Current Vet

In this episode, Dr. Lottie chats with Dr. Bolu Eso about the day-to-day of life in small animal general practice, building confidence in consults and surgery, setting boundaries to avoid burnout, and his top tips for dentistry! Bolu also shares his perspective on diversity & representation in vet med and how his early experiences shaped who he is as a vet today.

Bolu is a small animal GP vet who also works in TV (including Pooch Perfect, Fur Babies, and ITV’s Love Your Weekend). He has recently become a General Practitioner Certified in Small Animal Dentistry and Oral Surgery and a London Vet Show “30 Under 30” award recipient! So, he is the PERFECT person to talk to about being a GP vet.

Where to find Bolu:
Instagram: @drbolueso
Youtube: @drbolueso
TikTok: @docboj

Timeline:
00:00 Intro
01:52 Bolu’s Journey to Vet Med
11:43 GP vs Specialising
18:59 Day-to-Day as a GP
25:01 Top Tip for Consulting
34:33 Minorities in Vet Med
44:51 Boundaries & Mindset
53:20 Dentistry!
01:03:04 Final Questions
01:08:35 Outro

Links


Current Vet is an educational podcast intended for veterinary students, veterinary professionals, and individuals with an interest in veterinary medicine.

All content provided in this podcast and its associated materials is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not intended as, and must not be considered a substitute for, professional veterinary advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Any clinical cases discussed in this podcast are fictional, and are designed to reflect typical or likely clinical scenarios for educational purposes. They do not represent specific real-life cases, clients, or animals.

While every effort is made to ensure accuracy and alignment with current evidence at the time of publication, veterinary medicine is a rapidly evolving field, and recommendations may change over time.

Creators and Guests

Host
Dr. Lottie Wilkinson
Creator and host of the Current Vet podcast

What is Current Vet?

The podcast that makes veterinary medicine simple.

In each episode, Dr. Lottie breaks down clinical conditions, cases, and concepts across species, focusing on pathophysiology, decision-making, diagnostics, and what actually matters in practice. It’s the kind of context that makes your knowledge finally click.

Every month, we’ll also have honest conversations with guests about the incredible variety of veterinary medicine, what you can do with a vet degree and how to think bigger about your career.

Whether you’re cramming for exams or looking for a soundtrack for your dog walk, Current Vet will make veterinary medicine simple

Transcript – Life as a Smallies Vet | Dr. Bolu Eso

Intro

Hello, hello and welcome back to Current Vet. This is the podcast that makes veterinary medicine simple. I'm your host, Dr. Lottie, and today we're talking about being a small animal GP vet. I think when people think of vets, this is the classic role people imagine, and of course, it's what the majority of graduates end up going into once they start practicing.

So I'm very excited to get into this today and to tell us all about GP Land. We have Dr. Bolu Bolu joining us. Bolu is a smallies vet in London, but absolutely someone who, uh, lives life to the fullest. He has appeared in different TV shows like Pooch Perfect and Fur Babies. He's currently the vet on itvs Love Your Weekend.
He's an ambassador for the Scrubs brand. Figs has appeared in some of their amazing campaigns, has recently become a general practitioner certified in small animal dentistry and oral surgery, and top it all off, he's just received London Vet shows 30 under 30 award, which recognizes incredible talents in younger vets.

I personally love his meal inspo and recipes he posts on social media as well. So if you need some dinner in spo, get onto his Instagram. But Bolu, welcome to Current Vet and thank you so much for being here.
So much for having me. That's quite the intro. I always get a bit like, I feel like because I'm very um, onto the next, onto next, onto next.

When people start listening up stuff that you're doing, it's like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, I did do that. Okay, cool. I can give myself a little pat in the back. So, yeah. That's nice. Well, you've got an insane cv. Sorry.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's all. Lot of hard work in tears. Lots of tears. Yeah.

Ever since on tears.

Bolu's Journey to Vet Med

Well, let's start with talking about how you got into vet meds and then how it led to all of these amazing things for you.

Yeah. I mean, when I started vet medicine it was, well, like if we go back to like what inspired me to be a vet, I think there was no real background in veterinary medicine.

There was nobody in my family that did veterinary medicine. There was nothing called animals in particular. I was just a kid that really loved watching National Geographic documentaries, so like animal documentaries. I just fall asleep to that and Steve IWiN and just watching all those things on tv and I just really enjoyed those things.

And I think from a very young age it was this idea that I wanted to help people and I wanted to work with animals and I put that together and that meant being a vet. So, um, there was a big thing about me just wanting to be a vet and so that became like a mission goal or a lifetime goal because with, you have to plan so far in advance your whole life, especially when you're applying.

And I looked at university to apply to at a young age. We're talking about like eight years old or so, and I just figured, okay, this is what I need to do to get in there. And so just started trying to build up work experience, trying to become like an attractive student, taking the right courses, being in the right places, reading more around it.

And um, before you know it, that's how I ended up doing, you know, well trying to apply to get into Britney Medicine. And uh, at the time when I applied I was, had a glowing application and stuff, but I was rejected by Woody universities in the uk and I was really just wondering about it and really downtrod.

I remember going to India, I go do some work experience out there for like two months and then I came back and then somebody told me about studying in Budapest. Uh, so I flew out to Budapest, did the exam. After the exam, got accepted, moved to Budapest for six years and then became a vet, became a bit of back of that.

Wow. And then came home and since then, since then, just been working in the uk. Was supposed to go to the States, but been working in the uk, fell into tv, fell into social media and just keeping things ticking ever since then. So yeah, that's kind of been like my journey.

That's insane. How did you end up going to India?

First of all, what were you doing out there?

Yeah, so after I got rejected from all the universities that I wanted to apply to, even I was downtrodden. I was just like completely defeated 'cause I didn't have any plan B, I didn't know what I was gonna do. And so I had this idea afterwards of like, okay, maybe I'll just take a gap year.

'cause that was like the most common thing, like take a gap year. So I was like, how do I set myself up taking the best gap year? And I found this still was a charity called Projects Abroad. Projects abroad. I don't even know if they're still running. They probably are. But they do a lot of projects for different people where you can take internships abroad in different countries and, and work in different industries.

So they have like stuff like journalism, business studies, all that sort of stuff. And for me, I found a very new one and I was working with vets out in India for that like eight weeks or so for that summer. Basically I stayed with a host family in the middle of India in like rural Madura. And so, and it's funny because my friend's getting married there this year actually, so it's gonna be like a grand returning almost like 13, 14 years later.

Um, but yeah, I went out there, I went to Madura and I was in Madara and I go from like a local farm vet to the, the village vet to a small animal practice. And I kind of do that as a daily routine During the day. I'm still quite impressed with younger me kind of just getting on random buses and stuff in the middle of India, in the middle of nowhere, just kind of doing this.

But yeah, it was what I wanted to do, so I pursued the dream. But yeah, it was, yeah, it was a learning curve and a great experience.

Do you think that experience shaped who you are as a vet now?

I think failure did, yeah. Like the whole rejection, I think rejection and getting rejected from all the vet schools that I wanted to do and having a backup plan shaped how I'm, because I'm very all or nothing.
But then also going to Hungary also shaped who I am. One, because living in Hungary for six years, great experience and international university away from home outta a comfort zone. So many things that can shape you, especially in those formative years. But then just the idea that Hungary was something that was never on my radar.

It was never an option. It didn't even, it just came out of nowhere, like last minute. And it was like I flew out there, they all of a sudden accepted me when I did the entrance exam, they accepted me and then I came back home and flew back out to go and live there. And I made all this decision within a week and this was like a decision that changed the rest of my life within a week's, within a week span.

So that kind of, that kind of has a big impact on me to this day because I'm very much like. Versatile. I'm willing to go with the flow and allow change and allow plans to change so I can adapt to those plans and just be ready and not necessarily say no to opportunities like Pivot whenever I can. So yeah, that definitely did form a big part of me.

