Local Threads


This week’s episode of Local Threads I sat down with Paul Willis. Paul is an author, hip hop artist, mentor, community builder, super connector, teacher, and values driven salt of the earth human being. Paul was born and raised in JP aka Jamacia Plain in Boston. He has his finger on the pulse of happenings here in and around Boston. We talk about his book, Hip Hop Leadership and companion album and how he converged Hip Hop and leadership together working in and living around community, social justice, and the arts. 
 
Everything Paul : https://linktr.ee/paulwillisishiphop
Episode Mentions:
City Year
Black Bill of Rights Toolkit
Hip Hop Congress
Hyde Square Task Force
So Ripe Studios
Floor Lords
Alex Diaz President of Floor Lords
Megatron Boston Dance Studio
Stiggity Stacks
Cypher for Change
Verb Flow & Vision
Restoring the Feeling
Field Notes Proper
Bridgeside Cypher
Cambridge Hip Hop Collective
Ice The Style Specialist
Martha Diaz
Jim Tabuchi Catalyst Program
Crazy Bars Ive Heard
Matty Owens Christmas In Boston
Poets Cauldron
Beat the Odds Boston
Grammy U
Mass Spiritz
Pull Up Poetry
Ashanti Davenport
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Local Threads is produced, edited, and hosted by Molly Rae
Info@localthreadspodcast.com for inquiries
Music by: Moby Gratis

Creators and Guests

Host
Molly Rae

What is Local Threads?

Local Threads is a storytelling podcast documenting the voices of New England's creative community. Artists, organizers, and culture makers who shape spaces, movements, and shared experiences.

Molly:

Welcome to this week's episode of Local Threads. This week, I'm sitting down with someone who has spent their career at the intersection of art, education, and community, Paul Willis. Paul is an author, a hip hop artist, a mentor, a community builder, a super connector, a teacher, and a values driven salt of the earth human being. I could go on and on, and I'm sure if you have encountered Paul, you could as well. So let's just get into the episode.

Molly:

First, thank you for being here.

Paul:

Thank you for having me.

Molly:

And before we get into your book Mhmm. I just wanna say I learned a lot from it.

Paul:

Thank you.

Molly:

Especially the hip hop congress, why don't I know about that?

Paul:

That's a thing.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

I agree. I feel like more people should know.

Molly:

Yeah. Especially because it's recognized with the UN. Mhmm. Also, the Black Bill of Rights. Mhmm.

Molly:

Never heard of it.

Paul:

Right.

Molly:

And it's so it makes so much sense.

Paul:

It does. We were having those conversations in, you know, 2019, 2020, and, like, look at us now and where we're at, and it's like Regress.

Molly:

You know? Yeah. Completely.

Paul:

Yeah.

Molly:

The book come comes with a companion album. I was listening to it this morning, and I have ADHD, and I rarely can listen to something in full. No skips. That's something that I was able to do today. Then when I recognized Bruja the villain at the end because I just talked to her.

Molly:

Yeah. So I and I watch her on social media, so I know her voice. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Molly:

It it kinda made me emotional for a second because there's so much creativity in this area, and it doesn't get recognized. Right. And it just reminds me, this is why I'm doing this. Mhmm. Especially as an outsider that moved here, I get to meet and talk with all of you and, you know, go into these spaces.

Molly:

And I think it's so underrated just to be someone who goes to enjoy. You don't have to go and, like, I don't have to go and, learn hip hop, you know, like but I I enjoy hip hop. I always have, and I enjoy poetry. And it's okay to just go there and support. Exactly.

Molly:

And I think people forget that. Yep. And it's frustrating to me.

Paul:

Yeah. I I think everybody wants to be the one.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

You know, like, the star on the stage, the person with the massive team and all this stuff, and you lose sight of just appreciating the people around you and experiences that you have. I can't tell you how many times, even in just the past two years, where my friends have asked me, hey, can you run sound for my show? Can you be the production manager for my show? Can you support me in all of these other kind of facets? And I'm, you know, I'm happy to do it for my friends because I see what they're putting into the world.

Paul:

Mhmm. You know? And it's more positivity. It's more music that uplifts, more music that heals, etcetera. And so, you know, I think for folks to create the the city and the region and the spaces that we wanna be in, it's important to put in that kind of effort not as not just as the talent, but also as the fan Mhmm.

Paul:

And the supporter.

Molly:

For sure. Where are you from? What part of town?

Paul:

Born and raised in Jamaica Plain Okay. Which is, for people who may not know, like, right in the middle of Boston. Mhmm. You know, my neighborhood growing up was predominantly, like, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban. We were one of maybe two, maybe three Jamaican families, like, in our two to three block radius.

Paul:

And my specific section of Jamaica Plain I grew up in was maybe two blocks outside of what was then the Heath Street projects. It's not like the Mildred Taylor Homes or something like that. And maybe a block a train station away from Stony Brook, weird Jackson Square Mhmm. Area. And so what's over there now?

Paul:

Hyde Square Task Force, I guess, one of those organizations that people know a lot about. There's Mozart Park where there's a lot of cultural celebrations and things that happen over there. And so, yeah, it was a really kind of Caribbean, you know, cultural environment growing up there. And

Molly:

And that's not something people know about Boston.

Paul:

Right.

Molly:

And maybe it's coming from me because I'm coming from the white lens. Mhmm. Right? But I also never thought about Boston.

Paul:

To

Molly:

to be fair.

Paul:

Yeah.

Molly:

But the more I get to know people and see all of the culture here

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

It's it's here, and it's deep. And I love it.

Paul:

I go weeks without seeing white people.

Molly:

Like, if you do any kind of editing Mhmm. And b roll in Boston, it just looks like an empty city too. Mhmm.

Paul:

Yeah. But when you go into the neighborhoods, the feel is different. Mhmm. You know? Especially the neighborhoods that are, like, inner city neighborhoods.

Paul:

When you go to Roxbury or Dorchester, Matapan, Jamaica Plain

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

South End even. Right? The feel is is just way different. And there's so much more history that's there that people don't know and and realize. Yeah.

Paul:

In Jamaica Plain, you know, back in, like, the thirties was a predominantly Jewish neighborhood. Right? When my grandmother moved there in the fifties, it was still kind of like that, but there was this transitioning that was happening. My grandmother bought her house and had to get her supervisor from the hospital to come and cosign for her because they didn't believe that a Jamaican woman was college educated, was also working at the hospitals Mhmm. And had enough money to, like, purchase a home.

Paul:

Right? And so her supervisor came. He like, no. She works for us.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

You know, I'm a cosign on this thing, but, like, y'all need to get it together. Yeah. And and when you talk to a bunch of my neighbors growing up, so many, you know, immigrants who came to the country or second generation, first generation folks who came who owned a lot of the property there from the fifties, sixties, seventies, and on. And so, you know, you come to that, like, quarter mile between Jackson Square and the Whole Foods. Whole Foods used to be a a high low, an international food store.

Paul:

And maybe eight to ten years ago or so, there was a a change of ownership. Mhmm. But the community rallied to make sure that there were certain folks who were longtime employees of the international food store, like, kept their jobs and were able to stay employed and stay on with Whole Foods. So, yeah, there's a lot of that kinda togetherness, community organizing, and sauce that's, like, right there in that neighborhood. So it was pretty cool to grow up around.

Molly:

I grew up born and raised here.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

And I I love that you put in your book, which is called hip hop leadership, that you started writing when you were, like, five?

Paul:

Yeah. It's like a creative writer.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Yeah. I wanted to write about everything because I was such an avid reader.

Molly:

Mhmm. What were you reading?

Paul:

Everything. Everything I get my hands on. You know, early on, it was, like, a lot of, like, phonics lessons, frog and toad type books

Molly:

Oh, yeah.

Paul:

Cat in the hat. Right? I think as I got into elementary school and I realized, you know, my my grandma, when she would run errands, would she had me on a leash, so I wouldn't run into the street. It's one of those, like, active kids. But when you put me in a library, right, I took all that energy and became a competitive reader, which is that's like a strange quality, I think, to having a child, but it was something that, you know, I was just super juiced about.

Paul:

And so I'd be in the library for hours after school and things like that. The the library had a summer reading contest, and so the summers were, like, super lit. We the winner of that contest would get tickets to Fenway Park at the end of the summer.

Molly:

Oh, that's awesome.

Paul:

And so we go see, like, a a game maybe before the playoffs started or on that kind of thing.

Molly:

So you won?

Paul:

Yeah. No. It was like, I had an older brother who was a year older than me and a little sister who was, like, a year younger than me. I I have two other sisters who are like ten years Mhmm. You know, older.

Paul:

So a lot of times they were like our caretakers, you know, and and babysitters. And then there's my little brother who's like six years younger, but the age I'm talking about, he wasn't around for a lot of this. But they had the summer reading contest, and so it'd be me, my brother, my sister, and we'd be locked in the library, and we would just be reading everything. Animorphs, Babysitter's Club, Tom and Hardy, the choose your own adventure books. Yeah.

Paul:

I got into Redwall, you know, in that entire series by Brian Jacques, and so many other just amazing amazing books. I read over 300 books that summer. Dang. Yeah. I think my my brother read, like, close to a 150, and my little sister read over a 100 books.

Paul:

Like, the next closest child was, like, 10. Like, like, it wasn't even

Molly:

You don't have to go that hard.

