Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to "This is Health, Wealth, and the Pursuit of Happiness" your source for insightful discussions with economist and author, Dr. Murray Sabrin. Join us as we challenge convention, expand minds, and pursue truth.
Murray Sabrin (00:01.976)
Welcome to Health, Wealth, and the Pursuit of Happiness. I'm Murray Sabrin, B A A Ph D. There's No BS in my background, never has been, and never will be. On this podcast, we explore the ideas, people, and principles that shape healthier lives, greater prosperity, and human flourishing. In each episode, we'll challenge conventional wisdom on healthcare, economics, politics, and personal freedom so you can think independently, make better decisions, and pursue your happiness.
Thank you for joining us today on well, we're recording here on Wednesday, September 9th, two days before September 11th, the 25th anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. And joining us today is Dr. Joseph Sanson. he's he's coming back from being our first guest in April when we launched Health Wealth Health Wealth in the Pursuit of Happiness. And for those of you that don't know who Dr. Sanson is, let me give you a little bio information.
Dr. Sanson is a psychotherapist and hypnotherapist. He has a BA in psychology, an MS in clinical mental health counseling, and a PhD in psychology. He's a licensed mental health counselor as well as as well as a board-certified clinical mental health counselor. He's been trained in advanced clinical hypnosis at the Academy of Professional Hypnosis in 1997. So Joe has who I've known for many, many years. In fact, I think we met around 25 years ago.
in New Jersey when we attended a weekly pow wow of public officials and concerned citizens about what was happening in New Jersey. So welcome Dr. Sanson to Health, Wealth and Pursuit of Happiness.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (01:43.683)
I Professor Sabrin's always glad to be here. Thank you, sir.
Murray Sabrin (01:46.968)
Well, Joe has a book coming out on September 11th. It's called Psychopathic Authoritarianism. Here's the g book. we got a doubleheader here. And I've read the book thoroughly, page by page, to go over Joe's basic premise about what's been happening to America, what's been happening to the principles of that of the founding fathers. So, Joe, let me ask you start off.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (01:55.979)
Beaches.
Murray Sabrin (02:15.403)
Why'd you write the book and what are the basic concepts behind psychopathic authoritarianism?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (02:23.158)
the idea I guess originally, back in two thousand twelve when a young man was retiring from Congress, speaking about and when he was doing so in his farewell speech, was speaking about the immoral use of force through government. And he used the phrase psychopathic authoritarians, to describe that. And and that of course was Dr. Ron Paul
And so that idea kind of percolated for about a decade. I think in two thousand twenty-one yeah, I started writing again. I wrote an article on Lou Rockwell dot com and I think this is the first time I used a phrase in an article, psychopathic authoritarians. I think I had it in the title of the article, and then I started kind of using it as my tag in my articles. I started writing on my substack, which is Joseph Sanson dot com, in twenty twenty two. And I yeah, I like to say I'm a psychotherapy.
therapist opposed to psychopathic authoritarianism. And so that just kept kind of building in my mind and then finally I got down to writing the book, which what are we in? Twenty si s so I guess I wrote
the last f like the end of the summer for about four months I wrote heavy in twenty twenty five, then took a little break 'cause I won my appeal in my case, at the time. and then I jumped back into it maybe in like February a and finished it up and and over f you know a few months there. So I mean about a y I guess I've been about a year and a half on this project. But I what I look at is what psychologists call the dark tetrid of
Cedas
Dr. Joseph Sansone (04:02.708)
narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy, along with the fear and control as the driving factor to it, and I apply these traits towards society as a whole. And on a systemic level, I call it psychopathic authoritarianism. And I look at I don't just look at the characteristics of the leaders that are engaged in this. I I I'm looking at the leader follower dynamics. So let's say take the
trait of sadism. now
there are some people that don't have a sadistic bone in their body, but most of us do a and you know, it's in its benign form. For me it comes out of my sarcastic humor a lot. if you think of your favorite situational comedies, you're you're you're w you know, you're watching a character in like an embarrassing situation trying to squirm their way out of it and you're laughing about it. You're taking pleasure in their pain. But it's a benign form of it. But arguably sadism is like one of our worst human qualities, taking a pain and taking pleasure in the pain of other human beings.