And how did you find studying abroad?

Amazing. Amazing. It was tough. It was tough 'cause Hungary is a very, um, old school university. A lot of the central European universities are very old school and archaic in their learning. So it's a lot of theory based stuff. It's a lot of oral exams, it's a lot of rigorous testing, like weekly rigorous tests and like, it's like thick textbooks you have to read and you have to like read like 700 pages of content every week and and get examined on it.

But I really enjoyed it, like being in another country, obviously it's got its communist history as well and it's quite rich in history. So living inside the city center, understanding that history was quite important for me as well. Understanding how different people think and interacting with different communities, like interacting with so many communities as well.

'cause you're in an international school. It was amazing and I've, I've made so many lifelong friends from there, people that I'm still in contact with to this day. And it was just great. It was honestly a great experience. I mean, a lot of people had hard times out there and I definitely had difficult times out there, but I wouldn't take it back for the world.

I loved it.

What actually made you then want to follow up and get into TV and be more in the public eye with your career?

So for me it wasn't, I feel like TV kind of drew me out. I didn't really go out seeking it per se, more so because of the fact that like, I wasn't even on social media for the whole time I was in university.

I wasn't at all, but like there were things I would do like on Snapchat and smaller stuff where I'd just do with my friends and I'd just kind of showcase that and sort of thing with my friends. And then I thought about making an Instagram and at that time a lot of the Instagrams that I was seeing were just strictly veterinary.
So a lot of the veterinary people were, you know, just posting veterinary stuff. And it was the same with medical doctors. Were just posting medical. I understood that there was this little crisis of the fact that a lot of people had this growing frustration of the fact that when they're online, people that only interact with them online only ever interact with them from that capacity.

So if you're only being a vet online, then people only ever interact with you as a vet and necessarily as a human, and see the other elements to you and the fact that you are multifacet and you do have more to contribute. So even when you are working, you're still getting people sending you more things for work.
You know, asking you, oh, does this look right on my cat? Does this look right on my dog? My dog's wrong? And then you're just getting bombarded with questions and then work just become turning four seven. And it was the same with human medics. And I think in veterinary medicine there was this understanding at least that a very pressurized field.

And so for me, when I wanted to go onto social media, I wanted to be like, look, the pressure comes from ourselves, but also from expectations that are forced upon us as well. And I think for me it was very. Important that if I'm gonna make an Instagram and I have to make it about all of me, it can't just be one section of me.

And I've, it is funny because social media's moving a lot more in that direction now. But when I first started, that was like kind of the idea that I had that I had to just be like, I'm human. This is everything that I'm sharing. I'm gonna share the fact that I'm cooking on this day, or I'm going whole day here, or I'm, I'm with my friends on this day.

Because it's almost like the veterinary entity gets removed from the human entity and it's like, okay, well you are a doctor, you should know this, this, this. At all times you should be switched on. And it's like, yeah, okay, fair enough. I'm switched on, but I also am human. I may have a, a loss in the family or something else going on.

I might be dealing with difficult mental health issues. And people can see that and then treat you a bit more with compassion if they understand your story a bit better from a holistic point of view, rather than just like, oh yeah, you're just a vet and this is you answering questions. They start to see the human in you and they humanize you a bit more.

So that was a big thing for me and just sharing that and sharing those experiences. And also like for a lot of my friends who didn't know what I did as a vet as well. Just sharing what I was doing as well. And then before I knew it, that started growing. And through friends, you know, networks made connections and those are what led me to tv.

Um, and then TV people came to me and they liked me and they said, okay, well if you're gonna be in this space, you need representation, have representation. And then more things just kind of came in different directions. And it is more so just working with brands and programs that I think truly are reflective of who I am.

And not necessarily just working with anybody, but just trying to do the right things, if that makes sense.
Yeah. And you can't, with your social media, you can't be professional all the time, 100% of your life. It nice to have a creative outlet that is, like you say, reflective of who you are as a person and not just this one facet of your being.

Yeah. I mean, it really depends on the individual. Like, 'cause I know, I know there are some people that treat their, their accounts as like purely businesses. So that's the business side of them and that is the professional side of them. And they're always gonna have a professional standpoint. And I guess that is a little bit more of the older generation, but it is very much like, this is the business, this is how I show, show face.

It's always gonna be professional, it's always gonna be this and that might work for them. And I think it just depends on how you interact with the media, how you interact with the platforms. Because some people can do that sustainably. Whereas I thought for me, if I wanna do it sustainably, I'm not the kind of person that can iron out like a second and third and fourth job.

Everything has to flow organically, otherwise I'm not gonna enjoy it. So it had to be organic and have to be able to share so many parts of me without putting that pressure that, oh, I can't share this, I can't share that. And

yeah,

and you, and then you become a bit restricted.

GP vs Specialising

I think my perception of vet in the UK and my experience is. And definitely in the US as well. A lot of the profession seems like it's going towards everyone specializing in something and picking, you know, cardiology or internal medicine. So why GP and why not specializing like a lot of other professionals in the field are doing?

To be honest, if you ever wanna see what veterinary medicine is doing, just watch what human medicine is doing and then just like put a, a timer of like 10 years, 10 years distance between them. And that's pretty much what happens. Like, you know, we just niche down. It's the same thing that happens in human medicine to the point of where they have surgeons that are operating on arteries and strictly arteries only.
Whereas like in brain medicine, we might not be there, but it probably will end up heading in that direction. And because again, there's only so much a human being is capable of and, and stretching yourself in such a large isn't always as feasible. I always wanted to specialize, so I always wanted to specialize in surgery, orthopedic and soft tissue surgery.

And that was my original goal. The thing was, is that. Paces. It's just pacing. God willing, this career for me will be a nice long career and I have time. So I felt like there's no need to rush. I enjoy being at GP 'cause I love being on the ground and I love being with people and making their stories. And GP just happens to be where I'm in at the moment.

But I wouldn't say, I wouldn't rule out the idea of specializing later on. Like maybe I will go down the internship route or residency route. But like even with my dentistry, I'm looking at doing the advanced practitioner module. So there is that side of doing dentistry. As a specialism, I still definitely wanna do my soft tissue and orthopedic surgery and specialism, but it's just having the time and the resources and to to focus on that and and pivot.

But in the stage of my life, I just enjoy gp. I love gp. I love the problem solving. I love being on the day to day. I love building relationship with clients. I love that community. And being local, it's harder now that I'm a locum. But yeah, it's one of those things that I am thinking of expanding upon or expounding upon.
But yeah, just kind of enjoying. Being a journalist at many things, I do really enjoy it. 'cause I can always tickle my brain and I can always do a deep dive into a different subject and not necessarily forget my skills in another subject.

What's the interest for you in surgery?

In surgery? I just love surgery.

I think. I think 'cause surgery's very binary, so it's very, it works, it doesn't work. But sometimes with internal medicine you have a little bit more time to play with your solution and things like that. Whereas surgery is very imminent. If something's broken, you, you repair it or you can't, you know, and if something is, is struggling, you either fix it or you don't.

Uh, if there's something there, you cut it. If you cut it out, you know, so it's that kind of thing. And I think there's a, there's a delicate arc to the surgery and I've always admired the dexterity and the art towards surgery, which is part of what drew me to dentistry as well. And I had a great surgical lecturer when I was in university in my third year.

And the way he talked and his confidence and all those things were really inspirational. And because of him, that's why I became so drawn into surgery. And along the years I've had so many mentors who I've worked alongside with him in, in surgery. And the more I see, the more I'm like, oh yeah, I love this.
I really enjoy this. I'm well aware it can be a very harsh teacher because it's very, it's very difficult to get that experience without having a lot of, um, heavy like mistakes or, or, or, or things that make you might, might trigger you or traumatize you away from surgery. 'cause it happens to a lot of ex, especially new grads.

