident, uh, ended up
getting into guns and

shooting mostly because
I don't handle failure.

Very well.

Friend of mine dragged me
out to a shooting range.

We rented a gun that
fired five shots at

the target from I
think, seven yards.

Uh, another single shot
even touched the paper.

Oh no.

So I think I've mentioned
that I don't handle

failure very well.

So fast forward, 25
years here we are.

But basically I started
shooting, right.

I bought a hand gun.

I bought a rifle.

I bought a cheap
Chinese, uh, scope to

put on that rifle and
it promptly fell apart.

I hit the internet
looking for, uh,

looking for information
and the stuff I got.

It's a nice way
of saying this.

Let's go with asinine.

I think that's not
getting anybody

to democratize.

And here's the catch.

I didn't know much of
anything about rifle

school, but I had a good
background in optics.

So I started digging,
took a couple apart,

uh, bought a couple
here and there.

And I started, uh,
talking about my

impressions and
comparing optics and

trying to explain
why everybody else is

wrong and I'm right.

Something that makes
me want to do that.

Uh, but in this case,
most other people were

wrong and I was right
for a simple reason

that I did not approach
this from a shooter

standpoint, I approached
it from a nerdy guy

standpoint and that
was different enough.

Uh, when the company
called as WFA op in

Texas, they have a forum
called optic stock.

That's where I
somehow landed

purely by accident.

Uh, they reached
out to me and said,

Hey, um, we'll like
what you do with.

And we will
offer you a deal.

And the deal was
that whatever they

had in stock, I was
able to purchase at a

reasonable discount.

So I could play with
it, do a review,

sell it, sell it
and not lose money.

And that's really
what got me into this.

Okay.

So you owe it all to
a significant degree

to has WFM still
friendly with them.

They're good people.

And, um, I started
basically writing

things up and it
went from there.

I, uh, then at some
point I got tired

of repeating myself
on different forums.

So I started a website
where I could write

this up a post it
and then link to it.

And then I did another
website because

I needed a better
blogging function.

That's the download
of options.com.

I started YouTube channel
purely by accident.

Once again, after shot
show, I want you to

talk into a camera to
record things while

I remember them.

And people started
watching that, so, okay.

I'll have a
YouTube channel.

Yeah.

I and that at some point
I realized this is taking

me a lot of time and
that it can be monetized.

What was, I was trying
to figure out how to

monetize had guns.

And Emma came on, came
knocking and said,

do you want to do
some writing for us?

So I started writing
for guns and animals,

especially in
just publications.

And here we are, my
hobby became a side

business and my wife
could no longer tell

me to stop doing it
because it is a job.

Right.

Because a

job.

Yeah, I hear you.

Well, w what is your
full business that you

do?

So for my day job, I
run a small company that

builds electro-optical
test equipment, the

types of things that
they use to test that

characterize once again,
all the different optical

systems I've mentioned
before, including rifle,

scopes, among other
things, and lenses and

cameras, uh, lots of,
lots of targeting systems

would go on unmanned,
aerial vehicles, things

like that, more or less.

Anything that has
to do with optics

or electronics.

We do equipment to test
and make sense of it and

in an odd sort of way.

So I've spent a part of
my career, developing

image, sensors, and
cameras and stuff like

that for movies and also
for the military and

probably an even larger,
even when I was doing

that, a very significant
part of what I did was

always test measurement
and characterization.

So the specific niche
where I've always

worked, wasn't trying to
understand and quantify

how well things work.

Right?

So when I started, uh,
doing reviews and rifle,

scopes, the mindset I had
was extremely applicable

because I've spent my
entire professional

career trying to figure
out how things work,

whether they do what
they're supposed to,

if not what is wrong,
and then verbalize it

to non-technical people
who can tell the us

from an album as far as
anything technical goes,

that is what they did.

Right now, when I say,
get Del DAS from an

elbow, I'm not trying
to be derogatory.

Right, right.

They do other things
that I go to the stand.

Sure.

I spent the entirety
of my career sitting

on this board a bit
with the technical and

non-technical people
because they don't

understand each other.

And I translate and

you're rushing background
will lend you to

being very forthright.

And so would say blunt in
your approach to relaying

information, which

is refreshing, that's
more of a personality

than Russian background

really well.

I think a lot of
my Russian friends

have the same
personality traits as

yourself.

I think that says
more about you than

Russians, for sure.

It,

it very well may
be you select your

friends, right.

You know, show
me your friends.

I'll show you
who you are.

Right.

Well, there you go.

That's a spirit.

Um, you also have
a patent out on.

For image sensor,
combining high

D dynamic range.

I did some work with
HDR, high dynamic

range imagers in the
best, but to be fair.

So my patent, in that
case, just combined a

few existing techniques
because we were trying to

develop an image sensor
that would eventually be

applicable for automotive
applications or something

called ADAS or automated
driver assist systems.

And that is a very
different, it's an

imaging application,
but it's also sensing

application because
you're trying to send

the dangerous and you
will need image sensors

that are able to see
both very dark and very

bright, uh, parts of
this in simultaneously.

Right?

So that was an attempt
to do that to the

best of my knowledge.

Only one company is
currently using my

patents because I
came up with it when I

worked at somebody else,
they have the rights.

Gotcha.

Fair enough.

So we were talking
a little bit off

air about how.

Relay your information
through the dark

Lord optics, calm and
as well as YouTube.

And if people were
to check one out or

the over the other,
where would you prefer

to see people going?

Okay, well, this
becomes, this becomes

a little bit of a
complicated question.

YouTube is undoubtedly
a bigger audience, and

I'm also the rumble and
all of those, right?

So I tried to kind of
cross-pollinate the way

the modern political
environment goes.

I am assuming that at
some point, Facebook and

YouTube will get rid of
all the people like me.

They start with a bigger
channels, first budget

monetizing and all that.

Then they'll get to
the small fish like me.

So dark Lord of
optics.com is hosted by

a platform called locals.

And that's sort of
the focal point of

everything that.

'cause, uh, it's a first
amendment friendly thing.

I do talk about politics.

And when I do that
on YouTube, they

basically kill all
my videos, right.

Because they
disagree with my,

uh, political stance.

Unlike the people at
YouTube, I used to live

in the Soviet union.

So my political stance
is extremely ambiguous.

I don't want to clarify,
I don't want to live in

a Soviet union again.

I hear you.

So locals basically has
everything that I do is

converged on, uh, locals.

But if you're trying
to find me, there's

only one dark load of
optics, squid, literally.

So search for dark, lot
of optics and all my

different content pops

up.

How do you come
up with that name?

The dark Lord of objects.

Somebody

called me that actually.

Um, what was the
guy's name west?

I think we were having
some sort of a profound,

uh, argument on the
internet forum on optic.

Right.

And as one does, yeah,
this, this is going

to sound very modest,
but you guys will

have to forgive me.

I don't lose
arguments about

optics very much sure.

For several reasons.

Not because I'm that
good because I don't

get into arguments that
I'm not going to win.

Right, right.

Uh, because I got to
choose my battles.

Uh, Wes felt,

and as argument gets
protracted, my natural

dark sense of humor
and cynicism kind of

float to the surface.

Right.

So fel west felt a little
bit wounded and came up

with this dark Lord of
optics because I think

he made it fellowship,
but he took it with a

good sense of humor.

And I thought it
was hilarious.

And somebody else
started calling me

that I said, oh yeah,
I'll just do that.

So I don't have

to, do you
remember what the

argument was about?

Yeah.

And I can rifle sculps
um, Wes, uh, mark and I

were, are getting mark.

Uh, he, unfortunately
I'm still in touch

with a guy, but he
kind of deleted most

of his online presence.

Uh, loved Nick
and rifle scopes.

I did not like the
low-light before months

of those, because
similar priced at the

time Zeiss conquest was
better and where skim up

with a dark Lord thing.

And, uh, the other guy
says, you go descend into

your a base, you know?

Yeah.

It is absolutely
great place to check

low-light performance
and that's sort of how

Steve rolled from there.

We were all having
an absolute blast

with it, with the.

That's

funny.

So we were also talking
about any affiliations

with any other optics
companies out there,

and you made it very
clear that you aren't

in order for you to be
able to do what you do.