Paul:

No. And so the library was like, okay. Cool. You know what? Since y'all are just so far ahead of the entire pack, we're gonna get you, like, a family pack of tickets to, like, go to Fenway together.

Paul:

And they still have photos of us in Fenway Park.

Molly:

So awesome.

Paul:

Yeah. You see my big sister there, like, not caring about baseball at all, worried about her nails or whatever. And I'm sitting there, and I'm locked in on the game. Yeah. It was cool.

Molly:

Do you like baseball?

Paul:

I grew up appreciating it a lot. I used to play, like, in the neighborhood. We'd stickball, get out in the street. My grandma had a backyard. You know, it wasn't a big property, maybe just like a quarter acre, but it was enough for me to, like, swing a wiffle ball bat until I cracked a window.

Paul:

Hitting a tennis ball straight through it, she's like, yeah. You gotta take that to the park. I I didn't have the money to join any of the, like, competitive teams or anything like that, but, yeah, I've always appreciated the game. But I was a I was a outside kid. Yeah.

Paul:

You know? Like, I had to skateboard, play basketball. We played

Molly:

I miss

Paul:

that all that stuff.

Molly:

Of just, like, being outside.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. You

Molly:

can't now you can't get me outside. I

Paul:

hear you. If it like, when I'm not working and doing, like, artists and creative stuff, I am in the house.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

People won't like, they think, oh, you're an extrovert or you're around all these people. You're going. You're going. I'm like, yeah. But I love my inside time Yeah.

Paul:

When I can get it.

Molly:

I love it. Yeah. I but also the nostalgia feeling of being outside with your friends, not having phones, not even existing.

Paul:

Right.

Molly:

Miss that feeling. Right. And that also whenever I was reading your book and you're talking about adaptability and going from analog to digital.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

And I'm just, like, I think millennials are top tier when it comes to adaptability.

Paul:

Look at all the change that we've seen.

Molly:

Yeah. It it it's it's it's crazy. And now trying to learn something in your forties is hard, like, what I'm doing right now. Mhmm. But that's where the resilience part comes in.

Molly:

Mhmm. And your book really helped remind me, like, you have to just keep going Yeah. And trying, and you'll get it.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a resourcefulness in hip hop culture. I think it that that's the thing that also stems out of black culture too, right, of, like, we didn't have a lot, so much was stripped away, so much was taken away. And so in creating all of the things that we are creating, it's we're making a way out of no way.

Paul:

Mhmm. Right? And so when we have the opportunity to even have a little bit of resources, the things that we can do with that, right, is is pretty special. You know, you see it in food, in clothes, in, you know, music, etcetera. Right?

Paul:

Even just the taking of, you know, old records, right, and flipping them with whatever technology. Right? We didn't have, you know, drums and music instruments, and so the beat machine replaced a lot of that. Samplers replaced a lot of that. Mhmm.

Paul:

And flipping that stuff and creating something brand new out of it is, you know, incredibly important, but a lot of that mindset of we're not gonna stop creating, we're not gonna stop trying to transform or to better ourselves. I think that's the unsaid part of our culture.

Molly:

And it's unfortunate because it is American culture. Mhmm. It is the food we eat, the music we listen to, the clothes we wear Mhmm. Has all started from black culture. Yeah.

Molly:

And I love that sinners is being recognized in the way it is because there's so many layers of stories and experiences within that movie. Mhmm. And when I was reading your book, I'm, like, realizing, you know, it it's it's interesting. The storytellers of hip hop really I watched this video on YouTube, and it was trying to correlate whenever hip hop gets really good, things are bad.

Paul:

Yeah. And,

Molly:

like, you see that with Kendrick Lamar, and, like, they're not like us. And the what what was the that was the Super Bowl. Right? Yeah. Mhmm.

Paul:

But the We Gonna Be Alright.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Yeah. And and that whole kind of movement during that time when that song was released. Yeah. I think that hip hop as a response to political movements, to oppression. Right?

Paul:

It's it's a form of resistance.

Molly:

And it's And that culture runs so deep. The history is so deep.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. And and the fact that the, you know, the art form is the most intelligent music genre, and it's simply based on how many words people are using. And so the ability to express oneself and to have so much room in three minutes, four minutes of a record to be able to say the things that you need to say, different than like a pop artist, right, who's singing melodies and singing them beautifully and connecting with people emotionally, etcetera. There's something different when, you know, your your pop song has a third grade reading level and is resonating with people around the world versus this song that's got a strong political message or sharing about this authentic cultural experience, there's just so much more opportunity there to say the things that need to be said.

Paul:

And it's not that you can't have that when other genres you can, but there's more to say. Yeah. And so the nuance is different and the ability to be seen and and recognized for your experience is different. And so, yeah, I I agree with that. You know, whoever whoever it was that said that, I feel like I might have seen that at some point, that video too.

Molly:

But It's probably been done about five times because, you know, that's how YouTube is. Yeah. You did it. Let me do it now.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I I absolutely agree with that that sentiment and belief that, you know, when things are tough in the world, people are looking for answers.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

And that's where you can find it.

Molly:

That's why I love sinners so much because that one scene where it's, like, just that nod to Mhmm. Like, the Ancestry. Mhmm. It was so good. Never expected it to be a vampire movie.

Paul:

No. Not at

Molly:

all. Because I didn't watch a trailer. I went in blind. And the whole time I mean, I knew who Michael B Jordan was, but I was like, he's a twin? No.

Molly:

He's not. He but it looked like like he was. I mean, there's been other shows that have done that, but he did such a good job.

Paul:

The movie magic and the brilliance of Ryan Cooler Yeah. Is incredible.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

You know? And to think that, you know, he's still relatively new Yeah. Right, in his career. He's had a few movies that have been wildly successful, but he's just getting started.

Molly:

I know.

Paul:

And it already feels like he's like like, you know, Spielberg Yeah. Or, you know, what's that other guy? Michael Bay, like, making these really big monumental movies and moments, and so that's pretty special. Ryan Coogler is also from Oakland

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

You know, in the Bay Area, and they have a whole other kind of set of stories to tell.

Molly:

So take me from how you left Boston and where you went.

Paul:

Mhmm. Yeah. I was in college and taking a full course load, five, six classes, tutoring at the local middle school, coaching a basketball team, running the intramural sports program, you know, for a local middle school on campus, and just, like, working three jobs in athletics. I was doing way too much. Yeah.

Paul:

And I had a college professor tell me, you know, if you think that you need some time to either save some money or figure things out, like, college will always be here, but you are serving your community now, and you don't necessarily need a degree to go and do some of the things you're doing like you're doing it now. So just take the time, really figure out what it is that you want and how you might want to finish, you know, eventually and then just go and do that. And so he told me about an organization called City Year, which I was kind of familiar with because I had City Year at my school when I was in the fourth or fifth grade at the Hennigan Elementary. Mhmm. And rediscovering the organization and seeing that they were working with young folks around social justice issues, that they were tutoring kids across the city, it was, like, exactly the thing that I needed to be doing.

Paul:

Mhmm. And we got these AmeriCorps Educational Awards at the end that was maybe like 5,000 or $5,500 at the time that we could put towards our college education and stuff like that. And that type of money, was like, okay, if I do a year of this, even if I do two years of this, this will give me enough of that cushion where I don't have to work so many jobs just trying to keep up. You know? My mom was living on, like, $600 on Social Security check.

Paul:

Like, we didn't have anything. You know what I mean? And so, you know, I'd get to campus in the fall, and I'd be three, four, five weeks behind because I'd have to work to earn the money to buy my books to then catch up with everybody else. And so taking the time away was important.

Molly:

Professor that said that?

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah.

Molly:

To have somebody that that was that, like, I don't know, nice to even care and be truthful with you.

Paul:

To be fair, he was also different, like, than every other professor. Like, Holy Cross, you know, Catholic College, kinda 3,000 kids, like, to medium size. But this guy was Puerto Rican from the Bronx, degrees from Columbia and Yale, played Lupe Fiasco in class.

Molly:

Oh, cool.

Paul:

Like, he was different and came from a different kinda mindset and frame, and that class was called education for social and political change. And so we talked about, like, real issues and things that were happening in our society. It's my first time reading Jeffrey Canada's. It's a whole bunch of stuff that we really got into. And so he and I developed a close relationship and because he was one of the few people on campus who even recognized me.

Paul:

Mhmm. You know, my adviser my freshman year told me, oh, if you're not a chemistry student, I don't know how to help you. I can't give you advice. Like, why did they even send kids like you to me? Mhmm.

Paul:

I never saw another adviser after that at all. Yeah. I just like went through Yeah. What I mean? Pointless.

Paul:

Like, three almost three and a half years of my college experience without any guidance from any adult or professor or dean at all.

Molly:

And that's the normal experience because I didn't have any I mean, I did all my university online.

Paul:

They just let like will let you go and if you fall through the cracks, then you fall through the cracks. Right? The I think the the norm is that, oh, you have people who support you, will help you figure it out. Mhmm. But I didn't have that.

Paul:

Yeah. Like, the the environment I came from and the people around me. My older sisters, you know, had gone to college, but I didn't get to, like, see that up close. Like, I knew that they went away Yeah. For school, but I didn't get to see, like, oh, this is a college campus.

Paul:

This is navigating a system. That's how you register for classes. Like, were doing that

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Completely separate. And so I think sometimes people feel like, you know, if you have a social capital, then you don't need as many of the resources from school. But for kids like me, we just we just didn't have access

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Or we just didn't get the information. Right?

