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In this inspiring episode of the Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader sits down with former CFL player Joe Eppele, who made the bold decision to leave behind a lucrative football career to pursue his true passion for the outdoors. Joe opens up about his transition from professional sports to a life centered on hunting, conservation, and personal fulfillment.
He shares behind-the-scenes stories from his TV career with Wild TV, the unique challenges of filming hunts, and the joys of foraging and mushroom hunting. Joe also discusses the critical work of the Wild Sheep Society of BC, the importance of preserving wildlife, and his vision of blending fatherhood with outdoor adventures as he introduces his son to the wild. Packed with wisdom on resilience, purpose, and living life on your own terms, this episode offers something for everyone—from outdoor enthusiasts to those looking for inspiration in their own life journey.
https://www.instagram.com/joe_eppele https://wildtv.ca/program/THEEDGE https://www.instagram.com/theedgetvshow https://www.wildsheepsociety.com______
Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4
Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U
Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU
Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9
Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W
Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav
Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors
____
00:00 Introduction: Are You Happy with Your Life?
00:46 Exciting Giveaway Announcement ATI SAI Scope - Marathon Watch
01:53 Meet Joe Appel: From Football to the Outdoors
03:45 Joe's Background and Passion for the Outdoors
06:36 Balancing Desk Work and Outdoor Adventures
08:57 Parenting and Outdoor Lifestyle
10:56 The Value of Failure and Resilience
16:21 Transitioning from Football to a New Career
24:24 Challenges and Rewards of Filming Outdoor Shows
30:35 Supportive Partner in Pursuing Passion
31:10 Exploring Onyx Hunt Features
39:46 Challenges of Filming Hunting Shows
47:36 Guided Hunts: Learning from Experts
51:09 Foraging and Mushroom Picking
01:00:36 Future Aspirations and Family
01:02:16 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB
Travis Bader: I've got a
simple question for you.
Are you happy with your life?
Are you passionate about what you do?
Do you wake up each morning,
excited and full of energy?
If the answer is yes, fantastic.
If the answer is no, have you explored
what you can do to change this?
Would you turn your back on a
large sum of money in favor of a
life that aligns with your soul?
In today's podcast, Joe Appel
talks about walking away from the
most lucrative contracts in his
professional football career to pursue
a lifestyle that truly brings him joy.
If you haven't heard yet, you're going
to want to jump on our social media.
As we've teamed up with my favorite
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giving away over 5, 000 in prizes
to one lucky winner up for grabs.
Is this amazing SAI optics one to
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It's first focal plane, a
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Also, this 41mm Arctic Red Maple
Diver's GSAR for marathon watches.
It's robust, striking, and precise.
These are two amazing Canadian
companies making phenomenal products.
You'll also win a Silvercore
merch pack, so check out our
social feed for full details.
You better act fast as this giveaway ends
September 18th at 1159 PM pacific time.
If you can't wait and you want one of
these scopes or watches for yourself.
Silvercore club members received 20
percent off Tenebrex scope covers,
15 percent off SAI optics, 10
percent off tangent theta scopes,
and 10 percent off marathon watches.
Now let's get on with the podcast.
Our guest today is a former CFL player
who's transitioned seamlessly from
the football field to the backcountry
with a passion for sustainable hunting
and a dedication to conservation.
He's made a significant impact,
both on and off the field.
His story is one of resilience,
discipline, and an unwavering
love for the outdoors.
Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Joe Appel.
Travis, thank you so much for having me.
That was quite the introduction.
You built me up pretty high.
I better, uh, I better do my best
here to live up to expectations after
that intro, but I appreciate it.
Travis Bader: I tell you, you're
going to have to perform now.
Well, I mean, we broke.
The Cardinal rule that I usually have
when podcasting guaranteed, whenever I
have a podcast, the best conversation
will happen before I press record
and after I press record, because
everyone's going to be at ease.
Right.
And so usually what I like to do is I
like to sit down and kind of go into a
blind, but what do we do this morning?
We just
came back from, I think, four hours out
on the, out on the ocean, doing some
crabbing and hanging out and naturally.
Two gentlemen such as ourselves could
not stop gabbing the entire time.
So I think we would be hard pressed
to find a single topic that we
haven't already touched on today.
Travis Bader: You know what?
We're going to try and then we're
going to act surprised when we
talk about things that we've
already talked about on the boat.
Oh, I, I think it will still be great.
Cause to like, we were somewhat controlled
in that we cut ourselves off as we
started getting down some interesting
tangents and you were very, you were
far more responsible than I was, I
was like, yeah, let's keep chatting,
Joe, we're drawing a line right here.
Taking a note.
We'll talk about this later.
So I think we, we have a
good foundational knowledge.
It'll be exciting to see
how it plays out this way.
I'm interested.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Yeah, me too.
Well, I mean, I think the
audience will let us know as well.
Some people will have
already known about you.
They will have seen you on wild
TV or seen your show, the edge.
And some people will know about you
through your professional career,
playing football for the CFL.
How would you tell me a little
bit about your background
and we'll play it from there.
Sure.
I'll, uh, I'll try and keep
it somewhat short and sweet.
Um, but yeah, with the outdoor
side of life, I mean, I was born
and raised here in, uh, Bracadale
or Squamish, British Columbia.
Uh, my father was a welder, um, and
then he had a landscaping company.
My mother ran the local
mushroom buying station.
Uh, but we gardened, we fished, we hunted.
That's just what we did year round.
That was my, my primary
passion in my younger years.
Um, and, and, uh, Yeah, I, I just
absolutely love being in the outdoors
and there's not really many places you
get to be where you're exposed to more
of it than somewhere like Squamish.
So I was very fortunate, uh, but as time
went on, um, I grew to be quite large.
I mean, you and I look each other
in the eye, so I'm, I'm a tall man.
I'm six, eight and, uh, I started to kind
of come out of people were like, Oh my
God, this guy has some athletic potential.
So the athletic side of my life
started to take me down a different
path and pulled me away from
the outdoors for a little while.
Um, but taught me a lot
of valuable life lessons.
Um, but yeah, I ended up playing
college ball at Washington State, was
fortunate enough to get drafted in the
CFL, played five years professional
football for the Toronto Argonauts,
won a great cup, that was a blast.
And then I realized my career was getting
to a point where I wasn't passionate about
the sport anymore and I wanted to find
something that I was passionate about.
So, I had made a lot of valuable,
Life connections at that time.
And I stepped away from sports
and I went back to school.
I got my master's, uh, my MBA
marketing and advertising focus
and a little bit of sales in there.
Um, and, uh, started transitioning
into life post athletics.
Um, took on my first role managing Western
Canada for an athletic supplement company.
And I just wasn't happy in that industry.
It was a lot of, Nothing is people that
are, but it just wasn't as pertinent to
my life anymore at that stage because
I've moved out of professional sports.
Um, and I just kept my eyes open for
opportunities in the outdoor world.
And that was my true passion from a
very young age, as mentioned, outdoors
was always my biggest passion.
And I was fortunate enough to
stumble across an opportunity in the
marketing and sales side with wild TV.
And fortunately for me, um, part of that.
Career ended up opening some doors
as well to, to host a show on,
uh, on wild TV, which is the edge.
And I'm now we're filming season six.
So I've been doing it for six years.
It was crazy.
And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's funny.
My, my athletic career was it in my mind
as a child, my athletic professional
athletic career was a more feasible,
reasonable goal, and, uh, you know,
Having a career in the outdoor space
was unreasonable and unattainable.
Um, and here I am fortunate enough to
have lived, you know, a professional
athletic career, and now I'm
living like my true dream of being
able to go out in the mountains
and share my passion with people.
Um, but I still do have to work
a desk job in the background.
So let's, let's be honest about that.
It's not all fun and games.
I do have to do a lot
of desk work as well.
Well, how much desk work do you,
would you say you typically put in?
If I'm not in the bush, I'm good,
you know, eight to 12 hours a day.
