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Listen in as groundbreaking leaders discuss what they have learned. Discover the books, podcasts, presentations, courses, research, articles and lessons that shaped their journey. Hosted by: Kevin Horek, Gregg Oldring, & Jon Larson.
Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the show.
Today we have Jeff Bennett.
He's a scientist, educator,
author, and speaker.
Jeff, great to chat with you again.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett:
Great to talk to you also.
Kevin Horek: Yeah.
I'm excited to have you back on the show.
I think what you're doing is actually
really innovative, but maybe before
we get into all that, let's get to
know you a little bit better and
start off with where you grew up.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Well, I
grew up mostly in San Diego.
Um, nice.
Had bounced around a bit till I was about
seven years old, but then landed there.
Kevin Horek: Okay, so
you went to university.
What did you take and why?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Uh, so I went to,
uh, uc, San Diego for my undergraduate,
and I majored there in biophysics, um,
because I really loved the physics.
Um, I loved the biology also, and
uh, but I also loved teaching.
I was working in elementary
school while I was an undergrad.
Okay.
And based on that, right around the
time I was graduating, Carl Sagan's
Cosmos came out and I saw that and I
thought if I wanna be in teaching and
education, I should, should switch
from biophysics to astrophysics.
So I did.
And I went to the University of Colorado
to get my PhD and I've been living
here in Boulder pretty much ever since.
Interesting.
Kevin Horek: So what got you
interested in physics at such an early
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: age?
Well, I'd have to say I'm, I'm
a child of Apollo, I think.
Okay.
Since I, I was about 10 years
old when people landed on
the moon for the first time.
And, uh, all the buildup to that with
the space program and that happening
just really got me excited about space.
And space I think kind of naturally
leads you into, uh, science and physics.
Sure.
No, that makes a lot of
Kevin Horek: sense.
So walk us through your career,
maybe some highlights along the
way up into what you're doing
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: today.
Well, it bounces around in some, some
sort of unusual ways, but I, I went
to grad school for astrophysics at
Colorado and one of the things I did
while there was a big educational
project, um, building a scale model,
a solar system on campus, um, which we
now have a similar model in Washington,
DC and many other cities around.
And, uh, that got me to the attention
of the university as someone
who was focused on education.
And so right as I finished my PhD, they
were starting a new math curriculum and
they hired me to create this new math
program called Quantitative Reasoning.
. And so I did that for a couple years
and since it was a new program, I
had to write all my own materials.
And that actually led
to my first textbook.
So my first, uh, college textbook
was actually a math textbook.
Um, and we just had the
eighth edition come out.
Uh oh, congrats.
And that's huge.
Yeah, thanks.
And, uh, they, uh, then I got a chance
to go work at NASA headquarters.
Um, in one of these positions they
call a visiting senior scientist.
I was brought into focus on education
in the astrophysics division.
So I went there and spent a couple years
doing that, working on Humble Space
Telescope and other missions that are
run by the astrophysics program there.
And my job was really to try to
bri bridge the gap between the
research and education communities.
Uh, so I did that and then I went
back to Boulder and kept teaching
and kept working on my textbooks.
I also got my astronomy textbook
started around that time.
And, uh, Kept teaching until the early
two thousands, and by that time the
writing was getting so busy that oddly
enough, even though my main work is
writing college textbooks, I'm not
teaching the courses myself anymore,
although I have co-authors who do.
And so I have my college
textbooks in astronomy, math,
uh, astrobiology and statistics.
And then I, when I have free
time, I write kids books or
books for the public for fun.
Okay,
Kevin Horek: interesting.
So do you get to apply any of the
quantitative reasoning in kind of your
work and, and life today and, and maybe
even some of that into those kids books or
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: not, or textbooks.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so my textbooks, the, the commonality
between them, even though they're in
four different subjects, is they're
all aimed at non-science majors.
Okay.
And so a lot of times it's the same
students taking those math courses
and quantitative reasoning and the
astronomy or astrobiology course.
So you wanna make sure everything's really
well integrated and the same ideas, the
kind of math you need for everyday life,
the building a cosmic perspective so that
we understand our place in the universe.
Those are the ideas I wanna
get across in everything I do.
So I definitely work those into my kids'
books, um, and my public books as well.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
So do you wanna walk us through
some of the books you've written?
Because there, it's definitely
a unique take and, and.
People have presented them.