Molly:

To a lot of people for and I wanna take it back to being a millennial because well, maybe this is just a societal problem.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

If you don't know to ask, then they assume that you already know, which is so annoying. Mhmm. It's like, well, I don't actually know.

Paul:

Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, I I learned by working with youth that you really can't assume anything. No. You really can't assume that they know anything at all. And so constantly having to provide context Yeah.

Paul:

For why certain things happened or how decisions get made and demystifying a process. I'm working with a a student now and, you know, I teach a creative economy class in Lowell right now. And one of my students is a young kind of emerging producer. He's learning some of the basic skills. We were able to set up an internship with him at SoRipe Studios to get paired with one of the engineers to really dive deeper into production, to learn how a studio runs, how to work with clients, etcetera, etcetera.

Paul:

And before his first day, I'm like, okay, what questions you have? Like, had a lesson plan, but like Yeah. Let's like pause and let's figure out how you can feel comfortable and knowledgeable about walking into this situation.

Molly:

Yeah. Because that is very intimidating.

Paul:

Yeah. And so then, you know, explaining everything from like, where's the door? Mhmm. To like, what's the layout of the space? Who are the people in this space?

Paul:

What experience level people are at? Right? And, like, all of this stuff to just demystify it for him Mhmm. Make him feel comfortable. And then he texted me, and he was like, oh my gosh.

Paul:

I had such a great day. I learned this. We did this. And, you know, and so he's having a really positive experience Mhmm. With that internship.

Paul:

But it's the kind of thing where you realize, like, oh, if I didn't pause Yeah. To just have this moment of, like, what do you think you know about this? And what do you don't know? What are you worried about? And really kind of go deeper with with him Yeah.

Paul:

In that way, then he maybe wouldn't feel as comfortable. Right? Yeah. It might feel too new or he might feel too intimidated to walk in that situation.

Molly:

And that is something that you do by one on one or with a class?

Paul:

Yeah. Well, I teach a class, but with that student as a one on one kind of conversation. But but that's what I try to do with young folks in general. Yeah. And so where I'm teaching or if I'm if if it's a one off class or like a semester long thing, my approach is I have information to share Mhmm.

Paul:

But in order for this information to be relevant, right, we have to center this knowledge within your experience. Right? So where you're at is where I have to come and meet you and then potentially like fill in the gaps. Right? And so if you've never had conversations about authenticity, right, and what it means to establish your voice, like, we we have to go and do that.

Paul:

Before we could talk about world building and concept development and all this other kind of stuff, you know, to be a professional artist, we have to figure out who you are, you know. And so filling in some of those gaps and then bringing them along and then sharing the information that was there to teach is an important thing. And so it's it's teaching, and it's also mentorship.

Molly:

Yeah. I need one.

Paul:

I hear you.

Molly:

I mean, honestly, if we had people that would just meet us where we're at instead of being, like when you bring up authenticity, I highlighted something because

Paul:

Oh, nice.

Molly:

Everybody wants everybody to be authentic. Mhmm. But you don't get recognized for being authentic Right. Until something goes wrong. And that's what you said.

Molly:

We only hear about the times when keeping it real goes wrong and never the times when someone was consistent in their beliefs, actions, and values and the difference they made in their community. That hit because it's so true. I see people out here doing such good stuff, and they're not being given the opportunities, which ties to the song that was on your

Paul:

Yeah. Album. Yeah. We we take it for granted Yeah. That people are doing the things that they should be doing and are, like, expected to do and are consistent in that.

Molly:

And And aren't giving up because it's so easy to give up whenever you are not being recognized or you feel like you're well, let's be honest, all of this can be really expensive.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

Just even simple things. Just trying to invest in yourself. It's it's expensive. So Yeah.

Paul:

And when you refuse to take shortcuts or Yeah. Refuse to do it illegally Yes. Or refuse to do it. You know what I mean? Like, then it's it's even harder.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

Right? Because you're taking a for some people, it's it's it might be a moral stand. Yeah. For others, in this way, I like to think about it. It's it's a values based stand.

Paul:

Yeah. Right? And so, you know, if you don't if if something goes against your personal beliefs, but it would make it easier for you professionally or make it easier for you, you know, to to get, you know, certain kinds of opportunities.

Molly:

It's so easy to be a sellout.

Paul:

Right. And to compromise yourself. Yeah.

Molly:

So easy.

Paul:

Yeah. And so I think, you know, when when people are saying, you know what? I'm not going to compromise my beliefs. I'm not gonna do things that are outside of my character, and I'm gonna show up and accept what's meant for me to accept. Right?

Paul:

It completely changes also the the dynamic of power in those relationships and opportunities, you know. You also feel or what people have felt in those opportunities when they make those kinds of stands is that they are valued and appreciated more for who they are and for being themselves than having to hide or pretend or even mask.

Molly:

That's a long time for people to find you.

Paul:

Yeah. It does. But then the right people find you.

Molly:

Yeah. And it's so much better to have that quality Mhmm. Connections. And somebody said to me yesterday, rejection is protection, and I oh.

Paul:

Yeah. One of my students said it in class, and then I was like, can I make that the hook? Yeah. Please? Yeah.

Paul:

Yeah.

Molly:

It's so true. And I also one of the lines, in one of the songs was, there's no lack of creativity. There's opportunity. Mhmm. And that's so true.

Molly:

That's so like, especially in this area, there's just so much creativity. And it's like, how do how do we uplift those people?

Paul:

I don't like talent. Just opportunity. You don't like talent. Just opportunity.

Molly:

The

Paul:

world, we don't like talent. It's just the opportunity, and we see it. Right? Like, there's very few people who hold power, right, who are in these decision making positions, you know, and

Molly:

Doing dumb things. Yeah. Doing the most.

Paul:

Absolutely. And so I think, you know, the more we can uplift, you know, talented people who, again, are values based, principled Mhmm. In that way, and who have, I think, this this really, like, collective and community mindset Mhmm. Versus the individualistic, let me just get me and get mine.

Molly:

Because that's the that's the thing that is America's downfall right now Yeah. Is the individualism. Yeah. It's stupid.

Paul:

Yeah. We argue that's been that that's been the problem from the very beginning.

Molly:

Exactly. We were built on it.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's it's a tough, I think, seed to to uproot Mhmm. You know, because it challenges our very kinda way of life and and being and thinking and the way that systems get built. Yeah.

Paul:

You know, like, sure that there are, like, things that are written down. Yeah. You know, and those laws or those policies, sure, can be changed. The rules of the game can be changed. But it's the unwritten stuff that actually kind of worries me a little bit more about how power moves, how people get influenced, etcetera.

Paul:

And that has something to do with the things that are written down, but a lot more to do with, like, what are we willing to accept. Yeah. Like, if people are willing to accept that success only looks like this, or that leadership only looks like this Yeah. Then we lose the ability to expand what's possible for ourselves in in our reality, you know, that we live in. And so I think when we can accept, you know, new voices, perspectives, right, and really kinda listen and learn from each other about what we really need to be a better kind of country, I'll just say it like, then I think that we'll realize that there's actually way more that we agree on than we actually disagree on.

Paul:

Yeah. And I think that, you know, there are all sorts of issues. Like, we all want education. Right? We all want health care.

Paul:

You know, we all want meaningful purposeful employment. Right? We all want opportunities for our youth. Right? There are so many things that we can agree on, but we don't start from a place of, well, let's ensure that we have the things that we agree on.

Paul:

You know? And so even just the framing of it

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Of like, you know, we're not gonna start from that place of agreement. We're starting a lot of the political and and policy conversations around points of disagreement. It gets really hard to get anything done. You have people shouting at each other, not being collaborative, and, you know, government that shuts down, it doesn't work for the people. So, yeah.

Paul:

Like, it's it's it's a it's a bigger conversation, but I think, you know, when you bring that back to hip hop, that whole, you know, conversate it's the same kind of thing. When you step in a cipher and somebody's like, I'm not gonna stand in the circle. I'm a stand in the middle. I'm a make this about me. Like, this is me time, my perform you know, and that kind of thing.

Paul:

Everybody's looking at them like, what are you doing? It's a collective experience. And it's not just about rappers. The same thing happens in the dance community too. Right?

Paul:

If you're not sharing space, stepping up and stepping back and allowing others to do their thing, the dancers will look at you like, yo, that's kinda Is there other crazy.

Molly:

Are there dance battles that happen around here?

Paul:

Yeah. The dance community is insane in Boston.

Molly:

Oh my god.

Paul:

Did you know that El Nino, right, who's the president of the Floor Lords, like a a breakdance crew that's been around since, like, before hip hop, they were breakdancing at Faneuil Hall earning 2 to $300 a day back in the early eighties.

Molly:

What?

Paul:

You know? And they're still, like, teaching, like, generations and generations of kids

Molly:

mean about this area? Mhmm. Yeah. And I wanna go to a cipher. Where do I go?

Paul:

Oh, yeah. No. I'll I'll definitely tap you in. Megatron with El Nino and just, like, like, that whole crew of people because I just love

Molly:

getting into and just seeing people in their element and in their vibe and seeing how they work. And, like like I said, I don't I I can't dance no more.

Paul:

I'm I'm my

Molly:

forties. But I'm

Paul:

like, I'm showing up and and being a part of that community, I think you would really actually enjoy the Cipher for Change. The homies, you know, Christina, Dom, and a few other folks will organize that. Yeah. But those are opportunities where, you know, it's like a a free show, you know, they accept donations, not just like money, but also like physical goods and items to be able to share with people in a community, you know, who are in need. So Amazing.