This is my little lab.
I have my computer screen,
but I'm doing a lot.
It's a dealing a lot of, um, talking
with companies, planning corporate
campaigns, um, helping them enter the
Canadian space, a lot of different stuff,
a lot of boring things that people would
not be as interested in hearing about.
But.
They don't fire me when fall comes
around and I take a lot of time off
for the hunting and doing all of that.
So it's that, it's that balance where
when I'm home, I'm working basically
full time, like more than full time.
I'm, I'm a hundred
percent invested in that.
But when hunting season rolls around,
if I got to take 10, 14 days off to
go do a, you know, Back countries
don't cheat on, they don't bat an eye,
Travis Bader: you know,
and, and I love it out here.
And I've been looking at the
Squamish area for a while.
It's like, you know, it's kind of nice.
I live in Ladner.
I'm in the downtown ish area.
If I want to get somewhere, I'm
battling traffic for hours to get
there that I'm battling traffic.
I've got to get back.
You've got the back country
right here in your backyard.
Absolutely.
God's country.
You've got a free boat launch
right out here where we
launched our crab traps from.
Um, how does that impact your ability
to do your day job and your desk job?
And obviously there's the benefit that
you can get out of the back country, but.
Do you find there's a constant nag
and pull to, uh, have you outside?
It, it makes it tough
to stay at my desk when I wake up
and the weather conditions are right.
And I'm like, I should be in the mountains
and I know I have to get through a
pitch or a proposal or prepare some
documents or work on something there.
And I'm like, but.
There was a 10 degree temperature
drop last night and we're
getting a black tail, right?
Like maybe I should go hit the mountains
a bit and run some bluffs, but at the
same time, it gives me the ability to
still be here and work consistently.
And then if, if I do need to sneak out for
an evening hunt or go check trail cams or
do something like that, it's, it's doable.
I mean, here we are today, it's noon.
We're back in my office, we've been
out on the water for how long today?
Hanging out for hours.
So that ease of access, it's, it creates
a lot of opportunity where I can, you
know, kill two birds with one stone
in a day, but it definitely creates
that pull where, you know, it's very
tempting to play hooky a little bit.
Travis Bader: No kidding.
And now you've got a, got a young one
running around and it's going to add
this whole different dynamic to where
what's going to be pulling you in your
time, that's, uh, quite the adventure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, having having junior
around, um, is an absolute blast.
It's almost like I get to be exposed
to the outdoors for the first time
again, getting to see it all through
his eyes and share those experiences.
It takes me back through my childhood,
so I get to relive that excitement and
Having that be your child and knowing
and seeing him gain that appreciation
for the outdoors, um, is really
special, but yeah, it definitely is a
pull on time where before going away
on a hunt, like a 10, 14 day hunt,
I could tell my wife, I have to go.
This is part of what I'm doing.
She understands it a lot
more than my son understands.
He wants to jump in the truck,
wants to go hunting with dad.
That's a challenge.
That's going to be a hard one for sure.
Travis Bader: So what happens if he
grows up to be a six foot eight giant?
Then I don't have to pack my
moose out of the chicken carcass.
That'll be great.
Would you encourage him
to go down the same route?
Do professional football.
Would you encourage him to
go to professional sports?
Cause you know, we, we went
to the same high school.
It turns out I got in because I was a big
guy and I remember it was coach Del Monte
and he's waiting down at the admissions
office down below and I'd written
my test and I walk on in and I, I'm
getting ready to go and return my test.
And I'm feeling pretty good.
Like I wrote it well, and he stops
and he says, Trav, hold on a second.
Um, do you play ball?
I said, well, I mean, I've
played football before, right?
And he says, well, will you
play football for our school?
I'm like, I don't know, maybe, right?
He's like, hold on.
I'm going to cut to the chase.
If you play football for our school.
I'll make sure that this
test gets in the right hands.
I'm like, I'll play football for
the school and I'll get on through.
So, um, but my heart wasn't in it.
My heart was not in that sort of
road, even though I was built for it.
What would you tell your son?
So
I will absolutely.
Motivate or push my son to get
into something where he can lose.
That's what I want him to do.
So I don't care if it's football.
I mean, if he's smart, I'll tell him
not to play football because I've
done a lot of damage to my body.
I've had three reconstructive shoulders.
Like this is as hard as high as
I can lift my arm to the side.
I can't externally rotate.
They've been wanting to do a shoulder
replacement since my mid twenties.
I have a herniated C5 C6 slowly
causing my hands to go numb.
I had a whole bunch of surgeries.
It's a mess, but I learned
so many valuable life lessons
through my athletic career.
And it.
I was mentioning earlier, it
built me up to be at a place
where I had such a platform.
It created these opportunities
for the outdoors.
I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today
if it wasn't for the life lessons I've
learned, the academic career, my athletics
provided me, all of those types of things.
Put me in the situation.
I am today.
My original plan was to work construction.
I was working for Peter Kiewit redoing
the highway because we, we had the
Olympic bid and that's what I would
have been doing and nothing against that
career, but my life changed completely
because of the doors, my athletics.
Opened up for me.
Right.
So, and, and I think it's important, you
know, going to a sport where you learn how
to lose face, those moments where you, you
really want to win in the game, or you are
the reason the team loses and you have to
deal with that heartbreak that motivates
you to want to get better and improve.
And I think those are some of the
biggest life lessons you can learn.
So, um, one of my biggest things, I don't
care if it's ping pong, if it's bad,
like whatever it could be competitive
knitting for all I care, if he gets in
something where he can get his hopes up.
Work hard, have his heart broken,
learn to improve, get better.
That's, that's my goal for them.
Travis Bader: That's a piece of the
puzzle that for many years, I think a
lot of people have been overlooking.
I think there are very well meaning
parents out there who want their
child to do well, and this is
why we see eighth place ribbons.
You come in eighth place, but
you still get a ribbon, right?
No ribbons are for the people who win or
the parents will go in and they'll say,
uh, they'll argue with the teacher and
they'll try and get their grades raised.
Yeah.
And they don't realize the disservice that
they're actually doing to an individual.
I think that's why we have safe spaces
now, because people lack the ability
and the resilience that's created
from, from losing there's winners.
There's losers, maybe, maybe a lose
the foot race every single time,
but man, you're a good artist.
Yeah, it
forces you to either want to get
better at your craft, at what
you're working on, or realize maybe
that's not the direction for you.
What else can you excel
at and get better at?
I mean, you know, There's heartbreaks
in life, and as a parent you want to
protect your kid from that, but I think
it's a selfish thing to do, and this is
my opinion, so anybody out there that
has a different opinion, that's your
opinion, but I think it's selfish for
the parent not to understand that's our
burden to take on, and to help guide and
coach your kid how to get through that.
So for me, like the biggest things
that have led to me becoming a
stubborn prick, And makes me somewhat
successful, somewhat, very much your
quotations, somewhat successful in the
back country is I know how to fail.
I know how to push through adversity.
I know how to do all of that because
a lot of my athletic career was around
not succeeding, was around being
big enough, but not good enough.
Oh, we'll keep working on
him because he's so large.
He can't teach size.
But he sucks.
So we'll keep working on him.
I can relate to that.
Exactly.
So then, so then I learned
how to fail, but keep working
to get better, to get better.
Because I was so big, people
were like, he sucks right now.
But if we keep working on him,
keep pushing him in the right
direction, he'll eventually get good.
So I eventually got half decent at sports.
Um, but I learned the value of
failing, the value of getting
back at it and improving.
And then I got to see the benefit
of getting to the other side.
And that's one of the biggest things
is I think nowadays people coddle
because as a parent, you don't want
to see your kid fail because for you,
it's going to make you feel terrible
and you're going to, you, you're going
to, it's going to break your heart.
Travis Bader: Um, that, and I
think a lot of parents put their
own, their own, uh, aspirations,
their own dreams onto their child.
And they.