And I think when, I mean for me, when I was in vet school, you know, you kind of learn a castrate, for example, or a spay and you go, these are like the bread and butter of surgery for a, a general practice vet. And when I learned them and did my first couple, I was like, great in 10 more surgeries, I'll have this down, it'll be great.

And then I'm like, I know. Probably 50, 60 in and I'm still like, Nope. I've got so far to go. And it's just repetition and it takes a lot longer to develop those skills. And like you say, the dexterity and I kind of smoothness to using instruments and approaching surgery that you really need. And yeah, I'm definitely nowhere near yet.

Get there one day.

Yeah, just confidence like, and it's like, it's a thing of just building a bank. You build a database over time like, and it takes time. That's what experience is, is that you live it, you experience it, and over that time you're building a database, you're filling your brain with all this information about like.

What looks wrong and what looks good and anatomy, you might have read anatomy, but seeing anatomy in a hundred, a thousand, 10,000 different patients is so completely different. So it gives you these like margins for error and how you can adjust and pivot. And so your brain is just filling out all this information.
It's hard for the brain to, to do that when it works from zero. So it just needs time to experience. I still remember my first seven bitch space and you kind of need those, those things 'cause I can tell you that I remember those because I remember something went wrong in every single one of those. And you, you need those errors in order to inform your brain as to where to backpedal or where to step forward.

And so you can actually make a confident decision and also make a confident, a confident treatment as well. Because sometimes having those errors you're like, okay, well I know I didn't do this so I can fix it this way, or you know, and so it's just like anything, you just need that proof of concept.

Should I say that? You can. You can do it. And this is what it looks like. So you just get used to it over a period of time. Yeah. And then you just start to get comfortable and then things become second nature after a while. Which is, which is nice. That's a nice, yeah. But it takes a lot of like hard forming neurons and you know, that feeling of discomfort and like, yeah.

You know, oh, this sucks to get there.

And like the first time you drop a pedicle or something like that, you can be taught what to do. Then the panic in the moment, and even if you've been told what you should do in theory, then going in, finding it, if it's bleeding, like there's all these different things that complicate the reality and you just have to experience it to then, like you say, be confident.

Build that muscle.

There's one thing of doing it in theory, and then there's another thing of in practice, because I remember my first one where things went wrong and in my mind I was recit the theory. Okay, just extend the incision, find the bleed, clamp it like g. In practice, I just had a wave of shock and like, you know, the cata amines were going off in my body and I was like, oh my God, is this a panic attack?

I think I'm gonna fade and I can't feel my knees. And why is the room spinning? And oh my God, my breathing is suddenly very heavy and this judic is tight. Could anybody else with a sweat from down my back? And then it's like everything is just kicking in and you're like, whoa, whoa. I cannot think. And that's where like at the time I was remembering to breathe, just remembering to breathe was like, okay, that would tend to me and ground me and bring me back to like, because the brain just starts running away as like a, like, it just starts, I'm like, oh, how do I explain this to Yan?

And this is not this. And, and you're like, whereas in the moment you just kind of need to find your way of focusing and, and grouting yourself and then getting back to it really and truly. So, yeah. Yeah. It's experience. That's all. Experience is really, yeah.

Day-to-Day as a GP

What is day-to-day life like for you as a gp?

Right now my day-to-day life is looking far a little bit far from GP 'cause I'm burdened with a lot of admin and uh, working with a lot of stuff behind the scenes. I've got some exciting products hopefully that I can announce later on this year. But right now at the moment, a lot of it's just like a lot of admin worker with brands, leasing with brands, a lot of meetings with, with brands that I am working with as well and kind of like future planning.

And in, in a normal gp I've done things like this before, videos like day in a life. And the best way to explain it when I've explained it to my friends before is you just dunno what to expect and it just goes super fast. And I used to explain this to my friends when I first started. That was that I'd get home from the gym in the morning.

So I'd go to the gym at stupid o'clock in the morning, like 4:00 AM I'd get home, I'd quickly eat, shower, get ready, go to work, and try and get to work. Back then I was commuting like an hour. And let's just say this as an example. Leave the house at like seven 30, get to work for eight 30, shift starts at nine or maybe eight 30 if I'm operating.

And as soon as I walked in the door, I remember like walking into the door at eight 30, had my coffee in hand, and then receptionist comes, bully, boy are you starting? Because a dog just got kicked in the face by a horse. And I'm like, whoa, wait, what's going on? And you dunno what's happening. And then all of a sudden you're there and you're like, okay, so you've got the owners in the waiting room, people are waiting for you to start, but then you've also got this emer that's showing off owners crying.

The dog is in lateral, recumbent in the back with one, the nurses. And then you have to now figure out this game plan that you didn't even expect whilst waiting for everybody that's like, you know, got their morning appointments. And you're like, whoa, okay, let's get going. And then you just kind of go and, you know, you figure out your plans and you, you triage everything and you just, you just, um, methodically chip away everything.

And you have your consults. And I think GP is very interesting because I always say no 15 minutes are ever the same. You have a different story every 15 minutes and a different patient to triage and a different case to work up and it's so versatile and you could be doing that for like the first three hours, then go to operating for another three hours and then come back and then go back into more consults depending on how the layout is set up.

But yeah, gps, gp, iss fun. Um, but it could also be very challenging at times.

Just take it day by day and see what walks in.

Yeah, exactly. Literally, because you dunno, I think before when I was a little bit less experienced, I always used to just kind of read ahead in the diary. And so I mean to, to an extent.

I still do it to this day. I think it's just like a hard set habit, just reading their head in a diary to see what's waiting for me and, and like reading my book ahead of schedule, just trying to figure out what symptoms am I looking for. What could about differential diagnosis be? Based on what the receptionist had put inside the column.

So they could be like, oh, dog fell off, fell off the table, or not doing right or vomiting the diarrhea for three days, or is w retching or coughing. And then I just go and read all the symptoms and differential diagnosis. And still to this day I kind of do it, but I do it a lot less now and I'm just kind of very acceptant of whatever walks in the door.

I'll figure out a way to,

yeah,

treat it if that makes sense, or work it up at least. So yeah, it's just kind of expect the unexpected, but being ready for it and being prepared for it.

So you don't necessarily have a exact approach to each consult, it's just it walks in and you do your thing?
Yes and no.

Like yes, there is a kind of a walk in and just get on with it, but everything follows the system. I'm very adamant on using systems because I like being able to repeat my results. I like having repeatable results. So it's like what they teach me in in vet school. I always get a history. Sometimes I'll be a bit like, uh, standoffish.

First I'll kind of just watch what the patient's doing, understand body language. And that's always a big thing from the jump understanding body language, both with the client and of the pet. Getting good history is always good. Letting the pet acclimate to the environment as well is always helpful. And then as I'm talking to 'em, getting history and writing things down, but also like, you know, I'll be palpating the pet and just trying to see if there's anything all right or anything amiss that I'm missing before I even figure out.

So like, what can I help you for? And then they tell me what they're, what they help, what they're here for, or whatever the complaint is. And then we kinda just work out from there. And I kind of sound ideas from my clients and they feed things back to me. And then we work up what we can do and what the next steps might be, or if they need any help.

And then I just, because they've been doing it for a little while now, I kind of have my routine answers. And then in some cases if it deviates from the routine, then I'd be like, okay, well we can work this up this way, or we can figure out this way. But there's still some sort of like method in the madness.

Yeah. And it's just that experience again and. Your default questions for a different presentation, you know, if you've got diarrhea, it's how often, what's it look like? All of these kind of things are just a bit, I guess, standard at this point.

So I see that. I mean, like, I mean, I spent so many times at the beginning of my, uh, career carrying three books.

I was actually, it's funny 'cause I had a mentoring, um, meeting with a student, uh, yesterday and I was just explaining like, you know, the, the three books that I used to carry around, I used to have like the top 100 consults, the Merck Manual and um, uh, the mini vet guide. And I used to carry them, carry them with me everywhere in my very first practice.