You're not directly
affiliated or sponsored

through any, right.

So I cannot be sponsored
by an optics company

because I have to
remain unbiased.

And the reason why people
listen to what I have

to say in the subject
is that I am unbiased.

I'm quite friendly with
good number of companies.

And I rip them a new
one at one time or the

other, and most of them
will take it like adults

think it's instructive.

Goodness.

As men get better.

Yeah.

From a standpoint
of, uh, monetizing my

presence on the web.

I gave it a lot of time.

So my YouTube channel
is monetized or though

there's almost nothing
there since so many guns.

He use D monetized.

Uh, I do have some
affiliate accounts,

but most of the larger
companies, like if I

provide those into, let's
say brown, your Optech,

I will make some small
sort of a commission,

but then very particular,
I mostly deal with

people who sell a large
variety of brands, right?

They don't care to
commend and neither do I.

The primary revenue
stream for me is

actually a subscription
on my dark Lord of

optics.com website.

If you want to comment,
there is a small payroll

and going forward, I
am planning to rely

more on that than on
anything else, because

that way my loyalty is
only to my audience.

I don't owe anybody else.

Anything.

That's.

So you lived in the
Soviet union up to what?

Age?

15.

I came to United States
in 1991 and finished high

school in California?

No.

Okay.

So most of your
formidable years were

spent over in the
Soviet union union?

Yeah,

the first major world
event I remember was

a bridge near the
general secretary

of the communist
party of the Soviet

union dying in 1981.

Then I was too busy
being an obnoxious kid.

And then I remember
Chernobyl hit in 1986.

And that was sort
of around the start

of the Perestroika.

My formative years
was essentially the

collapse of Soviet union.

Very memorable.

Yeah, I'd say so
there's some definite

lessons to be learned by
watching what happened.

I don't

know.

I don't think we
learned them very well.

Not looking at
what's happening

now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'd have to say.

Yeah, interesting
without delving too

far into the, uh, the
political realm, but

that's another
podcast right

there.

I think so.

Yeah.

You know, the Silvercore
Podcast, I started

this as a way to share
positivity within

the industry and to
highlight people who

have a passion for what
they do and share that

passion with others.

And I have no problem
talking about different

political things
that are going on.

I always try to highlight
it with like, what, what

can we do moving forward?

Or what can we do in
a more positive light?

Cause I don't know
too many problems that

were solved just by
sitting in a basement

and complaining
about them, that,

um, health attitude,
the problem with talking

about politics is it's,
uh, it, uh, soon enough

all other conversations
stop, right?

The only thing I can
say that's short and

fundamental is it
stop trying to make

the world better,
make yourself better?

I like.

I like the whole
problems start within.

When you give up on
making yourself and

people around you
better and start solving

problems, you have
no reach or impact

understanding of, and
that probably translates

to the vast majority
of problems we have.

Now.

That's probably the most
concise I've ever heard.

My fundamental thoughts
on the issue made.

I don't think I could
have said that in such a

short snippet, but that
is that's very true.

The more you want to
change things that are

happening outside, the
more you start applying

your value structure
on to other people and

putting your expectations
as to how it should

be solved without
introspectively looking

at how you can make
things better yourself.

There's that, but
there's a lot, there's

a lot more to it.

Um, we have a drive
to feel good about.

And then, uh, by that
same extension, it's

much easier to feel
good about yourself.

If there is no way to
evaluate whether you did

anything good or not.

And if you're protesting
global warming, poverty,

monk, penguins, and
Antarctica, or something

like that, do you feel
good by protesting, but

there is no actionable
way to measure if you

made the difference.

So you get to
feel good without

producing any results.

The closer to you are
the things you're looking

to change, improve,
whatever, use the word,

the verb that agrees
with you, the more

actionable things are.

And the more likely you
are to be disappointed

with your efforts.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's a good point.

We should be doing
things that we can see,

feel, and touch and be
ready to be disappointed

because it'll make
her a better man.

I like that.

Well, let's talk
a little bit.

Upticks.

Let's talk about w
from a very broad,

general sense.

Cause I know we're going
to delve into this from

a more technical aspect
of things in a future

chat, but what are
some of the more common

misconceptions in optics
that you hear you find?

And that's, that's a
massive open question.

Yeah, let's see.

So there are a few
years ago started

writing two books, one
of the politics, one

on this rifle scopes,
and I've been kind of,

I decided that instead
of publishing them, I'm

going to convert them
to a bunch of essays.

And that's one of
the things that goes

out to my website
bit by bit times just

started doing that.

The biggest
single biggest,

most fundamental.

Problem is that, and
this is driven by rifle,

scope, marketing, really
all by document, whatever

else is that we spent
too much time worrying.

What's inside that thing.

What kind of lens it has,
what kind of coaching

it has are, what kind
of metal it has, what

kind of what, and these
are things that are

easy to talk about,
but it's very hard to

ascertain whether any
of that makes any real

practical difference.

If you really want one
concise thing, I think

of a rifle scope or
binocular as a spotting

scope as a black box,
something is going in,

something's going out
how Ian it gets converted

to our should not matter
to you as long as what

comes out is good enough.

Uh, so think, uh, and
this is, uh, once again,

this, my background is,
uh, making some stuff.

How do you test
a rifle scope?

Take a rifle scope.

You put a camera behind
it, you project some

reasonable image at it.

That's you know exactly
what you're projecting.

You take a camera.

Hopefully the camera
is very high quality

so that it's not
corrupting the image.

And you look at the
image that comes out.

The image that comes out
is what matters, what

the rifle scope does.

There's a bunch of lenses
in there and all that.

How exactly that
image gets massaged

makes no difference.

All of them phrase it,
it makes a difference.

Makes no
difference to you.

The details of what
happens is that

they're intellectually
interesting.

They're interesting.

From a technical
standpoint, I can't

explain most of them
to you in a way that we

will truly understand.

Now, you think you
understand that you

don't, they're not that
difficult, but they

really weird optics is
a very strange science

because you can't really
touch and feel it right.

Mechanical engineers
going to optics.

It takes them a
couple of years to

change their mind.

Because you can use your
intuition does not work

in optics if you are a
mechanical guy, right.

Without some background,
but we all understand

what an image is
because we all, or most

of us, everybody who
uses the rifle scope

has eyes and can see
let's talk about that.

Right?

Sure.

And we all
understand what an

image gets, right?

That's this rifle
scope holds zero.

Is the image pleasing
it, dealing with it

by not colors, is
the image pleasing.

Does it give
me a headache?

You have to think
about it in terms of

output, not in terms of
what's inside the box.

Does that make sense?

It totally makes sense.

Yeah.

So it would be
kind of like.

Getting glasses, right.

Prescription for
one person, I

don't wear glasses.

I put them on and they're
not going to work for me.

So what could be
pleasing to my eyes or

pleasing to somebody
else's eyes could be

two very different

things.

It's rather simple.

Yeah.

There will be
some differences.

Right?

Uh, but you know, nice
rifle scopes will be

nice for nearly everyone.

They are designed for
a broad range of human

eye conditions and the
IPS can adjust for it.

But when you start
trying to figure out

what exact kind of lens
material was used inside,

and I see this all the
time, people on forums

go, readopt something
on shot websites.

Oh yeah.

This rifle scope is
amazing because it uses

this type of glass and
this type of glass or

this type of glass,
absolute bullshit.

You can barely spell
the word glass,

not just the type.

And it makes, and they
only think they know

about it because somebody
told them, oh yeah.

When you use this
glass, it's amazing

ads nonsense.

It's amazing when the
image that comes out

of it as good that's.

If it stays zeroed the
radicle doesn't move

on the recoil and the
image is good enough for

you to see really well
without eye fatigue.

Then it's amazing.

If somebody comes up
and is able to do this

in a rifle scope with
every lens is made out

of cheap plastic and
the image looks good,

you should buy that.

One's going
to be cheaper.

And the images in
the image is good.

Reticles moving.

Do you find that
happening too often?

And most modern
rifles skills.

I know some older ones
that I've worked with.

I see radical moving,
but those bottom

ones seem to be meet.

Yeah, pretty good.

It depends on the price.

The nice scopes are
they're robust, uh, some

inexpensive scopes, not
so much, but then there's

also always a sample
to sample variation.