They lose sight of the fact
that this is their child's life.
And they're, they feel like a
failure if their child fails and
they don't want to, I don't know,
look bad in front of other parents.
Whereas I'm in the same camp as you.
I'd much rather see my kids fall
and get up, fall and get up.
And I, and I wonder, I wonder if that's
just got to do with the fact that I
failed so many damn times as a child
and I can see the benefit to that.
Yeah.
You learn such a
resilience through that.
And, and I think, yeah, there's just
invaluable life lessons that come with
that failure process and understanding
the work and then the pride and the
self confidence that's gained when
you do work through that and you get
through it and you're like, Oh my
God, I'm capable of so much more.
Like, think about hunting.
You go on a hunt day one,
you're successful on that hunt.
You're like, that was a cool hunt.
You don't appreciate it.
You go out, you have a close call,
you miss an animal, you blow a stock,
something happens, you are heartbroken.
You don't stop thinking about it.
You think in your mind, how can I improve?
What can I do to get better?
And you work towards it.
Then when you are successful,
that success is so much sweeter
because you've worked for it.
You've earned it and you
gain that confidence.
You've gained that knowledge.
It didn't just happen.
You earned it.
And I think that leads
to so much more success.
And I think that's.
That's the same across the board through.
Scholastics through athletics, through
Travis Bader: hunting,
through anything you do.
So you're playing pro ball and
you decide at some point, maybe
this isn't the path for me.
What was it that, that pushed you?
Was it injuries?
Was there something burning inside
your heart saying, Hey, I've got to,
I got to move somewhere different.
What was it for you?
It was
good question.
It was, it was kind of a perfect
storm of a lot of different
things happening at the same time.
Um, I had had my.
Second and third shoulder surgery
in a very close period of time.
Um, and I had been picked up by auto in
the expansion draft Toronto Argonauts.
They could protect a
certain amount of people.
They didn't protect me cause I had two
surgeries planned for that off season.
So I ended up getting drafted by
Ottawa and I was going to a new team.
Um, my father, um, during that off
season, tough subject, but he was
diagnosed with brain cancer and ended
up passing that same off season.
So I spent a lot of time, he.
I was by his side through the whole
process, and we had a lot of talks and
talked about, you know, quality of life,
living a dream you want to do, don't
push things you're not passionate about.
He kept saying, we were in Ontario,
he wanted to get back to BC, he
wasn't physically able to travel
anymore, they wouldn't even, you
know, I couldn't buy him a plane
ticket or have anybody fly him.
So he ended up passing in Ontario and
wanted to be back in the mountains, and
there was, there was a lot to that, uh,
I did a lot of soul searching and, and
was able to gain a lot of perspective
through my dad's eyes at that time.
And then I sat in on the CBA negotiations
and I watched how the ownership behind
the CFL talked about the athletes and I
really started feeling like a complete
piece of meat and a cog in the system.
And there was just a few
things that happened.
So surgeries, perspective shift through
my conversations with my father and, and,
and kind of seeing life through a new
light and then seeing how the ownerships.
They talk to you sweet in one way,
but in the CBA negotiations, it's
completely different conversation.
So I took a look back and I was
like, what am I doing with my life?
Am I happy here?
Was not happy.
I was playing a sport that I was good
at, that I was quote unquote billed for.
I was never truly passionate
about football the way I was
passionate about other things
in life, but I was big enough.
So I fit, I fit the, I fit
the puzzle and it worked.
Can't eat size.
Um, so then I looked at myself and
like, well, I have a lot of great
Network connections, a lot of people
that if I could add value back to
them, it would open a lot of doors.
So I walked away from the best CFL
contracts I had in my entire career.
Um, I walked away from them
all and I retired and I.
When I did my GMAT and I got ready
to go back to school and do my MBA.
Travis Bader: What did people say?
Did people look at you and they start
judging and say, what are you doing?
Why are you leaving
these awesome contracts?
You know, for a guy who went and
did really well on his GMAT,
I got called stupid a lot.
I'll tell you that.
Um, yeah, a lot of people
were really questioning, you
know, why I would walk away.
I had worked.
I was getting to the point
again where I'm having my best.
Contracts put on the table in front of me.
And as soon as I started to saying, I was
going to walk away from the sport coaches
were putting way more money on the table
in front of me than they ever did before,
because they're like, he's not begging us.
We're begging him.
Funny how that works.
And still like it got really
tough towards the end.
And I was just like, Nope, not happening.
I'm at a life shift.
I don't have a wife.
I don't have a house.
I don't have mortgage.
I don't have any of these things.
I don't have bills to pay.
This is my time to make a career shift.
And that's what I'm going to do.
So I went back to school.
I got my MBA and, uh,
started looking for what
Travis Bader: was next in my life.
So many people don't recognize
that so many people don't recognize
that point in their life when
it's time to make that shift.
And I think a lot of people look like
they'll look at it, like they're running
away from something as opposed to the
running towards something more desirable.
Um, and, and I think it's.
Difficult when everybody around you is
probably saying like, Holy crow, like give
your head a shake, like what's going on.
Did you find that your circle
of friends started to change?
Did you find that there is social changes?
There was definitely social changes.
Um, I definitely missed being around
such a motivated, driven group
of individuals on a daily basis.
Luckily for me, I had a very good core
group of individuals that were around me.
So.
You know, even though I wasn't on the team
anymore, we stayed in contact and kept
each other motivated, but there was times
for myself where I was, like, I found it
challenging going back to school, paying
your own way through your, your master's
program on a short period of time.
It's challenging.
Um, I had also bought into a gym at the
time and I was restaffing our gym and
doing a whole bunch of like financially,
I was watching my bank account and I
was really questioning my decisions.
Um, And yeah, there was a lot of moments
where I was sweating and I was like,
did I really make the right decision?
But I, I knew I was having a
lot of injuries and I wasn't
passionate about it anymore.
And I wanted to make sure I
stepped away from the sport on
my terms and I did step away.
Are there times where I look back
and maybe I could have squeezed
out a few more years or who
knows what could have happened?
That's fine.
Yes, but I stepped away at a
time where I was happy and.
Went through some rough years with ups
and downs and have to go back to school
and not having that money coming in.
But here I am today living, I'm
fortunate where I can truly say like
I'm living a career that truly aligns
with my true passions, which is,
it's, I feel very lucky to say that.
Travis Bader: So now you take the leap
and you say, I want to be outdoors.
I want to be in the outdoor sphere.
How long did it take to, for you
to move from being a professional
footballer to obviously went to school,
to finding yourself back into the
outdoor sphere where your heart was?
It, it was a little bit less of a direct
translation transition for me actually.
So when I first retired from, uh,
football and I went back to school
for my MBA, I bought into a gym.
I co owned a gym.
So I did the whole like specialist
trainer thing for a while, which worked
out really well just to keep me busy
while I was going through my MBA and
did cover some of the bills there.
Then I contacted a
longtime partner of mine.
Uh, an athletic supplement company
and I told him, I was like, listen,
you guys aren't doing as well.
You should be doing in Western Canada.
I want to get back to Western Canada.
You're going to hire me to
take over that region and I'm
going to bump your numbers up.
And they're like, yeah, you know what?
That's exactly what's going to happen.
So it, it worked out.
I created a position for me with
this company and, um, they believed
in me, I moved out back to BC
and it worked out really well.
I think we more than doubled or tripled
their sales in the area quite well.
And, and, um, it was a ton of
fun and I really appreciated
the opportunity with them.
But I will say that I just.
I thought I was gonna be really
passionate about the industry
because everything else in my life.
So previous to football as well, I was, I
was on the national track and field team.
I was a thrower.
I did shot and hammer.
Right.
Um, so athletic supplements and that side
of things was always really big for me,
but now it was less of a synergy for me.
It wasn't something that
was so big in my life.
So I just, I wasn't in it.
And I just kept saying, I want to look
for something, a new opportunity, see
what else, what other doors might open.