Paul:

Yeah. There's a whole kind of community and culture around dance in the city, and El Nino represented us at the Olympics. You know, I think he was, like, one of the alternates for the breakdance competition, yeah, at the at the last Olympics.

Molly:

That Australia took that took all the sucked all the wind out of breakdance. Yeah. What the hell was that?

Paul:

I don't know.

Molly:

That was weird. That made me uncomfortable.

Paul:

That's also more of the thing about, like, what are the things that can divide us or, like, are different, whatever, as opposed to focusing on, like, the people who are exceptional.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Right? Because the story should have been about the winners and all of the different, like, individual kind of stories and how those teams even came together.

Molly:

Or why they'd even decided to add it? Like, how do you even get something like that added to the Olympics?

Paul:

Yeah. It's it's insane. Like, You know, breakdance and really, it's like hip hop dance as a as a category

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Is one of the few things that unites everybody from around the world because hip hop is such a global culture. I attended an event. It was funny because it was held in a car dealership in Sacramento because they had the nice floors.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Right? And, like, I wouldn't have thought of that because, like, they thought of everything. And they hosted breakdance teams and and dance teams from, like, 16 different countries from around the world.

Molly:

What? And

Paul:

so I met Russians, Chinese, Spanish, Germans, like, all these people from all these different countries and places around the world who met in his car dealership. That was in a neighborhood like Dorchester. Yeah.

Molly:

I love stuff like that because yeah. When I was watching your YouTube, there was, like, a specific place. I don't know where you guys were, but it was, like, a brick room, and it was low lit, and people were performing, and you were performing. And I'm like, I wanna go to stuff like that. Yeah.

Molly:

Stuff that people don't necessarily all know about.

Paul:

Yeah. That that might have been the verb flow vision Yeah. Open mic in Chelsea.

Molly:

Okay.

Paul:

Yeah. And that that special place, but also that event has a different kind of energy. It's really special in terms of all the poets from all the talent

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

That is there. Yeah. They're they were killing it and doing their thing. Shout out to Deborah who organizes that event. But, yeah, I think it's like if it's not a monthly, it's like every other month Yeah.

Paul:

You know, that that event happens out there in Chelsea.

Molly:

Find a or find out about a new subculture

Paul:

that's Yeah.

Molly:

Because Yeah. I just heard there's found out last year there's a circus school and, like, there's clowns too. Mhmm. I'm like, this is Yeah. Cool.

Paul:

Uh-huh. It it gets deep. It gets deep. The the dance community, like, has its own kind of offshoots. Right?

Paul:

Yeah. There's like a whole kind of acrobatic aerial circus type community that exists. There are tap dancers here with their own kind of deep and rich history too. But, yeah, there's like all of these different kinda groups, you know? Yeah.

Paul:

You look at the producers and the beat makers here, they have their own, you know, environment and spaces that they exist in. Shout out to Pierre Moore, Ike Bana with Restoring the Feeling and their Field Notes events. Mhmm. Those are spaces that really kind of center the beat maker, the producer,

Molly:

and People that often get overlooked.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. And so them coming in, playing their music, telling their stories. And, of course, that's also a space where emcees will find their way as they should.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Right? But it's rare that you see all of these different kind of worlds coming together to form, like, the Voltron. And I know I'm dating myself for that reference, but the Voltron of, like, events. Right? The one time that I saw that kind of happen, the Cambridge Hip Hop Collective hosted an event called the Bridge Side Cipher, and they partnered with Stiggity Stacks and the Floor Lords and a few other folks from the dance community, and they came to do, like, a mega cipher and, like, dance competition at City Hall Plaza.

Paul:

Oh, And so they had, you know, easily over 250, maybe 300 people come out to this thing, and it was like, you know, at a speaker and a DJ booth with multiple DJs. You had the dancers getting down on the floor that they brought in, and then you'd have emcees kinda rocking a mic or freestyle, you know, and it was one of those few, like, hip hop environments where all the elements were represented. Well, all of the ciphers happen separately now. Right? So and and generally speaking, like, are organized separately.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

But every once in a while, like, you'll see people come together to do something, but it's not often, and I wish it was more, you know, frequent.

Molly:

It's out in the universe now, so Yeah. It will happen.

Paul:

Yeah. The the Birdside Cipher, they started in the spring, and they organized events kinda every other week all the way out to the fall. Yeah. I know the dance community because they're inside at studios and other spaces. They're kinda moving year round.

Molly:

I'm low key wanna learn to dance better.

Paul:

Oh, yeah. No. We can, like, introduce you to some folks. Okay. Yeah.

Paul:

There are some incredible teachers. There's Ice, the style specialist

Molly:

Uh-huh.

Paul:

Who's a a dancer, you know, graphic designer, fashionista, like, all of these things.

Molly:

Oh, I

Paul:

love that. Incredible, like, artist, teacher, dancer, all of that. And there's so many other folks Yeah. Yeah, who are part of that community.

Molly:

Well, let me take it back to how you got I

Paul:

left college. I started working for an organization called City Year. They're an AmeriCorps program focused on, you know, tutoring kids in in reading, writing, math, etcetera, helping improve their attendance, their behavior, and their course performance in those subjects. You know, we went out to Sacramento to essentially start up the Sacramento chapter of the organization. And there's, mind you, maybe 30 plus of these organizations around The United States, and then there's a few international sites as well that aren't technically AmeriCorps, but they're their own thing in those countries like Johannesburg, South Africa, and London in The UK.

Paul:

But we started the Sacramento chapter, and that's what brought me there Okay. Was that opportunity. And I thought, oh, I might be here for start up, and I might come back home. But that start up experience then transitioned to a staff, like, job and role, and then I was, like, full on employment. You know what I mean?

Paul:

Being out there in Sacramento, moved on from CityAir to a few other roles in my education and then leadership development specifically. And, yeah, there was a point in time where I was like, you know, I need to be working for myself. You know, I have all this experience and what I kind of recognized was that the things I learned about how to teach modalities of learning weren't connected to the activist language and social justice language that I was getting in community and in, you know, activists and political circles

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

That also wasn't connected to, like, professional development or management training or any of this kind of leadership development stuff that we're seeing for, like, nonprofit professionals or mid career professionals. And I just thought that there was this interesting intersection that I was living in. Yeah. I was like, that's where I need to be operating my business.

Molly:

That's where the idea came from was when you were living there.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah.

Molly:

And this whole time, you're Bridging

Paul:

those worlds.

Molly:

You're recording Mhmm. From early age

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

Which I love that you wrote that your first rap name was Hypothesis. Hypothesis.

Paul:

Yeah. The longest side of a right triangle. Yeah. Yeah. We were nerds.

Paul:

We were nerds in middle school, and we loved it. And Yeah. We picked all of our names out of textbooks. It was great.

Molly:

Yeah. That's awesome. And so you're writing albums as well while you're Mhmm. While you're doing these nonprofit things.

Paul:

Yeah. And for the longest time, you know, people I had a supervisor tell me, I don't know if you should release that album, or I don't know if you should continue working, you know, as an artist because we think it might be taken away from what you do here, you know, at the nonprofit. And they didn't realize that, like, one hand was washing the other. Yeah. You know, there were things that I could do.

Molly:

Even telling someone, you can't do anything else Right. Besides work here, and so even if it's a hobby, like, you should probably stop doing that.

Paul:

That's how I took it. And I was like, this is this is wild. Yeah. And, you know, even with when folks have their hobbies, like, sometimes it's really it really is disconnected from their work.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

But when I would perform, people would see me at, you know, over mics or shows or just benefit things that we were doing around the city. Let's say, oh, I heard you do that song about your students. What do they need for support? Can we, you know, do a food drive? Can we get them winter coats?

Paul:

Do they need field trip money? Do they need, you know, mentors? Can we come and speak on campus? And so, like, I would be organizing resources after performances Yeah. To then come and support the work directly that was happening on campus, which then also, like, built even more support.

Paul:

Right? Then, like, people around the school and around the school district were like, wait a minute. Like, you're doing this thing with your artistry, and you're using it for our benefit, like, can we collaborate? Can we do a little bit more? And so there were cross site things that were happening and all this stuff, but there were some people who just didn't see the value in that necessarily.

Paul:

And what I realized was that this whole kind of world that I was building for myself outside of work, it could continue to sustain me and help elevate me

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

If I continue to do it. If I if I drop it and take their advice advice Yeah. Then, you know what I mean, I'll actually be in a worse off position. If I just keep going, then, you know, maybe they'll come along in a long term to see, you know, how this really kinda came together. Mhmm.

Paul:

And, yeah, it's interesting because also, like, there was no blueprint for this stuff. Right? Like, we know KRS one as the teacher, but, like, we don't see KRS one work on a daily basis. And so there there wasn't a hip hop school. There were you know what I mean?

Paul:

Like, there were maybe some teachers who were using lyrics or artists as part of lessons and lesson plans, but there wasn't like a framework around this stuff. And, you know, I think in the past ten to fifteen years, a lot of those people who are interested in hip hop education started finding each other through social media, started connecting, sharing techniques and stories. I met Martha Diaz who was a producer for Yo MTV Raps back in the day. And when MTV didn't wanna invest in Yo MTV Raps to go global, you know, and tell the global hip hop story, you know, and that was, you know, early nineties, she decided to get into the classroom. And she had all this media, you know, that she would bring in, you know, to her students, and they would work on projects, do archiving, educational work.