And so I I look at sadism and I kind of made it a point to in the book, I show in a pretty brief amount of time, I show just how every culture is guilty of pretty much some really horrendous sadistic acts toward people. so nobody's innocent, no culture or religion, or anybody's innocent. And and I I when I'm looking at the sadism, I'm looking so when I'm looking at these characteristics, I look at also what are called like the everyday sadism or
to everyday narcissism because I I believe the the people that are orchestrating what's happened over the last several years for sure and even longer, I think they're exploiting the everyday latent qualities of these characteristics in individuals. So for instance, and I use the example often of like if you think of like my book's not about COVID, but I use the COVID area tyranny as kind of a recurrent case study. If you look at think of like the couple
Dr. Joseph Sansone (06:05.812)
walking at the park or on the beach without a face mask during COVID and then being chased by a mob of people. And so that sadistic quality in the people was brought forth. Now fear helps bring it forth. but
It's like it's a latent quality that needed that once it had an avenue of expression, it's like it had the excuse to to exp express itself. Think of like your typical action movie. Your typical action movie, you got a character who's like a good guy, they they he gets wronged either a family member, someone gets killed, and then all of a sudden he's got a green light to go on a killing spree and he'll kill like thirty people in the movie or something like that, and people are cheering it on and this and that. So it's like they're they're cheering on this kind of
sadistic behavior really. But and that's what happens. One of the recurring themes in my book is I talk about people seeing the state as an extension of their ego. And when they do that they lose their like they kind of lose their own humanity and they their their own respect for the humanity of other people. And in the process they're surrendering their liberty and and that that's expressed toward other people
in in various ways. I also look at the narcissism and the different types of narcissism. For instance, you've got like grandiose narcissism and malignant narcissism. Malignant narcissists have a very sadistic quality to them. They like to humiliate other people. a lot of the critics of Trump said, you know, say that he might have those tendencies. but I I in my book I make it a point to show all different political like you know gav from Gavin
Newsom to Trump, I show different examples of behaviors. But
Dr. Joseph Sansone (07:58.913)
Then you have the vulnerable narcissists, and they're kind of easier to manipulate because they need the attention but and the approval, but your collective narcissists, those are the people that need the group's superiority. They're the ones that get into the us first them. And in in in the COVID example, we saw that as they demonized people that didn't get the face masks or didn't you know didn't get the injections and so on. And and you know, that that's it's pretty dark, and they definitely see the state as an extension.
their ego when they get into that. And then you had your vulnerable narcissists. The vulnerable narcissists, they're the ones who get manipulated through the virtue signaling. They're the ones who are out there putting their encouraged to put their pictures on Facebook of getting wearing their mask or getting the injection, that kind of thing. So it's a pretty it's a pretty insidious process of manipulation. The Machiavellianism, people engage in that too. Probably though in the book, I think I give, I think the I mean we saw that with people like maybe say like
Like Gavin Newsom having strict lockdowns and going out to like cocktail parties and that kind of thing. But in the book, I think I use the example of the creation of the Federal Reserve as a perfect example of Machiavellianism. Yeah, you had the bankers in New Brunswick, New Jersey hop on a train, go down to Jekyll Island, Georgia, go down to Georgia and hop over to Jekyll Island, and they hatched the scheme of the Federal Reserve so they could get a monopoly over the money supply. And what they did is they had their paid members of Congress come out and propose the Federal Reserve Act.