So I saw a posting from wild TV and it
was just this opportunity, basically.
To start working with the network and I
submitted my information and, um, yeah,
it started to create some opportunities.
It was a lot of complications,
definitely undervalued for
what I brought to the table.
Sure.
And again, a big leap, but I had
done it all at a time in my life
where it was okay and I didn't have
these big commitments financially.
So I spoke with my then girlfriend,
now wife, uh, Kristen, and we were
talking about it and she said, yep.
Let's, you know, I'm okay to
be by your side through this.
So I started bottom level with wild TV,
um, doing some hosting on the edge, which
is part of it again, just testing, like.
If you screw up, you're out.
Like if people hate you, you're out.
And that's a lot of pressure
joining a cast of individual
like Steve Ackman, who's had some
amazing success in his career.
Right.
Um, and so that, and then
also the sales opportunity.
So then I was selling marketing
and advertising on the network.
Um, and then slowly over the years, I
just kept my head down and kept grinding.
And now I'm the director of
business development with wild TV.
I get to do a ton of great fun work
with wild TV, cowboy channel, Canada,
RFD TV, uh, the production company
behind it all recoil creative group.
And I'm filming my sixth
season with the show.
Travis Bader: What was it like when he
first stepped in front of the camera?
Did it come natural for you?
The exact opposite.
Yeah.
Tell me about
this one.
I, I am a, I think we
talked about it earlier.
When you're a big guy, you always
stick out and you're very self
conscious because you don't like
being the center of attention.
And I'm the exact, like in school, I
couldn't speak in front of two people.
Like I could not speak in
front of two individuals.
And that's something I
realized I was bad at.
So throughout my athletic career, I
did a lot of, um, talks at schools,
right to, you know, elementary schools.
And I started getting involved
in groups where we go around and
do motivational talks and things.
So I saw it as a weakness
and I developed it.
Um, but still that all aside.
When someone points a camera at you
and says, act natural, you completely
forget like, what is natural again?
Like, what do I do with
Travis Bader: my hands?
Yeah.
We're going to
film your boots.
Walk normally.
You're like, start side skipping.
You're like, I don't know,
I don't know what I'm doing.
You trip over yourself because it's
so awkward and so weird to just
forcefully tell yourself, okay,
be natural, say natural things.
So you're in the moment.
You're like, I have pressure to act
smart, to sound cool, to talk about
things that I don't necessarily
know about because I feel like
I'm supposed Really knowledgeable.
And, uh, one of the best things
I've learned through my career
is it's okay to be wrong.
Not know what you're talking about.
Fess up when you screw up.
Fail, right?
Because I've, Lord knows I've
failed a lot on camera and made
a lot of boneheaded mistakes.
But now I'm at the point where, I
think fortunately for me, I'm at
the point in my career where I've
screwed up so many times and so bad.
I look back, I'm like, well, even
if today goes completely terrible,
it'll never be as bad as that day.
And it makes it way easier.
So it gets easier as you screw up more.
Travis Bader: Do you get
ripped on, on social media
when you make these screw ups?
Do you see it?
Do, do people?
Oh Lord.
Yeah.
I mean, you
definitely, um, you know, as, as soon
as you get in a position where more
people are seeing you and watching
you, uh, yeah, people rip on me.
The funny thing is most of the
time when people are ripping on
me, it's for mistakes that I've
already ripped on myself for.
I've always been the toughest critic.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, people like you, you go on
a hunt, you make a boneheaded mistake.
I can hide that and make it look like
I'm a superhero on camera and I never
make a mistake, but that's not real.
That's not authentic.
So yeah, roll it, put it in the camera.
And sometimes it's because I'm
worrying about what do I need
to say to the camera next?
Are we getting the right angle?
What's happening?
Are we positioning ourselves?
Right.
Whereas I can't be fully
invested at times in the hunt.
So you start thinking about too
many things and you make mistakes.
It happens.
Um, but yeah, you.
It's not all, it's not all roses
and rainbows when it comes to DMS
and messages, you see the odd meme
Travis Bader: rolling around.
That's just part of the
package, part of the package.
You know, I, I'm of the mindset of
you don't have people ripping on you.
If you don't have people
pointing out your flaws, you're
probably not trying hard enough.
You could be doing more.
Exactly.
The more people are.
Yeah, bashing on you, that means more
people are knowing about you, right?
Nobody, what was it, there was an old
saying where, yeah, nobody talks about
being significant or something, right?
So like, it's almost like you feel
excited when people start bashing you
in a weird way, but I mean, heck, I used
to, my favourite thing when I was playing
football was playing away games, and when
we had the most haters in the stands,
because the best way to shut them up.
What's to be sitting there at
halftime and just point at the score.
Well, what were you guys saying earlier?
So I loved going into a noisy
stadium where people were cussing
at you, shouting at you, and then
walking off at the end of the game.
And it's just dead quiet.
I love haters.
I love it.
So that doesn't phase me at all.
It fuels you.
Exactly.
It makes me like, yeah, you
know, and sometimes you do
get great advice from haters.
Like some of these people call you
out and you're like, you know what?
You're right.
You said that in a malicious way.
You wanted to hurt me, but I'm like, Yeah.
That's actually like some of the
best coaching I could have got,
Travis Bader: right.
Oh, I like that.
I got to imagine, so you take something
you love, you make it a business, the
business of what you love can start
to leach some of that enjoyment away.
And if you've got a camera in front
of you and you've got a film crew,
or if you've got to film yourself,
can take you out of the moment.
Do you ever find yourself on hunts
when you're like, man, I sure wish I
didn't have a camera crew here with me.
Yes,
I should probably feel guilty for saying
that, but, um, I love Solo hunting.
One of the biggest things I love about
the outdoors is just your, I call
it like connecting by disconnecting.
So like when you get in tune with
nature, when you sit out there and
you're sitting next to a tree as the
sun rises and nothing knows you're
there and you watch the birds and
the squirrels and all that start to
wake up, you feel this connection.
When a camera's there, it's very
difficult to get that because
you're trying to think of so many
different things at the same time.
Hmm.
I'm getting better at it.
The longer I've been doing this where
I can, it's becoming more natural.
Um, but it definitely does take
away from the hunt at times.
Um, I still hunt.
So we film, I'll film, you
know, six, seven hunts a year.
I come home and there's times
where I come home for a hunt.
And my, my wife definitely
understands that I need that time.
In the bush because that's, I, I go
back, I get grounded and I come home
and I'm a better person and I'll
come home from a hunt sometimes and
things might not have gone the right
way or, you know, it's challenging
or, you know, Whatever it might be.
And my wife looks at me and she's
like, you need to go on out.
Like you need to go into the mountains
for a few days, go on the wine,
decompress, and then come home.
Cause then you're going
to be the Joe we need.
And, and it works well,
but she recognizes it.
And I certainly recognize it because
although I'm hunting and we are, don't
get me wrong, I I'm extremely fortunate
and lucky to be doing what I do, but.
It's not the same hunt experience
as it would be if I didn't have the
camera and we, if we weren't filming.
Travis Bader: I can appreciate that.
And you know, this is the second
time that you've brought up just
in this podcast about your wife and
the support that she's provided.
Yeah.
Um, where do you think you'd be if she
just said, no, I, I don't think this
is a direction we should be going.
You don't have my support on this one.
Fortunately, she's never
put me in that situation.
That's a very challenging
question because, um, like
I absolutely love my wife.
She's been an amazing support for me.
And I think a big part of what works
so well in our relationship and why
we work so well together is because
we support each other so well.
So if she was a type of person
that wasn't supporting me in my
passion, she wouldn't be my wife.
A hundred percent.
So that's a very, Work around
way back at your question, but
that's the truth about it, right?
Is if she was telling me we can't
do this, it's not about living the
lifestyle that makes us both happy here.
She wouldn't be the woman I married.
So, um, you know, we both
agreed to a lifestyle.