There's a, there are
quality control issues

and you will find some
stuff that shifts around.

You will also find things
that, uh, break in.

I'll give you
an example of.

Uh, vortex strike
Eagle five to 25 56.

It's about self
harm bucks.

So it's not a cheap
school, but not a

very expensive one
by modern standards.

Um, it's a nice scope
overall, but you know,

whenever you think that
vortex, uh, a lot of

people have accused me
of, uh, uh, getting, uh,

preselected samples from
manufacturers, right.

And tested to be good.

And they are not always,
and also whenever I

recommend the scope,
then I get my hands

on a few more that
who bought through

retail channels and
double-check, but then

you have, so vortex sends
me this strike giggle.

I start doing a tracking
test and I'm adjusting

vertical tracking.

And when I'm two meals
up, the radical moves

left, I go three meals up
and it comes back and the

regional adjustment line.

Right.

Oh, interesting.

And, uh, that's
where it helps.

I know how it's built.

There is a pressure
pad that sits in

the rector tube.

They must've been in the
non-uniformity there.

So I sit in front of
the computer and spent

10 minutes twisting
journals, uh, charity.

And this deviation
goes away, but the

reticle did move.

And if you did not spend
the time figuring out

what it actually does,
and you decided to go

shoot the competition
with it when adjusting

to mills your radical
jump left half a mil.

That's interesting.

So I've never actually,
so I'll do a scope

break-in which for me
really is just me turning

the turrets on the thing,
counting how far it goes

and checking it out.

That's about all I
do when I break in a

scope, I don't know.

Is there much more,
that really goes

into that process?

Yeah.

You'll have to S you
have to look where the

point what's happens
to the point of, uh,

aim and point of impact
when you do this.

Right.

So, okay.

I took that as the
logical step within the,

the, the twisting and
turning up and down.

So I

do this thing.

Uh, that is sort of
the first thing I do

with a lot of scopes,
eh, because it gives

me a good idea of, uh,
uh, if I'm going to

other, if there are any
obvious problems, right?

That's subtle problems,
but are there any

obits problems?

Um, uh, zero it, right.

I get excited and get
some ammo and uncle

always could use some,
uh, bench practice.

Anyway, I do this from
bench approach, shorter

round adjust, one mil
up, shoot another round,

one mil up, shoot another
round until I essentially

run out of paper.

Every one meal, every two
meals I get to the top.

Then I just
done one bill.

And every time I make
one shot, I go up

and down a few times.

So every morning the
region I end up with a

three or five or four,
whatever amount of am

I head shot groups.

If I did my part, and
this is once again,

this is also my
shooting practice Eve.

I did my part.

I should have roughly the
same size group lined up

vertically one minute.

Okay.

What does does, um,
sometimes adjustments

have histories as
meaning adjustment

op is not the same as
adjustment down older

scopes did this a lot.

You adjust, then
you shoot them that

settles a little bit.

It moves, right.

And you will scopes.

Don't do this as much,
but I do run into this.

Uh, I do run into this
occasionally, right?

So it tells me what
happens when you adjust

up, tells me what happens
when you just down.

It tells me if there
any lateral wandering,

and that does
happen, not just with

vortex strike Eagle.

I've seen this with a few
scopes here and there.

Um, it kind of gives
me an idea of what

I'm dealing with.

If, if the scope passes
this with flying colors,

I'm unlikely to run
into mechanical issues.

Right?

So that's sort of
the first thing

that I do because it
gives me a lot of.

Different things any
directly translates

into the way I should.

What I normally should
almost never dial

for when I called
for window elevation.

So work out the elevation
church, quite thoroughly,

the windage store at
NAVAIR don't care.

I check it because other
people want me to, but

the way I shoot other
than zeroing and never

touched the windage dirt.

Interesting.

Not even from making
compensation for a spin

at diff at distance,

no bullet dredges,
the reticle holes.

Okay.

So I prefer, well, okay.

Assuming electrical I'm
using cards, reticle

holds for it, but yes.

Well what, what's
the preferred F and

everyone's got opinions
on this, right there

would they like, as
their preferred, uh,

radical that they're
going to be used.

Some people just
love the full-on

grid or a Christmas
tree, you or some

people want something
that's really fine.

W what do you
like, what do you

typically like to see?

Well, so I'm very
fortunate in a sense

that I occasionally
designed radicals for.

So I get to use the
radicals that I like

because I designed them.

Awesome.

Um, a good example of the
type of radical I like.

And so in every
new design I do is

slightly different.

They all kind of carry
some of the same themes,

but then I look at the
market response, use

it to change something.

A couple of years ago,
I designed a heretical

for a company called
March, uh, scopes.

It's a nice high-end
Japanese company,

the radicals called
F M L T R one.

Okay.

So it's a tree type
reticle, uh, cause a

slightly more prominent
primary aiming point,

you know, kind of
seduction in the center.

And then a lot of
people like I don't

like ultra small dots.

I think they
disappeared a little

bit too easily against
complex backgrounds.

It does have a tree,
but I sized that tree so

that when you're below
10, 11 power essentially

disappears, it looks like
a much simpler reticle.

Interesting.

So I made the tree
fairly thin, so it's

quite unobtrusive.

I like three radicals.

I liked some abbreviated
grid radicals.

Um, I don't like ho so
they could essentially

three radicals are the
Horace radicals, right?

They're basically
a mosquito net

designers were dream
and mostly useless.

Um, there's, I've
done videos on this.

If you want to, that's
a separate conversation.

There is a ton of things
that are wrong with them.

The guy who convinced
the us military to use

them as a world-class
snake oil salesman and,

uh, most chorus designs,
in my opinion, take a

good idea and then extend
it to the point where

it becomes a bad idea.

Interesting.

Want a good grid
type radical

Schmidt and vendors.

G R is a good example.

I did some very
clever thing.

Once again, the
radical detail, radical

discussion as a whole
video, but I basically

like somewhat compact
three, three agreed type

radicals where on lower
magnifications the three

other grade essentially
fade out and you rather

than distraction.

Got it.

And would that be your
biggest, uh, negative

point that you see
about a horse style?

Radical is just that it's
just too distracting.

Uh,

oh no, God, no, that's
just the beginning.

Um, uh, several, uh,
several, if you want

to go there now.

Sure.

I want to hear

so when you design a
reticle, what are you

looking to achieve?

What are trying to get?

What kind of
functionality are

you looking to build?

And the catches you
have to build in all

the functionality that
you need and none of

the functionality that.

And once again, that's
a, I like these simple,

somewhat from the
mental phrases in case

you didn't notice.

Right.

Uh, try to define it's
a fundamental principle

in the short way.

And this is the most
fundamental thing I can

say about radicals in
your long range shooting.

How many times have you
used the radical to hold

30 Millar agent holdover?

I haven't.

So why do so many chorus
radicals, extended grid

all the way down to
the Logan notification

that just looks, it
looks like mosquito net

30, 40 million agenda.

That's a good point.

Probably from a marketing
standpoint, central

market's great.

All them Monday
night quarterbacks

in bold ninjas.

Look at us.

Oh yeah.

I can shoot a testicle
off of, uh, off of a

mosque oxides in Alaska
while I'm an Oregon,

you know, it's does
not need to be there.

And it is district,
you know, Since then

they'll put a normal
rifle, scopes, a virtual

or rifle, scopes have
some sort of distortion

as you start going
away from the center.

And you're kind of like
setting for the edges and

the centers different.

We all dial it in for
the center, right?

Not want to use the
radical holes that

would require different
paradox compensation.

That's a good point.

We want to be aiming
that far away from

the center, right?

Practical terms that
the 50 million radio for

most schools, it varies
from school to school.

And when you move you're
on loan modification

and exit people as big,
when you move your eyes

behind the scope, you
will see all the edges

kind of swim and distort
like almost like a,

um, fishbowl effect.

Right?

Right.

Notice that that
stuff is there.

That effect is not
particularly distracting.

Unless some income
Pope decided to extend

his reticle all the
way to the edges.

And now the lines of the
radical it's supposed

to be straight, all
look like waving crap.

Right.

And you will see
nothing else.

You will just be like.

Right.

Okay.