Paul:

And she hosted one of the first hip hop education conferences in New York in the early nineties. And so she's been doing this work for a long time, and meeting her and recognizing the scale of what was happening really kind of blew my mind. Yeah. Meeting Ramen Jamal from the hip hop congress, right, and hearing that there were these there's this network of international, almost like nonprofit entities that are preserving hip hop culture.

Molly:

But you can create a Boston chapter if anybody's interested because there is not one now.

Paul:

They've tried. Oh. Some people have tried.

Molly:

It's It's a lot of work.

Paul:

It is. And and the region's so disconnected, and there's so much transiency. Yeah. The people kind of flow in, in and out, and new people come in. Yeah.

Paul:

They they've tried. There was a Worcester chapter that I helped to start up.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

I don't know if it's still running or not. I was involved for maybe the first year, and then I ended up leaving that chapter for, you know, because I was I was growing kind of doing my thing.

Molly:

So I don't know. But maybe I didn't look hard enough

Paul:

to

Molly:

honest.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's maybe they stopped organizing, but like but there are communities, right, that are focused on the preservation of the culture, education about the culture, organizing politically, like, through the culture. Right? So like hosting a cipher, but having a benefit concert or doing a, you know, a show or a fundraiser and then supporting a program or organization that aligns.

Paul:

And so there's that stuff that's happening, like, all the time, but the stories aren't amplified. There's no there's no Source Magazine for that type

Molly:

of work.

Paul:

You know, you either are in the community and you know because you know the person or you kinda know some of the people, but otherwise, you just it just you wouldn't know. Yeah. And so

Molly:

much stuff going.

Paul:

Yeah. Martha Diaz's full time job is, like, archiving the impact of hip hop Mhmm. Like, in the education space, in in, like, cultural spaces. And so, yeah, it's it's a full time job. You need a full time team of researchers.

Paul:

Yeah. Because if you think about every in school, like, classroom teacher that's doing that type of work with hip hop, every after school program that's doing that type of work with hip hop, every nonprofit or community organization, every business that didn't want to be a nonprofit, but is having that type of work. You know what I mean? Like, it's all there's so much

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

You know, to document, to tell the full story. And it's it's my peers that are doing that work too. Mhmm. Right? It's my peers who are teaching in the class.

Paul:

It's my peers who are writing the research, you know, leveraging their PhD dissertations, etcetera, who are writing books, you know, writing curriculum. They're organizing conferences. Right? And I've done all of those things in my career because I've seen other people do that. Yeah.

Paul:

And I was naturally doing that because hip hop was my way of one, processing the world around me, but two, also connecting and relating with the people around me.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

And so, you know, being able to kinda translate that experience and that language for people to have an entry point into the culture has really been, I think, a dope thing. And when I was in the leadership development space, a lot of that is very corporate. Yes. It's very like

Molly:

Oh my god.

Paul:

You gotta wear a suit and tie. Yeah. You gotta you know, all this kind of stuff. And I was I remember sitting in one of my first sessions thinking, like, I don't really belong here. Like, there's doctors in my class, lawyers, like, these business people I don't really know.

Paul:

I'm the only community person here. My mentor, Jim Tabuchi, he was teaching, you know, this class. It was called the Catalyst program. It was run through the Sacramento Asian Chamber of Commerce. And Jim is a guy who's, you know, probably been retired by the time he was 51.

Paul:

He brokered a deal where, like, HP bought Nokia, you know, and, like, was responsible for a lot of their, like, Southeast Asian, like Yeah. Like, commerce and, like, business. So he's, like, been around for a long time. He's seen a lot of things. And after the first class where I was completely kind of silent and, like, just observing, he said, you know, if you're gonna be in here, we need to hear your voice.

Paul:

And I told him, I was like, like, come on. Like, there's this person, their doctor, that person, this. And he said, yeah. But you know what you got that they don't got is a realistic view of what's happening in our community. Yeah.

Paul:

Like, they don't know where the projects are. They don't know what's happening with youth. They don't know what these parents' concerns are. They know the world from their viewpoint and, you know, and perspective, but you can give people something that's tied to reality Yeah. That represents a whole kind of people and way of life that some folks can be disconnected from.

Paul:

Even if they come from that Yeah. You know, when you progress in your career, like, you move out of the inner city and you move to the suburbs, you might you know what I mean? Like, there's so many of these things that almost, like, detach you from, you know, reality. And so I think it's a one of those things where, you know, whether you're in community as as a teacher, artist, whoever, you you understand what's happening with everyday people Mhmm. And there's value in that.

Paul:

Yeah. And there's value in that when you show up for the policy conversation. There's value in that when you show up in the philanthropic circle, and you tell people about the way that they're writing their grants and excluding certain folks, right, etcetera. So there's so much that can happen, but nobody's going to, like, give you a certificate and tell you to start. Yeah.

Paul:

You know what I mean? Like, there's no, like, there's no certification or, like, don't no degree that's, okay, you're ready. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a it's like this mindset or this thing that has to be developed and, you know, that's why I was like, oh, like, we need to talk about, you know, what leadership looks like in this hip hop kind of lens or perspective.

Paul:

We need to remix the way that people think about leadership development as a whole.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

A lot of times people think leadership is like something you have from birth. Yeah. You know, if you don't got it, then you don't got it. Yeah. But in reality, it's a skill that can be practiced and developed and learned.

Molly:

Just like everything else.

Paul:

Right. And and if you don't have people in your life who can support you in that development, then you're missing it.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

But not a lot of people are looking at hip hop thinking, I need a hip hop mentor. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't Yeah. They just they think it's a throwaway thing or Mhmm.

Paul:

Something that's just for youth culture or, you know, and that kind of thing. But they don't see the way that hip hop can shape policy. They don't see the way that hip hop can transform philanthropy. You know, they recognize some of the commerce, right, and some of the business when it's when it's good for other people and not good for people. Right?

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

But it's it's rare that, you know, people are thinking about leaders hip hop leadership as this ability to transform all of these other kind of aspects about our society. Mhmm. And so that's it's at the time that I was writing, was like, I this is really necessary for right now. Yeah. And I'm hoping that, you know, when people read it, they start to get a sense of what's possible, and then they start to have the conversations themselves and their communities around, hey, like, what are your values?

Paul:

What do you believe in? You know, is this project being led by a certain set of values? You know, is this policy writing, like, what are the underlying values? You know, how does this change if we are, you know, really sticking true to certain things and getting people to really start to have these conversations differently. You know?

Molly:

So what if you could describe hip hop leadership in one sentence. Mhmm. What would it be?

Paul:

Hip hop leadership is the ability for people to process the world around them and recognize their agency and ability to transform and create new reality and new possibility. You don't have to be a hip hop artist to do that particular thing, but it's something that we can point to often in hip hop culture that happens and exists that can show us what's possible for the rest of our society and world. And so hip hop leadership is a it's a blueprint. It's a philosophy. It can be a teaching tool if you want it to be a teaching tool.

Paul:

But really, I think it's it's part of the pillars for what will reshape our society, you know, and the way that we're moving and the way we're thinking about countries and who represents us and what represents us, etcetera, etcetera. It's rare that there's a culture that resonates, you know, globally across language, borders, differences, belief systems, spirituality, etcetera. Hip hop is one of those things Yeah. That we can agree on as a planet. Yeah.

Paul:

And so I think diving into what it would mean to transform our world with some of these principles in mind would be a good start to, you know, any of the change that we're trying to make.

Molly:

Definitely. How do people sign up for the curriculum?

Paul:

Mhmm. People can purchase the curriculum through my website. So we have an inquiry form because what people's need for curriculum is is gonna be different.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

I had a teacher recently in Sacramento say, hey, I want to infuse your curriculum with my class that I'm teaching before you come out to do your keynote and master class. So can you send me one copy of your curriculum, like your teacher's guide and the student workbook, and we bundle it with the book and the album too. There are some people who are like, hey. I need actually your curriculum, but then copies of your student workbook for my entire, you know, college Yeah. And so they're like, we need, you know, books for everybody for a 100 kids.

Paul:

We need student workbooks for a 100 kids, and we need this many, you know, teachers guides for myself and for my TAs. Mhmm. And so that's why we have that inquiry form there. Yeah. It's not just like a I can click one or whatever.

Paul:

It's you tell us what the order is. And we have relationships with black owned printers in Houston where my publisher is based right now. She's from Roxbury.

Molly:

Oh, okay.

Paul:

Yeah. She's from Boston, but she's like in Houston right now. Shout out to Despolke and Destin Ashan Publishing. And so we work with those printers to print whatever those special orders are for people, and we get it shipped to them as as soon as we can.

Molly:

That's awesome. It can be as small as one person

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

And as many as

Paul:

Yeah.

Molly:

The sky's the limit.

Paul:

Yeah. And so I think it just depends on what people's needs are.

Molly:

I'm kind of jealous that I didn't or I regretful, not jealous, that I didn't buy the student handbook because of, like, this is it's just, like it's fascinating. I love a deep dive into anything. Mhmm. And, honestly, leadership is something that I feel like I'm lacking in. But I think anybody can learn from that.

Molly:

Like, anybody can do freshen up on those skills at any point in time.

Paul:

So Absolutely. One thing I'm working on for, you know, is a leadership cohort for adult artists and creatives.