It's challenging at times, but
she's fully supportive of what I do.
She gets it, um, and yeah,
it's, it's challenging.
And I, I wouldn't necessarily
be here doing what I'm doing
without her, but I don't think
she'd ever asked me to step away.
Travis Bader: So a few things that
we're talking about on the boat and
I'm like, okay, maybe we should stop
and we can pick it up again here when
we're talking, some of your sponsors,
some of the people that you work with,
I'm genuinely curious about on X Hunt.
I tried it a few years ago in, uh, in
Canada, and I think they were kind of in
their infancy in the, in the Canada side.
Um, Can you tell me about Onyx
Hunt, how you use it, what's good.
What, what are your favorite
pieces of that, that puzzle?
Yeah, I will say Onyx, um, so Dylan,
when, like when they shifted and came
up into Canada, they did a bit of a
test where they were in Alberta and
then they were expanding a little bit
and I think they tried to push in, they
might shoot me for saying this, but I
think they tried to push in a little
too early where they didn't realize some
of the technology and the uses that we
use up here in Canada is very different
than what they use in the U S right.
So we need certain things.
Different for our style of hunting
and our regulations than they had.
So it was a learning experience.
Right.
And, um, I think the early
platforms were not successful.
And then one of the biggest things, so
yes, we, we are partnered with Onyx, but
one of the things I really liked about
them is we started talking early on
about what they wanted to improve on it
and they came to us and said, what are
the things that we need to do to tailor
our services to the Canadian space?
So I really appreciated that about
them and they're working on it.
Are all the changes overnight?
No, but there's constant
development on it.
Um, but I have found a lot
of advantages with regards to
their e scouting opportunities.
Being able to find different areas, set
parameters where you can see certain
hillside gradients, slopes, different
altitude ranges, things like that
you can see over the years I've been
successful in these types of areas.
And then.
Set those parameters and it'll highlight
areas on the map across the province
that might be similar for that.
So like something like
that is really good.
So you can go, okay, drop my pin
every year, and then you can slide
up and down like hillside gradients
or sun exposure, degrees of
exposure, different things like that.
And it'll highlight and you go, okay,
this green patch right here, that's
highlighted here is where I've had a lot
of my success for mule deer or black tail.
And then you can zoom out and
you can see other areas that
are highlighted that same.
Oh, that's cool.
Um, so that, or there's some
features where you can go on.
From here, I can pull it up on my
e scouting on my phone or on my
computer and click on a hillside and
then click a button and it'll show
me based on that elevation, which
other spaces in that area I should
be able to glass from that hillside.
So we've all done it where you're in
the mountains and you go from down
here, it looks like if I hike to that
ridge, I can get there and I'm going
to be able to glass this certain area.
You've got a bowl you want to see.
This app will actually, like their
platform will give you the opportunity
to see, will you be able to see
into that area from this ridge?
Oh, that is cool.
So e scouting has got some
really cool features and those
are just small, small details.
Another thing that I've really found
beneficial that's very easy to get
into is how accurate their tracking is.
So they take a lot of pride in making
sure that real time tracking is very true.
So I've used it, um, bluffed out in
the dark, coming out of hunts, fogged
out, going through swamps and you go
through, and you know, if you go a
few yards, either side of your path,
you're going to be way steep in water,
or you're gonna be falling off a cliff.
Right.
And, uh, I've been in situations
where I can't see anymore.
It's gotten foggy, whatever
it might be, or dark.
And I follow that blue line and
I'm walking past the same rocks.
I walked past on the way in.
Whereas on some of the other apps, cause
I've run a lot of apps over the years.
Sure.
Other apps, you're like,
okay, I'm on the same Ridge.
I'm in the same ballpark, but I
may be 20, 25 yards off my path.
There are times where the
difference in 25 yards means did
you get bluffed out coming out?
And you got to spend an hour backtracking.
Like there's some
sketchy stuff picking up.
So that, and then also I was telling
you, um, for rifle hunting or for archery
hunting, When I shoot in a direction,
you've quite often range that animal and
you have some landmarks in that direction.
So I'll pull up my phone after my shot
and I'll range that spot and then I'll
drop a pin at that exact range with
those landmarks from where I am and more
often than not, when I go to that pin,
Within five or 10 yards again, cause I'm
not the exact spot, but within five or
10 yards of that pin I've dropped, I've
found, you know, where the animal at
point of impact has dug deep and their
footprints are deeper in the ground.
So I've been able to track animals
or start finding blood or, or do
things like that or mark my arrow.
That is so useful.
Cause we've all done it where
you look at a hillside and you're
like, okay, it's by that red tree.
I just got to find that right tree.
You get over there, you
cannot find that red tree.
Not for the life of you.
Bye.
Bye.
You drop a pin and now you go and
you look at your phone, you're like,
if you can trust that spot and go,
okay, if I go right to that pin and.
Holy cow.
I'm standing by the
trunk of that red tree.
That's huge in my opinion.
Travis Bader: So I heard, and
I, I don't know if it's a newer
technology or how it communicates.
Uh, I heard it specifically with a pair
of SIG binos with a laser range finder.
I don't think it was a kilo.
I think it's a different one, but
it'll talk directly with on X and
it will, if you range rate to it
and it'll tell you don't even have
to drop a pin, it'll do it for you.
Sorry, Vortex, but it's, it's a Leopold.
Yeah, my buddy, actually, funny story.
My backup quarterback at Washington
state is high up with them.
So he's, he's pretty high up with them.
He was in sales and now I think he
might be in the product development
side, but, uh, a great guy, but he was
actually telling me about that feature.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Okay.
So I am, I am a vortex guy,
but, uh, so don't shoot me.
Travis Bader: Um, And then of
course your hat there, you're
wearing, how do you pronounce that?
Kee fuh roo?
fah roo.
Maybe.
That's how I say it.
Nobody's told me to shut up.
I, I've looked at their packs.
I've been looking at it for a while.
It's going to be the next pack I get.
Um, what would you suggest?
You're a similar, similar
size to what I'm, I am.
What would you suggest for me?
Um, I've had a lot of success
with Kee fah roo packs.
So I used, I've ran a lot of packs
over the years and I had issues with
hot spots and Issues, getting a heavy
load coming out of the mountain secure.
Um, you know, there's always that
little bit of give in a bag and a
wobble, which makes you so like, if
you're coming down a steep ridge,
any little shifting in that weight
on your back is what's going to lose.
You're going to lose your balance.
Throw an ankle, blow a knee,
something bad's going to happen.
So yes, the faroo bags have been
known to be maybe a pound, pound
and a half heavier when empty.
But my ability to make 150 pounds on
my back or 175 pounds on my back feel
like a hundred pounds or, or 75 pounds.
Mm.
Because it's secure and pulled
tight to your body is where
those backpacks will shine.
Mm.
Whereas those lighter backpacks
are really good, you're gonna
have an, you know, a pound and a
half less when you're going up.
But when you come down.
125 pounds can feel like 200 pounds
because it's like a barrel of water
right on your back that's slopping
and shifting as you're coming down.
So that's personally for
me, for my style of hunt.
That's why I prefer far stuff.
And it's built bomber proof.
Like if you see some of the stuff, I've
put those bags through . I'm a meathead
and I like to push myself and, and
I've loaded my backpack like stupid,
stupid halls and have not been able to
have any of those bags fail on me yet.
But, um, my old favorite for my day hunts
and my day packs was the hellbender.
That easily accessible meat shelf.
Like I had, I was telling you, I
had a full rack of elk ribs, a bag
that had backstraps, tenderloins,
and some neck meat, and then a full
Quarter all strapped in there at once.
Plus my hunting gear, plus my gun,
plus my spotter and my tripod.
And I held that out with the hellbender.
I've taken full DRO, strapped like
cross body in there, my wife's
bear, a full bear in that backpack.
This year I've tested out, um, the manimal
and then the new Absorica is going to
really get the Absorica has got some
new type of pocket options for them.