That is distracting.

Yeah.

When you are taking
a quick glance at

heretical, there has to
be center primary aiming

point, and your eye has
to be drawn to that.

When you look through
a Horus radical Egypt

denied tremor three,
or God forbid, tremor

five, uh, when you
glance at it, where's

the primary aiming point.

What's somewhere
in there.

Right?

Right.

Where when you haven't
slept for 36 hours,

can you pick it
out in one glance?

You can't.

No, it's, it's a little

bit of surgeon.

Okay.

Correct.

So you want and
low magnification.

So when you are
using, and then on

top of it, right.

So if you're shooting far
away and it requires 20

million agent of holdover
or whatever else, okay.

You're probably going
to be on somewhat high

magnification, except
with the, if you're

trying to do 20 million
region with a radical,

you have to dial
back on magnification

because when you
made the Reginald.

Right.

So why is it there?

And if you're trying
to keep the unification

comparatively high,
so you just see the

20 million radiant
holdover point, you're

aiming with the edge
of the field of view.

How are you going to spot
something if you missed?

And I guarantee if you
are doing 20 million

region of holdover, that
is a really good chance.

You cannot miss and
have to correct.

See that in the edge
of your rifle scope.

No.

So you'd have to
drop a notification

even further.

Right?

Right now, everything
is waving distorted, and

you could don't see your
target as well because

you got gaming with the
wrong part of the image,

scope manufacturers
and Ms.

Love you.

Oh, so you brought
up a term, which, uh,

people who've used
rifle scopes will

understand some people
who might be getting

into it might not be.

You talk about
parallax now.

Uh, On the side of
some scopes, you're

going to have a
parallax adjustment.

And some people will call
that they're focusing on.

They say, Hey, I just
bring it into focus.

And some people say,
no, no, no, it's a,

it's a parallax thing.

I've heard some say
you have to gently

move your head back and
forth and watch that

reticle to see where
it's moving in, adjust

that parallax knob until
the radical deviates,

the least amount, which
is difficult without

inducing other movement
on the, um, on the scope.

And some people
say if it's in

focus, you're good.

Uh, what, what are
your thoughts about,

uh, yes.

And all of the above, uh,
depends on what you're

looking to do depending
on how big of a target

you're shooting, uh,
site focus or paradox,

not easy to focus.

Knob rifle scope
has three optical

systems in it.

Objective,
erector and IPS.

Right?

There are two focal
planes front for

co-parents second
focal plane for

most long range.

Precision scopes these
days, uh, in front of

focal plane, clearly.

Uh, so let's say you
have your reticle in the

front focal plane and
it's fixed to the front

of your Eretria tube
and it's fixed in place.

It been scores up and
down when you adjusted

with a digitalization,
but front back it's

fixed in place.

The way optics work, the
objective of the rifle

scope is kind of like
a camera lens, right?

When you're looking at
an object, let's say a

hundred yards away, the
objective creates an

image at a particular
spot behind it.

We want that spot to be
where the reticle is, so

that the image created,
but objective as a super

imposed on the radical.

Okay.

So you adjust your
side, focus, snob

and what it does.

It moves the image
that's generated by the

objective lens, front
and back a little bit

for enough movement.

Okay.

Now you've switched
and you're looking

at something that
is 500 yards away.

And when you look
at something that's

further away.

If you did not adjust
your site focus,

snob or whichever
focusing method, you

have the image more
forward a little bit.

It's no longer
superimposed the reticle.

And now when you
move your head, the

radical superimposed
on the image.

Okay.

So focus in
parallax adjustment

are functionally
the same thing.

So then you go to your
site, focus now and

adjust that very slightly
and it physically moves

location that image
and superimposes on

the superimposes, that
image and the reticle.

Again, you with me 100%.

Excellent.

All of that works
if you just did

the IPS correctly,

right?

Okay.

So the site focus,
essentially it just the

objective lens or the
rifle scope to super

impose the image on the
radicle while the IPS

focus, adjust everything.

That's uh, everything
is behind the radicle

sorter so that your art.

Is looking at the
spot where the

radicalism focus.

Right.

Okay.

Did you have, you have to
set up your IPS correctly

and there is a couple
of methods to do that.

If your IP is set up
correctly, from the

standpoint of the
site focused dirt, the

sharpest you mentioned
was Al will also be the

one that's superimposed
in the radical, you

know, we'll give
you minimal paradox.

I love it.

So when people talk
about a parallax free

scope, there's no such
thing would there be,

or I guess if it's at
a set distance, you

could say everything
at this distance.

Yeah.

So

you can say that,
um, some scopes

will have very high,
uh, depth of field.

Okay.

Right.

The greatest depth
of field of any

conventional rifle scope.

I know all of you as a
Canadian should be proud.

Uh, what the hell
is that thing?

Tangent theater.

I had a couple of them
here just a moment ago.

Good.

Old hands and feta.

Uh, you day like
misplace a $5,000 school.

So here's a tangent data.

Five to 25 by 56 is
cause the greatest depth

of field of them all.

Interestingly, uh,
interestingly, when

the score has very high
depth, the field, it's

actually harder to figure
out where that focus

is perfect, but now the
are was, is not going

to be very large the
way it's, uh, the way

this thing is designed.

Okay.

If you're shooting bench
rest, you need it to be

perfectly dialed out.

If you're shooting
objects of finite size,

let's say metal plates.

That's not what we're
talking about, but

let's say metal plates.

Uh, your error is
likely to be with it.

Okay.

So for example, with all
that, my danger dangerous

that I use, and I use a
lot of different scopes.

So when you see if you
in front of me behind

me, I mean, I'm doing
a comparison right

now on some fancy
50 millimeter scopes

who we grow.

There's a
couple of bucks.

Hey,

uh, that's about 20 grand
on a truck to drop that.

That's okay.

On the one of
them is mine.

Hold on.

There we go.

For the list.

As you can see this,
uh, Ilya just held up

a bar with what was it?

Was there a

seven on there?

Six rifles, scopes,
tangent theater, us

optics, Steiner, Schmidt,
them bander March.

And did all, this is
the religious direction.

The rifle scope.

Yeah.

Zeiss is supposed
to becoming shorter

when you deal
with that much.

Oh

yeah.

Uh, I just sent
one back there.

Yeah, but anyhow, so
to get back to their

original depth of field
conversation with danger

theater scopes, if I'm
shooting further out, I

essentially just, uh, uh,
set the parallax in the

three to 400 yard range.

I never have to
mess with it.

So the paradox is never
perfectly Del dog,

but it's good enough
where I can keep hit

the small things and I
can transition between

targets quite quickly.

One of the strings
let's have tangent

datas and quite a few
like his accomplice.

Good.

And, uh, Minox a few
others, but the agent

is the best at that.

I'm trying to say like
by a measurable amount or

are we just talking, but

I can see it.

I can measure it.

And this Delfield
has other advantages

for shooting in
strange air and stuff.

Um, so stranger, you mean
just like more particles

float in the air?

Uh, when, uh, so I have
more experience shooting

when it's hot and not
super humid because I

live in California now.

I live in New Mexico.

Yeah.

Um, once in the civic
show, I've had a

bunch of fences, 56
millimeter scopes.

I started looking at them
with a PRS buddy of mine.

And so we're looking
at them and they

look good in closer
distances, close to

distant tangent theaters.

It doesn't have the
highest resolution

contrast to call.

They're very good.

Um, then we start looking
further out and the it

starting warming up and
Niraj starts popping

up at 6, 7, 800 yards.

And looking at the target
through that neurotic

tangent, uh, aged out
other scopes, and the

difference became Opus
and that's depth of

field and, and, and,
uh, um, the ability

to rent a color color
is very important.

So just in terms of
how we perceive images,

but that's going to be
pretty subjective to

yes and no.

Uh, how was he?

Color's a little
bit subjective, but

we all see color.

And a color is a huge
component of how we

understand images, right?

Um, if you have an
image that's super

sharp, but the colors
are a little bit blend.

It is super sharp
objective that

can measure it.

But in terms of how
sharp it looks to your

eye, it will frequently
lose look, especially

under difficult lighting
conditions, less sharp

than ultimately lower
resolution image,

where the colors pop
more, right, because

of how we perceive.