While the bankers publicly came out against it. So I mean it was pure manipulation. And so the Machiavellian, it's like the amoral kind of strategic engine of it all. And then the psychopathy, I mean, the modern state is a psychopath, but with the psychopathy, I think you see, that gets into there's issues of gradation with that. I think they they get you to lose your humanity, so you lose empathy toward other other human beings. Like, you know, a psychopath doesn't have the ability to connect and
And have empathy toward other people, they have to mimic that connection. It's it's not real. And and so now the average person does have that ab ability to connect and be empathetic toward other people, but I think they they condition you to lose that. And I think that's what like a lot of these video games are about is to get you to to you know, train people to kill people without any concept of what they're doing. especially now that that's like a precursor toward operating a drone and you know killing someone on the other side.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (10:28.502)
Of the world doing that, and then you deal with the post-traumatic stress and the guilt years later. But so I look at how these these because these constructs are overlapping constructs, and then how they apply to the system as a whole. Now, what I call psychopathic authoritarianism, it while I'm dealing largely with governmental structures, I do point out that any organic academia or a private organization, any organization can fall.
Into that trap look, I've been in liberty-minded organizations when all of a sudden a someone becomes a chair of the group and they start acting like an authoritarian. Everybody's looking around like what just happened? And and so it is it's just a a quality that people possess. and then so that's part one of the book. Then part two of the book. So part one of the book, I define psychopathic authoritarianism. I even have a chapter in there for what I call psychopathic authoritarian disorder, and I create like a preliminary diagnostic criteria for that.
but then part two of the book I look at the sci social psychology co like studies for anything dealing from obedience to authority to social conformity to learned helplessness and how that is applied in society as a whole. Then part three of the book I look at globalism and then part four of the book I talk about the disease of the soul, which is so I'm looking at this as both a psychological dysfunction as well as a spiritual corruption.
Murray Sabrin (11:54.806)
Joe, this is a great overview of the book. As I'm reading the book, as I'm going through the book chapter by chapter, I'm saying some of this thing sounds s so familiar, things I read over the past half century since I was a graduate student, back in the 70s, and getting into political philosophy and economic history, political history. And I came across as I was preparing for today's podcast, I came across some of the material that I think
really integrates what you said from a psychological point of view with other people have been saying from a political economic point of view. And let me bring up some of the things and then you can comment on it. And in 1944 F.A. Hayek, who was one of Ludwig von Misi's students and and colleagues in Austria, wrote The Road to Serfdom, where he said, if we don't shape up, we are going to be in a situation not different than what we're trying to fight in World War II.
And he has one chapter called Why the Works Get on Top. And he starts off the chapter with a quote like you've done in your book. And he quotes Lord Acton: power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely. And I'm saying, isn't this exactly one part of the human condition? People like to rule over other people, and when they do so, corruption happens. And then I came across one of the founding fathers.
with a quote and I want to read it to you, Joe, because when I saw this quote, it's in my collection of quotes that I've gathered over the years. And when I s when I was reading your book, I said, This is exactly what this founding father and there's a quiz here, Joe. I want you to tell me who this founding father was with this quote.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (13:38.048)
Thomas Jefferson.
Murray Sabrin (13:40.088)
I didn't give you the quote yet. An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens. There has never been a moment of my life in which I should have r relinquished it for the enjoyments of my family, my farm, my friends, and my books.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (13:41.64)
I'm just guessing.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (14:03.296)
I I think I'm gonna hang on to Thomas Jefferson.
Murray Sabrin (14:05.835)
You get an A plus, Joe. That was a letter to T John Millish in January of 1813. That quote, I think, really summarizes in a way for me the the thesis of your book. Why do people want to have power over other people, especially in the public s in the public sector? Because isn't the whole premise that we just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence? Wasn't the whole premise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? And so if government officials have
power over us, we're undermining the principles of the Declaration of Independence. So what say you, Joe?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (14:43.622)
yeah, I I guess I'm coming out from a psychological perspective and there's there's a lot of I think there's a lot of work out of there coming from economics and political perspective, so it's it's a a different lens I guess to view it in, but y essentially it's a similar concept. here's the thing, the psychopathic authoritarians, they're terrified by the ambiguity of freedom.