And it's really versatile from
a day hunt all the way up.
It's what I'm going to use on my
stone sheep hunt this year, or on my,
I should say, goat and caribou hunt.
I'll be in stone sheep country, but I'm
really not planning on shooting a stone.
So we'll see what happens, but it's
good for, it's good for short term
hunts and really good for long term.
And so that's one of the promising ones.
But, um, Yeah, without going too deep
into it, their backpacks, basically, you
can find something that works for any
style, but if you're someone that does
plan on having some big, heavy packouts,
that's where their backpacks really,
truly shine is they can do the work.
They're bomber, they're bomber.
They can haul they're made to work.
Um, You know, like I said, you might
sacrifice that extra pound, pound
and a half going up, but coming down,
you're going to have that security.
Like you're almost going to, you're
not going to forget you have 150 pounds
on your back, but you're not going to
have that where it feels completely
separate from your body, it feels secure.
If it moves, it's cause
you're already moving.
You're not going to have that
where you start leaning out from
a hillside and then your backpack.
Slips a bit, because sometimes that
little nudge is just enough momentum.
And that's why you go down the hillside.
Travis Bader: Oh, I've
been injured that way.
Yeah.
Um, so people will look
at your social media feed.
They'll look at the, the show, the edge,
and they'll see the highlight reels.
What are some of the challenges
that they're not seeing and
how do you deal with them?
The challenges in everything,
everything, um, I mean, from sneaking
around the bush with a camera guy, an
extra person or two in the field with
you at all times, it's a huge challenge.
Um, just the logistics of
that logistics of travel.
Another thing that I definitely
underestimated Was I had success hunting
previous to being with the show, but, and
I'd go on these hunts and go, Oh my God,
that would have made such an amazing show.
I should have filmed that.
It would have been so cool.
But you forget all of the hunts that
you go on that aren't successful, right?
You're planning out as I, you're
expected to film six or seven
successful hunts in a season.
That's a big season.
Now, not only are you supposed to
have six or seven successful hunts,
You're expected to harvest animals
that are quote unquote, show quality
or industry standard animals, right?
So you're supposed to six or seven
hunts that are above the average
and that are impressive hunts.
I don't have the financial means
or the show budget to be able
to do a lot of guided hunts.
Now, don't get me wrong.
We do some guided hunts, but a lot of them
are self guided over the counter competing
against everybody else on the Hill.
And you somehow have to let other, like,
Let a lot of stuff walk, have these
higher standards and have the success
in a short period of time, because
camera guys aren't cheap and all of this
stuff, like there's a lot of investment
that goes into the show production and
you have all these people that expect
you to exceed expectations, right?
So there's a lot of pressure aside
from not sounding like a complete
idiot, which I'm really good at.
Thank God we cut like 90
percent of what I say on camera.
Um, but not sounding like an idiot,
um, not making too many boneheaded
mistakes, checking all the boxes,
having that successful hunt.
And then for some reason, people
love to watch successful people fail.
So for some reason, right,
everybody wants to like.
You want to be the person that's
bad mouthed at the waterhole.
Like, right.
Cause that means you're successful,
but everybody's looking there and
they're like, man, what can I pick
apart about what this person does?
How can I knock them down a peg?
How can we, so you get a lot of haters,
you get a lot of backlash, but there's
a lot of benefits that come from it too.
Travis Bader: You know, I, A fellow,
I know he's a head of training for
hunter education and firearms training
in the Bavarian region of Germany.
And he talks about, he was telling me
a different, uh, styles of hunts and
what, what they consider acceptable
and their different levels of training.
And, but one of the things
that really struck me was.
In North America, the hunter will go
out and they'll show them on the show.
And if they're successful, they're the
hero and they got all the hero shots.
And, but over there, he says,
when the hunter is successful,
it's now a very expensive endeavor
because drinks are on him.
He's got to be helping everybody else out.
The cook, the people who, uh, help
set up the camp, the, uh, the guides,
if they have guides or everybody else
around them, and it's not the hunter
that's celebrated, but rather the hunter.
The support crew all around the hunter,
which I thought was a really interesting
way to, to look at it because the hunter
would not have been as successful without
all of that help that got them there.
No, a
Travis Bader: hundred percent.
I
think there's a big part of, um, you
know, like I mentioned, I do some hunts
completely solo, or I have a camera
guy that comes along, just follows
me in films, I've self filmed some
stuff, um, which is just a completely.
Different can of worms, not a
camera guy, but, uh, no, there's
a lot of people behind the scenes.
I mean, even the footage we bring back.
So the camera guys have, it's a lot
of pressure for a camera guy to be
able to capture everything we're
doing, wake up, put up with us.
I'm passionate about getting out there
and hiking up and down because I'm trying
to hunt an animal and like the switch
and you're in the, now all of a sudden.
A camera guy has to follow my stinky,
grumpy butt around and somehow find
the same passion that I'm able to do.
So like I can get up over rich
because I've got adrenaline
pumping through my system.
You got to have a camera guy that's
equally passionate, capturing
the moment and capturing all.
Then you have to have
a post production team.
I don't do my own editing.
So post production team
that can take that vision.
Put it onto the screen and
tell the story of the hunt that
you were on in a tasteful way.
Mmm.
Do justice to the animal, not do
just a whack and stack episode.
Show the appreciation, help our
viewers feel like they're there.
There's a lot more to it than
just Go out and have a successful
hunt every now and then.
And it's like, you got to succeed.
The network's like, they
don't want you to fail ever,
Travis Bader: ever.
See, I always thought that was one of
the neat things that, um, and I, I'll
be guilty of not watching a lot of TV.
I don't watch a lot of different
hunt shows, but meat eater, when they
started coming out, they found success
in telling the story and not always
having to be successful on, on the hunt.
And I, and I've seen a shift and I
don't know if it was meat eater or if
it was other shows or it's just the
zeitgeist, but being able to tell the
story of the failure, I think is just as
powerful as having, having that success.
I, I definitely think there's a
relatable, uh, aspect to that where
the average individual and most
people do fail on a lot of hunts.
So it's very common to
have a lot of failures.
So it's, it's relatable.
And if there's, there's some
value, so lesson learned.
Um, what you would do differently next
year, something taken from the experience.
Absolutely.
It can still go.
And don't get me wrong.
We do air episodes where we don't
harvest enough or we don't kill.
Right.
That's, that's not a faux pas,
but the thing is, everybody
says, well, we want the, like you
said, everybody wants a story.
We want to see the failures as well.
The ratings don't lie.
People, we can see people tune
in and they're like, Oh, this
doesn't seem like it's going well.
And then the episode airs again and nobody
watches it the second time, but everybody
goes, we wanted to see that stuff.
You air it.
Nobody sees it.
Your ratings plummet.
That's a good way to come off the TV.
So it's, it's people say they respect and
want something, but the numbers don't lie.
And then I'll like, so that's,
that's the cold reality of it.
But like we like, I like.
Being able to share the truth behind it.
I screw up a lot.
I make mistakes.
I learned from it.
I mean, for me, I feel better putting
something out there like that.
I feel like that's something like my
son one day will want to see, like,
you know what, dad wasn't perfect.
He may, I mean, he'll see that a lot
in one of the years anyways, but, uh,
yeah, like I think that side is you
want to balance the, The reality of it,
the blown stocks, the mistakes, all of
that stuff, but still have the success
because the truth is that's what fills
seats, which is a cold, dirty truth.
Travis Bader: Well, that, and that's
interesting because from my perspective,
not really being in that industry,
I would think like, you're right.
The numbers don't lie and
I don't see those numbers.
I don't, I don't see that side of it.
And I would just naively think,
Oh, tell the story, put it out.
You could have a whole
season of unsuccessful hunts.
I'm not,
I'm not like.
So historically, maybe there will be
a transition or a shift at times, and
it definitely probably just puts a lot
more pressure on like really quality
content or, you know, storytelling
to be able to pull it through.