So something that's
not well covered in

the industry is that
how we see things is

more about the brain
than the eye, as far

as far as the camera
and go to the eyes, a

very primitive camera.

What is remarkable is
how well our brain makes

sense of those things.

Right.

And we have no idea
how it does it.

We have no means to
replicated within the

machine vision world.

We sort of give up and
trying to understand how

human brain does this.

And we've gone off on a
different tangent trying

to make automated machine
vision cameras better,

but the way we are doing
this as glued different

than the way our brain
does it, no idea how

the brain gets an image.

So remarkable out of such
a primitive camera as

a human, right, right.

Big part.

We know of how the
brain processes, this

is color information.

One of the big reasons
you use your lose, your

visual acuity as the
light drops is that all

of a sudden, you see
colors, a look less and

a rifle scope that has
good enough contrast to

maintain some semblance
of color vision into

lower light levels will
look markedly better

than objective is
sharper imaging optic

that does not pertain
the view ability to see

color and to as late of
a, as late of a light,

uh, It's a little bit
light environment.

Right.

Okay.

Makes sense.

It totally a
hundred percent.

Absolutely.

Excellent.

So,

uh, so when you talk
about the IPS being set

up and, and the parallax
being dependent on the

IPS being properly set
up and we're talking, I

guess we're adjusting the
diopter on your scope.

There's a few
ways to do it.

How often do you find
people are incorrectly

adjusting that diopter?

Oh, how much of your
audience do want to lose?

Maybe we saved that
for the, um, uh, for

the next podcast.

We get a little
bit more technical.

No, nine out of 10.

Really actually did
a couple of videos

on YouTube on how to
focus, how to focus

rifles, go by pieces.

And it's different
for front vocal

pen versus second
focal plane scopes.

And it's different
for conventional

rifle, scopes versus
low power variables.

It's not markedly
different, but you're

trying to achieve a
slightly different

effect and there are
different priorities,

but that is a fairly
lengthy conversation.

Well, tell you what,
if you want to get

those links over to me,
I'll put them in the

description so people
can just go straight over

to your YouTube page.

Uh,

I will, uh, dig them up.

I need to redo
those videos.

They're fairly old, but
it's just me sketching

things in front of the
whiteboard, but they

should be legible enough.

Well, so light gathering.

So there's, there's
a lot of people that

talk about the whole
light gathering myth.

When I asked, is this
something we got what?

A maximum of eight
millimeters for the

human eye to be able
to actually accept.

You told me about this.

Okay.

So in Mong, the very
vast field of marketable

bullshit out in the
optics industry,

that's one of them.

Uh, everybody goes, all
right, I can only dilate

to seven millimeters.

And because of that, uh,
exit pupil, that's more

than seven millimeters.

Doesn't do
anything for you.

Ass nonsense.

First of all, um, some
people I can dilate the

12 millimeters they're
young and have large eyes

sunken or Deloitte, much.

As you get older,
your ideal elation

ability for your eye
to dilate goes down.

That's why you lose the
ability to see at night,

uh, your ability to have,
uh, your eye of your eye.

People to contract
also goes down.

That's why you can
see things up close.

I don't know
how old you are.

Travis.

44 as of

the same age, 45.

So you're beginning
to see some of those

wonderful effects.

Um, I started a couple of
years ago, almost cried

my eyes, but, um, uh, we
don't know, basically we

don't know, you can kind
of measure how far your

IPO dilates, but what
kind of light conditions

and dilates onto how
dark it needs to get.

And then your eyes
are wonderfully dark

adapted, and you look
at your rifle scope.

There's an image,
looks a little

brighter and there's
something bright in it.

That's far away and
immediately, uh,

IP will contracts.

Again, it changes all
the time, but the way

your eye works, it
doesn't elect to be

fixed in one spot.

So if you have a large
editor for your eye,

if it's forced to be
fixed in one spot, it

gets tired really fast.

It likes to move around.

And as it moves around
that, essentially

think of it as almost
like snaps images

and construction.

That's one of the
things that helps.

Uh, brain to see much
better, so larger

exit people can be
helpful, but in the

rifle scope, exit
pupil is a large exit.

People means lower
magnification

magnification also
helps you see, right?

So there is a balance
and it's going to

be different for
different situations in

different environments.

Hmm.

Okay.

Uh, light gathering by
itself as an godawful

term, uh, because
your rifle scope does

not go start walking
out of the metals

and gathering light.

Uh, there is an objective
lens day immature and

everything that falls
on that objective lens

from whatever field of
view your are dealing

with, which is the
magnification, uh, enters

into the rifle scope.

Some of it last, you
have the reflection

of different surfaces,
sketching, a little

bit of absorption
and stuff like that.

And most of it makes
it out of that.

Okay, so it doesn't
gather anything, but

you do have a larger
collecting aperture than

your unaided art, right?

So this is, I have this
danger data here, 56

per meter objective.

Right.

If you have it sitting,
let's say on, I don't

know, uh, for, for the
ease, let's say I've got

it sitting on 23 power.

Right?

So that means I
have two millimeter

exit pupil, right?

Yeah.

So all of the light
that got into that rifle

scope, uh, got, uh,
barring some transmission

losses through the,
through the scope gods

to your eye, but here's
the catch, right?

So your objective lens
diameter for most of

the magnification is
stays the same, but on

lower magnifications,
there is more light.

It's collecting it
from a wider angle.

You feel the
views, right?

Or lower modifications.

Right.

So it will look a little
bit brighter, but no

matter how you slice
it, it's going to give

you more light and
more information than

your, I need your day.

So if we were to,
well let's, how

would the iBox?

So I remember there
was a handhold.

I was using one time
and had a really large

iBox on there, which I
thought was desirable.

I liked that it was easy
to get clear glass from

a, from a large distance.

Is there a drawback
to having a large iBox

other than perhaps
a cost of making

these sort of things?

Yeah.

Every time somebody says
I box, I imagined this

wooden box full of guys.

I hate that term, but I
don't have a better one.

I, uh, I often say I
really flexibility, but

I think I'm giving up
and beginning to use

iBox I read the box.

Um, there is a certain
re uh, range of, uh,

positions for your eye
that the IP is correct.

And it's not
shaped like a box,

right.

It's more
clinical, right.

It's more like an
ellipsoid action.

Okay.

Um, but um,

nice designed IPS
will give you better.

iBox right.

So there are
trade-offs right.

Everything in optics
is a compromise.

For example, you
mentioned the scope as

Eco's eco zero compromise
optics, really nice,

very, very high in
the scopes that have

done a very good job
marketing themselves.

And the company has
done a very good job

marketing, but the
scopes market themselves,

why they are designed.

So they're extremely
forgiving to get behind.

And all of the
user controls are

really well done.

Small calibrated, no
sharp edges, just a

great user experience.

Objective, if you
looked at the images,

very, very good, but
let's say attention

to is obstacles.

In my opinion.

So the guys I'm friendly
with the guys at Z comp.

Every time I say that,
I think they're about

to have an aneurysm,
but so far nobody died.

They're good people.

I like them.

They don't like it
when I say that, but

to their great credit,
they still talk to me.

Right.

It just speaks
well of them.

There are companies who
no longer do, uh, to get

that super forgiving IPS,
uh, uh, I box, they ended

up giving up a little
bit of field of view.

The image looked
huge because of how

the IP stands field.

The view is, is a
bad mid-pack for

fancy scopes, for
example, right?

That's one of
the compromises.

You do not have to make
that compromise too much.

I just started looking
at the latest vortex

razor, a gen three,
six to 36 by 56.

It has extremely
forgiving iBox Adams

has rather than
wide field of view.

So they changed something
in design, right?

Every time they come
up with a new design,

the compromise gets
less restrictive.

Um, really, really
nice scope by the way,

uh, amazingly nice.

Give her what it costs.

Um, but my significantly
better than I expected,

I'm friends with a
bunch of people at

vortex that told me it's
going to be very nice.

I told them they're
full of shit.

I'm looking at it.

Those Besters were right.

It is a unusually nice
for what it costs.

They wouldn't be
able to keep them in

stock for a couple
of years, at least.

But then, but I digress.

So that's the, there
are compromises, uh,

to the iBox their
regional rifle scope.