It think of like your like like and look in certain situations we can all kind of fall into like control issues, that kind of thing. But think of like your worst control like freak. You know what I mean? Your the the that real control and put them in that the lens of government 'cause that's what government is. So it's like
They can't handle freedom because they can't control it. It's terrifying to them. The spontaneity of the creativity of the entrepreneur terrifies them. The the the the idea that you can just the idea they don't have the faith that all these little moving parts that we call human beings can live their lives and do it productively and fruitfully without their control because they're threatened by it. It's just it it's a very spiritually corrupt and emotionally
imbalanced perspective.
Murray Sabrin (15:58.456)
Let me ask you something. I I dug up from my from my study here a a wonderful little pamphlet, which is based upon a talk that economist and historian Tom DiLorenzo gave at the Mises Institute a couple of years ago. And it's entitled The Axis of Evil: America's Three Worst Presidents, and the Three Worst Presidents, according to DiLorenzo, Tom not Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson.
And FDR. What do they have in common? They all presided over American conflict. Obviously, Lincoln with the with the war between the states. Wilson, who ran as a peace candidate in 1916, and FDR, who ran a as a peace candidate in 19 in 1940. And then we can add in LBJ, who ran as a peace candidate in 1964, which I vividly remember as as a first-year college student, and then more recently, two years ago.
Donald Trump ran as a peace candidate saying no more wars, no more endless wars. And so what do you say about that? Is this an example of psychopathic authoritarianism or ma or primarily Machiavellianism?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (17:07.53)
Maybe a little both. I think the
The system itself becomes like the psychopathic authoritarianism applies to the system. Whether the individuals at play there were psychopathic authoritarians might depend on perspective, you know, 'cause some people think Lincoln's great. But I mean what what what's in common between Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR is the lack of respect for the constitution. Now Lincoln, as you know, literally had yeah, put gun point you know, gunpoint to legislatures and stuff like that that get them to vote they wouldn't.
wanted, that kind of thing. so that was I mean the war I mean a lot of people I think it was six hundred and twenty eight thousand people or something like that died in in the war between the states, so that was a pretty horrific
Murray Sabrin (17:51.969)
Well n now the new estimate is over eight hundred thousand, Joe.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (17:55.349)
Wow. Okay, wow. and so that's a lot of people. and and I s you know, war is you know, war is horrific. It's not it's not like they make it out to be, especially modern warfare, I think is there's not really much honor in modern warfare. but it's not like people are going into hand to hand combat and the best one wins. You know, my theory on it is that the heads of states and their legislatures should go fight the heads of state and the legislature of the other country.
Murray Sabrin (17:57.356)
Yes.
Murray Sabrin (18:24.076)
Yeah.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (18:25.272)
You cut a deal beforehand, and then whoever wins or loses pays tribute for a while and then whatever. Leave us out of your your stupid wars. Because the wars really aren't normally in our interest. The Civil War was a bit convoluted too. FDR, I think, would I would say in some ways FDR might be the worst of the three of them. Not necessarily for the war. Now, again, he might have done things to encourage the war, but you know, reality is you know, Japan attacked the United States and Germany declared.
war in the United States, so either way you're going to war at that point. Now whether like Pearl Harbor was like they let it happen or something, like some people suggest, I don't know. But I think that the thing about FDR is his total abandon for the Constitution, like c confiscating people's gold and things like that. I I think in many ways he was a horrific president. and by I know I know they paint these pictures of these people
i like as if they're like some great pres I guess when you throw the word great in front in front of somebody like like as if they're great at something you need to step back and say what are they actually great at? because a lot of people that they they put it out in that way have harmed a lot of people.
I don't like to paint with a brush like this person's evil, this person's good, 'cause most people are are a little bit of both. But I think if you look at the characteristics that I o outline in the book, of you know, the qualities that would make psychopathic authoritarian disorder, I think you're gonna find that many politicians and government officials would fall within that diagnostic criteria that I create.