You have some pretty cool
examples, so I'll let you tell 'em.
I don't need to spoil it.
.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Thanks.
Well, on the kids side, um, I
have seven books now for kids.
Wow.
Kids, including the new one.
Um, the first was Max Goes to the Moon.
And, uh, that had been something I'd
been wanting to do for a long time.
And finally the opportunity rolled around,
uh, with teaming up with some of the
people from my college textbook publisher.
And the idea behind it was to
try to get kids really excited
about science, who wouldn't maybe
necessarily be excited to begin with.
And one of the things when I was
teaching elementary school that I
recognized about Science Books for
Kids was they tended to sort of just
be, um, they were pretty much pure
nonfiction and a little bit encyclopedic.
Yeah.
Um, some of them had a little bit of
a story that went along with them, but
nothing that really took you through.
you know, a, a fictional story, but
presenting all the science clearly.
So that was my goal.
So I send my dog to the moon.
It's the story of how we go
back to the moon, um, for the
first time since the Apollo era.
But I build in on the sides of the
pages, these detailed science boxes.
I call 'em the big kid boxes
to make sure that kids.
you know, enjoy the story
when they're very young.
But then as they get older, they can
start to really understand the science
and those boxes as well as their teachers.
And their parents might learn some science
from those boxes that they can then answer
questions that kids might be asking.
So I started with Max Goes to
the moon, then I did, max goes
to Mars and Max goes to Jupiter.
Uh, then I did a book on global
warming for kids called The
Wizard Who Saved the World.
And then I got a call one day from uh, a
woman named Patricia Tribe, who had been
the head of education at the Johnson Space
Center and an astronaut named Alvin Drew.
And once they convinced me, they
really were who they said they
were, they told me they wanted to
take Masco to the moving up into.
And I said, well, that,
that would be very cool.
And that was the start of what they
started called the Story Time from
Space Program, which is now launched,
uh, 20 or 30 books by a variety
of authors, including all of mine.
Wow.
And, uh, the, they started taking
those books to the Space Station
and the Space Station people came
to me and said, you've written Max
goes to the moon, Mars and Jupiter.
What about Max goes to the Space station?
Oh yeah.
Okay.
And, uh, and I said, well, it
turns out in Max goes to the moon.
The opening scene is a parade where
he's come back from the Space Station.
That was just a plot of ice I put in
there, um, to explain why my dog was
the one chosen to go to the moon.
And so I said, sure,
that'll be the prequel.
And so I wrote, max goes
to the Space Station.
Uh, then I wrote a, my, uh, most
recent until this new kid's book
was one called I Humanity, which
is the story of how we know what
we know about the universe today.
And then I have this new one
called Totality on eclipses.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
So what made you decide to write a book on
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: eclipses?
Ah, so, um, you know, my big
focus is education and outreach.
And from a science standpoint
in general, and especially from
astronomy, there's really no bigger
opportunity than an when it comes
over a place like the United States.
So in 2017, that path crossed over
millions of people and, you know, tens
of millions more drove to the path.
So all of a sudden you've
got this huge media attention
around an astronomical event.
And so from my standpoint, that means you
have an opportunity to make it, not just,
oh, that's really cool, I saw it, but to
actually teach people something from it.
So before the 2017 eclipse, I was
looking for a way to really hook
people in, uh, to spread the word.
And it turned out nobody had
done an app to help people find.
Their way to the eclipse
and learn about it.
So I decided I wanted to try to do that.
I teamed up with one of the world's
premier eclipse code writers, a guy named
Zapier Hub, who's, he actually lives
in France, so he wrote all the code.
Um, I got an app developer.
I helped them with the interface
and put in all the learning
content about eclipses.
And, uh, it was really fun and
I thought it'd be fun to write
a book to go along with that.
So that was the origin
of, of this new book.
Okay.
Kevin Horek: Very cool.
So when does it come out and, uh, how pe
how will people be able to get a copy?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Uh, well, the, uh,
the official publication date is actually,
uh, two days from now, the 14th, which
I timed to be 13 months to the day, uh,
before the October 14th, 2023 annual
eclipse coming across the United States.
Um, and just briefly, an annular
eclipse is kind of like a total eclipse
except for the moons farther away, so
it doesn't completely block the sun.
You'll still see a ring or an
annulus of sunlight around it,
so it won't get completely dark,
but it'll be really cool anyway.