And I remember telling my head nurse at the time, I can't wait, like, don't have to carry these books anymore, but I would carry them around because every single thing, like I said, the method was always there. So you have like, you know, signalman and you have your patient history and you know how they're presenting and then you'd break down everything, differential diagnosis into treatment.

So it'd always be the same plan that you'd follow. So you, you, you'd kind of figure out. What you're gonna say, how are you gonna say it? And it's based on those books. So that's how like every patient I treat now is kind of based loosely on those early days of consistently reading the same chapters over and over and over again.

Yeah. One of my lecturers actually was the, one of the authors for the top 100 consults and every lecture they did, they were like, and this is a recommended textbook.

Oh, was it me that wrote that? Great.

Wow. This is the best book you'll have in practice.

Yeah, that sounds like a great flex. That's a great thing to do.

Top Tips for Consulting

I think one of the top concerns when it comes to new grads taking consults is the time you get per consult. So I think a lot of practices are going towards a 30 minute consult sometimes, which is nice. And there's definitely more flexibility around new grads, but. There is still a kind of pressure of condensing your method and your exam and taking a history and deciding what diagnostics and when you're a new grad and you're unsure, that I think is really daunting.

What advice have you got for kind of streamlining that process and making it feel a bit more comfortable for, for new grads and students?

It's funny too 'cause I haven't had to, I haven't had to think about that for a while. Uh, it's been a while since I've had to think about like, you know, the idea of having a longer consult.

And I remember very, because the idea is very much like, you know, the more consults you have, the more money you can make because you're seeing more clients in a day. And I feel like slowly the narrative is changing in retina medicine. More so because like if you look at a lot of GP practices, especially in the uk, it's going on an unlimited consult model.

And yes, you can see different patients in a day if you can speed up consults, you do. But I think there's a lot more emphasis on the fact if you spend the right amount of time with one client. Within reason, because if it's just a simple check and things like that, you might not necessarily be able to work it out.

But if you spend the right amount of time with one client, you can still earn a decent and considerable amount of money because you're actually addressing all their concerns and not necessarily rushing to get onto the next concern. And I just as I, as you were saying it, I was just thinking about that in my head, how, how interesting.

It's because like there was, I remember a time when a lot of senior vets would be like, what could you possibly need longer than 15 minutes for, for a vaccine consultation? Or what could you possibly need longer than 10 minutes for, for the dog that's got diarrhea or whatever? And I get it, when you do get good, you get quick.

But quick doesn't always mean better because if you're doing a thorough workup, you'll be able to have time to discuss the owner about allergies, for instance, or about dental care, or about, you know, actual real prophylactic medicine and not just reactive medicine. And I think that's a really important thing.

And I think there is a small shift in that direction of like, oh, okay. How can we look at this for, well, at least that's how I practice a lot of my consult consults is that I will actually look at people and talk to 'em about everything in a holistic manner and not just kind of, okay, it does vomiting thing, here's some probiotics.

Go and like, you know, I want to kind of solve the solution, the whole thing. We could work this out. It could be this and we could do this. And probably that's a bit more like a new grad approach. I think the worry is that when new guards start, sometimes you get bogged down by information and you have so much information going through your brain that your differential diagnostics start becoming so off kilter.

So you are hearing hooves and thinking giraffes, not even zebras, you know what I mean? Like, you know, so it's like, okay, you are so off kilter. Like it's like, oh my God, this dog has vomiting and diarrhea. Oh, and uh, nystagmus. So there is a space occupying lesion inside the brain, which is traveled down the spine and therefore the dog is incontinent.

And you're like, whoa. How did you get there? Like, yeah, relax, like, let's, let's just work. So normally, so I think for new grad there is a big thing of. Having the support. So having the sounding board like people to bounce back your ideas off of, 'cause I think you guys need that. Just that kind of like, who can I come to?
This is my next consult, or what should I be expecting or what could I possibly be doing? Um, and I think that's a good thing for new guys to have. And then I would say it's just using the textbooks to help you, having that methodic reasoning to go through it. And then at the beginning it's slow and then afterwards you kind of build uped your confidence, you know the right questions to answer instead of walking yourself down the path and asking the wrong questions.

And then you end up taking too long. Uh, and then there's just efficiency, like just streamlining your efficiency. So just understanding that, okay. Yeah, like if I have this consult coming up next, maybe I should prepare these things first. For me, when I have vaccinations, I'll prep the vaccinations and draw them up first and then be ready so that when they come in, I'm talking to them.

And then as I'm talking to them. Quick jab with the vaccination and then we're already already done, you know? So it is that kind of thing that helps. And then having templates for your notes is always a helpful thing, although now we've got a lot of AI scribes and, and, and things that can scribe notes in lectures and things are moving that way, so maybe a bit quicker.

So, yeah, and, and it's definitely advocating for yourself as well, because you do need to, hopefully you're in a practice that supports you, but advocating. 'cause I remember being like, I can't do this in 10 minutes. I can't do a dog of a broken leg in 10 minutes if it's allergies. I can't do this in, in 10 seconds.

Like I need to be able to tell somebody the whole process as to why this is happening and I need to give them that information. So at no point rushing me and a lot of time, even me as a locum now, then sometimes I will take my time. I can be quick when I need to be quick and that's fine. But when I see that certain patients need care or need more attention or clients need care or attention, I'm gonna take my time and anybody in the waiting room can complain.

But at the end of the day, if they're seeing me, they know they're gonna get the exact same treatment. Like, everybody's gonna get their time. I'm not rushing anybody out of the room. I need to make sure that you are getting your 60 pounds worth or your 55. I need to listen to your, your complaints and, and try and actually give you that service.

So,

and especially now when consults and vet care, the costs are rising. It might be the only consult and the only time you see that client this year is for like the annual vaccine or the annual check if, if you're lucky. So doing a thorough tech and being allowed that time to go, oh, well maybe in the next six months we should be looking at a dental or you know, your cat's getting a bit older.

We need to have a quick chat about CKD, diabetes. What kind of things that you might be looking for with those. And actually being able to form that relationship with clients that GP is based on.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's super important because. We need to be able to form that relationship. And I need to listen to Mrs. Johnson's concerns about Fluffy and, and, and break down to her why I think this is important and why she needs to get check it and Elise mention it to her. Because I think what happens a lot of time in GP because people are so rushed for time, is that they might see stuff but might actually mention it, but then that stuff is reflected in the clinical notes.

So they'll write it down in the clinical notes that, oh, fluffy has X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z. So they come for the next consult. You're like, oh, fluffy has dental disease. Oh, the vet never told me, oh, this mass on fluffy shoulder probably needs to come off. Oh, the vet never said that because they were run a time and they were too busy doing everything else.

Whereas if we just take our time and we were like, okay, well this is this, this is that. It's just a soft lump. We should probably sample this. This needs to come in. Maybe we should do blood tests. Maybe we should do, um, blood pressure, those sorts of things where you're actually communicating to them.

'cause most of the time people are coming to, coming to the vets because they're worried about their pet's help. So if you at least flag things to them, then they'll happily work things up. Or even if it has to take, they'll work it up in a later date. But you need to be able to tell them. What's going on?

Yeah. How would you approach a really emotional consult or someone coming in when they're just beside themselves, they're panicked, they're upset, that kind of thing. How, how do you handle those consults?

It takes a lot of intuition. I think it takes a, it takes a high EQ to be able to deal with those situations.
'cause sometimes you can get it right and sometimes you can get it wrong. And like, like human beings, naturally we all present emotions in different ways and different manners and different things can be said to diffuse situations, but might not necessarily land the same way. And I've had, even though I might consider myself good at diffusing situations and, and taking time with that person and being considerate and empathetic of that person's emotions, I know sometimes full world that they might not have landed how they wanted to land or because they're feeling anxious or pressured in a situation.