Murray Sabrin (20:07.457)
the other point I want to bring up is having observed politicians' public policy for so many years, and the thing that strikes me is either they're completely ignorant about economics and finance, or as you point out, they're Machiavellian. I don't think they're sadistic, I don't think they want to hurt people, but their policies hurt people, tariffs, taxes.
regulations. They really hurt people. The the the income tax, there's evidence that people committed suicide because they got some negative ruling from the IRS and their business was destroyed. So there are negative consequences for a lot of these public policies and there there's really no repercussions for the people who implement these policies. So we as private citizens can't do what politicians do. And that's one way I think of looking at public policy.
Can a private can government do what a private citizen can't do? It would be illegal for a private citizen to do, namely take your money without your permission, call it taxes. We people can't steal because it's illegal and also immoral, but the government can do that. We can't be serial killers. We can't kill anybody just on a whim, or we think there they may be a threat, some loose combination of a threat, but yet governments go to war because of some perceived threat out there, like
George Bush's invasion of Iraq in nine in 2003, or right now, President Trump's invasion, not invasion, but attack on Iran. So the so the question is, what are the dynamics? We only see the the public manifestation of their policies, but what do you think is happening behind the scenes that gives rise to these to these policies?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (22:00.629)
I think there is a high degree of sadism, n maybe not always from the politicians but from the people behind the scenes that tell them what to do. I I I don't think that our I don't think the people that are put in office are are just making their own decisions. I think they're told what to do at this point. And I even question the authenticity of computer voting because I trust that as about as much as you would c trust computer poker or gambling like that they wanna cheat. why would I you know, why would I not suspect
you cheating if we're playing computer poker online. But I think there I think there is a high degree of sadism. definitely from some of the politicians too, but definitely from people. Look, during COVID, we saw a lot of say sadistic behavior coming from government. Now whether the people playing at the parts were being driven by sadism at first, I don't know, but they certainly engaged in it. They were sadistic on how they humiliated people, making them wear face masks, follow little lines on the floor.
keeping in mind that there's no scientific backend for any of this. you know, and forcing them to get the the bioweapon injections and and now a lot of people are getting sick and dying from that. I mean that's sadistic. But for your run-of-the-mill politicians, it may be driven more by the narcissism. Because like if I said to you, Dr. Sabrin, if if
You had the choice of throwing away your career or saving ten thousand people's lives, you would probably say, I'll save the ten thousand people's lives. Now imagine millions of people's lives. And we saw this during COVID. Not one not one governor stood up and said no to the federal government, whether it was under Trump or Bush. Not one of them not one of them said no, we're not gonna let you poison our people. Not one of them said no, we're gonna honor the Constitution of the United States. We're not gonna we're not gonna play this game. There's no governmental there's no authority for any of this. And you you know you
Dr. Joseph Sansone (23:53.083)
talk about our founding fathers and I can tell you I can tell you one president that was not a psychopathic authoritarian he's not the only one obviously George Washington was a great man by all all standards but James Madison the father of the Constitution he as president of the United States during the war of eighteen twelve the British burned down the White House Dolly Madison rescued that iconic photo of an elderly George Washington which George Washington didn't really like because
But
you know, after you know, the guy's wife is leaving the White House as it's burning to the ground and James Madison as president of the United States did not usurp the people's liberties. He did not violate the Bill of Rights. He didn't he did not create an emergency power to to to take away people's rights. Now Andrew Jackson did in Louisiana, but you know, Madison will learn about that later, weeks later. so
That's how y you know, you're supposed to behave. You have faith in the in the rule of law. But we've got politicians that I think they are being instructed what to do and they they they come up with these emergency powers. there's definitely Machiavellianism there 'cause they're getting rich in the process. So they're getting the attention, the accolades and they're getting bribed, and blackmailed. but
So I think all of the four of those dark tetra traits are at s at work to varying degrees with different people, but the narcissism is definitely there 'cause honestly these politicians don't care about anybody but themselves. They don't they don't look at us like like civilians.