Um, and then there's a total solar
eclipse on April 8th, 2024, which
will be even better than the 20 17 1.
So that was how I timed the, uh, the
publication of this book to make sure
people have it in time to make all their
preparations for the 23 and 24 eclipses.
And as far as where to get it, um,
it should be available at lots of
bookstores and, uh, on Amazon you
can go to my big kids science.com
website and there's a discount offer
on there and links for purchasing it.
So it should be pretty easy to find.
Kevin Horek: No, very cool.
So I, I'm curious.
Like I, I've always kind of been
fascinated by, by space and I, I think
obviously like a large majority of
the population, but 2017 seemed like
almost everyone was interested in it.
Do, do you agree with that?
And why do you think that was
such a popular space event?
Well, eclipses
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: have such a
huge long impact in human history.
There's lots of stories about, you
know, eclipses changing the course
of history because they used to
come unexpectedly right back before
people knew how to predict them.
They used to be considered
these very frightening events.
Right.
The suns disappearing right
in the middle of the day.
And so I think they just have this long
connection to human history that makes
people naturally interested in them.
They're also something that at
least if you're outside, uh, when
one's going on, you can't miss it.
Right.
You can go outside.
Yeah, sorry.
Night and not ruby look up, which is what
a lot of people do, particularly with
city lights and everything else that make
it hard to see things in the night sky.
But that eclipse, you
know, you can't miss that.
And so there was a lot of
excitement building towards it.
Um, I think, yeah, like you
said, almost everybody got.
Excited about it.
And I think there's gonna be even
more this time because there were
many millions of people who traveled
to get to the path of totality.
And I think every one of those people
who was on the path of totality wants to
go back and they're telling every single
one of their friends and family members.
So I think we're really gonna
get an enormous turnout on the
path of totality this time.
Um, and of course, the rest of the United
States, if you don't get to travel, you'll
still have a partial eclipse on both of
those dates in a, in, uh, October, 2023.
In April, 2024.
Kevin Horek: Right.
No, that, that makes sense.
So when you talk to adults and kids
about space or science or kind of
anything related to all the stuff you've
written about and you, you know, written
textbooks around, is your approach
kind of the same, different, a bit,
a bit, a bit of both and, and kind
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: of why?
It's really the same basic approach.
It's just a matter of, um, adjusting the
level that you're presenting at it at.
But, um, you know, one of my mantras
about teaching is brains are brains.
And sometimes we get people who
think teaching adults is very
different from teaching kids, but the
learning process, whatever goes on
physiologically in the brain when you
learn something, has to be the same.
It might happen easier in younger kids.
90 year olds, but it's still the
same process going on in the brain.
And so to get someone to learn something,
you can't just present what you want
them to learn, the content, you also
have to present it in a way that
makes them want to learn it, which
is what I call the perspective piece.
And that's because I think that you
learn something or you're excited about
learning something when it makes you go,
oh wow, I never thought of that before.
So it changes your perspective and then
it should also inspire you to go further.
So I always think of it as
education perspective and, and
inspiration as the three pillars
of how you teach successfully.
So I'm gonna do the same thing whether I'm
talking to young kids or to people at a
retirement home, which I do often as well.
Okay.
Kevin Horek: Can you maybe walk us
through why obviously kids learn probably
faster in a lot of cases, some of
the stuff than we do as maybe adults?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Yeah, I mean,
that's actually a really good question
and the subject of, of lots of research.
But, um, my personal guess is just
that, you know, their, their brains
are sort of less full, right?
So they're right.
It's easier for them to absorb
the, the new information.
But a again, you're still gonna
go through the same process
ultimately to, to learn something.
And then the, uh, converse to that is that
adults have more background information.
So when I'm speaking to adults, I can sort
of resume that there's things that they
know that when I'm speaking to kids, I
can't assume that they're already gonna.
Kevin Horek: Right.
But then when you're talking to adults,
how do you make sure you're not kind
of like talking over or kind of like
a over somebody's head or kind of
insulting them by , you know, kind of
talking to them like they're a child.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Uh, so those are
the things that you want to avoid, right?
Both those two things.
And so basically you have to be
conscious about avoiding them.
So make sure that you always
review everything that is
prerequisite information.
Even if it's just a very brief thing,
like, you know, the sun is a star.
If you don't say that and you assume
people know it, they might not.