Molly:

Oh, sign me up.

Paul:

I got you. And it's it's because of that type of response, and so kind of, you know, building what the experience would be, but also working around things like where is it gonna happen, like space is important, parking, transportation, and then the length of sessions also determines whether or not we need to have food present.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

You know what I mean? And things like that. And so after having facilitated a number of different, like, leadership cohort experiences previously, I know that, you know, this is the kind of thing that sometimes, like, a nonprofit will take on or a grant will come and support, you know. Mhmm. But hip hop leadership is not a nonprofit.

Paul:

Yeah. At least not yet. Yeah. And so, you know, I think figuring out how that works so that people who want to dive deeper, we can dive deeper. Hip hop leadership's not the only book that I think people should be reading.

Paul:

There's a number of other books that I think would be really good. I won't give out the the reading list right now, but there have been a number of books that have helped me in my own, like, leadership development that I think that when other artists have a chance to read these books and then apply the skills and the lessons learned into their craft Mhmm. It'll make them so much better.

Molly:

Yeah. It's so hard doing self guided anything.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

Just even being a creative, continuing creating, let alone investing in yourself and your growth.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

But also doing that by yourself and not being able to talk about it with someone that's going through the same thing is like Yeah. That kind of environment's, like, so key.

Paul:

Yeah. And and the only reason I haven't launched this already is because of the cost that it would be for individual artists and creatives. And during this time Yeah. I don't think that they should bear the full weight of that Yeah. Of that cost.

Paul:

You know? I think, you know, finding if it's a sponsor or a funder or somebody that's willing to like invest in that experience for artists and creatives, then I think that that's the way to go. Yeah. But it's also finding the right funder who believes in that work for adult artists and creatives. A lot of people who do it for young people Yeah.

Paul:

But they have almost, like, given up on the development of, like Adults. Adults. And I'm like, no. We can't do that. Like, we need it just as much as they need it.

Paul:

Yeah. You know?

Molly:

It's so true because maybe you like me, I didn't start doing creative stuff till a couple years ago, and I don't know what I'm like, I don't know where to Mhmm.

Paul:

No. I get it. Look. And and our world has changed a few times. Right?

Molly:

Like So many.

Paul:

COVID, we needed a way new way of, like, developing concepts and creating and sharing and all this kind of stuff. Right? You know, with the presidential election and all this kind of stuff that's going on now, it's like our world is being remade and reshaped and the rules are changing right in front of us. So it's in these times where I'm like, this is really where we need to build almost like these these brain trusts. Yeah.

Paul:

These, like, groups of people who are learning together, sharing ideas and experiences, and are developing themselves and developing each other. And so

Molly:

Yeah. The collaboration piece

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

Needs to happen even when you're not making money. Yeah. And people forget that.

Paul:

Yeah. And my my hope is that, you know, I'd love for it to be like an in person experience, but I also know that that may not be, you know, possible, so you might have to do like some virtual sessions. And then, yeah, I wanna be able to also offer it, you know, kinda year after year. So that's some of the stuff that we're working on now. Mhmm.

Paul:

Myself, and then there's a few other kind of people who are just, you know, some of my thought partners in this process.

Molly:

Now do you have albums that people can buy on they're all on Bandcamp?

Paul:

Mhmm. Yeah. People can go on Bandcamp right now and purchase the entire discography. Awesome. Yeah.

Paul:

Yeah. There are some fans and supporters of mine who've like joined my email list and things like that Mhmm. Who in the past have access to like the secret Google Drive folder where there's a bunch of like drafts and unreleased stuff and like videos of like all sorts of stuff. But if people are looking for the music and they just want to support the music, then they can go to my Bandcamp. Paul Willis is hiphop.bandcamp.com.

Paul:

There's a bunch of stuff that is on streaming platforms right now, but it's only up on streaming after I've made back what I invested into a project. Yeah. That's my, like, big thing. And so hip hop leadership is up on streaming platforms now, but if people wanna support it, they can purchase the book. It comes with a QR code in the back of the book and a QR code for the lyrics for the album and the lyrics.

Paul:

So that's where they can find that. And you'll never need a Spotify account. You'll never need Apple Music or anything to own the music. Yeah. And back in the day, we used to get the CDs with the liner notes with the lyrics inside.

Paul:

So like, you know what?

Molly:

CDs back.

Paul:

Yeah. I I thought, like, oh, it'd be great if people had these lyrics.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

And they analyze, study it, break it down, etcetera. And so that was my way of, like, it's not a CD, but it's kind of our new version of this.

Molly:

And what this app is new to me. I downloaded

Paul:

it. Untitled?

Molly:

Yeah. Untitled. Mhmm. And I was going back to let's start the album over again and I hit edit. And I was like, oh, woah.

Molly:

Woah. Woah. So it'll let you edit?

Paul:

Yeah. Because because you own it.

Molly:

Oh, it's yours. That that version is yours. So it's not like the public version you edit. Right. Oh, that's interesting.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

So you can download it. You get you know what I mean? You can have it, like, the files live on your phone, all that kind of stuff, and that ownership piece is important to me. Yeah. It is.

Paul:

You know? And so, yeah, I'm glad that people get to experience it in that But also they wanna just like buy the album, they can go to the band camp and buy it there. You can get every, you know, everything else that I've released there as well, so you can do a deeper dive there. Yeah. There are certain projects that are on Bandcamp that are not on streaming services, like my early mix tapes and things like that.

Paul:

So that's a fun bonus for visiting there.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

Yeah. And then, you know, I'm trying to, you know, constantly stay on top of social media, share new work, share new projects, share new events, just different things that are going on.

Molly:

Well, who? You were on live, and I missed it because I just saw it the the

Paul:

today. Last night. Yeah. Like, 02:00 in the morning.

Molly:

Was it really? Oh, yeah.

Paul:

It was super late. I was snoozing. They they tried to get it started, this livestream with crazy bars I've heard, which is a platform over maybe 330,000 followers. Ernie and then his team, Roan, and a few other folks, they're based in Dallas, Texas, and they do this platform where they amplify people who they think are just incredible, like, emcees, rappers, and a lot of it is, like, skill based, very kinda technical raps and stuff like that. But artists can submit their song.

Paul:

They do kinda weekly listening sessions on Tuesdays, and then the best songs out of those sessions, they pull out and put into this, like, tournament of sixty four. And it's like song by song, you know, they, you know, have these randomized matchups and see if you can make it through all the way. And so last night, they yesterday afternoon, they told me that they selected one of my songs and that it was gonna be included in this tournament and that they were gonna have the round of 64 last night. And so we almost made it to the first 32 matchups. I think it was like 29 matchups.

Paul:

There were some technical difficulties that like delayed the start by like fifteen minutes or so. But yeah, we were on the livestream until almost 02:00 in the morning. Yeah. It was a mess.

Molly:

I haven't seen 02:00 in the morning in a while.

Paul:

Yeah. But but people in real time can, like, give feedback Oh, cool. And can vote and say, like, hey. We believe that this artist or that song should advance. You know?

Paul:

And so Roan and Ernie, you know, they each get a vote, but if they're ever split, then they look to the audience. I just thought it was a really cool experience engagement.

Molly:

Like, to have that many people watching you at once and you gotta make a decision, and I was like, I

Paul:

couldn't do

Molly:

it. That's why I don't livestream.

Paul:

No. And, you know, and I'm not on a whole bunch of livestreams or things like that, but my song did win its first round matchup. Nice. And

Molly:

so What's which song was it?

Paul:

Christmas Conscious.

Molly:

Okay.

Paul:

It was something I did with Matty Owens for his Christmas album where there's over 60 artists on that album.

Molly:

Oh, wow.

Paul:

Yeah. It's like 66 songs or something crazy like that. And and all of the songs are Christmas, like a flip on the Christmas theme.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

And, you know, R and B songs, trap Christmas, you know, hey, like strip club Christmas music. I'm like, oh, this is, you know, kinda cool to see all these different takes. But for me, I was like, oh, I'm kinda like torn about how I feel about Christmas. I think it's a great time for people to kinda be around their family and all this kind of stuff, but then there's also all this craziness happening in the world, and there's a mythology around Christmas and consumerism and all. We don't have to get super deep into it.

Molly:

No. I feel the same way about it.

Paul:

But I thought I was like, you know what? I'm gonna put this into a song. And I had a conversation with Maddie. Somebody was complaining about one of the songs being, like, over the top or whatever, and I was I hopped in a chat to defend that artist and their ability to create and make it whatever they wanted to make it. And I was like, but if you need a Christmas, like a conscious Christmas song, that's me.

Paul:

Yeah. So we got in the studio. I never heard the beat until I arrived. Matty played it for me. There was a breakdown in the middle of the beat that completely switched the vibe, and I had maybe half of a verse.

Paul:

Mhmm. You know? And then I wrote the other part when I was in there. We recorded it. He mixed it.

Paul:

We mastered it, like, same day. And so it might have been like a three hour process, but it was the coolest thing. And then his videographer who was documenting the process, he was like, there's not another song on the album that sounds anything like this. Like, none of them are political at all. Nothing.

Paul:

There's no other conscious record that's on this project. So can we shoot the music video? I was like, sure, but I'm leaving town in, like, three days. He's like, great. Well, you got two days to memorize as much the song as we can.

Paul:

And so we went out to Copley Square, and we shot the music video two days after I recorded the song. I don't even think I knew all the words at that point. We just tried to do our best of,

Molly:

Did like you

Paul:

wear a sand putting clips together. I should have. I should have. I had this, like, light blue Roxbury, Massachusetts, you know, hoodie on. But yeah.