They might not hear how I'm saying it in the way that I'm saying. So there's sometimes there's things you can do and there's some things that is way outta your control. But I think a big thing whenever things are emotional is to try and take time. Consider what you might be saying quite thoughtfully.

Be very intentful of the words that you're using, especially because like some words can trigger more of an emotional response in people than others. So, you know, like, like I'm always guided about how I use the word cancer because I know that the moment I say the word cancer to somebody, their mind kind of strays and they're no longer listening to me or paying attention.

And I'll explain the cancerous process sometimes and I'll explain it a bit more gently and then eventually land on the word cancer. Um, if I'm feel that they're not really quite grasping it. But stuff like that, it's just like, that's part of the bedside manner in terms instead of just blurting out, oh your dog's dying, or your dog has this, or your dog has this and this isn't a great prognosis.

And you know, you have to be gentle and consider what they could be processing and how, how they're processing their emotions and also what they're going through sometimes. 'cause we don't know. And a lot of the time, sometimes when pets are in the worst conditions. It just so happens that it might be coming at the worst time of somebody's life, or the most inconvenient time of somebody's life as well.

Yeah. And they're going through stuff and like it's because they're going through stuff that they might have missed up with their pet, or sometimes there's so many times in practice where I've been like, it rains, it pauses. You know, they might have just lost somebody and because they're going through grief, they've not seen something going on with their pet.

And then some girl's going through their pit, like in a, in a double whammy, and then it doesn't come across. They don't feel as stoic as they might want to be when they're in the concert with you. So I think there's a lot of compassion that has to go into it when you're dealing with a lot of clients.

Minorities in Vet Med

I wanna move on and talk about black and minority representation in VetMed. Think VetMed is a quite notoriously white profession. I think the stats in the UK are currently that around 3% of veterinarians are from a minority background. With 97% being white. And I think in the US it's something around 12%.
So it's a bit higher, but still a huge minority. What has your experience been as a black veterinarian?
Do you know what? It's super funny because I never forget what a friend told to me. Uh, a black friend actually. So she works in the uk and I remember she was, she's a lot more senior than me actually.

And I remember her telling me, 'cause I'm in a lot of panels and things about like, I, ethnic diversity and, and uh, minority representation within brand new medicine. And I've done a lot of talks and stuff like that. And she messaged me one time, she's like, it's so interesting to me that you have to talk about all this diversity.
'cause where she's from, she's from Jamaica and she's like, you have to talk about all this diversity because in Jamaica the only vets I ever worked with were black. Like, because everybody was black. Because it's, you know, because it's a black populated country. Um, and it's something that we're doing in the uk so it's not like necessarily that, um.

There aren't any black vets, but in the UK it's just like this low representation, but it also is reflective of the population as well in a sense of, you know, that's why we have minorities or yeah, some people are, they say the global, global majority if like, you know, but we're still a minority within England and America.
My experience is a black vet. It's, there's a lot of nuance. I think, I hate, there's a lot of nuance when it comes to practicing as an ethnic minority because you have different interactions on a daily basis, but that's like the same interactions that you would go through on a daily basis of life. You know, just microaggressions where people wanna pronounce your name right, or where people first opinions of you are different and handling those situations.

I mean, there can be overt racism and then there can be subtle things like microaggression and it feels like a death by a thousand cuts. But that's like a, that's like a common theme throughout workplaces, you know, as, as a minority, I mean, you get. Depending on where you're working, you can get a lot of ignorant comments, whether people are talking about their pets, pets not liking a certain race, but then the pet just seems absolutely fine.

So you obviously know that's come from the owner, but also comes up in a higher up setting for like, you know, I remember confronting corporates right at the beginning. Like, so what is your policy if a client is racist to me? 'cause they had no policy on like clients being racist to me in consult. And then they continue to see that client and it's like, so how do you stand for this?

So what you just gonna keep taking their money even though they just abused me in the consult room. Like
not supporting your staff.

Yeah. So why would I feel like I'm ready to work in this kind of environment, you know? Yeah. So, um, and I feel like a lot of that has changed slowly, especially like the past few years because a lot more people are becoming more and more aware of things, but it is still more of the same and you know, sometimes you just think that it's, it's just down to a lot of people, especially people in the of power just to do the work.
To do the external reading, the necessary reading in order to help push these things and make sure they're not an issue anymore and listen to the right voices as well. So, yeah.

Yeah. Like you say, it's about the representation and that's not necessarily represented enough in VetMed. How has the lack of representation affected you and and other people in a similar position?

I guess there's one side of like, in terms of lack of representation, it means that we always go to the same voices in order to hear their opinions on representation. So for instance, I will get tapped up a lot maybe 'cause I'm a prominent person yet Ben, 'cause I'm a prominent person, that I will get asked a lot to comment on Lenasia.

But there's more voices than just my own, you know? So that's one side of it, like, you know, there are more voices than just my own. You don't need to hear just my voice, you know? But there are more voices and um, I guess it's promoting these voices. I think there's also that thing of when I see students coming up, a lot of them will look towards me, maybe 'cause I'm a prominent person as well.

They will have looked towards me. And so it's that kind of responsibility of that. Okay, well let me help guide you or, or show you how to navigate some of these things. If I can lend a hand, I would want to lend a hand. And then from a personal standpoint, I guess it's kind of like representation. Help me push my goals and ambitions because you know, before I graduated I worked with, uh, vets in America, especially vets in America.

And it was a black vet who owned his own hospital, who owns own specialist practice and was doing really well. And seeing him do it was what pushed me and drove me that, oh, I can do this. It is still possible within this field. 'cause sometimes I think if there isn't representation within the field, you get worried about the fact that people might not understand your difficulties or have the same difficulties or understand where you are coming from or, and also there's a, there's a, there's a much more human aspect of it, like, you know, relating with clients from different communities.

It's just easier when you're from certain backgrounds. You know, for instance, like, you know, you, you, it just happened because you can share culture so you can understand what somebody means or, you know, you can share certain experiences, you know, you see. So, and, and that helps. And I think the, the thing about diversity and representation, it's not like, 'cause we're trying to force the diversity, but more so when we have diverse thought, like it just only aids for the better for everybody.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's what pushes everything forward. The more we consider more groups, the more we push everything forward and we don't leave certain groups behind. So,

yeah. I know you say it negatively impacts our profession and our ability as a whole to serve the public when we don't have a diverse enough workforce that can understand those different perspectives and different clients because they just can't relate to them.

I, I think it can almost close off a section of the general public. And they maybe don't want to come to the vet with a certain problem because they know that people won't understand. And having those different perspectives really helps us as a profession.

I think people understanding it slowly better with, like, better with gender.

I think gender's always been like a, a thing that people might understand it a lot better, so can, can see quite clear differences with gender sometimes. And it, it, it applies quite similarly to race. Like there is one side of the relational ability to translate to clients and, and understand and hear voices of clients that similar and look like you and act like you and share backgrounds of you.

But then it's also just the fact that being raised differently with a different set of privilege privileges or a different set of exposure, a different upbringing, changes how you think and changes how you problem solve It allows you to consider other problems that other people might not necessarily have thought of.
Because of that, you now have added value that you can contribute to a workforce. So it's the same way that we consider mothers with maternity care, or we might consider that some people need, if we're talking about neurodivergence or we're talking about disabilities and, and overstimulation that, okay, actually I hear that these sounds might overstimulate you.

So you might need a break room to, in order to feel comfortable or if you're a Muslim, you might need time in order to take prayer time or, or for fasting or you know, so all these different, all these different things of where it's like, okay, well actually we can cater this and we can, we can make policy so that you also feel like you belong within the workforce.

Yeah.

So feel outside of it.

What do you think that we should be doing better as a profession to cater to that?

That's difficult. Uh, I think there has to be a lot of confrontation within the profession. There has to be a lot of like, okay, we have done this in an archaic way, or we we doing this in an archaic way and we can change.