If you say, you know, the sun is
a star, um, some people might not
have known it and now they do know.
So they're on the same page with you.
And those people who already did
know it are like, well, you said
you know it, you didn't insult me.
Right?
Right.
Um, you, you complimented
me on what I already know.
So it's that type of approach that I
think can reach people in a way that.
comes across so that they get all
brought up to speed, but it doesn't
sound condescending to anyone.
Right.
No,
Kevin Horek: that, that
makes a lot of sense.
So I, I'm curious then, because you've
been doing this for so long and you've
written stuff for obviously so many
different age ranges, um, walk me through
some advice that you would give to people
a as maybe like earlier in their writing
career or stuff you wish you knew earlier.
Because obvi, we, uh, like as people
that have written books before, it's
really, really challenging and very,
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: very time consuming.
Are you talking on the writing
side or, uh, generally, or
on the science writing side?
Well,
Kevin Horek: probably both
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Really.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, if it's.
Yeah, the, the sci for
the science writing side.
Um, I have a book called On Teaching
Science, and I lay out kind of strategies
for teaching and writing is really a
form of teaching, at least when you're
doing it for a science writing thing.
So I would follow those strategies.
For example, focus always
on the big pic picture.
Don't get lost in the details.
Make sure you audience always knows what's
the goal that you are aiming at as they
read along, as you're writing for them.
Um, make sure that you always
start with concrete examples
before you go to abstractions,
because the brain works that way.
We learn concretely first and
then learn to abstract later.
Don't use jargon that people
aren't going to be familiar with.
Uh, don't use acronyms because people
have to translate those in their head
even once they're familiar with them.
So just spell it out if you're writing
from a more general writing perspective.
. You know, I think that the key is
just you have to get disciplined
to get things done, right.
The easiest thing to do as a writer is to,
uh, get a block and not write, but you can
always overcome a block if you say, I'm
not getting up until I've done something.
Um, and I think that's the way to go.
And even if you do something that's really
poor, because you can redo it, and I go
through so many drafts of what I write,
um, I don't think in any of my books,
there's probably not a word in there
that I haven't gone over at least 15 to
20 times by the time it gets published.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
Okay.
So I, I'm kind of curious, what does
a, a typical day look like for you?
Because you have so many things on
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: the go.
Oh yeah, it's, it can be interesting.
Um, most of my day is spent
at my computer writing.
Um, but I'm often juggling several books
at once this year for odd timing reasons.
All of my, all four of my major subject
textbooks were up for, um, revision.
And so I've been working on all four of
those at various points over the years.
So I have to juggle, you know, make
sure, making sure I hit all my deadlines
and, uh, but it's actually really fun
by switching between projects like that.
I think it keeps me from getting
bored in one or the other.
So I'm always, you know, changing
gears and thinking, and then I'll.
Throw in the kids books, um, where
I can to do something like that, try
to do some extra outreach with shows
like yours or speaking at schools.
Um, I, before Covid, I was doing
a lot of, uh, speaking at schools.
By the way, I do have a free program
for speaking at schools and communities
across the country that's been on hiatus
for a couple years due to Covid, but I'm
starting to back up and the information
about that is on my website if people
are interested in having me come o Okay,
Kevin Horek: so, sorry, let's
stop there for a second.
Give us some more details about that.
What, so obviously you go to a classroom
or school and talk, but like what
do you talk about and, and how do.
People get in touch with you
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: about that.
So for elementary schools,
I usually do two assemblies.
One for the kindergarten through grade
two, and one for grades three to five.
So with those two assemblies,
I hit the whole school.
Um, for this next couple years, I'm gonna
be probably doing Max goes to the moon
with the younger kids and totality about
the eclipses coming up for the older kids.
Um, if it's a local school
for me, you know, where it's a
short drive, I'll just do that.
Um, go into the school and do
those, takes me a couple hours.
If it's an out of town visit, then
I ask people to put together a
program where it keeps me busy.
So I might do a two schools in one day and
a teacher workshop in the afternoon, and
a public talk in the evening for grownups
on either eclipses or global warming.
Uh, possibly talking to a college if
there's a college there to the faculty.
About teaching to grad students.
Um, and, uh, yeah, on my website, um,
it's I think posted on both my websites,
but on jeffrey bennett.com/events,
there's the information about how
to get in touch with me and the
kind of program that I'm looking for
if people wanna put that together.
Sure.