Paul:

No. I I should have found a Santa hat. That would have been incredible. Next time. Next time.

Molly:

Yeah. I did wanna ask you. The album that comes with the book Mhmm. Are is everyone on the album from Massachusetts?

Paul:

Let me think about that.

Molly:

Or at least the area.

Paul:

Yes. The only exception might be Tango on track number four, a collaboration. Mhmm. But he was living in Chelsea

Molly:

Okay.

Paul:

At the time. So, like

Molly:

It counts.

Paul:

He's he's he's from oh, wow. Wait a minute. Let me not mess this up. Is he from he's been all over. He's a he's a he's a traveler.

Paul:

Okay. Tongo it's funny. Met him a long time ago in Worcester. He spent some time in, like, the South. I wanna say Louisiana, maybe New Orleans.

Paul:

He's been out in Oakland. He was the poet laureate for the city of San Francisco. Okay. I think he's he might be in Detroit now. Like, he's been, like, really all over.

Paul:

But for about maybe a year, year and a half or so, he had moved to Boston. And, like, Boston was his home base operation, specifically Chelsea. We got, you know, connected, and I was working on projects, and I was like, hey. We just made something I thought you would sound great on and got him in to do his thing. And so he he came in and did his thing on the day that he was leaving Boston.

Molly:

That's a professional.

Paul:

Yeah. It was like Zipper Ruha's out of Worcester. I

Molly:

was so excited to hear her. Yeah. Because I I only know her from social media, which I'm gonna go to her, the Poets Cauldron event

Paul:

with The Ursula Rucker? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay.

Paul:

I'm

Molly:

so excited about that, and, also, I'm going to her art exhibit. Yeah. So that'll be fun. But yeah.

Paul:

Is one of my favorite people in life, and that was her first time on anybody's album. What? Yeah.

Molly:

Oh my she needs her own album.

Paul:

She does. Yeah. Absolutely. You know? And

Molly:

I'm buying it.

Paul:

And and poetry albums, you know, can win Grammys now. So, yeah, that that that's his own kinda thing and experience, but Barrera's great friend and it's incredible. She's out in Worcester, grateful queen, Laura Cabrera, credible emcee, singer, you know, a multiple genre, right, does a lot of things with live bands out in Lawrence, Massachusetts, and so Quayton will come and like rock some shows with me during the summertime and stuff like that. But, yeah, it was a really kind of wide reaching group. A lot of the features are on a couple of tracks.

Paul:

The first track, Authenticity and Self Expression, all of those features on that record are my students.

Molly:

Oh. Mhmm. Wow.

Paul:

And the track is six minutes and seventeen seconds long.

Molly:

And it is it doesn't feel like it, though.

Paul:

No. No.

Molly:

Because I like I said, I listened to the whole thing.

Paul:

We made that in class.

Molly:

Really?

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, Louis was the you know, he teaches, music production, you know, with Beat the Odds and which is another creative youth development nonprofit Mhmm. Organization. He made the beat.

Paul:

We all heard it at the same time. I started writing. One of my students, Macio, came up with the hook, half a verse, you know, and then it just came together kinda like that. Yeah. And then the other big collaborative track is community building at the end.

Paul:

And, you know, Erin and Jill from the Cambridge Hip Hop Collective, and you got Red Shades who's, you know, legend, you know, here in the Boston community is doing a ton of work right now with like Grammy U and all that stuff. Terry Borderline just started Mass Spirits nonprofit as a way to organize creatives to give them opportunities to create work together. He did not lives help those people. Actually probably down the street from here. He's in Brockton.

Paul:

And so he's like not far from here at all. Who else do we have? We have Masai Maru Khan of Pull Up Poetry, you know, fame. Mhmm. He's an incredible poet, emcee, and recently became a producer, started, you know, producing music and stuff.

Paul:

And Ashanti Davenport out of, you know, Pawtucket, Rhode Island, but is constantly in Boston Yeah. Really up and down, you know, the Northeast. And so we had artists from really, like, the entire region

Molly:

I love that.

Paul:

You know, that were that were on this project. And most of the producers were Boston based, except for my my music director, Jeffrey Archie Junior. He's from Sacramento, California. Mhmm. And he sent me you know, he constantly is sending me beats.

Paul:

Yeah. But when he heard I was working on this project, there were a few that he sent me that he thought, like, would be really good for it. So No.

Molly:

It's phenomenal. Even if people don't feel the need to read the book Mhmm. Buy the album, but also read the book because it's not long and it's just full of insightful information, and I loved it. But also, these are the things that people skip have skipped out on Mhmm. Either their whole life or like, because I didn't experience community until I was in the military.

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

And even then, it was a forced community and it there was still, like, adapt that adaptability, obviously, of it and the we did a lot of volunteer work. But all that volunteer work was to make sure you put it on your your annual review so that you could get promoted. So it wasn't like it was not in the nature that, I guess, it should be, which is you're doing it because you should do it, and it's you find purpose in it, not because you were getting something out of it. Right.

Paul:

Right. When when you give without that expectation in return.

Molly:

Yeah. Which people have lost that. They always wanna just be like, look what I did. You know? And sometimes that's not necessary.

Molly:

All the time, it's not necessary.

Paul:

Yeah. That that's sometimes, like, a tricky situation too for folks who are constantly, like, in community spaces Yeah. Of, like, I wanna amplify my work so I can inspire more people to support it. Yeah. But I don't wanna come across as somebody who's, like, you know, exploiting Yeah.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

You know, somebody else's situation.

Molly:

That's how I feel like this podcast is. Like, all I feel like is, like, okay. Who am I? I'm just somebody putting people on the mic and then cloutching. That's I feel like I am riding on everybody's coattails.

Paul:

That's not true.

Molly:

I know. But that's my But that's my input. That's how I'm like, oh my god. Yeah.

Paul:

That might be the voices inside your head, Molly, but I gotta tell you, like, high quality podcasts that really care and really dive deep into artists and their stories and the projects that they're working on, that is a rare thing. Yeah. Like, there's so many podcasts, even hip hop podcasts that are here in our city, that are here in our region, that are really focused on, like, clickbait Yeah. Or trying to go viral Yeah. As opposed to, like, let me amplify this person's work.

Paul:

Yeah. You know? And I think that

Molly:

Humanizing someone instead of commodifying them is

Paul:

more important. And it's there's such a there's such a nuance in it that people think, oh, well, even if we ask you this crazy question or whatever as like clickbait, then more people will see it. But it's really like, but those aren't the people that I want to No. You know, participate in the work. No.

Paul:

And it's not that, you know, there there's a time and place for everything. I love my club music, my party music, my dance. Like, I can appreciate it all, but my music is for your nine to five. Yeah. You know, when you're out of work and you're ready to party and turn up, there are other people who I, you know, will press play on.

Paul:

But when we come to the interview and the conversation and this and that kind of stuff, I really want people who value, you know, what the craft is

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

The artist's dreaming. You know, who the person is because it informs Yeah. The way that they create their craft.

Molly:

But also that, like, listening to the words is just something that I love to like, hip hop is something that you can either vibe to the beat

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

And the hook or you can just, like, dive deep into the do a deep dive. Mhmm. And that I think it's really cool because, you know, like we were talking about Kendrick earlier, like Mhmm. You can just vibe out or you can look really deep into the story. And same with this album and just all of hip hop is like that.

Molly:

You know, I

Paul:

Well, not all of it is like that.

Molly:

No. That's true.

Paul:

There there there's there there's some stuff that is just like, yo, we just want vibes, and we don't want none of

Molly:

It

Paul:

this is true. You got to say that is important.

Molly:

And so isn't really

Paul:

Well well, Lil Jon just did some music with La Russell. Oh, did. And so yeah. And so

Molly:

Oh, okay.

Paul:

So it's interesting because, like, that's another great example. If somebody's like, oh, man, you make anthems, make party music, you make stuff like this. And also Yeah. Like, little John has lost a whole bunch of weight. He's, like, you know, running and doing all this, like, workout stuff, and he's completely transformed his life from that crunk, like, party stuff

Molly:

Okay.

Paul:

To, like you know what I mean? Like, working with, you know, different types of artists.

Molly:

I love seeing people evolve. Yeah. And that's more we need to see more of that

Paul:

Uh-huh.

Molly:

Because people think, oh, you're only this type of way, so you can only be this person. Forever. We see that in the negative connotation, and that's amplified a lot. Like, people like Nicki Minaj, for example. Mhmm.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

Is there redemption for her? No. I mean, I maybe. Sorry. No.

Paul:

It's okay. I just there might not be. Some people might not feel like it's fine. I think that, it's really hard to throw people away.

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Right? Like, whether we're talking about, like, criminal justice reform and prison reform and all that kind of stuff, mass incarceration or, like, cancel culture. Yeah. Like, you know, I I'm taking a class with d one about hip hop and social change at Tufts University right now, and we just talked about the role of consumer and consumer activism. Yeah.

Paul:

And so this came up, this exact conversation came up in class. And one of the things that we talked about was, is the harm that an artist, you know, may do or or commit, is it repairable with their community or Mhmm. Kind of the the larger, like, societal context. And so another artist came was like Kanye. You know what I mean?