I think there has to be a lot of flexibility because I think sometimes with vet medicine we can be a little bit rigid with how we approach things. It can be like, oh, we've always done it this way. There's no need for this to change. Whereas like if we open up ourselves to criticism, but also like feedback, then maybe we can change a little bit and a little bit of change anybody, but makes people feel more accepted then be important to me.

Do you find it tiring being a representative and being a very vocal person in this issue and in this problem in VetMed? Do you find it can get quite draining or is it just something that you find you know, really fulfilling and that motivates you?

It depends. It really does depend on the bandwidth that I'm working at that month.

Because if it's something where you're constantly always doing it back to back, okay, yeah, it can feel like quite like tiring and when you feel, I think tiring aspect comes from when you. When you're trying to convey perspective, but nobody's actually really listening or understanding, which I don't think is the response that I get most of the time.

I think most of the time I'm having quite reasonable and productive conversations. I think I find it quite, um, pleasurable to be able to discuss things on a deeper level and discuss the nuance of things. So I quite enjoy that sort of aspect. But I find what I find tiring is that people might not necessarily have the, um, maybe let's say the bandwidth to be able to discuss it or the breadth to be able to discuss it at that level.

And so there's no point if, if you are meeting me here and I'm, I'm down here, then there's no, there's, you know, there's no point in, in us engaging if, if we're talking about debt, that can be frustrating. But I think in general, I do enjoy it. Like, I do enjoy being able to talk about these subjects and bring it to light where I can, because by no means, like, it's just part of what comes with, with being present in the space, you know?

So you just,

yeah.

Is, is part of it. And I don't think I do it in a way that overextends myself. I think I've quite, I think over the years I've learned my boundaries and things like that of what I can do and what I can't do. I think I have some friends that are a lot more, uh, forward in their approach and can be a lot more like, you know, in it.
And that might be what's in their bandwidth or what's within their wherewithal, you know, and as kudo to them, I think everybody just fights, fights at different levels. So

Boundaries & Mindsets

I think that comes in really nicely to my next question. I'm gonna talk about, you know, in such an emotionally challenging and difficult profession, how do you make sure that you look after yourself?
Yeah. How do you make sure you look after yourself? I think you, I think it's a constant thing that I remind myself in daily life is just to fill my cup.

When I burnt out, I took time off to figure out what fill my cup, and I took like four, five months off of work. Just kind of spent it just doing stuff that I enjoy, whether traveling, whether it's eating, going to museums, reading, just stopping time a little bit, um, I'd save money and I kind of just took that time away.

And I think it's really important to know when you're not filling your cup anymore or finding ways to fill your cup. Yeah, I think a big thing about self-care is not neglecting it. I, I've heard somewhere, I think it was on a podcast somewhere once, where a lot of us self-sabotage in the ways that we like to fill our up.

So if you're somebody that's normally a people person, you're self-sabotage to be withdrawn from people. And if you're somebody that's normally like, you know, talkative or whatever it may be, you might just go quiet. Or if it's somebody that likes to give a lot of stuff, you stop giving all a sudden and you start to notice it.

So I think it's very, very in tune with myself and calling out those behaviors, calling out those emotions early so that I can be like, okay, I need to fill my cup, actually, I, and, and not putting the blame on anybody else but myself. I mean, obviously they can be external blame, but knowing that I have the power within myself to be able to make a difference, I think is very important.

And being really like, okay, no, actually I can go and fill my cup. Like, you know, yes, this person might have disgruntled me, but let me just come and operate from a plate of happiness and, and, and, and fill my cup in another way and don't have to worry about that person anymore.

Yeah.

So that's me.

What are the boundaries that you've kind of put in for you that have had the biggest impact on your mental wellbeing and health?

Well, to knowing when to say no, I think, I think knowing when to say no, and also understanding that not everything has to be a matter of urgency. I think I'm very much a person, that's all or nothing. And I still am to this day, very much all or nothing. So I can be in something and I'll be in it and a hundred percent focused.

It gets all of my focus, but then I start lose concentration on my things. And I still find difficulty trying to weed myself off of that behavior. 'cause that can, that totalitarian behavior could be very, um, uh, difficult. To work with sometimes. 'cause it can be exhausting at times. But I think what's most important to me is knowing my boundaries and knowing that no, nothing's going to the world, aren't gonna stop if I send this email today and you know, I cannot send this email today.

And you know, sometimes some things you do have to say no to and you do have to turn away from. And sometimes I just can't do this shift, you know? And being okay with that I think is really important.

Yeah. I saw, was it last year after you did the High Rocks or while you're doing a High Rocks, you broke your leg and you had all of that recovery time and all of that time away from, I assume you've spoken about exercising, so something that brings you a lot of joy and is a big part of your life.

And then before when we were talking, you also said about being rejected from unis in the UK and, and facing that rejection. How do you overcome. These setbacks. And do you think you have a good mindset when it comes to those events?

I'm a wildly optimistic person. Um, it's hard when you're in the middle of those events to be optimistic and I think when you're going through difficult times, it's difficult to be optimistic because I am a faithful person, a religious person.

A lot of time I turn to my faith. Um, and in the know of just like it does get better and just being able to ride that out 'cause it does get better, I think that helps as well. But just like kind of of of understanding that sometimes these things happen and it's not necessarily like the end of the world because these things have happened.

You can still go forward, you still have another day, you still have breath in your lungs. You can still go one more, you know, you can still go again. And like when I broke my leg, yes it was very upsetting and yes, there was a lot of like frustration I think more than anything. But you channel it into, I think a big thing as well for me is channeling frustration and challenge it challenging any difficult emotions I have.

Into things that will build me up or things that I can, I can use to invest in myself. So whether it's that like, you know, I broke my leg, I couldn't move, so then, you know, I make more videos and that builds my page and keeps me occupied. Or I read more and 'cause I read more, I learn more, or I find other ways to keep myself stimulated and occupied.

So it's that kind of thing. And even with the rejection, it's like, okay, well rejection's not the end of the world, but how do I pivot, take the gap year, whatever. So it's constantly knowing that there are options for you. It's not like there's, there's a dead end. You can always make options. You always have a choice.

You always a choice. It's not like there's no choice. And I think that's one thing that we're blessed with is the fact that we do have a choice of some sort. So it's kind of like, okay, what choice can I make now? And how can that choice better serve me? Is it really important for me

when one door closes another opens?

So looking for those opportunities, like you say, you can read more or you can do like mental stimulation if you can't do more physical things. But then yeah, it's looking for the opportunities and not getting kind of bogged down in the. Depressive mindset.

I mean that like, you know, like, like you said, well not close another door open, but that door that open might be way down the corridor and you might not be able to see it and you might not know that it's open, but you might have to walk for like another 10 minutes until you see that door.

Yeah, fine. Like, you know, and I think being able to ride out the tough times is just important as enjoying the good times. So just riding out that, that kind of like, this sucks, but knowing that, you know what, sometimes things don't suck forever. You know, just having the optimism that, okay, well maybe tomorrow will be better.

And that might just be the tiniest bit. And I guess again, another thing is just appreciating, being appreciative for what you do have and for what you have got. Because there's a lot of people without what you have and just being appreciative for them, you know? And just being like, okay, well at least I've got this and I can keep going.

I can keep doing this. I've still got, you know, my hands, I've still got my brain, I've still got my eyes, you know? So all those things help you have a gratitude practice.

Yes. I mean, I'm just grateful in general. I, I'm just grateful in general. I mean, it's just who I'm,
yeah, I mean, like, it is how, it's how I was raised, especially like through faith.

Through faith as well. Like people talk about a lot of like journaling and gratitude and stuff like that. But when I was younger, like when I was taught hard to pray, a lot of things are praying was like, you know, you say what you're thankful for first you pray for other people. And then finally before that, after all of that, you pray for yourself and you know, it, it's just kind of like how I've, it's how I've been hardwired in my life to like give thanks for all the stuff that I do have.