That was the most
forgiving of my position.

Wasn't did the hand salt,
uh, one of my favorite

designs overall, it's
still the three to

12 by 56 cents sold.

I thought it was
a wonderful scope.

Yeah.

Um, but, um, it's
also easier to do

when you have lower
magnification larger.

That's a good point, add
lower erector ratios,

menu, the ratio between a
high, low magnification.

So all of those help,
but a lot of it is

just good design

and technologies
move forward.

Right?

So I mean, w what
I was going to just

mention with the
same Hensoldt right.

The saw the cancel
doesn't care about

civil and market, and
it's, they develop a

scope for the military.

And while there, then
they'll sell it to

civilians the latest
and greatest, not that

new anymore is a three
and a half to 26 by 56.

Right.

And, uh, when it first
came out, it was $7,000

and everybody was
running around saying

how wonderful it is.

Uh, you know, that's,
that's either people

who haven't seen it
to people who justify.

Shelling out seven
grand, right?

It was built for a
particular purpose.

They had to make
it very short.

Um, the elevation,
it has to have a lot

of adjustment image.

Quality is not that great
compared to the speaking.

It's not as easy to
get behind as the

older simpler consults.

And the church is
unadulterated crap

because the military
forced them to stick with

18 minute radiant and
the comparative small

dam or the tourists.

So the clicks are
not that distinct.

It's, well-built,
it's robust.

It's good for
the constraints,

the food on it.

But if you are not
operating with the same

constraints, the military
wants you to very short.

So they put a clip on
in front of it and all

that sort of stuff.

The German military,
if you're not operating

with those constraints,
you just wasted seven

grand and you'll go
buy something else

for less money.

Right.

Right.

But here's a confirmation
bias for you.

If you, people who bought
them, they went around

saying how wonderful,
how amazing this thing.

Because if you just spent
seven grand, what else

are you going to say?

You're

not going to turn around
and say this piece of

garbage, unless you
got lots of money,

not a piece of garbage.

No.

It's w if you're
operating within the

constraints that were
in that large tender,

that it was designed
for, it is a very

impressive effort.

It's not that great of a
scope for the rest of us.

Well, with constant
advancements in

optics and scopes, I
mean, everyone looks

like they're a lot
of it's marketing

from my perspective.

And from talking to you
now, uh, integrating

electronics within
the scope, whether

that'd be illuminated
reticles or like, uh,

uh, laser rangefinders
or, uh, levels digital

levels to tell you
if your level or not.

Is there anything that
is being currently

marketed that you think
is like, what a gimmick?

And is there anything
that's kind of really

getting you excited
that, uh, the optics

world is, is moving to.

Uh, the other things
that are interesting

and within those that
get mix, um, I've

been looking a lot at
thermals and clip-ons

and stuff like that.

That's sort of my field
of expertise, right?

So I've spent a lot
more time with thermal

imagers than everything.

Anything else?

Some of them are
still orbiting the

earth and looking at
your license plate.

Uh,

a lot of, uh, gimme
craze in the marketing.

I have to say a lot of
the gimme Curie is in,

when you start going
into electronics, you

have this tendency
to put everything and

the kitchen sink into
the wifi ser the 28

different versions of
Bluetooth plea porn

from your cell phone
as you're looking for

the school, but I don't
know what else to do.

Right.

All that crap just drains
the battery really.

Uh, but a lot of it is
useful innovation and the

market will eventually
kind of filter through

all the nonsense.

I think I eliminated
radicals that there

stayed the most exciting
thing for me is the

active, radical stuff.

That's going to make
a huge difference.

Uh, vortex, just,
I think one or $2.8

billion contract for the
next, uh, NGS w rifle

scope, uh, look that up.

Uh, it's a rifle scope
with integrated laser

range finder, a normal
radicle and an active

projected radicle.

So that I think is all
the information that's

publicly available.

So I can say more all
the select obstacle

integration makes a
ton of sense when you

can overlay some sort
of projected reticle

features that reflect
the ballistic solution.

When you can combine a
normal fixed, radical to

use normal conventional
shooting with a active,

actively controlled
projectors radical that's

when you have something
special, because then

everything else, all
your Clevelands, all

of those sorts, other
things can easily,

uh, fetal on there.

Right.

Right now, for example,
I'll give you an example.

You have, let's say
you're hog hunting

at night, right?

You have your thermal
clip on, in front

of the rifle scope.

You can only look
through the clip-on.

If you have your laser
range finder built

into the rifle scope.

Normally like, actually,
like a lot of them are

now no longer works
because it doesn't see

through the clip-on.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

So while this new
solution has an offset

is a range finder that
can see around the

clip on whatever else.

And it could
project a ballistic

solution radical.

What if you extended it?

Uh, what if you
extended it further,

you could, uh, use the
next generation of this

actual radical technology
to project and.

And, or just overlay
an image on there.

Now, your Cleveland
doesn't have to

be in front of
the rifle school.

Couldn't be on the
side of the hand

card, uh, more cited.

So that will point
you in the same

direction and you'll
use a normal scope.

And at some point,
whether you're kind

of on a hand guard,
you press a button

and you just got your
thermal image overlaid.

Very cool.

Uh, I familiar with
the Shiner a CQT,

uh, I, I, I've not
used one note, but

I've, I'm somewhat

familiar.

So I saw I've played
with it for quite a

long time, but then I
find the, remember that

I have it and asked
me to send it back.

I'm a little
sore about that.

Uh, it's basically a
combination of a normal

reflects a site with
a projected thermal.

When you look a
use the thermal

optic, uh, you lose
situational awareness

because the image
looks very different.

And you're looking
through this thing.

CQT souls, the
situational

awareness problem.

If you're going to be
doing, using a fused

optic for self-defense
purposes, It's

expensive, 10 grad,
that's expensive,

but it's basically
reflex site that also

gives you thermal.

You can't hide from this
stupid thing and you

have not lost any of your
situational awareness.

You can use a
magnifier with it.

You can use a flashlight
will work fine, you

see it all, and you
still have a little

interesting it's, uh,
you know, a really,

really impressive effort.

You know, it's going
to come down on prices.

They sure make more
of them and all that.

So these are the kinds
of things that excite me

that I find interesting.

And most of them are in
a fusion of a traditional

optics with electronics.

Um, so if you were based
on the current market and

you're telling somebody
entry-level, let's

say, and I don't know,
price range, K keep it.

What would you consider
a good, rather than

constraining you by
the amount of money

that somebody is
going to be sending.

Uh, what would you
recommend somebody

be considering
when purchasing

their first optic?

And we'll break it
into, let's say for a

hunting optic and maybe
something that's going

to be used for maybe
PRS 10 style shooting.

Uh, so two different
categories.

So conventional
big game hunting,

right?

Yes.

Are they ever going to
do PRS or other things?

Is it the same person?

Is it just the guy
who's going to take

out his rifle and go
try to, uh, shoot a

deer twice a year.

Okay.

Well, originally I
was thinking like,

you know, just the
guy shooting, just a

hunting and the separate
one, but you know, you

raise a good point.

A lot of people will
want an all-in-one

thing that they can do
their target shooting

and their hunting with.

Uh, that's actually not
where I was getting, um,

normal, uh, shooting at
point blank distance.

Well, you don't have
to do hold overs

and stuff like that.

Most conventional context
scopes will work fine,

but if this is a guy who
will spend most of his

time shooting PRS through
the year, then we'll

go hunt in November.

I would actually
recommend some sort of

front focal plane object
in both cases so that

he, because he will not
resist the temptation

to ask me how I know,
uh, will not resist the

temptation to use his
country rifles, to shoot

at ups in distances.

Occasionally it
happens, right?

So the single choice
for all of the above

is the vortex razor HD
LHD four and a half to

22 by 50 it's a front
focal plane scope.

It's under 22 ounces.

And I have a rifle
called the fix that

I use for hunting and
precision and everything.

Uh, and the scope can
do all of that, right?

Because it's
fairly lightweight.

Most precision
oriented scopes are

our habit, but that's
an example of what's.

What's called
the crossover.

Uh, a rifle scope
has been around

for a long time.

I don't think it's
easily available

in Canada, though.

You may want to
consider moving.