Like look at Steve Rinella, that man,
he, his background is in journalism.
Right.
So he's a wordsmith.
He can.
Talk to you about watching paint
dry and you would sit there and
watch him talk for an hour, right?
The way he invites you into a story
and describes everything is beautiful
and you just can't stop right?
Whereas I am a football player like
like a journalist who has a way with
words and a guy that used to smash his
head against other guys for a living
so I Don't have that Ability there.
Travis Bader: So play to your strengths.
Tell me about guided hunts.
So I've never, I shouldn't say
I've never been on a guided hunt.
I think it's a fantastic way to fast track
a knowledge acquisition by watching other
people who, who know what they're doing.
Uh, my guided hunt that
I Molokai for Axis Deer.
And I, I, I didn't know the rules.
My first out of country hunt.
Figured made it might as well go with
somebody who knows what they're doing.
And it was, it was a very different
experience to how I've ever hunted,
which is, uh, hard and long and, uh,
through a lot of, um, school hard knocks.
Uh, what, what, tell me what the world
of guided hunts and what people who
are used to doing either solo hunting
or hunting in a remote wilderness
areas should, should be looking for.
That's, yeah, like, it was
an interesting transition for
me with my first guided hunt.
Um, But going out on a guided hunt,
it is like, if you're fortunate, it's
like a friend is hunt hosting you and
you show up and you're like, I want
to be able to offer some insight, but
understand that I'm not the person
that knows the most about this area.
The deer in this area, the elk in this
area, the moose in this area might react
differently to what I typically do.
Um, don't go in acting like a know it
all cause they do not appreciate that.
But, but be willing to like, listen,
learn, Understand more, like I've
learned some amazing stuff about hunting
through watching these guides, different
people and the way they react in areas.
So I like to go in and be a
sponge, but I'm not afraid at
times to offer insider suggestions.
But at the same time, if they tell me
to shut up and sit back in my seat,
Joe, like, I'm like, okay, yeah, just
thought I'd put my hand up for the
class, but it does make you better.
And you learn a lot, um, about
hunting different terrain, hunting
different animals and different
seasons, because they get to be
out there for the entire season.
We get to be out there for a week,
10 days, a short period of time.
Um, so it's, it's a different experience.
I've learned a lot through it.
I think guides are, they have a wealth
of knowledge, which is amazing and
really exciting to, to, to watch.
Um, but at the same time, I really
enjoy my own hunts and being
able to do my own stuff as well.
Travis Bader: What are some of the
biggest things that you've learned
throughout your career with wild
TV, or maybe from the guides?
Biggest things I've
learned throughout the years, throughout
the year, that's, that's a very vague.
It's very vague.
I
Travis Bader: left it open for a reason.
The biggest thing
I've learned is that I do
not know much about hunting.
Travis Bader: I am reminded of
that over and over again in myself.
It's, I don't think I'll ever get to
a point where I feel that I'm at a,
at a level where I can call myself
expert in any, any part of hunting.
Cause just when I think I know a
good amount, I learned that I, I'm
really low on the Dunning Kruger.
Absolutely.
And like, when you go into a new area,
that species might not act the same way.
It didn't, they, they can act very
similar, but there's no guarantee
that it's going to be the exact same.
So, and like I said, it's just
understanding, truly understanding and
appreciating how much I do not know.
About hunting.
And like I said, I went home, I
think I was four when my dad started
taking me out hunting and we're, you
know, blacktail hunting and grouse
hunting around here, things like that.
But I grew up, my mom ran the
local mushroom buying station.
So we spent a lot of time in
the bush doing all of that.
We picked greens because my mom
like made wreaths and garland.
So I spent so much time in
the bush when I was younger.
I used to think I knew a lot.
Yeah,
Travis Bader: we, we were talking about
mushrooms and it was always one of
these things in my head, these people
that go out foraging for mushrooms,
man, they got to be some drippy hippie.
Right.
And I'm like, who would want to go
and do this until I finally did it.
And like, whereas it's been
all my life, it's amazing.
I'm outside, I'm connecting with nature.
These it's like an Easter
egg hunt for adults.
It's so much fun, but this
is one of your, your passions
is, is foraging and mushrooms.
Yeah.
I mean, I was introduced, like I said,
I was introduced to it at a young age
and I'm sure there's certain being
raised where you get that excitement.
It's like Christmas when you get to
come home with a big haul of mushrooms,
the whole family gets excited.
You feel good.
Everybody else feels good.
So like there's that tie in my book.
So I'm sure I get those
endorphin releases.
When I find them on my own,
because it's just that subliminal,
like you're checking that box.
Uh, but, but I just truly enjoyed it.
Like my mom, so it was a
pine mushroom buying station.
Um, there's a big market
for them over in Japan.
You buy them, like there was times
when I was younger, we, we didn't
have a ton of money growing up.
Like we, it was small town living.
My father worked hard.
But we didn't have everything we needed.
So we hunted, we legitimately
hunted, fished and gardened
everything to feed our family.
That's what we did.
Right.
Um, so we shot a lot of forks,
spikes, all of that stuff.
It was true like meat hunters.
Travis Bader: Yep.
Um, but mushrooming, you could be out
hunting, blacktail hunting or mule
deer hunting, and you could happen
across a good patch of pine mushrooms.
And at the time, like I remember
at one point, They were over
120 a pound for a class one.
So like there's class one
through five with pine
mushrooms, whether it's a button.
So the veil is all attached or partially
detached and yada, yada rating scores.
So 120 plus dollars a pound.
And that's back when I was young.
So that's, I'm getting old.
That's a while ago.
So that's a lot of money.
Um, so now you could go on these hunts.
And not only pay for the gas, so it wasn't
a big hit, but like, you could come back
home, there'd be food on the table, and
money in the bank, and everybody was
happy, so it was this really exciting
time, where, yeah, and then my passion for
that, it's just, it's still, even without
the money, it's just fun going out there
and picking mushrooms, and if you're going
to be out there anyways, a lot of the best
mushrooms grow in the fall, chanterelles,
pine mushrooms, um, lion's mane, bear's
tooth, Cauliflower, mushrooms, like
all those bleats, any of that stuff,
Travis Bader: that's all
out there that time of year.
So you had some good advice talking
about if somebody wanted to get into
mushroom picking and not necessarily
having to be an expert in everything.
What advice would you give to
somebody who wants to get into it?
Learn
one thing.
Species of mushroom.
Just pick one that you're
interested in learning.
Look into, there's a lot of
information online regarding your
location and what mushrooms are
readily available in that area.
There's a ton of information
online and pick one mushroom
that interests you and learn it.
And learn it really well, learn how
to identify the species you want and
how to identify the similar mushrooms
that aren't the ones you want, because
sometimes they can be very poisonous.
Um, some of them might just cause
discomfort or be bitter and you
don't want to mix the mushrooms
because cross pollination of even
the spores on the mushrooms can
sometimes make your stomach upset.
But learn one mushroom at a time.
And you can spend a whole year, you
learn one, and then in a few years,
you're going to have A big amount of
mushrooms, you know how to pick and
you're going to feel really confident.
To this day, I go out with friends and
they're like, what's that mushroom?
What's that mushroom?
I'm like, I call them lever rights.
I'm like, oh, that's a lever, right?
And they're like, oh,
what's a lever right?
I'm like, leave it right there.
Cause I have no clue what the
heck it is, but don't touch it.
We'll take a picture.
I'll look it up later.
Yeah.
Um, cause I don't know what a lot
of them are, but the ones I do
know, I'm very, very confident.
I have a hundred percent
confidence can pick it.
Know how to cook it.
And I'm happy with that.
And I know the areas to
find them and everything.
And I likened it earlier to if somebody
wanted to go hunting and they wanted to go
on their first hunting trip, feeling like
they needed to understand every species
ID, every sex ID, being able to age class
a sheep, do all of these things before
they wanted to go hunt grouse or rabbit.