Murray Sabrin (25:32.033)
Now, how d how does this play out in the non governmental sector? You mentioned academia, you mentioned business. Give us some examples of how this psychopathic authoritarianism would manifest itself in non governmental institutions.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (25:46.397)
Academia I think is a a a real good example, because anybody who's
maybe gone to a university within the last twenty five or thirty years, might have went into it thinking that it's about ideas and discussion and debate and so on. And it's not. Academia is about it's you know the word to educate as you know means to draw forth in Latin, to bring out what's in within you. But academia to a large degree is about inculcating people, indoctrinating them into a set of belief systems. and sometimes it's driven by the credentialing agencies. So if you need to get a
medical degree or get a degree to be a therapist, there's different credential agencies. So in order to be licensed in the state, it has to be the program has to be accredited by a certain agency. for instance, K Crep is a big one for mental health counselors. You know, you have the AMA, different things. So you go through an accredited program, then you can get licensure. But then the programs require certain coursework to be taught there. Look, when I went back to school in my undergraduate programs at FTCU, I had to take a
class called civic engagement that everybody had to take and it was training people to be left wing activists. And I remembered a book, I think it was called Soul of the Citizen or some nonsense like that. And the book was literally dedicated to Lucifer. And so like
The idea of open and free debate in academia for a large part has been stifled in most y most universities. and so you have a lot of I think spiritually sick people that are caught totally in their status, a and they they
Dr. Joseph Sansone (27:26.154)
They just I think that's an I think academia is a clear example. And and I argue that what's happening underneath all this is that the the underlying field of probability is becoming too structurally sound. It's like too too good and and that's where the rigidness comes from. And that's why usually there's a process of bifurcation, like a new field of probability emerges. Like and so like thousands of years ago, if we were facing some type of authoritarian system, you and I would get together and say, you know what, let's go sail over there and start a new city.
state and try freedom over there. But you know, we've lost that opportunity because of the technocracy and the technology. It just w we're stuck. We're gonna have to work our way through this. There's nowhere to go. But I think any organization could become too rigid like that.
Murray Sabrin (28:10.327)
So let me ask you what I think is the sixty four thousand dollar question. How do we get out of this? How do we get a away from this psychopathic authoritarianism? Is it voting? Is it a change in the culture, which is not easy to do, as we all know? So what what's the Samsung solution to to elimin reduce, if not eliminate, psychopathic authoritarianism in our society?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (28:32.244)
Well, I think that one you have to spot the field, recognize that when you are in a like for instance, if you are in a situation where it has the signs of the authoritarian system, which obviously when we're talking about our government, w that's obviously present today, you have to fight back.
Federalist Paper number forty, James Madison very clearly states well he's paraphrasing the Declaration of Independence, but he very clearly states that the right to revolution is transcendent. that that's your that's your God given right when a government no longer serves the ends you know, toward the liberty of the individual. now there's so many levels of escalation that are
need to be done before anything becomes kinetic. But I think that that threat needs to be real. Like in other words, we fear our government. The government doesn't fear us and that is very unhealthy. It needs to be the other way around. It needs to be where the government fears the people. This way the government is tepid on how it implements policy and so that it's not stepping on your toes. You know, for instance, when they were doing like say mask mandates and stuff like that, the the t the city council people that were doing that and every all across the country
country they should have really been afraid to do that. They weren't.
and that's because we we're in an improper relationship between individuals and the government. Now, outside of that though, I think that creativity is really important. I think that so the the psychopathic authoritarians lack creativity, they lack empathy, they lack love. And I think that creativity is really important to be able to to create new fields of probability, creating parallel systems and alternative systems are important. I I always say like asymmetrical warfare requires asymmetrical.
Murray Sabrin (30:15.735)
Yeah.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (30:17.144)
actual resistance and I think that I think that cooperating with like minded people is really important. We have to use our creativity to fight back. Because I don't know I don't know if we really have recourse through the electoral process right now. I can't I can't in any way verify that computer voting is real.