Kevin Horek: So, I, I'm curious, I, I
know this is kind of a controversial
topic, obviously with like climate
change and everything that's happening,
but what advice do you give to people
that are really wanna make a difference?
Like what can we do at home, maybe on
a daily, weekly, or monthly basis to,
to maybe like start caring about it?
Cuz I think a lot of people want, want
to care more about the environment
and climate of climate change, but
they don't really know where to start.
And I think a lot of people just
don't really wanna spend the time and
or have the time to actually do the
research to see what they can just do.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Yeah,
well, there's a couple things.
Um, you know, the first is
from a teaching standpoint.
So for all the teachers out there, I
think the key is what I like to call,
uh, teaching with inspiration and not
fear, because really, particularly with
young people, but it's becoming the case.
I think, you know, according to polls,
the vast majority of close to 90% of
Americans now accept that climate change
is real, and it's happening to us and.
Common reaction to that is, is a
fear-based reaction to think, oh,
we're, you know, the, the way the
media tends to portray it, our
future is either bleak or bleaker.
And that's not a very inspiring
message for kids or anybody to go
out and do something constructive.
So you wanna turn that focus and think
about, okay, if we do solve this problem,
what kind of world will we live in?
And it's really a pretty incredible
world because you don't have air
pollution and water pollution anymore.
You've got lots of energy for doing
all kinds of, you know, great things,
eliminating poverty, going to the moon
and Mars, uh, so many other things.
So we wanna make sure that we teach the
real science and the fact that this is
a very serious issue, but also that it
is solvable if we all work together.
um, to address it.
And that brings us back to the other part
of your question of what can people do?
And I'd say there's two things.
Number one, on an individual
level, you wanna do what you can
to minimize your personal impact.
So that's things like, if you
can, uh, switch to an electric
car or an e-bike, or take public
transportation and things like that.
Um, if you can, if you can't,
then figure out what you can do.
And then secondly, all those individual
things are great, but global warming is
a global problem, which means we need
policy decisions at the governmental level
that will move in the right direction.
And so for that, I'd say vote, um, and
make sure that your politicians know
that you care about this issue and that
they should be on the side of trying
to solve it as quickly as possible.
Okay.
Interesting.
Kevin Horek: That, that's good advice.
I, I, you said something that
I want, uh, clarification on.
You said it could potentially end poverty.
Was that, did I hear that correctly?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: You did.
Um, you know, the, there's, uh,
when you look at economic data and
what's going on, what cause, why is
there so much poverty in the world?
And of course, poverty's actually
been going down the world's been
getting a lot better on that front
over the last, uh, several decades.
But really the, the key to eliminating
poverty in a lot of ways is energy.
If you have enough energy
to supply people, uh, with.
You know, the, the energy resources
we like to use to have a car, to
have electricity, to have, uh, fresh
water, all those kinds of things, with
enough energy, you can supply that.
And most of the places in around the
world where there's still high poverty
are places that are also energy poor.
They don't have that infrastructure.
So by creating better, cleaner
energy, we create the opportunity
to address global pro poverty.
Now, it doesn't happen automatically.
You'd also have to put policies in
place to deal with that, but without the
energy, it's very difficult to deal with.
If you have the energy, then you
can in principle deal with it.
Interesting.
No, I,
Kevin Horek: yeah, that,
that makes a lot of sense.
That's pretty cool.
So why, like, and you can correct me if
I'm wrong here, it seems like some science
and technology and stuff aren't taught in.
in every school or it's less schools.
I Is that true and we need to do
more or, or where are we kind of
at in the education space actually
teaching some of this stuff.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Um,
there is definitely a shortage
of, of science teaching.
In fact, I mentioned that story
Time from Space program started by
Patricia Tribe, who had been the
head of education at Johnson Space
Center and Alvin drew the astronaut.
And their main motivation for starting
that program was research showing that
the amount of time spent on science had
gone way, way down as reading came up.
Right?
And reading came up because we saw that
there were literacy issues and therefore
we needed to spend more time teaching
kids working on reading with kids.
So that's a good thing.
But then they were like,
Where did that time come from?
It was coming from science.
So they thought, well, maybe
if we can put the science and
the reading together by using
science-based stories for the reading.
And that was the whole concept
behind story time from space, having
astronauts read science-based books
to kids from the space station.
So we do need more
science than the schools.
Um, my own personal view is that
the weak link is in middle school.