Paul:

It's like Yeah. Is that harm repairable or not? And I think the jury's still out for a lot of people, but some people are like hard no. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Paul:

And that's kind of where I'm at right now. Yeah.

Molly:

It's like

Paul:

I love the old Kanye, but this new Kanye I can't forgive, and it skews the way I view his old music.

Molly:

Yeah. Who are you?

Paul:

Yeah. And so I'd like and so some people might feel the same way about Nicki Minaj, but this idea that like, yeah, that like they can't continue to make music because of it. It's like, no, no, no. I just don't have to support it. Right?

Paul:

Like that's the thing. It's like Yeah. You should still like

Molly:

Do your

Paul:

thing. Make music, do your thing, like earn your living, like do what you need to do, figure that out for yourself. I am just going to turn my attention in my ear to somewhere else. Yeah. I'm not gonna give you the support that maybe I once gave you.

Molly:

And I'm not for

Paul:

other reasons. Right.

Molly:

With the negativity either. Right. And so It's just now irrelevant.

Paul:

Yeah. But that's But that's the that's that's our role. That's our job as consumers to change that.

Molly:

Did you go to the Boston Music Awards?

Paul:

I was in California, I think, when I

Molly:

Is that something that people show up to? Yeah. Okay.

Paul:

Yeah. No. That's a big deal.

Molly:

Okay.

Paul:

I'm typically back on the West Coast. Not a boy. Just reconnecting with with family. Yeah. My fiance's family, you know, was out in in California and a whole bunch of friends and, you know, stuff going on during that time.

Paul:

And so it's usually time that I, like, am away. And Boston Music Awards typically falls right around the date where I'm like, I'm flying out. And so I can't wait.

Molly:

Heard about it. I'm like, this is the thing. Like, I'm like, I'm signed up to the Boston Globe, but

Paul:

Mhmm.

Molly:

I don't hear anything much about anything going on. This Globe, and I was hoping, like, okay. Well, maybe maybe I need to do some I don't know what I'm saying.

Paul:

The Globe is cool. I love what Janae Osterhalt is doing Mhmm. With, you know, a beautiful resistance in in that whole kind of column and series of stories. There's a couple other writers at the Globe that I admire and I I think are really great. But they don't have their, like, finger or pulse on, like, the music scene.

Paul:

Like, they have, like, one music writer. They have a couple other freelancers who will like write articles, sometimes get published at the Globe, but they like, they're not covering everything

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

In in the scene in that regard. They will talk about like the Boston Music Awards and things like that, But, like, there's so much other stuff that's happening that, like, once you get tapped in with a few creatives in different disciplines

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Then it's like, oh, wait a minute. The world's kinda opening up.

Molly:

It's wild.

Paul:

Yeah. It's wild. There's you know, I think in the hip hop space, there's, like, certain artists you could follow, but that's a different world than what's happening with the DJs Mhmm. Than what's happening with, like, again, like, the dance community. That's also different than what's happening in, like, rock and roll or pop music.

Paul:

And I

Molly:

know there's a huge punk scene. There's ska music.

Paul:

Rare that they all kinda work together and collaborate in that way.

Molly:

Maybe I need to do a website.

Paul:

You know I need

Molly:

to stop signing myself up for things.

Paul:

No. No. No. No. No.

Paul:

But I

Molly:

think it would be cool.

Paul:

I think what you're doing now is an amazing thing because, again, you're amplifying stories and you're diving deep. And I just had this conversation with Pierre Moore and Ike Bana and a few other folks about the role of media and journalists Mhmm. In telling these stories, like, truthfully, accurately with care. Yeah. You know, there are so many people who just don't care about, you know, the the culture and are looking for the clickbait, and so then you don't get, you know, these like in-depth longer conversations that really have a lot of substance in them because people are looking for those, like, moments.

Molly:

Viral moments.

Paul:

Yeah. And I think it's great, but honestly, there's so much that can come out of, you know, conversations like these. You know, and then you'd be surprised about how people who you thought were connected, like, weren't, like, weren't connected, you know, in in that kind of way. And so, you know, whether we're talking about so one of my students, Sonya, you know, he won this big hip hop competition called Master of the Chamber. You know?

Molly:

That sounds cool.

Paul:

Yeah. It it's like the competition I am I'm in now except live. Yeah. You know? And so they have 64 artists over the course of eight dates.

Molly:

Where is that?

Paul:

Right. They did their last one in New York. Okay. So it's not Massachusetts No. No.

Molly:

Necessarily, but

Paul:

It is. Oh. They're they're Boston based, and their first couple of seasons or tournaments were primarily local places. Mhmm. But then they've started to travel a little bit where they'll do, a chamber event in Lawrence or a chamber event in Brockton.

Paul:

So this is their first chamber event in New York City. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And the idea is you get 64 artists. There's three rounds.

Paul:

Your first round, you get six minutes as an artist to do whatever you wanna do with it.

Molly:

It's a long time.

Paul:

It is. Maybe you get two songs off, maybe like two in a freestyle or something. Yeah. But you compete and a crowd decides if you win and move on to the next round. Second round, it's like broken down.

Paul:

You get three minutes, and your opponent gets three minutes. So it's like a battle, but it's you're not it's not like a battle rap situation. It's like you do your best song. Yeah. They respond to that by doing their best song.

Paul:

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so you do that twice, and in the final round, only get one song, one performance to, like, convince the crowd that you should be the winner that night.

Molly:

That's so cool. And it sounds like such a cinematic scene

Paul:

Oh, it's insane.

Molly:

That you can only experience in person. It

Paul:

is.

Molly:

And Yeah. And people should.

Paul:

The winner walks away with at least $500.

Molly:

Mhmm.

Paul:

And I say at least because people can put money in the pot Oh, cool. To raise the stakes. And so I've seen people walk away with, like, 1,100 by winning one of the, like, initial tournaments of eight. Yeah. Then the eight winners come together, and they compete in, a grandmaster chamber where

Molly:

I just love that title. It's so

Paul:

cool. And so then, like, the final eight compete in the same night, and then the winner of that tournament becomes the grandmaster of the chamber and walks away with $5,000. And so the first two winners and three out of the four finalists for the first two tournaments were all people who I worked with in class.

Molly:

That's awesome.

Paul:

Yeah. And they were super talented before, like, you know, we got in class together, but to see them and to know their work in a more intimate way Mhmm. I was, like, just a massive cheerleader for all of them, you know, when it was time for them to kinda compete and do their thing. But Sonya, who wins his contest, wins $5,000, goes to Japan, comes back reinspired, brand new music. Right?

Paul:

It puts out this incredible thing. And then I asked the DJs around town. I'm like, so have you heard? So have you heard? Are you aware?

Paul:

Did you know? And they did not know. And I'm just like

Molly:

Yeah.

Paul:

Come on. Like, one of the people who won this giant competition that everybody should know, that you all should be paying attention to, but y'all did not know as this thing came out. So you'd be surprised Yeah. You know, about the the connectivity. Sometimes, like, we'll take it for granted too that, oh, you should already.

Paul:

Yeah. But

Molly:

It's so hard too because Yeah.

Paul:

We can't assume.

Molly:

We're so forced into this algorithmic society Right. Where if you don't log in at the the right time Mhmm. Or you just haven't interacted with their content in a while Mhmm. You don't see their stuff. Mhmm.

Molly:

And, you know, it sucks.

Paul:

Yeah. Yeah. But that's my that's my superpower too Yeah. Is to be a connector. So, like, even after this, I'm gonna I'm gonna send you a bunch of pages.

Paul:

I'm gonna send you links Awesome. All stuff. I even prepared some stuff for Crazy Bars I've heard as a platform Uh-huh. To look at, like, artists in our region that they should potentially consider spotlighting. Yeah.

Paul:

And so I have a whole list of people who are, like, 25. I have another list of, like, veteran artists from our scene. So I'll I'll send you a bunch of stuff, and you probably know maybe most of these people, but there might be a few folks who, like, who don't honestly,

Molly:

like, doing some doze. Through this area. Is there something that you wanna leave people with Mhmm. Especially when it comes to trying to be hopeful or even motivated to be creative in our current timeline.

Paul:

Your creativity and your art is necessary now more than ever. Your ability to create is the source for transformation and for growth and for possibility. When we can radically reimagine our world and society and we have people who are willing to work towards that, then that that action and that will has so much power. And you may not feel it, but it ripples out and impacts other people. And so because you don't know whose inspiration you're holding on to, just create.

Paul:

Because somebody's watching, somebody's witnessing, and they're then moved to do something themselves. Yeah. And so that's that's what I'll leave people with is

Molly:

That's so important.

Paul:

Yeah. Just recognize how powerful it is, and you don't have to serve anybody's agenda. You don't have to make things that are outside of yourself, right, but just the simple act of I'm going to create for me because maybe it is healing, maybe it's therapy, maybe it's whatever it is, that simple act will inspire and ripple out to really transform other people's lives as well.

Molly:

I needed to hear that. So this was selfishly for me,

Paul:

but Yeah.

Molly:

Everyone else gets to hear it now too. Mhmm. Well, thank you so much for this awesome conversation. I'm sure this always happens after, but I know I'm gonna have, like, a thousand more questions.

Paul:

I'm with it. I'm with it. We're locked in now. Like

Molly:

I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Check the show notes on where to find Paul and all of his works, as well as the mentioned artists and organizations within the episode. Paul, thank you again so much for being a part of the show, and I look forward to seeing what you do in the future. And until next time, you guys, I'll see you later. Bye.