Because Dunton stuff is just from me alone. It's from the people in my life and all that surround me. So I'm, I'm very thankful for what I have. And then I look out to other people what could they possibly need and trying to help other people. And then finally I reflect back on myself of like, okay, what does probably need and what is it?

And you know, through life as well, again, through burning out, I've known to put myself first in some situations, but again, it's just very much coming from a sense of gratitude.

Yeah. Do you think. That kind of perspective and attitude that's clearly like central to your life. Do you think being a vet is a reflection of that mindset?

Yeah, most likely altruistic out on life and helping people, like, you know, for me that's a, that's a purpose within my life. And a lot of people talk about what their purposes are in life and how they find their purposes. And I think for me, I'm very driven by the fact that I can find purpose in helping people.
I really enjoy that. So I'm, I'm happy to live a life of service like that is something that I quite enjoy and giving helps me fill my cup. So being able to help other people, help animals, help families or whatever it may be. It, it is something that does make me feel quite fulfilled. So like why would I stop sort of thing.
And I think that just links into the nature of how I was raised. And yeah, there could be. Elements where you might want, might not wanna go overboard. So you don't wanna, people please to an extent where you are not serving yourself. But there is something in that life where I do enjoy helping people. So, yeah.
Yeah. And gives psych, gives a purpose.

Dentistry!

Before we finish with some questions, I actually want to talk more about your dentistry and oral surgery. Is it, what is it, general practitioner certificate?

Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. And I've just, I've just registered for the advanced practitioner, which is gonna be a bane of my life this year as well.

There's more things to add on my plate, but yeah.

Dicing. What made you wanna do it?

Um, actually I wanted to do soft tissue and orthopedics, but I knew that that system took about like three years to complete because of the caseload. And it's hard to get a caseload as a locum. And then she only took a year, and I've always loved dentistry and I was like, you know what?

I can do this in a year. And I, I'm pretty sure I can get that caseload and I love doing dental work so. Why not just do it now? And I just love the idea of dentistry. Like I love it. Like, and I think also with veterinary medicine, because we're evolving, I think more and more people are starting to see the value in dentistry and understanding.

One, it's a great driver for sales inside of practice and it has got its own worth if you're doing it correctly and doing it the right way and with the right equipment. But also like in terms of overall health for, for our pets, it's almost incomparable how great it is for our pet's health because there's so many pets, like one in three pets have dental disease.

So you are treating that. And if we're talking about prophylactic, that's probably like one of the most important prophylactic things you could do is making sure that their teeth are okay. Because how many times do we see the seven or 8-year-old dog who've got horrendous teeth and then they get to like 12, 14, they've got kidney disease and they've got even worse teeth and.

It's like, okay, what do we do now? Do we do the teeth or do we leave them to go Because they might not be again, anesthetic. And it's like, no, we keep go. We keep looking after their teeth because if we look after their teeth, they might even live even longer. So

yeah,

so it is that kind of thing of like, okay, we can actually really make such a big difference with good dentistry.
And I, there's again, that attraction of the skill. It takes a lot of skill to be a really good dentist and doing it right. And I'm attracted to like root canals and things like that as well. And I really wanna get down that, go down that path as well. And so there is that aspect of it. And not to mention that I have a lot of friends that are, are human dentists and so working with them or talking with them about cases and stuff like that, it's always so fun.

And I was in uni surrounded by a lot of them as well. So that probably is what skewed my interesting dentistry.

Yeah, I feel like dentistry's one of those areas of vet me where people either absolutely love it or never want to do a dental again. I, I see so many. Vets that are like if a dental's on the books that palm it off to someone else.

How are you approaching your dental cases? Especially when it's something where, you know, if it's prophylactic and the owner can't necessarily see a, a problem Right now, how are you getting owners to get on board with the prophylactic care and keeping on top of, of dental health?

Yeah, it's just gaps in education.

I think all of it, all of it really is just gaps in knowledge and gaps in education. I think because math wasn't necessarily always looked at. That's why a lot of it don't necessarily like it as much because they haven't spent the time to understand how important this is or the time to understand how to explain it.

Like it's pretty easy to explain how bad a tooth is because everybody, every human has teeth and can relate to some sort of dental disease. You know, you've got a hole in your tooth, you need fillings or you've got a toothache. Everybody knows how sore a toothache is and for people to think that. Because he's eating it means that he's not in pain or because he's got a broken tooth and it doesn't look like it's pouring with puss, we should just leave it in there.

Yeah. You know, once you explain it to people, they're like, oh, I didn't know that. Like, you know, once you explain that this tooth is broken, the the pule is com compromised, this can lead to sepsis, this needs to come out or this is probably causing in pain. And the thing is again, it's like, again, it's information, it's lack of information.

'cause a lot of people, they think their dog is fine, but when you give them the information they realize actually my dog is not fine. So you talk about eating and you talk about like how, oh yeah, my dog's eating still, but I'm like, have you noticed how he's eating? Is he leaning to the side when he eats?

Is he chewing on one side of his mouth? Is he constantly dropping food? Then they're like, oh yeah, he does do that sometimes. But I just thought it was, oh yeah. Well then your dog's probably got dental pain. Is he constantly licking his lips? Oh well he's probably got periodontitis like, you know, because when was the last time you brushed your teeth and like, it's easy to be able to show people plaque.

Okay, fine. You can show people plaque, inflammation might be a little bit hard to show. Once you get in there and you take x-rays and you are, you are taking pictures whilst the dog is under anesthetic, you can't really argue what you're seeing right there. There's nothing that you can really argue. So it's explained to people that like, if your dog's toe was broken, you wouldn't just be like, oh, okay, well, we'll just wait for it to fall off.

You'd figure out how to treat it. You, you know, you'd say, okay, okay, maybe we need to do this, or maybe we need to put an I in pen or a plate. Same way that if something's screaming you in the face, you, it is just that it's a little bit less obvious. But I think vets and owners, um, we just have a little bit more information that we need to get across to them and explain to them why this is important or why this is perhaps like, you know, something they need to address sooner rather than later.

I'm not at all like squeamish, but teeth problems. When I'm doing a dental in practice is one of the things that makes me cringe because if I see it, I can almost imagine it on my own teeth and then it just. It always makes me like cringe so much.

Sometimes you get like the really horrible cases where it's like a, like an 18-year-old Jack Russell or Shihtzu where he never had a dunk before and it's like filled with like cases passing with bits of hair and grass and, and you're like, how in hell was this dog eating?

Like what? Yeah. Everything's like wobbly little tic-tacs in there and you're like, how is this possible? And how did nobody smell this? I've had cases where I've had to like double mask up because the smell of the past was like, so, and I'm like, how is this? Like how are you like, you know, people are saying, oh, hey, hey, fluffy and letting the dog lick their face and this dog's mouth is horrendous.

Like, how are you not noticing this?

Yeah.

But they're like, oh yeah,

what drift out? I used put like tiger balm hair. I had a couple of, yeah, really bad dentals. And then the next time I went into one that I knew was gonna, it was a Greyhound and I think this dog came out with about four teeth left. But yeah, we had uh, like just kept reapplying tiger bomb under our nose that you just could smell as all you could smell.

Greyhound ones are always tough on the wrists as well, like, you know, awful. The bleeding afterwards. 'cause Greyhound always have some sort of bleeding afterwards. Always the, it's the actual like elevating and luxating them out. Oh gosh. Or how they respond to the anesthetic as well. 'cause we know they're not always as great with the opioids.

Yeah. Yeah. So what are your top three tips for all vets or new grads that people should know when they're doing dentistry?

The right equipment. The right equipment. I cannot emphasize the right equipment at all. Like understanding your equipment. I think that's like any surgery. You wanna know what your equipment is.
Are you using a retractor? What retractor are you using? Are you using luxate? What luxate are you using? What elevators are you using? Are you using a perio elevator? Is it winged elevators? Do you have like, you know, like the sharpness of um, as well, you know, what scalpel blade you using? What suture material are you using?