Forget about it.
Like you can figure out what a grouse
looks like and go hunt grouse and then
go, okay, I'm really good on grouse.
Now I want to look up rabbit and
differentiate, like find the difference
between a cottontail and different
types of rabbits or deer or moose
or, and then eventually work your
way up to the more complicated ones.
Cause yeah, like if you want to go pine
mushrooming, the pine mushroom has a
very distinct smell, very identifiable
features, but there are some mushrooms
in this area, like one of them is
called like the angel of death.
And if you eat it, if you eat like a
cap, an adult can eat a cap or half
a cap, go to the hospital, tell them
you ate that mushroom, they're going
to keep you comfortable till you die.
Right.
Like that's it, you're done,
because it causes organ failure.
Travis Bader: So, but.
That happened recently, didn't it?
Just recently there is a group of, I
believe, uh, they're Japanese jurists.
Did you hear about this one?
I I've heard
a few cases over the years, but I don't
know if I've heard this specific case.
No.
Travis Bader: Okay.
I think, what were they looking for?
There was, um, because one will grow on
a hardwood and one grows on a softwood,
one will grow one type of tree, one
will grow on a different type of tree
and they, they look very similar.
And I think it was the, I think it was,
and I wish I knew more about mushrooms
to be able to identify which is which,
but, um, from what I understood,
there's a family that ate them.
It was a lookalike and they ended up, uh,
not making it.
It's, it's scary, but what I will
say is don't let that scare you away
from it, because once you do know,
there is some very, very obvious, like
the veil on a pine mushroom attaches
higher up the stem, the veil on an
angel of death attaches to the bottom.
It's bulbous.
Um, the, the, Angel of death has
these little square chunks on
top that'll kind of shake off.
Whereas a pine mushroom doesn't,
pine mushroom has a very firm
stock, very pleasant smell.
Angel of death stinks, like it's gross.
Like, you smell it and you're like,
why would I ever want to put that in,
like, why would I want to eat that?
Pine mushroom, you're like, I don't
know if I'm going to get this back
to my kitchen before I bite into it.
But, you don't want to screw up on it.
So, but there's easier ones start
with like a yellow chanterelle,
start with, you know, a cauliflower
mushroom, very distinct.
Start with a morel.
Morel.
I just picked morels for my first
time this year and that makes me
feel stupid because they're amazing.
Oh, they're so
Travis Bader: good and
they're easy to identify.
And if you find a fresh burn,
they're, they're abundant.
Oh, I love
morels.
Yeah.
So they're, they're great.
But yeah, there's really easy mushrooms,
there's beginner level and then
there's advanced and there's once.
Not even necessarily advanced, but have
more of a risk if you make a mistake
and start with the easy ones, learn
one or two a year, get really good.
And before long,
Travis Bader: you're going
to look like a pro out there.
I think that's good advice.
You know, the other one that gave me some
comfort was Hank Shaw, who said, there's
a lot of mushrooms that you can pick that
are going to give you an upset stomach.
There's only a few that are
going to really do damage to you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Like I talked about.
Right.
Again, it's one of the nicknames it has.
Anyways, um, it's not overly common.
I've found them in the same areas
where I pick pine mushrooms, but
they're not overly common and Yeah.
So it's, don't let, don't let
that scare you away from it.
Just understand that you should
appreciate and definitely put the effort.
Don't go out there and just willy
nilly, pick a bunch of mushrooms,
throw them in a basket and go, I'll
figure this out when I get home.
Travis Bader: Oh, we got
a, got a friend as well.
She went out for a hunt and pick some
morels and chewing away and eating them,
thinking these things are fantastic.
Not realizing you're supposed
to cook them first, right?
You have them raw, didn't understand
why her, and I think she was out with
her father, why her and her father had.
Uh, uh, some GI upset afterwards.
Yeah.
That'll get you moving.
Um,
Yeah, definitely.
Certain mushrooms are more palatable, raw.
Some you can get away with
and some deer really like.
So if you're finding like, I've had
a lot of success going into areas.
I talked about it earlier
when we go hunting.
If I go into my pine mushroom spot
and my mushrooms are all chewed down
to the stems, I got to keep my eyes
peeled because there's deer in the area.
But if I go in there and I end
up with a huge haul of pine
mushrooms, I get to win, win.
Um, but yeah, like deer
will love pine mushrooms.
Chanterelles grow in blacktail spots
a lot and those same mossy bluffs.
Um, so there's a lot of, you're going
to be there anyways, you might as well
ID a few mushroom species while you're
Travis Bader: in there.
It's interesting when you
start, uh, realizing how
interconnected everything is.
Absolutely.
And interconnected while they're alive.
And, uh, blacktail with some
pine mushroom
Travis Bader: sauteing on the side,
like that, that hits the spot.
I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there anything that we haven't
talked about that we should be touching
on because right now I'm having a
difficult time differentiating between
what we've talked about on the podcast
and what we talked about for the
last number of hours on the boat.
Yeah, we've talked about a whole bunch.
Um, I mean, like I said, I'm
typically pretty open book.
I don't.
Shy away from any topics
and I'm pretty easygoing.
I don't have a, an agenda
with us chatting today.
I'm just enjoying chat with you, learning
more about you and your background
and, and sharing some stories and
hopefully offering some insights that
people can take something out of.
But, uh, yeah, I mean, we've talked about
parenthood, we've talked about career and
misconceptions about what I actually do.
We've talked about, um, you
know, passions with hunting and
mushrooming foraging background.
Um, Yeah.
I mean, it's
Travis Bader: okay.
Well, he's done
pretty decent so far.
I'd say,
Travis Bader: well, what if we
go forward a little bit, because
you know, everything will have a
shelf life in its current state.
You can have different iterations
and change it over and have something
that can last longer and longer.
Uh, what does future Joe look like?
Future Joe.
I'm kind of, I guess I'm kind of
pushing into that realm right now.
Of, I'm really trying to introduce
my son to the outdoors and I'm really
wanting to gain, and I've said quite
often, like I get asked a lot, do you
really want your son to play football?
Do you really want your son to hunt?
I would be very proud if my son grew
a passion for hunting and fishing.
But as long as he likes the
outdoors, I'll be happy.
So if he likes just being outdoors,
if he just wants to hike, if he wants
to, as long as he has an appreciation
for the outdoors, I'm happy.
If we can share those experiences
through hunting and fishing and
everything, that's like the cherry
on top, that's the gold standard.
So far I've been very fortunate.
He really enjoys getting out there.
He really enjoys hunting.
Like he'll come in here and grab my
binos and be like, let's go hunting.
Or like he sees dad's truck and he'll
ask me, like, I pick him up from daycare
and he asked if we can go on the boat
and go crabbing or can we go hunting?
Or he understands when we're going
hunting and, and he really enjoys that.
So, um, for me right now, it's
that side of things I'm involved
with, like wild sheep society, BC.
I'm on their board of directors trying to
make sure that a lot of our opportunities
that we have now are available.
To the next generation, those
opportunities will be there that
the wildlife will be there to enjoy.
Um, so that's a lot of it.
Um, and then hopefully if I do a
good job at that, it means I'll get
to hunt longer because he'll pack
my stuff out of the bush for me.
I love it.
I love it.
So then we don't have to talk
about the next chapter too soon
because he'll be there with me.
And when my knees fail, he'll
be like, I'll take that for you.
Oh, that's amazing.
Yeah, but, uh, but yeah, I
don't see myself walking away
from the outdoors anytime soon.
If I'm, if I'm successful.
This is the type of thing where,
Travis Bader: I mean,
I'll
Travis Bader: work till
I die and I just love it.
Joe, thank you so much for
being on the Suffercore podcast.
I've really enjoyed our day.
I've really enjoyed the conversation.
Pleasure's been all mine.
Anytime
folks.
Thanks for having me.