And I guess I'll put a plug here too.
I have a complete free earth and space
science curriculum for middle sch
school students posted on the web at
grade eight numeral eight Science.
Dot com and you can use that as
basically your textbook for middle
school Earth and Space Science.
It's all free and uh, because I think
middle school has been the weakest link.
Elementary teachers have
a lot of good activities.
High school, it's a pretty set
curriculum, but middle school,
we've been kind of dropping the ball
a bit, not having good resources
available for teachers to work with.
And that's what teachers need.
They need good resources.
So that's what I tried to
create with that project.
Very
Kevin Horek: cool.
And we'll also post links to all
the books and your resources on
learner.co for people listening.
So I, I'm curious, because you are
so involved in kind of teaching other
people basically all day long, what are
you learning about that's outside of
kind of science and technology and then
maybe kind of what you do during the
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: day?
Um, well, I'm learning a lot of the
science and technology all the time.
Um Sure.
Cause in order to be teaching other
people about it, and particularly for my
textbooks, I have to be keeping up with,
with everything that's going on out there.
So I've been super excited
about seeing the new images from
the James Webspace telescope.
Totally.
That
Kevin Horek: sounds awesome.
Do you wanna talk about that
quick, just for people that don't
maybe know what that is yet?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Uh, sure.
I mean, luckily that's gotten
great, uh, media attention.
So I think most people are
recognizing those images now.
But the James Webspace telescope is the
successor to the Hubble Space Telescope,
capturing already these incredible
images, even though it's only been
operational for a couple of months now.
And we're just gonna be seeing just
astonishing things from this telescope
for the next, uh, decade or two.
Um, and then there's
perseverance on Mars, uh, the.
Mission that's been delayed and
launching to, to the moon here a couple
times, but it should be going soon.
There's actually a really cool mission
that most people have never heard about
called Dart, d a r t, uh, that NASA
launched a couple years ago, and it's
going to try to deflect an asteroid by
crashing into it on September the 26th.
So just like two weeks from now,
um, back two weeks to the day.
So be watching for that.
It should produce some
really great pictures.
But the idea is, uh, if you're, if
anybody saw the movie, don't look up,
you know, or an asteroid's coming at us.
The idea behind this mission is to learn
what we could actually do about it if
that kind of scenario happened for real.
Okay.
Kevin Horek: How, how
does that kind of work?
Like it's gonna crash in and
hopefully change its course.
Is it?
It's probably more complicated
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: than that.
No, that's basically how it works.
Now.
The course change is
gonna be very, very tiny.
You know, like millimeters change in, in
the position that you would get initially.
Because it's a very small spacecraft
and a relatively large asteroid.
But it, the idea is to see, does it
actually shift the course of the asteroid?
Because one thing we don't know about
some of these asteroids is really
like, whether they're solid or not.
Um, it could be that the spacecraft
instead of like crashing into it and
making it move, will just sort of sink
in, um, without affecting its orbit.
So the goal is to see exactly what
happens, and the measurements will be
precise enough that even though it's not a
kind of shift that you'd ever notice with
your eyes, the scientists will be able to
measure exactly how much the orbit changes
and use that to inform future, um, plans
if there were ever a threatening asteroid.
This is a non-threatening asteroid
that, you know, we've had a, the
NASA has had a fly out to picked
because it's non-threatening and
easy to, to do this mission with.
. So
Kevin Horek: is, is it just kind
of a, basically a trial mission in
case we actually need to move one in
the future so it doesn't hit earth?
Is that, is that kind of what they're
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: trying to do here?
Yeah, that's, that's exactly what it is.
The, the, actually the office at NASA
that's responsible for this mission is
called the Planetary Defense, um, office.
So it's basically their job is to figure
out how do we protect the planet, um, if
we ever find an asteroid coming at us.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
No, that's interesting.
So Greg, John and I were talking kind
of earlier before, um, you got on
about a lot of the people that are
have read or will read your books,
probably some of them will end up in
space at some point in their lifetime.
Do you agree with that or
what are your thoughts around
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: that?
Absolutely.
Um, yeah, I hope a lot of them will.
And, uh, you know, I think one
of the things to keep in mind,
like with Mars for example, is.
We're probably still at least 10,
maybe 20 years away from going to Mars.
And when you do that math, it means
basically the first people to walk on
Mars are probably in elementary school
right now, or middle or high school.