And nobody can. And that's just the that's really like the elephant in the room. And so if you take away our ability and the danger here is if you take away our ability to have recourse, then then what happens is then eventually it bubbles up and all of a sudden you got a situation like the French Revolution. I don't even mean the left wing economics of I just mean you've got like a real dangerous situation that happens when true revolution occurs. So I'd much rather we see an intellectual revolution and the ideas of liberty and freedom.
freedom and human dignity rule. But the future's uncertain 'cause I don't think we can continue along this path because as I argue in the book is we've got these people pushing this kind of globalist technocracy that want to, you know, enslave us, or, you know, kill kill us.
Murray Sabrin (31:28.241)
This is this is, I think, the the prescient view of Hayek's Road to Serfdom. Also, Mises' 1951 talk, which turned into an essay published by the Mises Institute, The Middle of the Road Policy Leads to Socialism. And then you have Robert Higgs, who wrote a probably one of the most important books in the last 40 years called Crisis in Leviathan, where he shows every time there's a quote crisis, usually caused by government, government expands its power.
And it rarely recedes. And we've seen this ratcheting up effect for the past hundred years since the Federal Reserve was created, as you pointed out, and the income tax in 1913, where the the American people are basically at at the mercy of the federal government. We have to use their paper dollars or their their fiat dollars, if you will, because it's most of it is digitized now. And we have this income tax which has become a real bane on the US economy.
Dr. Joseph Sansone (32:22.006)
Mm-hmm.
Murray Sabrin (32:27.009)
But the f the good news from my perspective of t having taught in the business school and following business for so many decades, is there's an incredible ingenuity among the American people. And you see this all over the place. there's a new book published, it was profiled in the Wall Street Journal last weekend, pointing out how many millionaires have been created in the United States because people had an idea, opened up a business, and became hugely successful over twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years.
And so I don't have I'm not that pessimistic from the economic point of view. What I'm concerned about, and I and I and I think you'll concur, is the government is out of control with the debt, the endless wars, and and the the the regulations sometimes can be really painful to small business owners, and therefore they're the ones that are taking the brunt of this aut authoritarianism. So any final words of hope and and encouragement, Joe?
Dr. Joseph Sansone (33:25.034)
Yeah, I I think that human beings are very resilient. I think that if both our health is more resilient than you think as well. We can be exposed to a lot of things and recover. but even psychologically and politically I think that w there's always a path forward. The thing is is to not fall into the illusions. th the people that are running everything exist on the illusion of power.
a and th we hold all the power. They they they th you know, the illusion like the biggest lie that we're ever told is that the pen is mightier than the sword. No, the pen is mightier than the sword because it's backed up by the sword. A and and we really hold the sword because there's a lot more of us than there are of them. And I think that I think that ultimately
we're gonna win i in what's moving forward, but you know, it might be turbulent until that happens because the thing is is I don't know that you can really stamp out freedom any more than you can blot the sun out of the sky. Eventually the clouds move away and the sun's still there.
Murray Sabrin (34:28.016)
Joe, I wish I were in in light but the a thunderstorm has just come through and knocked out the power here. unf
Dr. Joseph Sansone (34:33.162)
Murray, I assure you behind those clouds, the the sun is there. It it's there. Liberty is there.
Murray Sabrin (34:37.045)
there's no question about absolutely. So I want to thank Joe for coming on and his book is available on Amazon. and it's available in hardcover, paperback and Kindle edition. The official publication date is September eleventh, the twenty-fifth anniversary of the horrific attacks in America. Joe, I want to thank you for your inspiration, your insight, and your your guidance about how
How to create a more prosperous and and peaceful world. And so thank you. So thank you for listening and watching Health, Wealth, and Pursuit of Happiness. I'm Mauri Sabrin. Until next time, keep questioning conventional wisdom, keep pursuing truth, and keep striving for a healthier, freer, and more prosperous life. And please visit mafiausa.com so we can create a financially independent America. See you next week.