Uh, it's an as WFA
three to nine by 42,

it's a front vocal pen
scope made in Japan.

Um, simple, robust, uh,
really, really, well-made

not super heavy, simple
like meal scale radical.

You can use the scope
to shoot far away

or just use it as a
regular hunting scope.

And it has a very good
reputation for being

robust about 600 bucks.

That's a good
price point.

Uh, it doesn't do
anything exotic.

It doesn't have
elimination radical.

It doesn't, uh,
shine your shoes.

Doesn't tie
your shoelaces.

It's a, but it's a
simple and robust thing.

If you're budget for
hunting scope, basically

don't go super exotic.

They've worked x-ray's
edge deal HD that I

was talking about as
in the $1,500 range.

Now, if I were just
setting up a basic.

Hunting a rifle.

There are two options
select the most,

although that's not
short of two options.

One is that as WFA 3, 2 9
scope, just put it on and

use that also to shoot
far away, dial you hold

where the article, if you
want a more traditional

second focal plane scope
with some learning long

range capability, vortex.

HDL is the second focal
plane scopes are under

a thousand dollars in
the U S three to 15 by

42 through the 15 by 50.

And they are also
reasonably lightweight,

but nice Leopold VX five
is in that same, uh, in

that same conversation,
uh, tracked toric

three to 15 by 42.

You're looking for
the second or front

focal plane scope,
but about three or

four on the low end.

That's not too heavy.

Right.

And if I had to list
all of them, if I

tried to list all of
them here, you will

have enough material
for eight podcasts.

There's a lot of them.

Okay.

Uh, You pick one
from the company that

has good customer
support and has good

enough field of view.

And that has heretical
that's visible

enough on low power.

You know, I've, I've
used a loophole my

entire life, uh,
like their scopes.

And, but from the
customer support

standpoint, I got to
say, vortex has been

just phenomenal in the
way that, I mean, you

could be on Instagram
and message them, and

they'll walk you through
cycling your rifle when

you're, uh, on the range
via messenger system,

big players right
now do have good

customer support.

And a lot of it was
driven by the pressure

created by waters.

Waters has had that
amazing customer support,

arguably the longest.

So they're better at it,
but it's generally good

customer support, right?

Uh, across the
board, there are some

manufacturers still that
insist on not doing this

very well and they'll
learn their lesson.

So have you ever
come out and had

just blanket warnings
for certain types

of optics, stay away

all the Amazon brands
fee, Archie monster

from all that crap
just don't do it.

Yeah.

I think of it this way.

If they're selling a
skull for 200 bucks and

it has every feature
known to man, if it sells

for two current box, that
means the retailer makes,

I don't know, 50, 60
bucks on it distributor,

another 50 bucks, then
the manufacturer sold

it to somebody else.

So basically it costs
25 bucks to make.

It has 16 optical
elements, machined,

aluminum jurors,
all sorts of stuff.

And it cost 25
bucks to make you

going to trust that.

Yeah, no, here's
the catch.

Every once in a while
somebody will find

a good one, right?

Then he'll hit every
forum saying that yay,

my $25 or whatever it is.

If you have any
Russian audience,

they will appreciate
what I just said.

Uh, Is just as amazing
as the $5,000 Schmidt

and abandon you overpaid
by $4,900, right?

It's you just got to
have a good one and

it will fall apart in
you eventually, but

since you will likely
never use it, they'll

sit in the safe to be
pulled out and shown to

unsuspecting victims.

Occasionally it will
never fail on you because

you're never going to
do anything with it.

If you use it full buy,
there are cheap, simple

sculpts that have been
made for a long time.

Right?

If you are in a budget,
go buy burst fulfilled

$250 made in the
Philippines they've been

making forever and a
day it's cheap to make

because the simple scope
it is robust, right?

For the mentally.

There is these brands
that are really crappy,

have been weeded out
from most regular

competitive landscape.

They go through eBay,
Amazon, basically,

they're trying to get
to people who have not

been around, got a world,
a long enough goodbye.

But if you stick with
reputable brands or some

of the smaller companies
that were started by

people from reputable
brands, athletic will

not as that small of a
company anymore, good

company case came out.

Guys came out of Bush,
not started their own.

Do really well attract,
attract optics, small

company out of New York.

Two guys from Nikon
came out, started their

own brand and amazing
customer support.

Good guys, small company
really take care of

their customers, uh, as
WFA does very good job,

but you know, we talked
about war techs and

loophole, uh, SIG changes
stuff very quickly.

Sometimes I don't
know what to make

heads or tails of.

Okay.

I'm not impressed
with budgets.

I scopes higher
end stuff is good.

It seems to be good
budget stuff from Zeiss

has so much variation
that I don't know what

to make out of it.

Uh, Bush and other
companies that are

mystifying to me, that
changing product quite

so rapidly that for
a guy like me, who

makes her commendations
it's totally useless.

I can just look
at the scope.

States could not actually
use these things and

spend a lot of time.

Right.

If you're changing your
product lines every

year, I can't recommend
your products because I

don't have enough time.

Right.

By the time I'm done
evaluating it, you

just discontinue at it.

Okay, great.

That's helpful.

Uh, so I look at stuff
that's been a, that's

been out in Maine for a
little while where I've

been able to, and if
I recommend something,

then I'll go and track.

How does for people
who bought it from

American foundation.

So I ended up with
reasonably good feel of

how the product performs.

So you will not find
the recommendations

on my websites, uh,
of something that just

gets rotated every
year, because I can't

in good faith, evaluate
the performance.

There's a type
factor too.

Yeah, it makes sense.

So look for things,
either from very

reputable companies,
all look for things

that have been made
for a little while.

Well, on that note,
is there anything

else that we should be
touching on before we

start looking at rap?

We haven't talked at all
about observation optics.

We, didn't not one bet

by not killers and
a spotting scopes.

If you're a hunter
or precision shooter,

you should have a, by
not a hundred percent.

If you are primarily a
shooter, you should be

considering a binocular
with a built-in laser

range finder or a
radicle, or both

mobile barely exists.

They used to
be much worse.

Now they're actually
getting pretty decent.

Okay.

To be fair.

I still hunt with a
conventional binocular

using vortex razor, Ugg
10 by 50 and a separate,

uh, like a rangefinder
. Uh, but I'm carefully

investigating all the
binomials with built in

laser rangefinders and
they get to increasing

the better soon enough
there isn't going to be.

Penalty or not
optics aware.

I can just
switch to that.

They're already laser
range finder binoculars.

They do not have enough
Pendleton optics, but

they're very expensive.

Like the, like, uh,
three, two hundred.com

$3,000, like a
sort of size, but

not goes with the
integrated laser range.

Finders are amazing.

I might still pick one
up, but for now I'm okay

with the separate ones,

but over the
SIG, the kilos

with this.

So I actually use the
kilo range rangefinder

for quite awhile at the
latest, a skill of 10

K uh LRF by not like
I haven't seen yet.

Yeah.

So

I've been impressed
with their laser range

finder capabilities,
I think like has

got better glass.

Yeah, the LRF,
uh, on seeks is

very good though.

The lack of has very,
very natural Ahrefs.

I mean, I just
switched from a sick

to like a dedicated
laser range finder.

Um, I can compromise
in the binocular

on this so much.

And as far as the laser
range finder works.

So it kind of depends
on what you're doing

right for hunting.

Do you really need to
laser rate to laser

that pronghorn at 8,000
yards now for longer in

shooting, sometimes you
want to be able to laser

them into a ballistic
solution fairly far out.

Right?

So from hunting for
hunting standpoint, I, I

am not really willing to
compromise on the quality

of the binocular doesn't.

I'm going to spend a
lot of more time staring

through binocular
than lasing stuff.

Okay.

And if the animal is
2000 yards away, I'm

not shooting it at
that distance anyway.

Right.

And better modern laser
range finders will

raise, will laser a large
object at a distance.

I know roughly where
that animal is.

I don't have to laser
the actual animal just to

being, uh, further than
I can lays is already

a piece of information.

Good.

So with the laser,
I try and you can

buy an ocular.

There's up to a
certain point.

I'm not willing to
sacrifice an obstacle

course for comp for
precision PRS use

and stuff like that.