So, you know, you should be looking
at your students for all the teachers
out there as the potential first
person to walk on Mars and making
them think about that, that's a
possibility for their own future.
So
Kevin Horek: realistically, in your
opinion, how far are we away from,
you know, maybe getting P people into
space or on Mars, or, or what are
your thoughts about, you know, kind
of the average person getting into.
Well,
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: for the average
person, you know, it's a cost issue.
Sure.
Right.
Yeah.
We would have to get
the cost way, way down.
Um, you'll, if you go through my
books, you'll see in, uh, my third
max book, max goes to Jupiter.
Uh, when that happens, they get to
their spaceship by writing up in
what's known as a space elevator, which
takes you from the earth equator, all
the way up to geosynchronous orbit.
If we built the space elevator for real,
like the one that's in that book, um,
then people could go to space for a
few dollars because it would be quite
inexpensive in terms of the energy
cost of getting up there versus using
a big giant rocket to get yet there.
Um, so I think it probably will be a while
until the average person is able to go.
Right.
But certainly there'll be some space
tourism from wealthy people, and I
think there's gonna be a lot more
science, uh, opportunities for, you
know, basically NASA astronauts,
you know, right now there's.
a hundred, maybe 200 NASA astronauts.
I can imagine that a decade or two from
now, NASA's gonna need thousands to
do all the things that we'll be doing
on the moon and on Mars and so on.
Okay, so
Kevin Horek: what, what
do you mean by that?
Like, like, okay, you have
a couple hundred people.
Like what types of potential
careers do you see in the future
for the astronauts of the future?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Well, I do think
that we're gonna end up with a moon
base, um, hopefully fairly soon.
And I think there's a lot of important
reasons for having a moon base.
Okay.
Um, you know, I think for me the biggest
is actually the intangible reasons.
Um, I think it's very important
that it be an international moon
base where people from all over
the world are working together.
And I like to think of it as, you know,
kids anywhere in the world at that point
would be able to look up in the moon,
which everybody can see and say, gosh,
we're all working together up there.
Why are we having so
much trouble down here?
And that with that thought process,
people would learn to work better
together down here and we would have
less conflict and more and more tolerance
and openness, um, here on Earth as well.
But then there's also resources we can.
From the moon.
You know, going back to that energy
thing we talked about in poverty,
another big issue for the earth is
all the mining that we do, right?
That destroys the environment
separate from global warming, right?
Um, if we had plenty of energy, we
could just launch missions to the moon,
dig up the resources on the moon to
bring back here, and then turn most
of earth into basically a national
park so that we're no longer having
to tear up the environment that way.
Um, going on to Mars, there's all
kinds of things we could learn by
studying Mars, including about the
origin of life, finding out whether
there is life on Mars, and then
using it as a base to keep exploring.
So all those things are gonna take
lots and lots of people both in space
as astronauts and on the ground doing
all the science, all the engineering,
all the teaching, all the medical work.
Um, pretty much any career can end up
having a space component to it, if that's
something that you're interested in.
That's fascinating.
Kevin Horek: That's, that's
really cool actually.
So how soon do you think we'll have
like a little thing on, on the moon
that, you know, a bunch that you just
outlined, that a bunch of countries come
together and like, are we 5, 10, 20, 50
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: years?
Well, you know, that's a great question.
If you had asked me that when I was
10 years old, when Apollo 11 landed on
the moon, I would've said five years.
Okay.
Um, and it's 50 years later now.
Um, it's all a matter of, uh, basically
political will because this is a
matter of budgets and so on, I think.
Okay.
Um, I would like to see it all done
through international collaboration.
One of the things that's actually pushing
it along right now is international
competition with the Chinese in, in
particular, and the Indians who are
both talking about also building
moon bases and Mars bases and so on.
Hopefully, rather than just
competing, we'll work together.
Um, but I think the push is there now
and, you know, if things go smoothly,
I would say within a decade we could
have a good operating moon base doing
astronomical research from the moon,
which I forgot to mention before.
The moon is a great place
to do astronomy from.
One of the things that makes
something like a James Webspace
telescope so expensive is it's
floating out there in space.
So you gotta design all this
complicated stuff to get it
to point in the right place.
Whereas when you build a telescope on
the ground, that's pretty easy to do and
have it on a nice, stable base to point.