Get really acquainted with what you're using. What kind of birds are you using? Are you using diamond? Are you using rubber ball birds? Are you using, you know, what, what, what is it? Is it a fine bur? Is that more of a harsh also even in terms of like polish as well? Is it like a coarse grit or is it a fine grit?

Knowing what you're using and knowing your equipment is super helpful because once you know your equipment, you know how to use it instead of just poking pointy things in there and hoping for the best. And that's how roots Snapp, right? Understanding that method is, is super helpful. So that's my number one tip I think is understanding your equipment.

Think two, sometimes magnification, lighting helps a lot. So, I mean, I use loops when I, when I do mine, and that's super helpful. But magnification lighting also helps so you can actually visualize what you're doing. And that's similar with like knowing your anatomy. And then I'd say my third tip would be pre and post radiographs, I'd say.

I'd say So if you have the capacity to take X-rays, take the X-rays and take them after as well as before, because you take 'em after, then you can kind of prove no liability and that you've taken out everything that you need to take out. So it is a really important, but it's also giving yourself the right amount of time to be able to do those things.

But yeah, pre and post radiographs are important.

You've had such an incredible career in such a short timeframe so far.

Thank you.

But thank you. Where do you see it going in the next 10 years?

Well, 10 years man. 10 years as Katie. I mean, what I'm seven years in now. Um, in 10 years is cozy. I do want to be practicing. Uh, I have some, like, you know, there are bits of me that I want to do and, and free time will reveal it, but I just wanna keep doing what I'm doing.

Just being able to educate the public, educate people, form relationships with people getting better at surgery. Yeah. Be able to cover more breadth of stuff. Hopefully be specialist in dentistry by that point. Um, hopefully maybe starting specialism in surgery, but just like building the skills like in infinity stones.
Yeah. Like I want to be good at surgery, I wanna be good at imaging, I wanna be good at all those things. Just, and it's more so, so that I can provide a really good service. And not necessarily just because I wanna study more, but more, I just really like, I really enjoy being a vet. Like I love being a vet, so why not just keep getting better at it?

And the idea is that I wanna be able to do this career for like 40, 50 years. How old am I? Yeah, maybe 40, 50 years. So, yeah. So like, yeah, know, just be able to do that. So, so that's the kind of like the dream. So just finding a PAC in which I can do it. Reason.

Final Questions

I am gonna ask some quickfire questions and then we're gonna finish with two final questions that I ask all of our guests. So the first questions I've got are, when you're reading your schedule for the day, what consult always makes you want to get up and leave?

Always get up and leave.

Get up and leave. It is crazy. Get up and leave is crazy, but visibly distressed. I'll be visibly distressed if like my last three consults are all like not doing right. Hasn't seen a vet for like six years or whatever. Yeah. Or like, you know, all these like when, when people do problematic cases, but they're like the last three cons of the day and you only have like 10 minutes to see everything.

Yeah.

That is always really frustrating. I think that's the most frustrating thing for me. Like, you know, yeah, there's not doing, because I'm like, I'm not going home one time.

What is your go-to snack in the clinic?

Oh my gosh. I'm a big fan of buying Percy pigs. So Percy pigs is is an m and s thing. Yeah. I love a Percy.

Oh my god, I so Miss Percy pigs.

Oh, Percy pigs. They're like a soft foam. Sweet. Uh, I've done by shots and I, I love a Percy pig. So a go-to snack, especially if I'm having a stressful day, a go-to snack is a Percy pig. If I'm doing one of my challenges where I've cut sugar out or whatever, then it'd probably just be a pear.

Like yeah. If there is a Percy pig going or a calling a caterpillar, I'm all over it. All over it.

You know what that is. I've not thought about Percy pigs for months, but that's really,

I'm so sorry,

boy back. Oh, that is such a top tier snack. Um, what is your most controversial opinion as a vet?

Wow. My most controversial opinion.

Oh, I'm a man of controversy. If it's quickfire, then I'm gonna be like that vets in the capacity that we are shouldn't exist. But that's like, but you can't

my can't you need to that? No, I don't.

It's basically, it's more so along the roots of like, you know, distribution of knowledge and sharing knowledge so that people can, can triage and treat their pets to a certain extent and then we intervene at a more skilled level.

There is a controversy in how we exist at the moment. I don't think it's necessarily, um, necessary, but that's just a controversial opinion.

No, no, I do agree actually. Um, what is one thing you wish all owners knew about their pet's teeth?
Wow. Do they need to be brushed? I think it's just that simple, that they need to be brushed and it is, and that they're exactly the same anatomy as your own.

So if you're not brushing them, you're not looking after. What are you doing? You know, so if there's one thing that every everyone needs to know about it, you need to look after them. That important?
Or any recommendations for like a good little pet, pet, toothbrush, toothpaste?

Oh my gosh, there's too many.

There's too many. Uh, but I would always say go to the VOHC. So that's the Retina Oral Health Council. You can find a toothbrushes. Toothpaste is there, but it's usually just like, you know, either a finger toothbrush, a baby toothbrush, soft bristle. You can have canine specific toothbrushes. You can have one with three heads.

You can have one with two heads. You can have double winded ones. You can have the finger. You can, there's so many things that you can do. So, yeah. But I always say always brushing over toys and treats and things like that.

Yeah,

brushing is the most important thing, so, yeah.

Nice. What is your most used phrase in the consult room?

My making sense And, or like, does, does that make sense? Because I'll say that after every sentence. Like, does that make sense? Just to check. Um, and is there anything else I can help those, like the two things? Yeah.

And a final quick question is, if you weren't a vet, what would you be doing?

Wow. Um, there's so many things that I would love to do.

There's so many things that I would love to do. In fact, the end of the day I was talking with my girlfriend and I was saying how I wouldn't mind being a cowboy. I never, like, you need to move to America for that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think because I went for a period of watching Yellowstone, like quite obsessively

Oh
yeah.

A few years back. So, um, and I really liked that idea of just living on the, and looking after animals is cool. But yeah, there's so many things I would, I would love to do. But yeah, I think maybe being a cowboy would be pretty cool.

Okay. Before we finish, I have my final two questions that I ask every guest. Yeah. So if you're a new grad again tomorrow, is there anything you would do differently?

I think the best advice that I was given as before I was, before I became a new grad, is work far away from home. So you can make all your own mistakes and then work gradually get closer to home.

So as you get a, as you become a better vet, you're closer to home, but work far away from home. Make all your mistakes far away from home and then come closer. But yeah, I think, uh, I was baptized by fire and I wouldn't have it any other way. 'cause I think that me competent to this day.

Yeah. And if you could give one piece of advice to students and new grads, what would it be?

Persevere. Persevere. It is hard. It is tough, but if you can see it through and know that some of these moments are making you, then you can have a really fulfilling career. But yeah, persevere. But also just, just think about this career as a long stretch of time and not this tiny little bit of time. It's like, you know, it is, it is long time.

Hopefully if you practice it right, you can practice it for a long time. That would be my advice.

Outro

I think that's everything for today's episode, but thank you so, so much for joining us. I really love this chat and I think it's been a really wonderful episode. People are gonna get a lot of. Insight and you've given really great advice and shared a lot of your experience, so thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. It's been very fun.

Yeah, of course. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe, whatever you listen to your podcasts. Share it with friends or colleagues who will enjoy it too. As always, you can find us on Veterinary Vista, on Instagram and TikTok and let us know any topics or people you wanna hear from.

Next, uh, Bo we people find you online,

find my Instagram. You can find me on TikTok. So Instagram is @drbolueso. YouTube is the same name. And on TikTok is also @docboj, D-O-C-B-O-J.

Thank you so much again, and thank you to all of you guys for listening. We'll see you next time.