Uh, get the high
magnification, get a

high-quality 15, 18
power binocular, because

you'll be staring
through this thing a

lot and looking through
things with two eyes

as much less fatiguing
than with one eye.

And everybody goes,
oh, it's not that bad.

My eye will just rest.

No, it takes a long
time until you sleep.

Your eye is not
fully rested.

If you're going to be
glassing for a while

and then shooting,
you want to cut

down a knife at you.

So I, I always will glass
with my, um, my left

eye because I'm shooting
predominantly right.

Eye dominant.

I do

bless with a
spotting scope.

Yes.

Yeah.

Glass with binoculars.

So I'll, I'll do both by
nose and spotting scope,

but you'd say doing
both eyes to restrain on

both is better, is it?

Yeah.

So the, if you're
only looking through

the spotting scope,
are you all right?

I still straining
less than the last

it's still straining.

Okay.

Because remember it's the
brain that's interpreting

the images, right.

Okay.

Good point.

Uh, my, what elk
hunting in New Mexico.

We never needed
a spotting scope.

Once we'll use 10 to
12 power binoculars,

sheep hunting.

We only needed a spotting
scope to judge, uh,

the horns for finding
sheep and et cetera.

If I wasn't going for the
biggest stuff, I wouldn't

need a spotting scope.

Right.

But fifth generation
power binoculars that

a couple of people
had ended up being

extremely useful.

Okay.

Um, by.

Bye high-power by an,
on a tripod is quite

a remarkable tool.

You you'll be amazed in
how far you can see with

what you don't think
as much manifestation.

Um, if you see powered
by an ocular will

generally over any
length of time will

give you a better image
than comparable quality

at 2223 power spotter.

Interesting

last week for everyone
with this trade-off

this, uh, is a little bit
different for everyone,

but that's the ballpark.

I did some tests a
little while back,

uh, on, uh, 20 power
by not killers versus

15 power binoculars
versus a spotting scope.

Uh, the 20 power
binoculars had 56

millimeter objectives.

So there's the pupils
got a little bit too

small for me glassing
off of the tripod,

15 to 18 powers where
the sweet spot was.

Okay.

I could see really
far away with not

that much effort.

You're going to go
through the glass

for a long time.

Interesting.

Let's weaken the pack,
which is nice too.

Now if you are
Traficante, you

really need to look
at antlers in animal

ease indeed far away.

The spotting scope might
not be a bad thing,

but, um, I'm probably
a less experienced

hunter than you are.

So use your best
judgment, but if I'm

dry or riding around
in a four by four and

ATV or something like
that, I'll, I'll happily

have a spotter in it,
but I'm not going to

hike with it up here.

yeah, she punting I'll
bring the spotting scope

for just making sure
you're making that legal

shot, but you're right.

The majority of the
work is done with

your, your by knows.

And it's another
thing, if you think

it might be taking a
longer shot, right?

If there's a lightweight
scope that gives you

a mobile notification
and it's a very high

quality scope, is that
a spotter right here is.

Uh, that's a March
five to 42 by 56.

Really amazing obstacle
quality look heavier

than I want on the sheep
rifle, but it's, uh,

it takes less weight
to put this on a nice

long range rifle than to
carry an extra spotter.

That's a good point.

It goes up to 40 power.

Yeah, that's a
good consideration.

Right?

So there is more
than one way to skin.

A cat, um, spotting
scopes do have their

place, but for me,
that place is not

in my backpack.

I did not get
fat by doing

unnecessary exercise.

Right.

So you're usually
using your spotting

scope, the range

on the range
all the time.

Yeah.

Um, but when I'm shooting
a yards and stuff like

that, when I'm doing
precision stuff, like.

And not magnification
the rifle scope.

So I'll use a spotting
scope of him setting

up behind the shooter.

If I'm shooting
with somebody, I

set up behind them.

When I look at the
trace, that kind of

stuff, I'm not going to
set up my rifle behind

somebody shooting.

It could be, I mean,
I'm cocky with it, but

the guy in front of my

rifle might be,
might not be.

What are your
thoughts on those

core spotting scopes?

Um, the balance
again, I'm a shooter,

not, not a birder.

I will not buy a spotting
scope without a radicle.

Okay.

If I am spotting
for somebody, I need

the radical to call
out corrections.

If I'm trying to find
something, I can use

the radical for quick
range estimation.

Since I'm not trying to
distinguish a, kolibri

eating a mosquito,
uh, three miles out,

the radical does
not get in my way.

Colwell doesn't
like guns.

So they refuse to put the
radical in their raffles,

in their spotting scopes.

Yeah,

unfortunately, well, And
so what, what radical

spotting scope, uh, are
you currently using?

I use an Athlon, uh, S
uh, UHD Athlone Kronos.

Uh, they have a, kind
of a field spotter

with the radical.

I helped them
conceptualize

those radicals.

So they work well for me.

Very nice.

If I could afford it,
I'd be using a consult

it's even expensive.

Uh, there's another
spot or coming out

to the market soon.

They haven't
announced it yet.

Which if all goes
well, should work kind

of like the canceled
for less money.

I might pick that one up.

Okay.

Um, so it's going
to be interesting.

Uh, vortex razor has
a radical IPS for the

85 millimeter spot.

It's actually quite nice.

Uh, for quite a
while I used the.

Um, Swarovski S T R
spotting scope with

a projected, uh,
eliminated radical.

That was very, very nice.

Let's just sold it
in used Hensoldt

for a while.

I think Hansel had
better that the field

a little bit better.

Okay.

Both are very nice
expensive though, right?

Yeah.

In practical terms,
the one I use the most

is the Athlone era's
a UHG and I have a, I

think it's a 22 power
IPS for the radical,

and that's basically
enough for my purposes.

I don't really need
more than that.

And it's small and
light and I could move

it around easily and we
find one to more of a

field support or take
something into the field,

actually use this guy.

This is also.

This is a Kronos,
it's a seven to 42

magnification, 50,
60 minute Metro

objective module.

It's not the most amazing
school, but it is quite

good, but because it goes
down to seven power, I

can use it as a handheld
monocular wouldn't

I need to, right.

So I actually use
this quite a lot.

That's good enough
for my purposes.

Well, I think we've,
uh, we've kinda

covered the broad
gamut about you, your

background, about dark
load of Octa XR, calm.

Uh, it gives people some
food for thought when

thinking about a rifle,
scopes and binoculars

and spotting scopes.

Um, I think, uh, from a,
a more technical in-depth

sort of standpoint, I
would love to, to, uh,

do a deep dive into
some of the optics and,

uh, how they work and
how people should be

setting them up properly.

But I think that's
something probably safe

for, uh, for a future.

Food for thought,
go shoot.

Just shoot.

If you don't shoot,
you do not know

what you need.

Shoot in different
lighting conditions,

shoot from different
shooting positions.

Get off the bench,
shoot with the rear of

the rifle on support.

It will change how you
look at rifle scopes.

Yeah, it will put
sitting, standing

kneeling fraud,
supported rear supported,

learn to shoot with a
sling undershoot prod

with a sling, learn
to shoot kneeling

with a sling that
supports you slightly.

If you're basing your
rifle scope decision

based on, uh, if you're
basing a rifle, scope

decisions, primarily on
shooting from the bench

at a hundred yards,
you're doing a troll.

Yeah, there's a hell
of a lot more to it

than just that the

choice over a rifle
scope is primarily driven

by the application.

Not by the gun.

You have it sitting on.

Like I keep on
hearing this nonsense

thousand dollars.

God need a thousand
dollars scope.

No bullshit.

The scope has to be
matched to the targets.

You're shooting.

How far, where you're
shooting them with

lighting conditions,
you're shooting them

with and the requirements
for the iBox meaning

shooting positions.

I have not said anything
about what rifle it's on.

I've had $5,000
rifles rifle scopes

on $500 rifles.

They were quick if
you only shoot off the

bat, you can put the
$500 scope in a $5,000

rifle it'll work.

Great.

Okay.

It's not about the rifle.

It's about what
you do with it.

That's how you
choose a scope.

Thank you very much for
being on that social core

podcast relief really
enjoyed our conversation

and learned a lot.

Oh, excellent.

Nice conversation.

I reckon we should
do this again.