So you could build huge telescopes
on the moon much more easily than
putting telescopes out in space
once you establish that moon base.
So you have people there to work on it.
So it's a great place for astronomy.
Okay, so then would
Kevin Horek: you u almost use
it as a receiver basically,
and then send it back to earth?
Yeah,
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: well, same way
the, the James Webspace telescope Okay.
Is actually much further
away than the moon is.
And all that information
comes back via radio wave.
So yes, you would send the, uh,
information back via radio signals to the
earth, the way we get all our information
from all of our space missions.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
Now that's, that's really cool.
So I'm curious, because you're, you've
done so much in this space, do you have
any other advice or predictions for
kind of our future in space, outside
of what you just kind of mentioned?
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Well, I think
that the, the key thing is, We have
to remember that space is something
that we can do if we choose to do it.
And if we all work
together in positive ways.
I mean, one of the greatest things
about space is, is that it's a
positive use of our technology.
It's not doing something to blow
things up or that harms anybody.
It's all aimed at the improvement of
our understanding of ourselves and
the universe, um, and the human race.
And so space is a very
positive thing for everyone.
And I think if we just focus on
we can do this, we can, instead of
always having conflicts, we can work
together to build a positive future.
That's what I hope everyone will
focus on when they're thinking
about what they can do with their
lives in general, and as well, why I
think it's useful to go into space.
Interesting.
No,
Kevin Horek: that's, that's
really very good advice.
But we're kind of coming
to the end of the show.
So do you have any other kind of final
thoughts or advice to people that are
maybe, you know, either looking to get
into the space or, or just because what
you're doing is very entrepreneurial
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: as well.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I think the
key particularly for kids is
if you're interested in this,
you've got to be well educated.
You've got to learn.
Um, you, if you wanna be a scientist
or an astronaut, you gotta focus
especially on science and math.
But you need to know everything.
You've gotta also know the arts.
You've gotta know your, your reading,
your language skills, your cultural
skills, your hi understanding of history.
So focus on your education.
That's the, the most important thing.
Um, one of my favorite quotations, my
single favorite quotation is from HG
Wells a hundred years ago, and he said,
human history is more and more a race
between education and catastrophe.
And I think that's very, very true.
If we.
With all the technology we
have, we can do great damage if
we don't use it in good ways.
Right.
Um, and the way we learn to use it
in good ways is by becoming educated
about everything, including, like I
said, history, science, all of it.
So become educated, learn to think, think
critically, and make sure that you help
us build a positive pathway to the future.
Kevin Horek: No, I, I think
that's really good advice.
And you mentioned a bunch of free
resources on your own stuff, and
we'll post them on the learn.co,
uh, website, and there's a ton of
also really good courses or material
on YouTube and around the web
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: fair to say.
Yeah, that is absolutely.
Just make sure you find the
good stuff and not the bad
Uh,
Kevin Horek: is there any advice for
kind of weeding out some of that?
Because obviously there's, like you
just said, there's good content and bad
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: content.
Yeah, well, the best way is to, to go to
sources that, you know, you could trust.
Like if it's a NASA video, for example,
right from the American Museum,
natural history, something like that.
Uh, one of the things I did in that
middle school curriculum that I posted,
that I mentioned, um, is I did a
lot of that for the teachers, right?
I've already gone through and picked
out the things that are legitimate
and good to use in your course.
So, but yeah, stick to
the reputable sources.
Perfect.
Jeff.
Kevin Horek: Well, how about we close
out the show with mentioning where people
can get more information about yourself,
all the free stuff you mentioned, and if
actual teachers or or schools actually
want you to show up in person and, and,
uh, do a talk and, and maybe read them.
Dr. Jeffrey Bennett: Yeah, the best
place to go is the Big Kid Science
website, so big kid science.com,
b i g k i d s c i e n c e.com.
Um, you can get from there to
all of my various other pages.
So the events page there has my
school program for visits and so on.
The books page lists all of my books.
There's a, uh, eclipse page that
lists our free Totality app.
Um, there's a link there to the
middle school, free middle school
curriculum page, so you can get to
everything from big kids science.com.
Kevin Horek: Perfect.
And, and like I said, we'll
also link, uh, in, in the show
notes, notes on uh, learner.co.
Well, Jeff, I really appreciate you
taking the time outta your day to
be on the show, and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you and
have a good rest of your day, man.
You bet.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Okay, bye.
Bye.